Bradbury's nightmare; we're electing people based upon how they look and sound over the substance of their character.

We may as well fireproof our homes and start torching the libraries.

Ron, good comments and timely considering the FT topics above. Are Christine O'Donnell and Sharon Angle REALLY that crazy when you compare them to Gary Bauer, or Newt Gingrich? The Conservative Movement has gone RUNNING to their particular brand of crazy because they've gone so far awry that to them it looks sane. Such is life in Wonderland.

Ron, my take is that Rep. Castle did NOT pass the 'conservative' purity test. He was simpley not conservative enough, so the electorate in Delaware, in their wisdom, have foisted upon us a 'true' conservative candidate.

The mere fact that O'Donnell is a little 'different' is up for debate; however, she seems to meet the new 'Conservative' credentials.

It is going to be quite interesting to watch how things work out in the next few weeks.

Hold it folks!!!!! Before this gets out of hand, understand that O'Donnell does not have a clue about witchcraft. If someone started talking about goat sacrifices in Lutheran Churches, there would be a terrible uproar. That's because Lutherans and other Protestants, as well as their parent, Catholics, do not do this. Granted, there's that cannibalism thing, but that's a topic for another day.

O'Donnell - along with her like-minded-brethren and sistren - Plain, Gingrich, and Huckabee to name a few - are into the green movement. Gimme the green. Gimme money, money, money.

Wiccans find their spirituality in the elements; earth, air, fire, water. They do not engage in blood sacrifice, they do not pay for salvation, and they most certainly don't believe in the invisible sky guy. Wiccans, unlike O'Donnell, actually respect the earth and their fellow man.

"So I have to ask the Tea Party leaders, what are you doing supporting candidates with such poor judgment? " Funny, the reason we are supporting Tea Party cause we kept asking the Dems the same thing, "Why are you supporting office holders with such poor judgement?"

First we don't count Bill Haher as a news source apparently you do, so we seem to have a difference of opinon on what is considered a source.

, John McCain did not vet Sarah Palin before appointing her to be his V-P candidate. Yes he did, and she was actually the most experienced person on the ballot for President. And has a huge national following.

A Witch! I love it. She fits right in. LOL

Frankusa

Megan McCain from her new memoir “Dirty Sexy Politics”:

On Sarah Palin: "I was waiting for her to explode. There was a fine line between genius and insanity, they say, and choosing her as the running mate was starting to seem like the definition of that line."

Frankusa just ignores things he can't dispute. It's the Conservative way with facts.

John McCain did not vet Sarah Palin before appointing her to be his V-P candidate. Yes he did, and she was actually the most experienced person on the ballot for President. And has a huge national following

hahahaha what

Roy Holt: Thank you for your comments. I just stated the facts based on an MSN report that Christine self-reported.

You stated opinion. No, I am not angry. My words were well measured. Perhaps you are projecting your own anger.

A Witch! I love it. She fits right in. LOL

Actually Tom, as a wiccan myself, I can tell you that most witches fit moreso with the democratic party than they do with the GOP. We live by the motto of "do what you want, but harm none as what you do comes back to you threefold" as opposed to "do what we think Christ tells us to do." So, I respectfully disagree with you there, she does not fit in with the GOP.

BTW, so Tom, as a democrat, are you putting wiccans into some sort of "less than" derogatory category as opposed to everybody else? It certianly sounds that way, not very nice coming from the "party of inclusion." I guess we don't count as a large enough "voting base" to be taken seriously.

ToxicChemist is correct, Tom.

In "Game Change" McCain's campaign spent less than one week vetting her. Palin had been on the long list but was not considered qualified. He picked her knowing almost nothing about her or her family. Think about it, most VP nominees spend months completing lengthy questionnaires and campaigns send people to investigate. Those asked to do this in one week qualified their reports by saying there was insufficient time to adequately check into her background.

Mr. Walker

As a catholic, I don't appreciate your humor of suggestive cannabilism. Or the crack about the 'invisible sky guy'.

I really don't care if O'Donnell practiced 'Wiccan' rituals whatever they may be whether it be a believe in Gaia or whatever other name they call 'Mother earth'. It sounded what she practiced and admitted to was not Wiccan, there is a difference between that and Satanism.

Also Christians don't pay for salvation. They accept it, bub.

Thanks Jody: It is amazing what you learn when you read. You are well read and it shows.

I have no problem with ideological differences between liberals and conservatives. Each is entitled to his or her viewpoint and the point of our politics is that we resolve our differences at the ballot box. The fact that so many apparently unqualified candidates are getting on the ballot and in a position to be elected is troubling to me. It shows the power of a motivated minority of voters and should be yet another reason for every one to get out and vote in every election--they all matter.

P.S. Ron--nice bounce back by your Colts last night. Maybe our teams will meet in the playoffs!

Steeler Fan: That possibility definitely exists.

Oh no. I've been chastised by the Witches. Oh please don't cast a spell on me. Get a life guys.

Yellowdog:

Cannibalism: http://www.catholicapologetics.org/ap060500.htm

Invisible sky guy: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=26290

See also: Invisible Pink Unicorn and Flying Spaghetti Monster

Paying for salvation: http://www.kyria.com/topics/marriagefamily/marriage/spirituality/interestingapproachestithing.html

Believe as you will, yellowdog. You, like I, have a First Amendment protection that guarantees your right to practice your faith free of government interference. Indeed, I took an oath to protect that right. I have done so, and shall continue to do so, but spare me your umbrage and righteous indignation.

ToxicChemist

Actually Tom, as a wiccan myself, I can tell you that most witches fit moreso with the democratic party than they do with the GOP.

The way O'Donnell told of her adventures, the people she was hanging out with were not wiccans, they were Satanists. Satan has nothing to do with Wicca, despite the accusations by hysterical Puritans that it did. At least she said they had a "Satanic alter." I won't go so far as to say that Satanists fit better in the Republican Party, although you gotta wonder about Newt Gingrich.

As for O'Donnell, I doubt that the people she was involved with were really even Satanists. It sounds more like a case of teenagers or college kids acting goofy. I wouldn't consider that as grounds for not voting for a candidate. The problem with O'Donnell is that she is STILL goofy. And dangerously so.

I did hear this weekend that many of the TEA Partiers are not as concerned with social issues and are more focused on fiscal issues. The problem with that, as I see it, is that most of them do not understand economics and are blaming the wrong people for the fiscal problems.

Steeler Fan,

What qualifications are you referring to? There is no where in the Constitution that states a person has to be a Rhodes Scholar to become a Senator. If you have the money to run and the signatures, then have at it.

Obama didn't have any executive experience and he got elected. The experience line is really weak when it comes to running for office.

ITM: You are right, the Constitution simply states age and citizenship as requirements. And I would agree that being a Rhodes Scholar should not be a criteria. But don't you think candidates should have qualities like good judgement, a sense of right and wrong, an appreciation of history, evidence of rational thinking to be a senator or V-P. Or would you prefer your elected officials to be a little dim-witted and unknowledgeable?

There is nothing in the Constitution that denotes what, if any, education a candidate needs. That is correct.

But isn't a no-brainer that the leader of the free world be the smartest guy in the room? That's what I want in a President. When my leader has to make treaties, etc. with the leaders of other countries, I want to make sure he/she has the brains to understand history, current events, and yes, the Constitution.

However, the current crop of Tea Pary candidates appears to be slim in the intelligence area. Sorry, I don't care who was a Wiccan or Satanist, but I care how smart a person is. And the empty head from Delaware is not smarter than a 5th grader.

In my book that disqualifies anyone from being President.

What a change two years brings. Two years ago, when the Republicans brought up Obama's lack of experience, the Left had an absolute fit over the claim, the MSM media ignored the issue, and anyone that brought up Obama's inexperience was termed a racist. Fast-forward to today, and now all of a sudden a Senate candidate in Delaware is termed "inexperienced", well now that one is now okay to talk about, and we'll see the Democrats and MSM pick that one to death.

Hypocrites.

Considering her statements about masturbation, I don't think she is going to like the Republican Senate caucus.

I really don’t care how wacky Ms. O’Donnell is or whether she is Wiccan or Satanist. I do care whether she will vote in the Senate as a learned person who understands that while she may represent Delaware she will vote to make laws for the United States of America. Her past troubles me. Particularly that she has not been financially responsible concerning her personal income taxes, her financial obligations regarding college loans and the foreclosure on her home. She seems to have spent a lot of time running for public office but not looking for private employment that would pay her bills.

She just doesn’t seem like “Senator” material.

Who is Christine O’Donnell from ThinkProgress http://thinkprogress.org/christine-odonnell-record/

For the whole article and the actual quotes go to the above URL. Warning: Some id this is real ugly I have copied only a few of the headlines.

I see a lot of comments on her dabbling in Witchcraft, I think I will write that off as being young. We also have Steve King asking Boehner to sign a Blood Oath.

Here is a partial list from ThinkProgress on some of her views.

ON WOMEN

O’Donnell believes the proper role of a woman is to ’submit’ to her husband. ”

O’Donnell warned that allowing women to attend military academies ‘cripples the readiness of our defense.

O’Donnell believes Sarah Palin is the ‘epitome of a modern woman.’ O’Donnell believes Roe v. Wade needs to be overturned.

ON HOMOSEXUALITY

O’Donnell doesn’t understand why gays get ‘upset’ when called ‘deviant.’

O’Donnell believes gays are ‘attacking the very center of what is America.’

O’Donnell believes AIDS victims should not be called ‘victims,’ and that too much money goes to fighting the disease.

ON SCIENCE

O’Donnell warned about mice with ‘fully functioning human brains.’

ON TRUTH

O’Donnell is so fervently pro-truth that she wouldn’t lie to Nazis looking for Jews in her home.

O’Donnell doesn’t believe in shades of gray.

In a lawsuit, O’Donnell falsely implied she was getting a masters at Princeton

ON GOD AND RELIGION

O’Donnell says she “dabbled into witchcraft.”

ON PROGRESSIVES

O’Donnell believes that Obama’s liberalism makes him ‘anti-American.’

O’Donnell warned that the ACLU is trying to ‘institute a communist country.’

O’Donnell believes House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is a false Christian. “

O’Donnell warned that former President Clinton hosting a TV show would be a ‘threat to our national security.’

ON HER CAMPAIGN

O’Donnell compared herself to Ronald Reagan.

O’Donnell feared her political opponents are ‘following’ her and ‘hiding in the bushes.

ON CONSPIRACY THEORIES

O’Donnell warned then Sen. Joe Biden had pushed a U.N. ‘global tax.’

O’Donnell wanted to investigate President Clinton for murder.

O’Donnell called the Supreme Court a ‘constitutional monarchy.’

ON THE ECONOMY

O’Donnell believes Bush did a great job saving the economy after 9/11.

JoAnnaSmith:

anyone that brought up Obama's inexperience was termed a racist.

Please tell us exactly who it was that said anyone with concerns about Obama's lack of experience was a racist. I don't recall ANYONE who said that. Under the newly enforced policy of civility on the message board, you can't accuse somebody is lying. But I will say that JoAnna is remembering things that didn't happen. She seems to do that a lot.

She sounds nuttier than squirrel poop.

Left-wing panic attacks always come in the form of the politics of personal destruction, so why should this year be any different?

Amazing,

So as you liberals put it O'Donnel believes in the Imaginary guy in the Sky, and you democrats think she is some kind of crazy person for doing so,

Let me ask, Obama believes in that same "Imaginary guy in the sky" as do most of the democrats that hold office. Or at least they tell us they believe. . I wonder. Is Obama some kind of Crazy?

"Left-wing panic attacks always come in the form of the politics of personal destruction, so why should this year be any different?"

Always fun to watch the Conservative tendency toward projection, constantly accusing their opponents of doing exactly what they are doing. The term "politics of personal destruction" is particularly amusing since it was coined specifically to describe the Republican effort to take down our legitimately elected government. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/scaifeside050299.htm

D. Walker

From your post from - Catholic Apologists - It states, As you read, you may disagree. So I disagree. I take the eucharist as a remembrance of the sacrifice that Christ went through. Not as anything else.

I don't follow the teachings of Vatican I or Vatican II, edicts of Lyons or whatever else you want to throw at me. Unlike you may think not all Catholics fall in lock step with the Pope or some institutional provisos.

