Cap thier Health Benefits for the Familys also!

does this include Congress and Sanate?????????

They vote on that every year.

They already agreed to freeze their pay for 2011:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:SN03244:@@@L&summ2=m&

"Eliminates automatic cost of living adjustments for Members of Congress during FY2011.

4/22/2010--Passed Senate without amendment."

How about a pay cut like 10% to 20% like fedex did, including the top dog....

This will make the bureaucratic "red tape" more like "duct tape." Slower, less helpful, fabulous - just get a "real" merit system in place, fire the lazy workers and pay the good ones what they are worth, we'll save trillions.

Aanii Black Kettle, are you still on the vine?

The typical compensation for Federal employees is more than double what people in the private sector get paid. Their basic pay averages $81,258 vs only $50,462 in the private sector, but the biggest difference is in pension and health benefits, where the average Federal employee gets $41,791 in benefits vs only $10,589 in the private sector. The TOTAL compensation for a Federal employee is $123,049 (over $10,000 per month), more than double the $61,051 for a Private Sector employee.

If there are 2.65 Million civilian Federal employees, that's an EXTRA cost to the taxpayer of over $160 Billion per year, which is more than half the average annual Deficit under G W Bush of $251 Billion per year.

What makes it even more egregious is that the typical public sector employee has a far less chance of being laid off - in fact it's almost impossible to fire an incompetent Federal employee because of union rules. While the typical Private Sector employee turnover is every 5 years, the average Public Sector employee keeps their job for 20 years.

It used to be that a Public Sector employee traded lower pay for better benefits and job security, but now everything is totally lopsided in favor of Public Employees.

The site to verify this information is as follows;

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

Heaven forbid that to happen. You know those people need self implemented pay raises every now and then, to make them feel they are still above the everyday peons of this land. Gee, that would be like asking them to outlaw booze, you know, that stuff that when it makes you drunk, and you get behind the wheel of a car, you could end up killing not only yourself, but anyone else who may happen to be on the same road they are on.

It`ll be a cold day in hell when that happens. Do you see any subzero weather forecasts happening for Washington anytime soon? No? I didn`t think so either.

come on now, everyone knows they vote their own salaries, so me thinks they will get a raise

Stop whining! Only twenty percent of the populace votes. Therefore, the majority of people have no right to b*tch about a system that they don't participate in. What ever happened to a little sacrifice on behalf of one's country. It's nothing but me, me, me anymore.

If you think the system's broken and can do a better job, then get off the damn computer and go do something positive to change the 'broken' system instead of just whining about it.

probably not. And although it may be emotionally satisfying if they did....it would not make any significant difference to any gov't budget

Just saying, try concentrating on what would really make a difference, rather than venting on what doesnt'.

Do the math...congressman annual wage....less than 5-10 % of the average wage of a baseball player....

The friends I have who are Federal govt workers have much better jobs as far as time off, sick days, etc, than any of my friends in the corporate world. Those of us in the corporate world have not received much, if any, salary increase in the last 2 years, so I think it is about time that someone "normalizes" the Federal government jobs to be in alignment with the corporate world. Pay a decent wage, but cut back on the "cushy" benefits. My husband had a temporary government job and I was so surprised that he got one sick day a month! And the attitude of the temporary workers was "we may as well use these because we are going to lose them if we don't." How productive is that?

I am no longer an Obama supporter, but I do agree with this decision....and yes, Congressional benefits should be looked at as well!!

What the public does not know that some agencies, such as SEC, CFTC and other Financial agencies have been on a gravy train with pay way over the public pay rate and way beyond other agencies. These employees may have similar titles as the public but there duties are not, so they have inflated pay grades and inflate pay. On top of that, they hire consultants to distance themselves from failure, then hire more staff to watch over the consultants. Yes they justify it all, with the same nonsense they have always done. Just throw more staff at the problem - instead of have competent staff- so hire three to do one job, plus add in a few consultants. All the news have to do is do a FOIA request to these agencies and they will get a huge surprise. Who thinks the Financial agencies did a good job? And BTW, they lie to congress all the time - surprise!!!

Merry Christmas, federal workers!!! This might have been necessary, but Obama could have picked a better time of year to announce it. It isn't going to contribute anything positive to the consumer spending side of the economy.

Well, it's a start. How about finishing the job by reducing govt. worker's pay and benefits to the level of the private sector and get rid of the Unions. Then the govt. would be doing something in the right direction.

now that he has given away billions and trillions, he's trying to figure out how to pay it back. what a joke. let the rich pay for it.. yeah.. just like they pay for everything else. i say let everyone pay for it, not just one section of the tax paying population. wake up people.

Addendum to my Post at #1.6

There is a HUGE conflict of interest for public employee unions to use taxpayer funded union payments to make contributions to politicians (95% to Democrats) who will give the unions big pay and benefit packages in return. While there is nothing wrong with public employees making personal contributions to politicians of their choice, it should be illegal for taxpayer funded union payments to be used for partisan political contributions.

