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Subscribe to RSSA gathering of social conservatives selected Indiana Republican Mike Pence on Saturday as their top choice for the 2012 presidential ticket.
Pence, whose speech to the group Friday urged unabashed discussion of social issues as well as fiscal concerns in the run up to the 2010 and 2012 elections, won 24 percent of the vote in the presidential preference straw poll held at this year's Family Research Council's Values Voter Summit in Washington D.C.
"Those who would have us ignore the battle being fought over life, marriage and religious liberty have forgotten the lessons of history," Pence said in his address at the gathering Friday. "America's darkest moments have come when economic arguments trumped moral principles."
Pence received about 12 percent of the vote in last year's straw poll, coming in just behind former vice presidential nominee and Tea Party darling Sarah Palin.
Palin, who did not speak at the event this year, came in a distant fifth in this year's poll.
Former Arkansas Gov. Huckabee, who easily grabbed first place in the conference's 2009 poll, dropped to second place this year, receiving 22 percent of the vote.
Presumed presidential contender Mitt Romney, who narrowly won the top spot in the 2007 survey over Huckabee (although the result was disputed because of a wide divide in votes cast in-person and online), came in third, with 13 percent.
In his speech to the group on Friday, Romney concentrated on foreign policy and fiscal issues, doling out relatively few lines that catered to the attendees' strong opposition to gay marriage and abortion.
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who spoke to the group Saturday morning, came in fourth.
Not appearing on the straw poll ballot was Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, who asked to be removed from the list because he was unable to attend the conference. He is concluding a trade mission in China and Japan this weekend.
Organizers added the name of Gov. Mitch Daniels of Indiana to the ballot after Pawlenty's was removed. Daniels, though rarely mentioned by name, was a frequent target for criticism by the summit's speakers --- notably by Pence -- for his statement that conservatives should declare a "truce" over social issues and coalesce around Republican proposals to control spending and jumpstart the economy.
Others on the ballot included Sen. John Thune of South Dakota, Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina, Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey, and ex-Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania.
*** CORRECTION *** An earlier version of this post misidentified the state represented by Sen. John Thune. It is corrected above.
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He's got it so wrong. America's darkest moments come when those on the right falsely convince the low info voters that moral issues trump the needs of the country. Moral issues are used as a smoke screen to divert the attention of folks away from the ultimate plan: the transfer of wealth from the middle class to the rich/corporate class. Unfortunately, it works way too often. That is why the middle class is at its lowest point since the 1950's.
Indy Lib you are right on target. And then the Dems use race to divide the rest. The best thing we can have are non-professional politicians. The only platform plank i want to see is a national term limits- as a constitutional amendment. And: no pensions for supposed 'public servants.'
Indy,
You are about as wrong as 2 left shoes. If you have no morals, then what do you have? The middle class has been in an upward mobility position for many years. It may not be so for you personally but if you look at the middle class from a reality based position; you will see families with bigger homes, more expensive cars, etc.....
What do you base your statement of "The middle class is at its lowest since the 1950's? That sounds like a talking point that you have heard on t.v."
In case you haven't noticed, its the middle class that is being affected the most from 30 constant years of trickled-on economics, deregulation, and corporate welfare. Funny how corporations are still making huge profits at a time when the net worth of most in the middle class has gone down. Yet you folks cry "Socialism Socialism" at policies meant to straighten out this perverse transfer of wealth from the middle class to the rich. Tell your corporate buddies to get their hands off my wallet, then maybe we can work to fix the problems that are killing this country.
Obama is toast even if the Reps elect Gingrich. The Dems have had their chance and blew it. You will wake up on November 3rd to find Obama's hands tied. What is Obama? A left wing extremist vs a Right Wing extremist in a bad economy. This man has created a hostile business environment. If I were an investor, why would I want to create jobs? Why can't even liberals see this? Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried. Keynes economics doesnt work. The only people benefiting from this administration are organized labor leaders. When you spend $111 million like L.A. county did and have 55 jobs to show. That is terrible. Just like in 1992 "It's the economy stupid".
I don't remember mentioning Obama or the dems. Insulting the Yankees only works on Yankees fans. In this case, I'm a Red Sox fan. Stick to the issues.
Don't try to right off Pence because he has strong backing of social conservatives. You will find that he is no neophyte when it comes to fiscal responsibility. This is not a just say no Republican he has ideas of his own.
Go Twins! 9.5 up, magic number 6, could be 5 by day's end.
The term "Values Voters" always makes me laugh HYSTERICALLY!!!! "Values Voters" translates as "Rightwing, Crackpot Religious Zealots" who believe that THEY have right to tell OTHER PEOPLE what their moral beliefs should be.
Instead of voting for your religion, why not vote for what is best for your COUNTRY? They generally are NOT the same thing, ESPECIALLY when it comes to "Values" candidates. (Think about just how many times elected "Values" politicians have been caught (literally) with their pants down?
Hypocriscy and "Values" tend to go hand-in-hand.....
Doobie, I couldn't have said it any better. Love the name by the way.
Incredible, these folks continue to believe that pushing their morality on people who do not wish to live by their moral rules is ok and then they want to talk about how they are for more personal freedoms lol.
"America's darkest moments have come when economic arguments trumped moral principles."
You mean when WALL STREET basically controls Washington? You mean when wages are going backwards while CEO's are making a mint? Is that what you mean?
That's exactly what he means.
Hurricane-2380682
Obama is toast even if the Reps elect Gingrich. The Dems have had their chance and blew it.
I doubt it; because Gingrich is a demon seed and cannot interchange with America because he is obsessed with the ghosts in Kenya(the President's father & grand father). Gingrich put a bad curse on America when he wrote out a future entrenched plan for America in the 1990 (Contract with America). Believe me, the zoombie Tea Baggers will all return to the holes which Gingrich dug/is further digging on Nov 3rd, if the Tea Baggers or the GOPTP gains power.
If I were an investor, why would I want to create jobs?
