If they got the car fixed, it would still go back in reverse.

Joe in Albany,

oh, my side is splitting. the humor, the horror. please stop. actually please stop. looks like you are cookoo for cocoa puffs today. and everyday. don't quit your day job at blockbuster.

Great post Joe! And I voted!!

In early August, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said that "we are on a path back to growth." So where did all those "green shoots" go Timmy?

Here's the lies Obama, his administration and appointees, and his friends in the media are telling us for the last 20 months:

1) Feb 29, 2009 - Obama budget predicts that the unemployment rate for 2009 will be 8.1 percent (actual rate is 9.3 percent), and says it will be 7.9 percent in 2010 (average so far: 9.7 percent)
2) March 15,2009 - Fed Chairman Bernanke says he sees "green shoots" of U.S. recovery, which, he said, would "pick up steam" next year.
3) April 14, 2009 - Obama says "We are beginning to see glimmers of hope."
4) May 18, 2009 - CNN reports that "Job Recovery May Be on the Way."
5) June 5, 2009 Jeffrey Kling of the Brookings Institution says "It seems clear the U.S. economy has turned a corner."

6) Sept 16, 2009 - Bernanke says recovery is under way and "prospects for a return to growth in the near term appear good."
7) Feb 7, 2010 - Obama says, "We are seeing the corner turn on the economy growing again."
8) April 3, 2010 Obama says, "The worst of the storm is over. ... We are beginning to turn the corner."
9) June 4, 2010 Obama says, "The economy is getting stronger by the day."

10) June 17, 2010 - Vice President Joe Biden dubs the months ahead "Recovery Summer," and David Axelrod adds that "this summer will be the most active Recovery Act season yet."
11) June 29, 2010 - Obama declares the economic recovery is "well under way."
12) July 8, 2010 White House press secretary Robert Gibbs says, "The economy is getting stronger."

http://www.aolnews.com/opinion/article/opinion-where-did-all-those-green-shoots-go/19591619

Joe in Albany

Nuff said; as youe Joe flex you weak muscles typing away Right Wing Tea bagger nonsense; as usual!!!

Not much of an auto mechanic, but I remember once when I drove a car into a ditch. I had a farmer get his tractor and pull me out. It never crossed my simple mind to 'fix the engine" to get out again!

The economy HAS turned a corner. Yesterday a question was ask by one of the posters here trying to bash the President. Is there anything worse than having a President spend us into a recession? The answer is yes a depression is worse. Like the one we were heading for before the President started spending.

"BarryBucks are a special form of U.S. currency that can only be used to run up the deficit"

Too bad George Bush discontinued printing ClintonSurplus dollars and replaced them with worthless BushBucks.

Just how short a memory do you think we have to have forgotten the Republicans ran this country into the ground?

Bev, you must have missed my reponse to your Muslim First amendment question that you were chasing me down for yesterday, since you didn't respond to the question posed in my response.

Or maybe you couldn't come up wth a response??

Sombody got a new list of talking points from FOX.

At a value of $1 Billion each, can you spend 'barrybucks' to the tune of 20 per month in Iraq, and still keep the expenditure off the books like that one guy did? What's his name? All I can remember is, we are not supposed to mention him nowadays.....

Joe in Albany,

What that car needs is a new transmission. The one that the GOP ran into the ditch is stuck in "R". Stop looking to take our country back to the Twentieth Century we have to move forward.

BTW, I didn't vote for your comment!

Disabled Veteran - Retired

Sombody got a new list of talking points from FOX

And you're still using that old list from Democrats. The one with two words on it (just so people like you don't get confused) that says:

"Blame Bush!"

Joe and JoAnna -- nice posts, let me add this.

Consumers are reluctant to consume, bankers are reluctant to lend and businesses are reluctant to hire. Everyone's still in hunkered down mode because (as Bernanke put it) the outlook for the economy is "unusually uncertain."

That's all on Obama. He's created a climate that reinforces the hunkered down mentality of these key players in the economy. From his overt hostility to the business community to the uncertain effects of costly HCR to more burdensome regulation to the specter of increased taxes, Obama is constraining the creative genius of American capitalism rather than unleashing it to get us out of this mess.

Jim Cramer is often fond of saying "the Chinese communists are better capitalists than we are." I used to laugh whenever he would say that. But not so much anymore.

JoAnna,

You continue to have a real problem with economics especially with recession economics. Like I suggested a week ago please study the 1980 recession and the great depression to better understand what should be expected for this recovery.

As long as the GDP is in positive growth, no matter how slowly, we are recovering from the negative growth. It took 10+ years to recover from the great depression which we were close to in 2008.

Any administration, R or D that did not display optimism would be remiss in their duty to inspire confidence so people will spend causing businesses to hire.

drive by,

You are absolutely right. The last ditch I got my vehicle stuck in I needed help from someone with a four wheel drive to pull me out.

You know it is pretty hard to get a vehicle out of a ditch when you have a group of people on the other end trying pushing it back in!

To Joe, JoAnna, and Bill:

Interesting that the "conservative" commenters here at First Read refuse to acknowledge the fact that it is the policies that they advocated and continue to advocate that has created the "uncertainty" that they complain about.

I am "certain" that I am not buying what you are selling.

Unregulated captalism, unpaid for tax cuts, and unfunded wars are what led us to where we are today, all brought to us by the same folks who now are b!tching and moaning like 5 year olds who don't wanna take a nap.

If there is truly any adult person in the United States of America who still believes that tax cuts don't have to be paid for and corporations don't need to be controlled, I have some beautiful beach property to sell you down on the Louisiana Gulf.

Let those who refuse to learn from the past continue to twist reality to soothe their battered psyches.

The rest of us have moved on.

P.S. I have asked each of you to explain the "conservative" approach to preventing corporate abuses like we have seen in real estate, health insurance and on Wall Street. So far, only Bill has responded with "litigate after the fact".

I don't think waiting for oil to leak, mines to blow up, and markets to melt down is the best approach. Any one of you want to explain to me why regulating corporations is wrong? Isn't America built on the concept of "checks and balances"?

Joe,

Your metaphors aren't even interesting. The President is responsible for the entire deficit. Bush tax cuts make up a third. Yes, tax cuts cost money. They have to be paid for just like the programs for the poor and disadvantage that I am sure bother you.

You complain but you have not presented even an idea to solve the problem for which you are whining.

"Recovery Summer"...

You've got to laugh to keep from crying.

Nashville - It is interesting that our friends on the other side pose but never answer questions. The economy is not in a recession anymore. We have positive economic growth for the last few quarters, of course the troubling problem is that it is a jobless recovery.

Instead of working with the Pres. for green jobs and inovation that will help the country the private sector worshipping republicans work against him.

Instead of voting to close the tax break to ship jobs overseas the GOP filibusters it.

You were right on the money about regulations, the GOP would actually "pretend" to react to the next oil/mine/wall street disaster when they happen instead of trying to do something now to prevent them.

Dennis, Columbus, Ohio:

Any administration, R or D that did not display optimism would be remiss in their duty to inspire confidence so people will spend causing businesses to hire.

Well, Dennis, there's optimism, and then there is telling the truth, and Obama and his team are not telling the truth. And Dennis you keep talking about studying the history of recessions like that is some kind of elixir and somehow proves your point. It doesn't. Obama's policies have failed Dennis. Completely. None of what he and his economic team have implemented has helped, and in fact has hurt, the economy. Independent (non-Obama) economists just rolled back their GDP estimates to just over 1%, less then half of what Obama's team is projecting. Those are dismal numbers that point more towards a double-dip recession then to any kind of recovery. And yet you and others think this all "normal". It's not a normal that most Americans believe in Dennis. They expect better.

JoAnnaSmith1

Well, Dennis, there's optimism, and then there is telling the truth, and Obama and his team iare not telling the truth. And Dennis you keep talking about studying the history of recessions like that is some kind of elixir and somehow proves your point. It doesn't. Obama's policies have failed Dennis. Completely. None of what he and his economic team have implemented has helped, and in fact has hurt, the economy.

Wow is that a load of Bull... The loans to GM alone have been a huge success. If the current administration hadn't made those loans the economy would be in much worse shape than it currently is. I don't know if you would have liked to see all of the Big Businesses that, you hard righties like to protect, received loans under TARP go belly up. I am damn glad the President has had the cojones to make those loans and press forward with his stimulus plan. He with the help of Congress has saved a huge part of our economy and pulled us back from the brink of disaster even if just ever so slightly. I am extremely tired of the GOPs brinkmanship they are playing with our economy.

For those of you who like to place blame... place it where it belongs:

All of our problems can be traced back to policies put in place by the Clinton Administration.

The economy was already starting to implode by the time Bush took office.

Actually, the Democrats are doing everything in their power to fix the mess that W & Company spent 8 years creating. However, in typical repug fashion instead of being part of the solution they are trying to maintain the problem. They reason that if they can just keep the mess that they made in tact for just a while longer that they'll be back in power and can continue destroying this once great nation, so they have fought and filibustered every Democratic attempt to fix mess that they created. Don't forget when the repugs took over in 2000 we had a $237 billion budget surplus. Through tax cuts for the wealthy, a war we couldn't win and didn't need to fight, and countless other tactics we now have a $1.3 trillion deficit, the national debt has doubled from $5.5 to $11 trillion, and unemployment has more than doubled ALL UNDER A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS AND A REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION. Yes, I can see why we should give them control of Congress again.

Dennis,

There goes JoAnna again, setting unreasonable expectations and then rolling her proverbial eyes at studying. Denial about how far in the ravine we actually were in late 2008 just seems to be a 'new' normal for that crowd. 18 months of policies can't even be compared to the 8 years of reality MOST of us witnessed with our own eyes. But if Ed McMahon's replacement doesn't show up on her doorstep with her Clearing House check,...well the world must be at great peril today. Some people should grow up - or at least shut up,...but then 'they' never learn,...just complain, complain, complain. They probably don't even know what a mop or a shovel looks like.

Oh well, as Feisty would say - you can't fix stupid,...and the willfully ignorant abound.

JoAnnaSmith1

You have your right to say that Obama's policies haven't worked. As most of his accomplishments are fairly recently won, health care and wall street reform, aid to states; the only policy you can claim hasn't worked is the stimulus.

As noted before the TARP bank bailout was not passed under Obama, but under his direction the Banks are paying back their loans with interest by the way.

That being said lets look at the Stimulus, the "wasteful spending" that you howl about. I won't ask you what McCain/Palin would have done to stimulate the economy, who cares its irrelevant. I will not dwell on the fact that these problems festered and exploded under Bush. I'll agree Democrats share some blame with the GOP. The public can claim some blame as well as some people's overindulgence caused some of the housing problems, ie. (Excessive home equity loans, living above your means etc.)

Ok, all that being said, what can be done to improve the economy, increase the GDP and reduce unemployment? Do we just extend the Bush Tax cuts and hope for the best? Hope that the wealthy "Private sector captains of industry" hire and save our economy. Funny that for the ten years that the cuts have been implemented they didn't create a boon in hiring. I remember it wasn't until the 1st quarter of 2004 that Bush finally created the first surplus of jobs.

Do you think that complaining about social issues/family values, repealing health care, demonizing immigrants and repealing the 14th amendment is part of the solution?

There is nothing wrong with _itching but ideas please.

First, I want to get a word out there, Plutocracy, a government controlled directly or indirectly by the wealthy.

I can not believe that people can so easily dismiss what got this country in the situation that we are in. I also cannot believe that people think that Obama and his administration should be able to bring this country out of a recession in two years, when it took George W. Bush, and his administration, eight years to run this county in the ground, or "run the car in the ditch". Obama and his administration continue to propose plan after plan of ways that he thinks might help this country, and the Republican conservatives continue to shoot them down. For example, Obama recently proposed a 30 billion dollar plan to the SBA to stimulate the economy; yet, the Republicans shot this plan down. Also, the heartless, Republican, "no voters" denied 7.4 billion dollars to the 9/11 heroes, which consisted of only 12 republicans voting for the Bill, and 94% of Democrats voting for the Bill. One might argue because the Democrats required a 2/3 vote on the Bill, it failed. However, Democrats wanted to prevent Republicans from adding something to the Bill to benefit their Corprate buddies.

It also amazes me on how dump people can be. Republicans are now using the term "conservative" to appear as though they are going back to what Republicans use to represent. Guess what, its the same thing they represented in the Bush era, the trickle down method. Yet, I continue to here reports of these banks and businesses that had to be bailed out by my money, and yours too, of hoarding millions of dollars.

I have a theory, maybe, just maybe, the Republicans are hoarding money and voting against Democrats so that it looks as though nothing is changing, things are getting worse. But, you ask, why would they ever do such a thing? I thik I have an answer, its because they want Democrats to lose their popularity among the American people so that in November they can take over the Senate and the House. In turn, deregulating everything they possibly can to help corprate America.

