All I can say is... at least we know what the 'wedge' issue is going to be heading into the November elections...

Predictable & Pathetic at best!

So we can now stop celebrating Columbus Day and put aside any notion that the Vikings discovered American before Columbus. The obvious answer to who discovered America was the people who were here before Columbus arrived. It took 518 years before we knew the truth.

"Cuccinelli doesn't sound like a native American name, do you suppose his relatives, were *gasp* Italian immigrants?"

If he has a legal I.D. he would be left to go about his business, if he doesn't the authorities should have the right to determine whether he is supposed to be here, and if he isn't he should be sent back to whence he came.

Amy..."I wonder how he would feel to be thus targeted?" Probably like my brother and I felt when we were stopped by 5 Hispanic Border Patrol agents with weapons drawn while we exploring for Indian artifacts about 60 miles from the Mexican border. We had no issue whatsoever with complying with the Sargent when he demanded proof of citizenship. He told us he was disappointed because he thought he was going to catch his first Russians.

Guess we were profiled for being WHITE!!!

Amy B. Portland, ME

Cuccinelli doesn't sound like a native American name, do you suppose his relatives, were *gasp* Italian immigrants?

Yeah, probably. His parents/grandparents probably came over to America, they went through the immigration process to become citizens, they followed the rules, followed the laws, and were probably impatient with the slowness of government process for them becoming citizens. But rather then protesting in the streets, shouting into a mega-phone, telling America how much it sucks, and expecting something for nothing, they instead became legal and productive citizens.

So what exactly is your point Amy? And seeing you are in a laughing mood, wouldn't it be funny if an illegal took your job?

Well, lets hope that Atty. Gen Cuchinelli has his papers in order. With the GOPers wanting to have AZ style laws in all states, then the Atty. General will need to get used to having to produce them when he is stopped on traffic violations.

Lord help him if he left his wallet at home that day.

Mexicans are fleeing Arizona, but it might not be for the reasons that you think.

Read this article to learn what they say are the real reasons they are leaving.

FUNNY

http://www.dailygoat.com/?p=2222

Amy,

You are aware that some people in the past came here legally, right? People came over on boats and were properly documented in most cases. Sure, some people probably snuck in, but that will happen in the beginning of a country. It shouldn't be happening now.

Why do you assume that Cuccinelli's ancestors came here illegally?

And as for the liberal mantra of blaming the employers who hire illegals rather than blaming the illegals directly, the logic is backwards. Yes, the employers are in the wrong and a lure exists. But, the illegal has broken the law by coming into the country in the first place. Why aren't the liberals blaming Mexico for being such a screwed up, corrupt country with no available jobs? Nah, let's blame the US companies and give the illegals a pass. Then we'll give them citizenship and they'll be voting Democrats for life!

Wedge issue? Fur-shure Feisty! Lets see, the Conservatives are for enforcing the immigration laws. The Liberals are against enforcing the immigration laws. Gee, I wonder which way the voters will vote on that?

And here's your wedgie Feisty! Enjoy.

Isn't it cute, Feisty, how poor Joanna can only respond like a 12 year old when she is challenged by facts? Any objective observer would know that the Conservatives have no liking for dealing with the border either. Or they would have when they were in power the last 8 years. It's that cheap labor thing. The Conservatives simply HATE having to pay folks a living wage. And poor Joanna forgets that Reagan dealt with it by giving amnesty.

What's really amusing is... poor JoAnna's a@@ is still stinging from the spanking Nash gave to her this morning... my guess is she won't be able to 'sit' for a couple days...

Selfish redhead couldn't get out of the First Thoughts thread fast enough and now she's over her spitting her venom!

Not to worry it will be 5:00 soon and then she'll be gone... like the rest of the paid trolls... lol

Working 9 - 5 what a way to make a livin... You can just hear Dolly Parton now can't ya? ;0)

newwdayDAWNING10

Isn't it cute, Feisty, how poor Joanna can only respond like a 12 year old when she is challenged by facts?

Well, it looks like I've got down to your level Dawn. Looks like I've got to go back another 6 years to get to Feisty's level though. Maybe you can explain to her what a dolt she is. Use hand-puppets to keep her attention.

See, Feisty, there she goes again!

"And as for the liberal mantra of blaming the employers who hire illegals rather than blaming the illegals directly, the logic is backwards. Yes, the employers are in the wrong and a lure exists."

That is by far the DUMBEST thing I have read on this site and that is some stiff competition Lynchmob

It's the illegal immigrants fault these companies advertise in Mexico for jobs in the U.S.. These are the same companies who hire them and when they don't need them any more call INS to have them deported without paying them their wages.

Do you ever rely on facts obtained from research? or are you like Joanna and just offer up delusions or regurgitated talking points based in prejudices / racism?

"Well, it looks like I've got down to your level Dawn. Looks like I've got to go back another 6 years to get to Feisty's level though. Maybe you can explain to her what a dolt she is. Use hand-puppets to keep her attention."

Awesome comeback Joanna! Also, Kudos with the paper route comment too! J/K

You're still stupid! Doodie head! <----my attempt to communicate on your level.

So Dawn, there you go again. Just can't keep your big mouth shut, can you? Listen sweetie, you seem to have maybe an ounce of brains, far out pacing your good friend Feisty, but yet you that's all you do is come up with these stupid little remarks. I've yet to see you say something important, so rather then run around with the mentally handicapped one (Feisty), why don't you make a stand on your own and actually say something intelligent?

Anyone just notice how quickly JoAnna was willing to go into the 'Mentally Handicapped as an inferior being' schtick? I wonder if Sarah P. knows how compassionate JoAnna reallly is? If it's not okay for President Obama to 'joke' about the mentally handicapped, she really shouldn't go their either. But I am CERTAIN she will not see the forest for the stick in her own eye.

Talk about devolved!

Clara, same challenge to you as with Dawn. Dawn came through (below), maybe you can too. Surprise us all, you can do it Clara!

Unfortunately, I have no hope for the Feisty "Wedgie" Wethead.

Man, Clara, it just gets easier, hmmmmm?

NewDay:

I have come to think of poor JoAnna as First Read's very own large MOUTH a@@!

She takes the bait EVERY time and runs with it... you got to admit ND it is fun reeling her back in and then watching her FLOP around! lol

It's no wonder she's fond of the little minnow Joe, Albany

Between dating herself with the 'likes' of 'malt shop' and 'wedgie; I'm surprised the old broads not sucking off the socialist security by now...

Still laughing, Feisty. Spent the day in the barn, so have missed most of the fun here at First Read.

Well why don't we do what their Republican GOD did - you know don't you remember President Reagan?? Amnesty for all! Thank you President Reagan. So how come they aren't talking about their GOD during all of this immigration talk?? Someone on these posts always end up bringing up President Reagan. What happen here? Could he have been wrong?? And if wrong on that point, well what about his whole 8 years?

Frankly no one really has an answer for immigration. And no one here has an answer too - posters and media. Just a lot of sniping at each other but no solutions.

Good to see you NDD!

If you get a chance go to first thoughts & read the smack down Nash gave the old broad! I'm still lmao!