I guess you wouldn't if you were an investor. It would be easier to greedily outsource jobs and use a dummy address to evade paying hundreds of millions of dollars in federal taxes.
this five-story office building is home to more than 18,000 corporate entities, nearly half of which have U.S. [United States] ties.
http://havenworks.com/world/cayman-islands/
Doobie;
So saith the man in the oval office
IndyLib - you are a typical lib. The wealthy rich/corporate class does not take from the middle class...they create wealth for the middle class through the creation of jobs and and by fueling the economy through their own spending.
As usual, the conversation is monopolized by the same few leftists that believe fixing America is by taking from those who have and redistributing it to those who don't, regardless of the consequenses.
So, once you have destroyed the wealthy and given all to the non-productive, who will you blame when there is nothing left to take and give? What incentive will there be to produce by the producers if they just have to give it all back?
Wrong bumpa, demand for goods and services from a strong middle class creates jobs. A weak middle class=a weak economy. Kinda like what we have now. We can no longer afford corporate welfare and those who leech off the hard work of the middle class while creating nothing.
Indy thinks the middle class creates demand for goods out of thin air. So tell me genius of economics, what comes first, the job and paycheck or the currency to buy the goods creating demand? I can think of another word starting with I that would go well with Indy Lib.
soldier1: how can you say the middle class is on the rise?? This defies all logic. Here is a capitalist magazine that just printed a story- on the destruction of the middle class. http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here%27s-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA
it is from Business Insider. But don't take their word for it- talk to any adult, or look at the pattern of salaries in the country. The middle class is greatly shrunk.
bumpa if you don't realize that laborers produce for the ownership class, and should be compensated appropriately, then you are either a slave or a tyrant. That 'wealth' by owners doesn't just appear. It comes by the sweat of the working class, not by the tipping of a gin and tonic in a boardroom. btw: save your breath: i too am a 'typical lib'- otherwise known as a us citizen w/out slavish tendencies.
Jack 3333. Guess that means NASA and the military are inefficient spenders. I'll buy that up to a point. Most military contracts go to the private sector manufacturers who often are very good at cost over-runs, cost plus and delays to get more funds. I know, I've worked for several government contractors. When the govt established a set price with no cost plus, and no more money for late efforts--amazing how efficient those contractors became. You can't always blame the Govt just because the Govt is spending the money.
The big transfer of wealth came about when the Clinton administration mandated banks give home loans to people that couldn't afford them. The bubble burst during the Bush years. The Democrats keep the poor in their place and are working to put the middle class there as well with their huge tax increases from the medical bill they passed and all the new spending put in place. Who will pay for all this? The middle class. The rich Democrats all have their money stashed away and the rich Democratic Congress has everything paid for them so why should they care. They are great at calling names, twisting the truth in the media, and brainwashing people and saying how they "care" about people when all they do is keep them poor.
MAW, I would argue that the corporate arisocracy in this country doesn't bother with dem/repub partisan politics. They are content as long as they get their way, which most on both sides of the aisle are more than happy to give them. The assault on the middle class is being obscured by the smokescreen of superficial social/moral issues that seek to divide and conquer based purely on emotional, not intellectual arguements. When Warren Buffet admits that his secretary pays a higher percentage of her income in taxes than he does, that illustrates the fact that the middle class is not only under heavy assault, but losing.
david1159
Don't try to right off Pence because he has strong backing of social conservatives. You will find that he is no neophyte when it comes to fiscal responsibility. This is not a just say no Republican he has ideas of his own.
David.
Fiscal responsibility is a republican slogan, like "things go better with Coke". It has absolutely no influence on their economic policy. Every time republican economic policies have been implemented they have caused a recession.
Liberals you will lose for years to come and the Conservative Right will impose their religous morals on you and your families. You will learn the right morals from wrong morals and repent for your sins and there is nothing you can do about it!!! From textbooks to universities BIG CHANGES are on the way and like the terrorist you are with us or against us either way we will impose our will on the eliteist prius driving vegetable eating peter puffing tree hugging idiots!!! Thanks for making it easy for us to do by the way!! May GOD almighty have mercy on you and yours!!!
The GOP thought thought they could use the tea partiers to secure wins. They didn't seem to consider that the partiers would also want to run for office themselves, usurping the establishment. They've created their own Frankenstein's monster. As more and more polls will be conducted towards 2012, we'll see leader after leader after leader take the top spot, leaving the right without any clear voice. President Obama will be assured a victory to the the division between the moderate repubs and hard leaning tea partiers.
Bailey---Nancy has a new program available.
You will recall, that, when you registered as a Democrat, you were required to surrender half of your reasoning ability.
Nancy, will now sell half of that back to you at a nominal price.
You appear to be a person that will benefit from the program, more than most.
No need to thank me, I feel obliged to help my challenged brethern, where I can.
Probably, it would behoove you to buy and wear a Tiara, change your name to Cleopatra, wear open toed sandals, you feet are firmly plated in de Nile.
LOL - Conservatives believe in magic money (give it to rich people , it won't effect the deficit and you will get it back in new jobs 10 fold) and you say Liberals give up half of their reasoning ability.
Republicans have put getting elected ahead of improving the country. Taxes were over 90% under Eisenhower (top bracket) but Obama is a communist that wants to re-distribute wealth. A lie.
Nixon wanted to start healthcare but Obama is a socialist for wanting to do it. Another lie.
Obama is a Christian but Repubs question his faith without cause. Blatant misrepresentations.
These value voters are looking for a shepherd to lead there flock and the Republicans are more than willing to fleece them.
Allwe want TONY is a governmnet that will get out of the wayand stop taking money out of the economy to feed the vampires.
Business in this country made this this country the envy of the world, for two hundred years., with no help from governmnet.
JFK came in long in 1960, it has been headed downhill since that time.
The inept liar in the white house now has us on a 45 degree angle into implosion.
It really is too bad that we can't let you libs have what you want, just kick back, buy gold no taxes till it's sold, leave it there till the inept liar in the white house is just an obscure historical footnote.
Then after all of the leehes starve to death and get their genes out of the pool we could use the gold to restart th economy, doing it the way we did it, when this country was the envy of the world.
.