Joe in Albany

Wouldn't have to use "Obamabucks" if the lil Shrub hadn't bankrupt the country. Its always comforting how conservative seem to have forgotten 01-08. Its like there was no in the White House. It went from Clinton directly to Obama. For the last 30 years, so called conservatives have driven this economy into a ditch. That traitor Reagan, running up the country's credit for what, "Star Wars" w/ the Russians, selling weapons to the Iranians? George Bush senior w/ Nafta, Tricky Dicky w/ Vietnam, and last but not least, the Lil Shrub and Darth Cheney. Before you start laying blame at Obama, like you tend to do, look at your own party and accept responsibility for its actions.

Conservative these days seems to mean racist xenophobia hatemonger

My thoughts on Supply Side Economics. Don't pee down my back and tell me it's raining.

R = Trickle Down Theory

D = A rising tide lifts all boats.

wakeup-1950437

JoAnnaSmith1

Well, Dennis, there's optimism, and then there is telling the truth, and Obama and his team iare not telling the truth. And Dennis you keep talking about studying the history of recessions like that is some kind of elixir and somehow proves your point. It doesn't. Obama's policies have failed Dennis. Completely. None of what he and his economic team have implemented has helped, and in fact has hurt, the economy.

Wow is that a load of Bull... The loans to GM alone have been a huge success. If the current administration hadn't made those loans the economy would be in much worse shape than it currently is

Huge success? Really? So where is GM's quarterly report? How do they rate against the competition? Why isn't anyone offering to buy them back from the government? And when will the GM bond holders, the ones that got zilch from the government takeover of GM, get their money back?

The government is in the business of picking winners and losers, and that is a poor way to run a country. If GM folded, the other car manufacturers, like Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc., would have picked up the market that GM occupied. So now GM is being fed billions in government bailout money, and now they show a "profit". Like I said, lets see the books, the quarterly report, or any report, and see how the "profit" matches up with the expenses, ie., the bailout.

Paula Silvia..... your'e fulla baloney! Bush's last budget had a $500B deficit.... then he added TARP = almost $1.3T deficit! Do you think that Pres Obama can eliminate such a deficit in one year? in a DEEP economic crisis??? Answer: NO!

Now, did you know that just about 85% of the current NATIONAL DEBT, the accumulation of all the deficits, was run up under JUST reagan/bush/bush??? Yes, over 10T in debt! If they HAD not done that, we wouldnt be having this conversation OR be in the mess we're in!! And it was all DELIBERATE!!! (google: starve the beast" ) The gop ruined this country financially, just so they could elminate SS, medicare etc and then privatize them!!!

You want the fox back in charge of the chicken even AFTER he ate all the chickens?????

Nathan: It also amazes me on how dump people can be. Republicans

"dump people"? You know Feisty?

wakeup-1950437

D = A rising tide lifts all boats.

So Wake, doesn't look like that tides coming in anytime soon.

Joe in Albany

If people want to build a M mosque whats the problem? Oh I forgot it north of Ground zero, you know the spot where your guy dropped the dropped the ball. For people who want reglious freedom for themselves, they sure are hypocritical of others having that same freedom. Then again hyprocrisy is the life's bllod of the GOP these days.

Beverly - your reply to JoAnna and Joe's posts imply they are typical dumb Teabag comments. Please, I invite you to give tell us all where they were not accurate statements. If you can not point to which one/s were false, then don't be a hater because your party is inept. Thank you.

Yellowdog: Ok, all that being said, what can be done to improve the economy, increase the GDP and reduce unemployment?

Good questions.

As I said in a post later on, trust in the market-based economy and not the government-based economy. Regulate businesses, but don't regulate them out of existence, or place too much uncertainty on them. Government should partner with business, and not be an adversary to them. Having politicians point the finger of blame at businesses for cheap political points is not the best policy. Keep taxes moderate on businesses and reduce government spending by 10% each of the next three years to start closing the deficit gap - government does not need as much money as it is currently spending. Stop the bailouts and let winners and losers be chosen by the market, not the government.

is OK

Beverly - your reply to JoAnna and Joe's posts imply they are typical dumb Teabag comments. Please, I invite you to give tell us all where they were not accurate statements

Bev, Feisty, Clara, Navy, NF, CA, etc., are the comic relief around here. When things get slow it's fun to rattle their cages. If you're looking for anything more out of them, you'll be very disappointed.

Nashville - people invested millions in real estate after Barney Frank said Freddie and Fannie were financially sound. As everyone knows, a week later they imploded - people lost millions.

So Clara, rather then cheerleading for "your side", why don't you answer a few of the questions others have asked. I know, you don't knows much about it, but please, tell us what will get the economy going. And don't just "ditto" what Obama is doing, we know that's a failure.

Clara: Oh well, as Feisty would say - you can't fix stupid,...

Feisty should know, she's terminal with the disease.

Nashville - people invested millions in real estate after Barney Frank said Freddie and Fannie were financially sound. As everyone knows, a week later they imploded - people lost millions.

- Rush is OK

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even if every word you type were the truth, how would that change the fact that "conservatives" have bankrupted this country with unfunded tax cuts, unfunded wars, and deregulation?

Oh yeah, it doesn't.

No matter what you folks drag up about ACORN, and teleprompters, and birth certificates, and Fannie and Freddie, it is not going to change the fact that what you DID screwed up our economy and what you PROPOSE to fix it is to do it all again.

Not. gonna. happen.

P.S. JoAnna, you're right about "rattling cages", 'cept the cage is yours, not mine. . . of course you are free to leave anytime . . . but of course you would have to be able to think for yourself to figure a way out . . . oh well, enjoy your exercise wheel! ;o)

Yeah. It's not like if you try to inject a little positive tone to a post- some one else questions your math skills, or makes some other completely irrelevant comment, right?

JoAnna

Bev, Feisty, Clara, Navy, NF, CA, etc., are the comic relief around here. When things get slow it's fun to rattle their cages. If you're looking for anything more out of them, you'll be very disappointed.

I realize we can't get anything out of them, but if we keep asking them to tell us where we are wrong and they can't.... maybe we can make them think for themselves. A girl can dream, can't she?

JoAnna,

How about watching something other then FOX News? You might have heard what GM reported yesterday. But since all you seem to do is spew neonoise garbage. Here are a for links for you.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38672838/ns/business-autos

www.businessweek.com/.../general-motors-quarterly-profit-rises-to-1-5-billion.html

www.marketwatch.com/.../gm-quarterly-profit-reaches-13-billion-2010-08-12

www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67A4AO20100812

Now as my ol' GOP Granddad used to say "put that in your pipe and smoke it!"

We may be the comic relief, BUT YOU ARE THE JOKE!!!!

JoAnna,

I wouldn't stand to close to the low tide marker without your water wings on. You just might have scream for help, when that tide comes in, from the lifeguard who's job was proably saved by the Obama Stimulus you hate so much.

Nash, thanks for your feedback, but I really don't have anytime for your circular "arguments", your endless navel-gazing, and running off on tangent discussions you tend to embark on. I'll say this though, you're a notch above some of the lefties around here. A very small notch.

wakeup-1950437

JoAnna,

How about watching something other then FOX News?

Never watch it.

Next question.

And I'm getting a bit parched out here waiting for that tide to come in wake. Could you bring me some kool-aide, and not the Obama kook[sic]-aide you seem to be drinking?

Who's berry? You mean DDUHDINGLEBARRY that crapped on Uhmerika??Good thing his sidekick Dickie couldn't orchestrate the economy the way he managed wars or the place would be shut down and we'd all be livin like Texicans..

JoAnna

"Having politicians point the finger of blame at businesses for cheap political points is not the best policy."

I agree, sensible politicians should be working together. I disagree with your ideas that there is too much government regulation and taxation on business. Remember in my opinion a market based economy with limited regulations in place caused most of these problems. But thanks for your thoughts.

The GOP is grasping at straws, and a straw man again with their usual fallacious argumentation and lack of logical reasoning.

FALSE: The debate is not about big versus small government. If is was, then why vote for Republicans who have created big government? Deficit spending has been greatest during Republican administrations, as well as infringement on privacy (e.g., The Patriot Act, warrant-less wiretaps, Terri Schivo, etc.).

Also, we still have Bush's tax cuts for the top 2% of wealth (those with earnings of a quarter million or more), and we are still in the toilet. So how can Republicans argue to extend these tax cuts? How can they argue that tax cuts don't have to be paid for, or don't contribute to the deficit? Only the willfully ignorant will fall for this.

The debate is about stupid versus smart government.

In addition, I keep hearing how the economy isn't recovering because businesses are worried about taxes and health care costs. That is total BS. From another article today:

"The latest economic data out this week confirmed a gloomier forecast issued by the Federal Reserve Tuesday after its regular rate-setting meeting. That has renewed fears of a so-called “double-dip” recession that are weighing on investors, spooking consumers and slowing businesses from hiring."

So we come full circle to economic uncertainty regarding housing, spending, and things that have nothing to do with taxes and health care. Let's hope the majority of voters use the Rule of Reason and vote for Dems in November.

The GOP is grasping at straws, and straw man again with their usual fallacious argumentation and lack of logical reasoning.

FALSE: The debate is not about big versus small government. If is was, then why vote for Republicans who have created big government? Deficit spending has been greatest during Republican administrations, as well as infringement on privacy (e.g., The Patriot Act, warrant-less wiretaps, Terri Schivo, etc.).

Also, we still have Bush's tax cuts for the top 2% of wealth (those with earnings of a quarter million or more), and we are still in the toilet. So how can Republicans argue to extend these tax cuts? How can they argue that tax cuts don't have to be paid for, or don't contribute to the deficit? Only the willfully ignorant will fall for this.

The debate is about stupid versus smart government.

In addition, I keep hearing how the economy isn't recovering because businesses are worried about taxes and health care costs. That is total BS. From another article today:

"The latest economic data out this week confirmed a gloomier forecast issued by the Federal Reserve Tuesday after its regular rate-setting meeting. That has renewed fears of a so-called “double-dip” recession that are weighing on investors, spooking consumers and slowing businesses from hiring."

So we come full circle to economic uncertainty regarding housing, spending, and things that have nothing to do with taxes and health care. Let's hope the majority of voters use the Rule of Reason and vote for Dems in November.

JoAnna,

So much for what you know about the Auto Industry.

The government is in the business of picking winners and losers, and that is a poor way to run a country. If GM folded, the other car manufacturers, like Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc., would have picked up the market that GM occupied. So now GM is being fed billions in government bailout money, and now they show a "profit". Like I said, lets see the books, the quarterly report, or any report, and see how the "profit" matches up with the expenses, ie., the bailout.

Yes I do work in the auto industry and many of the vendors that have Toyota, Honda and Ford for clients also have GM as one. Many of those vendors were asked by Toyota, Honda and Ford how what percentage of their business is with GM. Why you might ask? Well they would have been in deep doo-doo if GM folded. Again why you might ask? Well if the vendor isn't profitable they go out of business and that would have caused plant closures not just here but abroad.

BTW A total collapse at GM would have devastated all of the small businesses around them, whole regions, towns etc. in other words our whole country would have felt the repercussions.

Oh and I forgot to mention Ford just recently was in the news about borrowing money from the US and other world governments to pay off the loans that they currently have with private investors to try and re-establish their investment-grade credit rating.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748703589404575417491742322262.html

Stick to something you know... ignorance!

Yellowdog-Mark D

JoAnna

"Having politicians point the finger of blame at businesses for cheap political points is not the best policy."

I agree, sensible politicians should be working together. I disagree with your ideas that there is too much government regulation and taxation on business. Remember in my opinion a market based economy with limited regulations in place caused most of these problems. But thanks for your thoughts

The sub-prime mortgage issue was the one thing no one was keeping an eye on. I'd be a little careful trying to broaden the brush of blame from that point.

Excellent point wakeup and one that's commonly overlooked. The "bail out" wasn't just about saving 2 companies, it was about saving an INDUSTRY. Hundreds of companies that employ at least 1 million people. How much happier would we be with an additional million unemployed?

Interesting that people who commonly claim that Liberals have disdain for profits suddenly put the word in quotes when they want to dismiss profit as an important part of the argument.

Sorry wake - a badly run company is just that, a badly run company. Having the US government step in and not just help it, but OWN it, does not help anyone, at least not in the long run. The government cannot subsidize failure and expect anything good to come out of it. We see the same thing going on with the feds intervention into state governments. The feds dumped hundreds of billions to the states last year with the idea that it would carry them through until this year when the economy picked up and their tax revenues increased, and they reformed and right-sized their governments. Neither happened, and now the feds are having to do it again.

I'm certain the workers of GM and GM vendors love having federal dollars coming into their pockets. Sooner or later, or maybe not, they have to compete with other companies like Ford, Honda, and Toyota, companies that are managed well and have made the tough choices to get to being successful. All this while GM, just like state governments, will remain dependent on federal dollars to bail them out and not doing the things necessary to make them a successful company.

