Like the old bumper sticker says Bev...

Voting for a Republican is equivalent to a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders...

Afterall -there's a reason the righties are referred to as the party of male - stale & pale!

It might be a good thing, for the long run, for the Republicans to take over congress in November.

After 2 years of their bullbleep, Americans will remember why they voted Obama, in 2008, and will reelect him in 2012, while getting rid of every Republican that is up for reelection.

I only hope that Sarah Barracuda is the Republican nominee. Palin/Beck has a really nice ring to it, don't you think?

Both of these comments are so eloquently representative. Will you give us a dissertation on macroeconomics next please?

The funny thing is how this article is worded...It would also mean the exact same thing to say that Tea Party polls slip, but still remain the most popular in the nation! They also mention that the Tea Party numbers are a combined negative opinion and somewhat negative opinion. When they quote the negative numbers for for the republicans and the democrats they use just the word negative and it looks as though they did not include the "somewhats".

Only problem is, Puddleduck, that by then it will be too late. There will be no economy (or country) left.

Chickens voting for KFC - That's funny. I'm sure there are some republicans that are smarter than chickens.

My mother used to tell me "be careful what you wish for" because you might get your wish in ways that you cannot conceive. I pass that on to the "tea baggers". I am not so sure that they all agree on what they want, and since they speak only in generalities one cannot be SURE of what they are after. Are you really wanting to kill Social Security? How many of you live on that? What is it that you get from the government that you are willing to do without? Roads, military, SOCIAL SECURITY? I really believe that those who like to shout about "getting the government off your back" might be somewhat shocked what you are left with if you get your wish. Do you REALLY want that to happen? Anita, my friend, welcome back. You can't know how you were missed. Hugs to YOU!

Just more of the same old BS fueled by the same old clueless liberal establishment. Desperate times call for desperate measures, or in this case, a desperate poll to give false hope to the faithful clueless as witnessed here. ND Dawning you need to wake up and realize you did exactly what your mother warned you about. You probably wnet ahead and voted for "Change" while wishing upon a star but I'm afraid your star is anything but what you think he is. I just hope & pray that there are enough enlightened democrats, republicans and tea party members to repel yours & others "Wishful" voting come 2012 election.

Well, if the social security system is privatized, people can then make their own decisions on how to invest their--I repeat, THEIR--money. If the roads are privatized, that would mean that private companies take care of them. I agree that some form of government is needed--that type of government that our founding fathers had in mind when they gave birth to this wonderful country of ours. The government should take charge of our safety, meaning defend us from foreign threat, have police and courts to enforce and uphold the law. That's what, I think, many people want. They want economic freedom from the government.

Economic freedom as...No regulations, no labor protections, no protection from usury from the big banks, Corporations poisoning our waterways, and air? Our elderly living in homeless shelters with no healthcare, and no Social Security because the stockbrokers blew it on derivatives? Toll roads everywhere, Bloated military budgets? Yeah, bring us back to the 19th century! Be careful what you wish for, you teabaggers!

Feisty-Redhead Roselle, IL said, “ Like the old bumper sticker says Bev...

Voting for a Republican is equivalent to a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders...

Afterall -there's a reason the righties are referred to as the party of male - stale & pale”!

--------------------------------------------------------

Excellent analogy.LOL. :D)

Hemi-Man: While I always appreciate people telling me what I think, or give me the reason for what I did, you are wrong. I never vote for the amorphous. I voted on what President Obama ran on, including HCR and his plan for Iraq. Why did you vote?

Yawn..........

Democrats have Elected a Majority Failure in both the House and the Senate..

and the Biggest Failure ever is occupying the White house.. I can't wait till Novermber

and yes newday.. We understand you believed what Obama told you about Iraq.. Only to hear today that Americans are again in Combat in IRAQ and two more Americans have died.. The man lied to you when he told you that Combat missions in IRAQ are over.

Quick... can someone get lethargic Steve some NoDoze?

Classic example of what happens with sleep deprivation... hallucinations gain traction... lmao

Really, Steve? Troops are leaving Iraq. Were you bothered when Bush sent troops INTO Iraq based on several lies? Or was that all right?

This trend demonstrates a common consensus that their (The Tea Bagger Tribunal Review Comedy Hour) cause represents a herd of inappropriately disposed medical waste. Why confuse a cause with a mental condition. Sponsored and endorsed by the GOP. On that subject, why Xerox a copy of a disposable item? If stupid is an heirloom they hold all of the riches.

The GOP idiot wing, the teabaggers, are leading the charge to return to the disasterous policies of Dubya. Republicans have no idea's, and are depending on the pathetic stupidity of their idiot minions to give them back the reins of power. Tax breaks for the rich, deregulation of Wall Street, environmental policies that favor relaxed standards so corporations can make a killing while poisoning the air and water, threats on the basic rights of women using fundamentalist religion as a rationale, and refusal to enforce immigration laws to benefit corporate insiders (which lead to 12 Million new illegals during the Bush2 years) are just a few continuing GOP policies. A vote for Republicans is a vote for right wing extremists.

Yes we finally get to it as usual. Its all W's fault isn't it. Doesnt matter that your pinheaded communist have been in charge of congress since 2007 and now almost two years of this tripe you call a president, yet it is still W's fault. Listen closely wing nut liberal Democrats. The whinning is getting old. W is no longer in office. This disaster lands squarely on the shoulders of Obama and the Democratic congress. All you have to do is come off the meds and admit you made a huge mistake voting for all this hope and change and trust me you will get better.

Privatize the roads? Are you on crack? You do realize that private enterprise exists to make money, right? So in your world, the street in front of your house is a toll road... as is every other road you take throughout your day.

What color is the sky in your world Gaylip? Sheesh.

"You cannot reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into"

To al151998 Please define your terms....the word "communism" means many different things to many different people. Please give examples. I have read hundreds of comments about the negative effects of the Bush economic program, most of them give some facts to try and support their positions. You, on the other hand, and I am sure you consider to be a "real American", offer nothing to prove either that, or that George Bush did anything right. I must therefore assume that you don't know about anything that Mr. Bush did correctly, otherwise you would have taken the time to write about it.

Dear al151998: Who took troops and munitions away from Afghanistan to go to Iraq, for a reason that was never articulated, and changed day to day? Obama was not President, so it rests squarely with Bush, who was. I realize that it is convenient for the right wing to pretend that Bush's Presidency did not exist, so that all things become Obama's fault, but facts are facts however inconvenient they may be. I await with interest your response, and your definition of communism.

So, what we have here is another circle jerk of people who deride, belittle and defame a large group of Americans who are doing nothing wrong, beyond holding an opinion contrary to the angry left. They are exercisingtheir right to freedom of speech and assembly, peacefully. The left is loosing the argument in the court of public opinion and instead of defending their position (because in many ways, it is indefensible), they attack the opposition and engage in hyperbole to try to prove their point, which fails. They fling the race card with abandon, and engage in the usual elitist nonsense, forgetting that just three short years ago THEY were the ones ACTUALLY stomping around calling other Americans anti-American and carrying signs with Bush's face featuring a Hitler mustache. Now you're all offended when Obama's face has a Hitler moustache, but it was okay when YOU did it. I say it's wrong, no matter who does it.

It is to laugh.

If you can't understand the difference between NO government at all and LIMITED government which is what the tea party is advocating, perhaps you should check the mirror for people with limited comprehension.

And lastly, this is the same bunch of people who less than a month ago was up in arms against alleged "Islamaphobia", claiming that everyone that opposed the mosque at GZ was a bigot and prevailing upon the usual liberal sturm and drang of tolerance and fair treatment since not ALL Muslims are extremists.

Fair enough, except that you fail to see the contradiction in your own arguments and rule out entirely the idea that people can be completely tolerant of Muslims and mosques AND oppose THIS mosque at THIS location. There are already over 100 in NYC, yet 2/3s of NYers oppose the location of THIS mosque.

And more importantly to this topic, you claim that the tea party members are racist, homophobic bigots. On what basis? On the basis of a handful of tea party members. Now there's a left wing cabal, led by the NAACP, dedicated to showcasing the lowest common denominator and labeling it as the ENTIRE TEA PARTY.

The hypocrisy of the left is mind-numbing.

Dear Pragmatic: Where in the Constitution does it say that a church, synagogue or mosque cannot be built without majority support of people who live in the area? The "tea baggers" don't need anyone else to showcase the members that are racist. They do a fine job all by themselves.