I'll go there now! Thanks, Feisty.

Way to go, Dan! You successfully used a liberal tactic by leaving off the most important part of my post: the FACT that the person entered the country illegally. Then you called my post dumb, which successfully distracts from the FACT that the person entered the country illegally. Then you blamed the US companies instead of the millions of people who enter the country illegally.

Were they ILLEGAL Italian immigrants?

Then you used the race card. Man, you've got this liberal thing down pat!!!

Are you not able to comprehend the difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration? Obviously not. Using your logic, we should allow smuggled liquor, cigarettes, and any other commodity including people. In fact, lets just throw our laws out the window and return to a liassez faire, social Darwinism. I'm for it if it means I can protect my own part of the country without the feds interfering. Your position is completely morally inconsistent, but I'm sure it assuages your conscience that you're a nice person. Your not. You're just weak and your views, taken to conclusion (as the feds are trying to do), will change our 'Nation' to simply a geographic area meaning nothing except high taxes, high crime, and bad public service.

Robodoc

As long as he is legal to be here all is well. I can't understand Americans that stand for people that have crossed our borders with complete disregard for our laws. They are a terrible burden on our welfare, schools, and health systems. We continue to hear about bleeding heart liberals that will send us down as a nation trying to support everyone that crosses the borders illegally.

Hey rightwingers, why does big brother have to step in with all my tax dollars to stop these illegals? And if you are thinking they are using more services that they are paying in taxes, how are they using the services without ID? If the ID is illegal, then they would be arrested anyway, without the new law. Why don't we just let the free markets take care of the immigrants instead of big government?

Why is it too much to ask for someone to carry identification? Try going to a foreign country....you are required to carry your passport with you.

If you are here illegally, you are committing a crime, yet the DOJ doesn't feel that law enforcement officials have the right to investigate a crime??? That's their job!

Amnesty/Path to Citizenship is a bunch of garbage. Deport them. If they wish to apply to become citizens, they may do so legally from their home country. If I went to Australia without a visa I would be sent back to the US immediately. I wouldn't be allowed to stay and wait to see if my application went through. There isn't a question here other than the intent of this Administration.

Amy B:

I would suspect that the AG's family came to this country the legal way. I don't know anyone who is against immigration; it's the illegal part that most have a problem with. And if you read the entire opinion, you would see that he has formulated no new law. He has simply clarified the current law as it regards criminal behavior. I support Cuccinelli just as I supported Arizona. When the border patrol only apprehends 1 for every 3 illegals crossing each year, do you think that we are secure? If a Mexican National can cross at the southern border, what's to stop a terrorist? If our border isn't secure, are we truly a sovereign nation? If the president of the US states that he thinks it is impossible to secure the border, should he remain in office?

FYI people,

Not all illegals are from Mexico! And those so called jobs all of you are worried about them taking are crappy underpaid exploited positions. So unless they are taking your college degree required jobs, give it a break! Stop with all the hate between races because no one person has a right to say who this country belongs to in the first place if you know your history.

Wow, JoAnna starts out with the Repub 'God's' famous line: There you go again....How original.

A lot of this discussion about illegals seems to center around Mexican illegals, and the funny thing is that MOST Mexicans are actually Native Americans who have been migrating back and forth from what is now Mexico to what is now the US for millenia. When farming or hunting in an area would fail people would move to a better area, this has gone on for thousands of years as seen by various archaeological data. So why would one assume that them moving here now is any different if their peoples have been doing such for so long. Yes, most of these people have been Hispanicized but there are still many of them, if not most, who come from predominantly Native backgrounds.

On top of that, the US has ALWAYS welcomed newcomers and even though Europeans come through Ellis Island later in the history of immigration, there are more ports than that and people came here pretty much unrestricted until such facilities were built and laws made for them to actually receive papers, which was just a way to control the influx from the European waves from a devastated Europe. There have been immigrants coming from Mexico this whole time and it has only been in the past century that they have been required to have papers, and mostly since the last half of the century that immigration has been really limited.

The present angst about illegals is only being whipped up by the right as a wedge issue to try to take the attention away from the Repub's intransigence in the Legislature with their voting NO on everything that could help us get out of our economic hole and President Obama's many achievements in his 20 months in office. The Repubs are hoping that we get so into the illegal issue that the others fall by the wayside so that they have a better chance of picking up seats in November. However, they forget that most Americans today can multitask and WILL remember how badly the Repubs want the economy to fail so that they can rail against it and we also remember how much Pres. Obama has managed to get done even with the Repubs voting NO all the time.

This is more about Those Too Rich To Fail trying to control the election in November than immigration.

Sasha- I agree with giving up the hate. I am for the law simply because I don't believe that illegal immigrants should get the same rights and privileges as naturalized immigrants or born citizens. We often forget that we have the RIGHT to speak out.

Scum illegals are not immigrants, they are criminals.

Not every American has a college degree. I have out of work friends who would gladly take those "crappy underpaid exploited" positions. Furthermore, my grandfather fought and died under the Red, White, and Blue in WWII and his father fought and died under that same flag in WWI. If yours did as well then we can talk about who this country belongs to. The United States of America belongs to its legal citizens. Race has nothing to do with it. The number of people who insist on making this a racial issue is in steady decline as more and more people wake up to see the whole "race argument" as the red herring it really is.

Lynchmob

And as for the liberal mantra of blaming the employers who hire illegals rather than blaming the illegals directly, the logic is backwards. Yes, the employers are in the wrong and a lure exists. But, the illegal has broken the law by coming into the country in the first place.

You've got it backwards. Why would they come if they couldn't find jobs? Yes they are to blame for coming but the people who employ them are worse. THEY are the primary REASON illegal immigrants keep coming.

Take away the reason and it stops.

And yes it is predictable. The GOP has no ideas to run on, or can't say what they are because they are afraid they'll be asked questions about it so they rely on the ol' reliable. How many times does this make they have tried to use illegal immigration as their platform?

I think this is the 3rd time. Who knows... maybe the third time is the charm... unless of course they can ever explain how we would pay for those Bush tax cuts they love so much.

What always amazes me is the "wait until an illegal takes your job" statement. If you have not, in the course of your life, developed a skill set that cannot be replicated by an illegal immigrant who is likely unskilled and may not speak English you have nobody to blame but yourself.

The ugly xenophobia card has been played throughout history. Of course people need to enter the country legally. Some don't. It is an easy target to demonize "them" to make "us" feel safer, better, superior. It is really a shame that people still feel a need to attack another group to make up for their own inadequacies.

Can anyone tell me if they lost their job because of an illegal immigrant? I mean if all they did was funnel drugs across the border(Jan Brewer says this), they wouldn't be able to steal your job. If Jan Brewer is incorrect, and they do have jobs, it is probably low paying jobs like farming. Unless you are a farmer, you probably don't have competition from an illegal immigrant.

He would probably feel that the police are doing their job, and he would cooperate, have a good laugh, and smile while driving home.

