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Subscribe to RSSKentucky Democratic Senate candidate Jack Conway's attack ad, which uses Republican opponent Rand Paul's college-age "Aqua Buddha" incident to question his faith, sparked a debate among liberal bloggers over whether the ad's implications - that Paul holds a disdain for Christianity left over from his youth - are a legitimate political attack or hit below the belt on issues that should be irrelevant to a Democratic candidate.
The blog of the left-leaning New Republic featured a post by Jonathan Chait, who wrote that the ad is the "ugliest, most illiberal political ad of the year."
"I actually don't doubt the implication of the ad, namely that Rand Paul harbors a private contempt for Christianity. He's a devotee of Ayn Rand, who is a fundamentally anti-Christian thinker. And much of Paul's history, which he is frantically covering up in an attempt to pass himself off as a typical Republican, suggests among other things a deep skepticism about religion.
"The trouble with Conway's ad is that it comes perilously close to saying that non-belief in Christianity is a disqualification for public office. That's a pretty sickening premise for a Democratic campaign."
Washington Monthly's liberal blogger Steve Benen also seemed to think that the attacking of a Republican candidate's religious beliefs was not in keeping with the Democratic ethos, suggesting that the ad is a desperate attempt to get a lead on Paul in the polls.
"I have no idea whether something like this will be effective. Kentucky's cultural conservatism and strong evangelical majority may respond well to the message, and reinforce fears about Paul's personal oddities. (The point is spelled out plainly in the ad's conclusion: "Why are there so many questions about Rand Paul?")
"Still, I much preferred when Democrats didn't attack rival candidates over their religious beliefs."
Balloon Juice's Doug J seemed to think the ad missed its purpose completely.
"I have to admit, this anti-Rand Paul ad kind of makes me want to vote for the guy. Got to be the funniest ad I’ve ever seen, though I don’t think that’s intentional. But what do I know about Kentucky politics?"
Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, the founder of Daily Kos, wrote on his blog that the ad was fair game, as a candidate's personal beliefs were as relevant to their political credentials as their policy stances.
"I can see why Chait and other progressives might be a bit upset, as the ad attacks Rand Paul for his irreligious beliefs.
"Personally, I see nothing wrong with it. Voters are less concerned with issues than values when casting their ballots, and for many voters, religion speaks to the candidate's values. I may not like it, but it's a democracy, and the notion that the source of a candidate's values are off-limits is patently absurd.
"Sure, that means that as an atheist I would never get elected in Mississippi or Alabama or Kentucky, but so what? No one has a right to electoral office, and in a democracy, you have to sell yourself to the voters. In many places, religion is part of the package."
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The real sad part of this is the implication that there's something wrong in worshiping the Aqua Buddha. Aqua Buddism...don't know it till you tried it!
The only thing I can really say is that I think it's time for a rousing chorus of "Circle Jerkin' It."
Personally, I find it refreshing to hear that there is an actual 'belt' and going below it has consequences. Quite the revelation in this day and age.
MORE MSNBC enabling of democrat mud slinging, inuendo and gutter politics?
Do voters really want MORE failed stimulus, disasterous Obamacare, dramatically bigger government, centralized government control, Wall Street and Union handouts?
You have got to be kidding, its all the MSM has done. Watching MSNBC in the morning is like watching one endless ad for the GOP
There you have it, Madison. That's how far to the left some of the people on here are. They think MSNBC is a shill for the right. These are the people who think Hilary is a conservative and are only mad at Obama because he hasn't gone far enough yet with his socialist agenda.
The people on this site are so far away from the American Middle, they couldn't find their way to it with a GPS. Thank God they only make up a small majority of this nation. That's why I don't take them seriously and neither does Obama come to think of it.
Only an ultra right partisan would consider MSNBC to be liberal.
Patrick Salt Lake City
Lean forward....:)
BOHICA
Republican madison, it is HCReform not Obama care --he did not write a word of the legislation the Congress did--it is their job. The stimulus worked or your buddies in your state would have greater security risks and fewer teachers because they would be Fired under the 'do nothing' republicans..We no longer are losing 750,000 jobs a month that began in mid 2008 when CHeney and bush were in office...
Rove has set the belt at the ankles --the baggers are helping him! Despicable!