The conservative 'values' seem to include war and torture, the removal of religious freedom, and a huge increase in the size of government. Dems want smaller government, lower taxes, and more personal freedoms. If you think otherwise, then stop watching faux republican entertainment. (They think sally palin and whatshername o'donnell are intellectual powerhouses)
jack3333 I like it. I think that is one start that all Americans can agree on: National Term limits. I would limit it to 6 years for the House and two terms for president. And no jumping from job to job. You actually serve, then you are done. The pensions and health care and 2 million a year office expenses are a joke....yes: social security only. keep up the good work, I have been espousing the same.
Tony:
It's not the government's money. No one is giving money to rich people. The money belongs to the people who earn it. The current tax code simply takes less of an individuals own money away. Have you ever been employed by a poor person? Come into reality, Tony.
have you ever seen a rich person become rich all by themselves? No, it takes many laborers in the supply chain. What is your definition of 'earn?'
Johnny Alford, For 200 years America was the envy of the world? If you had been in America without a union as a working person, or as a black man and a slave, or as a new immigrant who was beaten by the old establishment, you might not wish to make that statement. Or you really so ignorant of our history or are you maliciously making up lies?
The truth is our greatest moments as a country have been government directed. Any other times in our history where we allow capitalism to run rampant, we have had unhappiness, ruin, and national ignomy.
"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross."
-Sinclair Lewis
I'm tired of Republicans. They seem to think that Americans have forgotten how incompetent and divisive Republicans are in order to gain power.
Republicans rally against regulation of industry, and then America sees how that turns out when BP spills a million barrels of oil in our seas.
Republicans will rally against gay people, stripping them of civil rights, and then you find them tapping their toes in airport bathrooms looking for their gay lovers.
Republicans will rally against non-existent communists but have no problem driving an economy with Karl Marx like spending of tax dollars on endless wars against enemies that did not attack us.
Hands down, I'll be voting for the Democrats. Republicans have no credibility so my choice is clear.
The repubs seem to have no problem with corporate socialism. Privatized profits, socialized losses.
It is always wonderful to find a lib, who is clear about anything.
Indy Lib
The repubs seem to have no problem with corporate socialism. Privatized profits, socialized losses.
That is so true. Just look at all the farm subsidizes that "Armed and Dangerous" ding batsh!t crazy Michelle Bachmann got from the government.
Michele Bachmann's family farm in Independence, Wis., has, um, consented to accept over $250,000 in what by any definition would have to be called "socialized" federal subsidies. Writes Thrush, "Bachmann’s financial disclosure forms indicate her stake in the Wisconsin farm is worth up to $250,000. Her income from the farm has grown from $2,000 a year a few years back to as much as $50,000 for 2008.
Add Charles Grassley to the list of pols on the "socialist" meal ticket.
http://www.minnpost.com/dailyglean/2009/12/23/14541/bachmann_farm_gets_big_federal_payouts_but_not_much_msm_attention
Anyone in America who thinks Sarah Palin is worthy of being Vice Presidential material has to be brain dead or brainwashed.
She cannot even comprehend a simple sentence. I would never trust her on any international mission. A foreign head of state would blow her mind in a second. Sarah Palin has gone so far to say that she would not listen to her handlers and her common sense. Sarah Palin gave a "disastrous" interview with CBS News' Katie Couric before the vice presidential debate. She doesn't even know what newspapers she reads and has no geopolitical knowledge. Especially, if she thinks she can see Russia from her porch. She got lost in a blizzard of words with the Charlie Gibson interview. The same will happen with foreign heads of state. They will blow her mind in a nano second.
The Tea Party may appear to shaping up against the GOP; but if you really look at the values or lack there it has; I don't believe the majority of American people will allow this disaster to take place again. It happened with George Bush already.
As Sarah Palin told Charlie Gibson you can't blink. If American does blink at the Tea Party it will be devastation for America.
How can s Sarah Palin moralize to anyone without sounding like a dim –witted harpy about anti-government/stimulus while the US Treasury has Alaska $3,145 per capita and the national average is $1,170 since May of 2010?
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/08/18/business/20100818_Stimulus_graphic/20100818_Stimulus_graphic-popup-v2.jpg
Sarah Palin is a threat to freedom,(domestically&internationally) liberty, justice, and equality.
The regulations were in place-the Obama administration,which got, oh yeah,$800,000 from BP,ignored them.(I know, you are still under the misapprehension that your paper route money got him elected. One more nitwit)
Log Cabin REPUBLICANS brought suit against Don't Ask Don't Tell-and got a Federal Judge to declare it unconstitutional-despite the 'vigorous'(according to the AP) defense by the Obama Justice department.
Tell me again why yu have given up on Republicans. .
nojoe? Tell US why YOU have NOT given up on Republicans?? Tell us just what REBPICIANS have DONE lately to help the AVERAGE American? NOT the rich American the AVERAGE one? They have said "NO" to health care reform, NO to saving GM jobs, NO to helping small business owners, NO to "Don't ask Don't Tell" NO to blocking unlimited campaign funding, so tell us nojoe? NoJoe? what have Republicans done to help GAY Americans? What have Republicans done to HELP ALL AMERICANS, not just rich ones??????
The answer is.....NOTHING.........
Beverley in Chicago: i am a classic liberal, far more than most of you. Your diatribe against Sarah Palin however is ignorant and non-productive. How can a self-made woman who is known in Alaska for holding big oil's feet to the fire and accomplishing good legislation with democratic help, married to a minority union member, considered such a threat?? You really need to do research, instead of relying on SNL or big business media to do your thinking for you...
You have so many problems in Chitown; it is like Praetoria during apartheid--exactly. The most fascist city in the country, the only reason it works. And Dems there keep voting for criminals and snickering about it. Don't you think the rest of the country notices?? Where is your credibility to speak on any other state's gov?
jack-3333
I feel sorry for all the liberals here.....nov 2 is almost here.
#3.6 - Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:09 AM EDT
jack3333
On November 3rd you can stop feeling sorry for liberals and start feeling sorry for yourself and your republican friends.
"Well the truth is, Republicans didn't just lose a few elections, we lost our way. " - Mike Pence
Apparently, the way for Republicans to right their ship involves pulling out all the old emotional issues that fire up the evangelicals - sexuality in its various manifestations, who is allowed to marry whom, women's choice over their own bodies, and using embryos bound for the garbage dump for research that could save living, breathing people.
