Nice post to end a weird and very disturbing week in America.

November is coming.

It is amazing to look at what the Republican/Tea Party have done to this country and what they want to do again. Just in the last 20 months the Republican/Tea Party has:

Virtually blocked every Bill that has anything to do with creating Jobs, Tax Cuts for the real Small Businesses (not the Bechtel, Chicago Tribune, Fortune 100, Hedge Fund companies etc.), against providing much needed business capital for Small Businesses

They have opposed unemployment extensions and Food Stamps calling the unemployed and less fortunate Hobos, lazy, Freeloaders etc. As posted on ThinkProgress yesterday,

Food Stamps do help the economy. ThinkProgress 10.07.2010

“Money from the program — officially known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program — percolates quickly through the economy. The U.S. Department of Agriculture calculates that for every $5 of food-stamp spending, there is $9.20 of total economic activity, as grocers and farmers pay their employees and suppliers, who in turn shop and pay their bills”.

“While other stimulus money has been slow to circulate, the food-stamp boost is almost immediate, with 80% of the benefits being redeemed within two weeks of receipt and 97% within a month, the USDA says”.

Blocked Health Benefits to the 9/11 First Responders

Blocked the Disclosure Bill to hide the facts of who is providing them with all this money (including Foreign Nationals now)

Blocked the American Jobs Bill so they can continue to farm good paying jobs overseas to the US Chamber of Commerce affiliates, paying them first.

Blocked the extension for the ARRA Bill the day the republicans left for their pre-election campaigns

Blocked the National Defense Bill, and opposed HCR and Financial Reform and threaten to filibuster the Infrastructure Bill when presented.

And the list goes on and on, way too many to list here today, there are 420 Bills in the Senate that 41 Republicans are holding hostage for their own Greed and Power. This is the real “Pledge to America” more of the same failed agenda from the previous administration.

And, this does not include the previous administration that gave us two unfunded wars, two unfunded Tax Cuts and an unfunded Prescription Drug plan. These have created record deficits, increased the economic divide to new records, and record National Debt. We are still paying for these today and our kids will be paying for them as well.

The Republicans want to repeal, privatize or cut back on Social Security, Medicare and Veterans Medical Benefits , they want to re-write the constitution, lower regulations for Wall Street and Big Business while 60% of the people want more regulations not less. They want to repeal current passed legislation or if that does not work, try to deny funding for them like they just did on the ARRA extension.

This week we have also seen reports that the US Chamber of Commerce is suspected of using Foreign Donations to fund Republican Campaigns. I guess they were not satisfied with just borrowing money from China now they want to give them voting rights in US Politics. Who are these people representing? Chinese Chamber of Commerce, UAR Chamber of Commerce, certainly not the United States. Over 8,000 attack ads as of September all against Democrats.

Quality, it does matter; well said, Ron, and US Navy.

Over 400 pieces of legislation passed by the House languish in the Senate because a single republican has anonymously placed a hold on it or the Senate GOP blockade votes NO for cloture to move it to the floor. Quality in Congress is something lacking these days. Otherwise reasonable and moderate Republicans like Snowe, Collins, Hatch, Corker, Graham to name a few who would normally be voting Yes, are scared that they will be the next Tea Party victim.

Food stamps and unemployment benefits are the two biggest bangs for the buck because people spend every dime of it. Tax cuts for the rich costs the taxpayers money because they simply save most of it.

Ron Indiana

When I look at the qualities of Sharron Angle, Rand Paul, Christine O’Donnell, and the many other Tea Party candidates, I have to wonder: Why would anyone vote for a Republican?

I agree those candidates posses the most irrational position in the universe. What's more, they will not grant interviews so the American public will at least have something to chew on.

I'm wondering if this "cone of silence" has anything to do with the "BIG LIE"?

That’d be many foreign investment firms that have been sending funds to the Chamber. The funds are deposited in the same 501(c)(6) account that the Chamber is using to run an unprecedented $75 million dollar attack campaign, mostly against Democrats. That is same as doing a hit job on Democratics. Could it be because those shrills in the GOP/TP party are mouthpieces for multinational corporations who ultimately have American jobs outsourced to their countries.

Or is it the GOP/TP shrills are really to dumb to know?

I think these extreme partisans should answer why outside multinational corporations are not exposed in the GOP/TB party as having sent funds to the American Chamber of Commerce. The funds are deposited in the same 501(c)(6) account that the Chamber is using to run an unprecedented $75 million dollar attack campaign, mostly against Democrats

To answer your question, Ron, people are voting Republican because the Democrats have failed.

The spent billions, and the economy has not improved. The only thing stimulated by all that spending has been the deficit, which is at unsustainable levels.

The Democrats fail to recognize the dangers facing this country from terrorists, who are not common thieves. They fail to recognize the threat from a nuclear Iran. They fail to understand that losing in Afghanistan would be a blow from which we may not ever recover- and that basing war policy on keeping your party intact is not just wrong, but beneath contempt.

Democrats have failed to enact tax policy that would provide surety to the marketplace.

Democrats have failed to listen to their constituents, preferring to bow before the ego of a president who has no concept of any reality other than what he believes exists. Our Founders foresaw just such situations, which is why mid-term elections exist. In this country, when you IMPOSE legislation without the consent of the governed, you pay the price at the polls.

Democrats have certainly failed to raise the tone, in D.C., or anywhere else. From a candidate calling his opponent Taliban, to an Ohio leader attempting to raise money on his use of a vulgarity to describe a group of voters, to Jerry Brown's use of a disgusting term to describe his opponent, gutter language has become the norm for a party clearly in desperate straits. It is, however, unacceptable.

Democrats are failing in their use of straw men, as well. While it may be true that the economy trumps the vilification of people like the Koch brothers, or ephemeral "foreign" donors, I believe that it is just as likely that the electorate has grown weary of Obama's constant use of them. He has raised the specter of such boogeymen as pediatricians removing healthy tonsils because it pays more, to doctors removing healthy limbs because it paid more.

Democrats attack businesses, and then wonder why they do not hire. They are now reduced to scolding, shaming, and ridiculing their donors for not donating,and their base for lack of support.

The only reason to vote Democrat is to continue the destructive policies of this administration. Not too many people are willing to hoist that banner. Democrats had a choice, to buck either their president, or their constituents. At every opportunity, they made the wrong choice. Now, they face the consequences.

If Glen Becks camp followers of Knuckle Draggers and Swamp People take over this Country we have no one to blame but ourselves. We must come together and get out to vote. The alternative is frightening.

Bev:

Excellent point! Republicans don't seem to care that money from other countries is being laundered through the Chamber of Commerce and doled out to various campaigns. If the money helps them win; they just don't seem to care.

I guess you forgot about the MILLIONS that BHO received from BP. So they could get their exemptions.

Or the campaign donations that were not disclosed from other Foreign sources. ha ha

Reality check...with less than three weeks to go:

"Just because the dynamics and circumstances behind this election are not the same as 1994 does not mean the outcome won't be the same. More than a few longtime observers who saw 1994 up close and personal are watching now. They will tell you that this one is every bit as bad for the Democrats, and quite possibly worse."

-Charlie Cook, today, nationaljournal.com-

I just wish the posters on this site would tell the entire story of an issue, instead of the talking points of one party or the other.

There may be individual Republicans that want to privatize Social Security, but anyone with half a brain in their head know that, that will never happen. The plateform of the Republican Party regarding Social Security is:

Allow younger people to make a VOLUNTARY decision to put a PORTION of their contribution in a private account. They will not be allowed to put the entire contribution into a private account. NO ONE is going TO FORCE anyone to do anything. It certainly isn't going to impact current receipients of Social Security

AC, what is you source to back you assertions about the MILLIONS your President received from BP? Back up what you say like the investagation has FACTS to back the story about the selling of America by the US Chamber of Commerce.

Janet:

Perhaps you forgot that Bush 43 spent 6 months of his Presidency trying to sell the notion of privitizing Social Security. Americans didn't buy it 8 years ago and the Baby-Boomers of today are saying, "Keep your hands off my social security. You are right, privitizing social security will never happen. But it is more than a talking point in conservative circles. We both know that.

And the republican candidate from Oregon Rachael interviewed last night said that vary thing Ron, as long as he wins he doesn't care who's funding him.

BTW: no joe all blow, do you not realize that you will have to live in the same country as the rest of us if the republicans win. Do you honestly think just be cause the republicans take control of our country you'll be better off then the Democrats? Do you honestly think that corporation running our country is going to be good for you? What will you say when the big corporation tell you their going to cut your wages in half or cut your benefits like vacation, hollidays, insurance or you have to work 6 days a week for a fixed wage? Will you still think it's a good thing that they run the country? You do know that once they get control of our country there is no turning back. So go ahead and keep cheer leading for the big corporations to take control if that's really what you think you want.

no joe, no bo, nj - After seeing the previous posts to yours listing in detail the GOP's constant effort to block actions dealing with many of the complaints you listed, it certainly seems you could just about replace every reference to"Democrats" with "Republicans."

Moreover, when you characterized the President, you really made a mistake. He was ELECTED on a platform to pursue the policies he has pursued - that's "listening to your constituents." The fact that a die-hard minority of regressives in the Tea Party movement, the militia movement and the libertarian wing of the GOP disagreed does not mean the President didn't listen to those who voted him into office. And your gratuitous insults about the man are clearly not borne out by his performance or personal behavior. Don't you wish you could have said the same about the incompetent George W. Bush and his band of boodling warmongers?

As for Obama's performance in respect to the threats of terrorism, so far the record is very good. You brought up the "boogeyman" - this is one of your own creation in hopes of creating more fear rather than reasoned and understanding response to how the President has performed.

And by the way, Jerry Brown was not the person who used the word "whore" for Meg Whitman. According to the news reports, someone closely associated with the campaign did say it - and it was in reference to her performing that way in trying to cut secret cynical deals with the police unions while she hypocritically made public statements to the opposite. I'd say the term was pretty accurate.

No points for you.

John A:

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. Your rebuttal is far better than anything I could have said.

BTW: I have read your past posts and really like what you have to say. Keep writing those words of wisdom.

John - I was one of those people that voted for Obama and he certainly isn't doing what I voted for. Based on polling of independents, I think it's safe to say most independents that voted for him are also disappointed and we did not think this would be the platform he would pursue. Call us nieve or clueless or whatever, but there was definitely a disconnect at some point.

Indeed, Ron. It IS a mystery. Great post. And good morning. ;)

Anna Molly:

I'm not sure which Ron you are referring to, but good to see you on FT this Friday morning.

John A.;

Nice to see you here again. Touche', great post. I could not have expressed it better.

Just more elitist posts of how stupid Americans are and how brilliant the left in this country is. But these are many of the same people who were so brilliant to elect Obama two years ago. But maybe these people thought and were sold that Obama was going to be far more centerist than he has been. People thought he would try to reform Health Care and not try to nationalize the industry. He wouldn't try to take over the auto industry. He wouldn't push a stimulus bill which was a bail out of government union workers and special interests which did very little over the average American and small business. The question is not whether the American people have under estimated Obama, but whether Obama and the left have under estimated the American people. We will find out which is true on November 2nd.