Pro illegal immigration people may have compassion in mind, but what they don't realize is the DAMAGE TO MEXICO our irresponsible immigration policies are doing. No one with half a brain is going to stay in Mexico to fix it's problems if it is easy to come to America. New businesses aren't created and educated bright people don't want to stay.

like everyone else who doesn't have any identification on him. I don't care who ask me, I carry identification at all times, no big deal if you have nothing to hide

If he's here legally, I don't think he will care. It makes common sense to ask if someone is legal or not. I have been all over the world and anytime I have been asked to provide ID, I do. Now I entered those countries legally so things are a little different.

If you want to rent a hotel room in most countries you must provide your passport to the clerk at the front desk.

Hey rightwingers, why does big brother have to step in with all my tax dollars to stop these illegals?

Well Brent, that's because the federal government has the power to enforce immigration. Arizona tried to get the power itself but the libs challenged it saying only the federal government can enact immigration policy. So which way do you want it? Do you want the states to take care of it on their own or do you want to continue to pay for the feds to do nothing and not enforce it adequately?

Pietro, Columbus, Ohio
Well, lets hope that Atty. Gen Cuchinelli has his papers in order. With the GOPers wanting to have AZ style laws in all states, then the Atty. General will need to get used to having to produce them when he is stopped on traffic violations.

Lord help him if he left his wallet at home that day.

Pietro, I was under the assumption that if you get pulled over for a traffic violation you're required to provide a driver's license regardless of your race. Technically anyone in the country is required to provide identification when they get stopped for a traffic violation and it's illegal to operate a vehicle without a driver's license. So basically if he left his wallet at home, he shouldn't be driving in the first place.

Amy you sound as bright as a 2watt bulb,Maybe its all that koolaid you have drinking?

Sounds like a redneck GOP WOP to me!!!

Think this guy might have larger political ambitions within the RADICAL GOP MOVEMENT?

Both healthcare and immigration reform make sense, this guy like most Republicans do not give a damn about their State and Country.

We need a Party that stands for fiscal conservative values, there is no place in government for Social Conservatives that fuel the fires of hate. Today's GOP has nothing to do with fiscal conservative thinking, they are Social Conservatives, OR America's Taliban.

Sounds like a redneck, white trash, GOP WOP to me!

I am into genealogy and can document that my ancestors have been in this country since the 1600's. It wouldn't bother me one whit to be asked for documentation of my citizenship. I was issued a traffic ticket recently and when the officer approached my window (in Alabama) one of his first questions was "where were you born?" I could have jumped for joy! I am fair-skinned, blond, blue eyes. There is no racial profiling here - unless he was on the look-out for a middle-aged Nordic looking woman.

Dubya, it is interesting that you should mention this. There are fewer people crossing our Southern border now than there has been in decades. There is more law enfocement on our Southern border than since the war with Mexico in the 1840s and because there are fewer jobs in the US period, we find less of a lure to bring people here.

I, too wonder why all of a sudden people are sooooo interested in this issue. The Republicans had control of Congress for 8 years and the Presidency for 6 of those 8 years yet they failed to take up the issue let alone solve it. Ronald Reagan, the god of the Conservatives, gave amnesty to millions of illegals signaling that it is okay to come here illegally as you will eventually be pardoned if caught. So now with a Democratic controlled Congress and a Democrat in the White House the conservatives are now ready to take action.

Perhaps there have been arrests of illegals in greater numbers than ever before so your desire to spend more on that is probably working. The point you make about arresting the employers of illegals is one that probably hasn't been done yet and should.

As for a "big legal pissing match" , to use your words, I agree. Neither party has done enough to solve the problem of illegal immigration. Wholesale deportation is going to be more costly than anything else so we need to take things on a case-by-case basis, go after the employers who hire them (more birds per stone), but do so humanely. They should be made to pay a fine because they broke a law but remember they aren't felons but people just trying to eke out a living for their families. A path to citizenship can be offered if a member of the family (immediate not extended) joins our military or in some way performs public service. They should be given time to pay off their fine and if they don't pay they are deported. Above all American citizens who happen to look like "them" should not be harrassed and constantly asked for papers. That smacks of Nazi Germany, or Communist countries.

When you say "fewer" people (illegal aliens) [are] crossing our Southern border now. Does that mean instead of 30,000 a week, it is now 29,000 a week.

You don't have to be a genius to figure out why you would want the illegal alien envision problem to not be in the spot light. It's that light that allows everyone to see the problem. Taking pain medication to hide the pain, does not mean the problem is gone.

No, we choke off the support for illegal aliens and they will leave like rats from a sinking ship all on their own.

Another thing, you never heard of the Jews sneaking into Nazi Germany to get jobs, and have anchor babies. Ever wonder why?

If the person being arrested doesn't have proper identification with them they are breaking the law if they are driving.

It is not against the law to drive without a valid ID. It is against the law to drive without a valid drivers license. You can be ticketed for driving without a driver’s license in your possession, but the charges will be dismissed in court if you provide proof of a valid drivers license. Of course some states may be different.

Kind of a disingenuous argument, since the "proper identification" in this instance would be a valid drivers licence, and if you are caught driving without one you can be detained by the officer if the officer deems necessary. Look no matter how you want to frame it if the officer wants to ask about your legal status he should be allowed to, if you are a legal citizen you have nothing to worry about, if you are here illegally you should be deported.

Amy B. Portland, ME

Cuccinelli doesn't sound like a native American name, do you suppose his relatives, were *gasp* Italian immigrants? Wouldn't it be funny if Mr. Cuccinelli got pulled over and asked about his immigration status during a routine stop? I wonder how he would feel to be thus targeted?

Probably wronged.

That happened here in Chicago. A Puerto Rican was jailed because the police thought he was illegal. He stayed in jail 3 days despite his mother bringing his papers. Rep Luis Guiterezz had to come to his defense. This is an example of racial profiling.

< Snippett>

"Instead of being released, he was told by authorities that Immigration and Customs Enforcement was detaining him because he was an illegal immigrant.

"That's crazy. Because I was born in Puerto Rico. I never knew that Puerto Rico wasn't part of the United States," the 32-year-old said Monday."

Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/eduardo-caraballo-puerto-rico-deportion-94795779.html#ixzz0vZYkS6qq

Two factors are salient:

*The police were dumb and ill equiped since they didn't know Pueto Ricans are American citizens.

*If you multiply that one case by the number legal Hispanics in AZ there will be lots of unnecassary law suits.

Republican and Blue Dog Congresspeople need to find the guts to support Comprhensive Immigration like they did with their St. Raygun.

So W bush you would have no problem with being detain just because you left your drivers license at home?

The argument for me is that to implement such a law as in Arizona, then you have to check people randomly without any regard to race religion or ethical background. Like at the Airport when they made my 78-year-old mother go through extensive security screening, because she was the next person through the checkpoint. It was a random selection, because without random screening, then there would be racial profiling. I am not ready to be pulled over for a random immigration check and forced to carry a birth certificate or other papers to prove I was born, bread and raised in America.

And yes Senator McCarthy I never have been a member of a communist or socialist party and have never signed a petition supporting any un-American activities. I admit at one brief period in my life teenage years I was a card carrying union member, but that does not mean I was an active member and never once participated in a work walk out or strike.