Since your next post will probably include, BUT what about.... I don't agree with what the evil 'CHURCH' did during the inquisition, during the Crusades, during the middle ages, during the priest molestation scandals etc. Funny to see that people like you don't understand that the Church is the people, not the institution.

Really "funny" how your post hyperlinked to a thread about delusions. See also: Invisible Pink Unicorn and Flying Spaghetti Monster. I guess your funny little terminology and attempts at humor shows a lot about who you are. Interesting that it seems to be always the left side who scream for separation of church and state, an idea I hold dear, are the same folks that tend to belittle or mock anyone's faith.

You have your freedom of speech to mock me for my beliefs. That's ok with me. I guess there is not much else to say.

Peace 'fellow traveler'.

*** Obama’s day: At noon ET, President Obama participates in a town-hall discussion on jobs that’s sponsored by CNBC. Then, later in the afternoon, he heads to Philly to host three fundraising events for Democratic Senate nominee Joe Sestak and the DNC. Meanwhile, Vice President Biden today campaigns for Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland.

hmmm, i thought he was going to roll up his sleeves, and get to work on the economy???? nope! wrong again, off on the cam-pain trail once again to stry and save his buddies from getting canned...

John B,

Observation right on. This is a typical Karl Rove manipulation of the facts. Accuse your opponent of what you are guilty of. They do it all the time. They call it spin, I call it deceit.

to all the folks squaking about religion. There are many in the US who do not have any religion. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean we think all people who have a religion are NUTS, or CRAZIES. The people who we think are CRAZIES are the folks walking around chest bumping eachother yelling go GOD!.

Keep your religion out of Politics and it wouldn't be an issue. but the people on the right tend to keep draging it back in.

IF you truely want to see what happens when a "Christian" authority rules, all you have to do is look back 300-400 years... you really want that? I dont.

Keep your religion out of politics and i'll do the same. But if you keep insisting that there is a Guy in the sky, and he's watching everything i do, then i'm going to keep calling your a superstisious week minded fool.

and quit quoting the Bible for reasons as to how things should be done. The bible is a collection of works agreed to by a committee during Roman Rule to congel a growing empire.

nothing more.

anyone that brought up Obama's inexperience was termed a racist.

First mention of THAT on this post. By definition, no one attacking Obama could be considered a racist in this day and age.

This just in from Big Brother. Definition of "racist": Any person other than a non-Hispanic White, or any non-Hispanic White who refuses to self-identify as such.

The term "racist organization" refers to any group or association that maintains all people should be treated equally, without regard for attributes such as race, skin color, national origin, etc. or that maintains that any group of people, other than non-Hispanic Whites, have ever been singled out or persecuted on the basis of ethnicity or other such characteristics. See entry for NAACP for more information.

Please burn all old dictionaries and history books that may inadvertently use these words improperly.

I think it's funny how people slam McCain for picking Palin when Obama picked Biden. For everything you can blame Repubs you can counter with a Dem. Quit the blind following and think for your selves for a change.

Do you think the same reporters did the same sort of investigation into our President? What neat stuff would they have dug up on him, but then again, the news media and the liberals would have easily dismissed the bad behavior as the exuberance of youth. This is Palinism media, destroy the candidate because we don't like her values. Stop being the news and report the news objectively. Maybe then your bottom line will look better.

I guess for you libs is ok in your side to have tax cheaters , and KKK members , illegal immigration supporters nominated in key positions in the Government. However coming after Christine O’Donnell like a “witch hunter” , is really sick . Because liberals don’t agree with her position the media bias controlled liberal loons start with the character assassination. Typical..... . The conservative movement with the support of main stream America will lead the victory in November , not doubt about it. Obama is so desperate that don’t waste any minute in campaign trails and fundraising, however it wont repair the damaged done. Sorry in November the victory is ours. See ya'

SmilingBob

I agree with keeping religion out of politics. I'm as liberal as they come. I understand that some people don't have beliefs. Fine by me. However, I will call out anyone who mocks or points fun at anyone's beliefs. Whether they be Liberal or Conservative.

I've passed over many a thread over my time here where Catholics/Christians are singled out and or ridiculed.

Am I above posting or enjoying little snarky remarks, no but I've always said make your point without the hate or ridicule.

Another thing I've said before is that the media is fascinated with nontroversies. Looks like I contributed to this one. The big point is that O'Donnell whatever her religious past, is now a Christian. All of that has nothing to do with anything. I don't care what her religion is.

What is more important is that she has no ideas on how to spur economic growth, deal with unemployment and has said some wacky things.

Steve-505729 No sane liberal thinks O'Donnell is crazy because she is Catholic, a conservative Christian, or believes in God. Whether people have mocked belief in God or Catholicism specifically does not translate into liberals thinking O'Donnell (spelled with two L's by the way) is crazy for her religious beliefs. It is true many of her very conservative social positions are positions of the Catholic Church (lust even without acting on it is a sin, etc), and it is also true that you’ve never heard other conservative Catholic elected officials discuss these issues publicly, but people, including that noted liberal Karl Rove don’t think O’Donnell is a nut and unelectable for her religious views, but rather statements she has made, and actual questions concerning her past.

Others have already highlighted some of these statements (scientist have developed a human brain in mice, etc). She claims she’d never lie, but lied about obtaining her undergraduate degree, and lied about post graduate education. She lied and said she almost beat Biden in the 2008 Senate race, even though VP Biden had his largest general election victory margin ever against O’Donnell. When O’Donnell came in a distant 3^rd to run against Carper in 2006, she then ran in the general as an Independent. She didn’t take enough votes away from the GOP candidate to effect the race, as Carper had more than 50% of the vote.

Houston, it continues today, if you are critical of the policies coming out of the White House you are branded a racist by the media. If your facts are strong, you don't need to revert to playing the race card, but the media did not vet Obama or his views. They gave him a pass and did their best to cheerlead him into the Oval Office. When he spoke off the teleprompter like he did with Joe the Plumber and it was caught on tape, what did the media do...they went after Joe's background, rather then focus on what the "candidate" said about redistribution of wealth.

She went out with some guy who was a weirdo when she was in high school. Let's burn her at the stake! Get serious.

Had she embraced witchcraft or some other fruitcake or vicious philosophy for 20 years like a certain individual who sat in a church pew for 20 years listening to a certain reverend rant about black liberation theology and how evil white America is, then we'd have reason to be alarmed.

TJM07

Houston, it continues today, if you are critical of the policies coming out of the White House you are branded a racist by the media.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true, TJM. However TJM does deserve some brownie points for working not-Joe not-a-Plumber and teleprompters into a single paragraph. You get extra credit if you also include "Ground Zero Victory Mosque" into your next opus.

Hawkeyed,

They are the ones that used the Term "imaginary guy in the Sky".. to define O'Donnell,

I was just pointing out that Obama Believes in that same "Imaginary guy in the Sky".. yet no Critisim of him for Believing in something they claim Doesn't exist.. Well Go figure

hmmm....Obama "dabbled" in cocaine.

the people she was hanging out with were not wiccans, they were Satanists.

Houston! , well if that is the case, there is no excuse.....

wlee

I think it's funny how people slam McCain for picking Palin when Obama picked Biden. For everything you can blame Repubs you can counter with a Dem. Quit the blind following and think for your selves for a change.

How is Palin different from Biden? Let me count the ways. No, never mind. There are far too many to fit in this space. But here are a few: Biden has been in the Senate since 1979, is an expert on foreign affairs and well known and respected by many world leaders, and was chair of the judicial committee. Those are just three of the many qualifications of Joe Biden. He was one of the least rich members of the Senate. That shows that his heart and mind are with the people and not his wallet.

Now, about Sarah Palin: she was governor of Alaska for 1/2 term, and then she quit to make a bank load of money for herself. She was elected to be governor only because Alaskans were sick and tired of Murkowski and Palin was there. It was lucky timing for her, that's all. We can't count her time as mayor of Wasilla. The president of a medium-large high-school student body has more responsibility than she did. I was born in Alaska, have family there, and know of what I speak.

So, go ahead and count all the ways that Palin is equal to Biden in qualifications. One thing I will give you is that Joe Biden's mouth has gotten him into trouble. However, it is only because he tells the truth as he sees it. Sarah Palin, on the other hand, says whatever is convenient at the moment. Remember when the Alaska committee found her guilty of ethics violations. When asked for a comment, she said that the committee acquitted her of all charges.

In order to think rationally for yourself, you must know the facts. Then, and only then, can you form an opinion that counts for anything.

O'Donnell will probably weasel out of her "youthful indiscretion" by claiming to be a "Christian" now. Her stridently anti-sex views fit right in with the fundamentalists.

"Sex is a wonderful thing given by God, so do your best to suppress it and rid yourself of those sinful God given urges, and don't even think of touching yourself down there!"

On another subject, religious freedom does not mean freedom from disagreement and insults. You may not like the fact that others disagree with your "sacred beliefs", and it may be rude to insult what you consider to be holy, but religious freedom does include the right to disbelieve.

It is not necessarily "insane" to believe in God, but it certainly can be insane to believe "God" speaks exclusively to you,

TMJ07:

You apparently slept through the campaign of 2008. If you think the MSM did not go digging for dirt on Senator Obama you are sadly mistaken.

The good news is that Barack Obama, the college student, grad student and law school student had already shone the light on his"youthful past"with his book where he talked candidly about his indiscretions including drug abuse. He wrote the book before he even got into politics.

You see, the truth and self-determination allows you to tell the truth and make it hard for others to to define you and write your narrative.

It seems to me that putting people who hate government into the government is asking for trouble. One of the things that disturbs me about some of these tea party candidates is that I see no evidence that they have any understanding of our system of government or of what the Constitution actually says. I don't know when they stopped having civics classes in schools, but I would like the people in charge of the country to have some basic understanding of what the function of government is and how it operates, why we have the system that we have and what the responsibilities of representing the citizens of this country are. In my opinion, elected representatives are not elected to represent only the people who agree with them, they are elected to represent everyone in their district, thus some consideration has to be given to those they don't agree with. You can say what you want about Obama's inexperience, but have you looked at the experience level of some of these tea bagger candidates? At least the President has a basic understanding of Constitutional law.

One thing is for certain - none of this has ANYTHING to do with whats best for the United States and it's people. Our politics and Govt have been reduced down to a sporting match, where all that really matters is WHO WON this election cycle. The Tea Partiers can pretend like they are all angry and riled up and voting out the washington elite (on both sides! just to show how they mean business) but when you are not voting IN anyone with anything solid to offer in way of - i dont know - addressing the very concerns you have...what exactly have you accomplished, other than making a bigger mockery of this entire process?

I dont think this Faux Anger from the tea party or moderates or conservatives has anything to do with the direction of this nation, a ballooning deficit or the non-existent threat of Socialism-Marxism-Communism (are all 3 even capable of existing togheter?)...but rather, pure disgust at the reality that they were beat (SOUNDLY) in the 2008 elections...that the results of that election indicated that their brand of BS was fading and fast.

What's worse, is that meanwhile as we yo-yo back and forth between both parties - nothing is getting fixed, the problems are getting worse...and nobody cares to ask WHO BENEFITS by our division and distraction, because it certainly isnt WE THE PEOPLE.

I think perhaps we all have a secret death wish for the united states, otherwise it makes no sense why both sides continue to pretend like it's the other sides fault...when it's abundantly clear, we are all to blame.

Wasn't Miss Mcdonnell about 17 years old when she did this??? Everyone who has had a teenager at home sees this sort of thing. They are still children at that age and need a little guidance.

Anyone rember Hillary Clinton holding a seance in the white house to try to contact some long dead first ladies??? Now she was no teenager at the time.

You obviously supported a candidate for president that smoked crack,sought out radicals and Marxists. Many of his closest friends were both. That, of course is no problem, because he was young and he is your guy. Give me a break--- Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one seems to get it...It dosen't matter what Christine does with her religion. Dosen't matter at all. The only thing that matters is how she will vote on our economic issues. Taxes, spending, immigration, cap and trade, trade deficit, earmarks. These are the issues, period.

Really Edward? It doesn't matter what Christine does with her religion? Seems like the right wing has a litmus test for everyone on the other side of the aisle. Perhaps a more correct way to phrase it is, it doesn't matter what RIGHT WING candidates do with their religion.