Ron-1861300 - I'd be interested to know, then, just what did influence your vote for Obama? He really did make a point, consistently, during the campaign to pursue the platform he's worked on since getting into office. I will observe that the economic collapse he was handed to deal with came on very late during the general campaign, and some of its dimensions grew after the election - but Obama stepped up immediately, months before assuming office, and began working of his first initiatives. He made public his concerns and inclinations, and did adjust his direction after listening to members of Congress and the public.

But many people who voted for Obama were also considering their alternative choices. My sister, for example is a moderate-conservative Republican, who grew so disenchanted with the McCain-Palin team that she voted Democratic, knowing full well she was not too much a fan of the platform.

John A. Enjoyed your post and agree with everything in it; great job.

No Joe and others never tire of insulting President Obama almost daily, it makes them feel the world is flat not round as the rest of us know.

@Ron - Indiana ~ I was referring to the Ron who posted the original comment. So many Rons, so little time. -- LoL

@Bag Boy ~ Thanks for the reality check. I always come to you for reality, and I'm never disappointed.

Ron - I don't consider you clueless at all. Impatient - yes - but who can blame you or anyone else for wanting things that make this a stronger, better place to thrive. I think it's unfair to expect immediate change, and yes, 24 months is immediate. Candidate Obama told us it would be slow. He told us it would be painful. He was so right. But this is a big, wonderful country. I'm willing to wait for some of the most important changes I'll see in my lifetime. I hope you and others will continue to support this administration. The thought of turning backwards and handing things over to the (R) crowd saddens and scares me.

Ron,

Would you please get out the dictionary and look up the word Voluntary?

How long can the President blame the last president for the problems that we have today. Granted President Bush did a very bad job but that should not be what President Obama uses as an EXCUSE for not taking appropriate action. It is NOT the last guy’s fault that the new guy CAN NOT act today and I think that most Americans will agree.

@Ray W ~ If elections were only about what is "true," then we never would have suffered eight years under George W. Bush. Republicans may win back the House, and even the Senate, this November, but they have no claim whatsoever to the "truth."

I'll take leftist elitism over right wing ignorance any six days of the week and twice on Sundays. An elitist wearing English Leather is better than a brute wearing Brut. If you know what I mean. And I'm sure you don't because I'm one of those elitist intellectuals, and you're evidently not.

In response to several comments, I must say that it remains a myth that Obama bailed out the auto industry because he was "owned" by unions, that the Stimulus Program was another such "gift" to unions, or that his efforts have produced nothing but higher defecits.

One part of the Stimulus Program, as recently reported, - just ONE small segment - produced 260,000 private industry jobs. Half were for young people over the Summer, while the others encourage private employers to retain workers, hire new ones, and launch innovative programs. Unfortunately, it appears that particular program element has been allowed to expire despite the President's request for C ongress to renew it, and it is possible that many of those 130,000 good jobs will be lost, with dire consequences in many communities.

People who ideologically think the auto industry in the U.S. should have been left to survive or fail on its own according to market influences would have wished not only this country but also the rest of the world into a more extensive crisis well worse than the Great Depression. As it was, Chrysler and GM sharply cut down their operations, renegotiated labor contracts, and applied themselves to the kind of product development they had blithely ignored for far too long. And at the same time they continued to buy supplies, parts, steel, other manufacturing materials, machine tools, and all the other elements they needed - thus keeping alive businesses large and small across the nation. That's not a "gift" to unions, it's a practical and wise decision to defend the very nation.

Yes, in some Stimulus Program projects, various jurisdictions allowed only unionized firms to participate. It was not mandated by the Obama Administration. It was an aspect of "prevailing wage" requirements. Furthermore, few of those kinds of projects were financed by the Stimulus Program - most were various public works and infrastructure repair or development around the country untouched by work-gloved union hands.

The President and those in Congress who joined with him saw a nation drowning in economic troubles. They discarded ideology and pursued practical efforts to stop the crisis from spreading, save at least those they could from complete ruin, and aid in reviving the nation's long-damaged economic engine.

If anyone's ideology leads them to believe that it is not government's role to help keep the country from total collapse, then please find a time machine and go back to 1930, you'd just LOVE Hoover.

I see it is the same ole' thing in here.

One liberal says something and the rest of the peanut gallery cheers.

You guys assume that because you get an applause from the same people over and over, what you say is gospel. You're just preaching to the choir because the rest of the congregation has fell asleep.

Janet:

I have a pretty good idea of the meaning of voluntary. But in light of the stock market tumbling, people losing their 401-K retirement savings...no one is volunteering. Unless you are one of the 1% wealthy people, most are considering their Social Security and one leg of their retirement stool. Another leg is their personal investimets. Like you said, privitizing Social Security isn't going to happen and even conservatives know it's not going to happen.

The answer to your question, "Why would anyone vote for a Republican", is: Charlie Rangel, Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Ried, Jo Biden, "Joe Cool" Obama, Michelle Obama's $400 purple tennis shoes and her vacation in Spain when she could have spread that wealth right here where it is so badly needed.

IntheMiddle- I think indy ron, us vet, jody and ctownbev etc are really the authors of the story. They write the story and have the first 5 or 10 comments ready to to go when the story is posted. It's the same early {lib} posters every time. I usually skip the first few pages and go back where people stsrt making sense. Sorry feisty redhead haven't seen you post yet and almost forgot about you.

John A says:

Moreover, when you characterized the President, you really made a mistake. He was ELECTED on a platform to pursue the policies he has pursued - that's "listening to your constituents." The fact that a die-hard minority of regressives in the Tea Party movement, the militia movement and the libertarian wing of the GOP disagreed does not mean the President didn't listen to those who voted him into office.

The president was very vague in his campaign about what "Hope and Change" alluded to. Most people put in their minds the change they wanted to see and Obama didn't specify his intentions. If he had been specific, he would have never been elected. Clearly his actions since he was sworn in have been detrimental to freedom and capitalism. Larger government and more government control does take away freedom. The Torrie plan is to increment socialism in little bites. It happens over time in such small ways that it seems invisible. When accumulated, socialism takes over. This is the goal of progressives... to have total government control because the guy on the street doesn't know how to live his life and needs to be controlled.

Unfortunately, liberals and progressives don't care about freedom. They would rather have the government do everything and take care of them. When the government controls everything, they can also tell you what to do, eat, where to live and the list goes on and on. They mandate what you can believe, how to believe it and if you don't, you pay the price... up to and including losing your life. (I.E. Russian communism, China communism, Cuba, Venezuela and all other dictatorships across the globe)

Most liberals/progressives will argue my voice is that of extremism. They are convinced that this won't happen here. Well my reply is... ask those who were once free in Russia if they thought it would happen to them before the communist take over... and I have friends that used to live in Venezuela that will never go back that lived there while the people were free.

Obama is an extreme progressive and he plans on taking us down the Torrie path... as demonstrated by all of his actions to date.

Why progressives/liberals want to see our freedom diminished is a mystery to me. Especially since they can't see it themselves nor want to see it.

Tony-2385873, the President, et. al, have to keep reminding a certain portion of the public how we got into this mess because the Republicans keep blocking his initiatives and try to sell their same, old stuff that got us here in the first place. Conservatives keep banging away at more tax cuts for the richest, and some folkes still want to subsidize them.

As I continue to consider my sole lonely vote, I continue to ask myself, what do the Democrats stand for, and how are they going to pay for it? I see Republicans supporting a balanced budget, that hits home for me.

I don't see that from our Democrat candidates, which is what I am looking for. Everything else that has nothing to do with our economy I ignore. For me, it is 100% the economy baby, and jobs, jobs, jobs. Here in the US, and decent paying.

On top of that I see a lot of campaigning on the topic of scare, a tactit used here a lot. And very little campaigning on accomplishments, or things enacted that will lead an accomplished direction.

I am amazed at the spins going on today. Navy, are you Chuckie Todd in drag, for you do sound like an MSNBC cheerleader.

The jobs market isn't what is reported if you look at the U-6. Food stamps as an economy booster? Jobs create a robust economy!

You can spin this all you want to, but the results are clear, this administration spent more time on a failed HC program during year one than addressing the main problem in the nation - job creation.

Hopefully during the mid-terms sanity can be restored in the new legislation session. then perhaps we can use logic to restore jobs to America.

Brianb-999431, we liberals care about freedom as much as you do. We believe that the government that Jefferson envisioned (the We the People-type of government) can, along with other American institutions, improve our way of life. We don't believe that the very wealthiest should be allowed to make their own rules, thereby wasting resources available to you and me. We never liked communism, facism, or corporitism, for all the same reasons, because they all concentrate power in the hands of a few. You should be wary of how government programs can be used for greed and not good, but limiting government just to protect the most powerful is where conservatism has gone in this country, and done so under the guise of Tea Party angst and populism. Many social programs like Medicare have worked. Trying to extend healthcare access is not Big Brother. Denying services goes further to control a vulnerable populace than anything else, and actually reduce freedom (read: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness). This I believe is what we stand for. I don't think it's too complicated. Good Luck.

Obama's approval rating in the latest NBC/WSJ poll (46%) is just three points lower than George W. Bush's in the survey right before he won a second term (49%).

Translation: obama has dropped three points lower in one-half of his term than "W" did in a full term. This, despite all of the failings of "W", all of the blame laid on the previous administration and the record high poll numbers at the start of his term, obama is ONLY three points (6.5%) lower.

Couldn't a more positive spin be put on the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of his leadership? I'm just wondering if this precipitous plummet is indicative of the rest of his term or if he is trying to achieve a rating as low as congress so they won't feel so alienated?

Nice to see the trolls playing their collapse game - you all must be so PROUD!

Can't back up you're bullsh!t so suppress those who post FACTS! What a bunch on pathetic losers! lol

What you idiots haven't figured out yet is when you COLLAPSE something it ONLY runs up the vote total for the author!

Let's see shall we... When you took down Ron's post he had 34 votes... check back in an hour or two and see where it goes from here!

Typical right wing tactics of always either shooting off your mouth or shooting yourself in the foot! lmao

Hey Tom, CA - Welcome to the 'COC' Club! Here's your offical membership card!

And Ace... it would make sense for you to go to page 3 or 4... by then it's a FULLBLOWN HaterPalooza - which seems you would fit right into rather comfortably! Misery does in FACT love company!

Feisty: Thanks for the comments! Looks like the conservatives just can't stand the truth.

Fiesty,

I too get a little tired of the collapsing. Almost an indication of the I'm right and You're wrong politics. Although I would have preferred to have read your post without the hate sewed through out.

And for some of us, we can only post ideas because it is very hard to find facts that point to either the left's or right's ideology actually working.

Anytime Ron & you're welcome!

This is pure bullsh!t that First Read is allowing the inmates to run the asylum!

On the otherhand I am sooo lmao that their little plan BLEW up in their faces 4 more votes and counting! ;0)))

mpipich - Maybe from your point of view, you do care about freedom. There is a huge segment of liberalism/progressivism that does not. Sometimes generalizations can't include the few on the outer edges.