It certainly should include the Senate and House. Cut back should also be restricted to only necessary travel by all.

craig speakman "Stop whining! Only twenty percent of the populace votes. Therefore, the majority of people have no right to b*tch about a system that they don't participate in."

So what do you propose we do about those irresponsible minor children, prisoners and illegal immigrants?

This is a good start but must also be accompanied with a hiring freeze. It does no good if you freeze pay but just hire more people to make up the difference. The cost of government (gobmint) must come down and fast. A 100 BILLION hair cut for defense is also long overdue as we currently spend more on defense than all other countries combined. The industrial military complex is out of control and must be reined in.

OK. Start from the top. Do we really need 2 senators? 2 Congressman. Did having 2 of each help the state, the country be better? Or can 1 do the job better?

I am a NPS employee (my wife is also a fed employee) and (we) fully support the freeze; however, I wish you bloggers had all the facts about the (supposed) pay differential between feds and the private sector. I, for one, took a 35% CUT in salary when I left the private sector, but am thankful I have a job that is much more rewarding. Please be aware that the USA Today article quoted below did not have (anywhere close to) all the facts and is, in fact, grossly deficient in overall accuracy.

I'm confused as to why public sector employees in Federal jobs need unions anyway?

I certainly hope so.

So, Mr. & Ms. federal employee, are you happy with your president now? Seems the budget has come home to roost on your dime. No raises for you.

Actually, I'd prefer to see about 1/2 the federal employees seek private sector jobs. It would reduce the burden on all taxpayers. Our government is way overburdened with too many employees anyway. Get rid of most social services and maybe our government will get on track with the budget and we can start reducing our debt.

Roy Wilson brings up a good point... why are civil employees unionized anyway? What's the sense of having a union control the employees of our federal government. Somethings wrong with this picture. Imagine a scenerio of all the air traffic controllers walking off the job.... uh... wait, that's already happened. As I recall, there was a huge shift in workers when they did. I wonder how many union people still have their jobs after walking out. But we had a president that didn't falter in action back then.

Roy Wilson: I don't know where you got your numbers from, but I would love to make, as a Federal employee, even the public sector wage that you quoted as an average. My Federal salary is only about 10% higher than a public sector person, in New Mexico, for a comparable job would make. I am expected to have a college degree as opposed to any private sector job. My husband, who is also a Federal employee, could make about 35% more in the private sector than he makes working for the government. As you say, the money is made up in our health care which costs us $458 per month.

The idea that Federal employees are paid so well is bogus.

A salary determination survey is done every two years for EVERY section of the country to make sure that a Federal employee salary is not out of line with the location they are in.

I do agree that the unions that have cropped up in the federal system is what makes it nearly impossible to get someone who is incompetent out. I would agree that the system needs to be changed in relation to the unions, but to continue to suggest that Federal employees don't deserve the money they earn is wrong also.

The better paying Private Sector jobs are the only ones that require extensive education as opposed to the government jobs that, even the low level ones, require at least some kind of college degree or certificate. So, when the Private Sector jobs start requiring college educations to perform the job and still pay lower wages, is when you can start complaining about it.

and the race to the bottom continues unabated...

America is doomed because we insist on taking money from the poor/middle class folks who earn it by working and continue giving it to Wall St. banker types who take the money for doing nothing.

Sad sad days in America to be sure...

The top of the list should be members of the house and senate who are elegible for a retirement easier than an NFL player waving the ball near the end zone for a touchdown...And the politicians can get it after serving only one term,whether they get indicted or not!....BOTH parties,I have to add...There are actually PRODUCTIVE federal employees....mostly blue collar jobs,or federal military technicians...These are NOT the mil. civilian contractors.These people have to be a member of the Guard or Reserve,and be working in uniform full time, at this point have served 2-4 tours in the Sandbox. These people should be at a whole different level than the politicians who's only military experience is playing the 'Halo' video game with thier kids,or grandkids.(or cellmate). As far as the union for federal employees, AFGE is the most useless piece of crap for a working federal employee(unless you are a senator).The other part of the bait and switch is the military pay/retirement/Tricare....That came up on the Army website...A whole lot of people entered into an enlistment contract with the military,only to be called to a morning update meeting to be told of a "change of structure" in thier retirement policy. This is not the "change" we signed on for,especially since it now looks like the military will be asked to try to clean up another mess OVERSEAS.Watch your enlistments go down.....and wait for the draft......this should be good...We've endured 3-1/2 years of a leader being on the campaign trail instead of fixing anything.Stay home and fix how Washington gets paid.....because we all know,..the next 4 years of campaigning started just after the midterms...........US.Army Disabled Veteran.

I'm in the military and we are not getting a raise this year either. First time ever that the military doesn't get a raise to keep up with inflation and the cost of living. We already make less than the private sector, and should not be lumped in with the bureaucrats. Don't give me that yo[u know what you signed up for crap either. For a president that wants to share the wealth so badly, he seems to have a personal grudge against the military. Glad I didn't vote for him ands can't wait till he's gone.