These are dangerous waters we're wading into. One of the great hallmarks of this nation is that we've stood for well over two centuries without violence marring the transition of power (barring one instance) - as it typically does in dozens of other countries.

I agree with you on this one: for Sharron Angle to suggest armed, open rebellion in the event she doesn't get her way come election day is not only wholly un-American, but tantamount to treason.

Sorry to say it but our traditional limits are preventing us from being "overly critical" of the more outrageous candidates on the Right. The Right is in no way constrained in the same way. Once we destroyed politicians for telling the truth, then we smeared the reputations of legitimate heroes who came only a fraction from giving EVERYTHING for country http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/10/06/max-cleland-i-cried-uncontrollably-for-2-1-2-years/ . Emboldened by this, Conservatives no longer are constrained any way by facts. It's time to take off the gloves and call them the liars they are. Otherwise we drop into a world where the only facts are gray facts http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100919/NEWS09/9190338/-Gray-facts-color-campaign-in-partial-truths and there truly is no difference between fact and fiction.

The right is arming themselves against tyranny because wing nuts like Angle and Bachmann tell them what their version of tyranny is--never occurs to the true TP believers that they are the tyrants.

"Afghanistan fighting the Taliban and making it safe for those folks to exercise their rights and privileges"

You are really cluesless as to why we are in Afghanistan, because that is not the reason.

And Senator Angle is speaking the truth. she is not suggesting, she is observing, and stating the fact that Arms sales in the US exploded.

Nation-building isn't part of the strategy? Then why do we waste our time guarding polling stations and propping up a puppet democracy? Wouldn't it be easier to install a military governor and call it a day, put the whole damn nation under martial law?

It is frightening, isn't it IR? The difference between the Democratic and Republican parties are obvious to those interested. The Democratic Party has NEVER celebrated the fringe elements, the Republican Party takes their worst excesses and makes them what? Candidates for office. I can remember in the 70's the Republicans talking about the "Rockefeller Republicans". Those were the moderates. They have systematically worked to purge the reasonable voices and are now identified purely by the wing nuts, Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck, and people like Angle who instead of being investigated for advocating violence against a political opponent is celebrated. Those of you who support this bunch owe the rest of us an explanation: if the reverse were true, and Democratic candidates were talking about what amounts to anarchy, would you call them patriots? Or would you call them what they are. Treasonous anti-American zealots.

IR -

This loony Angle is so dangerous that she's advocating assassination. Do you think she even understands that? God help us if we allow these wackoes to get elected.

NDD: The Democratic Party has NEVER celebrated the fringe elements

Too funny.

It's the fringe elements of the Democratic party that are currently in charge, but not for much longer. The country has gotten a taste of the big government far-left liberals, and it's found out it doesn't like it much. The Democrats even have their resident Socialist with Bernie Sanders, which goes along nicely with the other Northeast and West Coast liberals who just haven't brought themselves to calling themselves that same name as Bernie calls himself.

And then of course, there are Alan Grayson and Anthony Weiner who make fools of themselves on a daily basis wallowing in their left wingnut liberalism.

The Democrats celebrate their far left fringe liberalism everyday, but soon they'll so do so as the minority party, and for that we can all be greatful.

And FrankUSA we are in Afghan why??

Nice bit of Conservative canned rhetoric, JS1. Care to give us a current example of "Socialist" legislation from the Democratic Party?

And you haven't answered any of the criticisms above, just pointed your fingers like a child and pouted "He does it TOO!!"

John: You have it exactly right. The right wing, who are so locked into their Taliban like enthusiasm, misunderstand "reasonable" and automatically try to make it an excess, the poor JS1 being an example. Which is why I say to you, my friends: STTS.

This is getting richer by the day. Now the Republicans have "Taliban like enthusiasm", are "inexperienced", are "dangerous", are "frightening", are "loony", are "tyrants", and we're going into "dangerous waters".

And those are the terms the liberals use in describing the Right in just this small thread.

Of course the libs can't make this an issue based election, they'd lose that argument every time. So they'll just keep up with the goofy attacks, it's the only tiny little Hope they have.

Pointing out that someone essentially called for open rebellion and armed conflict in the streets is a bad thing? Hmm.

Okay. Catching my breath, I need to point out that the handful of comments here pale in comparison to a lot of what comes out of the right - and especially what comes out of you. As far as the issues go, I've yet to see you have a factual debate on any topic that didn't devolve into hyperbole after a post or two. You got close once, but other than that you tend to just reguritate whatever you've seen on TV recently.

Do you have any actual points to make, Joanna, or can you not contain yourself when the chance to spite someone comes along?

Also, you know, what do you plan to do should the Republicans screw up after the mid-terms? Assuming they land a majority and proceed to wreck the place up, what then?

Exodite, while I agree with your passion and point - probably ought to tone it down on the language,...Just STTS,...

No point getting yourself banished in a battle of wits with the ill equiped,...

Sometimes it's tough to fully repress the angry guy with the cowboy hat. <_<

JoAnnaSmith:

The Democrats even have their resident Socialist with Bernie Sanders, which goes along nicely with the other Northeast and West Coast liberals who just haven't brought themselves to calling themselves that same name as Bernie calls himself.

Bernie Sanders cooperates with all the non-socialists. He has not tried to disrupt the functioning of our non-socialist government in order to get his way like Senate Republicans do all the time. He also has not called for armed rebellion if he doesn't get his way as some of the Tea Party favorites have done.

Neither Sanders nor the other Democrats you're smearing are extremists any more than Ron Paul, whose ideology is as radical on the right as Sanders' on the left. But I wouldn't consider Paul an extremist, either, because he's not among the crazies in the Republican who are eagerly talking about shutting down the government if they win the House or Senate or resorting to armed violence if they don't win. (Ron Paul's son is another matter entirely.)

JoAnnaSmith - Of course the libs can't make this an issue based election, they'd lose that argument every time. So they'll just keep up with the goofy attacks, it's the only tiny little Hope they have.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So far, I haven't seen or heard any specifics from the repubs regarding issues, merely the same hollow generalizations they always spout off about, i.e. tax cuts for the rich (which has already been proven ineffective to those who bother to pay attention). Instead we have the same shallow ramblings about social/moral issues that only serve to divide the populace at time when folks are angry about substantial economic problems. The repubs are expert at misdirecting this anger towards the dems and away from the true villains, the corporate globalists who are working right now to take from you JoAnna. Dem/repub doesn't matter to these guys, they just want your stuff.

You people are the reason the majority of the country don't vote you sound like a bunch of little kids bickering.

its quite Funny Indy Lib that you somehow Believe that it is the Republican party that has Directed any Anger towards the Democrats.. this is the liberal Mindset. You all Believe the American people are not smart enough to make Decision based on what they See coming out of this Disfunctional Congress and White House, I understand that you dont want to blame the Man (Obama) that is responsible for the Critisim and Outrage the American people have right now.

You libbys get your Talking points for HateMongers like Chris Matthews, Ed Schultz, Keith Oberman, and Rachael Maddox, then Regurgitate those Talking points on these pages as if they are the true,

Really we understand that You expect the Govt to take care of your Every need.. but there are those of us that believe you should learn to take care of yourself.. and that is the Anger you are seeing in this country right now!!!

Houston, you need a job!

Projection is such an interesting phenomenon.

Frankusa "You are really cluesless as to why we are in Afghanistan, because that is not the reason."

we are there for their resources, same reason Russia invaded them. it's not about terrorism, it's about the trillion dollars in resources just waiting to be exploited by greedy white men, while brown men do all the hard work and get paid very little for it. God must be so proud of his people :-)

"And Senator Angle is speaking the truth. she is not suggesting, she is observing, and stating the fact that Arms sales in the US exploded."

It's good to know that our knuckledraggers arent that much different than the knuckledraggers in the middle east "if we dont get our way, we'll shoot you up"...here's the thing, im not a violent person...but I would DEFINITELY take up arms to protect america FROM YOU if you decide to you have to start a civil war beacuse the majority of america no longer agrees with YOU (as evidenced at the voting booth)

Corporate power fueled by unemployment has provided a sad state for OUR economic future. Business can and are demanding pay cuts of employees, reducing benefits and expecting longer work hours of those remaining. Yes, in a recession employee layoffs are necessary but today corporations demand pay cuts because they can threaten the workers' jobs, they have the power and the worker has no voice against it. It is a short-sighted economic vision. In the end, those workers will be less able to buy the products they make and that make the companies profitable. Without a strong, viable middle class making money, there is no economy.

Jody, that's a prime example of EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Those demands for pay cuts will be defended by a lot of people because "it's how the market works." All well and good, but NO ONE is demanding pay cuts from the CEOs who mismanaged our economy into a multicar pile up with huge casualties. And now we're talking about PROFITABLE companies demanding wage concessions from the people who do the work JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN. My question is simple. How does an impoverished workforce help to support the American economy?

It can't, so we shift to a new Conservative storyline. The few wealthy people, too few to support a government with their taxes we're told, are supposed to hold up the entire economy! That's right, we should be grateful to the few because they are the only ones who provide jobs and keep the economy moving, but asking them to provide for the common welfare is "stealing their money."

John B.

Good point. I said it before and will repeat it again, if the middle class disappears (keep loosing ground where our income goes down and the rich get wealthier) there will be nobody to buy their services and products. The current model pushed by the right where the country is controlled by a small percentage of the people is not a viable environment for democracy. It will eventually fail as History has demonstrated time and time again.

Most Small Businesss fall in the 98% and they will be gone as well. I will look more and more like a Charleston Heston movie.

John B, Des Moines, IA:

Speaking of corporate welfare...

Our friends on the right never mention the farm subsidies being enjoyed by Senator Grassley and Michelle Bachmann. In the case of Grassleu we're talking six figures!

What with all this government spending and deficit being out of control, I suggest Grassley and Bachmann give it back.

Now there.

Reid should bring it up for a vote before the Nov. Elections, this one act will ensure, both houses how congress will have a change in leadership.

DREAM is the right thing to do. These children came with their parents, they had no choice in the matter. McCain no longer knows who or what he is least of all what he once proudly supported--he sold his soul to win the nomination. He is unwilling to support our troops, will vote against funding the military--he called democrats who voted against military war spending because they wanted a timeline unpatriotic. Sounds like a flip flop of epic proportions.

Thanks Jody. This should have very little opposition. Not only is it the right thing to do but it helps our military and raises the level of education for all of us which will help bring jobs to America.

As for McCain – “There’s no fool like an old fool”

Frankusa

John McCain did not vet Sarah Palin before appointing her to be his V-P candidate. Yes he did, and she was actually the most experienced person on the ballot for President. And has a huge national following.

Actually you're wrong Frankusa

Bill Kristol and other republicanas were looking far-right politics, female, and then attractive on their checklist to match Hillary.. They were just smitten by her. They described her wearing high heels and saying, "Hi, I'm Sarah," and introducing herself charminglyand, how gorgeous she was. They called her a "honey." Bill Kristol called her "my heartthrob."

Dick Morris the disgraced aide to President Clinton and now FOX NOISE LYING pundit sort of pulled her aside for a private conversation, which she then revealed later to the group, in which he said, "If you want to be successful politically, you've got to continue to hold onto your image as an outsider. Play up that outsider thing." And obviously, she has.

http://www.alternet.org/story/105359/the_real_story_behind_how_mccain_chose_sarah_palin/?page=entire

BTW: McCain wanted Trader JOE Lie-berman and only spoke to Failin Palin for 15 minutes.

___________________________________________________—

John B, Des Moines, IA

Frankusa just ignores things he can't dispute. It's the Conservative way with facts.

Now, he'll need to pay attention; John.

I disagree Jody. The quote I agreed with is "Why legalize those who cam through the back door when we have a line at the front door".

Speed up legal immigration for those who have been waiting in line.

Alan, NJ. The children did not choose the back door, why punish them.

JODY,,

I guess if some Illegal Minor Murders your Child we should not Punish him, I mean after all its not his fault he is here. Its his parents for bringing him.

Steve, we're not talking about juvenile delinquents here, we're talking about the children of hard working parents who are also hard working and have been doing well in school. Should they be punished for their parent's "sin" of "illegally" coming to find work? Apparently so, in your view.