Is Conservatism perfect? Not completely. Are there conservatives out there that give it a bad name - of course there are. Extreme conservatism is just as bad as extreme liberalism. I would consider myself a middle of the road conservative that is not blinded by the extreme right. I definitely see through liberalism though.

The Tea Party is a good thing for this country. It has awakened people to the direction the goverment is taking us. What is wrong with people standing up against what they don't believe in? Railing against this group is nothing short of trying to limit free speech. They have the right to express their views no matter how much liberals, and yourself disagree with them. I don't see anything they are doing as wrong... I do know the liberals are afraid of them... and for what purpose? Because they stand up against progressivism.

You say that conservatives protect the most powerful... How is that true? you show me one liberal democrat politician that's not powerful in his own right. Show me one liberal democrat politician that's not either uber-rich or rich. I'll bring to mind Kerry, Kennedy, Byrd, Obama... all of them... both rich and powerful.

Medicare is failing - it will soon be a huge financial burden on our economy.. and Social Security is doomed to run bankrupt.

Extending government controlled healthcare is nothing short of Big Brother.

Why do liberals think social programs are owed to them by the government? Why am I forced to pay for those who are not willing to work, or contribute to society... IE - Welfare recipients that sit on their porches all day long drinking sodas, beer or a variety of other things... including drugs. I contribute to charity... the government then taxes me to provide for those that won't take care of themselves... how is that fair? I don't agree with giving able bodied people a free pass just because they can beat the system. How complicated is that?

Cdahl - I am sorry if you misconstrued my anger as hatred... truth is I am angry and I will tell you exactly why...

You have the likes of a Fred Phelps arguing for his freedom of speech to taunt and spew REAL hatred at the families of fallen soldiers before the SCOTUS and yet First Read allows a handful of people who obviously cannot handle the truth to suppress the thoughts of people who take the time to post here!

BTW - In case I haven't mentioned it... I have been enjoying your exchange with the progressives on the board!

Fiesty - I am conservative and I am angry at Fred Phelps for what he does and what he's trying to defend. Sometimes anger does not fall along ideological sides. Am I for freedom of speech? Most definitely... do I think it's criminal to do what he does? Again most definitely. To me that's not a matter of freedom of speech because it's an outright display of disrespect. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can yell "fire" in a packed theater. This is what he is doing.

I also agree with you on collapsing posts. I wish they'd take that option off the Vine. I have yet to use it and particularly hate it when someone's viewpoint is minimalized.

Man, I'm getting sick of seeing collapsed posts. If you don't like 'em, don't read 'em.

Now, in answer to the question, is D.C. underestimating Obama? I hope to tell ya. Just about everyone underestimates Obama.

Go back to his campaign and look at a couple of incredibly important facts. He and his staff raised more money than any other candidate in history. He and his tacticians were correct in their assessment of the electorate in virtually every particular - right down to and including his margins of victory and where he would win. That's extremely impressive particularly given the fact that he was a mere COMMUNITY ORGANIZER.

This tag - community organizer - that is virtually spat from the mouths of right-wingers betrays an incredible lack of understanding of how difficult it is to organize a community. That is not particularly surprising given the lockstep mentality of the right, but even the left really doesn't get it. This speaks to incredible managerial talent.

We are constantly reminded that the President never ran or managed a business. So effing what! This guy can manage, and if more people understood the complexity of moving legislation and massaging the egos and power-trippers in Congress, his managerial prowess would be far better appreciated.

Does he get everything he wants? Hell, no. He is the first President - and virtually all of them have talked about it for a century - to actually move the bought-and-sold congress on health care reform. NO ONE else has been able to do it. That feat alone - although not what all of us wanted - is the open door. The President cracked the insurance industry's vault of shame.

His detractors - and outright haters - and sadly, his tepid supporters seem to think D.C. is all about black and white solutions. Just how tough is it? Well, every time a Republican is asked to lay out a solution they run away like a cat with its tail on fire. No one, but no one, has pinned the masters of evasion like Boehner, Cantor, or Pence down. But let the President offer a solution and all hell breaks loose.

I know up close and personal, I know from past experience with these people, the only thing they know is how to tear something down. They don't hesitate for one second to tell you something won't work, but they sure as hell can't tell you what will work.

I want more from Obama, not the least of which is an honest approach to the failed educational system in this country and I want public financing of elections.

If - and this is a big IF - voters who understand the danger of the totalitarian right get off their fannies and vote, we can move ahead the next two years. If they sit home, we will have to wait another two years while the Republicans bring America to a halt. Do remember, the last time the Repubs put a contract on America, they shut down the government.

The sad fact is, time really is of the essence. We don't have two years to waste. I wish I could enthusiastically and unequivocally urge people to vote for Democrats because they're just so darned great. I can't. Far too many of them are gutless wonders whose only concern is re-election. However, the Republicans are flatly dangerous. This isn't about the lesser of two evils. The Republicans are SO evil, they actually make the Dems look good.

First Read, wake up. What happened to this thread illustrates PRECISELY what I said below about allowing the commenters to run this blog.

What's happening here has nothing to do with "community." Nor does it have to do with the purposes for running a political blog in the first place. It's completely about suppressing opinions that people don't agree with, no matter how civilly they're expressed, and ultimately it's about trying to deny other points of view access to a public forum.

You may think you've made this blog more like Daily Kos, but that's exactly what's wrong with Daily Kos, too.

Thanks Brianb - what do you know... miracles can happen because for once I am 100% in agreement with a conservative!

Nice to see that with so many things that divide us Fred Phelps is not one of them! ;0)

fiesty,

As long as you brought up Fred Phelps.....

Isn't it appalling that as a society we actually have to look at the freedom of speech laws and whether or not they apply to this character? Because if idiots like this dude we actually may have to reign in or redefine freedom of speech somewhat to protect the innocent from the absurd.

Just another example of a couple of bozo's ruining a good thing for the rest of us.

And I really enjoy the progressives on this forum. While we disagree at times on the route to economic recovery, one has to admit that the left here has a strong love for this country, the citizens as a populace and the ability for all of us as a group to take care of each other.

I am all for the passion here in standing up for what one truly believes in so long as it doesn't hurt others in they way that Phelps does.

And if I am going to hate anything here, it is the collapsing of the posts. It shouldn't be allowed in the first place. I feel it takes away a voice because of a viewpoint that is each and every one of our rights to have. Furthermore, if I or anyone else posts something insane, it actually helps secure that opposite viewpoint by showcasing what a dumb-dumb so and so is. Kind of like what you pointed out in 1.39. Enjoy the rest of the day!

Anna Molly:

My bad for not realizing you were talking to me. Yes, it is a mystery why anyone would vote Republican.

As far as this collapsing thing. I am amazed at how many peek on the thread and respond as if it is still up.

Republicans haven't figured out that they have the option to skip over something they do not like. It's the conservative thing to destroy anything they do not like. It's the progressive thing to make something work better.

cdahl -- thanks for the response & kind words!

As far as Phelps goes... I think that if what he does, doesn't qualify as hate speech then I'm not sure what the true definition would be!

Equally appalling is the children that are being exposed to that environment!

Like I said earlier - I TRULY have enjoyed reading what you have to say. The one thing that stands out is you come across as an employer WHO actually cares about their employee... and sadly... that is a rare breed these days!

Sorry about my rant earlier - when you've been doing this as long as I have there are days where my patience runs 'thin' and I can't contain the 'feisty'! lol

Unfortunately today was one of those days!

Enjoy your weekend and I look forward to seeing you around! :0)

I think *almost* EVERYBODY is underestimating President Obama. He does have a plan, and he is slowly but surely implementing it. I think many would be surprised by it if it weren't continually blocked and under-rated. But because he has to move slowly with his plan, too many think he is doing nothing. That could be their downfall.

Vote Dem in Nov. because the President has a plan, Repubs have NOTHING to show.

@ Ron, Indiana ~ Liberals need to realize it too, Ron. As I've said before, when liberals become the censors, the wheels have come off. Have a great weekend. ;)

Let's underestmate Obama. No one ever heard of him, he had no experience, had no clue. so let's vote him into the highest possision in the world. Yes, he is the man, with no experience, no clue, no friends, and the dumbest of the dumbest elect him. Nothing like the dumb leading the dumb.

The left says they want proven leaders and vote for an unknown. Now they want to keep the experinced, but have none to vote for. They want what isn't in existence, but will vote for the trash that is left because they want a free ride at the expense of others.

All anyone can ask is for leftists to get off their collective ass and do somthing other than whine about how they are to lazy to do for themselves and America. You voted for an idiot. Reap what you sowed.

All anyone can ask is for leftists to get off their collective ass and do somthing other than whine about how they are to lazy to do for themselves and America. You voted for an idiot. Reap what you sowed.

WOW, Bob, that is an interesting observation you have come up with. You've stated that the electorate voted for an idiot.

OK, I'll play along.

Fortunately for us, that 'idiot' you reference has more legislative achievements in 20 months than George Bush had in 8 years.

That 'idiot' you reference has managed to save the world economy from sure disaster because of irresponsibility over the last 8 years.

That 'idiot' you reference has preserved the American way of life from the irresponsibility and callous disregard of Main Street by Wall Street.

That 'idiot' you reference has provided a stimulus that America badly needed, especially when it comes to American Infrastructure.

Because of that 'idiot', you can come on here and spew your hatred and vitroil unfettered and without reprisal and fear or censorship.

Seems to me like that 'idiot' truly loves America and is doing what he can to preserve it.

I think I will continue to support that 'idiot' you sneer at. It seems to me that he is doing more for America NOW than we have seen in the past 8 years.

To answer your question, Ron, people are voting Republican because the Democrats have failed.

And the Republicans have succeded? I suggest that it taking a lot of time to undo the damage of Republican mimanagement and that the public is just impatient. I suggest that the public needs to give the Dems a little more time. Change doesn't happen overnight.

The Clinton Administration is what started the whole housing problem and the current administration wants to through money at everything and put everyone on the government dime. There is a method to their madness. You can blame it on the Republicans all you want, but you need to read up a little and find out when it all began. The CRA with Carter and bank mandates with Clinton. Obama is just spending mounds of money and calling names. Do a little homework before you mouth off.

I have to say, intelligence matters too. Obama has displayed very little of this precious substance. He certainly has good handlers. They are now unable to keep his lack of substance a secret.

Pietro, Columbus, Ohio

"WOW, Bob, that is an interesting observation you have come up with. You've stated that the electorate voted for an idiot.

OK, I'll play along.

Fortunately for us, that 'idiot' you reference has more legislative achievements in 20 months than George Bush had in 8 years.

That 'idiot' you reference has managed to save the world economy from sure disaster because of irresponsibility over the last 8 years."

That idiot you voted for had no political experience. The disaster started with Clinton when he signed the law requiring banks to give home loans to people who couldn't afford them.

"That 'idiot' you reference has preserved the American way of life from the irresponsibility and callous disregard of Main Street by Wall Street."

That idiot you voted for spent $800 billion for a stimulous that would keep unemployment under 8% when it was at 7%. That worked so well that the unemployment went to 10%.

"That 'idiot' you reference has provided a stimulus that America badly needed, especially when it comes to American Infrastructure."

I have seen the infrastructure "fixes" in my own state. Most of it went to repaving roads that didn't need repaving, while leaving the ones that really need fixing broken.