It is amazing that the party of small government declares as its values the very issues that would require enormous government intrusion to control.
Indy Lib, you are so right. Using morality to rouse the rabble is easy, and unfortunately, as Rush says, "works every time it's tried."
Our job as Democrats is to get out the vote if we hope to hold on to the House and Senate on November 2.
Ya got that right Gail, repubs are masters at manipulating peoples' hot button emotional issues. Since Bill Buckley passed, there's no one on the right who bothers with an intellectual arguement.
The problem is the Republican platform is a failure. They think they can just put new faces in front of the same old platform, and if they make that platform even more extreme it will seem like they are offering something different and new -- Like the more you say things or the louder you say it then it becomes the truth?
The Tea Party is not new. It was just the fringe. But the idea of being focused on fiscal conservatism has been peeled back to the religious fundamentalism of the right-wing. The only thing new is it's becoming the mainstream for the GOP. Been there, done that, don't want to do it again.
The Tea Party is just a place to focus anger. It doesn't matter what any of their "leaders" say, as long as they say it loud and in short skirts.
Its when you ignore them that's when you lose. The Tea Party are loose group of very angry voters. Very angry voters vote.
Republicans want to live in the 50's, before civil rights, before the sexual revolution and life was so nice and simple..........the tax rate for the top 1% was 91%(they forgot about that), corp taxes accounted for 55% of the tax load(that too) and under a Republican president we managed to build our interstate system, now the Republicans will only vote for tax cuts that "pay for themselves" and corp. welfare. They will spend money for defense but hardly a dime on our infrastructure
They rant that they want to "take back America",from whom? Americans?
They want power back and to return to the failed policies that almost put our Country into a depression.
All under the guise of "patriotism" !
Gail, TN
Yeah, don"t forget those thousands of illegals and dead people like last time.
Indy Lib – True Patriot – Gail – DW Brown
I hear your rant. I do not like the right wing religious BS either or hiding behind morals. The thing that one should be wary of is the genuine anger over excessive spending, uncertain or outright unfriendly tax policy and unnecessary new growth in entitlements the country cannot afford. So tell me please as an independent, should I vote for more welfare programs or less? Should I tolerate right wing religious BS or accept never ending new spending programs? Please help me understand the lesser of two evils because where I sit the spending is the biggest problem and the liberal spending agenda is more dangerous than the religious right wing.
To the Independent,
Consider this;
Republicans seem to have NO problem spending our money, our National debt was increased by 100% by the last Republican "conservative"(some5 1/2 trillion). When Reagan took office our debt stood at 900 billion, in 1988 it was nearly 4 trillion. Clinton was the only President who not only REDUCED the size of govt. he had a budget surplus when he left office! They just spend money with less R.O.I.
My advice is to vote for the candidates that sincerly want to work together to solve our problems, and YES....there are good people in both parties that want to do the right thing for our country! VOTE!
The Independent: I hear what you're saying. It's a conundrum. If I were you, I would base my decision on how to vote on this: Which group of people in Washington is most likely to try and bring about equity for the most people? Setting everything else aside, who is more likely to work for inclusion and a fair shake for the most people?
I will vote for the Democrats. I still believe in President Obama and the direction in which he is trying to lead us. It takes time - not months, years - to get where we are going, but I believe we are moving in the right direction.
Pray about your decision, if you are a praying person, and be at peace.
Twisted - How many dead people or illegal aliens do you know who actually voted? Show us the proof.
Exactly right- republicans use 'moral' issues to divide and conquer- exactly like in Indiana, one of the poorest, fattest, church going states in the union. They have a slave mentality that basically provides soldiers and factory workers. Do we want that mentality for the rest of America? If you like Mike Pence, you like $5/hr pay...
Conservatives use so-called "values" as wedge issues to be sure. But after Vitter, Ensign, Sanford, etc. I can't believe they think they can return to this -- Even Gingrich and his closet full of skeletons is trying to return!
From the article: "Those who would have us ignore the battle being fought over life, marriage and religious liberty have forgotten the lessons of history," Pence said in his address at the gathering Friday. "
Just the opposite – Pence should hope people have forgotten the Terri Schiavo intervention.
With addition of Christine O'Donnell to the 2010 roster of U.S. Senate candidates, there are now five GOP-tea party candidates who oppose abortion, even in the cases of rape and incest. The others are Sharron Angle of Nevada, Ken Buck of Colorado, Joe Miller of Alaska and Rand Paul of Kentucky.
ALARM -- These are candidates for the Senate! Now we’re talking about the White House. If people thought the Terri Schiavo intervention was going too far, these pro-life extremists make that look like nothing. Young girls who are raped repeatedly by a family member have a high rate of pregnancy. Sharron Angle thinks they should make lemonade from lemons. Compassionate Conservatism at its best. Gagh!
Notice how little the Right talks about unemployment. They damn well better not. After all they created the basis for it. Now they continue to ship our jobs abroad. Now they want to abrogate the 15th and 17th Amendment. Don't forget that the tea suckers at their convention in Memphis this February called for a reinstatement of Jim Crow laws. These are Americans? These are the same people that voted against Obama. They see in this a chance to get even. I met these jerks at Republican rallies prior to the election on 2008. The infamous "N" word was used like water running over a dam. Don't tell me these clowns aren't racists. These people would cheer for Adolf Hitler. Wake up America, they claim to take back America. Yes, back to the 1850s. Show them a calendar, this is 2010.
Yes,just ponder this before you vote for a rep to provide jobs??
Mitch McConnell criticized Obama for talking up a "a partisan campaign bill" for the second time in four weeks at a time when Americans are desperate for Washington to focus on creating jobs and growing the economy.
Carly Fiorina laid off 30,000 workers while she was CEO of computer giant Hewlett-Packard.
------------------
Republican candidate
"When you're talking about massive layoffs, which we did, perhaps the work needs to be done somewhere else," Fiorina says in the ad. The announcer adds, "Fiorina shipped jobs to China, and while Californians lost their jobs, Fiorina tripled her salary, bought a million dollar yacht and five corporate jets."