Are you completely detached from reality. The economic collapse in this country was caused by the fiscally irresponsible republican party. And now all you do is blame Obama for your stupidity and incompetence while proposing the exact policies that caused this problem.

republicans are the biggest gang of hypocrites on the planet. And the republican base is the most gullible gang in existence. You will be surprised in November when most of your Extreme Right Wing Nut Job candidates are passed over for Democrats who have common sense and integrity. Characteristics that are totally absent from the republican ranks

Dennis, you really have to take economics 101 again. A growth rate of 1% such as we had in the 2nd quarter is not growth in any economice forecast or analysis. Your growth rate has to eclipse the listed inflation rate by at least 1% to be showing any growth. We will have to see economic growth of at least a 4% rate to see any significant employment upturn at this point. The only media which has been the least part accurate on economic news is the Wall Street Journal. They have termed what we have seen over the last six months as economic stagnation. The numbers over the last two months seem to initially indicate a possible turn back into recession. The reason the Great Depression lasted over 10 years was the constant meddling of FDR and the Democratic Congress. FDR tried to spend the US out of depression with massive government programs. To get the money for these programs he taxed business. This caused stagnation in the private economy. Exactly what we are doing now. We should learn from the lesson of the 1930's. Because we are repeating it now. FDR had higher unemployment in 1940 than he did in 1932 when he took office.

So, Joe in Albany, you're saying all that stimulus cash was for a clunker?

See, JoAnna's all about profits until GM starts making a profit, then she pretends it didn't happen.

Yes GM posted a profit. That is all good.

Do you know why GM posted a profit?

Manipulation of numbers.

Last Year GM held 17.5 percent of the market the 2nd Quarter of 2009. Also had extremely high worldwide sales.

This quarter (2nd Quarter of 2010) GM held 15.4% of the American Market, while their foreign sells decreased by 3% worldwide.

So last year during this same quarter GM posted a $3.9B loss, yet this quarter posts a $33B profit in a year where they have lost sales numbers?

GM creditors and secured bindholders were thrown under the bus when the Government threatened to let GM fail if they did not play ball.

So ask yourself how a company managed to earn $42.9 billion over last years quarter?

I

Joe "hearts" Bush.

Demitrix,

So what you are saying is that the auditing company committed accounting fraud by signing off on cooked books just like Arthur Andersen did for Enron. Right?

If you have any proof you will be famous.

The Republican trickle down economics that gave more money to the rich, encouraged outsourcing, driving down wages, are the cause of this problem. This has been decades in the makiing. Deregulation of everything is also the cause. We trusted Govt to protect us before Reagen then we bought into the something for nothing mentality. Guess what there is a price to pay. Also, anyone not employed have no reason to complain. Our country used to care about our fellow man then religion started also being corrupted telling people they were on their own. What happened to caring for our fellow man. We bought into this myth and we are to blame.

I guess one thing we independents learned from this past election is to never entrust the Socialist party with control of this great country.

you're a moron. you can intellectually masterbate it all you want but the facts are this: Ronald reagan is resposible for the greatest tax increase on middle class and working class families while giving the rich an unprecidented tax cut. Ronald Reagan also grew the gov't by almost a third when the new reciepts for the tax increase were spend on surplus budgetary items whithout having to accouont for it (can you say deficet spending) and as a result grew the national debt from about 2 trillion dollars to almost 10 trillion. george bush sr took a beating because of his "no new taxes " statement but ultimatly HAD to back track on those statements because reagan (and greenspan) mucked the economy up. This is where the saying "deficets dont matter" comes from. then you have the inept decider (w redux) who again, cut taxes for the richest amerikkkans while going to war (umm 2 wars) all on borrowed money. our national debt went from around 9 trillion ( yes you maybe wondering why earlier i said 10 tril, clinton paid some of the debt down by doing nothing magical but increasing taxes on the wealthiest amerikkkans a paltry 3%) and dont forget no matter how hard repubs try to rewrite history that on bushs way out the door he gave the banking industry 800billion payola in a bill with no oversight or any accounting...free money. he also grew the government by a third. but somehow repubs support small government. everytime the repubs get power government grows expotentialy. although you argue basded on what?! some poisoned kool-aide that repubs have the answers to our problems? the repubs answers scare me. and so show how bad it is for repubs look now at states that have dem governors and repub governors. the repub state have low education scores, high unemployment bad city services, high poverty , lots of low skill low pay jobs. and in these states the disparity between haves and have nots is out of control. not to imply that dem gov. states are magnificant. all states are suffering, but the repub gov states are in the worst possible shape. yes some southern states have low unemployment realative to say where i live with a dem gov and a dem controled legislature but ummm mcdonalds shouldnt be a career move or popeyes or the local dime discount store. our problems are never going to be fixed because roughly a third of our population lives in this 1950's all white life is great golden age, thats all over with dems and repubs squandered our world wide preeminance. or was our preeminance only because our international competortors didnt exist? germany was leveled, we commited a great humanitarian crime when we dropped bombs on japan (the war relative to japans involvment was over, the treaty papers sat on macarthurs desk for a week unsigned so we could carry out those grisly experiments) so there was no honda or anything else. made in usa and usa number one was true because everybody else industrial capacity was gone. the only reason dems are known as the tax and spend party is because primative retilians minds (or republican which ever you prefer) can not carry out abstarct thought and deductive reasoning so two word slogans like tax and spend dems is easy for thier tiny brains to latch on to. and for the record im not a dem and i served 6 the hard way in the usmc 2/2 with the 26th meu in the midninteies and if you know of what i speak than you know you would be a liar to say im a tree hugging latte sipping french speaking liberal pansy. but i am a socialist somethng that makes me laugh when repubs try to vall harry reid or nancy pelosi or obama for that matter because you idiots know not of what you speak. none of those people and with the exception of one (barry sanders i-vt) no one in congress lower or upper house is a socialist. they are all millionaries that first and formeost take care of themselves and if you happen to be one of the few lucky rich ..well by extention that means your intrests are taken care of too, why do you think bill clinton a democrat and an economist still signed NAFTA, GTA, WTO ... when he KNEW he was going to gut the amerikkkan middle class. because it wasnt going to hurt him and he thought that by giving corp amerikkkan its dream wish that he could earn the dems some corp amerikkka love (can you say DLC)........stupid!

Tabasko,

I agree with most of the things in your post. We disagree in the international trade area.

I like international trade, free trade and international trade agreements.

its a lot easier to keep the car on the road then it is to fix it once its smashed up in the ditch... the repubs couldn't handle keeping it on the road and now you think they're the ones that can fix it?

John is that bthe bucks Bush borrowed from china to fight a war we should have fought? From the time bush left office the repubs just said fine we wont do a thing to help and that way we can blame them for this mess. The media and i mean all of it not just murdock and his pony show try and start things just for ratings...where murdock has a plan, both here and in europe with big sky network to turn this whole mess into republicans to ruin this world

testing

Test 2

Wow-

Over 40% of First Readers believe that Democrats will lose the House in November.

When you consider what the "base" of First Read is, that's revealing.

I guess that reality can rear its ugly head anywhere...

Even here at First Read.

P.S.- Keith Olbermann is a vicious misanthrope...I won't say he's a misogynist, since a misanthrope doesn't restrict his hatred of humanity to women.

Keith really doesn't like women, though...

The only problem is that the woman who GQ says was kidnapped has come out since the article and said she was never kidnapped. It was a college prank which she was in on. However, we never saw that fact on Olberman or MSNBC website because it didn't fit their story. In fact, she said NBC called her and she straighten out the story. But NBC did not run it. Guess they are the true "Fair and Balanced" network

Olberman is a hack without an ounce of media talent and is a detriment to the progressive cause.

Presently, with over 8250 people voting, 50% do not think that the Repubs will take back the House, VS 42% that do. The 8% undecided will likely be split evenly after labor Day which means that some ~54% of the populace sampled are against the Repubs.

This does NOT look good for the Repubs at this point, as the numbers clearly show!

Stealth Tea Party Candidates:

Rand Paul and Sharron Angle are caught on camera running from reporters. The evidently don’t want to answer general media questions. It’s a typical GOP strategy. Sarah Palin did not take media questions for weeks after she was selected by candidate McCain. In fact, to this day she still shies away from taking direct questions.

In the last two weeks I’ve noticed a new breed of ads. First thing, is there is absolutely no reference to political party. That seemed odd so I watched closer. The second observation was the focus of the ad was on being a war veteran, being a good neighbor, or being an upright citizen in the community. OK, that’s good…I think. Then it was time to listen to code words.

Bingo!! The underlying messages were: Cutting taxes, reducing the national debt, reject health care, shake up Washington, give the country back to the people. All tea party code words.

The ad started being reasonable and rational. It could fool a lot of people, but close examination revealed another candidate just like Rand Paul or Sharron Angle.

Feisty, Hope you don't mind my tagging along.

Anytime Professor... ;0)

Fiesty,

Great Post for Friday. The right is now going after the constitution. I copied just a piece of an article that crossed my desk. The whole article is on the web.

Since President Obama took office, Republicans have shrouded their agenda of opposition by wrapping it in the flag and the Constitution. Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) even went so far as to label her radical anti-government views “constitutional conservatism.” Yet, for all of their constitutional pablum, the GOP’s agenda is nothing less than a direct assault on America’s founding document. Time and time again, Republicans have called for basic constitutional freedoms and fundamental aspects of our constitutional government to be repealed either by amendment or by activist judges:

REPEALING CITIZENSHIP: Numerous GOP lawmakers, including their Senate leader and the most-recent Republican candidate for president, are lining up behind a “review” of the 14th Amendment’s grant of citizenship to virtually all persons born within the United States. Such a proposal literally revives the vision of citizenship articulated by the Supreme Court’s infamous pro-slavery decision in Dred Scott v. Sanford. It has no place in the twenty-first century.

REPEALING CONGRESS’ POWER TO REGULATE THE ECONOMY: The Constitution’s “Commerce Clause” gives national leaders broad authority to regulate the national economy, but much of the GOP has embraced “tentherism,” the belief that this power is small enough to be drowned in a bathtub. The most famous example of tentherism is the ubiquitous frivolous lawsuits claiming that health reform is unconstitutional, but these lawsuits are part of a much greater effort. In his brief challenging health reform, Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli claims that Congress is allowed to regulate “commerce on one hand” but not “manufacturing or agriculture.” Cuccinelli’s discredited vision of the Constitution was actually implemented in the late 19th and early 20th century, and it would strike down everything from child labor laws to the federal ban on whites-only lunch counters

As the article progresses it gets worst.

Feisty, your ignorance obviously has no bounds.

Think back over the last 40 years with the Republican being in ‘power’ the majority of that time…’

Since 1970, Republicans have had 26 years of control the executive branch (have someone explain to you what the executive branch is F). The Democrats have controlled the House for 28 of those years, and have controlled the Senate for 25 of those years.

You do know what a "majority" is, don't you F?

We'll all just relax now and wait for your idiotic reply.

Navy Disabled: "it gets worst."

Things are going to get a lot more "worst" for you "progressives" Disabled. A lot!

Agreed Retired...

The more I read the rantings of the right wing loons the MORE convinced I am that they have NOTHING to offer Americans other than the we MUST defeat President Obama at ALL costs!

And I can't help but think a lot of it has to do with because there's a BLACK man sitting in the WHITE house!

For instance WHY didn't they propose to repeal the 14th Amendment under Bush & the Dick?

Why only NOW has this become a hot button issue?

Rightie raving to commence in 3...2...1... lol

Hey, Ron? Since when are any of the 'code words' evil?

You don't get it. You just don't get it. Too bad-the majority of the country gets it.

On the other hand,I saw Tim Kaine on television this morning, talking about how they are now sending e-mails to their professionals, with the talking points of the week. These go to their posters and letter-to-the-editor writers,as well as to those who knock on doors, etc.

I guess you and Nash will have some new and interesting talking points in the weeks to come. Here's a hint: the 'think for yourself' meme is an EPIC FAIL. People are already doing that-that's why Obama's polls are in freefall.

NoJo... if you're out there...can you do me a favor hon?

Our large mouth a@@ is in desperate need of a valium this morning - would you be so kind to share?

Good on the both of you. Onward and upward and a good morning to all. I do hope that all of our friends and families out there especially in the Mid West are staying safe and well with all the bad weather that's flashing around. I really appreciate you'll folks taking some of the edge off these storms for us in the East although I know it's making it tough on you. I'd like to remind folks especially in the extreme heat waves that we seem to be seeing a lot this season to check on your neighbors( especially the elderly) and make sure that they have a cool place to catch a little relief in.

No Jo:

Never said or implied Code words were evil. Code words tell us something about the person using those words. Progressives may use words like moving the country forward. It says something about what we believe. Nothing evid there.

So give up your twisted pretzel logic.

"The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety." Eric Sevareid.

Sevareid died in 1992, but he was speaking about what he saw happening in politics. Both parties can and does use fear but democrats do not use cultural issues and anti-government to do so. It started with Reagan when he demonized government and unions making them something to fear, he previously demonized social security, then medicare as something to fear; he added the social and cultural wars although less openly. Roger Ayles (sp) now with FOX was part of Bush 41's team to push fear more; Gingrich furthered the cause, followed by Bush 43, Cheney and Karl Rove. Each of them continue preaching and teaching anxiety to those are still willing to listen. FDR had it right, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

USNavy: Just a followup on the point you make on the 14th Amendment:

"REPEALING CITIZENSHIP: Numerous GOP lawmakers, including their Senate leader and the most-recent Republican candidate for president, are lining up behind a “review” of the 14th Amendment’s grant of citizenship to virtually all persons born within the United States. Such a proposal literally revives the vision of citizenship articulated by the Supreme Court’s infamous pro-slavery decision in Dred Scott v. Sanford. It has no place in the twenty-first century."