Racial profiling can be an effective tool if everyone could get past the the "politically correct" induced paralazisis the term brings on, logic would tell one that if 90% of illegals are of Hispanic decent that if you intended to arrest illegals concentrating on that attribute would prove fruitful, a fact that no one will acknowledge because they fear being labeled a bigot, doesn't change the facts any, the fact is their are some that would demand special and discriminatory treatment of illegals over the rights of American Citizens, who's the real bigot?

Wow! America is just as racist and bigoted as ever. Illegals are human beings, the fact the Americans are refering to them as only "Illegals" is sad. America voted for a black president, but we are as bigoted as we have always been. i am just guessing but anyone who says racial profiling is affective has never been profiled. I think the fact that we have a black president has made all of the racist and prejudice people banned together and scream and push harder so they can "take back america". logic is wrong because "illegal" status also are expired visas. human being all deserve to make a living for themselves and their families. America realy needs to get over themselves we flaunt the "American Dream" then punish those who want it

"Wow! America is just as racist and bigoted as ever. Illegals are human beings,"

I agree illegals are human beings, human beings that don't belong in this country, human beings that do not have "rights" that legal citizens enjoy, human beings that suck up resources paid for and meant for legal Americans, human beings that are the responsibility of another Government not mine, human beings that take jobs that belong to American citizens, human beings who are not vaccinated spreading diseases throughout the country we spent years eradicating, get it. If you think they "deserve" something load up a van full of them, take them back where they belong and give it to them, I'll pay for the gas, but make no mistake this country owes them nothing.

So W Busch are you ready to fork over your portion of the cost of enforcing immigration laws? The fact is that no administration or congress has adequately funded border security. The wall was a waste of money. Just look at any other security wall and there will be tunnels under and ladders over. It takes boot on the ground to guard a border. I am sure that millions of unemployed people would take those jobs. Also the notion that corporations are the primary employers of illegal immigrants is untrue. I am sure a lot of everyday Joes hire Jose and Jesus to work their yards, repairs and paint their homes, build their Mc-Mansions and shuck oysters etc.

I agree that Corporate America is probably not the major employer of illegals not large corporations anyway, and it would be less of a task to prosecute the employers than to seal the border, I also know there is no political energy on either side of the isle to do such a thing, there is no political energy to do anything when it comes to this issue, the Dems think they get votes for doing nothing, the Repubs get slave labor, everybody's happy, except the taxpayer or the smuck that gets canned because Jesus will work for half his wages with no benefits, and as everyone knows D.C. doesn't reallyy care what these two groups think, I honestly don't see anything happening until the illegals start to negatively impact the top 2% that make all the rules in this country, it's actually too late for this country to make corrections on several fronts, we have already passed the point of no return, most have not or refuse to acknowledge that fact, the "good ol' days" are past for this country and the new normal will not resemble what America is supposed to be, the American Dream is no longer available for the masses, just the wealthy will consider America a decent place to live in the future, the Republicans dream of a two class system has come to pass. And we all just sat back and watch it happen, sad

W Bush I agree with most of that starement. I do not agree that the good old days are all past.

w bush - "I agree that Corporate America is probably not the major employer of illegals not large corporations anyway, and it would be less of a task to prosecute the employers than to seal the border, I also know there is no political energy on either side of the isle to do such a thing, there is no political energy to do anything when it comes to this issue" - this is exactly what Obama is trying to do. If you were referring to Congress then I agree, and of course I understand it may be difficult for you to agree with Obama (It was hard for me to agree with the few things W did that I liked, like making a large chunk of the ocean a protected national monument). But, even thought his hispanic constituents won't like it, Obama wants to go after employers.

I remember when some body said: We hold these truths to be self evident; that all men are created equal. Supposed to mean something in this country, but sadly I don't think it dopes anymore.

Brundo you left out some pieces.. "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Salt grass,.. just how would you prove who you are if you left your drivers license at home how does the police officer know you did not steal the car? Because you say so? If you have no ID you are stupid to start with and need to be detained.

Brundo, when those word were written, America supported slavery. So they agreed, even in the beginning, not all men are created equally.

Brent, if Obama wants to go after the employer's of illegal aliens, whats stopping him, it's already a federal law. We have all the illegal alien laws we need to fix this problem. The problem is the will to carry them through, and enforce them.

No, he is a good attorney who happens to believe that this country should follow the law. And he also happens to believe in the US Constitution.

I'll bet he carries ID at all times?

Sad but true Steeler Fan!

They have no platform or accomplishments to run on... so they dig back into the righties sack of deceit & dirty tricks and play another worn out 'card'!

Steeler fan - The sad thing is that you think this will motivate the poor, huddled masses to rise up and vote.....but these masses watch alot of Rush and Beck and are finely trained in the art of double-think and double-speak. It reminds me of a Simpsons episode where mayor Quimby uses illegal immigration as a scape goat issue to hide all of his crimes.

Whose money do you think the DOJ is wasting sueing Az? Get off the Koolaid it will warp your brain even more.

I realize that I am wasting my time addressing someone who thinks that using ANY phrase about kool aid is au courant, but here goes: Whomever the President was on this date, rather Republican or Democrat,he/she would HAVE to sue Arizona to protect Federal prerogatives. Enforcement of immigration law is left to the Feds by the Constitution. Now, if you want to make an argument that no President has done a good job with enforcement, you may find agreement. Do go read a book and turn off Beck and the other Fox morons.

.....In a country built on equality, I wonder why no politicians support a 'maximum' wage law?

Equality doesn't mean equal results. Equality means that each person is free to use his or her God given talents to achieve whatever they wish to achieve without regard to birthright. For Pete's sake, we currently have a president who was once on food stamps. If that doesn't represent the idea that anyone can achieve whatever they set their minds to, I don't know what else does. In my opinion, the main positive thing about the election of Obama was that it proved in no uncertain terms, that all Americans (regardless of class or race) are free and are capable of achieving. His policies and political philosophy, on the other hand, I don't agree with.

Ellis,one time OK,the Unions have a double or triple clause written into their contracts concerning minmum wage . That is they get double or triple what minimum wage is for their starting employees,Thus making it go from say 7.00 per hour to 14 or 21 dollars an hour,from there up as a union member gets seniority,so increase the minimum wage a dollar and a union member gets 2 to 3 dollars more an hour,and that is starter employees,multiply that by 30-50,000 employees and your operating cost goes up over $100,000.00 dollars an hour. That is why corporations that employee thousands who are union workers fight minimum wage increases.

Reality -- I think you need to get a reality check. Wow!! You actually think innocent people being arrested happens on rare occasions. I think you need to start living in the real world.

I am against the Arizona law because it targets people who are not caucasian. It targets people who are here legally and who are not breaking any laws.

People who hire illegal immigrants are breaking the law, but funnily enough no-one wants to create a law targeting these people.......... they just want to make sure their tax cuts don't expire.

Go after the companies / individuals that hire illegals and they'll figure out there is no reason to be here. If we do this does this mean the Federal Government trying to interfere with Capitalism? What about the corporations who make huge profits from cheap labor? Will they be the next victims of Unions?