You have bent too far over on fox if you really believe that msnbc is liberal..Listen to c.Todd... We are still suffering from the do nothing deregulation of the Bush years..Deluded is mild !
here's to the day when you're right CU...when the majority of this nation thinks Hillary is a conservative! Nothing could be sweeter to this Lib's ears than to hear Tea Bagger's scream at the top of their lungs, about subjects that McConnell and Boehner AGREE WITH, but are politically savy enough not to say out loud!
Liberals for a vibrant Tea Bagger Party!!! Give 'em the microphone and just let 'em talk !
first of all, the word is Democratic- not Democrat.
Second- lurn too spel.
Of course it's fair game, why would a Lib see anything wrong with it? I mean, it's not like Chait called Paul a Muslim our anything. Who'd get all bent out of shape about that claim some are making about someone like, say, Obama? Well, other then the current POTUS and his little groupie friends?
So I imagine Markos will be there should to shoulder every step of the way when the (incorrect) claims of Obama being Muslim are being pushed by some group during the next election.
This is the rest of Markos' comments:
Voters are less concerned with issues than values when casting their ballots, and for many voters, religion speaks to the candidate's values. I may not like it, but it's a democracy, and the notion that the source of a candidate's values are off-limits is patently absurd.
Sure, that means that as an atheist I would never get elected in Mississippi or Alabama or Kentucky, but so what? No one has a right to electoral office, and in a democracy, you have to sell yourself to the voters. In many places, religion is part of the package.
But this "controversy" is particularly stupid for one big reason -- Conway didn't inject religion into this race, Rand Paul did:
If you're going to start the "holier-than-thou" BS, then you absolutely make religion a valid issue in the campaign. Remember, it was Rand Paul that tried to gin up the outrage machine when Conway said the word "hell" during his Fancy Farm picnic earlier this year. To criticize Conway for pushing back aggressively is not only wrong-headed, it's also self-defeating.
Particularly since the ad has drawn blood. Paul refused to shake Conway's hand after their last debate, and he's now threatening to pull out of their last debate.
Paul knows he's in trouble, on the defensive from the one-two punch of his $2,000 Medicare deductible debacle and his college irreligiousness. He's flailing, lashing out, and in a tied race, it could make the difference in the end. Conway needs to push this attack.
Update: Paul responds in ad accusing Conway of "bearing false witness", without explaining what part of Conway's ad was false. Of course, none of it was.
There's desperation alright, but not with Paul. Just think of the campaign strategy session for Chait where they are trying to find issues to bust Paul on. The economy? No that's not a good one, Democrats have fouled that one up real bad. Unemployment? Another bad one, looks like 10% unemployment is here to stay. ObamaCare? No, that ones radioactive, a sure loser for the Democrats. Need something, but what? Aqua-Budda! Yeah, there you go Chait, you found the real winner!
Eat it on a stick, JAS. I'm a huge liberal, and I don't think dragging out some garbage that some kid did that long ago is relevant. Much as I don't like Rand, I say Conway is out of line on this one.
No @!$%#in' @!$%#, Drive By.
Joanna: give it a @!$%#in' rest already.
The natives are angry. Something is troubling them.
Yeah - the proximity of bull@!$%#.
I'll call your Jesus bet, and raise you one baby Jesus! I'm sick of religion from politicians and politics from preachers. I believe hell will be full of these bible thumpers.
Wow. Lets compare all the nasty invective used against democrats by the Republican Tea Party this cycle. Them come whine to me about Conway.
Since Mr. Paul has been selling himself on his Christianity, it seems fair to ask him questions about his association with the group that ridicules his supposed beliefs. I wouldn't care what his religion was, but being a hypocrite about it would be of interest.
Of course it might backfire on Conway, but that's part of the game.
Reminds me of Hillary's "slum lord" comment during one of her debates with Obama. Dems need to learn that as the party of supposedly higher standards and intellectual persuasion, that they will always get nailed for stupid comments/arguments. The GOP on the other hand is supposed to say outrageous, nonsensical and often very mean, stupid things. Dems have to be who they are, and run on it. Otherwise they look just like the other guy, and this year that isn't going to work. Anything done by someone before they were 30 should be off limits to employers and politics. Any while we are at, let's get the military records out of the argument also. We aren't electing eagle scouts, altar boys, saints or war heros. We are electing people with solutions and an ability to view the world from many perspectives without prejudice.