This is not new. In 2003, Mark Foley proposed the following amendment to the Constitution:

108th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. J. RES. 44

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to provide that no person born in the United States will be a United States citizen unless a parent is a United States citizen, or is lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States, at the time of the birth.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

March 31, 2003

Mr. FOLEY (for himself, Mr. JONES of North Carolina, Mr. BALLENGER, Ms. GINNY BROWN-WAITE of Florida, Mr. GOODE, Mr. DOOLITTLE, Mr. SHAYS, Mr. BEREUTER, Mr. DEAL of Georgia, and Mr. NORWOOD) introduced the following joint resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

JOINT RESOLUTION

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to provide that no person born in the United States will be a United States citizen unless a parent is a United States citizen, or is lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States, at the time of the birth.

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein), That the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years after the date of its submission for ratification:

Article --

‘SECTION 1. No person born in the United States after the date of the ratification of this article shall be a citizen of the United States, or of any State, on account of birth in the United States unless the mother or father of the person is a citizen of the United States, or is lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States, at the time of the birth.

‘SECTION 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Needless to say, this was not approved in 2003 and I don't think the idea will gain any real support this time around. Notice that all the 2003 bill sponsors are from the South.

Jody: Eric Sevareid was one of my most favorite commentators. He was right up there with Walther Cronkite. He was neither republican or democrat, he just described the world as he saw it. Thanks for the memories. (I know...Bob Hope.)

Feisty, I have to say, I have heard the bad news about your very good friend drive-by who confessed yesterday:

drive-by-observer:

Too late. I'm already addicted to Oxycontin and bulls*it. But I do appreciate your trying to warn me...

I didn't know about this and I'm so sorry to hear this news. Addiction to Oxycontin is a really difficult issue to deal with. F, I hope your friend and his family are coping well, and I'm certain they are supportive of his management of that addiction.

The bs addiction is another matter. That one is real strange. What does your friend do F, roll in it? Inject it? Snort it? Smoke it? Ingest it? You must know something about this. Lets all just hope he's getting the help he needs to kick that addiction. Godspeed to you drive-thru.

Please pass my best wishes along to him F. Thank you.

The Deadhead: And I can't help but think a lot of it has to do with because there's a BLACK man sitting in the WHITE house!

Q: How do you know when a liberal has lost an argument with a conservative?

A: The liberal starts screeching "RACISM"!

And that explains why we're hearing so much more of that lately from the Libs.

And there you go.....BAM....The Race Card!!! See Navy, we just had this discussion yesterday. No where on these post I've seen the below comment. When pinned in a corner the RACE CARD is whipped out. Now if you agree than you're just as bad as Fiesty. That comment along loses all creditability. When in doubt, whip it out!!!!

"And I can't help but think a lot of it has to do with because there's a BLACK man sitting in the WHITE house!"

Good one Fiesty, I'm sure you will justify this some how. Truly amazing....................

Jo,

I guess you're sick of the race Card too..................

No Joe...does the republican party not issue talking points and memos to their "professionals" for the same purpose?

FOX is notorious for using the republican daily memos for their day's efforts, they do not report the news, they report the news from the GOP daily memo perspective.

Both parties do this--it is called politics to elect their candidates, staying on message, repeating the same information to get the point to voters, and campaign offices.

Did I call it or WHAT?

The raving begins about mentioning the 'Black Man' in the 'White House'...

However ,conspicuously missing was the answer to my question...

Oh boy... you can set your watches to these clowns...

Another day... another distraction...

Feisty,

I hear you. I am trying to not believe that race is an issue, but when I see and read what is out there from the right and the tea baggers I really have to wonder. If it is so important to the right now, where the he!! were they when Bush was on the throne?

Same political rhetoric as usual. Just look at McCain, was for doing something about Immigration, then he was not, then he was, now he is not, even said he would not work with the dems.

Rachael had a great skit on Tax Cuts last night. Even the richest 2% under the Obama plan would still get a tax refund. It just will not be the $100,000 they got from Bush, I think she said a person making 1Mil wouldstill get over $6,000.

It is just wacky out there.

Joanna = blah blah blah random quotes taken out of context blah blah blah

Pretzel Logic sums it up beautifully. It makes me happy to know your views of the world are being bred out of our society. Soon your kind will be extinct. :^)

Good Morning, JoAnna! So nice to see you're on the board this early. Say, isn't it refreshing to have a president in charge that actually cares about REAL, good, honest, AMERICANS like you, me, and all the others that post here?

'S wonderful, you do have to admit.

JoAnnaSmith1: We'll all just relax now and wait for your (Feisty Deadheads) idiotic reply.

That's what we all like about you Deadhead, you are consistent, and you do not disappoint.

Let's hear some more moronic gems from you Dead! You're on a roll today!!

Gail,

Thanks for the great info. I agree that these new arguments about changing or repealing the constituion is nonsense, but the right is running out of ideas.

Just look at the nonsense from the usual above you.

They are not going to happen.

Feisty, you constantly accuse others who disagree with your ideas of spreading fear, hate. Yet, below, you throw out your ragged, torn, tired old race card. You know the sad thing is, there's racism out there to be addressed. But, because people like you have played this crap, nobody's going listen anymore when they really should. Shame on you for spreading hate.

You know Retired…

The depressing thing is, when then Senator Obama announced his candidacy my husband said to me that this country was NOT ready for a black President.

I said bullsh!t that bigotry and racism were on there way to extinction as this was 2008.

Do you know how many times I’ve heard ‘I told you so’ over the past 20 months… ?

PS: Wonder why no one has answered my original question yet? lol

JoAnnaSmith1: "We'll all just relax now and wait for your idiotic reply."

Perhaps this isn't idiotic enough for you, but I would just point out when those Southern seats were held by Democrats, they were held by what we called rightwing conservative Democrats. The Southern conservatives have since turned Republican. The change in the make up of the Republican party makes it difficult to compare party control of Congress over the years.

Today's Blue Dog Democrats are yesterday's moderates in the Democratic Party and yesterday's moderate Republicans....don't exist anymore. This is the major why bipartisanship is less likely in this era, more's the pity.

You know that is my big "ism," Feisty. I ran across this article by Professor Melissa Harris-Lacewell yesterday. Think it's worth a reprint here.

Melissa Harris-Lacewell: You've Got to Be Carefully Taught

Source: The Nation (6-9-10)

[Melissa Harris-Lacewell, an associate professor of politics and African-American studies at Princeton University, is completing her latest book, Sister Citizen: A Text for Colored Girls Who've Considered Politics When Being Strong Isn't Enough. She is a contributor to MSNBC.]

I spent Memorial Day in New Orleans, where I watched a group of citizens lay a wreath at the foot of a statue of Jefferson Davis. It was a jarring reminder of how the South understands American history. Memorial Day was founded after the Civil War to honor Union soldiers. When Southerners choose to memorialize Confederate leaders, it is an act of subversive historical revision and an indication of the unresolved political and cultural anxieties that stir just below the surface of the "New South."

The white New Orleanians paying their respects to Davis made me nervous. Few things disgusted Confederates more than property-owning women, free blacks and evidence of miscegenation. I am all of these, so I feel the very legitimacy of my citizenship is challenged by their nostalgia. But I noticed that those gathered at the monument appeared to be mostly senior citizens. In contrast, young New Orleanians were hanging out in integrated groups in the park, listening to music, drinking beer and worrying about how the impending hurricane season would affect the BP oil disaster....

Young Americans are significantly different from their older counterparts. At the end of the Clinton administration a majority of young Americans strongly supported multicultural education and believed that the government should ensure integrated schools and workplaces. In the year George W. Bush was re-elected, an overwhelming majority of young Americans believed gay men and lesbians should have equal protection in housing and employment and should be protected under hate crimes legislation. Barack Obama garnered two of every three votes cast by people under 30. Across parties, ideologies, regions and religions, young people are less likely to subscribe to racial stereotypes, more likely to support legal equality for gay Americans and more likely to believe tolerance is an important ideal. These enduring generational trends have prompted some observers to question the long-term viability of the GOP—which seems to be growing older but not grander....

Social conservatives shudder with apocalyptic anxiety about these generational trends. They understand that the best defense against this frightening, changing world is to wrest control of the historical narrative. To retake the country, they must first reshape young people's reality by revising the meaning of their daily lives. They must make traitors into heroes, erase the contributions of marginal groups, decry self-knowledge as sedition and reinforce fear of those who are different. I'm reminded of the lyrics of a song in South Pacific, Rodgers and Hammerstein's controversial 1949 musical:

"You've got to be taught to hate and fear,

You've got to be taught from year to year,

It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear—

You've got to be carefully taught."

Arizona and Texas policy-makers seem to be using the lyrics as a guide to curriculum development, but they may find that the world has already moved beyond their fearful grasp.

ahh man am I glad that the majority of the voting public arent political hacks like thoes that seem to flock to 1st Thoughts.

Very very little of what is above me is actually ON TOPIC, let alone left and right wing talking points.

Was going to come here and throw up some facts from polls released this week showing how the republicans have a very good chance of taking everything back, including a shot at the Senate but I can see that it will be lost in the meaningless dribble I see above.

To all the lefties above me.. You want to be taken seriously?? Stop with the "tea bagger" comments for one. It doesnt really matter IF they agree with you or not on their political views, everyone is entilted to their opinions. Using that term takes a post that might have some meaning and turns it into nothing, and puts you in the same boat as the fools spouting off from the far fringes of each party.

Back in my younger years in debate class the teacher once said something that has stuck with me all these years... The 1st sign you have lost your arguement is when you start attacking the person, and not the message. Some people here seem to have either not learned that, or have forgotten.

LOL, WOW........Race is NOT the ISSUE, but when a Liberal is frustrated and can only say this below, it becomes one.

"And I can't help but think a lot of it has to do with because there's a BLACK man sitting in the WHITE house!"

You know Navy, I read your post and you're a follower. I have to ask you, what did you do in the Navy? Were you a yes man? Reason why I say this is due to the fact you just agreed to a Race Baiter that's trying to blame RACISM to the problems Obama is having.

You're correct Fiesty, it was conspicuously, why was it? I'm thinking because you want to be a race baiter. Either 1. See if someone would bite and say something about race and then you Liberals will pounce and say, SEE-SEE that's the reason!! or 2. you want someone to agree with you like Navy. Pitty.................................

I meant to say, the major reason why the appearance of bipartisanship is less likely in this era is that Democrats have lost those Southern conservatives and Republicans have lost their moderate arm. Party members are now less likely to be seen crossing the aisle. (It's amazing to me how much flack Snowe and Collins got for what little cooperation they showed in crafting the healthcare bill. Snowe and Collins, who are old fashjioned Republicans, are routinely called RINOS in the national press.)

Fiesty,

I don't think the 14th Amenment sould be replealed to answer your question. The boarders need to be sealed, but it's amazing that 8% of the Babies born are from Illegals, but you probably think that's ok. Pitty to think if someone disagrees with you, you call them "righties".

You're correct Fiesty, it was conspicuously, why was it? I'm thinking because you want to be a race baiter

Now THAT Paul.... is PRICELESS...

I'm seeing a pattern here that when the victims of stupidity are questioned to defend their convictions they either;

A.) IGNORE you

B.) Claim they don't answer 'ridiculous' questions or

C.) See the above (which happens to be my all time favorite so far)

I will give them a 'D' for creativity though!

Yet this same crowd is always demanding you answer their questions and provide back up...also too... lmao....

Looks like the large mouth a@@ now has some company as 'Flounder' has joined her in the cess pool!

Paul -Florida:

You are an irrevalent piece of crap. You can pitty me all you want, I have nothing but contempt for you.

Have a good day.

no joe,

As always, I am flattered to be on your mind yet again. Since I know you specialize in hiding your affection for someone under a bevy of over-the-top attacks, I'll simply say "I love you too!"

Have an awesome weekend!

P.S. It makes my day that you think that "thinking for yourself" is a meme! So much for the "average joe" act huh? Cynicism and paranoia is not a good mix. . . sometimes things really are just as simple as they appear. :o)

Shout Out Gail... Thanks for the great article...it's a 'keeper' ;0)

Check out the live poll results attached to this FR thread.

In answer to the question, "Will Republicans win enough seats in November to take back the House?" Out of 751 respondents,

51% say "no"

38% say "yes"

11% say "ask me after September."

Interesting so far...let's see how the results play out as the day goes on.

Jeremy, sorry you got distracted by the free-flowing conversation that's the norm around here. I would like for you to "throw up your facts" about how Republicans are going to take it all back in November.

Navy,

LOL, and then comes the name calling...............it's OK to be a follower Navy, there's those who Lead and those who follow and yes Navy I do Pitty you.......

Fiesty,

I have to say you're a good leader. Maybe you can tell Navy the definition of Leadership is.........ah that was a little harsh...