If the worst happens and a number of seats are turned over to GOP candidates - obviously including a number of extremist teabaggers - look for utter chaos in the House and Senate. The ideological split between moderates and ultra-right will hopelessly snarl the national legislature.

There's a very clear example of this - in the California legislature. Unbridgeable divisions among Republicans there have for decades put the legislature in terrible gridlock.

It seems certain that a number of teabaggers will achieve office - but at the moment it also looks as if that crowd won't include Michelle Bachman, Sharron Angle, Rand Paul, or Quayle. Their outrageous statements and the expanding lack of respect for the teabaggers should stop these fringe nuts.

You couldn't have proven my point for me any better than you just did, newday, on numerous levels including reading comprehension.

Thank you Pragmatic. Unfortunately I doubt you'll get a sensible reply despite making sensible statements about what is clearly being displayed here by those who follow these First Read blogs and conduct their daily circle jerk as you so eloquently put it. It almost paints you as a bit of a masochist though.

newday - I can disagree and think that building a mosque there is a bad idea and call it insensitive, and most Americans agree with that statement. Fortunately our country allows us to use our property as we see fit as long as we follow the law... and if they do, and a mosque is built, then so be it. You can oppose it because it is inherently wrong on a moral and social level and still recognize that it is allowed - that is after all what constitutes an opinion.

But you neglect to answer my question, Pragmatic, why is that? Rat Poison, do you REALLY think you speak for most Americans?

heheheheheheh........talk about liberal spin

headline is "Tea Party negative ratings continue to climb"

should have been "Tea Party still more popular than dems or republicans"

you libs are making me dizzzzzzzzzzy

I didn't bother to answer your question, newday, because if you actually read and comprehended my post, you would know that at no point in time did I claim the Constitution forbids building the mosque without majority approval, or anything even remotely approaching that.

You're deflecting again and attempting to put words in my mouth - more typical left wing shoot-the-messenger tactics.

I won't let you get away with it.

It doesn't go unnoticed, however, that you failed to address anything in my post beyond trying to deflect and put words in my mouth and by engaging in some more stereotyping of the tea party as racist.

In other words, more hypocrisy. It's what I've come to expect from this blog.

Or is it that you realize that my point is quite germane, Pragmatic? It is of no value to survey how people feel about that mosque being built there. There is nothing in the Constitution that disallows "sensitivities" from being offended. The issue is simply this: is that mosque allowed to be placed in that area by the Establishment Clause. If the answer is yes, and I see that you go a great distance to avoid saying that, the rest is just created controversy.

It is only germane because you're trying to make it so, via making up crap that you want to IMPLY I said that I didn't actually say.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/18/poll-new-yorkers-oppose-community-center-recognize-constitutionality/

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/11/overwhelming-majority-oppose-mosque-near-ground-zero/

It becomes a question of, of course it's a right. But is it the right thing to do?

If you read the poll, NYers specifically recognize the absolute guaranteed right of the builders to build their mosque. No one is asking the government to prevent the building of the mosque. They are attempting to prevail upon the builders themsevles to choose a different location. If they choose to build, they can expect there to be hard feelings both locally and nationwide.

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble understanding those concepts, but I begin to wonder if its not just a subterfuge (again) to divert the attention I've called to the hypocrisy in which you engage toward the actual TOPIC of this article - the tea party.

Again, typical.

Then why do you bring up a poll for discussion? It is of no value. The Constitutional protections belong to all, and those that want to build that Community Center (it actually isn't a mosque) have an absolute right to do it. But, I am sorry you are having difficulty understanding the point. And, I am sure that if you study what I have said, you will eventually pick up on it.

And the people objecting to the mosque have the absolute right to do so, protected by the same amendment that protects the builders of the mosque.

I'm very sorry you think the 1st amendment only applies to people with whom you agree.

Again, thank you for telling me what I think, but you are quite incorrect. While people can express anything they want with regard to that Community Center, it is not of any particular value. The Establishment Clause allows for it, it does not specify that if people's feelings are hurt that it must be moved elsewhere or consideration must be given to moving it. The poll is a way to simply gin up feelings against Muslims. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue.

Dawn, Don't waste you time on Prag, he wants to go down to Florida and help Rev Jones burn Koran's.

He doesn't get it.

So, here's the question, "What if you gave a Tea Party and NOBODY came?" See ya in November suckas!

HI, Skip, good to see you today! I believe you are right about that. I keep wanting to go out on this glorious day and saddle my horse. Probably should head out and do that. I do find the Community Center Controversy mind boggling. If we start changing our core beliefs, it seems to me that the enemy has won! Have a good one!

Nowhere did I say that the mosque MUST be moved because of people's opinions.

It is quite typical that you would say, people's opinions don't matter - when you disagree with them.

However, it's also quite apparent that your mind is slammed shut to the idea that people can completely agree that the Constitution provides for the building of the mosque, and still oppose its location on non-Constitutional grounds.

Perhaps its simply too fine of a line for you.

And you're still not addressing the MAIN point of my original post - the raging hypocrisy of this entire thread re: the tea party.

Have fun.

The hypocrisy belongs to those who think that polls on this issue matter. Simply that. Constitutional protections are not subject to the whims of pollsters.

Who said constitutional protections were subject to the whims of pollsters?

I didn't, anywhere. You are the one claiming that, not me. Again, the point I'm making is apparently too complex for you.

Still nothing about the hypocrisy directed at the tea party.

Oh and by the way. Under the same rational as the mosque, the Quran will be burned. It is a Constitutionally protected freedom. I don't happen to think it's a valuable exercise of the 1st Amendment, but opinions don't count as far as preventing the burning of the Quran, do they, since its Constitutionally protected.

Gotta love how the liberals are now chanting "Community Center" over and over. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it is still a duck, even if you try to call it an elephant.

And before newday writes me off as a teabagger, I voted for Obama in the last election and have no problem justifying that vote. I am probably far more liberal "in thought" than most of the left-leaning nutcases that post on these boards, mostly because I realize tolerance of other opinions is the cornerstone of true liberalism. Read the NY Times? Then you also need to read the Post. Watch CNN? Then you also need to watch Fox.

The modern liberal is incapable of understanding the need for diversity of opinions and is therefore worse than the dreaded conservative. Why? Pragmatic used the precise word: "hypocrisy."

There is no one LESS tolerant of opposing opinions than a liberal, yet the liberals are the ones who preach "tolerance" at the drop of a hat.

Of course, having said that, there's a snowball's chance in hell that I'll vote for any of the Tea Party candidates I've researched. But like them or hate them, you have to listen, and you have to think about what they're saying. They aren't going to go away, and the people who support them have a voice and a right to be heard.

Oh, and to burn a Quran is as misguided and ignorant as building a mosque at Ground Zero. Both are permitted by our laws, but neither is a very smart thing to do. Unfortunately, our Constitution does not bar someone from exercising his or her right to be stupid.

To answer your question newday; never did I infer that I "speak" for most Americans. Don't confuse me with the media talent... be it Beck, Palin, or any of those on the left side. When Obama entered into the mosque issue, MSNBC ran several articles from various sources - one of which included a polling of opinions. One such question mimicked my statement and had a very high percentage when compared to those that thought it was unconstitutional (which we know is not the case). In other words, from that poll, the conclusion was drawn that most Americans disagreed with the location and felt it should be elsewhere - but that this majority percentage did also understand that the Constitution did not give them the ability to deny them the ability to build.

Also, that was a very sensible post from you Digitalis. I especially liked the last part... about people exercising their right to be stupid; now if only people didn't turn to the government to save them from when they decide to be stupid, especially the habitual offenders.

Dawn, go ride your horse, I'll deal with the peanut gallery. When you get back you can hold the fort while I take my Collie to the park.

Nice to hear from you as well.

Yea, you're really dealing well with the peanut gallery, skip.

You have yet to address anything. oooo, skip's here. Watch out!

Are you going to start raving about using your real name as a screen name again? That was entertaining, do it again.

LOLOLOL.