Those applying for citizenship under the DREAM act would have to meet the same standards demanded of other applicants, and could be denied citizenship for involvement in any felonies.

This should be debated and voted on after the November elections. That way we can sit down and talk it over and decide what I want. I think Whorehose Harry Reid is the one dreaming with this bill. (the last gasp of an exiting low intelligence senator) Good riddance harry.

Perhaps it is the hip hit of the holidays! Remind me to do a hammer-signing at my local Lutheran church.

Thank you for sharing the video of Palin, my respect for her has grown.

Feisty Redhead:

First we had Grama Grizzly going through some kind of prayer ritual/exorcism by the Kenyan witch doctor known as Thomas Muthee...

Newt Gingrich's attack on President Obama as a "Kenyan anti-colonialist" makes that incident kind of ironic, doesn't it? I'd rather have a Kenyan anti-colonialist running things than Republicans who hang out with witch doctors and what's worse, believe in Voodoo Economics.

Feisty

With all this news about O'Donnell I'm humming "Black magic woman" by Carlos Santanna. Got to love those guitar riffs.

Also - Watched Da Bears beat the Boys! It was a great game. After the game my wife and son refused to speak to me.

However to be fair. Chicago is only 1 and 1. They lost the game to Detroit fair and square. The catch by the Detroit receiver WAS a touchdown.

Giving Chicago the win when they didn't deserve it was like... Well it was like the Supreme Court giving Bush the Presidency when he didn't deserve it. :}

Good Morning Feisty: I like your title. Many years ago Cher had a title hit, "Black Magic Woman." You hit all the main points.

BTW congrats to da Bears. The Colts are back to their winning ways so life is good.

Thank you for sharing the video of Palin, my respect for her has grown.

Sounds like a personal problem!

Houston - we are on the SAME page!

Yellowdog & Ron - thanks for the well wishes - got to agree with you YD about the touchdown last week... but we will take the 'W' no matter how 'ugly' it was (there were also some BS calls against da Bears earlier in the game - just proves that Karma thing really is a b!tch) ;0)

Frankusa we all know you get your kicks by viewing videos of Palin. To you it doesn't matter what she knows or how smart she is it's just how good she looks. You must be one of those old white males that's got a thing for Palin.

Fiesty,

Black Magic Woman LOL.

How could you forget the other fake and ceremony. That'd be Glenn Beck's "Right of Nation" rally scratch that I mean hate fest. Glenn Beck stole Dr Martin Luther Kings words now at this Right of Nation rally(hate fest) he stole President Obama's "We are 40 days from fundamentally changing America, said the supposed egalitarian ( read xeno/homophobic Tea Bagger) Beck.

Also, Glenn Beck told Tea baggers to leave those absurd, silly, looking, hats and tea bagger outfits at home. Yet, Tea Baggers still wore them. Maybe he cast on spell on them or there was a secret code on his blackboard; which he brought with him? Or maybe they were celebrating Halloween early; silly corporate shrills!!!
1,600 to get your picture taken with Glenn Beck. Crazy!

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/09/glenn-beck-says-tea-party-will-set-things-right.html

Morning Bev!

Did you see all of the empty seats at the Sears Center for BeckaPalooza Sat?

They said they sold 5K tickets but there was NO way that hatefest was sold OUT! lmao

Feisty

Did you see all of the empty seats at the Sears Center for BeckaPalooza Sat?

They said they sold 5K tickets but there was NO way that hatefest was sold OUT! lmao

A friend of mine called me to tell that it was on ABC. I MISSED THE FUN. I'm going to CLTV maybe they'll show some clips.

Hey, do yo guys remember me asking what Beck was going to be next? A fire man? a Big Rig driver? and Astronaut??

Well, last week he revealed it..... A TV CHEF!

Wotta goof!

US Navy: Last week, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) made it abundantly clear that he has no interest in extending the Bush tax cuts for only the middle- and lower-class

Apparently neither do many Democrats in both the House and the Senate. The following article shows where many Democrats are signing on to extending all the Bush tax cuts:

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/119293-whip-count-democrats-in-favor-of-extending-all-of-the-bush-tax-cuts

So Democrats, when these tax cuts are extended, or even made permanent, just what does the Democratic party stand for? Democrats have been railing against the Bush tax cuts for nearly a decade, and now when their moment of victory has come, the Democrats flinch and are ready to continue those cuts.

Democrats, what are you even voting for if your party can't even let these tax breaks expire?

The same things the Republicans are voting for, apparently: bull@!$%#.

Interesting, JS1 that you keep hammering on the point that a handful of Democrats are willing to consider breaking ranks with their party. Far better in your view the Republican approach in which a handful of Conservative leaders are able to impose their plans upon everyone with an iron fist approach. Which of these approaches to governance is more democratic? Apparently you're comfortable with allowing a few at the top of society to dictate to everyone else what we should do and think. Funny, that doesn't seem very American to me.

And you've completely ignored the most important issue here, the budgetary havoc that the Conservative elites' smoke and mirrors policy will bring about.

John B, Des Moines, IA: Interesting, JS1 that you keep hammering on the point that a handful of Democrats are willing to consider breaking ranks with their party.

Handful? 35 Democratic House members and 8 Democratic/Indie Senators are a "handful"? That's not a handful. That's a revolt.

And I like your characterization of the Conservatives with their "iron fist" approach, all 41 of them in the Senate and 179 of them in the House.

And you've completely ignored the most important issue here, the budgetary havoc that the Conservative elites' smoke and mirrors policy will bring about.

What budget? The Democrats elected not to do one this year? Instead they have implemented the "smoke and mirrors" process of passing billion dollar bailouts of one thing or another every couple of weeks. Like that's not creating any "havoc".

The Democrats have truly lost.

Thirty-five of two-hundred-fifty-three is 13.8%; eight of fifty-nine is 13.5%. That's hardly the raucous revolt you think it is, Joanna. Did you not make it through algebra in middle school, or is hyberbole your only method of debate?

Show me these bailouts "every couple of weeks." And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the whole idea of a Wall Street bailout begun by Henry Paulson in the closing days of his tenure and the Bush administration? Didn't the Democratically-controlled House, in fact, vote down the measure when it was first proposed, only passing it at the behest of the White House?

Read, Joanna! Learn to read and research, Christ almighty. Every time you post you do a disservice to conservatives everywhere with your blatant disregard for the truth.

BTW JoAnn these Democrats your so excited about, they're about as weak a human being there is, and all their doing is trying to save their own job. I truly believe there are moderate republicans that would be a lot better than these sell out Democrats. We've had enough weak self serving politicians in office.

So JS1, you're STILL ignoring the most important issue here. The Conservative budget doesn't work, yet you expect the Republican Party to be recognized as the party of fiscal responsibility. How do you square these obviously contradictory things?

John B, Des Moines,IA: So JS1, you're STILL ignoring the most important issue here. The Conservative budget doesn't work, yet you

It doesn't work? You mean it doesn't work like the Liberal budget doesn't work? You know, that non-existent budget that Pelosi, Reid, and Obama agreed not to produce this year?

All of sudden you on the Left are concerned about the budget! You haven't been until now. Why the change? Obama's "budget" isn't squaring to the tune of trillions, and now all of sudden it's a concern to you lefties.

Here's the deal John. Someone, and it certainly isn't the Democrats, needs to start saying NO to about a $1.5 trillion a year in federal spending. If it's not the Republicans, it won't be anyone. This country is in dire need of a "Party of No", and not a "Party of Give Everyone Everything" like we have with the Democrats.

Exodite;

Touche', The only thing it appears many of the right read on here is their daily Talking Points from TP, bye JS1 you lost (again).

Cute, Joanna. You didn't even bother to address my points: so I guess...I win again?

And yet you haven't even bothered to address the evidence above showing that the Conservative plan will only make it worse in the same way that uncompensated tax cuts have been making our deficit worse for 30 years. In fact you've been asked repeatedly but won't respond except with the canned Republican script. Your tacit admission that you have nothing to stand on is duly noted.

ED: Thirty-five of two-hundred-fifty-three is 13.8%; eight of fifty-nine is 13.5%

Ohh, did you figure that out yourself? Seen your type before ED, you got all the answers, even when you don't understand the questions.

ED - you really must think of yourself as the smartest person in the world. You are one arrogant person. That's fine, keep it up, the smugness of you and your type will get wiped of your collective faces real soon now.

With those Democrats voting for extension of the tax breaks, both the House and the Senate are both real close to passing that legislation and sending it to Obama. So how will it look ED? How will it look if/when the Democrats filibuster the legislation in the Senate, you know the legislation that if it isn't passed will raise taxes on everyone. Who will the "Party of No" be then ED?

And it will be so much fun watching Pelsoi and Reid standing up on their respective floors of Congress, arguing FOR the Bush tax cuts, the very cuts they have demonized for nearly a decade. The Democrats will have to finally admit that lower taxes are better for the economy.

Enjoy the spectacle ED. I know I will.

You think, erroneously, that I can be neatly settled in a box labelled either "Republican" or "Democrat." That's your big mistake in judgment when dealing with me: I don't fit the mould, so your scripted responses have difficulty countering opinions and viewpoints that aren't the typical clap-trap.

Consequently you have to resort to generalizations with me in the hope that your shotgun approach will nail something; thus far, you've missed the mark each and every time.

I'm in favor of raising taxes. I'm in favor of slashing federal spending. I'm in favor of reducing the deficit, and reducing it now, instead of trying to let everyone have their cake and eat it, too. I prefer short-term pragmatism instead of short-term apathy. My position is not a popular one, but it is my opinion and so far I've been met with little in the way of compelling counter-argument from either the left or right to make me change my mind.

Merely because I argue with you doesn't make me a liberal - but you cannot fathom that and do not understand that my approval of Reid and Pelosi is poor. You figure that because I disagree with you on your methods of making your so-called 'points' that I clearly must stand for everything you despise - with you there's only black and white, no shades of gray.

As far as labelling me smug: if you liken reasoned debate to smugness, you're in a world of intellectual hurt and that is not my problem. That's yours.

Truly ED, you have a dazzling intellect. I'm certain the people you are closest with are in total awe of you.

Thanks for finally seeing the light. You can forward your donations to the office of the Texas comptroller.

"And it will be so much fun watching Pelsoi and Reid standing up on their respective floors of Congress, arguing FOR the Bush tax cuts,"

Not nearly as much fun as watching Conservative Republicans argue that tax cuts for 98% of us aren't important, it's the top 2% that really matter. Poor, poor unfortunate billionaires. At least the Republican leadership knows on which side their bread is buttered.

The hypocrisy continues. This time the people respond, from ThinkProgess a few minutes ago.

As auto blog Jalopnik reports, the plant recently held a ceremony to welcome back the new workers to begin production of the Ecotec engines. Attending the ceremony were three local Republican legislators, Sens. Bob Corker, Lamar Alexander, and Rep. Marsha Blackburn. Ironically, all three of these lawmakers opposed the plans to save General Motors and other U.S. auto companies. This didn’t stop Corker from taking credit for the federal rescue, anyway. At the event he claimed he “contributed to strengthening the auto industry in this country.” Jalopnik reports that “irony of the Republican lawmakers’ presence wasn’t lost on the workers who attended the ceremony; they booed Tennessee Republican Bob Corker”:

“The irony of the Republican lawmakers’ presence wasn’t lost on the workers who attended the ceremony; they booed Tennessee Republican Bob Corker, and one UAW official made clear from the stage that the union still remembered which politicians had voted to rescue Wall Street but opposed an auto industry bailout”.

Exodite Dragon

Totally off topic, but being that you mentioned the Comptroller, my wife works as an enforcement officer for the Comptroller. Anyway, with the Texas biennium estimated to come up at least 20 billion dollars over budget do you think that Texas needs to implement a state income tax to supplement the sales tax?

Not talking from the left or the right , I'm just wondering what someone inside the Comptroller's office thinks.

John B, Des Moines,IA:

"And it will be so much fun watching Pelsoi and Reid standing up on their respective floors of Congress, arguing FOR the Bush tax cuts,"

Not nearly as much fun as watching Conservative Republicans argue that tax cuts for 98% of us aren't important, it's the top 2% that really matter. Poor, poor unfortunate billionaires. At least the Republican leadership knows on which side their bread is buttered.