As for your ABCs, can't see how that relates to me since I've answered your questions. I can't expect for you to answer with facts, you don't have any. But thank you for making me your favorite, I won't disappoint. I too have a "Top 10" for Fiesty quotes/rants. Stay tune......LOL

Also have a great Weekend Fiesty, I truly mean that.............................even you Shipmate..............off the Starbucks and PF Chans.......................

Paul-Florida

Fiesty,

I don't think the 14th Amenment sould be replealed to answer your question. The boarders need to be sealed, but it's amazing that 8% of the Babies born are from Illegals, but you probably think that's ok. Pitty to think if someone disagrees with you, you call them "righties

Careful Paul, now you're bringing in things like math and facts, and the Deadhead does not understand either. You really have to dumb it down if you want to attempt to get it through her thick skull.

Does anyone else have the feeling that the majority of the victims of stupidity crowd had/has NO idea what was in the 14th Amendment until the party of pale male & stale came up with this 'hair-brain' scheme?

Why oh Why can't they answer a simple questions?

Why wasn't this brought up under Bush & the Dick if border security is so damn important?

Anyone?

PS: Paul- Oh.. Oh... I can't wait... who knows you might be able to squeek into my #1 fan spot! ;0)

So, ron, by their code words you shall know them?

Okay-let's compare: low taxes, reduce the deficit, increase job creation, repeal HCR.

Hopeful change.

Yeah-now I know why the republicans are up, and the dems are down.

And,Nash? I hope this isn't another 'tactic' to get me off the board. See, I really do like YOU, but not your politics.

Think I'd forget your kindness about the princess? I can tell you, I never forget.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power,

The world will know peace." -Jimi Hendrix

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really love this quote Feisty . . . never heard it before but it is perfect.

Simple question:

Why do so many conservative posters feel that it is it taboo to talk about race?

Why is any conversation about race, no matter the context, always framed in a negative light or as "the race card"?

If someone asks the question: "Does having a black man in the White House bother you?", why can't you just say "yes" or "no"?

If having a black man in the White House does bother you, does that mean you are a racist?

Having my daughter going to middle school bothers me, does that mean I am anti-middle school?

No, it means it is different than what I became comfortable with, and I am having to adjust to it.

Of course, it may be that having a black President does not effect you at all, in which case you could just answer no or ignore the question and move on.

But something about the very concept of discussing race just triggers the very worst in folks.

Last thought:

You know that feeling that alot of conservatives get when folks imply they are racist because they belong to the tea party movement?

That is the same feeling black folks get when you imply that we do not think for ourselves, are not hard workers, and live as leeches off the government.

It is the feeling of folks making assumptions about you when they don't know you. . . not a good feeling, huh?

So maybe, instead of getting your collective backs up everytime someone brings up race, you could just answer the question and stop ASSUMING that you know something about the person asking the question that you don't know.

Or if the phrasing of the question bothers you, maybe you could simply explain why.

Why is that so hard?

no joe,

Pretty princesses is something that we will always agree on . . . no doubt! :o)

P.S. I never want you to leave no joe . . . but an occasional smile or positive outlook on something would be a nice touch . . . I mean, to hear you tell it, the sun stopped rising in the East on the day President Obama was elected . . . it can't be that bad . . . seriously! lol

Thanks Nash!

You ask the tough questions with your usual calm & composed demeanor (guess that's why we don't call you Feisty Nashville Fan... right)? lol

Agreed on NoJo... I asked her the same thing last week under 'The Week Ahead'? She's my favorite 'cat lady' not to mention an awesome Grama.

Now if we could just get her to lighten up once and awhile...

What do you think NoJo?

Gail,

If this is Free flowing conversation I think you need to learn how to have a grown up conversation. This is nothing more then one group of people attacking another because they believe in something else. you dont have to look any farther then this blog to see what is wrong with this country. Nobody respects anyone elses opinions, If they disagree they attack and name call with the zeel of a seasoned congress person of 40 years.

As for why the republicans have a shot at winning. You need to look no farther then the Independent vote. the right will always vote for the right, and the left will vote for the left. In 2000 and 2004 the independent vote went to Bush. In 2008 68 percent of thoes independants voted for Obama. Obamas support per both Gallop and CNN polls in the Independent vote is down to sub 40 percent.

If you care to admit it or not, come November it will be a resolution on Obamas policies. ( just like all Midterm elections are) Obamas support in the Black community is the same as it was in 2008, He is slipping in the Latino vote ( depending on what poll you use so not too sure about this one ), and has droped like a stone in the independent vote.

Congress has a RECORD low for approval rate right now. the Independent voters are moving away from the Dem ticket. Obama is doing the exact same thing that Bush did. Very unpopular policies, spending like a drunk sailor, and not listening to the people. A lot of people are tired of that and will speak up with their vote come November.

Thats why republicans have a chance. Not my opinion, just facts.

Jeremy,

I appreciate you outlining the reasons why you think Republicans have a chance in November. I agree, it's all about the Independents; and yes, Democrats have some work to do to earn their votes again. However, I have faith in the common sense of Americans. I tend to think that if Americans reach down deep in their psyches, think through what has happened over the past decade to bring us to where we are today, and who is best equipped to lead us through this mess, they will come back to President Obama and the Democrats.

The extreme wing of the Republican Party, whose agenda is to drive President Obama into the ground and ensure that his presidency is a failure, are grabbing airtime and attention. The anger, fear and hatred that drives this wing cannot sustain itself. It will crumble in on itself in time. I believe that thinking Independents will vote with common sense. They are just as independent of this fear-mongering as they are of any of the hyperbole that Democrats offer.

As for me being able to hold an intelligent conversation, I think you will find that I am one of the few on First Read that doesn't toss insults and "gotcha" comments. If you sift through the attacks on First Read, you will find some who truly want to have intelligent discourse.

Gail, TN

Paul sounds like you hit a nerve. The truth really does hurt.

I admire yours and Joanna's tenacity. But after a while you must get tired of arguing with idiots. You will never change their opinions because they haven't a clue about the outside world. They never leave First Dweebs and swallow every ounce of BS they pump out.

Does anyone else have the feeling that the majority of the victims of stupidity crowd had/has NO idea what was in the 14th Amendment until the party of pale male & stale came up with this 'hair-brain' scheme?

Why oh Why can't they answer a simple questions?

Why wasn't this brought up under Bush & the Dick if border security is so damn important?

Anyone?

Well it's two hours later and still NO answer to my question... lol

Lot's of 'carping' goin on but no answer... Leaves me to believe it's because they DON'T have one!

Gail,

I think Obama and congress are doing enough to ensure that his presidency is a complete failure which is also why independents are not going to vote for him or other dems in up comming elections. They are passing things that the majority of people do not agree with. Also what got us into this mess (spending money we dont have) will not get us out of it. It seems inconceivable that in our current situation we are spending soooooooo much money with minimal to no results. If Bush got us into this mess by spending too much and that was wrong, then please tell me why it is ok with you that Obama is spending more than bush and driving up debt? dont we want to drive the debt down?

It would be easier to believe that it's a racial issue if there were some evidence. http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=obama%2Bmonkey&wrapid=tlif12817258184172&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

Maybe the fact of a black man in the White House even suggests a way to pander to racists to gain votes. http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=a_new_southern_strategy

Weird that it would happen now when it's never been done before. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/13/AR2005071302342.html

Motojoe:

Who said it's OK with me?

President Obama has been pushing spending to try and jolt the economy into recovery. Of course we want to drive the debt down, but we can't do that until our economy is back on an even keel. Imagine if we turned our backs on all the millions who are unemployed right now...how would having millions of hungry, homeless, angry men, women and children help build back the economy? You have to spend what it takes to keep people clothed, fed and with shelter over their heads. Once we have truly stabilized, when businesses are hiring again, when people are able to spend money and when tax revenue is up, then we can turn our attention to the national debt. And by the way, the main culprit that is increasing our national debt isn't defense spending or health care or any of the buzz words we all hear...it's the INTEREST that's killing us.

The problem with playing the race card is that it has been used so often by the Democratic Party that the account is overdrawn. Heard a Democratic operative state when the vote in Missouri showed that 71% of those in the election rejected the Health Care bill that most of these people are rascist. If you trot out rascism every time someone disagrees with Obama. The charge means nothing. After all those independents who have turned against Obama are the ones who elected the first black president. So they are all of the sudden "rascist"! So the Republicans are rascist even though they have a record number of black candidates. But if it isn't rascism, then Democrats are stuck with the fact that a large majority of Americans have rejected their policies and the course the Democrats have the country on. Even though this is exactly what the polls are saying.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power,

The world will know peace" Jimi Hendrix

If this past week here @ FR is any indication of how ‘blistering’ things are going to get between now and November – I want to take a moment to make this observation;

Think back over the last 40 years with the Republican being in ‘power’ the majority of that time…’

The Republicans play at all cost – no holes barred strategy to win an election and therefore gain power. The predicament lies in that once they achieve it – they don’t govern they RULE!

You do realize that the Republican's have not held "Power" for 40 years. You do realize that the Republican's only had majority in Congress in the last 40 years from 1994 -2006 (except 2001-2002).

The Republicans have also never had Super-Majority which the Democrats have had twice (President's Carter & President Obama)..

Please tell me where 30 years versus 10 years equals 40 years of domination.

Remember while under Reagan he never had a Congressional Majority.

Fiesty,

Well the fact that some people work during the day, I'll give you my opinion on that. Just like the first Bush, Clinton, and Bush it probably wasn't an issue. I can't recall it being an issue, do you? But I think when you have a city that ranks #1 in kidnapping in the world, ya it's an issue. The problem with America, we are re-active people not pro-active, a knee jerk reaction.

"Well it's two hours later and still NO answer to my question... lol"

Nash and Bob,

I'm very senitive about the race issue. I'm sick of it being used as a weapon or tool or an excuse. Now you have this DR. Loura spewing out this BS. I haven't heard the tapes, except from the ED Show. That's one side of the story, but people are too easy to judge ie....The Duke LaCrosse Team.

Look up the definition of Race Baiting........................

Paul-F,

As if tossing out the term race baiting covers up all of the VERY BLATANT racism that HAS been going on for the last two years?? I have called out a few people for it here at FR, but ONLY when they clearly are using race as their excuse or offering extremely racist terms. No, not all Repubs are racist, but the party DOES have a very long history of using racial tensions as a divider and the Tea party is extremely bad about this, they seem to have forgotten basic decency and feel that they have an excuse to complain now that there is a Black Man in office. The Tea Party is complaining most loudly about things that BUSH did, yet you never heard a peep out of them during his terms, it was only after a Black Man was voted in as the President, by a MAJORITY of Americans fed up with Bush and the Repubs, that the Tea Party came into being and right from the start they used extremely racial signs, words and have shown it repeatedly on their posts. To say that there is no racism there on the right is like saying that Bush was not a total screw up, both are lies!!

You can be as 'sensitive about the race issue' as you want, but to cover up the racism on the part of the Repubs and Tea Party by calling 'race baiting' is a BIG pile of Bull and you will get called on it every time!! Maybe you are sick of it being used as a weapon because you have no way of disputing the truth of the matter!!

You very rarely hear the repug leaders speak out against racists, bigotry and racism. Why is that ???

Sorry B.Honest, don't buy it. For one thing you're pinning me as a TEA Partyer and/or a Repubican. I'm neither of those. My voting card says NPA. Like I said, look up the term, if you don't see it or you just don't want to see it because you know these people is your problem.

But hey, Harry Reid can descibe Obama as a black candidate who could be successful thanks in part to his “light-skinned” appearance and speaking patterns "with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one". So BH, I'll throw the BS Flag at your post and your Ideology...........

"You can be as 'sensitive about the race issue' as you want, but to cover up the racism on the part of the Repubs and Tea Party by calling 'race baiting' is a BIG pile of Bull and you will get called on it every time!! Maybe you are sick of it being used as a weapon because you have no way of disputing the truth of the matter!!"

Paul-F

If you read my post there is nothing there stating that I think you are of either of those parties, I was simply stating the FACT that there is, indeed, rampant racism on the right, no matter WHAT you think. You cannot change facts. Reid got called out big time for his statement too, as can be told by the fact that you know it as well. I am NOT saying that Dems are perfect, never have, they each have their own problems but racism is not an institutionalized tactic with them, unlike on the right.

I applaud the fact that you are neither party, I have often, in the deep past, voted for Repubs myself for State offices and even once for the House if the individual was reasonable, but I find nothing reasonable at all with the current crop of Repubs. The Tea Party is WAY over the top and many of them ARE racist as can be seen by their signs, the words they use and many of their posts, here and on other boards. The Tea Party ONLY Began AFTER the Repubs lost the Presidency to a Black Man. Almost everything that they have been complaining about was actually the actions of BUSH yet they pin it on Pres. Obama instead: if they are so outraged, where were they during Bush's Admin...not a peep! SO, to go and say that the Dems are just race baiting is totally wrong, we are only pointing out the truth of the matter and some, like yourself, just cannot deal with it. I am sorry, but that is the Honest Truth!