In Ohio, where joblessness was most recently calculated at 10.3 percent, Democratic Gov. Ted Strickland is wielding a similar club against Republican challenger John Kasich. An ad that started running statewide in late August shows Nilda Ramos of Lorain, Ohio, saying her husband was laid off in 2006 from a job he had held for 22 years at Invacare, a manufacturer of wheelchairs and other medical equipment.
"John Kasich sat on Invacare's board as a director and signed off on jobs being outsourced and sent to China and Mexico," she says. "I believe they sent those jobs overseas so they could make more profit."
The sad part is that a large number of Americans buy into this crap. The same people who feel that their freedoms are being taken away (and they do feel this way) think nothing of taking freedoms away from others. And they dont see the conflict at all.
They need to read Al Gore's book on the Rule of Reason.
Not likely though, because they are too busy reading childish name-calling garbage like O'Reilly's "Pinheads and Patriots" and Glenn Beck's book "How to Talk to Idiots" like he should know. These people would need to grow up first.
I think you might be a bit jealous seeing that Beck and O'Reilly books will out sell anything by Al Gore by a 100 to 1 margin. Must be because Liberals don't read much. They are way too busy telling the rest of us (on the right) how stupid,racist, bigoted, fat, zombie-like, homophobic, (have I missed any adjectives here?) we are.
Old guy:
Why is it a sad thing? I could say the same about you buying into the liberal BS that is spewed. It is all a matter of opinion.
Man I know you didn't say a book by Al Gore...LOL...That is the funniest thing posted this week. Go back to sleep.
And thanks to the Obama administration, the rights of the right, left and middle have been secured, assured and increased but yet the tea partiers scream "take back my country" and bring weapons to public events to hopefully, just intimidate only, not actually use. Isn't your country the same one as mine?
Since your screen name comes directly from a character on "WKRP in Cincinnati", it is all too easy to credit your totally ridiculously inaccurate comment to the writers for your character. Unfortunately, I believe it came from your own delusional understanding of the present environment in this country. With forced health care and the president's past commentary on subject's such as DADT, his ineffectual handling of the economic crisis and the administration's inability to deal in a forthright and truthful manner with the BP disaster in the Gulf, I am not sure how you can say the rights of the right,left and middle have been secured by the current administration. If anything, he and his cronies are just more of the same in different suits. Politicians in general are a pack of liars, regardless of which party they are a member of. They are all in it for personal gain. Why else would anyone spend millions of dollars to be elected to an office which pays so little in the way of salary....benefits and perks, plain and simple.
BAILEY------ So how many people got shot, by the weapons the tea partiers brought with them?
If you are one of those people who think we should have police officer standing at every door, in America, Gee, Bailey, we just can't afford it.
Understand, we have no intention of buying your insurance ,financing your home, or patyng for your health car.
You can pay for ir, or do without, take your pick.
If you are so worthless, that you can't even provide for yourself, what attributes do you have that make you worth paying for anything, for you.
Certainly, if you can't even take care of yourself, you are of no value to the country.
Johnny:
Do you ever proofread this stuff before you hit "Post Comment?"
Comma error.
"patyng"? Huh? "health car?" Mine's a Honda...doesn't do much for health though.
"for ir?" Right.
I give up. I have no idea how to fix this one.
I realize that writing posts here is not like writing a Ph.D thesis, but come on. At least make your stuff readable. Your poor writing tends to make readers think less of both you and your statements.
BIWEELER---- Please don't give up, you too can be somebody, you don't have to be a lib and spend hours daily, on your knees, begging some to buy you something.
Find work, be productive, earn, in only a couple of years you can become a useful, productive member of society.
You will be amazed at the difference in your life, as you learn, that, you can be responsible for your own life.
Your assumption, is that the opinion of the supporters of the Democratic Parasitical Party, are important, to me. Allow me to think about that for a couple of weeks, I'm sure there must be something less important to me.
You engange in the mistake of Mr Obama, you seem to think that tou are qualified to "fix " something, you will find as you learn more, that is not, necessarily, so.
bilweeler-get a life.
Mongoose -- a bicycle or a mammal takes issue with my using the name of a fictional TV character? Would you rather I use Phyllis Schlafly? People who will strip us of our constitutional rights in the name of their moral code are trying to gain political office, thousands of people are unemployed, armed forces are still in Afghaniastan and Iraq and you want to pick a squabble over my screen name?
No joe:
Got one. It's pretty good too. Thanks for the tip though.
Johnny:
Go back a reread my post. Never mentioned liberal/conservative, Obama, Democratic Party, and so on. Guess your reading skills are as good as your writing skills.
I have VALUES... but most of these people believe values must equal Christianity (and their brand)
It always scares me that people only have values because they are scared to go to hell ... i don't believe in an afterlife and i will never have kids, but the future is still important to me... i care about what will be here long after i am gone... simply because it is the right thing to do, God or not
Ever notice how many Religious people say the phrase "Why would you be good if there is no God?"
THAT SCARES ME
it scares me too! if you look closely, there is very little difference between the Taliban and the Christian Right as far as morality and social issues. conspiracy? We keep attacking islamic countries that are actually nationalist (Baath) not religeous (shiite/Iran). This leaves the Islamic right in power in the middle east, NOT any democratic movements.
Do you ever listen to that voice in your head that says,"I'm about to show the world what a complete idiot I am"?
That was one of those times. You should have listened.
I think the Republicans would be wise to listen to Mitch Daniels. The Republicans should leave the social issue platform to the Democrats and stick to the message of righting our fiscal ship by curbing spending. Repeal the fiasco that the Dems call health care "reform". Rework revenue intake so all Americans contribute. Make people be responsible instead of continuing to promote the victim mentality. Lower the corporate tax and give incentives to business to come back ashore and bust some unions. They have outlived their usefulness. Contrary to what the Dems preach unions are a major factor in driving jobs out of country.
passin - Contrary to what the Dems preach unions are a major factor in driving jobs out of country.
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No, tax incentives are the major reason for driving jobs out of the country. 30 years of corporate socialism is taking its toll.
Cheap labor and cheap cargo shipping are what allow multinational corporations to kill labor unions. We don't need to allow global transit of finished goods made with slave labor to take place. And we certainly don't need to provide security on the high seas to everybody else in the world for essentially free of charge.