It's looking more and more like the Democrats will vote through at least an extension, and possibly make permenant, the Bush tax cuts John. How does that make you feel? I mean, you and you ilk have been ranting about how the Bush Tax Cuts have ruined America, and now, the Democrats are posed to at least let 83% of those tax cuts continue for those under the arbitrary "rich" income of $250,000, and there is better then 50/50 odds that the tax cuts are extended for all.

And this will be done by a very liberal Democratic congress with a very liberal President. All for the "billionaries" you speak of. Guess we know on what side the Democrats bread is buttered.

And you liberals will finally have to admit that lower taxes are better for the economy.

Tough admitting your side was wrong, right John?

JoAnna. Your point about dems seeing the light is what? Dems and some republicans said tax cuts during a war was irresponsible. Increasing tax cuts during a Great Recession while the economy still stumbles along is equally irresponsible.

@Yellowdog-Mark D: I'm really loathe to suggest a state income tax. To the contrary, I think the thing to do is boost the sales tax and see where that leaves us. I'm sure you're aware that state-wide the rate is a mere 6.25%, while municipalities are allowed to boost it as high as 8.25%.

I'd like to see an incremental hike from the current rate to 7.5% and still leave the door open to that extra 2% for metropolitan concerns. In tandem with that, while we've already trimmed the prison budget, I believe we can do more in the short-term. I shudder to spend any amount of money on substance abuse & rehabilitation programs while we're possessed of such a severe shortfall and certainly don't want to "pull a California:" cutting state-sponsored university funding while leaving extraneous prison programs intact.

I know that may offend some, but let's be perfectly frank here - the rights and resources of inmates should always take a backseat to other state needs in times of a fiscal crisis. Rehabilitation programs can be reinstituted when we have the funding to pay for them. As it stands now we can barely afford to procure additional vehicles for law enforcement.

Going back to the education issue, however, I have never been a fan of the public district finance 'reform' legislation that was passed back in '06. This took income normally composed of local property tax and replaced it with -state- funding, which has seen an exobitant and exponential increase year over year since then. I want to see that legislation repealed and the schools return to the pre-2006 funding method: that might even be enough to avoid a hike on the sales tax.

Is there a middle ground?

Perhaps we need to look at doing another variant of extension. Let the tax cuts for the rich expire now, make them pay the Clinton rates. Extend the tax cuts for the middle class for one year then let those expire as well.

This may not happen because Obama and the democrats wouldn't want the middle class cuts to expire right before an election year. So they can write in that if you don't have a job or earn a certain level, let say less than $100,000 couple filing jointly your tax rates stay the same. Those with a $100,000 income or more go back to Clinton era rates.

If this can be done the Democrats will be seen as compromising and realistic.

Ex D

Reasonable suggestions about the sales tax rates. However concering the Departement of Corrections who appear to be the ones to take the biggest hit, they estimate a job cut of probably 7000 correctional officers, probation officers etc. I wouldn't want, and not saying you do either, prisoners coming out early because staff weren't able to house them for the duration of their sentences.

I disagree that a 10% across board cut of budgets from the LBB is going to do anything. Agree about the state universities, several colleges are trying to reach Tier 1 status and demotion of research dollars and staff will not help that.

On the school financing issues, I would think that without some state funding inner city schools with deteriorating property values wouldn't get a fair shake.

Maybe we just allow gambling and call it a day. :}

Its so funny to watch the Liberals on this page Arguing that anyone is going to get a TAx Break.. Taxes are either Going to go up.. or they are going to stay the Same.. NO one gets a Tax Break.

Liberals have Watch their Democrat President and Democrat Congress overspend by 1.5 Trillion dollars last year and 1.3 Trillion dollars this year.. They hate that anyone would Suggest that the American People should be allowed to keep their money. Money they Feel Belongs to them. They want all this Entitlement Spending but they dont want to pay for it. They expect someone else to pay for it. Why dont all you Liberals Vote to Raise all Taxes on Democrats no Matter what the income Range. Put your monies where your mouths are..

Any backing for your position that an extension is "more and more likely", or are you just repeating what you heard in the "alternative media" as usual?

Of course, you haven't backed anything else up today, I don't know why this would be different.

Speaking of which, you still haven't answered the original question, one that has been repeated several times. Republicans are supposed to be all about fiscal responsibility, Conservatives hold fiscal restraint above nearly all else. At least that's what is said, yet the Republican plan in no way works in the real world. What about that?

@Yellowdog-Mark D: Hah, you know? I'm alright with bringing the gambling income home, provided we sanction particular areas in which to do it. Rather than go all willy-nilly with it (because, let's face it, a lot of communities would about @!$%# themselves to see dens of 'vice and ammorality' spring up overnight), I say we apply the NIMBY factor to where casinos and the like could be set up, to what degree they can advertise, etc. But why let Louisiana reap the rewards of dollars best put back into our own coffers?

About the corrections budget, well, that really is a tough issue. I am certainly not in favor of letting any inmates go for want of corrections officers, which is why I'd like to see how many jobs can be saved there by cutting other programs - if we can get a net savings without restricting our ability to keep control of the prison population overall, so much the better.

The local school budgets and property taxes: I understand that lower property values in the inner city are a contributing factor to the poor performance of those schools. But, being a Houston native, I can tell you that the greatest problem with HISD is the nepotism and cronyism running rampant through that district. If this were a time of surplus I'd suggest an objective, state-sanctioned review of all public schools via distanced observation: in other words, subterfuge and spying. There's something rotten in the land of Denmark.

Thank you! THIS is what we should be talking about...not witches and wiccans or whatever.

What is the Repubs plans? Give me one good reason they should get my vote.

Bush and the Republicans already 10 years of credit for their tax cuts - and the doubling of the national debt that resulted from it. Why should the Democrats extend the Republican tax cuts and give them even more credit?

A far better course for Democrats would be to let the Bush tax cuts expire, then propose their own tax cuts, and get their own tax cutting credits. A good start would be increasing the personal deduction, which would benefit all taxpayers, especially the working poor.

Pat, Boston, MA

The Australian-British-continental model of politicized media that Murdoch has applied at Fox is un-American, so much so that he has little choice but go on denying what he's doing as he does it. For Murdoch, Ailes, and company, "fair and balanced" is a necessary lie.

That is really interesting and probably another reason for people who get their Unfair and Unbalanced news from Fox Noise? Another reason the public should look at Murdoch is why did he leave Australia. He did do tabloid journalism there.

Correction Pat, it's not Fox news It's the FRN (Fox republican network). They lost their news credintials when they declared they were the voice of the republican party.

Mo: Correction Pat, it's not Fox news It's the FRN (Fox republican network). They lost their news credintials when they declared they were the voice of the republican party.

So how do you feel about all the other news, both network and cable, that gave 88% of their contributions to the Democrats? Have they lost their news credentials with you now too?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Obama-Democrats-got-88-percent-of-TV-network-employee-campaign-contributions-101668063.html

Who said any thinking person in this country gives any kind of credence to any major American 'news' source anymore?

I'm glad you finally agree JoAnn that FRN (Fox republican network) isn't real news. Keep it up and you'll come around to reality eventually.

A "witch" in the Senate? Not really clear why that might be a problem, you know, what with Left always pushing for diversity and all. Had a flat out drunk and killer in the Senate too, oops, involuntary manslaughter, oops, a Senator leaving the scene of the accident (it's amazing what a good lawyer can do for you) in Teddy K. Had a KKK leader. Had a Senate leader named Harry Reid who disparaged the troops in Iraq when he said "The war is lost". And now the Left is worried about a little witch showing up? Too funny!

It's amazing how quick the Left and MSM media have a knee-kerk reaction in seeing a "checkered background" when the candidate in question is a woman and is a conservative. You start to see their true colors in situations like this one.

Yeah, we also had a pair of recovering racists that organized cross-burnings and lynch mobs for five decades, too, Joanna. We let that one slide.

It's not that the left is against the idea of her having been a witch; it's that the people who propped her up as their mouthpiece didn't bother to research her past and picked her based solely on the fact that the Republicans are entirely too quick to run anyone who might have Ann Coulter's sex appeal without first determining if there are any chinks in the armor.

So, bearing that in mind, if you want to talk about which party is actually exploiting women by virtue of them being conservatives and female...

Good reply Exodite Dragon, the main problem with these extreme right wingers is that they run on one set of rules and live by another. I am kind of tired of folks who say I should behave one way and they don't - which is what the republican party is made up of these days.

"A "witch" in the Senate? Not really clear why that might be a problem, you know, what with Left always pushing for diversity and all."

But, but, but...conservative rightwingers are always telling us you have to be Christian to be in government. Isn't witchcraft about as close to committing blasphemy as you can get? Rightwingers wouldn't even support a Mormon for President, now they are going to work like crazy to elect a former Wiccan? So much for principle.

Wouldn't it be great if all of our candidates from both parties could be qualified and honest? Why is that too much to ask for?

God only knows.

Union Baby, Tennessee

Good reply Exodite Dragon, the main problem with these extreme right wingers is that they run on one set of rules and live by another. I am kind of tired of folks who say I should behave one way and they don't - which is what the republican party is made up of these days.

I agree Union Baby ,

Exodite Dragon always has facts and a quick quip.

Kudo's to Exodite Dragon for making that clear distinction.

Also, how can right wingers moralize or justify too much government coordinating and regulatory policies

From…

*one food contamination episode to another ( eat it or not)

* to the BP oil spill ( killing 11 workers and creating one of the biggest environmental disasters in our national history))

* to toys are tainted with lead

* to the coal ash ponds

* BP oil spill saga began, killing 11 workers and creating one of the biggest environmental disasters in our national history. (murder due to no government regulation)

* to people being killed in incidents involving unintended acceleration in Toyota cars. (murder due to no government regulation)

* to 29 coal miners were killed in the West Virginia explosion. (murder due to no government regulation)

Heyyyyy, Stop the next crisis before it happens forget about the too much government when you go in the booth. 9.4 % of tax dollars comes back to US. .What a wonderful world it would be without the GOPT, Dick Armey, the Koch brothers , and Bush's Brain (Karl Rove )

)))))))Laughter(((((( Stop laughing. This is serious business it will be gone if we elect the GOPTP..

Where’s the Outrage?

Now you went and did it Exodite. Its probably gonna take Ms Smith the rest of the day to come back with something. And I was really enjoying how everyone was ignoring her.

I can't ignore stupid. It's always just...right in my face.

It won't take her that long FrankH, she'll just read another one of her talking points from Beck, that doesn't make any sense.

ED: I can't ignore stupid. It's always just...right in my face.

Admiring yourself in the mirror again?

Well, I would were it not for the fact I've got print-outs of your posts taped all over it.

Whatever the glowing box says must be the truth~

Good Morning Nash

It's so easy to stick to just the facts; but some how if a person intently ignores facts, the best thing for them is to have the elephant in the room slap them in the face. I really hope it doesn't happen to America..

I remember when you did the research --The President said that unemployment will not go over 8% if the Stimulus passed. I really do blame the corporate media for perpetuating that lie.

Good post, Nashville Fan. If a lie is told often enough people start believing it, even the people telling the lie. Where is the media calling out the liars? Where are the Republicans who know that these are lies, calling out the liars? How do they sleep at night?

Goes to show you that some people can be fooled all the time!

A Kentucky newspaper man wrote an article about Rand Paul. In it he quoted verbatim Rand Paul's view that not all abortion should be illegal; he supports abortion for rape and incest victims. The journalist received hundreds of e-mails accusing him of lying, of misquoting Dr Paul because, as they said, they know he is anti all abortion--they just know it. The words the true believers hear are the words they want to hear.

Howdy Steeler fan . . . thanks for your comments.

Allow me to publicly eat some crow . . . as I predicted that my Titans would defeat your Steelers . . . but alas, on Sunday, right from the coin toss, my team was toast! lol

Will the curse of the Terrible Towel ever end? ;o)

You are as gracious in defeat, Nashville Fan, as your Titans were in giving us those 7 turnovers that made it possible! You made it exciting in the end, for sure!

People don't generally know this, but the licensing of the Terrible Towel benefits an autism charity here--so at least it goes to a good cause.

Go Steelers! Woot, woot, woot!

Are there any recovering newts in the audience?

Yes, but so far Mr. Gingrich has not gotten better.