Ron and Feisty: In my never to be humble opinion, candidates from either side of the aisle that refuse to sit down to interviews with the media, and avoid the questions that constituents have the right to ask, should be disqualified from running for office. They have an obligation to take voters questions whether that voter is for or against their policies. It demonstrates a lack of courage and conviction that I find abhorrent, and I would not vote for a candidate that did such a thing. The thing that Palin, Angle and Rand have in common is that unless they are facing the amen chorus, they know that their views will not stand up to scrutiny. That should tell the voters in their districts all they need to know about them.

Right on newdayDawning. Spot-on.

Exactly NewDay...

And NONE of them should have pre-screened questions either...

Excellent, newdayDawning.

Anyone who refuses to answer questions or do interviews has no business running for elected office. It is like Mitch McConnell saying the GOP has ideas but they aren't going to tell anyone until, maybe September, because they don't want the media to discuss it (while they're on break). Reality, they don't want to defend or discuss their plans while campaigning at home during the break--voters might actually ask questions and the media and democrats might be able to use their "ideas" against them.

I have an even better idea for all voters. Go to www.faircampaignreform.us and join the drive to pass the two attached constitutional amendments....one for election/campaign financing reform and one for term limits. They would both go a long way towards cleaning up our political mess in this country. And IF your state allows either a "NO VOTE" or "NONE OF THE ABOVE" on the ballot, hit that button or check off that choice. Tell all of the candidates they are not worthy of your support.

Jody,

You're 100% correct........................Does that include the President?

newday and Jody, Very well said! Thank you!

Thanks, wakeup.

Not Me, CU. I'm just a 'deadhead'. And that's a title I can savor. Hell, I really loved Garcia and the gang. Especially liked 'Trudkin'.

'Bout as much as I love our president and his genuie concern for all the Great Americans like you, JoAnna, me, and all the rest that post on here.

Frankly what I am interested in will be the upcoming debates. Or will there be debates. I would love to see Brown vs Whitman; Reid vs Angle just a couple on my mind. Will they only be televised locally? I really don't know - does anyone know whether a lot of these debates will be televised or will there be any debates??

I'm asking because I haven't heard or read one word about upcoming debates.

Thank you!

Of course the Democrats think the Republicans have no new ideas. Their is a whole list of the new ideas on Rep. Paul Ryan's(WI) website. However, NBC refuses to interview him. If you don't put the ideas on the air. You don't have to acknowledge they exist. Then you can keep on saying there are no new ideas from the Republicans.

Elise, SF

Frankly what I am interested in will be the upcoming debates. Or will there be debates. I would love to see Brown vs Whitman; Reid vs Angle just a couple on my mind. Will they only be televised locally? I really don't know - does anyone know whether a lot of these debates will be televised or will there be any debates??

I'm asking because I haven't heard or read one word about upcoming debates.

Thank you!

I myself am a Conservative Fiscal & Social Independent now, I truly dislike both my choices for Senate. One is John McCain who would sell his mother to get elected and the other is JD Hayworth who was allready indicted for the Abramhoff scandal while serving in the house.

I just want my Senator/Congresspeople to go back to actually serving their constituents regardless of party. I may disagree with something, but if everyone else in my District agrees with something I want my representative to vote that way.

I do not want mine to follow party lines, just because they think it will get them re-elected.

I want to go back to the farmer representation where they volunteered to represent their state and were also recquired to still work and provide for their family.

Haa Haa, I voted "No" the Republicans in Congress do not have prehensile tails like the bleached blond monkey girls on Fox and Friends who hole down their jobs with tails and make sure their dresses are 2 inches above their knee.

WOW Bev! Thanks for the laugh this morning... I NEVER thought of it that way! lmao...

Now, Bev- no picking on my cleavage-girls. Fox and Friends is the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue of the TV world, where sissys can still see some T & A when their wives won't let 'em read Playboy. (not a totally fair comparison, though- the girls in PB are attractive, and seem to have at least some brains to boot.)

But Drive-By... last time I checked the girls in Playboy didn't have tails...

Hey... I read it for the articles... lol

Good morning Feisty,

Thanks, after yesterday's hate fest we all needed a laugh! I can see you're fine.

Joanna Smith1

I'm feisty; but unlike you not a deadhead. FYI: I'm proud to be fiesty; you oughta try it once in a while; SHUGGA. you're BOOOOOOOring

.

.

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Drive-By,

The girls on Fox and Friends dp have brain; its just that there in the wrong part of their anatomy. haahhaa

Agree with you Bev... a little levity is needed after yesterday!

Also agree that the large mouth a@@ (who also has a tail) has grown tiresome *yawn*

If she's the best the right can come up with... we'll be JUST fine in Novemeber!

Have a great weekend! You going to the Air & Water Show?

The republicans may be more enthusiacst; but when they get in ballot they'll come to their senses and not vote for the same people who have supported Bush policies that...

*enabled large too big to fail financial institution to gamble away our economic health

*left us with two unfinished unpaid for wars

*failed to see the economic crises coming

Great then we shouldnt have any problem. Since it was the Demo controlled congress that voted for all of that.

The wars started in 2001 and 2003, under a Republican-controlled Congress.

Jeremy

*enabled large too big to fail financial institution to gamble away our economic health

*left us with two unfinished unpaid for wars

*failed to see the economic crises coming

Great then we shouldnt have any problem. Since it was the Demo controlled congress that voted for all of that.

If I'm not mistaken I think that was when Repubs held the WH and Congress.

Joe in Albany

You're no Nostradamus; and you are undoubtedly the dumbest poster here! You still can't answer my question about Muslims having the freedom to practice their religion and build a community center here in the land of the free according to the the 1st amendment.

Joe - Spot on post.

It's obvious who runs the House, and it appears to be the corrupt hard-left liberals. It's like watching a crime syndicate in operation. The POTUS tells the criminal Charlie Rangel that he should make for the exits, and Charlie tells the POTUS to "go f*** himself." and then has a party for himself with the rest of his criminal friends in attendance. And Nancy The Swamp Cleaner Pelosi is no where in sight, almost like she is afraid of Charlie.

And of course the media ignores the whole thing. Just think if a Republican was so bold as Rangel is? Think that might get a little press?

Sharpton/Steele 2012! Bipaartisan for everyone!! Whoo Whoo!!!

Republican Senator John Ensign is under investigation by the FBI for his endeavors as well as the ethics committee. Odd that it is not discussed by republicans nor has there been any outcry for his resignation. Boehner has been counseling House republicans on their ethics problems--seems to me not long ago, he demanded Nancy Pelosi tell them what she knew and how soon she knew it. Well, Rep Boehner--what do you know and how long have you known it? Don't demand transparency from one side without demanding it from the other.

Jody, , Iowa

Republican Senator John Ensign is under investigation by the FBI for his endeavors as well as the ethics committee. Odd that it is not discussed by republicans nor has there been any outcry for his resignation

Same answer as with Rangel and Waters. If the FBI and/or ethics committee comes back with charges, then Ensign has to go.

But do you think Ensign will go to the Senate floor and whine about it like Charlie did on the House floor? And do you think Ensign will have a star-studded birthday party for himself and rub the noses of the people that he doesn't like into it? If Ensign did, I would call that the height of arrogance, just I like it is with Charlie.

Bev, if you want to see a dumb poter up close and personal, all you have to do is look in the mirror.

Go back to yeaterday's First Thoughts and scroll down to post number 19.8 and you will find that I responded to you at 2:22 PM. While you're there you can answer the question I posed to you. I'll check later to see your response.

Moron.

LOL!!!

Bev, I just checked yesterday's First Thoughts and to my GREAT SURPRISE there was still no response from you.

You wouldn't be trying to hide from you own stupidity, would you??

Gee, Bev, still no response.

You can run, but, you can't hide.

You will still be a stupid moron next time you post.

Joe,

You are a stupid moron EVERY time you post. You say that you will not respond to idiotic posts, why the heck should we?? Consider yourself IGNORED!

CU Farley

Briefly watched Professional Lefty KeithO last night. He dragged out perhaps one of the liberals most tired and cliched arguments in favor of illegal immigration when he said that WE ALL are illegal aliens, and that Indians are the only ones who are not illegal.

Bet the Indians have re-thought about their Immigration policy from back in the day. Doing so, they might have done things a little different when those boats starting showing up.

Oh, and great post CU! One big vote for you!!

Yeah, I'll bet showing the Pilgrims how to grow corn (our first foray into foreign aid?) is a non-starter!

Guess Keith read my comment a couple weeks ago. That remark sent the right into a hissy fit at the audacity to think the American Indians were the only ones here legally when the Europeans invaded the western continents. It is an abstract argument considering the century but one that should make people think about how ridiculous it is to determine that certain groups should not be citizens.

Prior to the 14th Amendment, anyone who came here was presumed to be a citizen. It became necessary to define and clarify citizenship when the slaves were freed because certain southern elements would not accept the "presumption of citizenship". The purpose of the 14th Amendment was not just declaring former slaves and children of slaves citizens but rather America opening its arms to anyone who comes here and recognizing their children as citizens.

People apparently missed KO's point he was trying to make last night.....it's the same argument for TORT reform and lawsuits. Where do you draw the line on how far down the line you go to determine who to sue (and in this case, to determine someone's right to citizenship.) On my mother's side, we go back to Native American and 1632 English immigrants. My father's side is the German immigration of the 1800's. We have the same "rights" battles going on in the USVI over who is a "native" and entitled to certain "special rights." Our proposed constitution has been sent back to the territory because it violates too many clauses of the US Constitution.

Exactly. The biggest issue being that they act like they know what's going on behind the scenes when they have no clue as to what's going on behind the scenes. They'll swear up and down what everyone is thinking like they are psychic and publish an article as credible when all they have done is created something in their mind, wrote it down and actually believe it. If you ask me, and thanks for asking, :^D,, many in the media act just like Rush. They are slaves to their producers.

Jody, well said. – You forgot that in 94 the Republicans had a message and leaders.

Today – Not so much !

Jody,

I agree, we are starting to see some signs of people refusing to drink the kool-Aid. The latest NBC/WSJ poll was terrible for both parties, but the dems did gain some ground and people trust the republicans less than the democrats. They hate both parties right now, but the dems a little less.

Several of my Small Business clients are moving away from the republican party. Most are saying that the party left them and moved to far to the right. Names like Palin, Angle, Rand and associations such as NFIB and US Chamber of Commerce round out the list.

I had one at a BNI meeting ask if the Finanacial Reform Bill is so weak and favors Wall Street why are they Wlaa Street) curently sending 70% of their campaign dollars to the Republicans?

Well let me think about that..... LMAO

In november we will know, democrats believe that it wont happen, Republicans have hopes it will Either way the Republicans are gonna pick up many seats in both houses

Steve - 505729;

You are probably correct, we will loose some Senate seats and hold on to the majority, the House will be close but I do not think they will have the majority.

I still haven't seen anything to knock me off my expectations that losses will be at the top end of normal for the party in power in a midterm. Maybe I'll feel differently in mid October, but so far it still looks that way.

With the sheer amount of lies and hate that the Repubs keep tossing around, along with voting NO NO NO on EVERYTHING that could be helping normal Americans the only seats I see them picking up will be their own: Picking them up out of their chairs and walking them out the door after their losses!

What the Progressives does not realize is that they represent only about 20% of Americans. They desperately need a large portion of the independent, as they had in 2008, to do anything nationally. The conservatives represent about 38-39% of Americans. They need less than half of the independents to win an election. If they get a majority of independents, they get a landslide. If you are talking about the far left as Gibbs was, you have approximately 10% of America. That is why Gibbs can afford to ignor them. By the way, the percentages of Americans came from Doug Schoen, Clinton's Democratic pollster.

When President Bush sent this guy on a similar trip in 2007, were you bitchin about him then?

Guess when a Republican does it it's OK, is that it No Jo?

Here we go again with you bitching about the mosque...AGAIN!!!

Spare us!!!

actually, Ben, I WAS.

Not just me, though.

If you look at Bush's polls in the last couple years of his second term, you wil be struck by the fact that his polling was BELOW his base. Meaning, Ben, that many republicans disapproved of the job he was doing.

As for obama-he's lost the republicans who voted for him, the independents who voted for him, but his base? Not so much.

Except for the young voters. He's made more republicans than Ronald Reagan ever dreamed of in that group.

And this is based on what exactly.

I hope not just on your wishful thinking.

no joe your credibility continues to fall faster than Carter’s poll numbers.

Bush's polls fell for overall ineptitude, not just the imam trip!

No Jo...you are right about Pres Bush's late polling. Despite voting for him twice, if polled in the last few years, I'd have told a pollster that I disapproved of his job performance. I haven't looked at the crosstabs from right before he left office, but anecdotally, I know that a lot of Republicans (myself and most of my family included) thought he was doing a poor job. I believe the most recent CNN / Opinion Research (I think that's who they partner with) poll showed that President Obama still has something like 75-80% support among Democrats. So, for the most part he has kept his base pretty well intact, but I believe his support among independents is in the low to mid 40's. (Sorry I can't be more exact, but I only read the poll results once, it's Friday, and my mind is already on the weekend!)

Keeping a high amount of support among his base could be a factor in helping to mitigate midterm losses for the Dems. But having support and getting them to the polls are two different things. I believe (as one poster mentioned here before) that there may be some burnout after all the effort that so many people put into 2008. Time will tell.