I believe I have just opened up a worm hole...be careful this could lead to socialism. ;^)

I think too many people assume that because someone defends illegals or calls for reform of the sytem, that automatically means we do not think they broke the law or that the borders should be wide open for more. That's a false conclusion. Most democrats are not defending the way they got here but rather are looking for a solution and demanding immigration reform. I believe the legal route to the USA is the right route. But I also know that many illegals have been here for years, they consider this their home as do their children, and rounding up 13 million people spread across every state is a task which is both financially and feasibly impossible.

We are talking about the total population of Los Angeles and New York City combined. I read an article stating it would take 166,000 buses to transport every illegal back to their country of origin. The cost to round them up, house them, feed them and process them must also be considered. Think of the huge price tag on that.

Most democrats do not defend illegals for breaking the law but recognize that a reasonable, sensible solution to the problem of those who are here is necessary. Republican politicians on the other hand demand action, work themselves into a frenzy every two years over it but are unwilling to work at finding a solution. You cannot secure the borders until the rest of the broken immigration system is repaired--they require in simulaneous action.

Not to mention how many boats and planes would be used for those illegal immigrants that are not Hispanic

Ramboet wrote ".....Arizona law because it targets people who are not caucasian. It targets people who are here legally and who are not breaking any laws...".

Asians aren't Caucasians, too, but they're not afraid of cops if they are stopped while driving. If a non-US citizen is here LEGALLY, he or she just needs to show the valid IDs.

If you're a legal resident, relax and drink some lemonade first, you are too anxious about nothing.

JoAnnaSmith

Reality: Wow... amazing that we now have a country that fights to protect those who break the law... ILLEGAL

Not the country Real, just the left-wing nuts. For some reason the Left of the country think illegals somehow are victims, somehow have the right to be here, somehow do not have to obey our laws. They'll rant all day about corporations not following the laws, but when it comes to illegals, those people are to be protected, they can ignore our laws, and they can live freely in our so called sanctuary cities. The US has a right to it's sovereignty, it has a right to say who can and can't be here. There are laws on the books that protect our sovereignty, but those laws are ignored. So I guess we can obey some laws, and not others. If you listen to the Left wingnuts of the country, that is exactly what they believe.

JoAnna, the victimization is perputated to illegals through many facuetts because this Neo Nazi law was written just to racial profile against Hispanics. What about other nationalites here illegaly?

Your Sovereignty case does not reign supreme because it violates the Constitution; something you and other righties have a twisted view of.

JoAnna,

The truth is that corporations don't follow the laws and that is a huge cause of the continuation of this issue.

Obama has started to crack down on more corporate tax evaders and rightly so. In fact some on the left are critizing the continued deportation of parents that separate families. Posting two articles.

First is from the Bush years bemoaning the lack of fining corporate immigration law cheaters for companies. You know the illegal employeers. It is from that left wing rag "Washington Post"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800613.html

"The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.

In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."

It would appear to me that the previous administration looked the other way to ensure cheap labor for their friends.

Ok I admit I googled this one but I think we could agree that this guy got what he deserved

http://www.businessbrief.com/owner-gets-10-years-in-prison-for-hiring-illegals/

"He had hired hundreds of illegal aliens and paid them in cash – thereby avoiding paying the government employment taxes, Social Security and Medicare. According to the feds, the company had cheated the IRS out of more than $16 million."

Not a black and white issue JoAnna. There is never one side that is solely at fault. That being said everyone should work together in a rational not irrational way to solve this issue.

I believe in the laws including enforcing the ones that companies break. I am for comprehensive reform to change the law to allow guest workers and to allow for a legalalization process to start once undocumented workers are fined.

Bev in Chicago

Your Sovereignty case does not reign supreme because it violates the Constitution; something you and other righties have a twisted view of.

Bev, if our Constitution does not provide for our sovereignty, then we have much bigger problems then you could ever imagine.

Try putting the blame where it belongs--those employers who hire them. If no one hired them, they would not come.

JoAnnaSmith

Bev in Chicago

Bev, if our Constitution does not provide for our sovereignty, then we have much bigger problems then you could ever imagine.

Exactly, that your twisted view smacks of inequality. So see JoAnna we just can't have 50 seperate but unequal states. That's why before the Civil War and today it's still called the United States of America. Get It?

JoAnna Smith

Exactly, that's why your twisted view smacks of inequality. So you see JoAnna we just can't have 50 seperate but unequal states. That's why before the Civil War and today it's still called the United States of America. Get It?

Settle down Bev, you tend to rant, and it covers up for some decent points you are making.

It is the federal government jobs to create and enforce immigration laws. Currently the federal government is AWOL from that duty. The states each coming up their own immigration laws is not feasible in the long run, but it is getting the federal governments attention that it better start doing it's job. And until the federal government starts doing it's job, I'm all for the states protecting themselves. Do you have any idea the hardship illegals put on the border states? California is bankrupt because of illegals. One third of our federal prisons are occupied by illegals that have committed criminal acts in this country.

This shedding any light on the subject for you Bev?

JoAnna, actually the major problem facing California is their requirement for there to be a 2/3 majority for passing any new taxes there. Since some of the districts have been gerrymandered to make sure that some seats never change hands politically this has caused a huge logjam and so tax initiatives have never been able to pass since. Prop. 13 is the reason that California is bankrupt, not the illegals. The illegals are typically why California is still afloat actually, since they do the bulk of the farmwork and harvesting there which is the mainstay of the economy.

And I would like to see proof of your assertion that 1/3 of our prisons are filled with illegals.

JoAnna: Keep up the good work, the others must not know what the constitution says!! Article III Section 2 Clause 2 says "In all Casea affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme couort shall have original jurisdiction. In all other cases before mentioned the supreme court shall have appellate jurisdiction". To me, according to our Constitution, means the AZ judge Bolton nor the 9th circuit court in San Francisco have any legal right to rule on this case... Article I, Section 10 says "No state shall without the consent of Congress engage in WAR, unless invaded or in such danger as will not admit of delay". I guess this just means (depending on your definition of invaded) you have the right to protect the citizens of your state. I have to agree with Gov. Brewer in this case.

Not to be too cynical, IR, but I doubt his motives. Is illegal immigration a big issue in Virginia? It is not here in Pa.

Steeler fan I have no doubt that his motives are not pure unless you consider them pure teabagger. Yes as Pietro has posted several times we do have a large Hispanic population especially in the trades and especially in Northern Va. Are they a problem? no Like all the other Yahoo's McDonnell and his pet wing nut are just raising straw men while ignoring other serious problems for which they have no answers. That being said only thing I would point out is he has unlike Arizona issued a opinion that is rooted in defensible law and procedure as long as the local officials don't take it as a license to abuse. Your cycnicism for this gentleman is well deserved. If the cat told me that the sun was going to come up tommrrow I'd set my alarm real early to make sure.

I thought you wanted to be honest? you have no proof the Az law will be racist,all you have is your Racist beliefs.

Jody,

Don't let facts get in the way of an inflamed public. If people start thinking then a lot of career politicians would be in big trouble.

Dan. You're so right.