Thanks for taking over skip! We have something in common, I just brought home a lovely blue merle collie pup! He is fourteen weeks old. And I am back now, with an observation. Want to see what you think, skip. It isn't so much that Pragmatic, Digitalis or Rat Poison have something new to add to the debate. They want the last word. The fact remains that Rat Poison, whether he wants to admit it or not, did IMPLY (not infer, infer is hearing, imply is speaking.) that he spoke for all Americans, and that neither Pragamatic nor Digatalis can understand that it simply does not matter what polls say, or how New Yorkers, or anyone else feels about it. The Establishment Clause exists, and there is an end to it. It is you, Pragmatic, who posted the link to polls, I am simply telling you that it is a red herring, it simply does not matter. But, I did enjoy my ride, the trees are simply lovely!

Newday - I don't need the last word, I need you to address the issues I'm pointing out, not dodge them repeatedly, before I will relent.

You are THE ONLY PERSON on this thread claiming that opinion overrides the Constitution. I'll try to make it as simple as possible. Do you, or do you NOT agree with the following statement?

Just because people have a Constitutionally protected right to do something, does not make it the right thing to do.

My answer: Yes, I agree with that statement.

How does that statement apply to the mosque and Quran burning? I'll go first, to illistrate a format.

I acknowledge that the builders have the Constitutionally protected right to build their mosque wherever local zoning laws permit, and that the lunatic pastor in FL has the right to burn the Quran protected by the same amendment. I do NOT think either thing is the right thing to do, because both actions are highly offensive to other people, and there are other options.

Here's another one. Do you agree with this statement?

It is wrong to paint all Muslims with a broad brush of radicalism, since only a small percentage of Muslims are radical.

If so, then you must also agree with this statement:

It is wrong to paint all tea party members with a broad brush of racism and bigotry, since only a small percentage of tea party members are racist bigots.

Here's one more. Do you agree with the following statement:

The freedom of speech and peaceful assembly are absolute and apply to all Americans, even if I disagree with the opinions they express.

If so, then you must agree with this statement: The freedom of speech and peaceful assembly applies to tea party members, BUT I disagree with them because _______________________________________________________________________________

And you fill in the blank. No name calling, no accusations of racism, no stereotypes.

Can you do this? I think you can.

And that is where you go wrong, Pragmatic, I simply haven't said that opinion overrides the Constitution. What I said is that feelings don't matter, law does. It is not relevant what people think about building a mosque, church or synagogue anywhere. As to the rest of it? It simply does not matter. The reason you cannot make an argument that the 'tea baggers" are involved in tribalism is that they only made themselves known when we had a President that looked different than other Presidents look. The language they employ is exactly that: "We need to take our country BACK!" A reasonable person responds with "take our country back from what?" Where were they when Bush was in office? Nowhere to be found. I have gone to "tea bagger" gatherings here, and I find these folks to be generally ill informed, both about the founding of this country, and how we got to the place we are in. I have been to town hall meetings with these folks, where they behaved badly, not allowing the constituents question their own representatives. We were all shouted down. So, I posit that the "tea baggers" do damage to themselves. I can't respect the ones I have seen in action, and it is worrisome what will happen to America should any of these people be put in power. It is of interest to me, and I don't know it if it to you, that when I went to those meetings, there were an awful lot of out of state license plates. This is a small town, it is noticeable. The worst thing about this group is that they don't even realize how their emotions are being manipulated by the likes of Dick Armey and his co-conspirators. It is sad, and amusing all the same. But, as much fun as this has been, I simply must be off to the barn to put horses in, and take my new pup to school. Have a good day.

Oh, one more thing...if you start of with false premises, as you do in every question you ask, the questions have no validity. What you were doing is leading to your agenda. I simply chose not to go there.

So you still won't answer the questions directly, and are dodging again by claiming they are invalid.

You went to a tea party meeting or two in a small town and had a negative experience, therefore all tea party members are bad. Got it, more stereotyping, AND you played the race card. And where did you even get the word "tribalism" and what does it mean in this context?

I guess you couldn't do it, after all.

By the way? Tea parties actually started during Ron Paul's run for office - in 2007. CNBCs Rick Santelli suggested reviving them (they had never really died) in protest of big government and big spending ala TARP, which was a Bush initiative. In other words, the tea party movement began well before Obama was even elected, in protest of growing government spending and size under Bush. The fact that it gained momentum after Obama was sworn in is directly attributable to the first two major undertakings of his administration - the massive $867 billion stimulus, the $400 billion omnibus bill, TALF worth over $200 billion, and the expansion of TARP to include the car companies.

The fact that YOU attribute the tea party to Obama looking "different" makes you a racist, not the tea party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKZmIzEMUN8

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/04/ron-paul-tea-party-tea-parties-income-tax.html

People's feelings don't count, okay. I'll remember that next time I read a post from you claiming something is "offensive" that is Constitutionally protected, and be sure to point out that your feelings don't count. Of course they don't count, to people that don't care about other peoples feelings.

But the liberal left has been browbeating everyone in this country to believe that feelings DO count, when it's politically expedient for them. "Politically correct" - orginally known as Newspeak in Orwell's 1984 is NOT a creation of the Conservatives or Republicans. It's very convenient to be able to call people "insensitive" when it gets you money from the government, isn't it, but when asked to extend some modicum of sensitivity to someone you disagree with? Oh hell no.

I'm done. It's pointless.

Mark L-464288: Don't know if anyone else responded to your comment (don't have time to read all of them), but your statement that the poll showed the Tea Party was the most liked and that the reporting was slanted is false. According to the poll, when lumping positive and somewhat positive together and negative or somewhat negative together for all parties, the Democratic party received a 36% rating positive and 43% negative. The Republican party received a 30% positive and 43% negative. The Tea party received a 28% positive and a 36% negative. While it is true that fewer voted them the least hated, they are also the least liked, having the largest percentage of neutrals. The most liked Party is still the Democratic party according to the poll.

If you are going to complain about reporting on a poll, please make sure you read the numbers of the poll itself.

You all miss the point. There is no "Ground Zero Mosque". There is a community-center-with-mosque being built a few blocks away, and a bunch of xenophobes don't want it there, and the fear mongering GOP has scared the masses (like they usually do) into being scared of "the other".

End of story.

The Baggers represent the square root of -1.

MSNBC, the liberal media and the left continue to bash the the Tea Party because they are a threat to all that is near and dear to them. They have been successful in the past of smearing opponents with false claims and using their misleading mantras in all forms of media, that eventually the masses fall for the lies.

It's quite simple, the majority of people who are involved in the Tea Party movement believe that the Government should only be doing what is outlined in the Constitution, Period. I have seen people of all colors at the Tea Party events, I do not believe race is an issue. I will say that there are racists who believe in the Tea Party ideals, just as there are racists who believe in the ideals of the liberal left.

As for the Mosque at Ground Zero. You can call it whatever code word you want, it's still a mosque. Yes it is not violating any laws for it to be built at Ground Zero, but it is very insensitive and inflammatory to most citizens of this country. Just as the burning of the Korans (Qurans) in Florida is legal, it is just as insensitive and inflammatory to most citizens of this country.

For those of you who want a sneak peak at where this country is headed under the liberal left, take a look at California:

• Almost every major political office is the state is held by a Democrat, the state senate and house are held by a majority of Democrats.
• The public employee pensions are massive and unsustainable, There are more public employees per capita in CA than almost anywhere in the country and the public employee unions have the power to block any attempts to thin their ranks.
• The typical compensation package for public employees exceed that of a comparable private sector employee, not including the job security and paid days off (most state workers are exempted from Furlough Fridays)
• The Democratically control house and senate have not been able to pass a budget on time in the last 16 years. Costing millions of dollars in interest payments and lost Federal funding.
• The cost to house inmates in state prisons is the highest in the country due to the high salaries and OT paid to the Correctional Officers (also the highest paid in the country).
• Income & Property taxes are among the highest in the country.
• Businesses are fleeing the state.
• The wealthy working people are fleeing the state (not the hollywood left, though).
• The Governor is really more of a Democrat than a conservative (except he hasn't given in to the Democrats on raising taxes, yet!).
• The cost to build almost anything is outrageous due to all of the permits, fees and environmental requirements.

The reason that manufacturing jobs have left this country is due to excess regulation and taxation on business, as well as the highest labor costs in the world. It's not due to the rich, evil CEO 's.

More Obama, Democrats and Socialist Agenda = Less Freedom and Prosperity.

And the dem party is the party of thugs, drugs, and hair plugs

Jeffersonwasright: Spin and lies about California. Californa CERTAINLY has it's share of rethuglicans, who also take blame for some of CA's issues. A simple internet search proves you wrong.