Cut all the military benefits and save the need for much of the Federal bureaucracy.

The problem right now is the knee jerk reaction world wide to hurt low and middle income families. And if you ever notice, the heads of federal departments will still be making exorbitant salaries, benefits and pensions. How about a pay freeze with a cut back on all of the multitude of federal executive bureaucrats making huge salaries. How about congress cutting back? All of those Republicans that are hypocritically cheap shotting Obamacare need to give up their own socialist taxpayer paid for medical, dental, haircut and pedicure perks.

All those continuing to rant about government workers making twice the salary of private sector employees need to start using your heads... yes, you Mr. Wilson. It is like comparing apples and oranges. The statistics you all keep mindlessly repeating in the USA Today article are designed to inflame the public who can't, or won't think on their own. The statistics used to quantify public salaries include ALL workers... that means $2 an hour servers, cashiers, custodians, burger flippers, etc. The federal government has no such employees... the proper comparison is done by specific occupation. An across the board comparison is horribly flawed and only achieves pissing off people who don't take the time to think about what it is they are being told, and then repeating.

come on now, everyone knows they vote their own salaries, so me thinks they will get a raise

Both the House and Senate have already voted this year, as they did last year, to forgo their raises.

Do some research before you "assume".

Roy Wilson is repeating that Republican sound bite that "federal workers have an average salary that is almost double that of those in the private sector". This is how fuzzy math works ... first think of the enormous number of minimum wage workers and those slightly above minimum wage who work in the private sector. These are the folks who work at fast food and other restaurants, work in retail stores at the malls, etc., etc. Now, how many mimimum wage jobs are there and should there be within the federal government (and this is a serious question ... no snide remarks). Should the person inspecting our meat be paid minimum wage. How about the person who answers your questions about social security. There are few low paying jobs within the federal government, so that automatically skews the numbers to make it look like government employees are overpaid.

By the way, this is not a discussion as to whether these employees are "as productive" or "beneficial", this is a discussion of AVERAGES.

The second issue is that there are some wage earners who actually make far more than the top paid government officials. Think Wall St. bankers, baseball players, corporate executives. Now, these numbers should push the average wage of the private sector up. But the mathematical reality is that these people are so few in total number, compared to the rest of the population that their numbers do not have a large impact on the overall average.

So, when you hear a sound bite, think about it. Often you will find that an easy answer (or simple statistic) is often just plain wrong.

Roy Wilson, your numbers are skewed.

The oft quoted "average compensation" numbers do not account for the disproportionate number of highly educated positions in the federal government. As a biomedical engineer with a master's degree and 7 years of federal service, my pay is only about 55k per year, including the cost-of-living increase to the basic GS pay schedule for the Minneapolis area. Contrast that to the amount I would likely be making in the private sector as an engineer with 7 years of experience and a master's degree ... perhaps 70k.

If you want to throw out numbers for comparison, at least compare apples to apples. I get tired of people using those "average compensation" numbers incorrectly. Many of the lower paying jobs (maintenance, janitorial, etc.) are now contracted out to private companies, further increasing the disparity by reducing the ratio of lower wage positions to higher wage positions.

While I agree that it is nearly impossible to eliminate ineffective workers who have landed a federal job (boy I wish that would change) the compensation is not disproportionate for those of us who do their jobs responsibly and effectively. I do make less than my private-sector counterparts in exchange for better benefits. I just hope there will still be a pension fund in thirty years when I am finally ready to retire. While some of my associates may be incompetent, I at least will have earned my pension.

A freeze in their salaries is fine - but a reduction would be better. Bring them in line with the rest of American workers.

This is a good first step though. Next, slash the military budget by 25% and we will have a fighting chance of getting out of this Depression.

It took 2 years (literally) but Obama finally made a good decision!

The typical compensation for Federal employees is more than double what people in the private sector get paid. Their basic pay averages $81,258 vs only $50,462 in the private sector, but the biggest difference is in pension and health benefits, where the average Federal employee gets $41,791 in benefits vs only $10,589 in the private sector. The TOTAL compensation for a Federal employee is $123,049 (over $10,000 per month), more than double the $61,051 for a Private Sector employee.

There are some serious serious flaws with the USA today article that rightwingers are quoting while they dance over the graves of fellow middle class Americans.

Any study that takes the "average" private sector salary and compares it to the "average" public sector salary is NECESSARILY going to show that the private sector gets paid less. There is a danger in dealing with averages. Why? Because last I checked, minimum wage earners existed exclusively in the private sector.

You can't compare federally contracted military consultant salaries, or NIH medical research principle investigators to fry-cook salaries and expect to form a fair comparison. Federal employees do not make twice their private sector counterparts, and anyone who says otherwise is mistaken or mislead.