You would think that instead of spending so much money on a Federal Court Case and the time and money spent on this misfit law that they would spend the time and money on just enforcing what laws that they do have instead. But no, they are making it an election year issue for the sole reason of presenting a wedge issue to the public to rile them up and create fear, angst and hatred to take the attention away from the Repubs saying NO to everything that could be helping our economy and away from the huge number of accomplishments by the Dems and Pres. Obama in the 20 months that they have had the Presidency.

This is more about Those Too Rich To Fail trying to sway the electorate with hate and fear instead.

Curious - AGAIN, for the umteenth time - if the people were NOT enticed to come here in the first place, then you would have your hunting area all to yourself WITHOUT having to worry about hitting another human.

So WHY are you so fixated on 'securing the border'?

The Soviet Union 'secured the border' for years. Did it work? We had a wall in Berlin for YEARS after the cold war. Did that wall work?

Can you name ONE country - just one - that has 'secure borders'?

Or is this another 'talking point' used to bash the current President?

Iran has secure borders. Yes, the walls in Berlin worked very well. When you could be shot for getting close to it for any reason, it has the propensity to become a deterrent. I am not suggesting walls, just help with the flow.I never mentioned anything about the president, and I blame Reagan for giving amnesty to all the illegals in the first place in 1986.

Just being the United States of America is the enticement, the chance for a better life, and that will never change. I am not only about securing the border, I also want severe penalties for employers who hire illegals. Contractors cannot underbid those who use illegal labor to build here, or tile floors, etc. due to the labor costs. The government does not enforce the laws that apply already.

The Republicans want the cheap labor for their business constituents and the Democrats want voters. I blame them both. You have no view of the border from Columbus, only what the press and liberal proponents are giving you for talking points. How do you feel about all the suffering of those coming across, you never answered that?

Curious-inAZ

When VA starts to have armed escorts for drug trafficers, maybe then you will be more aware of what AZ is going through. I cannot hunt in areas I have hunted for decades now for fear I might hit a human accidently. There are that many people coming through the desert, not to mention all the ones that died trying. Where is the outrage for that?

If we took care of the border in the first place, much of this other rhetoric (and that is all it is) would not be taking place.

Curious,

I do not live in Az . Therefore, I must rely on stats.

According to Politifact , a non partisan fact checker, Jan Brewer and other Righties are a flat out liars and rate them absolutely untrue on the Truth-0-Meter.

Federal statistics bear this out. We looked at the latest available statistics, covering March 2010, for prosecutions stemming from immigrations and customs activities by the Department of Homeland Security. They show that "immigration" charges accounted for almost 89 percent of cases, while drug and drug-trafficking charges accounted for just over 5 percent.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jun/30/jan-brewer/arizona-gov-brewer-says-majority-illegals-are-drug/

Now I 'm somewhat confused or should I say curious. Wouldn't you think this is the stergerty employed by the Right as a scare tacit. I Think Gov Brewer is more concerned about politics and her image since it is election; especially the many faces she presents.

Have you ever noticed one day Her face is filled with wrinkles and on another day it smooth. I mean it's as if she has face lifts. So my contention is if your governor can't keep her many faces together; she can't govern properly.

Also, would you be willing to divulge if were accosted by an illegal in the woods or are you just literally afraid ?

Curious in AZ

From an early post, it is important to note that drug runners and immigrants are not one in the same as you seem to claim. The crimes committed by the drug criminals shouldn't be blamed on the immigrants.

If your not for a border fence which by the way a completed one would be more than half the length of the Great Wall of China, what are you for? It appears you do know that the border is 2000 miles long.

Perhaps you are aware that the fences already built have pushed people into the deserts and forced them to cross dangerous obstacles like the All American Canal that runs from San Diego to the east.

60 minutes had a good piece on it a while back.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-08-05-717944056_x.htm?csp=34

I apreciate your sentiments for the suffering of people trying to come here. However, if you are concerned about their human suffering wouldn't it be great if we as democrats and republicans could improve the situation with comprehensive reform instead of just complaining about the problems. That way people could be brought in legally/safely and everyone would be happy.

Yellowdog, I never meant to group the drug trafficers, human trafficers and other border crossers together. I apologize if I gave that impression.

My point was that there is a human tragedy side to this that no one seems to be talking about. We just had the deadliest July on record for crossers. Did you see any story on this? No, and I wonder why. I never mentioned a fence, nor do I want one.

Beverly in Chicago, Why do you resort to attacking someone personally when you disagree with their politics? I do not think that most of the crime is perpetrated by illegals as the govenor stated, and most Arizonans don't think that either. She obviously mispoke, or lied. You also mentioned scare tactics. Is not the claim of racial profiling a scare tactic? Do you know nothing about our state? Did you read the SB1070 and it's specific clause regarding racial profiling? And yes, I have come across many illegals in the desert, have reported them to Border Patrol, and they did nothing. I have come across Border Patrol vehicles while hunting and found 2 of the officers sleeping in their truck. I have walked over a ridge and was within 50 yards of drug trafficers with automatic rifles, protecting their shipments. I kept my distance, reported it, and never saw anyone respond for the next hour I was able to watch them safely. One, I am not stupid enough to try to take on the Border Patrol job, nor do I want to. Not only is it wrong and illegal, but a single shot rifle is no match for what they were carrying. Live a day in my life then judge me.

Yellowdog, I never meant to group the drug trafficers, human trafficers and other border crossers together. I apologize if I gave that impression.

Curious inAZ - Perhaps I misread your statements. I apologize if I misunderstood your opinion about border security (a fence). Also glad to see you don't believe in the overstated crime statistics.

I live in Texas and we are in our third day of 105+ heat. It is supposed to continue for another week or so. I can imagine that there was a deadly month in the desert last month. I didn't see a report on the deaths in AZ because everyone would rather throw names at each other and kick the can down the road.

I agree with you that both parties have ignored this issue for too long. Not sure your political leaning but you seem like a reasonable person. Therefore, I will hold my tongue on what I think about the __— party.

Hopefully you can agree that people have to sit at the table and have an overall discussion about the various parts of the problem. Do some horse trading, I would be willing to go back to the idea of a temporary guest worker program, while everything is discusssed.

Up until sensible reform is passed, I support border enforcement and deportations / including police protection for you folks down there from the drug runners. But that is not enough, the corporations need to be fined for hiring them, the country needs to look at allowing more legal immigration. I really hope our politicians stop playing kick the can and actually WORK together.

Curious in AZ:

The Republicans want the cheap labor for their business constituents and the Democrats want voters. I blame them both. You have no view of the border from Columbus, only what the press and liberal proponents are giving you for talking points. How do you feel about all the suffering of those coming across, you never answered that?

For your information, just because I live in Columbus, Ohio does NOT mean that I do not know what it is like living in a border city. I have been there, done that.

Second - thank you for your response to my question/challenge. I do find it interesting that you mentioned IRAN. I must admit that I hadn't thought about that country, so I guess you have answered my challenge!!

Look, Curious - I see in your post(s) that you at LEAST acknowledge that there are other methods and issues concerning illegal immigration. For the record, I feel terrible about the suffering that people are going through just to get here so they can make some money.