"In the (state government) 2007–2008 session, there were 48 Democrats and 32 Republicans in the Assembly. In the Senate, there are 25 Democrats and 15 Republicans. The governor is Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger." wikipedia

For congress, it's 34-19, and obviously 2 famous democrats in the Senate.

So if you think Schwarzenneger is considered a democrat, does that mean you are admitting that the crazy right wing have taken over the GOP? Since Schwarzenneger is almost universally (outside of the crazy right wing) considered a moderate republican?

newday - It's very difficult for anybody to move on to a new point or part of any discussion when the other half participating in that discussion is ignoring or failing to make retorts based on the others statements. Despite how you may have wanted to interpret my statement, my biggest mistake was assuming you were aware of the varying public opinions surrounding the mosque - but as you have keenly ignored, polls show that my statement tends to be similar to most Americans regarding it. This does not mean I speak for them as you suggest - however, because language is an imperfect form of communication and based on the previous assumption, I can see how a pompous +++ would draw that conclusion to spite a person - and then adamantly defend it as reasonable despite a very simple explanation.

Beverly, I suggest you look up the meaning of "Tea Bagger" once you know the meaning you might be describing yourself. The people involved with the Tea party do "get it" and are very concerned about the condition of the Republic. They have a strong desire to make changes in both the Senate and the House along with future change of the totally unqualified and inept person presently occupying the White House. The only thing this guy can do is bash George Bush and the Republican Party when in reality all Obama is qualified to be is a street organizer.

You need to do some reading about the issues and the economy over the last 10 years before you run you uneducated mouth off about the Tea Party, because you are the one not "GETTING IT".

If there is a rise in the negative perception regarding Tea Parties it is mainly because dimwits like you and the rest of the left wing loons who are scared out of wits about the power of the Tea Party and believe the Tea party is growing and there will be changes aplenty going to happen and there is nothing you left wing loons can do about but cry or better yet move!

"Ye know the truth and the truth shall make you free", read and watch something else other then this Liberal palaver that has permeated and damaged your brain. I hope this was enlightening and insightful for you because you are in need of some help.

No, Political_observer, let me speak only for myself, a happy Liberal. I am not the least bit fearful of the "tea baggers". I feel sorry for them, it is sad that they have so little knowledge of the founding of the country. But, fear, ummmm, no. Just wish they would attempt to educate themselves.

If the tea party people are so smart and competent, why cannot they use their intelligence and competence to improve their ratings??

RatPoison, if the rethugs win, there will be a great depression. Make sure you have enough savings to survive.

All the rhetoric about small government just demonstrates a complete lack of the ability to think things through. I suspect if you went through a list of all the things provided or done by the government and asked which ones they wanted to eliminate, they would realize that they take a lot for granted and don't even think about it. (Food safety and pharmaceutical testing come to mind.)

Absolutely. This is the exact same agenda of the John Birch Society that sensible Conservatives like Barry Goldwater and William F Buckley publicly disowned in the 1960s, walking like some horrible zombie into our world 45 years later. Of course Fred Koch was one of the founders of the JBS so it should come as no surprise that his sons now pour vast amounts of money into the Conservative Movement to reanimate these crazy ideas.

Name one program the government runs efficiently?

So, what you're saying, basically, is that I should work long hours to support the lower income groups through the taxes that the government takes before I even receive my paycheck? (Of course, those of us who work for a living are doing this already.) Why? Please give me a good, logical reason why.

Watt: No program -- public or private -- is 100% efficient. You can probably name a government program that is run inefficiently. Someone else can name a private program that is run for no reason other than to skin its customers. You need to think through what you mean by "efficiently."

gaylep: Who is saying that you "should work long hours to support the lower income groups"? Nobody. It's a straw man fallacy. All of us who pay taxes do, of course, help provide a safety net for the poorest among us, without which we would have a third-world country with beggars on the streets.

If you're thinking of the big entitlement programs that take a huge chunk out of the federal budget -- Social Security and Medicare -- you'll realize of course that these have already been paid into by beneficiaries, and are now being paid for by those who will be beneficiaries later, like you. That's a contract we've made with the government. Ditto for unemployment, except that these benefits are temporary and don't allow us to live at our usual level because they're smaller than our regular salaries.

Your positions look a little like Social Darwinism. Let the righteous succeed and flourish, and let the losers sink, starve, and become extinct. Aside from the fact that in the view of most people this is immoral and that no civilized society permits this natural selection, can you tell us how Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian deserve to survive?

i am a rep and if I could I would vote for a dem over that two faced McCain. Don't talk about rep's as if we only vote the ticket. We are smarter than a lot of people who vote along a line amd proudly proclaim their ignorance. The greater majority of the citizens of this republic want and demand a return to the constitution and the bill of rights which the present administration is trying their best to ignore. How can you as an AMERICAN citizen back anyone who says the constitution is nothing but an outdated piece of paper. The present president and the last president stated this as has the speaker of the house and last but not least the Senate maj leader. These people{all of them} need to be booted from office and some of them tried for treason. WAKE UP AND GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND . OR YOU WILL WAKE UP ON A COLLECTIVE FARM ONE DAY WONDERING WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR RIGHTS

You are so locked into the democrat / republican belief system that you cannot see that the Tea Party is something completely different. George Bush and the rest of his gang were not fiscally responsible or enacted smaller government. They were just like democrats. Tax and spend and increase the size of government. Tea Party is something different. less government, actually lay off government employes and shut down programs that have little impact.

tertim
i am a rep and if I could I would vote for a dem over that two faced McCain. Don't talk about rep's as if we only vote the ticket. We are smarter than a lot of people who vote along a line amd proudly proclaim their ignorance. The greater majority of the citizens of this republic want and demand a return to the constitution and the bill of rights which the present administration is trying their best to ignore.

Who is violating the constitution? All you have to do is take them to court. The courts are full of repubs.

Jody, you're lying. The Republicans are NOT campaigning to dismantle SS, or privatize it for that matter.

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/sep/02/democratic-exaggerations-about-privatizing-social-/

Various Democratic claims on this issue = BARELY TRUE.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/aug/18/barack-obama/barack-obama-claims-republican-leaders-plan-privat/

Obama HIMSELF lied. He gets a barely true as well, since there is ONE Republican supporting the OPTION of privatizing a small PORTION of a person's SS contributions. He knows damn well that this failed under Bush, with a Republican majority and will fail again. But hey, never let an opportunity to demonize the opposition FALSELY go by unused, right?

Can you cite more that one or two Republicans campaigning on ending all of those programs you CLAIM Republicans as a whole will end if they're elected? And try to go beyond the lunatic fringe of Sharon Angle if you can. The voters in that state really shot themselves in the foot on that one.

In summary, once again you're engaging in the same exact behavior you decry in everyone else.

Making sweeping generalizations about a small part of a group and applying it to the entire group, aka lying.

This is why you're (generally speaking, not just Jody) loosing the argument. Dems are running away from health care and the stimulus, Obama, Pelosi and Reid, and touting no votes on same. They can't run on their record, so they're stretching the truth about the opposition.

watt75: The question isn't "Do they run it efficiently". The question is, do you trust big business to police itself? Because it has proven time and time again that it can't. Energy, pharmaceuticals, military-industrial segments, I could go on. If you don't like the way the government is run, you have opportunity to run yourself, or vote for change. Perhaps someone else can come in and run it more efficiently. It happens in government just as it does in business.

tertim: Obama and the others have not called the Constitution an outdated piece of paper. Why do you persist in these falsehoods. Obama is in fact the only President we've ever had that has training in constitutional law (excepting of course those early Presidents involved in actually writing it). Bush blatantly violated the constitution, did you scream about that then? Numerous constistutional law scholars have stated how Bush tried chaning or just ignoring the constitution when it fit his purposes. It is not the Democrats who are campaigning for a repeal of the 17th Amendment. Unlike the last President, who only claimed to respect the constitution, we finally have someone who actually does, and moreover, actually knows what it says.

If Obama respects the Constitution, then why did he renew the Patriot Act, one of the biggest potential Constitutional violations of the Bush administration?

I was personally very disappointed when he did that.

I am sure that you voted for bush twice and cheered him all along until his last day in office.

If president Obama had not renewed the patriot act, you and all the other repubs would have been criticizing him 24/7.