A freeze in their salaries is fine - but a reduction would be better. Bring them in line with the rest of American workers.

they are in line with the rest of American workers, at least when you consider similar job descriptions and education levels. Again, you fell into the trap of dealing with averages, and there are no federal fry-cooks (as mentioned above). In addition, I don't remember anyone bitching about how much extra private sector employees got paid during boom times when they dramatically outpaced their public sector counterparts...

Why are you people so excited to accelerate the race to the bottom. Rather than trying to screw your fellow Americans why are you not asking why corporate America can't afford to hire people are increase their benefits/salaries in the midst of their LARGEST CORPORATE PROFIT YEAR EVER ON RECORD!!

It includes the military, we're not getting a raise this year because of it but they won't tell you that. We get a very small raise every year for the increased cost of living and inflation. We are the part of the government that makes less than the private sector, work harder, yet we're getting lumped in with the people making the really big bucks. I guess the states need to freeze fire fighters, teachers, and police officers pay as well. I guess we're overpaid in the public eye.

I find it funny that conservatives still find something to complain about even though the president did something they agree with.

In addition, withdraw the recent pay increase that the Congress got by not voting to not get it. It would be great if Social Security recipients would get an increase every year unless they voted against it.

My husband was a federal employee for 32 years (35, when you count his Marine Corps years including a tour in Viet Nam). I can absolutely guarantee he worked harder than most people in any other job. He was out in the field (woods) every day, 40 below with a higher wind chill and 90+ days in the summer. He made crap wages, probably half of what he would have made working for the private sector in the same position. His benefits were not bad, however, they did not even come close to the benefits in the private sector and did not make up for the low wages.

Yes, I know federal employees who are lazy and are not worth what they are paid. However, I know just as many if not more in the private sector.

Federal employees are not all cut from the same cloth just as private sector employees aren't. Why don't you people who know nothing but hearsay, just be quiet! Not all federal employees are bureaucrats and congressmen! Geez! Talk about a bunch of blowhard, no-nothings!

Federal employees have unions, however, they can NOT do anything to change the wages and benefits. NOTHING! Get your facts straight. Federal employee unions can only help mediate grievances for example.

I certainly hope so...in fact, the senators and congressmen could do with a pay cut...let them live on the same money as those of us retired on SS....hahahahah

No it doesn't!! Should it?? Absolutely. No Congressman should be paid more than a layman here at home. Pay him by the hour so he has to show up at work and put in his 40. Benefits start after 180 days and he has to pay 51% of the cost. Oh yah, the congressman should be rated by a civilian panel of regular people to determine accountability, tardiness, availibility onb the job and excessive expenditures. Monitored as are all of us. By the company and the government. Wow what an absurd system. IThis absurd system needs to be implemented immediately. Anyone in an elected office needs to be evicted after 4 terms.

To: NMEast: where do you get your information in regards to the poor government employees? Whatever it is, you need to burn it. Trash.

Do you all realize that the Postal Service is always excluded from freezes or pay raises targeting "Federal Empliyees"?

NMEast - convenient to forget about that little expense to us taxpayers called YOUR PENSION!

How many private sector jobs pay you until death if you put in 20 years? Those of us working in the private sector are relegated into relying on social security or saving money out of what we earn, as opposed to the millions of government employees that are on permanant pensions.

So Obama is talking about freezing pay...what about freezing/lowering pensions and upping the requirements to qualify? Notice that he never mentioned this prior to the election? He's useless.

Well said Brian.

Now that the wages are frozen, how about cutting staff too. Most government jobs are gravy train positions and can be easily eliminated. Productivity is terrible. The same amount of work could probably be accomplished with half the number of people. Get rid of the bureaucracy too. Most of the jobs are needed to handle the paper work required by the government. Let's begin with the Postal Service. It should be down sized for what it has become...a service for mailing bills and junk mail. It should be turned over to a private commercial mail service.

Every time President Obama tries to do anything the republicans have to be so negative about it. No matter what the President does they will disagree with it, I have not heard one good solution out of the republicans mouths. This pay freeze is a good start. Instead of no no no, I wish they would get behind our President and help out the American people and quit acting like a bunch of babies.

Dave has the best idea !!!!

A paycut for the employees whose wages are way over the top.

Lets not pick on the poor sucker just making a living......They could use a raise !!

Congrats to Obama for doing something meaningful and difficult. Like the Reps asking for halting earmarks, it won't do much to fix the problem but is a good start towards fixing the attitude that will lead us towards making the difficult decisions.

Sensible Vet,

Roy is comparing apples to apples. Those are the averages across this country. Most people are smart enough to know a federal employee in Enid, Oklahoma is going to make less than a federal employee in New York City, just based on cost of living. But when averaged across the US, non military federal employees are making too much, especially on the tax payer dime. They not only need to freeze pay, but slice it by 5% or more, until unemployment in this country is less than 5%.

the USA articlle comparing average salaries of public vs private employees uses one of the simplest methods in the arsenal of "How To Lie With Statistics". That is comparing averages of 2 populations that are not equivalent. Since most of the low wage work required by federal agencies is contracted out, the federal workforce is disproportionately made up of college educated professionals, compared to average private sector employees such as laborers and clerks. It would be much more relevant to compare compensation rates for comparable jobs in private vs public. But conservatives do not seem to care much about validitity or truth. They just want to hammer their tiresome rhetoric over and over under the theory that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will begin to think it's true.