I am more angry at the AMERICANS that exploit these people. Most of the people coming from Mexico are not rocket scientists; they just want to work. THey have jobs though, unlike a good 20% of Americans.

Let's face it , Curious, securing the border with troops and dogs is NOT going to happen, no matter what ANYONE says. What we CAN do - even if the Feds don't - is to make it unattractive for people to cross the border in the first place. That is the way to solve our problem.

Good argument.

The right portrays the left as supporting illegals coming here. I think the question should not be who sounds tougher on illegals but rather who is hiring them. If state and federal governments crack down on employers, a huge part of the problem is resolved. How many AZ employers use E-Verify? Arizonans should be asking that question instead of yelling about securing the border. If we hire them, they will continue to come illegally. If we don't hire them, why would they come illegally.

CA, what makes you think profiling will not work? Have you any proof or is it just your racist beliefs that the Az law will use profiling? Where do you think a majority of illegals come from Canada? If profilig will keep one of your family or Kids from being killed ,Raped, Attacked or Robbed then you may change your mind. Anyway who does not carry proper ID nowdays?

Where does CA, Tuscaloosa accuse the officers of being racist? He doesn't. The original law itself put officers in a position of either asking every person stopped for their "papers" or choosing to target those who only look like they could be illegal--that does not make the officers racist. It does, however, force them to profile.

Profiling does not mean a person is a racist, it simply means looking at people who fit the presumed "profile" of an illegal in Arizona--dark skin, dark eyes, not well dressedt and selectively targeting only those individuals to demand "papers". I see a good number of dark skinned, dark eyed people in Iowa walking around in faded and holey blue jeans and t-shirts, and they were born here. Transport them to AZ and they fit the profile.

Profiling is used by police pretty regularly and there's nothing wrong with it. If a guy driving a green car, wearing a blue shirt robs the gas station--anyone fitting that profile can and should be stopped for questioning. That's good use of profiling. Poor use is selectively targeting groups who fit the presumed description of a general population.

Jody:

Thank you. Curious only reads what they want to read to support or validate their own arguements. You are correct. No where in my posts have I stated that police officers are or would be racists. They would however profile a certain race and segment of our population to ask for legal documentation.

As for Curious's coments that one has to live along the border to understand the issue perhaps that is true. But I am not judging as to whether the AZ Law is good or bad. I am simply saying that the Law was meant to target Hispanics, period. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. And to say that the AZ Law was passed because of great concern for the masses of Chinese or Russians coming across the border is ludicrous. That is just more proof that people are not willing to be honest about this issue and the recent AZ Law. It was meant for those Hispanics that come across the border from Mexcio.

CA

Again Ill ask this question:

Granting that there are illegal aliens in this country from many many countries where do the majority of them come from? Central America right? And of that percentage an even larger percentage come from Mexico.

Stop with the race baiting please. Stating a fact -- in this instance -- "The majority of illegal aliens come from Central America / Mexico" is not profiling or any other politically correct word you want to use. It is simply calling a spade a spade.

The vast majority of illegal aliens are Mexican. Therefore if that is a truth then its not being racist or anything else.

What I am saying (and yes in our PC world you and the other lefties will accuse me of being racist) is that it only makes sense to target a certain section of the population if the vast majority of illegal aliens come from a certain ethnicity.

Larry - there are more illegal immigrants coming from Eastern Europe that there are coming from Mexico. The Eastern Europeans are overstaying their visitor's visas and SOMEONE in AMERICA is helping them stay here.

In other words, Larry, the majority of illegal immigrants look like YOU.

And they are sucking up the social services faster than a new Dyson vaccuum cleaner. Ask anyone in Brooklyn... and I hope you can speak Russian.

Where's the outrage for that, Larry? Why aren't you upset at THOSE illegal immigrants living the life on YOUR dime?

But you can go ahead and THINK that Mexico is where most of the illegal immigrants come from - that's fine with me.

Actually, under INS regulations, being here 'illegally' is no greater offense (Class B misdemeanor, I believe) than speeding more than 10 miles over the speed limit. People on this blog want to pretend it is equivalent to homicide or something. The ranting is quite amusing.

Often people over stay their legal expiration dates and in MANY cases the backlog at INS prevents timely extensions of employer sponsored green cards. Yes there are people who enter this country illegally. But it isn't the criminal act these posers want it to be. Those who enter and then commit crimes are being deported in record numbers.

All Beck hating aside.......if you don't carry your passport while in another country, you can be deported immediately. This is why there is a push for a National ID. One more way to keep track of the citizens.

In AZ, you can't get a driver's license if you are illegal, hence during a traffic stop, no DL is a sign of something wrong. I will not carry my birth certificate, nor my SS card. I will show my DL, proof of insurance and registration of my vehicle only when I am stopped. If it isn't enough, then I will be suing the government for impeding my civil rights.

so which is it Curious?

We WANT to be like other countries and deport;

But we DON'T want to be like other countries and offer universal healthcare? I get so confused with the REAL point you are trying to make. We should be more like other countries or we should be INDEPENDENT of other Countries?

You can't have both, you'll have to pick just one!

@Curious-inAZ

That's all well and good. But not having a DL does not necessarily mean that a person is illegal.

I ask again: What consititutes proof of legal immigration status? If I get pulled over in AZ and the officer asks me to prove that I'm a legal citizen what documentation do I need to present? And are you ok with giving the police the authority to detain YOU if you are not able to meet that standard? In America we are all equal before the eyes of the law. SB1070 applies to you too...

Hatter,

Someone on this site (I believe it was Pietro) indicated that out of fifty states, roughly ten do not require proof of citizenship to receive either a valid state issued I.D., or a Driver's License. The Arizona law requires proof of identification, one of which items is a drivers license, or state issued i.d. from a state that requires proof of citizenship. I don't know which states don't require proof, but just doing the math, 80% of the states driver's licenses are acceptable proof of citizenship. Perhaps the remaining ten states should consider modifying their process, so that all states are similar? Maybe that infringes upon states rights, I don't know, but it seems to be an easy answer short of a federal I.D., which some oppose for various and sundry reasons.

Curious. What about people who do not drive and have no driver's license?

That's the state issued i.d. side of things. Same criteria for Arizona, if it's a state that requires proof prior to issuance, it's good to go. No i.d. at all (approved forms) becomes a separate problem in and of itself.

@ Lvinig in L.A.

Lovely. I live in one of those states that only requires proof of residence for a DL. Which means that I really ought not to visit AZ anytime soon, I geuss. Well, not really because I'm scotch/norwegian so I won't be pestered by police looking for mexicans. But then again, that's why the law is racist. Oh well.

At the end of the day, I'm a big believer that when a society starts mandating "papers" it's just about time to get out of dodge. Just my opinion, obviously, but after they're done rounding up the mexicans they can move on to whichever class of humans they want to blame stuff on next. It might just be you!