Another typical liberal fail. Assume that because you disagree with someone, they must be a Republican.

Since you started your post with a false assumption, it is rendered meaningless in its entirety.

Acidrain,

Spin and lies about California. Californa CERTAINLY has it's share of rethuglicans, who also take blame for some of CA's issues. A simple internet search proves you wrong.

"In the (state government) 2007–2008 session, there were 48 Democrats and 32 Republicans in the Assembly. In the Senate, there are 25 Democrats and 15 Republicans. The governor is Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger." wikipedia

For congress, it's 34-19, and obviously 2 famous democrats in the Senate.

So if you think Schwarzenneger is considered a democrat, does that mean you are admitting that the crazy right wing have taken over the GOP? Since Schwarzenneger is almost universally (outside of the crazy right wing) considered a moderate republican?

Where are the lies?

What did you find on the internet that proves me wrong?

If you read what I wrote, I said the Democrats control the house and senate in California. Your information just confirms that. The Republicans are culpable in the budget delay, but in a good way. The have prevented the Democrats jacking up taxes & fees even higher than they already are. The Democrats are simply unable or unwilling to accept the fact that there is a spending problem in the state. The Democrats have never seen a tax increase they don't like. Rather than work with the Republicans, the Democrats instead put forth ballot measures to reduce the required majority to increase taxes from the current 2/3 majority to a simple majority. Hopefully that doesn't pass!

As far as Schwarzenneger goes, in my opinion (remember, we're allowed to have an opinion in this country!) many of his ideas are definitely left of center. In his defense, he has realized that gov't spending and union dominance (unsustainable pensions & benefits) in the state workforce is a major problem and has taken a stand against those. He has, however, agreed to raising some taxes and fees and to borrowing money to close the deficit. That money (plus interest) will have to be paid back at some point in time.

I must also correct myself, I said, "The Democratically control house and senate have not been able to pass a budget on time in the last 16 years." It's actually 25 out of the last 30 years. But the people of this state continue to accept it.

Finally, if you talk to almost anyone who works in government and I mean the actual worker bees, they will give you numerous examples of waste, inefficiencies and minimally productive workers. There is no incentive in government to reduce or eliminate waste, inefficiencies and minimally productive workers. Because the more they spend, the more they get the next year. I worked for a consulting firm doing Construction Management mostly on Gov't projects. In 2005, we had 60 people working out of our local office. In 2008, when I was laid off, there were 9 people left. Something like that would never happen in Government. There was no gift from the Federal Gov't to allow me to keep my job, nor should there be for anyone else, public or private.

I'm not sure what your point was, but thanks for allowing me to clarify.

"I must also correct myself, I said, "The Democratically control house and senate have not been able to pass a budget on time in the last 16 years." It's actually 25 out of the last 30 years. But the people of this state continue to accept it."

"The Republicans are culpable in the budget delay, but in a good way."

There's your spin. Grandstanding Obstructionist Party, indeed.

Without question the Tea Party is nothing more than the radical wing of the Republican Party, rebranded to try to look like something new instead of the same, tired Conservative ideas that have never worked in the real world.

The Tea Party is not a political party. It is a group of people with the general idea that we should get more in line with the constitution in a Jerffersonion. Less governement programs / control, lowering taxes, and fiscal responsibility. People do not think about it but as a country we are indebted to the Chinese. They are supporting our social structure. Without their money (in loans) social security and welfare would not have money to pay out.

All you liberal crackpots want a handout and hard-working Americas to pay for it. obummers stimilus package was a bust and you all are still living in la-la land.

Mike, Maybe you should go back and study Thomas Jefferson a tad bit. He was a very radical thinker who among many of his other ideas was to redistribute the land every fifteen years.

Mike, what Jefferson would have liked is a weak central government, with most of the power vested in agricultural communes. He would have approved of the Israeli kibbutz. But that was no more possible then, than it is now. We're too big. We're too diverse. The Constitution was written partly because the original agreement, the Articles of Confederation, left the federal government with too little power to hold the country together and local rebellions were taking place here and there, sometimes with outbreaks of shooting.

Power vested in the states didn't help much either. It led to a civil war and later to civil rights abuses.

What the Tea Party movement seems to want is lower taxes, a smaller national debt, less government spending and a reduction of government bloat -- which ALL of us want. But they lack leadership and a positive agenda. Which programs -- exactly -- do they want to eliminate? Which would they like to cut, and by how much?

The top personal income tax bracket in the prosperous 1950s was more than 90% and the wealthy managed to stay wealthy. Under Clinton it was 39%. With the temporary cuts under Bush it is 35%. We're all for low taxes but how low would the Tea Party like them to go? To 20%? Ten percent? Zero?

And you're entirely right that the Chinese are funding our economy. We've borrowed heavily from them for the past ten years or so. That's how you fund two monstrously expensive wars in the Middle East while reducing taxes. And you're right that "people do not think about it." At least they didn't think about it until January, 2009, the day that Barack Obama took office. Since then, everybody's suddenly come to the realization that we owe money to China, more than to any other country. And we owe money to a LOT of other countries. We're a debtor country to MEXICO.

When taxes rise, as Bush's temporary cuts expire, it won't be because Obama willed it. President Bush signed an agreement that they should expire and that rates should go up. It isn't "Obama's tax increase." It was mandated ten years ago. As it is, the cuts may continue for those making less than a quarter of a million a year, but the taxes will rise from 35% to 39% for those making more than that. It makes sense. Poorer people spend money and get it into circulation, which is good for business and for everyone else. Those who are wealthy enough to not need it can stick it in a bank vault or buy PetroChina stock.

Robert Maxwell,

What Jefferson was in favor of was pushing the government decision making down to the lowest level. By that, he (and the other founders of this Country) envisioned that decisions would be made by those closest to the people. Which is typically the best way to understand the issues and build consensus.

One of the biggest problems we have are bureucrats in Washington and the state capitols making decisions for the people without understanding the issues faced at a local level. Much like the one size fits all approach to healthcare. To address the needs of a minority of people, we are blowing up a system that the majority of people in the country were happy with. Putting government bureaucrats in control of something they know nothing about. It's a power and control grab plain and simple. Obama, Pelosi and Reid do not care about the common person (except at election time), they care about power and control, period.

Bush did what should be done with almost all legislation. That is to enact legislation for a limited period of time and if it's truly something valuable, then in can be voted on and approved as appropriate. Now it's up to Obama and the Democrats to do the correct thing and extend tax cuts for all.

Oh, I don't believe the Chinese will let Americans buy into their government controlled oil company.

Well, okay. The government is big and bloated and federal laws are a patchwork of loopholes and corrections and Jefferson was influenced by Rousseau. It's all true.

We ought to try to identify the problem, which is systemic and definitely not limited to Pelosi and the rest of the Democrats. Spending on lobbyists doubled between 2000 and 2008. http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/spending-on-lobbying-doubled-from-2000.html.

We had a general overthrow of Congress in 1994, called a contract with America, and propelled by a plan to introduce term limits, cap contributions from lobbyists, limit congressional pay raises and perks, and otherwise reform the corruption in the government. Once elected, the reformers came to realize those weren't such good ideas after all.

As for Bush's temporary tax cuts, enacted just after he took office, look where they took the economy and the national debt. Worked just fine.

I currently own a few shares of PetroChina, sold on the Hong Kong exchange.

Haa haa 1/5 of the nation, thus far; Ron. I agree with Fiesty and Jody.

Jody is right

They're not voting FOR, Vet, they're voting AGAINST. Whatever they don't understand.

And there's plenty of it.

Good comment Anna Molly! The real problem is not the economy, it's education. We have created a too big to fail education system. We hand everyone a meaningless piece of paper (diploma) but are not really sure if the student has learned anything, or if he's qualified to get a job in a field where he's needed.

This is a bit off subject, but if we only need, hypothetically, 50% of our citizens to create 100% of what we need to live, then the other half, if we expect them to find work, will have to be involved in some activity that is unnecessary. Up until the present day, the percentage of people working in agriculture, or heavy industry, was far greater. Now add in the fact that most of the rest of the world is now capable of competing with us in these areas. We must create new fields of mass employment, or stop the population growth, and/or start training people to do manicures.

You have that right son. All liberal attacks against them have failed and will continue to do so. They have been labelled "astroturf", "racist", radical, "mostly white", "insurgent" by a liberal media that is flumoxed because most people in the country now don't believe what the media elite want them to believe.