The misinformation is flying around like crazy.

Do you not realize that federal employees pay into a pension account? CSRS employees paid into their pension account the same as everyone pays into social security! FERS which ALL employees have been for several years pay into social security and get NO federal pension unless they save the money themselves, then they get matching funds up to 3%. Have all you whiny, self-centered, mis-informed people ever taken the time to actually look up a fact? NO! Why change now?

Um......

On the issue of federal employees making, ON AVERAGE, more the employees in the public sector is because it is an average.

The way to accurately compare the two is to take equivelent jobs and compare them. You will see that when you do it this way, the public sector pays far better.

The private sector average includes employees from minimum wage up to highly skilled professions. The federal employees are generally more skilled, on average, so it makes sense that the average wage would be higher.

Honestly, turn off the cable news people. Do your own research. Think the issues through on you own, and form your own opinion.

Drop the knee jerk reactions spoon fed to stupid, please.

Start with Congress and Senate the HIGHEST paid PUBLIC SERVANTS of all!!!!!

One very important question - WHY DID THIS TAKE SO LONG? Most Americans have not received a raise or have lost wages over the last 2 years... Goes to show how insulated the Fed is to reality.

This is exactly what I was wondering. And even though it would not make a difference in the overall budget, Congress and the Senate need to learn what it's like actually have to work for a living and raises, not just vote yourself a cost of living adjustment when you feel like it.

Also, there are other ways elected officials are compensated; retirement, travel allowances, etc. that are way beyond what most of us get.

Why are you people so excited to accelerate the race to the bottom. Rather than trying to screw your fellow Americans why are you not asking why corporate America can't afford to hire people are increase their benefits/salaries in the midst of their LARGEST CORPORATE PROFIT YEAR EVER ON RECORD!!

OK - point taken and digested. You're right that we shouldn't be eating each other up. But let me add this: corporate America is hiring people elsewhere but not here. The tax code rewards them for doing that. What a crazy country!

One very important question - WHY DID THIS TAKE SO LONG?

Because a crisis demands something be done. Then we forget about it and do it all over again. The 1929 crash was not supposed to happen again...

This is a step forward. What he really needs to do is CUT their pay - like everyone else.

My Federal salary is only about 10% higher than a public sector person, in New Mexico, for a comparable job would make.

It should be 0% higher.

Big bear you and others who think like you are idiots you just repeating what you have been told. Federal workers pay taxes to. It's real easy to suggest cutting someone else pay but if you have or ever had a job you would not like if your pay was cut by 10% partiicularly if it is small to begin with

what about the people who do not have jobs and that are trying to find work there are still a lot of people with out jobs they need to be thought of here and with the pay freeze for the government this means a fat lot of us will have no job to get with the government for 2 years

We could lay them off and give the jobs to US Owned and managed companies and get the work done fast for a fraction of the cost. Let them get hired by a real employer and see if they spend their time playing on the internet.

Here we go, once again the politicians are hitting the middle income people to fix the budget problems. Any thought on cramping the style of the wealthy?

Joe,

As federal employee, I am unaware of any pension plan that will pay me until the day I die. When eligible I can elect to have my retirement/pension or I can have SS. I do not receive both.

If the government is so emphatic about saving money, why not SS benefits to non-citizens who have never paid into the system, oh that would include members of the presidents family, why not cut all the other federal benefits handed out to non-citizens. If the president is truly interested in cutting cost there are much larger areas for savings besides freezing federal employees pay.

As a federal employee I don't mind a freeze but what good is it if the government continues to provide hand outs to every illegal immigrant who shows up on our door step.

Chef Darrell you need to do a little research. Back in the late 70s or early 80s our own esteemed representative from Texas (Jim Wright) got a bill pushed through Congress and the President signed it into law making their raises automatic. The only way they don't get a raise is if they bring up a bill to vote against a raise for our Representatives in D.C. I don't know the number, but I would be willing to bet that you could count on one hand the number of times they voted not to receive their annual pay raise.