I'm so glad you caught the pun. 8D

It's a fair cop.

Can anyone here tell us how sheeps' bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes?

You are wise in the ways of science, Sir Knight.

Well said. The republicans are offering nothing new, no new ideas or vision for the future just the same well worn tax cuts, small government ones that drove the car to the edge of the cliff where it clung with two wheels on land.

Did you watch Meet The Press on Sunday? I wanted to kiss my TV screen watching Colin Powell take on the extremists in his party, which you never see Republican leaders or pundits doing. I would totally vote for Powell for President, and I am a lifelong Democrat. I wonder when the moderates in the Republican Party will wake up and realize the party they thought they belonged to no longer exists? You will never see a Colin Powell nominated by the Republican Party, they are off the rails.

Amy B. Portland, ME

Did you watch Meet The Press on Sunday? I wanted to kiss my TV screen watching Colin Powell take on the extremists in his party, which you never see Republican leaders or pundits doing.

Yes, I did.

Dick Gregory tried to humiliate by Gen. Powell but David Gregory got punked by Gen. Powell instead in my opinion. LMAO

MR. GREGORY: It--this time about a year ago you were in a, a feud with former Vice President Cheney, with Rush Limbaugh, about the nature of the Republican Party. And this is what you said in May of 2009: "Rush Limbaugh says, `Get out of the Republican Party.'" He was talking to you. "Dick Cheney says, `He's already out,'" speaking about you. "I may be out of their version of the Republican Party, but there's another version of the Republican Party waiting to emerge once again." That was a year ago. Is the tea party what you had in mind? about a year ago by GEN. POWELL: Well, I have to point out that Mr. Cheney pulled that comment back a few weeks later and thought maybe I should stay in the party if I chose to remain in the party.

GEN. POWELL: Well, I have to point out that Mr. Cheney pulled that comment back a few weeks later and thought maybe I should stay in the party if I chose to remain in the party. Right on Gen. Powell I was so glad to see a voice of reason rather than hate and lies.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39235412/ns/meet_the_press-transcripts/ns/meet_the_press-transcripts

Well said Amy we need more reasoned people like Colin Powell on these talk shows. Instead of the talking heads, Pundits and just out right lairs.

Patrick Salt Lake City

Judging from the pundits spin on Morning Joe, O'Donnell will do just fine. By the end of the week she will be nothing less then a modern day Joan Of Arc.

Don't forget she'll also close the gap between humans and fully developed mice brains; mainly Tea Baggers..

So, in high school, O'Donnell had a brush with witchcraft. In high school, Obama hung out with a known Communist, drank alcohol, smoked cigs and weed. I'd say they're about even! And, seems to me, no matter what party's in power, they're usually practicing some kind of black magic in D. C.

Did you see the Jon Stewart show where he annouced a Rally for reasonable people in Washinton D.C.? That's our reality today: a comedy show needing to advocate for a return to sanity and civility in politics.

You know how sometimes in film and theatre you see scenes of otherwise perfectly rational people confined to state asylums because they can't stop laughing over the absurdity of human existence?

I'm not far off.

We've had 17 election cycles since 1830 in which the President-elect received less than 50% of the vote: does that make all those men 'enemies of America?' Lincoln was elected with only 39% of the vote in a three-way race; Truman and Kennedy both received 49%.

Quantify for us how Sotomayor is a racist. Point specifically to things she's stated and/or done that demonstrates her inequitous attitude.

It's funny how you say the writers are out of touch with the average American simply because you imply your average American is cut of the same cloth as you.

Exodite, shhhh! You're interfering with the Conservative narrative!

Exodite Dragon

Quantify for us how Sotomayor is a racist. Point specifically to things she's stated and/or done that demonstrates her inequitous attitude.

Because Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Hannity, Ann Coulter etcetra said so.

BtW: Can anyone quantify for us why Ann Coulter doesn't resemble a witch and why Sarah Palin and Cristine O'Donnell sound like two old harpies?

Exodite, Have some one read to you, Ricci v. DeStefano, then come back to discuss.

So what? Bush didn't receive a majority of votes either in 2001, in fact, he lost the popular vote to Al Gore.

@Frankusa: The Second Court of Appeals siding with New Haven's attempt to avoid a potential race-relations nightmare does NOT make Sotomayor a racist. If that's the best evidence you've got, you're still sorely lacking.

Would you like to demonize the other judges involved in the decision to accede to New Haven as racists? Are Arterton, Katzmann, Calabres, Sack and Pooler all racists as well? Or are only minority judges presiding over cases that don't end favorably for white plantiffs capable of being racists in your eyes?

I also like how you failed to address any of my points about your other assertions. You're just no damn good at this whole 'debate' thing, are you?

avoid a potential race-relations nightmare, Dragon... when favortism is shown because of no other reason than the race of a person or group... that is racism. You asked for an example and one was given, Don't you hate it when facts just destroy your argument? lol.

Not true Frankusa, Racism is the notion that one race is inherently or intrinsically better than another. Affirmative action doesn't presume that at all. It presumes that prior racism justifies an action designed to compensate, evening the playing field. You can try to redefine the terms all you want, it's a staple of Conservative strategy, but the facts are not on your side.

avoid a potential race-relations nightmare, Dragon... when favortism is shown because of no other reason than the race of a person or group... that is racism. You asked for an example and one was given, Don't you hate it when facts just destroy your argument? lol.

...so basically, you didn't actually read my post. That's cool. I won't waste precious bits of digital space on you in the future.

Don't quit Exodite I love it when you and John B make Frankusa look like a fool. But I understand you get frustrated when the only response you get from Frankuse is Beck talking points.

The right wing nuts are basically scared people afraid of change because they are not in control of it. They act out like scared children, and tend to lie to support their lack of confidence because they do not have the capacity to meet face to face in the ring. Their supporters are some of the most out of touch, angry people that are puppets told what to think.

The only in America slogan does apply here. You have truly ignorant people and pundits supplying the thought seeds and feeding and watering constantly. If you want to understand look at people like Hannity. That guy is the high school rat that would say anything to get something. Got beat up a lot becvause he was a dweeb, and now he has the ear of a bunch of vulnerable unhappy not probably so educated folks.

Only in America! I am proud of America and much of what has been fought for. But we truly have to fight against these wing nuts. We have to smash that movement because they will make us again the laughingstock of the world.

And Clinton was and still is, an enemy of normal Americans

And your evidence is? Right wing hyperbole and "talking points" and malicious rumors don't count, they are unproven and thus not actual evidence. I'm waiting... (cue crickets)

Fact is, the country was thriving during the Clinton administration, unlike the 8 years that followed. Another fact is, in spite of vigorous efforts by a Republican controlled congress, they couldn't make any of their malicious rumors and lies stick, so they finally had to settle for investigating a little whoopie. Never mind that Republican Sen. Ensign was making far more "whoopie" with his secretary and ended up having to buy off his mistresses husband... Or Rep. Vitter and the hooker... Or Larry Craig of "wide stance" fame... or Foley, et al.

The list of Republican hypocrites is a long one indeed.

The problem here is that Conservatives have begun to believe their own propaganda. In fact the Republican Party has been handed off from propagandists to people who were weaned on that propaganda and don't know any better. That's what makes this bunch so dangerous. Disingenuousness is giving way to true belief in crazy ideas.

It's the same "pull yourself up by your boot straps", "I got mine to hell with everyone else" rhetoric the Republicans have used for years with the usual "God" thrown in. This from the same Republicans that dismantled and shipped overseas the infrastructure that are required for a middle class. Before the Reagan years people worked good paying manufacturing jobs with health insurance and the promise of a dignified retirement at an early enough age to enjoy it, the Republicans took all that away, now people work harder for less, no health insurance, no retirement and if the Republicans have their way no Social Security or Medicare, how can anyone that isn't wealthy even consider voting Republican? And yet apparently they do, in record numbers, people best hope God will save them because the Republicans ain't.

"What did Values Voters like Christine O'Donnell talk about at their meeting? Fear that the government will regulate light bulbs and toilets."

Exactly, what is even worse the Dems have been in controll of congress 4 years, and instead of dealing with Poverty, they pass laws reducing freedom of consumers and pass laws on lightbulbs and toilets, and then cut funding for food stamps and medicare.

W Bush, why do you think the republicans cling to god so much. They know the only way out for them is if there is a god. Their morals or values won't save them. But what they don't understand is their selling their souls to the devil.

Nice reply Frank? You scared to debate to like the wingnuts? Gonna stand there and pretend you don't have a glaring issue and point at others? That was a 4 year old response, something we tell our children not to do. "Billy, you need to answer, don't be pointing at Timmy"

Talk about family values? The right wing nuts are the poorest examples of value to the family I have every seen. It is disgusting, it is ignorant and it is trailer park trash arguments and ignorance to an extreme.

We are all TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY! But I sure am not aligning myself with what I really think is what Christ "the real Christian" warned us all about, The liars and the hypocrites coming in his name, professing the higher moral ground, disguising what they truly are. Funny thing is the disguise is a cheap dime store version.

Ron Paul's form of the TEA PARTY was basically taken over by the freaks of America club. Not to say they are all freaks, but the people they look up to and quote are some of the most glaringly out of touch snake oilers out there. See V for Vendetta... That is what their government would be... Scared people afraid of change and have to tightly control things because of their insecurities.

We have to fight this dumbing down of our country and our values. These people are NOT Christians, they are power hungry fools leading blind. Getting us into wars we don't belong in. Coming up with grade school solutions they thing are common sense because somebody that did not understand the problem said, "oh, all we have to do is this"!

The roaches sure have come out of their hiding places, and they are proud of it. We need to shine the light on them so they can scurry away. There is really not much of a difference between Al Qaida and the current movement in this country. You cannot reason with them because they are not playing with a full deck, so therefore they are not even at the table, not in the ring. They have no solutions, only half baked taking points that are laughable.

They are an embarrassment to the family and children because they act like the worse in our children. When confronted, the change the subject, there is no accountability, no self awareness, just out of touch black and white, and misguided.

Nashville_fan

And I don't remember any other President going to a meeting of House leaders for the opposition party, asking for their ideas, and taking questions.

That's because there weren't any. Thank you pointing that out.

NF: Now my memory might be a tad fuzzy, but I don't remember any other President going to as many town hall meetings, and taking as many questions from regular folks, as President Obama.

The guy does talk a lot. Too bad he never gets any positive results from all of it.

Maybe they could harness all the hot air he produces and have it turn a generator, produce a few kilowatts of energy.

You first, Joanna. Hell, it's a good thing you type all your responses; otherwise your mouth might be a major contributor of greenhouse gas.

Now my memory might be a tad fuzzy, but I don't remember any other President going to as many town hall meetings, and taking as many questions from regular folks,

Funny, hand picked supporters asking hand picked questions, sponsered by CNBC. It does't get any funnier.

Frankusa:

Interesting how you make and assertion, yet you cannot back it up. CNBC has not been friendly to the President, as it is the voice of Wall Street, owned by GE, a corporation that paid no U.S. income tax in 2009.

President Obama routinely has folks standing up and heckling him in these town halls (hell, even when he speaks to Congress), so I would challenge you to back up what you say or stop lying.

Wow, Exodite Dragon. That was the best post of the day by FAR and I totally agree with you.

Do we have any conservatives on this blog that can actually make a cogent argument that we can learn something from?

Please step up.

So true, Nashville Fan. In fact the Tea Party ORIGINATED with CNBCs Rick Santelli http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/20/rick-santelli-i-sparked-t_n_731249.html who went on an extended rant about how grateful the rest of us should be of the rich and how sick it is that society dumps on the unfortunate wealthy...pretty much a summary of the entire Conservative way of thinking.

Funny too that as usual in Conservativeland up is down and left is right when it comes to contact between Barack Obama and the public. When GW Bush would come to town the audiences were preselected and when he made an appearance in my neighborhood the entire property was ringed with heavy equipment so that he couldn't even be seen going into the building. When Barack Obama comes to the area the news media usually has a web site where the general public can go to sign up for tickets.

And I don't remember any other President going to a meeting of House leaders for the opposition party, asking for their ideas, and taking questions.

Which Idea did he incorporate into the already written legislation, at the meeting? So what you are saying they wrote the law/bill, had a meeting, asked for the Republicans ideas, he was given pages of the ideas, and not 1 was incorporated.