The only workers it helped were union employees and most ot them work for the government and produce nothing.

That idiot forced thru a health care bill that will cost $1 trillion while doing nothing to help lower cost and actually increased them, and know one knew what was in it until after the fact. Idiot transparancy.

That idiot along with the leftist idiots in congress increased the debt more in one year than anyone in history, and the second year will be the second highest debt accumulation in history.

So, smart guy, game player, who is going to pay for all of this? The government employees that were stimulated to keep their jobs while producing nothing? The Corporations that still exist that are so over regulated that they won't expand their businesses in America because it isn't cost effective? The 90% of those who are left, 50% of which pay little or no taxes? You? Your children? Your grand children.

Keep voting for idiots. You deserve the fallout.

So, smart guy, game player, who is going to pay for all of this? The government employees that were stimulated to keep their jobs while producing nothing? The Corporations that still exist that are so over regulated that they won't expand their businesses in America because it isn't cost effective? The 90% of those who are left, 50% of which pay little or no taxes? You? Your children? Your grand children.

Bob, I am OK with the disdain you feel for the President. I am OK with the disdain you feel for the Congress. I am OK with the disdain you feel for yourself because you feel you have no way out.

What I am constantly amazed at is that if this President did NOTHING AT ALL, you would STILL have the deficits to deal with, and it greater quantities.

Would you be OK with that?

Or are you upset that the 'idiot' you reference is actually doing something about those deficits?

You worry about 'who is going to pay'. Well, genius, you are ALREADY PAYING for the deficits run up by President Bush. We all are. We are paying because businesses are shipping jobs overseas faster than you can get a happy meal at McDonalds.

With no infrastructure to support this country, what businesses would even WANT to invest in America? Why can't the electorate demand that we support our OWN by 'buying American'? Who is looking out for us - the 'little guy' - that needs to earn a living?

Bob, I do not doubt your sincereity nor passion. I do question your ability to look at the economic situation that we find ourselves in. We were going DOWN as a country and we were bringing the world down with us.

Things are still bad, no doubt. But for you to sit there and be concerned about the 'Corporations' being 'overregulated' is folly best, insanity as worst. The Corporations are well able to take care of themselves. You - and I by extension - are being starved out and only that 'idiot' you reference is doing something to help US as Americans.

THAT's Something to think about.

Jody:

Great thoughts; all woven together into an excellent post. The Sting and jobs: Well done.

It's obvious the Democrats still have on their training wheels for their feeble attempts to create a job. And it took a few trillion dollars for us to find out they don't have a clue about what they are doing.

Libs, are you tired of the lies about the economy coming from Obama, Biden, and Pelosi? All those wonderful jobs they'd produce if only we would allow them to spend more and more money. The Democrats have spent record amounts of money, money added to the debt,. and for what? 95,000 jobs lost and the the job market quickly heading South, that's what. And you Libs have the gall to whine that the Republicans might have gotten slightly in the way of even more wasteful spending by Obama and the Democrats! That takes a lot of guts on your part, a lot guts, and not many brains.

Well JoannaSmith1 - you must be absolutely furious with Christie,NJ this morning as he just killed about 6,000 jobs for his constituants. Talk about training wheels - the sad thing, the repugnants did not learn to ride with them, now they can't ride without them either. So, what say you about the 64,000 private sector jobs gained? I bet those folks are pretty happy about the stimulus this morning and every morning, especially come payday.

Jody - i agree - an excellent post on an issue that all of us should be concerned about. We seem to have an issue where there are forces that are working to keep jobs overseas and NOT create any here. I agree that we need to be vigilant and vote for those who want to help AMERICA and create jobs here.

The status quo is not working for America right now.

By the way - we seem to be infested with some strange, annoying BUZZING from JS1... anyone have any bug spray?

It's hard to escape the conclusion that the powerful, wealthy individuals who provide the financial backbone to the Conservative Movement are desperately selfish and out of shape. They can't see that they're destroying the things that made America great in order to grab more money and power for themselves. They wish to make themselves the ruling elite, but of what? The Conservative agenda has already damaged the middle class so very badly. Is it worth being king of a smoking ruin? Apparently our Conservative aristocracy thinks so.

First person of the day to completely lose it and get suspended! Let's hear it for pat!

and for those who ignored her post...shame on you...

Feisty? Where's the (selective)outrage you showed yesterday?

JoAnna Smith. We liberals are tired of people like you who insist the stimulus did not work when economists and the facts state otherwise. Are you tired of the lies you hear from republicans claiming no jobs were created while handing out stimulus checks and exclaiming how wonderful it is that so many jobs will be created in their districts and state? Prove no jobs were created, find the links and post them. You won't and you can't because the truth is, jobs were created and saved.

Jody, Iowa

Most of the Spring jobs were from temporary Government Census takers.

The latest MSNBC headlines

Economy lost 95,000 jobs last month; private hiring disappoints.

Pietro:

Good morning. The spinners are out early this morning. Still same old talking points. They still will not acknowledge that this economy is a direct result of their failed and mismanaged agenda of the Bush reign. It took them 8 years to nearly bankrupt this country and President Obama is supposed to fix it in 20 months. Even if we had a different President AND a responsible Republican/Tea Party that wanted to help instead of blocking virtually everything that the President proposes we would still be fighting our way out. Just about every leading economist (both republican and democrat) agree that we are moving forward. Slowly, yes - Mostly because of the obstructionism from the Republican/Tea Party people that support Wall Street over Main Street, Big Business over Small Business, the Richest 2% over the 98% and now China, India, Egypt etc. over America.

They caused the majority of the problems we are and our children will be facing for years to come. The are in denial of their role and balme everybody else and then do absolutely nothing to help except throw stones.

They have given us two unfunded wars, one based on hypocrisy and lies and the other total mismanaged. Two unfunded Tax Cuts where over 50% of the benefits went the the richest 2% and an unfunded prescription bill. These programs created record deficits and National Debt that we are still paying for today. He!!, some of their past agenda is still in play today and it has not created any new jobs. So their old agenda is still failing today as we speak.

This is not even including the cutting of regulations that have killed many employees in the name of Greed. Reduced regulations that lead to the collapse of Wall Street, Right Wing Supreme Court that took the voting rights of American people and just sold them to the highest bidder.

Great post, Jody. The Republican attack ads that I see blaming our economy on President Obama are relentless and I'm sad to say some people believe them. Reminder: President Obama didn't create the economic meltdown, the Republicans did, and he has had no help from the Republicans in turning things around.

Posted my opinion and voted to collapse them yesterday Feisty, That you took the time to wrongfully attack me here while you and the rest simply ignored someone you said you disagreed with but respected (REMEMBER?) being called a WHORE is all anyone ever needs to know about how the "community" polices itself. lol

You only see injustice when you are the victim...how progressive...lol

I guess I should leave the getting suspended stuff to an expert like you...how many times have you been suspended for your obnoxious posts? 2, 3? lol

JoannaSmith1

To quote that noted Republican Representative Joe Wilson...

"you lie"

Lets not forget to ask influence did foreign money (specifically Chinese) have during the Clinton administration.

JoannaSmith1 - Pat's post is completely unacceptable. She does not speak for me...and many others on this site. The beauty of democracy and, specifically, freedom of speech is that it allows us to agree to disagree. Insults such as Pat's are immature and lack couth.

@AC Robertson ~ Has it ever occurred to you that the reason private sector hiring is disappointing is that large businesses in particular may be content to wait until AFTER the election, thereby hoping to influence its outcome?

If it hasn't, then ponder that for a bit. There is no other evident reason why hiring has not picked up. The Party of "No" and its agenda extends WAY beyond Congress.

She never fails to disappoint that Feisty!

Struck a nerve AGAIN!...lol...poor Feisty and her widdle (to use one of your terms) rants...Now go and hold your breath and stamp your feet because someone else got the "last word"...lol

You have fallen into self-parody...lol

Thanks for proving you just couldn't resist! lmfao!

What's the matter hon? Couldn't find any of your 'precious' polling data to spin your agenda with today... so you decided to go personal?

3...2...1...

Underestimated him. Thats funny. I think the whole country overestimated him.

Unless they meant about him shoving all of his failed reform down our throat.

Watched hardball last night. I see the left is so scared to talk about their side they started beating up on Palin and the 2012 pres. election. We're not even passed midterm. need to change topics huh.

But only Fox is one sided(ya right).

Anna Molly at 2.16. You implied that businesses may not be hiring in order to impact the election. Did you think they can't make informed decisions since Congress did not determine what was to be done with Bush tax cuts? Had they made a decision, either way, at least businesses could have planned accordingly.

And, some may be waiting to hire because they're waiting on their "waiver" from the health care plan! Odd, haven't seen anybody here be enraged about these waivers. So, unions, Congress, and SOME businesses will be exempt from the mess. Take more people out of the system so that means those of us who will be stuck will have to pay more.

"If that is not the GOP/TP preference, why else would they vote eleven times against democratic legislation to promote job creation here?"

Because all of the of that legislation did was threaten businesses with penalties if they didn't comply. Nothing about reforming trade policies and how the U.S. allows China to run ruffshod over the us.

Jody, good post, however, there is one thing that you did not address - all those special interests that were attached to the bills that the republicans voted against. Perhaps the democrats are coming late to the realization that the American people are not happy with unrestricted spending...the congress has oversight now on Wall Street and on the financial institutions across America, but who is watching Congress?

@dirt ~ I just found out about the waivers and I'm outraged. So there you go. It just illustrates how completely flawed the HCR bill was from the start. It's only about 30 companies now, but I can hardly wait to see how many more companies start asking for similar waivers. Anyone could see this coming; anyone except for Congress and the President, I guess. And they have to give in because otherwise people will start losing coverage in the tens and hundreds of thousands, precisely BECAUSE of the fact that there's no public option available to make these insurance companies honest.

As for businesses not spending, there's planning involved, but not the kind you're talking about. I just spoke with a colleague in my office who happens to be a tax lawyer and watches these things closely; he says that big businesses have the largest reserves of cash that they have had in many years -- maybe ever -- and he agrees that the reason they aren't hiring is probably political because it's not justified by other measures. He agrees with me on this, although he hardly ever does otherwise; coincidentally, he's the one who old me about the waivers because he knew how I would feel about it.

By the way, the fact that Congress didn't take up the tax cut issue BEFORE the election -- you don't think that might have been political, too, now do you? Sort of goes right to my point, doesn't it?

I've arrived. Someone or someones collapsed my comment. Finally got trough to at least 5 Knuckle Draggers and Swamp People. Thanks Teabaggers. LOL

Retired Navy Vet says:

The spinners are out early this morning. Still same old talking points. They still will not acknowledge that this economy is a direct result of their failed and mismanaged agenda of the Bush reign. It took them 8 years to nearly bankrupt this country and President Obama is supposed to fix it in 20 months

Is this the only line you can come up with RNV? Allow me to make some corrections. It wasn't 8 years. The economy was doing just fine until 06. In 06, the democrats took control of the house. The house... where spending occurs. The house... where fiscal policy is set. The house... where democrats controlled every committee. If you want to say during the Bush Administration, that's technically the truth, but who was in control of the treasury? It was the democrats. You are disengenuious when you claim it was republicans, or even Bush.