I must agree with Justwonderin. Most all that are bitchin about Federal Workers have no clue. Shame on me I retired as a CPO in the USN 1965-1986 and served overseas 3/4ths of the time. I then took an opportunity to join the Federal Government and retired from Civil Service after 20+ years. I know for a fact while in the Military I nearly left a few times but gutted it our for the benefits, pronised medical care for life (myself and wife), and a annual retirement. The Debt Comission has recommended changing retirement benefits and screwing with promised medical for the MILITARY. Well the Government Senate and House Reps BETTER first change their own fleecing of America retirement plan. The Military had to give at least 20 years of service to receive a annunity. Now Civil Service, NOT ALL Federal workers are or can be covered by a union. It depends on what Civil Service group you work for, i.e. Naval Undersea Warefare Center, (NUWC) Union only covers certain employees stationed in certain localities. The largest raise that most Civil Service employees receive is called Locality Pay Increases. I would like to know if that is part of the freeze? Also are the Senators and House members also covered by this Freeze? They better be. Some of you may know that when the Feds claim there are no COLA increase (the formula is so stinkened anaquated, mid 70's) then the retirement annunities for Civil Service, Social Security, and Military all receive a big fat ZERO increase. But I will give up an average of 2% a year for two years for a total of 12% loss. That is my sacrifice now what are the Elected Officials going to sacrafice?? Bottom line "they Better be aware of the number of retirees/baby boomers that will not sit idle and take it no matter who is in power in the country".

CEC

There needs to be a 10% pay cut right now and no increases until federal worker's pay is equal to what non-governmental civilians get for the same type of job. It's highway robbery for these people to make so much money especially when all of us know how slowly and inefficiently they do their work. They simply do not care if they ever get their work done and many of them find a reason to make the submitter repeatedly redo the submission for missing a non essential thing like a punctuation mark. The rules should be changed so these people can be fired when they don't perform well.

Ever seen a postal employee hurry?

Really this is the best Obama can come up with! Start with your own over paid salary oh and the life long pension you will get when you leave office. Or maybe reimburse America for the exotic family vacations you take every couple months. Don't make rash decisions actually work instead of vacation and fix the problems...

Cutting federal salaries hurts ALOT of middle class employees, airport screeners, people working at social security office etc. So let's make these blue collar workers suffer the brunt of promises you never intended to keep! Also is this any way to repay soldiers who risked their life to defend OUR country? Really?

Cut Welfare and healthcare programs that pay for illegal immigrants healthcare such as medipass...do something about existing problems...don't penalize to people working and running this country. Americans should speak up and out about this. These cuts only hurt the ones working and trying to serve this country.

My sister is a very hard working doctor at a Veterans Hospital in VA and will probably quit due to this. She can get more money in private practice. She likes her job, but there are too many people there who do LITERALLY NOTHING. They are in unions and impossible to fire without a lawsuit. Figure out a way to make a gov't job paid based on skill and performance and fire the slack and the whole system will be much better off with less frivolous spending. That will never happen though.

Agreed! If you haven't paid in you have EARNED nothing! No benenifts to illegals or non- citizens!

Contrast that to the amount I would likely be making in the private sector as an engineer with 7 years of experience and a master's degree ... perhaps 70k.

Really? Then why don't you go find a private sector job? Oh? Because there is none?

Because last I checked, minimum wage earners existed exclusively in the private sector.

And there you have your answer. Are you trying to tell me that all federal labor is skilled? Ever been to a Postal Sorting Facility? Those are minimum wage type jobs with employees getting paid union wages. That is just one example. How many "administrative assistants" are there out there? How many cushy jobs granted to relatives of government officials are given to unqualified people? Drowning, if you don't like capitalism, feel free to move to a country that doesn't have it.

Do you not realize that federal employees pay into a pension account? CSRS employees paid into their pension account the same as everyone pays into social security!

Really? And when can a government employee start collecting his/her pension? At 68 like when I can collect SS? Oh, and is that pension based on what the employee paid into the system or is it based on their retiring salary? (psst...it's the final salary). It is a bloated benefit system that has been abused for way too long.

Federal employees have unions, however, they can NOT do anything to change the wages and benefits. NOTHING! Get your facts straight. Federal employee unions can only help mediate grievances for example.

You're kidding right? The unions do exactly what you said they don't do. They work the benefits in the form of congressional budget approval from their bought-and-paid-for representatives. Mediate grievances? In other words, prevent unqualified personel from ever being fired.

Did anyone watch Christiane Amanpour's interview of Warren Buffet on Sunday? Undeniably he can be considered "wealthy". Yet he freely admitted without any fancy shuffle of funds, he pays less in Federal taxes (the percentage of his income) than his employees. HE agrees the wealthy should be taxed at a higher rate. I believe he mentioned presently it was 30% bracket for his employees and yet he is in the 15% bracket. He doesn't believe the job market would be stymied by a tax increase on the wealthy. Would the "fiscal conservatives" please stop acting as though increasing the percentage the wealthy pay to a fair percentage will be the end of commence and jobs in America? It simply is not true. Money = influence and the 30% bracket is practically taxation without representation because the majority of those in high paying jobs do not pay what the middle class does to support the function of this government. The wealthy has greater influence by donations to political parties to protect their status through the new law allowing unlimited corporate political donations. Services = taxes. Don't cry that the "government" needs to do something about a problem and then say gvt is too big. You cannot have it both ways. Hmmmm under whose "fiscally conservative" watch did the government grow the most in the last 8 years?