And the Bush family has long standing ties with the Saudi royal family, too, which could call into question their separation of church and state, or rather oil and state.

Frank,

Another thoughtful post. You make a lot of sense. November should prove to be very interesting indeed. Personality, I do not put much stock in Polls, they can too often be misleading unless you can get a copy of the questions, you really have no idea where the pollster is or was going with it.

I also hate averages. Probally because my college major was Biochemistry BA.

No, Ben, not wishful thinking.

Go to Quinnipiac-look under the toplines, and you find that, yep, Obama is underwater in the 18-35 voter group.

Now, think about the fact that Q's weghting has been questioned recently, as being skewed toward more liberal candidates in BOTH parties.

It isn't surprising, and I predicted it last year. See, I was a Carter supporter, and know from first hand experience that poor policies have a more deleterious effect on the younger, rather than the more experienced,voter.

You pay, dearly, for youth and ignorance.

But you learn,quickly. And they have learned, Ben.

Right-wing media attack program Bush admin felt was useful in fighting terrorism

In recent days, right-wing media have attacked Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's upcoming State Department trip to the Middle East to "discuss Muslim life in America and religious tolerance." However, Rauf began participating in the outreach program during the Bush administration, which considered this kind of outreach as useful "[i]n the struggle against violent extremists."

http://mediamatters.org/research/201008130008

More selective amnesia from the the part of "divide" and "deceive".

Interesting, when the same guy went on the same trip for a different President, nobody said a word.

It's almost like folks are trying to create a controversy for the sole purpose of undermining the President so they don't have to pay their taxes!

Nah . . . couldn't be.

Wasn't hard to have predicted Ground Zero mosque and character assassination of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf today. That was all over the wingnut radio yesterday, today it shows up on the blogs.

Actually Dennis, you want have been better saying they were falling faster than the poll numbers of Pelosi and the Democratics in the House. Last I saw they were at 12% approval which represents the very far left. I believe Carter was at 32% when he left.

Thank you for your post...I agree with you 100%. It basically comes down to this: the rights of the minority can never be put to a popularity vote amongs the majority, or else, all minority groups will be subject to the tyranny of the majority, which is why we have a judicial system, and the 14th Amendment to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

Steven HR, CO:

You are correct. It was about equality not gay or not gay. You can bet the nighties will still find fault. Newt wants to change this. See my post above. But they continue to pretend that they are not hypocrites or bigots. Trying to segregate people into different groups with a different set of rights sounds like a bigot to me.

Nice post Steve.

Enjoyed your post. The judge did an excellent job of dismantling the whole Proposition.

The Constitution established certain inalienable rights. By doing so, the Constitution explicitly established that citizens could not alter those inalienable rights.

The inalienable rights (life liberty pursuit of happiness) come from the Declaration of Independence. The Constitution states which rights cannot be taken away from people. Yes, the judge was right.

Oh Tom...

You know how the righties have no tolerance for those 'pesky' details...

That's their story and they're gonna stick TO it! lol

TARP was passed while President Bush was in office and there was the agreement that they would split control over the $700 Billion, 350 to the Bush Administration and 350 to the Obama Administration. (I believe it passed after he was elected)

Tom

They did a poll and 47% of the people believe President Obama was the one to pass TARP and 32% said he didn't.

Sometimes I just wonder wants wrong with these people.

The Truth hurts..and the repubs/rethugs (sorry Jack) "Can't handle the truth"

Tom - good that you bring this up.

What's "wrong with these people" is that they no longer have the same source for facts. Journalists USED to dig and dig...then fact check and report to us. They no longer do this (maybe a couple still do??) so we just absorb and believe the cr*p that is spewed. I'm not surprised AT ALL that 47% of people belive the current President passed TARP all by himself. Nor am I surprised that voters are so unimformed. We're a lazy lot...we have to be spoon fed information. If it's handed to us we'll take it - never spending an ounce of energy the fact check.

Example: An article in the Denver Post today (I'm a transplant to CO) about our (R) candidate for Gov. The blogger was complaining that the Post wasn't providing information on the (D) candidate. First, the (D)'s had no primary, the (R) primary was a fiasco. Of course the Post devoted most of it's time to the (R) race. But that's not the point at all. The (D) candidate has been the Mayor of Denver for 2 terms. Just how much information do you think in available about him...all you have to do is about 3 strokes in google. But this guy was upset that no one is "doing it for him". I think this guy is the NORM.

It would be nice to think that eventually NEWS will return to being NEWS...but I don't see it happening. Emotion sells, a lot better than facts. Voters must be tenacious if they're to be informed.

Tom,

You are correct. TARP was signed by President Bush in Oct 2009.

BTW: 41% of the people think President Obama signed TARP.

It is beyond me how voters can be so easily confused. How can voters forget that it was the collapse of Lehman Brothers pre-TARP that had McCain suspend his campaign, determine the debate should be cancelled, and it was McCain who asked Bush to have both candidates and House, Senate leaders attend a meeting to discuss what to do.

How can voters forget the image of McCain announcing he was suspending the campaign, cancelling his David Letterman slot to GET TO WASHINGTON ASAP, only to make a stop in NY for an interview with Katie Couric. TARP was passed in the fall of 2008.

Thank you for the information. I work HR and hiring, one thing I am fond of saying to our new hires is, "when you get tired of this job remember what it was like the day before I called you." I say that because I remember how I felt the day before I got the job I have now. I think we all need to remember what it was like the day before the economy stopped free falling. I would hope folks compare where we are now to that day. Regardless of how you want to paint it, it is an improvement.

Excellent point VermontGirl. We've moved from a world in which you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts to one in which even the facts are presented as radically different depending on your source. When you actually do some research that's a lot less true than you'd believe just by going to the different sources.

There's no question the press has gotten lazy. They no longer fact check or even feel the need to, instead preferring to assume that the truth is midway between opinion A and opinion B. All well and good but sometimes opinion A is opinionated but based in truth while opinion B is bat-guano crazy. Those are the times when skipping the fact check is a serious problem.

TARP was passed by a Democratic House and Senate. Bush just signed it into law. So if we are blaming someone, Bush gets 1/3 credit. President can not pass any spending bills. Money is appropriated and passed by the House and Senate. Also, 2/3 of the Bush deicits were appropriated and spent by a Democratic House and Senate, Bush was stupid enough to sign off on it because he wanted the money for the wars. Maybe that is the reason his support from Republicans had dropped significantly before he left office.

Yes, a Democratic House and Senate that had been put to fear by Bush and Paulson shouting how the world would fall apart if they didn't do exactly what they wanted, with no oversight, and do it NOW! Remember, they said it could be worse than the Great Depression and had everyone fearful. They did the same thing to go to war with Iraq, spew out fear (and bogus intelligence) and say we have to do it and to do otherwise made you unpatriotic.

I beleive we could save some time here if the questions were asked directly to Frank Luntz, the repubs pollster/ mouthpiece!

CA:

I agree, well thought out.

Great post, CA.

The GOP made some major gaffes by claiming the unemployed like to be unemployed, refusing to pass unemployment benefit extensions, and then claiming the tax cuts for the wealthy as the fix for economic well being and will not add to the deficit. Their NO on everything may sell to their base but it will not necessarily sell to the American people who WANT Congress to fix it.

Score one for John Bohlman!

Let's say it again, just because no Republican proposals are not seen on MSNBC does not mean they don't exist. If you go to Rep. Paul Ryan's website: http://paulryan.house.gov/Issues/ There is a whole list of them on almost every issue. This list is being used as the basis of a new "Contract with America" which is scheduled to be released shortly for the Fall midterms. The only problem is NBC and it's incestuous cousin MSNBC, will not put them on the air. Then they say they don't exist. Last I counted there are 14 definite proposals for this election. Read and whine!!

Most importantly though, it's Friday and we are about 7 hours away from Happy Hour and some margaritas!!

Best post so far!! :)

Frank: You are one of my favorite people, regardless of party affiliation. Yes, I still have last December's predictions. I think you are doing better than I in a number of categories. But there is still some time before the elections and I'm not ready to concede. It's good to have you back. Indiana is on eastern time also, so I will have a glass of wine and think of you and a margarita.

BTW you write very, very well.

Grimey I am with you on the count down been a long week. I think your predictions are right on.

Speaking of happy hour- I wonder what color one's skin turns when one combines too much sun, and too many liver-destroying martinis at the '19th hole'? Orange, perhaps??

Steven...I'll save you a seat. There's something about living in Florida and a cold margarita that just feels right!

Ron...considering I'm a numbers guy, I take your saying I write very well as a compliment. I'm sure with that added pressure I'll make plenty of grammatical and spelling mistakes in this post! No need to give up on any predictions at this point. As we all know, 2+ months is an eternity in politics.

Drive-by...Well, I hope my skin doesn't go orange. Happy Hour margaritas and the Florida sun. Could be a bad combination, but so far so good! I try to use that stuff that keeps you from turning orange...I think we call it sunscreen! :-)

Drive By,

19th hole...this is a political blog, leave Tiger out of it already....(j/k, LOL)

And Frank, with Margaritas you would be more in danger of yer skin going Green in the sun, Oh Well, Is Friday and is time for humor is it not??

Grimey...

You do remember that I prefer my margarita's without salt right? ;0)

My in-laws have a house in Boca Grande that we have visited in July of 09 and 10 and holy cow its definitely Marguarita weather!!

Stay cool :)

Frank, WE are happy to see you back. I'd like a mojito, please, in keeping with tropical Florida although I am quite fond of a good margarita with a little salt on the rim. I agree, Charlie Crist will win. I predict he will caucus with the republican party but be a giant thorn in their side because he will do what he thinks is best for the People, not the Party.

Grimey, Doug Schoen, Clinton's pollster, is predicting 42 to 48 seats in the House with Republican taking the House. In the Senate, he is saying at least 7-8 definite with a shot at 10. I can think of 3 House seats here in Ohio which are almost a lock now to transfer to Republicans. Back a couple months ago, people on here were telling me that the Dems would pick up the Voinovich seat in Ohio. Right now, Portman(R) is ahead by 7-9 points. The Repubs. should pick up the House and the Senate will be a one vote either way which probably means gridlock on the Obama agenda the next two years.

Pat,

There is no answer to fixing the economy. The only way it will be fixed if corporations stopped being greedy and started hiring again, and banks stopped hording their cash and started lending, and republcans stop obstructing a new green technology enterprise in this country

Pat, interesting viewpoint and a compelling question. Pat, it's the job of corporations to make money, for themselves, and for their stock holders. If they don't, they'd go out of business. If you call that greed, then so be it. If a company has enough demand, or the prospect of having that demand in the future, they will grow and they will hire. Right now, in the current business environment, companies are not seeing that demand starting anytime soon. No demand. No growth.

Bush tax cuts led to the "Great Recession"? Not sure about that, because there were a lot of things that led on to the "Great Recession". I guess we could play the same game Obama plays regarding those tax cuts and Obama's trillion dollar stimulus and say "Things would have been much worse without those tax cuts", but digress.

Pat, interest rates are at all time low, money is plentiful to businesses if they want to expand. Pelosi said that "Unemployment checks were the best form of stimulus because they created demand". Doesn't look like that's true. Until people feel safe to invest and expand, and until there is demand, no business will be hiring anytime soon.

Good post and response. I agree with both of you.

What we need is more people coming together just like this, with ideas from ALL sides. Not just reactionary responses, but well thought out and researched interaction.

I would suggest we stop looking for things to blame for our current situation and start concentrating on what we can do now that will benefit us in the future. (that goes to both sides by the way :D)

Agreed Steven.

There are going to be some huge challenges that need to be addressed, and addressed soon. If the polls are correct, we will have a split Congress with small majority for the Republicans in the House and a slight majority for the Democrats in the Senate, and of course Obama. The president will have a choice to make early on then, does he moderate his views and work with the evenly split Congress, or does he dig in his heels and demonize Congress going into the 2012 elections? For the countries sake, lets hope he chooses the former, but I have my doubts.

Gotta say, I'm with JoAnna on the demand thing. No demand, no ramped up produciton. No jobs- no demand. You can't make jobs magicaly appear, just because you want them to. Stimulus spending? Yeah, it might create some demand- temporarily. When the prodution jobs went to India, China, and elsewhere- what did you expect to happen to demand over HERE? Do the big corporations suffer as a result? Not as long as those countries are enjoying the record economic growth going on over there, which supplies a steady, increasing, demand for the companies' products. Hate to be a glomy Gus, but that model doesn't point to much of a recovery any time soon. Not under Obama, not under Romney, Not under any of the next several presidents.

Want recovery? Find a way to return producion to our country. And good luck with that, because if you try to force the corporations to do it, you will be tagged a Communist or worse.

drive-by: Want recovery? Find a way to return producion to our country. And good luck with that, because if you try to force the corporations to do it, you will be tagged a Communist or worse.

There is a government-driven economy, and there is a market-driven economy. Currently the scales are tipped to the former, and that will just not work. And that is why I come across as so negative towards Obama's economic policy. Government-driven economies just do not work. At some point we have to trust in the market to generate the production and the demand for the economy. I don't see our current government providing that trust.