Obama is not fixing anything. He has no intention of fixing anything. If you think he has those intention, how come it took him over 60 days to react to the oil spill in the Gulf? Please don't allow yourself to be blinded by party loyalty... That is the worst kind of loyalty known to man. Your party will sell you down the road and not think twice about it.

California Tom - I'd rather be a knuckledragger than a liberal pansy... since you are in the mood for namecalling. And... I don't collapse posts... and disagree with those that do.

Rather be the bagger than the bagged!

Yea yeah yeah , except that its Obama sending the jobs to Mexico and China. Nice try though !! Obama approved of the move of a HUGE industrial complex to Mexico, forgot what company it was but its been all over the news. Now we hear that yet another company, this time Caterpillar, is building going to build a HUGE industrail complex in China to build mini scoopers. How does that make you union types feel? Get a clue, youve been sold down the river. I used to be union, i know how they work. They DO NOT have your best interest at heart. My union started bringing illegals on the job, and i started to raise safety concerns, along with my union brothers and sisters. Well, you dont step out of line in the unions. You be a good little sheeple and do your job, or you get canned.

@KSte ~ You should be so lucky.

Rick

you need to look at facts the private sector just shed jobs the other day. Obamas wall street reform hired how many more SEC henchman?

In Los Angeles, each stimulus job cost a cool $1,000,000 each to create.

Obama is just bussing in unemployed union people-- they get paid for a day to show up to see him... just like last weeks little tiny meeting of progressives in DC

Thank you for reporting facts. I watch all the hearings and congress on CSPAN and you are right. By evening out the tax payed by business here which wd be lower by 10% trade wd be expanded and jobs brought back. Also blocked was an infr-structure bank using 50 billion to leverage 300 billion in private sector money to create private jobs. There has been 90 billion used to leverage trillions in private money for clean energy thanks to the stimulus.

Brianb wrote:

Is this the only line you can come up with RNV? Allow me to make some corrections. It wasn't 8 years. The economy was doing just fine until 06. In 06, the democrats took control of the house. The house... where spending occurs. The house... where fiscal policy is set. The house... where democrats controlled every committee. If you want to say during the Bush Administration, that's technically the truth, but who was in control of the treasury? It was the democrats. You are disengenuious when you claim it was republicans, or even Bush.

OK, Brianb, I'll play along.

Using what you've posted above, you stated it was the DEMOCRATS that ran up the deficit. however, you forgot one thing - you need the PRESIDENT to sign the bills into law. The PRESIDENT is the one credited for enacting the bills from the Congress into Law.

So, let's recap -

If the Congress was Democratic in 2006 (and it was by a slim majority - I noticed your didn't care to mention that in your post), and to have a spending bill signed into law it takes the PRESIDENT to do so,

THEN

President Bush is credited with enacting that law that has whatever spending in it.

Now, Brianb, am I wrong about that? Can you prove that I am?

You can try and deflect all you want, but President Bush did NOT have to sign the spending bill if he chose not to. The Democrats did NOT have enough members to override a veto at the time.

So, Brianb, what are you saying? Are you saying that Nancy Pelosi signed the bill to make it law? Maybe Harry Reid signed the bill to make it law?

I love it how Brianb wants to desperately to show it was the Democrats that ran up the deficit when it takes a PRESIDENT to OK the spending with his signature.

The fact of the matter is that many a Democrat was plenty angry with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid because they would NOT stand up to President Bush when he would push through his supplemental bills to finance the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It looks like President Bush couldn't pass up on signing spending bills sent to him. It looks like he owns the credit for spending us into a deficit.

I agree totally and have watched this on CSPAN. I can't believe people believe the uneducated pundits who have no information or bad information even when it is not that hard to get the facts. I have been making posts like yours and am thrilled to see someone else with these details.

This is from the website OpenSecrets.com I don't know if its partisian or not. But according to them this is a list of the top corporate donors since 1989 -2010. You will see that most of these corporations donate predominately to democrats. The first percentage is dem the second is repub. So for those of you that want to lie and convince others that the dems don't take any corporate money here is proof that your claim is incorrect. Notice that Unions are. NOTICE that 11 of 20 contributors are UNIONS. So everyone spouting about corporate involvement in these elections are just a tad off base.

AT&T is about equal. Only UPS and National Auto Dealers Ass. give more to Republicans.

AT&T Inc

$45,650,984

44%

55%

American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees

$42,963,511

98%

1%

ActBlue

$42,601,344

99%

0%

National Assn of Realtors

$36,848,743

48%

51%

Goldman Sachs

$32,750,702

62%

36%

American Assn for Justice

$32,602,779

90%

8%

Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers

$32,573,445

97%

2%

National Education Assn

$30,891,230

93%

6%

Laborers Union

$29,767,300

92%

7%

Teamsters Union

$28,764,784

93%

6%

Service Employees International Union

$28,738,432

95%

3%

Carpenters & Joiners Union

$28,645,308

89%

10%

American Federation of Teachers

$28,042,891

98%

0%

Communications Workers of America

$27,800,156

98%

0%

Citigroup Inc

$27,576,042

50%

49%

American Medical Assn

$26,839,420

39%

60%

United Auto Workers

$26,509,902

98%

0%

Machinists & Aerospace Workers Union

$25,924,777

98%

0%

National Auto Dealers Assn

$25,310,758

32%

67%

United Parcel Service

$24,908,388

36%

62%

Now we hear that yet another company, this time Caterpillar, is building going to build a HUGE industrail complex in China to build mini scoopers.

Not defending unions (don't see much use for them anymore other than providing National union jobs), but Cat is building in China because it is the largest growth market for construction equipment.

Pietro,

So basically what you're saying is that the dems passed the bill that W signed, thus raising the deficit AND the dems passed the bill that Barry signed raising the deficit even more?

What's the common denominator here?

Do I have this correct - the Republicans are against jobs because they voted against the Democarats (who have the majority anywayand have for the past 4 YEARS). Where are the jobs? Your President has been in office two years. There are less jobs than when he took office and his high tax rates are causing companies to go overseas where there are less taxes. Yep - looks like the Republicans fault all right.

Janet - Unions are member organizations that collect 5% or 2/40 Hours a week as dues. Outside of donations from individuals of modest means, these donations are ‘democratically’ based on the idea that individual members (voters) are making a huge commitment to democracy. Those members vote on how these dues will be spent, and elected union officials have to comply. Those opposed to Unions first point out the totals donated by Unions, which are by law required to be published for the record. Thus being forced to disclose donations and show clearly who donates to whom. The donors to ‘conservative’ caused are not required to publish and make available their donations, and can donate anonymously for issue ads. The conservatives cannot stand the fact that Unions are effective fund raisers, or the fact that they are even organized to begin with and will do anything to keep workers from unionizing. Be that what it is, however ‘conservatives’ are really doing is degrading Union members and doing dirty work for decades to force the nation’s laws to adhere to the ‘conservative’s view that Union Members are second class citizens, and not covered by freedom of assembly, freedom of association and are always trying to establish themselves as first class citizens.

This essay is NOT about redeeming the merits of our democracy, as it is, but as it should be. Today Unions and Corporations are by habit and long practice advisories, but that does not excuse the waste of time resulting from constant fighting, and hoping that both will do what needs be done to cooperate.

It drives me crazy to see people blaming corporations for taking jobs overseas. Do you not have even a basic understanding of economics? The American consumer is to blame for driving jobs overseas. Listen, companies react to DEMAND. If demand is for the cheapest price, they will strive to provide the CHEAPEST PRICE. That means they HAVE to go overseas, because if the cheapest product is being made overseas, they have to react to that. If, on the other hand, we as consumers DEMANDED product made in the USA, the Corps would gladly produce them here. The Corps are driven by 2 laws - you gotta make a profit to survive; to make a profit you gotta give the consumer of your product what he or she wants. That's it. It has nothing to do with wanting to move jobs overseas.

Do you not understand that if we, as consumers, would demand American made products instead of cheap foreign crap, the jobs would RETURN to the USA? Why is that so hard to understand? I just don't get this blame the Corp stuff. WE are to blame.

BTW, when's the last time you shopped at WallyWorld? As opposed to the locally owned store downtown? I haven't been in WallyWorld for 12 years.

I have said for some time that many of the corporations supporting and funding the GOP are withholding jobs. They aren't hiring in order to make it appear that the GOP is right about job creation. They are holding mainstreet Americans hostage - keeping many on unemployment and those who have dropped off the program - all in support of their GOP croanies and looking for payback after the election when they think the GOP will win.

So basically what you're saying is that the dems passed the bill that W signed, thus raising the deficit AND the dems passed the bill that Barry signed raising the deficit even more?

Chef Darrell - NO, what I am saying is that no matter WHAT congress passes the bill, the PRESIDENT gets the credit for the bill he signs into law.

Using your logic, then we can say that the Republicans ran up the debt from 2001 thru 2005, couldn't we?

I cannot play dirty like that, though.

The fact of the matter is that the PRESIDENT owns the credit. Like when Social Security was passed - we credit President Johnson, do we not? Do we credit the Congress that passed the bill in the first place?

The answer is NO.

Sorry, Chef, President Bush OWNS all of the credit for ALL of the bills he signed - especially the ones that ran up the debt from 2001 through 2008.

Do you not understand that if we, as consumers, would demand American made products instead of cheap foreign crap, the jobs would RETURN to the USA? Why is that so hard to understand? I just don't get this blame the Corp stuff. WE are to blame.

cele2000 - I COMPLETELY agree with you. You are ABSOLUTELY correct in your assessment.

I have said for some time that many of the corporations supporting and funding the GOP are withholding jobs. They aren't hiring in order to make it appear that the GOP is right about job creation. They are holding mainstreet Americans hostage - keeping many on unemployment and those who have dropped off the program - all in support of their GOP croanies and looking for payback after the election when they think the GOP will win.

meede1 - I had the same feeling and theory, but I do NOT have any proof that is the case. It would not surprise me in the least if that WAS the case.

UNtil I have some proof, I CANNOT state your (and my) suspicion as fact.

hey mixed bag:

Anybody who doesnt believe that the republican party doesnt want to eliminate/privatize SS, medicare etc doesnt know their history or is unaware of what is going on around us. Early in the reagan administration, the "conservatives adopted a strategy called "starve the beast. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10054/1037783-109.stm http://www.dlc.org/print.cfm?contentid=251788.So, Ive posted 2 stories that will tell you all you need to know!

The strategy was to mortgage the government to the hilt with debt in order to create a budget crisis. History shows that over 80% of the current national debt was run up under JUST the last 3 gop presidents!! http://www.lafn.org/gvdc//Natl_Debt_Chart.html http://zfacts.com/p/318.html http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm

Well, they HAVE created a budget crisis thru debt from which we might not recover! NOW, the repubs are talking again about cuts to SS, Medicare etc just as they did when bush wanted to privatize jsut a small part of it! MANY republicans are NOW talking about cutting/privatizing those programs. They figure the best time is now since they have SO MANY Americans bamboozled about what's true and what isnt . There is a HUGE amount of money involved so there will be HUGE amounts of money spent to present their lies. They're quite willing to shut down the government to attain their goals as we shall see if they capture the House!