Do you really consider that reaching out to the other party?

Pietro:

Good morning. The answer to your question is no. Pretty much the same every day.

Frankusa:

Seek and ye shall find:

Obama Will Include Republican Ideas in Health Care Bill

In a letter to congressional leaders, President Obama said he wants to incorporate Republican ideas on medical malpractice reform and trying to rid the health care system of waste and abuse in a revised proposal for health care reform. . .

No matter how we move forward, there are at least four policy priorities identified by Republican Members at the meeting that I am exploring. I said throughout this process that I'd continue to draw on the best ideas from both parties, and I'm open to these proposals in that spirit:

1. Although the proposal I released last week included a comprehensive set of initiatives to combat fraud, waste, and abuse, Senator Coburn had an interesting suggestion that we engage medical professionals to conduct random undercover investigations of health care providers that receive reimbursements from Medicare, Medicaid, and other Federal programs.

2. My proposal also included a provision from the Senate health reform bill that authorizes funding to states for demonstrations of alternatives to resolving medical malpractice disputes, including health courts. Last Thursday, we discussed the provision in the bills cosponsored by Senators Coburn and Burr and Representatives Ryan and Nunes (S. 1099) that provides a similar program of grants to states for demonstration projects. Senator Enzi offered a similar proposal in a health insurance reform bill he sponsored in the last Congress. As we discussed, my Administration is already moving forward in funding demonstration projects through the Department of Health and Human Services, and Secretary Sebelius will be awarding $23 million for these grants in the near future. However, in order to advance our shared interest in incentivizing states to explore what works in this arena, I am open to including an appropriation of $50 million in my proposal for additional grants. Currently there is only an authorization, which does not guarantee that the grants will be funded.

3. At the meeting, Senator Grassley raised a concern, shared by many Democrats, that Medicaid reimbursements to doctors are inadequate in many states, and that if Medicaid is expanded to cover more people, we should consider increasing doctor reimbursement. I'm open to exploring ways to address this issue in a fiscally responsible manner.

4. Senator Barrasso raised a suggestion that we expand Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). I know many Republicans believe that HSAs, when used in conjunction with high-deductible health plans, are a good vehicle to encourage more cost-consciousness in consumers' use of health care services. I believe that high-deductible health plans could be offered in the exchange under my proposal, and I'm open to including language to ensure that is clear. This could help to encourage more people to take advantage of HSAs."

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/03/02/obama_will_include_republican_ideas_in_health_care_bill.html

This letter was dated March 2, 2010. The President met with the Republican House Caucus in January 2010.

Chuckles...either religion matters or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways no matter how much you try.

CU Farley

What's worse, hanging out with some occult losers in high school 25 years ago, or attending a racist, hate-America church for 20 years and having the so-called reverend marry you and your wife and baptize your kids? Nevermind. I know your answers already and it's pathetic.

Cu Farley, please tell me, how have you come to the conclusion that Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago is a racist church. i grew up near that church. that church has served that community for 50 years. long time before Wright was pastor and Obama became a member. one of my best friend who i grew up with had his funeral at that Church and the service that was given by Wright. it was not filled with racist talk, it was a funeral service. Oprah, has been a member of that Church for years along with alot of hard working middle and upper class south siders, mayor Daley attended special event at that Church. if it were as racist as you have concluded, then why would our white mayor be seen there.

Farley, your not from chicago, problily have never been there, never cared in the past about chicago, so why the hell do you care about a church that has done something you just hate, and that serve a black community through alot of tough times.

hey fartty, what Church do you attend, I'm a black Lutheran.

All Farley does is spout what he hears Beck whine about. No thought just following Beck down the path of destruction.

You forgot Obama's high school experience of hanging out with a known Communist, drinking, smoking cigs and weed.

Maybe it's not a fair way to judge character but it seems to me the GOP is only reaping what it has sown.

Da Noid: Maybe it's not a fair way to judge character but it seems to me the GOP is only reaping what it has sown.

Kind of like what the Democrats are doing this year.

I guess the Republicans are looking so good today because of the way Obama and the Democrats have behaved the last two years. Obama said meetings discussing HCR would be televised, they weren't. He said bills would be available for all to see three days before he signed them, they weren't. He said he'd work with the Republicans, while all along he with Pelosi an Reid slammed the door in the Republicans faces. Stump speeches by Obama where used more to degrade his enemies, the Republicans, then to sell his agenda. 2000 page pieces of legislation brought up for final votes, never read, never understood, the infamous line from Pelosi "Now that's it's passed, we can find out what's in it". Votes for the Obama/Democrats legislation were reached with barely, if any, votes to spare, even with many Democrats voted against Obama's legislative objectives. And of those votes, many were openly purchased with bribes to wary Senators and House members.

Then there was the spending. The none stop spending, and for what?

And through all this, the economy tanked.

Liberals, now maybe you understand why the Democrats are doing so poorly this election year. Democrats have certainly earned their place with their poor performance.

So I guess the Democrats are reaping what they have sown.

Joanna, stop being denser than a lump of lead. Time and again we have to go over the fact that the Republicans precipitated the economic collapse by relaxing regulations on Wall Street and pouring billions upon billions into a pair of near-decade long wars.

Jesus, God, it's like arguing with a tape recorder.

My sister-in-law is a wiccan and a Tea Partier, so these affliations seem pretty natural to me. Admitting to dabbling in witchcraft won't hurt O'Donnell with her supporters, but it may give Independents and traditional Republican voters pause.

So ED - Just when do the Democrats and Obama ever become responsible for anything, at least in their tiny little minds? You just cannot seem to figure out that most Americans know that current crop of Democrats have fouled the country up even worse then the old-guard, and soon changing of the guard, Republicans have. It's remarkable that the likes of you just keep parroting the Democratic dogma that "It's never our fault". Yes it is. Yes it very much is your fault. From the economy, to illegal immigration, to unemployment, to the deficit, it is your fault. And the voters will tell you so very soon now.

Remaining ignorant of what I have to say does not make you any smarter and it doesn't make your brand of nonsense any more correct.

Blame should be placed where blame is due; the Democrats and Obama have a great deal to answer for, in my mind. I feel lied to and betrayed and have stated as much innumerable times on this blog and others.

My problem with you is that you ignore the truth when it doesn't fit the squeaky-clean narrative presented by the right-wing. You buy into whatever gets said by anyone sporting a GOP pin without actually doing any research to determine if that's said is factual or not. You demonize me for 'parroting' left-wing talking points when I am anything but a card-carrying Democrat and anything but a far-left liberal; this is an irony given you continuously offer blanket statements instead of actually offering cogent discourse. You claim I give the Democrats a pass in the same breath you absolve the Republicans.

If the Democrats are to blame, I will blame the Democrats; if the Republicans are to blame, I will blame the Republicans. Do not try to pigeonhole me simply because you can't stand up to me in an argument.

The hypocrisy of the right continues. They still refuse to acknowledge that we are in this economic pickle because of their mismanagement. Two unfunded wars, two unfunded tax cuts, a unfunded prescription program, reduced regulations on big business (oil and gas). They claim that President Obama is spending too much, totally ignoring that he has to, to correct the previous corrupt administration for which we are also still paying for that adds to the deficit and will for years to come.

The republicans keep saying we can't afford the Tax Cut Bill for Small Businesses (that is paid for by closing loopholes to big business), which they claim they support by the way, no money for the Infrastructure Bill that is partial paid for and economist and the Transportation Agency agree this will create 35,000 jobs for each billion invested. Republicans say we have no money for these job creating bills but we do have for the $830 Billion dollars to give the richest 2% an unneeded tax cut. The hypocrisy just does not stop with these people.

The republican budget (if they get elected) is about One Trillion Dollars more than the one proposed by President Obama. These people have No Shame, No moral or ethical compass. Just lies and more lies.

Exodite Dragon, you are wasting your time with Joanna Smith. You have refuted her postsarguments SIX TIMES already and yet she is back with the same drivel.

Save your breath/typing for a Conservative that can for a cogent argument.

Hopefully one will step up... Soon.

Thanks for the endorsement Peitro.

What I love about the Liberals on this and other boards is how frantic they are getting. The personal attacks are escalating, the pointing of fingers increasing, the Liberals getting more and more upset. And now the method of operation for the liberals is to just ignore the conversatves. Bury their head in the sand, or other places, and pretend that their hero, Barack Obama, hasn't fallen to the lows he has.

This after 20 months of Obama. Didn't take America long to figure out what a fraud this man is.

Joanna, you're anything but a conservative.

The "dabbling in witchcraft" comment was made on a national TV show in 1999, she was 30 years old. She also never said if this happened in HS or college. Frankly I think she made up the whole story to get attention on the show, but the fact remains, she made crazy statements repeatedly on national TV.

Exodite, when you call JS1 denser than lead, you insult lead.

You see, it does not matter what you say to her or how you say it. A while ago, I actually endorsed supply side economic policies under the right conditions (and these times are not the right conditions) but JS1 totally ignored it. She is a paid troll who does not actually 'respond' to any posts (she is only on here from 9 - 5, M - F). She'll put in little tidbits and copy and paste as if she is responding to your post but she actually has a book of what to say when someone says 'A', 'B' or 'C'. Just click on her name and read some of her past posts. You will find that they use the exact same words and phrases over, and over, and over again, and again, and again, ad nauseum. One of her favorites is: "I love how frantic the Liberals are getting." I bet if you Googled that phrase, she would be the top of the list with the most hits. Shoot, if you said, "I'm having pizza for lunch." She would respond that she loves how frantic the liberals are . . . hmm, I wonder if her real name is "Peggy"?

Ignore her, Exodite, your intelligence far out classes hers and should not be wasted on doing battle with an unarmed opponent. I read her posts for a good laugh and to remind me what intelligent, logical debate does not look like. But I really do wish she would learn the correct usage of 'then' and 'than'.

What do you know... I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one Matthew... as I'm SO enjoying watched her get chewed up and spit out by Dragon...

Notice she couldn't get out of here FAST enough?? LMAO!!!

Wonder where the rest of the 'grenade tossing' gang is today?

PS; you still got my vote! ;0)

Sagely advice I should take to heart.

So ED, I see your intellectual equal Feisty has chimed in.

And speaking of being chewed up and spit out Feisty, I noted with interest the main "conversation" for the last few days featured none other then, . . . . you! Apparently some people around here have a sense of entitlement, aren't responsible for their own actions, complain loudly when they think they are mis-represented, really struggle when it comes to understanding who is in charge, and continue the whining well after the event has concluded. You know anyone like that Feisty? These features of course would make you the perfect Obama supporter, because Obama does exactly the same things.

Any more to add to that Feisty? Or does that cover it?

I'll wait here with "baited" breath waiting for your response.

I'll wait here with "baited" breath waiting for your response.

Now you're catching on... I always knew there was reason you're referred to as a large mouth a@@! lol

I'd be careful there... don't want to get 'suspended' again now do ya hon?

...are you voting up your own posts, Joanna? Lawl. Give it a rest already.

Hey, Feisty,

It looks like the TS - JS1 has just summed up the Republican Whining Points and their reaction to the Election of President Barack Obama. They had a sense of entitlement to the 'power of government' (but not the governing part, just the power), They aren't responsible for their actions as we all have yet to hear them OWN Bush's role in this entire fiasco, they certainly have the Complain Loudly down pat, and boy howdy to they take umbrage when acknowledging who is IN CHARGE. yep, she summed it up,...

No point in baiting her breath, she'd catch some serious bottom feeders with it, I'm sure. At any rate, it is time to just STTS - seriously past time.

Feisty, that was one major league all-star smack down you took last week. First from the moderator, then from posters. And you didn't give up, you just kept coming back for more. OUCH! Maybe you learned from it, but I have my doubts.

You thought this was your sandbox, didn't you? You treated the moderator like he was your caddy, your go-for. How'd that work out for you Feisty? Good? Not so good? I have never ever seen any one as angry and hurt as you were. How tired the moderator must have gotten with your constant complaining, both in the forums, and with all the e-mails. "Un-collapse my post would you Mr. Moderator, and do it chop-chop!" That was quite the attitude. Looks like that little problem is now under control.

It was classic smack down Feisty. One for the ages!