Really?
They leave because unions force the price of everything they produce up. Want to guess why GM is going to build new billion dollar plants in China? Couple of reasons. 1) they sell more vehicles in the far east and 2)they can reduce the cost of their vehicles by thousands of dollars if they're not built in the U.S. This after taking nearly 60 billion of the taxpayers money. By 2020 there will be very little GM employees in the U.S. So they will bust the union by themselves and will offer a buyout on future pensions.
That's just one example. Others will follow their lead to the further detriment of America.
Unions equate with inefficiency and over compensated from a business standpoint. In a global market with "free trade" agreements they will be a major consideration for businesses when judging the bottom line. Profit is king.
Hence you have made my point. Well played. We don't have to agree to the agreements that make the global free trade market happen. You are thinking inside the box, and only inside the box that was built for you.
Paul, I smell Union Shill...the fact remains that unions have continued to drive the cost of labor up in this country for most all manufacturing and transportation industry jobs by their ridiculous salary and benefits demands. If, the cost of labor and transportation had been kept realistic many of the jobs that have been sent offshore would have remained in this country. Lower costs in these key areas is the largest incentive to remove the jobs in the first place but the reason behind the lower cost is not what you term slave labor abroad.Typical of a union man to apply U.S. standards of living to foreign countries. In many cases the individuals working at those jobs sent overseas are making many times over the normal pay scale for their country, thereby improving their own standard of living. It is also true that many of those individuals were perfectly happy with their way of life prior to U.S. corporations arrival on the scene.
Before you say someone has proved your point try to make one that is well thought out and has some actual basis in the reality of the situation. You just parroted the "Union Mantra" of "It isn't the high wage demands/benefit demands,it's cheap price of labor overseas that is the real cause of job loss!".
If anyone is thinking inside the box they were put into,it is you!
So passin, even though your ignorance defies boundaries, I'll counter your China example. Microsoft has offices and production in France- and provides its French workers with the salaries and benefits they are accustomed- including 35 hour work weeks and 8 weeks of vacation each year. Guess who literally fought in the streets for that? French unions over the last two hundred years.
So, under your theory why is microsoft there? The labor costs are far higher than in America. Microsoft is there because it is a great place, and US workers no longer set the benchmark for productivity. Nor do we provide the free education that produces engineers among others.
Leave the modern economics to the adults; you are just replaying Glenn Beck simple-minded mantras for simple-minded people.
Amusing to think that some of you just don't get it. This didn't start with Bush and it won't end with Obama.
This started 40 years ago and is just now coming to a head, the only person a politician cares about is themselves.
Lets see Rangel doesn't pay his taxes and he is (was) in charge of writing tax laws. Not good
Boxer gave away scholarships to her grandkids - called fraud
Both claim they didnt know or read the governeing laws or expected someone else to do it.
Now the same can be said of the Republicans side with similiar issues.
The point is that these same people have been in office damn near that long, hence its time to get them all out of office before this country breaks at the seams.
Vote them all out both sides.
Yes, time for a whole new batch of psychotic criminals. Study up on your George Carlin.
Jerry, this moment in time is to the conservatives what the '60's was to liberals.
Values apparently does not mean ethics let alone morals. It's okay to cheat on your spouse (even illegally with prostitutes, even male prostitutes) and have multiple divorces, pay hush money, lie, and do anything except masturbate. Well maybe that's okay too--IF you say you're sorry--it's all okay with repentance you know--and IF you are Republican.
Values for the right-wing does not mean caring about the poor or elderly, the sick, the planet, etc.
It certainly has nothing to do with enlightenment. They are anti-intellectualism/science to protect backward, literal beliefs in the Bible, so evolution and climate change are evil liberal hoaxes.
Have you noticed they don't ever define or explain anything, including solutions or details for those solutions? Willful ignorance -- haunting. And it's true that the End Times beliefs are very much behind the crusade mentality toward Arab culture. Foreign policy based on religious heresy -- great.
perfect, true patriot. that is what the current assault on liberty by the right wing is: an assault on the enlightenment. Guys like passin would make perfect Taliban, and bring us into a midevel christian ethos that kills people for disbelief in the invisible, or tortures them for not being a passive slave. Nothing in the history of free manking says that labor has to sit and take the wages proferred; it is right now only that artifical boundaries keep American workers in one market while others from abroad (India, Pakistan, England, China, Korea, Japan, not to mention 30 million illegals) come here and drive down wages.
A good Christian will help their fellow man. Not sit idly by in judgement. At least, that's what I think.
That's how its supposed to work. Helping takes actual compassion and effort, 2 qualities most folks who call themselves Christian lack. But there are still many good ones out there; they just aren't as loud.
Boy, is that true. As soon as someone tells me that he/she is a good Christian, know they're a liar. For me, a good Christian never has to point it out.
I was amazed that Huckabee made a comparism between a person with a previous physical problem shouldn't get insurance, and someone who's house burned down, or a person with a car that had been in an accident.
I am a Veteran who has Service Connected Injury, and have been denied Health Insurance! Because of the injury I received while serving this Country. V-A is great, but they don't cover any problem except the injury!!! Too young for Medi-care, oh yea he wants to eliminate that also. Huckabee's answer is to compare people like me to a burnt down house or wrecked car? I sure won't want him making any decision for My Country. He has no respect for people. And here he is an "Ordained" Minister!!! And he calls that "The Christian Way"!!!
I hope things get better for you. L ike Mike Huckabee. He seems like an okay person but I would never vote for him.
Huckabee was Governor of Arkansas as you all know, and is known in the state as the Huckster---even by the right wing, state newspaper, The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. And, yes, he is an ordained Southern Baptist minister. He's another perfect candidate from the tyrannical right wing. How do you think he was able to secure a postion on FOX?
Roger, if there is anything worse than a liar, YOU ARE THAT THING.
If you actually had a 'service related injury' YOU WOULD BE COVERED BY THE VA.
As someone with a birth defect that caused a serious,life threatening illness that has cost my insurance company millions, I can tell you, I have never been turned down, nor had treatment not covered, because I do not lie on my applications.