They better hope it includes Congress and the Senate; if they vote themselves a raise anytime soon it would not be a good thing.

This is nothing more than a political stunt.....on the eve of his meeting with Congressional leaders...he's not worried about losing the votes of federal workers at the moment....next election is 2 years away. Now he can say.....Hey, I froze Federal Workers Pay, like you wanted, NOW give me the Dream ACT and repeal DADT....and whatever else is high on his list for the lame duck Congress...

Except for those members of Congress who have "lived beyond their means" like so many other Americans, most of them could easily be working for nothing. 261 members out of 535 are multi-millionaires (and some of them became even richer after being elected to Congress by passing bills that aided in their wealth gaining.) What we need to do (and I'm thinking of asking the webmaster of www.faircampaignreform.us to add that constitutional amendment to the list) is to join the Popular Amendment movement and work towards petitioning for a Federal Salary Commission that would be appointed by the President and approved by Congress within the first thirty days of the Presidential term of office. That commission would have 120 days to set the salaries of all federal employees and elected officials for the next 10 years, with elected officials and appointed position salaries taking affect at the beginning of the next election cycle. It would have to be set up that way because of the two year House, four year presidential, and six year Senator cycles. This would be similar to what some states have in their constitutions.

Also, anyone who thinks the President is overpaid is delusional. Bush was in office when his salary was raised from 250K to 400K; I may not have agreed with him on many things, but anyone who holds that office deserves to be well compensated...and yes, I know there are plenty of perks, but there's also a boatload of stress. And when you consider how much folks make for singing, acting, and sporting in this country, 400K is miniscule.

NMEast,

I do not know where you are getting your figures about education requirements in the private sector from. But, I know where I live in the MidWest, one must have a bachelor degree to get a entry level white-collar job that pays a mere $10 a hour. When you have a family of four, that is still below the poverty line.

Thank you, glad to hear from someone with some common sense. Michelle Obama has a spending budget of 6 million....for what????? She isn't any smarter and she isn't any better looking. He and she need to cut their spending and all their vacations, that would be the best way to start, but NO!!!! Heaven forbid they do that. Instead they are still bringing the american people down. Seems like that is their program. Can't wait till he and she hit the road that leads to the door. The sooner they are gone the sooner we will be able to get our country back!!! Cutting the budget needs to start with the President, his wife and so on and so forth cutting their budget's and their spending for starters. Welfare and anything else that helps illegal immigrants needs to stop. They are not special!! Programs like that need to be cut. People already on welfare that have been for awhile need to be looked at. Also, birth control needs to be addressed for all welfare recipients. Just like you said, leave our military alone, they are having hard times and they deserve more if you ask me. We are free because of them.

RanRan,

The base pay for a GS-15, Step 10, which is the highest level in the GS rating system is $129,517. It takes most people in government many, many years of government service to reach that level. Even for executives in scientific and professional fields the top pay (EX Level 5) is just over $145,000. These are the top level positions which require many years to achieve, if one achieves them at all. Compare that with business executives and CEO's in the private sector who are taking home hundreds of thousands or even tens of millions of dollars every year. Do you really think federal workers' pay is excessive?

Roy Wilson is all over this vine and he is WRONG. Civil servants get paid LESS than the private sector on average. But they are an easy target to make an appearance of saving tax payer dollars. Little is done however in curbing government waste in spending. I know because I work in government IT, and see it all the time. Government swallows camels and chokes on knats. Real progress can be made by eliminating spending wastefulness and, as someone else said, cutting the high salaries of Congress. That's where you really get paid. So PLEASE, Roy Wilson, stop perpetuating this MYTH of civil servant pay.

Drowning, if you don't like capitalism, feel free to move to a country that doesn't have it.

I already live in a country that doesn't have capitalism, I live in America...

This is a corporatocracy, or crony capitalism at best...

I completely support this federal wage freeze.

Since the fed has advised seniors that there will be NO cost of living increase for SSI recipients (social security recipients), then FEDERAL WORKERS DO NOT NEED A PAY RAISE.

I just wrote to my Congressman, Senators and Congressman Boehner to let them know I agree with Obama's federal wage freeze.

I urge you to do the same.

My sister is a very hard working doctor at a Veterans Hospital in VA and will probably quit due to this. She can get more money in private practice.

You can let her know that I said - GO AHEAD.

I say the same thing to everyone. If you don't like what you are getting paid, get a new job.

The feds have advised that there is no recession, and will not give seniors cost of living increases.

If that is the case, then federal workers don't need a cost of living increase either.

If you are looking at the "average" of civil servant pay, what is included in that number is a much smaller group of upper level management and appointed Cabinet jobs which get paid way above the average worker, and ridiculously so. This drastically throws off the curve and gets everyone to thinking we're wasting dollars on PEOPLE. I don't think investing our taxes in PEOPLE is ever a waste. However, our benefits get cut like everyone else. Our pay gets frozen. We are off days without pay... all to balance the budget. We aren't as protected as you might think, albeit none of this can be done without legislation. Still Congress quickly passes the legislation to make all this happen for a quick fix, instead of addressing the deeper, more real issues. Most government employees are struggling to make ends meet, while the upper Echelon making the decisions sit in their seats, fat and secure....