Rememeber, THIS is the party that brought us the greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression and almost NOBODY knew it was going on. There was a tremendous amount of secrecy as the GOP went about deregulating so many things that brought this near depression on! NOW, we have gullible voters poised to return control of the House to the very party that have caused ALL of the problems we now face, from huge deficits, to huge debt, to a huge recession, high unemployment, a war for oil that killed 5000 brave soldiers for a lie the gop is fighting mightily to give control of this country to the monied interests and leave this country with only 2 classes of people: the haves, and the rest! HAVE WE FORGOTTEN ALL THIS SO SOON????

I hope this has cleared up any misunderstanding about what the goals of the GOP are!! They've had a 30 year strategy to eliminate entitlements!! They deliberately ran up a HUGE debt to make this possible. NOW they want to start the process of dismantling the government programs designed to be a safety net for those who arent well to do! They will do ANYTHING to accomplish that goal! ANYTHING!

Why would voters want to put the fox back in charge of the chicken coop after he's eaten SO MANY chickens?? WHY? Because we've been lied to............ AGAIN!! REMEMEBER THAT ON ELECTION DAY!

Feisty-

Always love your comments.

Can I please ask you a quick question?

How do people (or MSNBC) collapse peoples comments. What happened to freedom of speech and thought? Can anyone just collapse a comment because they disagree with it. How is it done?

Thanks

The republicans don't have any thoughts of their own to post, so all they can do is collapse other posts.

Hope all liberals and conservatives have a good weekend.

Feisty-

Thanks for answering my question. Now that I know the secret I can collapse all the Repug comments. LOL

Tom

FR should remove the collapse icon and leave it solely up to the moderators with STRICT and LIMITED criteria for collapsing comments that are clearly laid out and can be understood by all who post. I agree that it is an insult to the concepts of free expression and thought, as well as FAIR PLAY, that a few individuals who don't agree with you -- on either side -- can come along an collapse your comment for no other reason than that they don't like it.

When we play that game, we have become the thought police.

The has left never collapsed a comment because they didn't agree with it?

If you notice left leaning posts are collapsed overwhelmingly!

Guess reading comprehension is not your strong suit...

That depends on the day and topic from what i've seen. There are plenty of right wing comments that get collasped on msnbc(it is a left new source).

Im not saying alot of posts don't get collapsed for no reason but i've seen it from both sides. Can't all of a sudden cry when it happens to you.

I never vote unless its a direct insult to someone on either side. Im sorry that your comment was collasped because there was no reason for it.

Im not saying alot of posts don't get collapsed for no reason but i've seen it from both sides. Can't all of a sudden cry when it happens to you.

Trust me... I'm not 'crying' about it because it happens to me all the time - I'm USED to it.. lol

Take a look at the board - collapsing of left comments right now are running about 5-1! Then come back and tell me what warranted the collapse of the first post of the morning by Ron, Indiana?

I appreciate the fact that you like many others aren't abusing the system! It will catch up with them eventually!

Thanks for the clarification Tyler! I know in the past you have identified the abusers and revoked their priveledges... it's a shame that a reckless few contribute to your workload!

Agreed about First Read being highly 'spirited' and we appreciate Mark - Domenico & Ali allowing the format to remain the same after the change to incorporate it into Newsvine!

It's one of the things that makes First Read the BEST blog on the web to play the political version of 'The Family Feud'

Have a great weekend - and again THANK you for taking the time to answer our questions!

Tyler... here's a VALID question for you... You had restored my post so how now is it COLLAPSED AGAIN according to the 'rules' you laid out above?

I have faith that you are on this malicious bullsh!t and addressing it?

You MIGHT not like what I have to SAY but you have NO right playing your troll games to collapse a post that in NO way violates the COH!

Joe in Albany: I am so looking forward to all the FR lefty liberal ladies condemning Jerry Brown for calling his opponent a "w****"

Joe - It won't happen. In their twisted minds what Brown's campaign thinks/says about Whitman is a-okay with them. They'll justify it, just like they justify everything else for the liberal agenda. Buying votes to pass health care? Not a problem for the libs. Economy is off the rails and heading for the cliff? Libs tell us that's "Bush's fault". A Liberal Democrat calls his Republican opponent and "w****", not a problem for the Libs, they're used to treating women that way. Look how they treat Fiorina, O'Donnell, Gov. Brewer in AZ, and of course Palin. To the Libs, what the Brown campaign said about Whitman is mild in comparison.

Not a word yet, Joe and Joanna?

Here-Let's see if I can jumpstart the discussion: Last night, I had a dream that Michelle Obama came over and cleaned my house. When she was done, I had her make me some pancakes.

Do you people think it's bad that I cracked a maid joke? Well, some people think it's bad you all are cracking prostitute jokes about Whitman.

I'll say it--tacky on the part of Jerry Brown. There have been a lot worse things said. Every candidate needs to remember that in this day and age--technology captures every off-hand comment made in private and there are those who take advantage of it. That said, this is a nonstory. There are probably equally distasteful comments made by Whitman in private that have yet to surface.

CU, Joanna & Joe - well if the shoe fits Meg should wear it, I'd call her one to her face if I ever met her. A corporate whore is a whore just the same, and Meg is certainly a corporate whore.

Joe in Albany

Whore is a "bad word" depending on the context its used. I'm assuming in this cause Jerry Brown meant...

Democrats are not sellouts and that no one gets a piece of elephant @$$.

If that's the case, it's not as bad as hypocritical complaints about illegals like Meg Whitman Lou Dobbs hiring illegals. Jerry Brown, if you put the word "whore" in proper perspective, was not talking out of both sides of mouth.

Why are you so reluctant to post the up side of what Reuters says about the job numbers?

Just in case you missed it this is what Reuters reported...

"This number makes QE2 more likely. The number just confirms that we have a slow growth economy and there's a lot of work to be done. But the silver lining is that the private sector was on the positive side, though it wasn't strong enough," said Jay Suskind, senior vice president at Duncan-Williams in Jersey City, New Jersey."

Keep groping for your unreasonable slants; dangerfield.

Joe in Albany. You got your facts wrong again. Jerry Brown didn't call Meg Whitman a whore. He mentioned her several times on the tape as Ms. Whitman.

So no, I won't be trashing Jerry Brown for calling Meg Whitman a whore.

Personally, I am wondering what Ms Whitman's camp calls Jerry Brown behind close doors. I'm pretty sure it's not Mr. Brown.

CU Farley

Seriously, I dream about the Obamas' too! In fact, I dreamt about Michelle Obama just the other night. I hugged her and told her how much I liked her and, in my dream, she was kind and radiant. Really, seriously.

That's the way it is with these public figures, they take on larger than life characterics. Of course it's our projections, but there is a "hook" there. For instance, Michelle is a wife and mother, so it makes sense you cast her in the role of a caretaker in your dream. Of course, Whitman isn't a "whore," but she is a candidate who appears to be trying to buy elected office, as opposed to a candidate who seeks to win office by presenting logical arguments.

We're certainly seeing the classlessness of the Lefties today. "Tacky"? That's how one Lefty described Brown's campaign description of Whitman? "Would call her [Whitman] a w**** to her face", says another.

Just think if a Republican had called one of the Democratic women the same name.Think that Republican would have been beat into submission and told to withdraw from any race they were running? You betch'a they would!!

And even I got called the same in one of the posts. Nice. Real classy.

This is what the American Left-wing has become. It gets pretty ugly when you pull the curtain back to expose these cretins.

Personally, I am wondering what Ms Whitman's camp calls Jerry Brown behind close doors. I'm pretty sure it's not Mr. Brown.

More proof of the double sided phony POUTRAGE from the right winger...

I'm still LMAO watching them try to defend Meg & Housekeeper Gate!

You know all this time I was under the impression that selfish redhead AKA Joanna Smith was paid by the word...

It has NOW become crystal clear she's actually paid by the number of responses she gets...

Why else would she continually throw out the most asinine comments for us to defend!

Sorry selfish - you'll now longer be cashing in from my responses!

STTS

JoAnnaSmith1

I've learned to just not read your posts, because you provoke people to get down on a very nasty level. It's your "gift" I guess.

PS I still think you are really Karl Rove. 'Fess up!

Feisty;

Ignore them, they only rehash the same old talking points that we know probally as well as they do. They are just trying to bring us down to their level and it just is not worth it.

We are all in the same boat (the 98% of us anyway) whether we are republicans or democrats. What happens is going to happen to most of us on this board. The shame is that too many do not see it. They have become brainwashed puppits just re-sending the same old tired rhetoric.

When they disagree or cannot dispute the evidence they will just collaspe the post and claim a victory. Never mind that they just prove that they think Freedom of Speech belongs only to a select few. They continue to be bullies and cowards and we cannot change that. Some post should be brought down but many should not. Somebody today called one of the posters here (who I often do not agree with) the same word used to describe Ms. Whitman. I flagged that and it is now gone.

Calling anyone this derogatory name is unacceptable. It shows complete lack of couth....both parties would do well to clean up the language.

After 100 days, Governor Hollywood and his merry band of dysfunctional Democrats finally passed a budget. In reading editorials, it appears the budget was created with accounting gimmicks, strange assumptions of the economy, and $B's anticipated from the Federal government that probably will not arrive, creating another fiscal crisis for the next governor.

Such shady budget prep could have been accomplished days or months ago, for like other CA Democratic government programs, this one is also a problem.

It's amazing how five people can create a failed plan in such a long time without the input of the remaining members of the Assembly and Senate. CA, as again, is in deep trouble.

Bailout anyone?

There is still plenty of confidence in CA debt, safecracker. We don't have to worry about bailouts just yet. Hopefully the next governor will lower pension costs, as annual contributions currently total 1/4 of the budget (though I'm sure we're not meeting that obligation).

As for Jerry Brown name calling, leave it to him to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Still, I don't get what the big deal is. Sticks and stones, man. For what it's worth, I didn't really care about Whitman's undocumented worker either, though the (alleged) hypocrisy in her position on illegal immigrants makes it a larger story.

Actually, I'm just opposed to collapsing comments on that basis. Well, I'm not really copasetic with the sexist nature of the term "whore," either, but that alone isn't enough to collapse a comment, at least in my opinion.

Read the article. Brown did not call anyone a whore, even if Whitman is a whore to the unions when it is convenient. His associate merely suggested that he call her a whore.

Farley - Have you lost your mind? Do you not see why your comments are backwards and offensive? Why don't you throw in a fried chicken and watermelon reference while you are at it!

Let me clarify that. Using the term "whore" shouldn't be enough to collapse a comment unless it's directed at someone here as a personal insult or at some public figure in the sense of its original meaning. It's nasty and pejorative, but that's exactly what makes language powerful. It's effective shorthand that everyone understands. Keep in mind that using the term also says something about the person who uses it that everyone should be able to judge for themselves and respond to if they want to, rather than having others play censor applying only their personal preferences, with no clear or consistent guidelines. I don't use that term myself, nor do I use many expletives or pejorative terms in public parlance, but I'm not so squeamish that I have to be protected from looking at it. Let me make up my own mind about it AND the person who says it.