I'd love to believe you, Ron, but the liberal elite media told me not to.

Then please follow your elitist followers. By all means

the irony of teabaggers ranting against the "liberal media" while simultaneously getting their marching orders from Fox News is palpable...

Try to remember. Ron, and if you remember, then follow. That makes just about as much sense as what you just said. And it even has a tune.

It'll probably work well enough to steal some seats in November, but falling poll numbers before the Tea Partiers have even one an election doesn't speak well of their future.

What a refreshing, new message they carry. "Elite, Liberal media." It's a Republican/Conservative message as fresh as Spiro Agnew.

Well Molly you can listen to the idiots at MSNBC or you cant start to think for yourself. Up to you.

al15998, Well here we go again, no facts, no examples, no reasons.............and no reason to think you have any.

the irony of left wing nut jobs ranting against the "fox news" while simultaneously getting their marching orders from msnbc News is palpable...

"Rwraith1" ~ Been hanging around Mordor recently? How's my old buddy Angmar doing?

Is Fox liberal? It would seem they have an agenda too.

Anna Molly...what in the world are you doing on here pretending to be an elitist member? Have you changed your mind yet again? Jeezzzzz, you're worse than a tumble bug at a manure factory...never know which ball you're going to run with. Hee hee, love the smoke screen tho...you have some lapping up every word so it's working!

You know as well as I do that teabagging is a great thing

Really? ~ Tell us more.

seems to me the "free spirited" left is more in tune with "teabagging" than the right, myself I think the left has major "bagging" envy.

LINKS???

Not me. I'm too busy chastising the tea party movement.

I am too busy ENJOYING my tea.

How many lumps do you want?

Of course. If you do not slobber over Obama, you are a racist. that is a proven and undeniable fact. How could it be otherwise??

"Outof Ajob

Here is my "leftwingmorgifier" interpretation of what you just said: "blah blah blah blah hate minorities blah blah hate the poor blah blah pro multinational conglomerate blah blah love George W. Bush blah"."

You should apply for the job of leftwingmorgifier, but then you would still be

"Outof Ajob".

I'm sure that the Republicans will find you a job, once they assume power in January.
They will use their standard massive job creation theory, tax cuts for the rich.
It works every time, like under Reagan, GHWBush and his idiot son.
As a matter of fact, tax cuts for the rich is the answer to all problems facing this country.
If the problem can't be cured with tax cuts, for the rich, then it can't be fixed.

Oh, Golly, Ron, I guess that makes ME a racist, too. Who knew?

They advocate taking away our civil rights. What isn't extreme about that?

They don't like naked wealth transfers like ObamaCare (under the guise of being humanitarian).

I see.

But it seems that the Tea Party DOES like the naked wealth transfers known as the Bush Tax Cuts.

You cannot have it both ways, can you?

Your funny to pietro. lets see that little transfer as you call it produced 57 months of economic growth to the US economy, almost 5 years of continual growth, but its amazing how liberals forget that little figure. Wasn't until Democrats took over congress that everything started to go down the tubes.

AL151998 - you are the amusing one if you think that there was 57 months of economic growth. NOW we are dealing with record deficits. It is pretty evident that the 'growth' you espouse was not sustainable and it was a 'bubble' that burst right before President Obama took office.

If this was NOT the case, was TARP REALLY necessary?

Pietro,

But it seems that the Tea Party DOES like the naked wealth transfers known as the Bush Tax Cuts.

You cannot have it both ways, can you?

WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Wealth Transfer, or Redistribution of Wealth is when the Government takes money (typically in the form of taxes & fees) from one person who has earned it and gives the money to another person who has not earned it. It's a one way street, there is no "both ways" to this equation. It's that simple.

A tax cut reduces the amount of money taken from the first person. IT WAS THEIR MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE!! They are not taking anything, they are keeping more of what was theirs all along.

A conservative is in favor of allowing someone to keep more of the money that they rightfully earn. A liberal is in favor of big government and if it means destroying the incentive for anyone to achieve any sort of financial prosperity on their own, so much the better, right?

You (and Obama, Reid & Pelosi) obviously subscribe to the belief that, "If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." I can't take credit for that one, that was Reagan's astute view of government. Sounds a lot like our current administration doesn't it?

A tax cut reduces the amount of money taken from the first person. IT WAS THEIR MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE!! They are not taking anything, they are keeping more of what was theirs all along.

Do you know what """externalities""" mean?????

By "practical", do you mean committed to work in a "bipartisan" way within the statist framework and lexicon to usurp the constitution and serve only as a mild brake to slow the transformation of the U.S. into a fully socialist democratic back water like most of the EU, or some other form of "practical"?

Melissa - out of curiosity - since you were a Republican - what WOULD you do in the midterms? Wo WOULD you vote for?

I take from your post that you would not really vote for this current crop of Republicans; I am assuming that you would probably NOT vote for Democrats.

It seems you are a bit of a quandry, no?

I thik that a lot of moderate Republicans are sitting out there scratching their heads right now. I am thinking that they really want to vote Republican, but the extreme positions are making them pause.

Can you shed any light on this situation?

"bill clint

The tea party has no Platform or none that I am aware of."

Another good reason for the Tea Party to merge with the Republican party.

The Republican party doesn't have a Platform, either.

swschrand,

I agree 100 %. :-)

Yes like the Democrats before them. Oh how short your memory is.

"boba-893372

The tea party people are a bunch of nut cases,they haven't a clue what they really want."

When you speak of the tea party, please say "Tea/Republican Party" as it is hard to tell where one ends and the other begins.

Since the Republicans aren't distancing themselves from tea party, we must assume that there is a close, if not symbiotic relationship.

Just look at the Sarah. She was the leader of the Republican party, but now wears the 2nd hat as the head of the Tea Party, a title she, now, must share with Glenn Beck.

Puddleduck,

sorry, you are right about that point, maybe we can call them teapublicans or just teacans. you know the old saying (no offense to you) but if it walks like a duck,quacks like a duck and leaves duck poop all over the place it has to be a duck,same with them just a different name for the same party.

"keepertrout

Tea sippers shouldn't have hooked up with those repubs in the first place . Repubs stand for everything they're against....but they seemed to have swallowed the lies hook, line and sinker. Those lies shoved down their throats may get them to snap out of it, but I doubt it."

No, I want those Republicans to keep saying "me, too", every time a Tea Party nut case opens his or her mouth.

The Republicans have moved so far to the right, now, that if Ronald Reagan were running in the Republican presidential primary, he would be rejected because he is too liberal.

I want to see just how far the Tea Party can push the Republican party to the right, until the rubber band snaps and the voters regain their common sense. We may have to wait, though, until the 2012 election.

"Please_NObama

The press will create an anti-tea party wave even if it does not exist."

And the downside is.....?

Just who do you think started the tea party movement?

Oh, yeah, it is a spontaneous "grass roots" movement, that just happened to be started by Dick Armey and funded by the Koch brothers, and promoted by Fox News.

So much for "grass roots".

And moveon.org was started and funded by George Soros, the Huffington Post by multi-millionaire Adriana Huffington, etc etc etc etc.

More hypocrisy.

I'm a hell of a lot more impresed by him than that radical wingnut Sharron Angle from Nevada. She was voted Nevada's worst state politician four years in a row, and says that a rape victim should be made to bear the product of that vile act because "it's God's plan for her".

Seems you have been drinking the Tea and don't really have a clue, as to what the Tea Party stands for.

The Tea Party's agenda is the same as for corporate America, since it is some of richest billionaires in the country that started it.

Smaller government, cut taxes, do away with the IRS, stop ObamaCare, stop Cap and Trade.

Hmmm...I wonder who stands to benefit the most if these dreams could come true?

economykiller

The only thing the tea party wants is decent honest people in office. As a voter who has voted Democrat, Republican and Independent, I happen to agree. I don't care what party or no party, I just want to have a government Of the People, For the People and By the People. Today it is corporations and lobbyists that elected officials represent.

Yea Riiiight. that's why that drag people off the street who they know nothing about like disgraced Rick Scott of Columbia/HCA. Rick Scott company was one of many health care executives who saw their companies accused of Medicare fraud.Then their is Dick Armey's Asrtoturf group lobbying-run front groups, along with promotion help from Fox News. Tea Baggers who have not an iota of a clue as to how they are being used as they go along for the Free Bus rides.