So lets add it up, what have we got so far from the Obama and the Democrats. Phony Chamber of Commerce charges of foreign money. If Boehner is majority leader in the House he'll destroy Social Security, Medicare, life as we know it, and several of the outer planets. Fox news somehow runs the world. Now we're up to something called Aqua-Buddah.
One thing the Democrats don't want to talk about? Their most recent "accomplishments".
I really fail to see what the @!$%#-all the bulk of your post has to do with Conway running a negative attack ad.
Sorry to have disappointed you ED. We all battle for your loving affection, and I've seem to have come up short in meeting your high standards for this one post.
See to it that next time your comments are up to the caliber I've come to expect. Failure and disappointment are not options with me~
Four word sentences of snark, correct? Oh, gosh, I went over the limit again!
I know. Geez. What's wrong with you? Stop boning it up. :<
There's plenty of hitting below the belt by republican ads, too. I know, I see them every night. Both sides should back off the attacks. Republicans have used something said by a democrat in their youth so what a republican said also becomes fair game--the republicans cannot claim moral high ground.
The primary thing that is sad about this ad is that it is based on things that actually happened.
And the fact that the only way Conway can get some media attention is to go negative.
I will trust the good folks of Kentucky to decide.
That Conway has to resort to this, in your words, to "get some media attention," would you not say that's indicative of the possibility that he's doing a rather piss-poor job of campaigning and getting his message across?
Where's our KY 'truthteller' when we need him?
Rick -- can you give us an update on what's going on down there?
Exodite Dragon:
I haven't really been following the race, so I truly can't say. But I do know that Democrats trying to take the "high road" had usually ended with them losing the race.
It is curious how the sight of a Democratic politician fighting for their seat using Republican tactics is so shocking.
After the whole swift-boating debacle, I guess I am just immune to "outrage" about negative ads.
I do mind outright lies however.
I am leaving my desk for now . . . will check in later.
It is curious how the sight of a Democratic politician fighting for their seat using Republican tactics is so shocking.
I don't know what is worse; promoting the silly contention that one party owns the copyright on negative campaigning, or the double standard of attempting to condone and justify the same tactic in the same sentence...
Dangerfield beat me to it, but yes, that exactly. Why should we give Conway a pass just because Rand (or other Republicans at large) do the same? You and so many other people damn the right for their attack strategies come election year, but it becomes hypocritically okay for the Democrats to do it because you justify it as a vengeful blow, or better yet, giving them a taste of their own medicine.
The only thing @!$%# like this causes to arise in me is an ever-deepening loathing and loss of respect not just for the candidates, but for the political system and broader culture that allows it.
Now as far as his campaign's method of conveying his particular message, well. I asked because I, too, haven't been following the Kentucky race as closely as those in Nevada, Delware and Texas. I was hoping you might have some keener insight I lack. :<
Feigned indignation and false innocence is the republican stock in trade...Reagan did, Rove has perfected it..
Conway may be taking it back too far but with the lack of honesty on the republican side--who really cares This actually happened unlike the lies put out by the Gop and rove!
Who cares?
I and everyone else who's sick of seeing our political system run itself like a goddamn circus side-show. It doesn't matter WHO does it for WHAT reason; it ain't right regardless.
I didn't condone the ad . . . I said I wasn't shocked or outraged.
What I find curious is that the airwaves are covered coast to coast with this type of negative drivel, so what is so uniquely special about this one?
I really can't figure out what it is - especially since we have been analyzing the President's religion in depth for almost 2 years now.
I am not going to pretend to be SHOCKEd at the ad, or that I don't understand why it was made.
Simple fact is, under all the shock and outrage and sadness that such a thing was said and done, Mr. Paul has not explained what his role was in this bizarre incident.
I don't think the answer to this question will be particularly enlightening, but most of our politics isn't.
I just find it curious that Democrats are expected to take the high road, and Republicans are given a much wider berth.
Come on GF... we've been doing this long enough to already KNOW the answer to that! ;0)
So true Feisty, so true.
(Hope you had a great birthday!)
It's almost to the point that you cannot put into words the hypocrisy from the righties!
* I said almost cause just when you think they can't get anymore sh!t house rat crazy... one comes along to prove the point!*
Shout out to my late Grama for the rat comparision... lol
Hope you're having a WONDERFUL anniversary as well!