Anna Molly

I agree with most of what you say, but I think it is not squeamish to collapse a post. A poster here called Joanna Smith the W word. I think it should rightly be collapsed to show that people left or right will not accept the personal attacks.

Although I agree collapsing something doesn't do any good, because most of the time when something is collapsed the rest of us look at it anyway.

Furthermore, I don't think posts should be collapsed out of spite like what happened to Ron from Indiana. Not sure why people collapsed it.

Farley - Have you lost your mind? Do you not see why your comments are backwards and offensive? Why don't you throw in a fried chicken and watermelon reference while you are at it!

Please don't give him any ideas Michael - he's obnoxious enough already! lol

Beverly,

Enough of Whitman and her knowingly hiring an illegal alien. What was she supposed to do, interrogate each and everyone of her employees? Even if she had asked to see the maid (the liar's) SSN, how would she know if it were fake or not. LETS not forget the card was FAKE. The responsibility was on the employment agency to veryify that she was indeed in this country legally. Even if Whitman had wanted to verify her legal status, how would she have done that? She doesn't have access to the proper databases to check that. Her mistake was that she trusted a illegal alien (although she didn't know it at the time, was to be truthful about her immigration status. They never should have expected that liar to check about the letter the Social Security Agency sent them.

So the lesson we have learned here and now along with Lou Dobbs, who again hired a contractor who employed illegals, is don't hire anyone who appears to be mexican, cause we don't really know their legal status. Just because they show you a social security card doesn't mean it isn't fake. Because goodness help you if you accidently hire an illegal, the left is coming after you.

"Joe in Albany. You got your facts wrong again. Jerry Brown didn't call Meg Whitman a whore. He mentioned her several times on the tape as Ms. Whitman.

So no, I won't be trashing Jerry Brown for calling Meg Whitman a whore."

__________________________

"Read the article. Brown did not call anyone a whore"

___________________________

Rambo and Michael: What part of the second sentence below do you not understand???

A second voice then jumps in and says, "What about saying she's a whore?"

"Well, I'm going to use that," Brown responds on the recording.

LMAO@U2!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Janet -- perhaps not everyone agrees on what the issue is here. I think that the fact that Meg Whitman and Lou Dobbs, two outspoken people who want to be "hard" on illegal immigration, who want to deport people and fine employers who hire illegal immigrants, still cannot maintain their personal lifestyle without the use of undocumented workers. Lou Dobbs could not maintain his stable of horses without the use of undocumenteed workers (whether or not he personally hired them) and Meg Whitman couldn't run her household without one. Rather than demonize the undocumented workers, a better policy would be to say, Yes, these people are hard-working, we recognize their value and we should find a way to make these people a regular part of our society.

I once worked in a mfg shop. We had a group of illegals working for us, but, according to the fed regs, if they produce the documents, unless they are obviously fake, you really can't question them. About every 2 yrs, we'd get a note from social security, saying, hey, we'll be visiting next Monday, and could you please tell the following folks that we want to see them? Their SS#s are somehow duplicated, and, hey, it's probably all a mistake, but we just need to see them.

Of course, we'd tell the guys at lunch, and they'd go to lunch and not come back... then, about 3 maybe 4 months later, the same dudes would show up and apply for a job... and imagine that - differnt ss# and really good looking ID. But, dude, didn't you use to be Estaban? Estaban? I don't know no Estaban.

You Dems might love the fact Meg had an illegal. But remember, it's your policies that lead to our pourous border, your desire to tolerate the illegals that create many of these situations. If she hired this person based on the docs provided - which is what is required - and if this person intercepted that note from SS asking about the fact that her employees SS # was somehow duplicated and... well it's probably just an error...

You folks just have no shame if you are blaming Meg for this.

US Navy, you have done an excellent job keeping us informed on this topic. It is time to take our country back--back from the monied interests both foreign and domestic whose sole purpose is to achieve more power and greater wealth.

President Obama was correct yesterday when he said this is a threat to our democracy; he was correct when he criticized the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision as a disatrous one. I do not care which party a person chooses to represent their views but every American should be asking if a powerful and wealthy few and the rest of us returned to serfdom is what they envision as the future.

Thanks for sharing, that's good information. It has reached a point where the rest of us are just a labor force for the wealthy elites, indistinguishable from the labor forces in China and Indonesia. Well, except for one thing--we make too much money. So Conservatives will continue their war on the middle class, destroying us one job, one living, one family at a time until we really are a nation of haves and have nots. Already the gap between the wealthy and everyone else is as large as it was before the Great Depression, a level that ultimately kills the economic vitality of the nation.

The new Robber Barons are here.

Navy

Great post telling it like it is. I do hope all Americans will reject the America Chamber of Commerce with their vote against the duplicitous, greedy, Republicans or should I say the Chambers of China, Russia, Egypt, Indian, Indonesia, Bahrain etceteras?

The GOP/TB asks the silly question --Where are the Jobs?--The GOP/TB knows since they are the ones sending the jobs away. The GOP/TP shrills are lying and deceiving Americans just to line their pockets and coffers to target President Obama and other Democrats. They have not employed any adds in the reverse order. Isn't that strange? Every American should be outraged at the GOP/TP for selling America and American jobs and vote against the GOP/TP before it's too late.

"Similarly, the man caurrently in charge of the Chamber's political activities, Bill Miller, has a history with Law and Rove.

When ones see Karl Rove's name that should be a cue.

Navy, two weeks of blah, blah, blah spinning. It is getting old.

From one Sailor to another, thank you for your service US Navy!

Someone earlier today used "The Sting" to make a point; a valid point. I used the "Big Lie" of Hitler and Goebbels and "newspeak" of Orwell to illustrate the machinations of the oligarchs in their attempt to relieve us of our country for their financial gain.

I read letters to the editors of every paper I get my hands on and have not seen any decryingthe wrongness of the SCOTUS opinion for Citizens United (more newspeak) and the selling of the USA by the US Chamber of Commerce.

I was thinking that someone more eloquentwith words, like Thomas Jefferson, write a letter that the rest of us could use to send to as many papers as possible. Anything said on this blog is just speaking to the choir regardless of which side of the aisle one sets.

Now the libbies are wanting to "take our country back". I always thought a libbie couldn't have an original thought.

Dude, free speech is free speech. If you are willing to halt all political ads from every organization - unions, enviormental groups, PACs, everyone, I might say OK. But our CONSTITUITION guarantees free speech.

Free speech. If you start resticting speech, it simply isn't America. You don't have to agree, but it's great that everyone can express their views. This is one of the few places in all of human history that free speech is a right. Don't frig with that.

Morning GF!

Is D.C. underestimating Obama?

All I can say is YOU Betcha... and it's NOT just DC!

Saw my first Kirk commercial this morning PAID for by the Chamber of Commerce... couldn't help but wonder if it was the Saudis or the Chinese that funded it!

People who don't see this as a threat to OUR very Democracy once again prove you can't fix STUPID!

I just can't fathom the logic of the Conservative wing of the Supreme Court on this one. Money is NOT speech, money is votes. More accurately money is a bribe, and Conservatives have legalized bribery on an unprecedented scale.

Good morning GF

Did you get my e-mail from last night?

Saw my first Kirk commercial this morning PAID for by the Chamber of Commerce... couldn't help but wonder if it was the Saudis or the Chinese that funded it!

People who don't see this as a threat to OUR very Democracy once again prove you can't fix STUPID!

Well, if they are reading and posting @ FR now that we and other media are exposing the hypocrisies and greedy intent of the Chamber of Commerce, I think we can fix stupid.

LoL the Trib endorses Kirk and the Times endorses Ginnouliaus, the real candidate who doesn't accept money from lobbyists and special interests.

Feisty, I'll repeat today what I said in 2008. Every time the media thinks President Obama is down and out, he stands up and smacks them down. They did it with Hilary they did it with McCain they did it with HCR. President Obama likes to play rope a dope with the media, make them think he's out then make a big come back, and they keep falling for it over and over again. President Obama is one smart dude.

Haven't checked my e-mail yet Bev - but will and get back to ya! ;0)

Mo - You're right about that on SO many levels! Thanks for the reminder!

Mo - you took the word right out of my mouth.

I remember back in the campaign where Hillary Clinton was shrieking 'Shame on you, barack Obama' in the media. He didn't respond, and ripped off 12 primary wins when she wasn't looking. When Hillary looked up from her rant, she lost he candidacy.

Hillary underestimated our President and LOST.

I remember back when the President was running against Sen. McCain. When Sen. McCain brought in Sarah Palin, all we heard was that 'Obama is paling aruond with terrorists' and 'he is NOT like us'. While the vitroil was spewing, the President quietly whipped McCain's butt in the election to become our first African-American President.

Sen. McCain underestimated our President and LOST.

I remember back when we were hearing about HCR for a YEAR with everyoune saying that it could not be done. With all of the 'Death Panels', 'Killing Grandma', and obfuscation by both Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats alike, the President stepped up and TELEVISED a smackdown of the Republicans on what their LACK of ideas were for HCR. He ended up victorious by passing HCR over the objection of ALL of the Republicans.

The Republicans underestimated our President and LOST.

Yes. We see the constant whining from the GOPers about 'repeal and replace'. It seems to me if you hada good program inthe first place, then you wold not need to 'repeal and replace', would you?

The fact of the matter is that our President is making the GOPers and many who back them look like complete idiots. So, even on this blog, we have people who 'troll through' and drop their anti-Obama load and then leave. They have no ideas. They have no solutions. They have nothing but vitroil and do nothing but attack, attack, attack.

That shows me that President Obama is driving these people NUTS.

The funny part about all of this - they have not figured a way to BEAT President Obama yet, and this is driving a certain part of our electorate INSANE. I hear a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth from the President's opposition, but nothing else.

I really don't understand how people can vote for candidates that have no ideas about anything and no clue about governing. They haven't given us anything that we can be FOR. When we ask the GOP supporters to explain what THEY would do to help, we get... NOTHING.

Are we surprised?

Please remember to vote on November 2nd.

Nice work out of Columbus. He actually never set foot on the North American continent and the closest he ever got to "America" was the island we now call Puerto Rico.

Of course, he also got there about 500 years late. The Vikings had settlements in Newfoundland dating back to around 900 A.D.

True. More and more evidence is showing that the Indians may not have even been here "first." But if they were, it was just because they had....reservations! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

Credit where due, CU...8.2 was funny.

CU Farley

What is with the unprovoked native american attack? You sound like Colbert testifying to Congress, "I enjoy speaking against the people with the least power."

What Da Noid was saying is that Columbus probably wasn't the first eurpoean to stumble upon the New World. They were here first. They might ask you as you are quick to tell Latinos like me 'Papers please.'

If Columbus hadn't come and stumbled upon America someone else would have. The ambition you describe, greed more like it would have driven others here.

CU, I will announce my Native American blood but with pride, not hostility. My 8th great grandfather was an Englishman. His son was half English and half Nottoway (Cheranhakaw). They fought side by side in the Revoluntionary War. I also have ancestry with another tribe in the southeast.