Hatter,

I expect that if you feel offended by the concept of this law (regardless of the fact that it's been modified to adapt to stated profiling concerns), you should do what many in California purportedly are doing, boycott the state. One of the things I plan to do when I visit Arizona in the future, is to "not break any laws". If I don't break the law, regardless of the fearmongering that is taking place, I don't believe it will have any impact on me personally, or the overwhelming majority of Americans. White, black, brown, or yellow, so long as you abide by the law, it most likely will be a non-event to visitors. The Justice Department will be watching over the Arizonan's shoulders, and will no doubt, be ready willing and able to file another lawsuit if in fact Arizona enforcement goes too far.

@ Lvining in L.A.

Yes, yes, yes. The innocent have nothing to fear. It's the time honored mantra of tyrants everywhere. I'm not "offended" by the law. I'm worried about it's implications about where we are headed as a country.

Inflating crime numbers? Phoenix is the #1 kidnapping capital in the U.S., and no, not all crimes in AZ are committed by illegals. Crime is only a small part of the bigger issue. Both parties are to blame and if you can't see that then you are just as blind as members of Congress.

Highly offended by Republicans.......do the ethics issues of the Democrats offend you? Or better yet, does any Democrat offend you? Don't blame one side when both are to blame. Galvanizing voters is what politicians do, it is how they get elected. They take hot button issues and work them for all they've got in order to sway the voters to elect them. Did you not know that? C'mon, that is high school government 101.

I am guessing that with the name like Enrique, you have a stake in this outcome.

You're right, Curious. With a name like Enrique I do have a stake in this outcome. I am a born Ameican citizen and I have relatives that are both born Americans and legalized residents and citizens. I find it highly offensive that any political party would attack me and my family and use as a politcal punching bag.

This country is becoming and will be a lot more Latino. Enrique will be just as common as John or Matt. The way that Republicans are handling this issue is reckless and destructive.

Oh, and stats don't lie. Crime is down in Phoenix. That's a fact.

And I don't happen to agree with Democrats on every issue. I just find that it's almost always the Republicans who use particular demographic groups as political punching bags. It's obvious why they do it. They attack gays and lesbians to galvanize religious voters and they attack illegal immigrants or immigrants in general to stir up xenophobic sentiments in white voters.

I think this is one of the major points and I'm glad you brought it up. Both parties use race and other things to garner the votes they think they need to get elected. Everyone who claims some sort of hyphenated American status play right into it. Democrats use race as much as the Republicans do, just differently, but to the same ends.

I refuse to be a hyphenated American, I am simply an American. Every single group on this continent immigrated at some point, so that is not the issue. Respecting the country that I love, and will die for, is the issue. I do not have sympathy for those who break laws, then claim the law is bad.

I watch people everyday blame their circumstances on everyone but themselves, with no personal responsibiity for anything. If you speed and get a ticket, it's your fault. If you steal and get prosecuted, it's your fault.

As Americans we welcome everyone to come here and make us the best place in the world. Just respect the country first and then share in the opportunity.

Wow Dawn, this is actually an intelligent statement from you. Sort of shocked by it. I guess I asked for you to say something important, and you did.

The main issues are 1) Border security 2) What to do with the illegals that are here 3) How to prevent companies from hiring illegals. We tried the amnesty thing with Reagan with the promise of later securing the borders. We never got to the securing the borders part. That needs to be the first thing to happen this time around. Until that happens, we can't get to the other issues. And until reasonable people in Congress can come together and know they aren't going to get all what each of them want, then none of this will happen.

newdayDAWNING10 - As idealistic as it sounds, I think most people would agree with you. The 2 party system has flaws and this is one of the major ones.

If we would enforce the laws on the books, make efforts to change the ones we wish to change and work for the the long term benefit of the country, we would all be the better for it. Even President Lincoln despised the slavery laws but upheld them until legislation could be changed. People seem to want to pick and chose what laws to follow anymore. If there is a law that is bad, get it changed, that is how it works.

I don't think anyone would give Ahmadinejad the same rights as a citizen of the U.S. would get if he just decided to stroll across the border. As sad as I am for the people struggling to make a better life by risking that crossing of the desert, we have not done enough for our own citizens yet. And the people who came here by following the law, waiting their turn and becoming citizens are cheated by those who do not follow the laws.

I wonder though, Curious, how we take the inflammatory language out of it so we can strictly look at problem solving. I honestly think that is where this whole thing goes awry. If we continue to villify each other, if we continue to make it an us vs them issue, we are never going to get to the nuts and bolts of this and solve the problem. I am from San Diego, as I have said before. I do know the special problems that the border towns have faced, though I think they are being exaggerated just now to make a point. San Diego is safer now than it has been in years. We are Constitutionally mandated to protect our borders, and there is not an argument that can be made that either side has done so.

newday, I would agree with the inflammatory nature of most of the posters here. I have been called names just for stating my opinion, by people who have no knowledge of who I am, where I came from, or anything else about me. All of this detracts from the real issues and consequently prevents real solutions from being made.

I am in Tucson. If anything, our situation is being understated here. It is not safer where I used to go in the state for recreation, travel or work. I am glad San Diego is though.

People are dying every day in the desert and no one seems to care about it. I have not heard one story in the news about us setting a new record for people dying from exposure down here. This could have been taken care of 24 years ago, but we left it to the politicians in Washington to do it. Both Democrats and Republicans are responsible for the severity of the problem by not addressing it sooner. Now, emotions are high, polarizing the people to take positions far to the left or right on the subject. Not many rational people left out here, just "ranters and posers" according to a previous poster.

Curious: that is exactly the problem. Every time this comes up, it seems to be when emotions are high, and it becomes an issue used to smack the other side. I don't think there is any real interest by either party in a rational, thoughtful solution to this problem.

And everyone there lives on taxpayer money and the murder and crime rate in one of the highest in the country. Oh yea, maybe that is because of the illegals!

Also, the HIV/AIDS rate in DC is over 3%, higher than Haiti a 3rd world country.

Is it because of the; EDUCATION level, US Health Care, or influx of ILLEGALS??????

Do not use the poverty EXCUSE, DC Households have median incomes of 58K+ almost 25% higher than the National average.....

Youve been reported for hate comments

Its about time.

If you are talking about Eric, I don't necessarily think that was the most hateful thing that has been posted about this. How you coming on the Jefferson quote, Larry?

Hey NDD - Did you see Larry demanding CA answer his questions?

To comical coming from the guy who flat out REFUSES to answer any body elses?

Larry - Still waiting for you to tell me where exactly we should JAIL all the illegals...

Feisty, Here in Tucson we have the Sector HQ for the Border Patrol. They have their administration offices, vehicle motor pool, dorms and detention facility, all located on Davis-Monthan AFB. The facilities already exist around the country, the feds are just not using them very much. We have the busiest sector here, busier than TX, CA, or NM. They are understaffed for the task they have been given and cannot possibly cover all the territory along the border, or further north along the corridors most of them use.

I missed that Feisty, but it is illustrative. I have been asking Larry an awfully long time to answer my question. He conveniently ignores the question.

Curious in AZ - Your first post (which I responded to) didn't hit me the rightr way. I have been reading all of your other posts and my first impression of you was inaccurate. Continue to voice your opinion and forget the haters out there. I think it would be of value to be able to ask the hard questions from someone who still lives in AZ and know that we are getting the honest scoop.

Please keep posting.