See'ya around sweetie.

JS1 is just too precious! A laugh line with every post.

Misuse of 'then' (silly me! maybe she doesn't know how to spell 'than') and 'baiting' her breath rather than 'bated' breath! (As in short for 'abated', JS1.)

What a maroon. (Yes, I meant to say 'maroon'.) Vaudeville has nothing on this woman.

What WAS I thinking Clara & Matthew... psst...

You're 100% CORRECT STTSDB! lol

Yup! That was one 'serious' smack down wasn't it? LMFAO!

Matt: Misuse of 'then' (silly me! maybe she doesn't know how to spell 'than') and 'baiting' her breath rather than 'bated' breath! (As in short for 'abated', JS1.)

Ahh, Matt, your hero ED used the "Baited Breath" phrase in another post, I was just having a little fun with ED on that one. So maybe you can explain how it works to him, in an intellectual way of course.

And are you now the resident proofreader? That's seems like all you can talk about lately. You don't appear have much else going for you on the political front, so you have to show us all your "superiority" elsewhere I guess.

JS1, In case you missed it in my post for Exodite, because I know you have reading comprehension issues, here is a clue for you: click on my name and you can see all my posts and find out how weak your response is. Better do it quick before you break your arm patting yourself on the back for that supposed 'put down' you think you served.

Again, what a maroon.

Is she seriously keeping this diatribe going? My God. What a loser.

For those of you who are new to FR and have no idea what is going on, Joanna's post at 22.19 is a classic violation of the Code of Honor as posted by Newsvine. We are to have respect for each other, and this particular poster is in constant violation of that rule, and has in fact served a one day suspension for it. So, if you have not posted here before, and you are curious about the reference to the COH, you have only to look at that post to know what not to do. As to the lack of "middle" in the Republican party, that is why I left. I used to be very active, but found after Nixon that I could no longer condone the efforts to run the reasonable people out.

Feisty,

The "DB" was a nice added effect,...LMAO! thanks,

Hey Roy, let's make one thing abundantly clear here: for however much Obama's policies may have damaged the country, there is absolutely no way in hell anything he's done could top the potential harm Sarah would've wreaked.

McCain picking her was stupid. If he hadn't polarized the vote by wheeling out the pig with lipstick, he might've actually won. Vote would've been close, but he might've actually won. The worst thing about Palin being the VP nominee is that she's opened the door for any inexperienced hack armed with hand-scrawled (get it? 'Hand-scrawled?') sound-bytes, zero experience and the ability to fan the flames of anger and rebellion to have a legitimate chance to enter public office.

Don't take that to mean I'm blind to Obama's lack of experience: the difference between Obama and Palin is that Obama, like Bush-43, is well-educated and acts according to his principles. Both of them lacked business and political experience: Obama spoke and taught at university and had a term as a Senator; Bush ran (and failed) a hydrocarbon firm and had a single term as Texas governor. I may not have liked Bush, and I may not be Obama's biggest fan anymore, but I can respect both men for having done what they've done because they legitimately believe their decisions were and are correct.

Palin and this recent breed of candidate are not out there because they want to do right by us or by the country. They are out there to consolidate their egos and their political power and will say or do whatever they want to get there. However the wind blows, there shall they go - unlike Bush, who didn't give a damn about the poll numbers, and unlike Obama, who at least can outline a plan instead of just spouting the talking point of the hour.

Was she for "WE THE PEOPLE" when she served her half-term as Governor of Alaska?

Was she for "WE THE PEOPLE" when she quit?

Was she for "WE THE PEOPLE" when she wrote her book?

Was she for "WE THE PEOPLE" when she joined the lucrative lecture circuit?

Or is she simply for "HER THE PERSON" because she enjoys the money and power that her flock have given her?

Roy Holt. Now that's a laugh. President Obama was on the campaign trail for 2 years and considering he is half black, there is no way the opposition, including Hillary Clinton, and the media left no stone unturned. Don't give us the media was in his corner nonsense because they pounded him plenty, they looked for and reported every little thing. Prior to winning the Fed Senate seat, he served as an IL State Senator; he was well vetted.

Was she for "WE THE PEOPLE" when she served her half-term as Governor of Alaska?

Was she for "WE THE PEOPLE" when she quit?

Do you ask the same about our current President and Vice President? Of course you don't because you are so blinded by hate that your hypocrasy screams out, and you don't even realize it.

"you are so blinded by hate that your hypocrasy screams out, and you don't even realize it."

You mean the hypocrisy of thinking that someone who quits everything she's ever started once it gets difficult in order to join the guest lecture circuit compares favorably to a devoted public circuit who rode the train to work every day so his family wouldn't be deprived and a constitutional law professor, both of whom have never quit, even in the face of withering criticsm, much of which isn't even factual?

FrankUSA, don't know the answer to that question, but Obama did the same thing, except he continued to collect the pay check of a US senator while touring the country on the dime of the back of the tax payers. He served a little more then a year as a Senator before he began campaigning for the Oval Office.

Not vetted, what do you call a grueling Democratic primary with over 10 debates (and more public forums with all, or most of the candidates) a general election campaign, with every conservative activist group attacking him? Obama was vetted, and you may not believe he was the best choice, or qualified, but he was vetted!

People who claim Palin is more qualified than Obama really don't merit a response because they are delusional. But lets take a quick look at their qualifications anyway.

Education:

President Obama graduated from college in 4 years. He obtained his undergraduate degree from Columbia University the 4 best University in the nation. Palin began her college at Hawaii Pacific University, which isn't nationally ranked. She lasted one semester. She then went to North Idaho College, a community (2 year) college, then she went two semesters to University of Idaho, which is just barely in the first tier of national universities (ranked 153), then she transferred to a community college in Alaska, before she returned to University of Idaho where she received an undergraduate degree 5 years after beginning college. Palin has no post graduate education.

Post Undergraduate Education and employment:

Before going to law school Obama worked in Chicago as a community organizer, conservatives mock this without any basis. Obama graduated from Harvard law school a big enough academic accomplishment on its own, but he was also Editor of Harvard Law Review! Obama was employed in the legal field and as a Constitution Law Professor at University of Chicago Law school, he also was elected to the Illinois legislature.

Palin was a sports anchor for a year after college, then worked in her husband's commercial fish business. She was on Wasilla City Council then Mayor of Wasilla, and was elected Governor in 2006. Before Palin was picked as McCain's VP she had been Governor of Alaska about 18 months. In the summer of 2009 Palin quit her position as Governor, after servinghalf her term. In addition to quitting numerous colleges, she also quit various boards she had been appointed to, with the exception of HS sports Palin has a history of quitting.

In 1996, the same year Palin was elected Mayor of Wasilla, President Obama was elected to the Illinois State Senate. Eight years later in 2004 Obama ran and won the Democratic nomination for US Senate, where he served for 4 years before he was elected President. The only time Obama quit an elected office (Illinois State Senate and US Senate) was after his election to higher office. And he quit his community organizing job to attend law school. Obama, unlike Palin isn't a quitter!

There is no comparison between Obama and Palin either based on intellect or experience. Palin was the most unqualified VP pick ever (she made Dan Quayle seem like a great pick), and the American voters determined Obama was qualified to be President by electing him over McCain by a huge margin!

Frankusa there is a difference between someone quitting a position because they were elected to higher office (or even for personal reason-their heath, family members health etc), and someone quitting because it wasn't fun any more, or there were more financial opportunities elsewhere!

Had Palin resigned as Governor, and McCain as Senator because they won the election it would not have been an issue. No sane person on the left of right has criticized an elected leader who resigned his/her seat after being elected to a higher office (or even a lateral office- i.e. when Frank Murkowski was elected Governor and resigned his Senate seat)

So yes no one asked whether Obama and Biden were for "WE THE PEOPLE" when they resigned after being elected as President and VP. Obama resigned the day after being elected President, as his duties as President elected prevented him from continuing as an effective US Senator. Biden continued to serve the people of Delaware as Senator until January 2009.

And as far as Obama being on the campaign trail in 07 and 08, he was in the Senate for more votes than McCain, and those on the left didn't criticize McCain for being an absent Senator.

Technically, hawkeye, in all fairness, I harped non-stop about McCain being a no show senator. I continue to harp now. It's a part time friggin' job and it's an insult to working people when these putzes can't be bothered to show up because they are receiving a birthday cake on a tarmac some where while New Orleans floods,...or some other foolishness.

If Repubs want to whine, why didn't they just stay through Xmas break and fillibuster old school the HealthCare REform Act? remember that? they wanted out of DC so bad they 'let it ride'. So when they complain about having stuff 'shoved', I'd like to give them a personal demonstration of shoving, so they get to know it up close and personal.

Frankussr: Do you ask the same about our current President and Vice President?

rly? how can u compare those 2 things, the pres and vice won, duh they had to leave the senate to go on to surving we the people in the white house, where as palin lost and was free to go back and surve the people of alaska, but no she was all for surving her the person so she went out and hired someone to write a book for her to put her name on!!

did u even think b4 you wrote that? oh of course you did't because you are so blinded by hate that your hypocrasy screams out, and you don't even realize it.

Simply put, anybody that supports Sarah Palin outside of her family or cloese friends are morons. Sorry, but your bar is set pretty low and what a crock. And please don't hit me with the popularity crp. Hitler was popular too! I know, only the ignorant can use the Hitler parallel when trying to justify teh war in IRAQ, although it didn't apply in the slightest.

Hannity is popular and he is a little troll that obviously spreads sht because it sells to his vulnerable flock. Doesn't matter that it doesn't pass the smell test, because his followers already are used to his stench. They are the receivers, the sewage treatment plant if you will.

Can we name a sewage treatment plant after Sarah and these trolls?? They are really incredibly stenchful, and low low low.

Steven King (the scary one in Congress, not the one who writes novels):

“They will leave us if we go wobbly,” he said. “I am worried about that, but that’s why I think it’s got to be a blood oath.”

Maybe King can borrow Christine O'Donnell's Satanic alter to perform their interesting rituals.

I'm guessing it is more of a blood alcohol test than an actual oath. Just my gut reaction,...

PS. LOVED the new HBO series last night speaking of alcohol (Boardwalk Empire). Something tells me this Tea Party gang would be A-OK with prohibition. Especially if it they can abolish the booze and the intellectualism,...

Being an Iowan, Rep Steve King is an embarrassment to most of us except those in his very conservative, TP district. He gets whackier by the day--a blood oath?

Pat- Boston, MA

You can chalk that up the resident idiot in western Iowa. This guy is truly afraid of his own shadow, and definately afraid of becoming a minority in the years to come.

The guy is a complete embarrassment to the state and the sad part is people believe this idiot and vote for him. You might remember him claiming that terrorists will be dancing in the streets if then Sen Obama was elected president.

lol, just think it is only a little over a month until the Dems, lose control of congress, and we start the process of repealing the forced health care plan, unless the courts toss it out first.

Good luck at that, without a veto-proof majority in the Senate. But while we're on that topic, what is it about preexisting conditions clauses that you find so attractive? How excited are you at the prospect that insurance companies could once again rescind your coverage for clerical errors after you get sick, just keeping your premium payments? Is reinstating the Medicare prescription drug donut hole high on your priority list?

As an independent I had a choice before in whether to vote for a Democrat (which generally were spineless to me), or a moderate republican (Who had their own issues, baggage). Now I have no choice. I will never vote for any of these right wing freaks. This country is not to be stained or embarrassed by this. The GOP has lost itself and are catering to a groups of vulnerable people who have been trained by freak shows.

It is so disgusting that this country has been so degraded that these roaches have the opportunity to flourish, and there are people on these boards that support it, and cannot even debate. They are little mouthpieces, programmed to respond with the same 4 year old defenses. It is really sad sitting here having to write this. Frankusa, shameful for supporting it. Joanna1, OMG, not even a single debatable thought. All just more frightened little people looking for leaders that they can look up to, and they found a message that they can understand. Unfortunately, the message is made for tehm to understand, because they are made to order. They do not have the capability to question, or reason, they can only follow, and spout.

Sorry, but that is really the sad state of this country. The GOP is dead, the Democrats can't get their sht together and fight and smash these up and coming losers. Is is so frustrating because for the most part these people would be laughed at.. But you have news organizations that have become propaganda machines. Very sad indeed...