As somebody who loves genealogy, I smile when you mentioned the "part Cherokee". So many will say that because that's what "family lore" told them. Truth be known, they might be anything but Native American. Many considered the Cherokee a "prettier" and more civilized people so people would claim that heritage.

Often, the claim was made to hide other ethnic backgrounds, though. If anybody is interested, search for the term "melungeon" sometime and learn about some of the early racial mixing and discrimination in this country. Fascinating history. My family story gets more complicated because apparently, by DNA testing, there were some Turks, Spaniards and Italians, probably sailors, that got mixed in there about the same time. But, until I became involved in the family search, anybody in my family would have said "We're Scot-Irish and English...period." When I see some of these white supremacy groups, I want to laugh out loud because odds are they aren't "pure" anything! (Well, they're pure something but I won't use that word here!)

Sorry for getting off topic but learning my history has meant a lot to me. I think my family is a real example of the "melting pot", and I'm proud of all their risks and trials. And, like you, CU, I'm proud of my country, no matter who was here first.

Sorry John but you'll have to go back over to Fox to get their lies so you can decide. They say what you want to hear not what's factual.

It is.

Bill Great post, good to see you this morning, blah blah blah. Oh wait a minute thats the other side that does that. I can't believe you gave facts and the libs aren't all over calling you a racist or hater. Where are you libs. Can't stand the truth.

Pssst... Ace...

See the problem is that we don't agree with Bill however, Bill has earned our respect... something that no doubt is a foreign concept to you! lol

Ace - Bill has been around a long time. What Feisty said is true - we don't always agree with Bill, but there is a mutual respect. That makes this blog more interesting because we can share ideas and debate where we disagree - civilly.

Good to see ya Bill.

as if UNIONS aren't??? Geeze Pete..................

"as if unions aren't???" Aren't what? Forreign?

I'm just curious...

How many jobs should have been created with the money the Chamber of Commerce is dumping into campaigns?

They could be paying employees who would, in turn, become customers for their goods and services.

I guess they're just more interested in finding the best democracy money can buy.

"Vote Republican Or We Won't Give You Any Jobs!"

...not a very inspiring campaign slogan.

Always with the unions. Six dollars of this "anonymous funding" money are being spent on behalf of Republicans for every dollar being spent on behalf of Democrats. So let's not pretend this is an equal-opportunity problem. It's Conservatives buying Republican lawmakers.

Yawn

he's worse than what we first thought!

I am!!! DOWN with the DEMS!! Vote ALL DEMS OUT!!! Get this Leftie Elitist Liberal the hell under control. Get the Pelosies and Reids OUT!! Give America back to her people.

And your ideas to save this great nation are WHAT????

USNAVY Ret - annirich HAS no new ideas. She doesn't know (and doesn't want to know) that the Tea Party is funded by rich industrialists and ex-Republicans. She thinks that the Tea Party was formed by 'regular people' who wanted a voice in Washington.

No she has no new ideas. She has no ideas at all. it's all about shaking her fist at the clouds yelling 'get off my lawn!'. Instead of contributing to America and trying to HELP get us ALL out of this mess we are in, she is shaking her fist yelling 'Down with the Dems'.

Classy.

I do challenge her to prove me wrong.

Ah, the Leftist Elite bogeyman. GW Bush was just a regular guy you could drink a beer with even though he was born rich from an old-money family and granted an Ivy-League education by right of legacy. Barack Obama is an elite because he was born poor, fed with food stamps at times, and pulled himself up by his bootstraps to become a constitutional law professor.

Up is down, night is day in Conservativeworld. It's all part of destroying our objective view of things.

annirich. Give which America back to whom? The pre-Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton or pre-Bush 43 one? Let's see, I'll take the pre-Bush 43 because prior to Bush 43, the economy was humming, 23 million new jobs, a budget surprise and we were not fighting two wars. I want my country back and that is exactly the country President Obama is trying to restore.

Pietro So the Koch family gives some money to the tea party. Who is footing the bill for the dems? Lets see.......... whom...... whats his name.......... Oh yes SOROS. George Soros. The same George Soros who made a ton of money shorting the pound and is now shorting the dollar. Thats pretty American isn't it, betting against you country or is it his country?

ace48 - I am not George Soros' keeper and neither are you. How he makes his money is HIS business. I don't particularly like currency speculators (or speculators of any kind), but there is no law agains currency speculation.

Who he supports is also his business, and I have no method to control that.

In relation to Annirich, she stated that the Tea Party was formed by 'regular people' who wanted smaller government. I challenged her (on anotherthread) and she has never gotten back to me to prove me wrong. She is a troll who rolls in, drops her load, and disappears.

The point I was making is that this so-called Tea Party supporter had NO IDEA who HER supporters are. I am just calling her out to prove me wrong.

I don't expect an answer because annirich won't answer.

STIMULUS, HEALTH CARE, CAP & TRADE, VAT, UNEMPLOYMENT....need I say more??? Vote Dems and support the Progressives ie Communisits!!!

I will ask you again. Your ideas to save this great nation are what???

How would you reduce the deficit, what woould you cut

How would you create jobs in this country

How would you improve Education

There's where you are completely wrong, democrats do care where the money comes from. All campaign money should require full disclosure of donars even if it is private PACs spending it.

Well said, Salt Grass. This is what will happen when people stop looking at the human factor and view it only from the monetary side; when they stop caring about the least among us.

Salt And Jody-- Run down to the homeless shelter and donate some money or time. Better yet take groceries to the food banks. If you're worried about what could happen open the wallet and start giving right now. Charity get 10% of our take home pay and I know liberials who don't give anything and bitch about the cost of a YMCA membership. These are attorneys who make 6 figures. Libs are all about giving everybody what they want as long as they are not paying for it. Let that rich guy pay. Well ,I'm not rich and I'm paying twice [taxes and charity] and feel good about it.

Or just keep sending in your tax dollars and let Uncle BO take care of it.

Mypoint is that if you lay off government workers, then more people will be without work and without private sector jobs, more people will be homeless. Some of the people I see would be homeless if we had 3% unemployment, but women and children are becoming a large part of the homeless population.

Good point, Amy. I agree.

I wonder why the media did not cover the story of people turning their backs to the Bush motorcade; and the right claims the media is biased toward liberals. They spent a day or two discussing President Obama wearing white shirt and tie to the Gulf during the oil spill crisis--why was he not wearing jeans?

I watched the exchange too Houston!

Rachel was phenomenal with the way she handled that NUT JOB!

What a condescending arrogant a@@ (kinda reminds me of someone else who lurks around here and I think you know who I'm talking about)? lol

Apparently "Junior Grizzly" as a problem with people who attended Yale. I think it's important, then, to put together a list of notable Republicans who went to Yale:

Prescott Bush, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John Ashcroft, William H. Taft, Samuel Alito, George Pataki, Gerald Ford...

...not to mention fellow Tea Party favorite and GOP nominee for Senator from Alaska Joe Miller!!!

Art Robinson had a chip on his shoulder before Rachael started the interview. He actually thought he could bring Rachael down. Well Art she made you look like an idiot.

Notice how Art was unable to sit still in his chair?

After the spanking Rachel gave him last night me thinks he won't be sitting anywhere for a while! lol

I saw that interview, too. Wow, what a rude and cranky man. He is a scientist but I think he borders on the Frankenstein version of mad scientist.

Houston!

Art Robinson got his comeuppance with Rachel Maddow last night.

It was a joy to behold the way she unnerved him to point of behaving like a spoiled child. He hoped by talking over her that the public would not hear what she was saying.

Did not work.

I heard her questions and read the graphics on display about his position on AIDS and nuclear waste and the man might as well use his CAL Tech degree for toilet paper.

He comes across as a Mad Scientist and certainly not capable of representing Oregon in a thoughtful and reasonable way.

God help us if this is what a Majority Republican Congress will look like.

Houston!

I forgot to mention that Mr. Robinson was so condescending that even if her weren't a certifiable psych case he doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.

And you solutions for

Reducing the deficit are what? What programs would you cut?

How would you create more US Jobs?

How about Education, how would you get us back to #1

A common theme seems to be. You democrats did not solve all the problems in the eighteen months you have had total control (if you discount obstructionism) So now we are going to reelect the people who gave us the problems to begin with? This is all about emotion not logic.

USN, you are asking republicans for a debate? Republicans on this board are like the republicans running for office. They have all pleaded the fifth. They're silence is their only hope of victory because if they have to answer yours or anyone elses questions simply spells DOOMED!

American Joe, it looks like you are correct. As you can see with some of the more virulent posts here, when the posts are challenged, you see that the poster is NOWHERE to be found.

That proves to me that the poster is a troll who come here, drops their load, and disappear. There is no debate, no questions or give-and-take.

I know that I am finding that over 70% (my numbers, my opinion) of the more virulent right-wing posters just drop their loads and disappear. It is kind of hard to find out what THEY think or what THEIR ideas, isn't it?

Who are Afro Americans?

I'm not part of any elite, any union, or any of the minority groups you resent, but as far as I'm concerned, the recovery is working out pretty well. As I've said several times all of the value of my investments that was lost in the Bush Recession has been recovered -- and then some -- in the Obama Recovery.

I am still puzzled as to why all the Tea Partiers, most of whom have not lost their jobs, don't seem to have any investments at all. If they did, they wouldn't be screaming so loud. Or maybe they're just in too much of a frenzy of hate over having a "Kenyan anti-colonialist" in the White House t have noticed that they're better off now than they were two years ago.

Houston, your asking them to recognize common sense when all they spew is nonsense. Good luck with that one!

Interesting how the topic is "has President Obama been UNDERestimated", but ALL the Conservatives are piping up with "Of course he's been OVERestimated". It's all part of the Conservative tactic to game the refs and set the rules as they go.

Patrick Salt Lake City

So if the "w" word is a problem for Brown then it should be double the problem for Miller in Alaska. Right? I am sure you remember, he, not an aide, called Murkoski the same name.

Thanks for restoring the balance.

It is wrong no matter who said it...moral equivalence and selective outrage are the refuge of the hypocrite. You either condemn it or you don't.

dangerfield

So you are condemning Miller then?

Which part confused you?

It is wrong no matter who said it...moral equivalence and selective outrage are the refuge of the hypocrite. You either condemn it or you don't.

How addled by partisanship do you have to be to not understand an unequivocal comment?

Ah, but we live in a world where selective outrage is accepted as a matter of course. How much noise was there when Dick Cheney said "FU" to a sitting member of Congress on the floor of Congress? How many even still remember that incident? It was spun as a lot of noise about nothing when it was a direct insult to a person of prominence in his own place. Now a conversation that was meant to be private, using a crudity meant to convey Brown's disgust with Whitman is a big deal.

I'm not saying either is right. I'm saying we live in a world where selective outrage is played HARD as a normal part of the political toolbox.

Dangerfield

It is wrong no matter who said it...moral equivalence and selective outrage are the refuge of the hypocrite. You either condemn it or you don't. .

Then we can safely assume that you attacked the right wingers here for their selective outrage at Brown's campaign consultant but not at the well-known instances of Republicans crossing the line. Right? Or do you only attack Democrats?