You may believe that all is fair in love and war, but this is politics. Your lies are disgusting-and an infamy to all truly injured veterans. SHAME ON YOU.
Pence states we should learn from the "Lessons of History" ...
Well him and the Repubs do need to learn from those "lessons of history" and quit preaching hate, intolerance, injustice and the list goes on & on. There is no room in America for right wing extremists like these. They dont preach family values, they preach hate & intolerance towards humanity and the world!
You mean like Obama 'vigorously' defending Don't Ask, Don't tell? Or filing a brief in support of the Defense of Marriage Act? That kind of hate and intolerance?
You can ignore it-the media certainly does-but Obama is a social conservative. I don't like them-but when you get a social conservative who is also a fiscal profligate?
that is a disaster. That is what we are living. Is there any wonder that he is so unpopular?
The moment a country starts exporting its' manufacturing jobs, it's economy, in the long term, is doomed. Not everyone wants to sit at a desk or be an IT guy. Not everyone wants to go to college or maybe can't afford college. Some people, educated or not, want to make things, build things. A country has to be the majority maker of its' goods. the money that's made here will be spent here. But we're cutting off our nose to spite our own face. We send the jobs overseas to get cheaper labor, lower costs of goods and increase the profit margin. We've grown accustomed to the $10.00 foreign made item that would cost $24.00 if made over here. It would probably be better quality and last twice as long but we're not thinking on that. My husband's employer has numerous parts made in China that go through quality control when they get stateside. Wait, I should say, if they get stateside. Their Chinese partner has been known to ship their products to Turkey in error. Nearly 70% of what the grade is unusable and has to go back. It may be cheaper, but it isn't better and when the final cost is tallied, it cost more due to poor workmanship.
the minute that the wages of a country cause the price of a good to be two and a half times what the public will pay, their manufacturing is in danger of being exported to a place where the price of the goods will be more in line with what the public will bear.
Get it?
Once production of goods is sent overseas for cheaper costs, the cost of the product itself can also go down, especially since the quality will be less than stellar. So after years of getting things cheaply, we've created our own problems. We want manufacturing and productions jobs and still have cheap goods. But we can't get those jobs back and still have the $10.00 T-shirts. They're being sewn in Honduras for .50 a pop. If we had never sent the jobs elsewhere to begin with, we wouldn't have had a problem with the cost of merchandise. It's the Wal-Mart effect. Get that?
Buy New Balance sneakers. About 80 % American made.
Bailey – Another genius in economics. You could not be more wrong. Sort of discredits your other posts.
It is NOT a purely economic issue. The global "economy" is predicated on POLICY agreements between nations. Exploiting "slave labor" around the globe, in order to undermine the middle class in developed westernized countries is the Global policy which permits your "FREE Market" Global Firesale.
It's comical to see you all arguing over which set of conniving politicians is better. Our political system is broken. Term limits and non-career politicians won't help. We have to suck the oxygen out by moving large areas of responsibility out of the government and into professional organizations. We did this long ago with the Fed and although its record is far from perfect, it's a hell of a lot better than having a committee of politicians decide what monetary policy should be.
Professional organizations, say, like Halliburton?
No, Halliburton is a corporation. The Fed is an apolitical government entity. You don't sound intelligent enough to understand the distinction. Go back to the Tea Party or PETA. I'm sure you belong to one set of idiots or the other.
Tea Party? Clearly, your thinking is a loop made of fruit.
What are you bitter and broken lemmings going to do with yourselves when the gop regains control and halts the reckless entitlement program spending? I picture the scene in scanners when the guys head explodes.
I live in a very affleunt suburb with the average home price around $400k but there are dozens over $600k and still much higher than that. Many of these homes are foreclosures or short sales. I can assure you quite a few of them had McCain/Palin signs in their yards two years ago.
Sen. John Thune from North Dakota? That would be news to most North Dakotans, including its two U.S. Senators, Kent Conrad and Byron Dorgan.
I would bet most people do not know how conservative Indiana is. It's as far to the right and maybe even more so than many southern states and has been for many, many, years. I can remember as far back as 1965 when Indianapolis radio news programs were seriously predicting a KKK governor would be elected within two years. The key word here is "seriously." Remember, 1965 was only eleven years after Brown vs Topeka Board of Education.
Indiana is a very, very, conservative state, and Pence is one of the best representatives of that state's political climate. So, listen to what he says. I think the man is damn near as dangerous and unethical as Hitler. I can't stand him and would trust him with a nickel which means he's a perfect representative of the Republic's tyrannical right wing. They'll flock to him like fleas on an old hound dog.
TJefferson-1649275
I would bet most people do not know how conservative Indiana is. It's as far to the right and maybe even more so than many southern states and has been for many, many, years. I can remember as far back as 1965 when Indianapolis radio news programs were seriously predicting a KKK governor would be elected within two years. The key word here is "seriously." Remember, 1965 was only eleven years after Brown vs Topeka Board of Education.
I can also remember the controversy about the KKK threatening the Obama campaign offices in the state of Indiana during the 2008 presidential campaign.
Mike Pence takes stimulus hypocrisy to a new level - Wed Aug 11, 2010
http://www.blueindiana.net/diary/4841/mike-pence-takes-stimulus-hypocrisy-to-a-new-level-
Back in February, Representative Mike Pence issued a statement:
One year later, one thing is clear: the stimulus bill has failed. One year later, not one net job has been created as unemployment rose from 7.6 percent to nearly 10 percent nationwide. Mr. President, millions of Americans are asking, "where are the jobs?"
But this weekend, Mike Pence was advertising those same jobs he claimed didn't exist, and celebrating them on his official House website with photos and a statement:"With 70 businesses and 1,200 citizens in attendance, this year's job fair was an outstanding success," Pence said.
You see, those employers were hiring Hoosiers with the money from the American Recovery & Reinvestment Act that Mike Pence loves to demonize. At least 16 of the 65 companies at the job fair received funding from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, including Ball State University -- the location of the job fair -- and at least three more benefited indirectly from the stimulus. The impact the stimulus had on those employers was varied. Brevini Wind USA, Inc. of Yorktown, Indiana benefited greatly, receiving $12.75 million to open a new manufacturing facitlity that will produce parts for wind turbine manufacturers.