Did you know that the high holy days of Aqua Buddism are upon us?
Is it at all like the Age of Aquarius?
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.
Jonathan Swift
Please, Conway didn't have a chance in the reddest of red states...at least he'll go down fighting and having brought out how bizarre Rand Paul is.
What did you do when you were in college?...I am thankful that facebook wasn't around to document MY youthful indiscretions...
God, ain't THAT the truth...
This guy belongs to a religious cult , you cant trust a word he says .
One purpose of an attack ad is to test the reaction of the candidate. When President Obama was hit with the Wright attacks, he used the controversy to deliver an insightful speech on religion and race in America. That's a great leader.
Unsuccessful candidates are the ones that get testy and teary-eyed. In my state, the Tea Party candidate has lost votes for his belligerent reponse to pointed questions around his tax problems. I think the public watches a candidate's reaction to criticism, more than it takes the attacks seriously.
Now THERE'S a good point I hadn't considered.
Up until 2007, Healthcare was rated within the top three concerns of the American public...Too bad people haven't read the new bill.It's basically a big improvement over what we use to have.True, there needs to be some modifications but in the end it's a good bill.
Yeah, it's a good bill - in the same way contracting ebola is preferable to getting the black death.
No Bill, it isn't a good bill. It is a bad bill with a few good things in it. And that is why it is costing the dems.
Oops, sorry. I think we are completely off topic here. Does drinking Aqua Velva count here?
EXO:
Which of these provisions do you equate with contracting ebola?
http://www.icemiller.com/enewsletter/Benefits/Health_Reform_Summary_wrt_Benefits_Issues.htm
* a tax credit available to small employers that offer health coverage to their employees;
* the extension of dependent coverage mandate and related tax relief;
* the Early Retiree Reinsurance Program;
* rules for maintaining Grandfathered Plan status;
* application of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) coverage reforms on retiree-only health plans and HIPAA excepted benefits; [this makes it easier for early retirees to get health insurance, thus encouraging early retirement and making room for younger workers]
* the prohibition on lifetime and annual dollar limits and procedures for a temporary waiver;
* the prohibition on pre-existing condition exclusions;
* the prohibition on rescissions in health plans; [dumping people who've paid premiums for years when they get sick]
* patient protections afforded under the PPACA;
* coverage for preventive health services with no cost-sharing requirements;
* requirements for internal claims and appeals processes and external reviews;
* the HIPAA opt-out for self-funded nonfederal governmental health plans.
I hope you're not objecting to the "death panels" that Sarah Palin and Chuck Grassley et. al. lied about. The only thing real that I've heard anyone complain about is the individual mandate -- backed by the very same Chuck Grassley when the Republicans proposed it as an alternative to "HillaryCare."
I agree with Houston! :o)
Herp-a-derp
I think you need to disregard what people thought when they were young. Let he here who did nothing stupid when they were young cast the first stone. I agree with the Objectivist argument on most things, however, their rejection of the meta-physical (i.e. God) is where I diverge from them.
Why such a hullabaloo from Paul about Conway questioning his religious beliefs when the "tea party" continually raises the question of President Obama's religion? There's such a double standard in our politics.
Beginning with the beloved Bill Clinton lowering the bar with his lack of morals while being in the highest office of trust - - now even ones' personal faith beliefs are attacked by this Conway character - - throw the bum out before he even gets to the office!
Please, spare us all your false rage and indignation. You have spent the last 2 years saying President Obama is a godless Muslim and you don't expect push-back.
I'm waiting for Paul's next news conference where he starts crying and whimpering about how he was wronged. It make a good theatrical moments but that is about all. Paul is going to milk this for all he can.
Sorry Rand, but when you put yourself in the position of a candidate in the modern world, anything you said or did is fair game. You need to stop whining like a snot nosed child and own up to your own past. You made your own bed, now lie in it.
This guy is creepy and hes a doctor? I wouldn't let him touch me ...another religious cult member !
Conway didn't inject this subject into the debate, he was answering a question put forth by Joe Arnold of our local ABC affiliate WHAS. For those of you who don't know, Arnold has a habit of sensationalism and I believe he asked about this particular matter to get the reaction he wanted.
The attack ads here in Kentucky and southern Indiana from Conservatives have been the worst I have seen ever. They include outright lies, distortions and innuendos. To go all aghast over Conway is just so typical of politics today.