Good points, all.

If you look at Bush tax cuts, GOP wants to retain all, and the democratic proposal which retains most of them, you will see as Ezra Klein pointed out with a graph--great similarities. Both give roughly the same amount of relief to the middle and low income earners ranging from $3-6,000 which makes sense especially right now.

The unfair and, my view, outrageous difference was like a giant bubble tacked on at the highest rate on those making more than $1 Million a year (currently 35%). If extended, the Bush cuts give the over $1 Million earners a whopping $103,835 dollar break; the democrats proposed rate of 39.9% would still give the Million dollar group a $6,349 break. I would like to think we can all agree that the $103,835 tax break for those who already make a chunk of change is too much. All will add to the deficit but it is that bracket that adds $850 Billion to the debt over 10 years and as economists from all sides state--it provides the least bang for the debt dollar.

Government driven economies are temporary stop gap economies for the purpose of allowing the market-driven economy time to recover. That is what Government is supposed to do in times of crisis like the Great Depression and 2008. In order for the market-driven economy to recover, it must have a consumer who can drive it. Without stimulating the economy, the hole would have been deeper. It is easy to say that it is all President Obama's fault but clearly it is the market-driven economies fault, it gambled and WE lost.

George W. Bush was the biggest big government President in history because he chose to be. President Obama had no choice about government spending IF this country was to avoid a second Great Depression. We may disagree on the best approach but NONE OF US and NO PRESIDENT would have stood by and watched as we went over the cliff and hit bottom, not McCain, not Bush, not Reagan, not Clinton. Hoover learned too late.

I would point out that the US for sometime has not had a truely market-driven economy, it has had a Banking and Investment driven one. In 1994, the 6 largest banks combined was 17% of GDP; today it is 63% of GDP for the 6 largest. This is exactly WHY the system collapsed and in the process took everything else down with it. It is WHY this recovery will be long and slow for awhile.

Good stuff here. Maybe WE should run for Congress and get some stuff done!!

Jody, Iowa

Government driven economies are temporary stop gap economies for the purpose of allowing the market-driven economy time to recover

Health care reform, Finance regulations, take over of the student loan program, take over of GM, eternal unemployment benefits, non-stop bailouts to the state governments, support for Cap&Trade. These don't look too temporary to me Jody.

Steven, Highlands Ranch, CO

Good stuff here. Maybe WE should run for Congress and get some stuff done!!

Not me, Steven. I'll be the first to admit I'm not only not-smart-enough to do any good, but I'm also too poor to spend the millions it takes to get into office now days.

(that, and I acutally enjoy WORKING for a living...)

Not me, Steven. I'll be the first to admit I'm not only not-smart-enough to do any good, but I'm also too poor to spend the millions it takes to get into office now days.

(that, and I acutally enjoy WORKING for a living...)

Votes for funniest comeback of the day!

Amen, spot on! I thought elephants had good memories, but maybe there were no good memories to remember!!

Ginger: Excellent questions! The vote Angle will get are those of Tea Partiers who are outside the mainstream of American thought. The outrageous and irrational people will vote for her. Fortunately that is not a majority of Americans.

Terrific post, Ginger.

Social security, medicare, unemployment insurance are NOT entitlements, they are money WE and are employers pay for in the form of payroll taxes. It would seem that politicians like Angel are all talk and no substance, they don't even understand the programs they want to eliminate least of all why they were implemented in the first place. Welfare is an entitlement but exists to prevent death and suffering for Americans.

Why all the anger Bev? It's Friday. Relax. Be happy. And have a nice weekend.

The Tea Party supporters stood in Town Halls whimpering that "I want my country back." Back from where? I look outside and see it is still here. The country has not imploded. There are not armed militias marching down the street and breaking down doors. The hospital is still down the street. I still have the same auto, home and health insurance I had in 1995; still the same doctor. I can still go buy whatever I wish if I can pay for it. My bank is still a small private bank not owned by the Government. The police officers are still hired by the town and not Government controlled. I still have freedom of speech to disagree with politicians or people. The American flag still flies high and proud flutters in the breeze, especially on the 4th of July when neighbors add theirs to the official town flag flying.

This country does not belong to one person, to one party or the other, to one ideology or the other; it belongs to everyone of us and neither side has a right to demand that they be given their country back because they do not like what the majority of Americans according to the Constitution decided in the last election. The United State is a democracy and the majority decides who will lead it for two, four, or eight years.

Jody, there are tactics for both parties organizations and supporters that leave a lot to be desired. That's how politics is. The essence of the Tea Party is that they are for a smaller and less controlling government. If you want to argue with that, then go ahead. The "I want my country back" has been a slogan for both sides throughout the years, if you want to dwell on it, so be it.

Jody: This country does not belong to one person, to one party or the other, to one ideology or the other; it belongs to everyone

Sure does. We all want safe cities, good schools, lots of jobs, a clean environment, and the opportunity to succeed in America. We just differ on how to achieve those goals.

Just a note, the war funding wasn't included in the Bush era budget whereas it is now...

Your argument lost all credibility when you started showing budget deficit data.

Question: What's the difference between 2008 and 2009 data?

Answer: President Bush NEVER included Iraq and Afghanistan in his budgets. President Obama did.

Wade,

Clearly you have no idea how to link cause and effect. Deficits created by legislation continue to grow to larger and larger numbers over time as long as they are in effect and nothing is done to offset them.

What caused half of the current deficit was: The 2 unfunded wars; the unfunded tax cuts of 2001 & 2003, the unfunded Medicare Advantage, and so on.

Somebody else got a new list of talking points from FOX.

"7.2% GDP growth fastest in 19 years (2003) Bush with Republican controlled Senate and House."

Why does it take to get you to understand that this was inflated garbage? The economic meltdown was a result of this economic growth. Your argument is silly and partisan. You can't just quote the numbers you want to prove your point. Policies take time to go into effect and so it takes time to see the effects. You are ridiculous in your pretzel logic.

Funny games with numbers and derivatives...anybody getting the picture here?

Dennis, Columbus, Ohio

Wade,

What caused half of the current deficit was: The 2 unfunded wars; the unfunded tax cuts of 2001 & 2003, the unfunded Medicare Advantage, and so on.

Well, that, and the exploding costs of the woefully underfunded entitlement programs. Funny those never get mentioned.

So Dennis, Obama and his crew of spenders just popped off a $165 Billion dollar deficit spending spree in July. Do you think the Democrats will have to raise the $14 trillion debt ceiling before, or after the elections if Obama continues to increase his deficit spending?

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Somebody else got a new list of talking points from FOX.

Wow, that is all the loony left has left. Screeches of racism, accusations of so called FOX talking points, and just a constant whining about "Why doesn't everyone like our President".

Com'on Navy, man-up and take at least take a little responsibility for the failures of Obama and the Democrats.

Bush was in power from 2001 through 2008, and he had the veto stamp. Both Bush unfunded tax cuts, the unfunded wars, the unfunded Rx medicare expansion, unfunded everything were all passed--wait for it--BEFORE 2007! Please explain again how it was the democrats caused Bush to double the national debt to $11.5 trillion. I would like to hear that answer.

Yeah Jody, I think we all agree, Bush screwed up. You don't get a 20%-something approval rating by not screwing up. He acted way too fiscally liberal and spent money he did not have. Which brings us to Obama . . . . , who appears to be a super-sized version of Bush.

JoAnnaSmith1

"Yeah Jody, I think we all agree, Bush screwed up. You don't get a 20%-something approval rating by not screwing up. He acted way too fiscally liberal and spent money he did not have."

______________________________________________________________________________

Thank you for agreeing that Bush added to the deficit. Could there be hope for you?

By the way those screwups - dealing with Iraq, Afganistan and the financial crisis has forced Obama to baloon the deficit.

I'm not for unneccessary government spending either. I will be the first to take a look at what the debt commisson proposes. Our biggest problem between us would be the definition of what a government should do for the populace. I don't think a government should look the other way or make it easier for big business to exploit the free market system and step on the little guy. There has to be balance - regulations.

YD: Thank you for agreeing that Bush added to the deficit. Could there be hope for you?

The hope isn't for me YD, it's for your side. Your side is so desperate to say that Bush added to the debt, $5 trillion in 8 years, that you seem to be missing the current event of Obama adding $4 trillion to the debt, in 20 months, and projections of $1.4 trillion deficits for years to come. So lets cut through the bs that Bush overspent and not ignore that Obama is far and away the world-champion of government over-spending in recorded history.

Wade

2008 -458.6 Billion (DEM WH, DEM House & Senate)
2009 -1.4 Trillion (DEM WH, DEM Senate & House, national debt explodes)

2008 wrong GOP WH

2009 budget was still Bush's because the fiscal year starts October 1, 2008 to September 30, 2009

So Bush caused the big national debt explodes.

Its getting a bit circular. I won't repeat why there was a balooning of the budget again. I don't follow your figure of 4 Trillion. Obama has only been president during 1 of the budgets 1.4 Trillion. Granted a new fiscal year is coming up but it is only proposed at this point Congress needs to approve it.

Cutting taxes will only exacerbate the deficit problem. Bush tax cuts need to expire. Your call for 10% government spending cuts could be helped by stopping our nation building attempts in Iraq and Afganistan.

-Mark D

Its getting a bit circular. I won't repeat why there was a balooning of the budget again. I don't follow your figure of 4 Trillion. Obama has only been president during 1 of the budgets 1.4 Trillion.

Budget? What budget? Congress decided not to have one this year. July's deficit spending by the feds was $165 billion though. A record. Extrapolate that out, that's a $1.9 trillion dollar deficit for the year.

And you think cutting taxes would exacerbate the problem? What is exacerbating the problem is Obama signing bill after bill that spends billions of dollars we do not have. That is what needs to stop. We cannot tax enough to feed the addiction of Obama and the Democrats spending.

Congress could not do anything without bush's approval. The democrats did not have any super majority in the senate. The repug senators could have blocked any legislation.

Powerless democrats alone could not have caused the economy to go in a FREE FALL in just two years.

The reasons that led to the great recession were lack of government supervision and lack of regulations.

The money spent on the unfunded and unnecessary wars is the worst type of spending.

The money does not stay here. The money does not create domestic demand.

That money creates millions of enemies around the world. Do not expect those millions of people to import any of your products.

You have to spend more money for a long time on the soldiers injured in the war.

And for those Republicans who have conveniently forgot the Bush years, here are a few things you have forgotten about President Bush term in office - 8 LONG years.

* Attacked and took over two countries.

* Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.

* Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

* Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

* Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

* First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

* First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

* First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.

* After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.

* Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.

* In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.

*Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.

* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

* Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.

* Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.

* Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.

* Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.

* Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

* Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.

* Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

* My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.

* Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice has an Exxon oil tanker named after her).

* First president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.

* Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.

* First president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.

* Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.

* Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.

* First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.

* First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.

* Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.

* Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

* Withdrew from the World Court of Law.

* Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

* First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).

* All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

* My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

* Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.

* First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

* First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

* First US president to establish a secret shadow government.

* Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

* With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

* First US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

* First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.

* Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

* Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.

* Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.

* Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capital building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.

* In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.

* Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.

* In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.

* Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

You should get your distorted facts straight.... -looking for a job-.

Companies are much more likely to hire people who are honest.... then, you could rename yourself with a more self-confident blog name..... like..... "gainfully employed"

So looking isn't honest because he disagrees with you?

Oh, and extra points for sticking the traditional Republican "blame the victim" landing.

How did the democrats cause the mess? You repeat talking points that have been proven false but you provide no explanation for why the republicans did nothing to prevent or stop the "mess". The only explanation you make is that it is all President Obama's fault because he is a democrat and in your view, anyone other than a republican is what is wrong with the country.

Repeat, Franks and Dodd tried to get GOP who were in charge until 2007 to fix Fannie and Freddie years ago--they refused; and Bush threatened to veto anything the democrats did. The GOP continues to refuse even now. They refused to fix the financial regulatory system, and they continue to fight for big business and not the people.

Wade

Nobody is impressed with your diatribe against President Obama or the Democrats controlling Congress since 2007.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. Bush never put the 2 wars, the tax cuts or the Part D Rx Drug progam on the the books. By hiding the real cost of these things until Obama took office the Republicans can shout from the hills about Obama the Big Spender as if all of this started on 01/21/2009.

Can you say HYPOCRITES?

Tut, tut! You have been listening to Beck and Limbaugh again. That's no way to become informed.

''' Presidents to not make laws or budgets they can suggest them but it is the constitutional right of Congress to make laws and to tax and to approve budgets. So anyone who says this was started with the last year of G.W.Bush is really stupid because if Congress the demo congress would have listen to G.W. Bush and regulated Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack none of this would have happened. But no Barrack Obama then Senator obama and Chris Dodd and Barney Franks and many other Demos blocked the regulation and caused all the subsequent meltdown in the economy.''''''

The repugs had six years to regulate Fannie and Freddie . Why didn't they do it???

The repugs had six years to regulate Fannie and Freddie, they had control of all three branches of government. Why didn't they do it???

The President can issue executive orders. The President can enforce all existing laws.