In fact, during the job fair, Mike Pence - who claims to "love teachers" - was railing against a bill that would save the jobs of 3,600 Hoosier teachers.
(And just because Mike Pence can't only be wrong about one thing at a time, an analysis of the economic impact of ARRA showed that most of the jobs it saved were, in fact, teachers.)
While Mike Pence might want to take credit for the benefits of a plan he opposed, national Democrats weren't willing to let this one go without a fight.
But Democrats say Pence's job fair is yet another example of Republicans taking credit for jobs created by the stimulus while at the same time criticizing the program. Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee called the House Republican leadership "blatant hypocrites."
"If such blatant hypocrites like Mike Pence, Eric Cantor, and John Boehner had their way, the jobs in their districts that they've been trying to take credit for wouldn't even be there," DCCC spokesperson Ryan Rudominer said.
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Mike Pence. Liar. Phony. But possibly the best they have. Romney, Palin, Gingrich, Pawlenty. Well, maybe Pence isn't the best. Just the best of some very bad people, who don't give a hoot about honesty, integrity, the American people. They just want power. So they investigate and lie and name call in order to take the heat off themselves and the lousy job they do governing. The Democrats didn't create this mess. The Republicans did. It's what they do best. Making a mess. And a lot of noise. But not actually saying or doing anything.
"Democrats legislate; Republicans investigate." President Lyndon B. Johnson
Let's try to think out of the box for a bit. You folks seem to be subscribing to a dying political paradigm: Dems v. Repubs, Left v. Right, etc. Please consider the following---
We are in a massive paradigm shift, and have been for quite awhile. The new political paradigm is: Globalists (meaning transnational mega corporatists and their cronies in govt & banking) v. We the People; or it might be called Globalism v. Sovereignty; or, the Corporatocracy v. the rest of us. It's not a conspiracy, rather, it's right out in the open for all to see. As David Rockefeller said publicly in 1991, "Surely it is preferable to have the world run by unelected, business elites instead of the nations of the past with their corrupt politicians."
The upper crust of both of the major political parties subscribe to that belief. Their rallying cry is "Globalization", and it's well under way. Via the IMF, the World Bank, and the WTO, Globalists are privatizing govt services in both the developed and developing parts of the world. Loans to poor countries, trade agreements such as NAFTA, and the policies/rules of the WTO are all working in favor of the supranational corporatists and their establishment of a worldwide, mega economic/financial structure that has a global fascist framework. [Fascism, according to Mussolini, is the marriage of mega corporations and the State...in this case, a world State.]
I stress again: this is not a conspiracy. It's like-minded people & organizations with mutual interests and a common goal working sometimes independently, sometimes cooperatively, to attain their objectives. Plus, it's right out in the open...discussed in esoteric journals such as "Foreign Affairs" and at websites such as cfr.org and trilateral.org...and people such as Rockefeller and the late Professor Carroll Quigley (Bill Clinton's mentor at Georgetown U.) have written and spoken publicly about it. So, too, has Professor Noam Chomsky, the well-known libertarian socialist (which means, anarcho-syndicalist).
Meanwhile, American voters, having been successfully divided and in the process of being "conquered", argue about whether or not the Ten Commandments should be displayed in public buildings. Have mercy.
http://individualsovereignty.blogspot.com/ for the details.
Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.
One of my favorite Chomsky quotes.
Outstanding. Well done.
Scott,
Good post, I believe we are living in the time of the great American Empire, although many refuse to admit it. The rich have inherited the earth and corporate rule is a reality.
Very astute observation.
DW---
Thanks...and you are absolutely correct about the Empire. It's only going to get worse, unless Americans start taking notice. Even then, I don't know...
As Professor Carroll Quigley said in his book, "Tragedy and Hope"..."The tragedy is that we no longer have a representative government in this country, or any country; the hope is that the little people will accept that...because there is nothing they can do about it." He wrote that in the mid-'60s. He said "little people" because he considered himself one of the elites, and he agreed with the idea of eliminating nations.
http://individualsovereignty.blogspot.com/
I think the current administration would rather run against Palin than Pence... polls such as these give hope that there are still grownups in the GOP. I may not like the major stance of the GOP, but there are at least some who I could live with as my President, Pence Pawlenty, Romney and possibly Huckabee. We can only hope for continued sanity... I would be happy all the same if Palin continued to simply be a pseudo-author and "news" commentator, but to allow her to make the important decisions for our country? Obviously her own party does not think so and she would be wise to take heed of what these straw polls tell her.
You people wont be happy until you keep backing yourselves into such a corner that the rest of the country has no choice but to have deal with Obama and the Democrats that will continue to rule our country because of your zealotness about social issues.
You serve your corporate masters well. You will be rewarded. Extra gruel for you.
It's 'zealotry' you nitwit-and Mike Pence is not the person who vigorously defended DADT-
that was Obama.
Any more gems of wisdom?
By religious liberty, does this nut job mean the liberty to cram his religious views down everyone else's throat and insist they accept them? I'm not aware of any weddings being threatened in my community, lives are not being snuffed out (insert argument of when viable life begins here), an no one is being denied the right to assemble for purposes of worship or religious study. I believe the Constitution of the United States extends to ME the liberty to establish my own values and does not require they meet some pre-conceived fundamentalist criteria, the right to cohabit with whom I choose ~ with or without benefit of some ceremony. Lest you wonder, I am heterosexual, monogamous (fifty years now), Christian, and a member of the United Methodist Church. Frankly, I am not threatened by your values. I fail to understand why you are so terrified of mine ~ and would use the political process to instill moral conduct.
values, my arse, anyone in the Republican party that calls themselves family values, or moral majority, is probably a sociopath.
Every program of the Democratic Parasitical Party is predicated on stealing money from the people who have earned it and using it for their own ends or handing it to a parasite..
You sir, have no place to stand when you speak of sociopaths.
I'm in the middle class and according to you conservatypes, I don't pay federal income tax. If that's the case, I want my $8000.00 back from last year.
Funny to see Rick Santorum on anyones list. This guy was a Bush clone when he served. Not one unique idea in his head.