Are you aware another Tea Bagger, Rachel Brown, from some some obsurce domain is challeging Barney Frank? That 's Right. The one Barney Frank referred to as a dining room table when questioned at a town hall last year about the "Nazi policy" of health care reform.

Frank said---"I regard her as an example of the price you pay for free speech," . "I don't think she is very rational.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/06/barney-frank-rachel-brown-primary-dining-room-table_n_706726.html

Neither do I. econo killer

The only thing the tea party wants is decent honest people in office.

Oh really?

Let's see - we have:

Rand Paul - for KY; Sharron Angle for NV; here are two well known examples.

Are these two examples of 'decent, honest people'? Is this a representative of 'decent, honest people' in the Tea Party?? The same 'decent, honest people' that are unwilling to answer ANY questions or to explain their positions openly?

THOSE 'decent, honest people'???

"The Democrats over the past 1.5 plus years have bent us over and are having their way with us holding our jobs hostage because they want to screw with the businesses.... You know the ones who actually DO pay the taxes and employ us. They will not employ us if they have no idea what is coming and I can't blame them."

Really? Then why do the Republicans keep saying NO to the legislation, already in Congress, that will give more tax breaks to small businesses and make it easier for them to borrow money?

The Republicans keep saying that it is small businesses that create the most jobs, but they don't want to give Obama a victory by actually helping the small businesses create more jobs. That would make the Republicans look bad in November, if the unemployment rate were to come down.

If you are unemployed, thank a Republican.

Devlin7 - you do havea choice you know. You could WALK AWAY from those 'Government handouts' if you feel so strongly about them.

Right now, the Government is doing what it is supposed to - HELP those that are in need.

The Republicans for the past 20 months have done ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to help you (if you are indeed the working poor). They have obstructed and blocked Unemployment insurance TWICE this year, and relented when the public pressure got too great.

SO, tell me where they have helped the working poor?

There are 300 bills sitting on a shelf in the Senate, and there are many bills that will actually help spur economic growth (there is a Jobs bill that is there to help small business that is not even being brought to the floor).

So where have the Republicans helped the working poor?

They have said NO on just about everything. They have blocked appointments. They had no plan for Health Care Reform and President Obama cleaned their clock. These Healthcare reform issues will preclude Insurance Companies from denying you coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.

The Republicans? voted NO on all of that.

Dear Hemi! Small business is only going to hire new workers for one reason.........demand. What can we do to increase demand? Unless you tell me otherwise, I assume your way is to spend time writing negative comments with foul language on the internet. Now it just might be smart to somehow put the majority of Americans in a position to BUY something. Hmmmmm how do we do that? Call your local grocery store and ask them to lower their prices? nah,

How about a huge government jobs program building solar power plants in the dessert? Windmills too! And a grid system to deliver the power to all of America. Lots of jobs, no oil spills. Only accept bids from American companies who hire American workers.

Maybe you like the idea, maybe you don't.......if not , tell me why,and then tell me your ideas. I want to move America forward and not back to 1850. If you think that pure capitalism is going to fix this mess, I'll help you with your Christmas list that your going to mail to the North Pole.

We will be playing chicken again, as when the Republicans were in charge, during the Clinton administration.

They will threaten to shut the government down, if they don't get the legislation that they want.

It didn't work for them under Clinton and I just hope Obama has cahones as big as Clinton's and can just say NO to the Republican agenda, that put us where we are today.

One only has to read Hemi-Man's post to see the tribalism present in those are a part of the "tea baggers". This isn't about smaller government, nor has it ever been about that. It is about fear. We have to thank Hemi Man for making so apparent what some of us have always recognized. If the "tea baggers" were truly concerned about the deficit, about taxes about whatever their raison du jour is, they would have been out in force during the Cheney/Bush administration. That we see their small, rather pedestrian movement now is due only to the Presidency being held by a Democratic President of mixed race. They can't stand it.

Our choice was Obama/Biden or John (the maverick)McCain/Palin.

I think the Democrats could have run Alvin Greene for president and won against that Republican ticket.

McCain would have continued the failed policies of Bush and a Republican congress would have helped him do it.

The last nail in the coffin that was McCain's campaign is when he mouthed off against the Bush bank bailout, when the rest of the country was for it.

We all learned then that he was out of touch with the economy.

Republicans then jumped the sinking USS McCain and voted for Obama.

So, if the question is "are we better off?". The answer is "yes, because we would be in even worse shape had McCain/Palin been elected".

I'm just happy that I won't have to live thru a great depression as my parents and grandparents did.

FedupwithFed,

I think the public and the republicans in general don't get it, not the party big wiggs but the general party, Putting Obama himself a side because he's just one man look at the things the republicans want. tax cuts,if they cut them to 0% across the board fed,local and state and you made 20 bucks an hr, would you be better off? one would think so.but and it's a big but they also want to do away with all social programs and medical on top of it.they want your health care run and paid for by you,not the goverment or the employer but by you,they say health care is each individuals responsibility not business's or the goverment,now studies show that health insurance cost for a family of four is about 18000.00 per year on a employee group plan, not counting deductables. so if you made 41,600 a year with no tax's what so ever you contribute almost 50% of your earnings just to insurance and that's just if no one gets sick or injured. now if you have 21000.00 left over form your pay how much are you going to save,remember your a family of 4.you need food,housing,transportation and all of lifes little needs like clothing and school supplies,utilities ect: remamber they want to do away with social security so your on your own for old age. if your 35 years old and manage to save 5000.00 a month for 30 years,which i doubt anyone could do but lets say you do, you have a grand total of 150,000 put away at age 65 sounds like a lot but now you 65 and not so healthy any more so medical is more,you still have to pay for your insurance because they want to do away with medicare and medcaide too.and you still need housing,food,transportation,clothing,utilities ect: looking at just those things and hoping for the best,which won't happen because tax's will never be 0% your real income would really be more like 13.00 per hr after real tax's. tell me whose head is really in the sand and which party is looking after the people to make sure this never happens. this is what the tea party/republicans have for a goal for this country.lower tax's and you pay your own way reguardless of wether you can or not,Don't forget they also want to do away with food stamps and welfare so you couldn't even turn to those if it got bad.

Health insurance HAS gone up dramaticly be cause of the obama administration. You are worried about your costs but have not said one thing about the cost of living under this horrifying administration.

Has it ever occured to you that corperations do not pay taxes they collect them from you?

The obama tax increases on the so called wealthy will increase the cost of living.

Cap and trade will increase the cost of living.

Vat taxes will increase the cost of living.

Tax on oil products will not only increase the cost of living but at the same time it will loose this country 60.000 jobs.

How much more can this country take of the never ending spending and cost increases?

More tax payers paying less taxes is more suportive of this country then to increase our costs so high we will all be living in the streets and while i sympathize with you collecting your welfare check when the money is gone it is gone and you have the democrats making this country to expencive to compete with the world.

It is much better to have many hands paying taxes then the few that will struggle to survive.

Tax the rich.........they made their money off the entire society. They won't miss it anyway, but we will.

boba, have you ever seen what is purchased with food stamps? Soda, chips, cookies, junk food that should be done without if you cant afford to feed yourself. As far as welfare....whats wrong with getting off ones butt and getting a job? Why should I work 2 jobs to support a bunch of lazy AZZ'S?

Amen, luvenia. I'll be popping the popcorn to watch this circus! This will ensure an Obama re-election in 2012, Hillary to follow.

Amen, luvenia.

What great accomplishments should they sling the great PR about? Please do name a few.

TJefferson, kind of behind times aren't you. Howard Dean is not the head of the DNC anymore. How are you going to over throw someone who holds no office. No wonder you voted for Obama, you don't even know who runs your own party.

If you read carefully what I said, I made the separation between the DNC and Dean. Dean is still very much involved in senior level, decision making in the DNC even though he holds no official office. But, you are correct. I should have been more specific in my criticism of the current Chairperson, Tim Kaine and the DNC.

And you came back here to post that little defense about Dean without listing a single accomplishment that is worth disseminating PR about. Enough said. Go back to sleep.

"Outof Ajob

What great accomplishments should they sling the great PR about? Please do name a few."

Here are a few of Obama's accomplishments. Please feel free to take the time to poo-poo every one of them.

1. Ordered all federal agencies to undertake a study and make recommendations for ways to cut spending
2. Ordered a review of all federal operations to identify and cut wasteful spending and practices
3. Instituted enforcement for equal pay for women
4. Beginning the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq
5. Families of fallen soldiers have expenses covered to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB
6 Ended media blackout on war casualties; reporting full information
7. Ended media blackout on covering the return of fallen soldiers to Dover AFB; the media is now permitted to do so pending adherence to respectful rules and approval of fallen soldier’s family
8. The White House and federal government are respecting the Freedom of Information Act
9. Instructed all federal agencies to promote openness and transparency as much as possible
10. Limits on lobbyist’s access to the White House
11. Limits on White House aides working for lobbyists after their tenure in the administration
12. Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date
13. Phasing out the expensive F-22 war plane and other outdated weapons systems, which weren’t even used or needed in Iraq/Afghanistan
14. Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research
15. Federal support for stem-cell and new biomedical research
16. New federal funding for science and research labs
17. States are permitted to enact federal fuel efficiency standards above federal standards
18. Increased infrastructure spending (roads, bridges, power plants) after years of neglect
19. Funds for high-speed, broadband Internet access to K-12 schools
20. New funds for school construction
21 The prison at Guantanamo Bay is being phased out
22. US Auto industry rescue plan
23. Housing rescue plan
24. $789 billion economic stimulus plan
25. The public can meet with federal housing insurers to refinance (the new plan can be completed in one day) a mortgage if they are having trouble paying
26. US financial and banking rescue plan
27. The secret detention facilities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere are being closed
28. Ended the previous policy; the US now has a no torture policy and is in compliance with theGeneva Convention standards
29. Better body armor is now being provided to our troops
30. The missile defense program is being cut by $1.4 billion in 2010
31. Restarted the nuclear nonproliferation talks and building back up the nuclear inspection infrastructure/protocols
32. Reengaged in the treaties/agreements to protect the Antarctic
33. Reengaged in the agreements/talks on global warming and greenhouse gas emissions
34. Visited more countries and met with more world leaders than any president in his first six months in office
35. Successful release of US captain held bySomali pirates; authorized the SEALS to do their job
36. US Navy increasing patrols off Somali coast
37. Attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles
38. Cash for clunkers program offers vouchers to trade in fuel inefficient, polluting old cars for new cars; stimulated auto sales
39. Announced plans to purchase fuel efficient American-made fleet for the federal government
40. Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children
41. Signed national service legislation; expandednational youth service program
42. Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return home to visit loved ones
43. Ended the previous policy of not regulating and labeling carbon dioxide emissions
44. Expanding vaccination programs
45. Immediate and efficient response to the floods in North Dakota and other natural disasters
46. Closed offshore tax safe havens
47. Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals
48. Ended the previous policy of offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource American jobs; the new policy is to promote in-sourcing to bring jobs back
49.. Ended the previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry’s predatory practices
50. Energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce 15% of their energy from renewable sources
51. Lower drug costs for seniors
52. Ended the previous practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug manufacturers for cheaper drugs; the federal government is now realizing hundreds of millions in savings
53. Increasing pay and benefits for military personnel
54. Improved housing for military personnel
55. Initiating a new policy to promote federal hiring of military spouses
56. Improved conditions at Walter Reed Military Hospital and other military hospitals
57 Increasing student loans
58. Increasing opportunities in AmeriCorps program
59. Sent envoys to Middle East and other parts of the world that had been neglected for years; reengaging in multilateral and bilateral talks and diplomacy
60. Established a new cyber security office
61. Beginning the process of reforming and restructuring the military 20 years after the Cold War to a more modern fighting force; this includes new procurement policies, increasing size of military, new technology and cyber units and operations, etc.
62. Ended previous policy of awarding no-bid defense contracts
63. Ordered a review of hurricane and natural disaster preparedness
64. Established a National Performance Officer charged with saving the federal government money and making federal operations more efficient
65. Students struggling to make college loan payments can have their loans refinanced
66. Improving benefits for veterans
67. Many more press conferences and town halls and much more media access than previous administration
68. Instituted a new focus on mortgage fraud
69. The FDA is now regulating tobacco
70. Ended previous policy of cutting the FDA and circumventing FDA rules
71. Ended previous practice of having White House aides rewrite scientific and environmental rules, regulations, and reports
72. Authorized discussions with North Korea and private mission by Pres. Bill Clinton to secure the release of two Americans held in prisons
73. Authorized discussions with Myanmar and mission by Sen. Jim Web to secure the release of an American held captive
74. Making more loans available to small businesses
75. Established independent commission to make recommendations on slowing the costs of Medicare
76. Appointment of first Latina to the Supreme Court
77. Authorized construction/opening of additional health centers to care for veterans
78. Limited salaries of senior White House aides; cut to $100,000
79. Renewed loan guarantees for Israel
80. Changed the failing/status quo military command in Afghanistan
81. Deployed additional troops to Afghanistan
82. New Afghan War policy that limits aerial bombing and prioritizes aid, development of infrastructure, diplomacy, and good government practices by Afghans
83. Announced the long-term development of a national energy grid with renewable sources and cleaner, efficient energy production
84. Returned money authorized for refurbishment of White House offices and private living quarters
85. Paid for redecoration of White House living quarters out of his own pocket
86. Held first Seder in White House
87. Attempting to reform the nation’s healthcare system which is the most expensive in the world yet leaves almost 50 million without health insurance and millions more under insured
88. Has put the ball in play for comprehensive immigration reform
89. Has announced his intention to push for energy reform
90. Has announced his intention to push for education reform

91. The Matthew Shepard Act, officially the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, is an Act of Congress, passed on October 22, 2009

Wow, that's a big list, and about 98% of it is the cause of problems, not solution. I especially got a big laugh out of #8 considering the stone-walling that Justice is putting up not just to citizens but congress about the Black Panther's voter intimidation case. #67 is really rich too given that he hasn't held an unscripted, open press conference in many months. There might be a hand full of actual accomplishments there that helped, but really not a single thing focusing on our #1 concern, namely the economy and jobs. The so-called stimulus has been an abject failure and, for the most part, he's ignored the economic suffering in this country for almost two years. I don't know, maybe the first Seder in the White House will go down as his biggest accomplishment, but it's kind of hard to decide. Lol.

Outofajob - Puddleduck listed 91 - ninety-one - things that could be considered accomplishments and they were all done in 20 months.

All you can do is to pick on 2 of them and laugh that 'they are not REALLY accomplishments'. Did you or did you not ask what accomplishments did President Obama have (it is posted above)? Why ask the question of you are not going to at LEAST acknowledge that SOME things were done?

Puddleduck, it seems you are wasting your time - again. Outofajob doesn't seem to WANT to acknowledge that anythging was done. He just wants to sit and criticsize the President, even when you answered his question with 91 accomplishments.

Oh well.

Let's move on... there is nothing here...

Here, Here to PuddleDuck!

Well thought out, articulate, factual, based on logic and reason....

uh-oh, nope, no good. Republicans will want something a bit more substantive....trickle-down economics for example, or something about Momma Grizzles.... then you may turn a few of there heads...but actually showing them facts....i'm afraid you've wasted your time.

LOL

Are you kidding? I would LOVE to see Palin/Beck 2012. It would be like handing the president his re-election on a silver platter.

Lol, you lib twits just continue to tell each other things, patting each other on the back.

We could run Minnie Mouse and Mr Ed the talking horse and win.

You twits actually thought he was going to go against a majortiy of the electorate on almost every issue and get away with it, didn't you?

Obama is a meglomaniac and you folks are functionally, delusional

You twits actually thought he was going to go against a majortiy of the electorate on almost every issue and get away with it, didn't you?

Obama is a meglomaniac and you folks are functionally, delusional

Johnny - what are you talking about?

In case you have forgotten, 53% of the electorate cast their vote FOR this President. It seems to me that 53% of the electorate is the MAJORITY. It looks to me that you are making up your own facts.

So - care to explain where you get your numbers from?

Or is this a PERSONAL post where YOU PERSONALLY don't like the agenda?

The fact of the matter is that the majority of the electorate VOTED for this agenda and the President is carrying out EXACTLY what the 53% of the electorate voted for.

Care to try again with some REAL numbers this time?

Yeah but any that voted for Obama and haven't realized their mistake or refuse at least to admit it are fools.