RanRan,

you wrote: "corporate America is hiring people elsewhere but not here. The tax code rewards them for doing that. What a crazy country!" You are absolutely right. We are trying to correct a spoiled child’s behavior with another toy. Corporate America has been left with no supervision for over 8 years and now we are surprised that the hissy fit had began.

We all know that the public sector does not pay more than private sector. Let’s compare the salary of the CEO of a corporation to the salary of the CEO of the US. Of course there are exceptions. A janitor cleaning toilets in the private sector will not only make way less than in a public sector but also have no health insurance.

That brings me to my main point. I guess the public sector should start treating its employees as crappy as the private sector. Only the selected few should be allowed to make huge profit while the rest of us have enough to pay the electric bill. Let's keep chipping the pays away until there is barely anything left. And at the same time let’s keep giving loopholes and tax breaks, and tax shelters to these corporations so they can increase their bottom line. And when there is no money left in the budget to pay for the public sector jobs, lets viciously blame the federal employees for making too much money and take away their salaries and benefits because, the working class, does not deserve the little extra. And then, when we take away enough from the working class, let’s give it back to the top 2% because they worked to buy that 3^rd private jet. I do have some extra blood to give if anyone is interested. I cannot pay my medical bills but I will be happy if another billionaire gets that house in Italy he’s been dreaming of since last month.

About 15 years ago I worked a temp job as a bartender for a US Postal conference. Because it was for the Post Office I had to be paid a federal wage. I made $10/hour plus tips. I had never made so much money as a bartender in such a short time. I made $300 in 5 days working 6 hour shifts and that didn't include my tips! My family thought they had died and gone to heaven. Federal workers are way overpaid in comparison to their private sector counterparts!

This type of pay freeze never includes the SES levels, congressional professional staffers, congress or senate members, and specifically excluded other groups. This ends up only impacting the workers - the GS's and never impacts the other groups which are also the highest paid.

Roy Wilson

I do consider you to be well-read and informed. It has always been my understanding that government employees make less than private sector employees.

Because you commented otherwise, please let me know the basis of your understanding.

I would like to be more informed. Thank you.

Thank you, Taylor, for also supporting my point.

RIGHT ON BAYLLIE!!! Thank you!

REALIST....you worked a TEMP job, 15 years ago, for 5 days. As anyone knows, there are always exceptions to the rule, but Please don't use your one experience to generalize a whole sector. I can tell you quite honestly, because I am still loyal to my employer, the Government, to GET REAL... You ain't in Kansas anymore...

I see a lot of response to my post at #1.7, so I'd like to give my own response;

1 - If you have an issue with the source of the data (USA Today), take it up with them.

2 - Yes, Federal workers tend to be better educated than the general public, but so are State and Local employees (teachers, etc.), and they do not have nearly the compensation disparity that Federal employees enjoy.

3 - Any 'wage surveys' are performed by unionized Federal workers, who have a built in bias when deciding whether Federal workers are "overpaid". Also, they do not count the value of the 'benefit' packages, which make up over half of the overall disparity in compensation. One of the reasons given for higher pay for Federal workers is that they have more 'job experience', but this is more a factor of the virtual impossibility of firing an incompetent Federal employee because of union rules, than a result of greater competence.

4 - I doubt that the effect of no 'minimum wage earners' in the Federal workforce is all that significant a factor, since the study by USA Today indicated that the 'average' private sector worker gets paid about $60,000, which is far from minimum wage.

5 - A study was made regarding Federal employees vs private sector employees for COMPARABLE jobs (accountants, lawyers, secretaries, clerks, etc.) and it found that the total compensation for Federal employees was still about 70% higher than in the private sector FOR JOBS REQUIRING COMPARABLE EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE.

I think that it's pretty clear that Federal employees are overcompensated, and that is largely the result of undue union influence. As I indicated in my Post #1.18, I think that the influence of contributions by public employee unions on the political process is a serious 'conflict of interest', especially since the union benefits are paid with taxpayer money. Franklin Roosevelt was a HUGE proponent of unions in the private sector, but he also recognized that conflict and he opposed unionizing public employees.

SALARY TABLE 2009-GS

INCORPORATING THE 2.90% GENERAL SCHEDULE INCREASE

EFFECTIVE JANUARY 2009

http://www.opm.gov/oca/09tables/pdf/gs_h.pdf

Go to the link and look at the actual wage rates. See for yourself.

Roy, come work with me for a day, and I'm pretty sure you'll change your mind. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't adhere to any "survey".

As a matter of fact, why don't we all get off this vine, and GET TO WORK! LOL

Saveoursouls3, My best friend is a consultant running IT projects for the IRS(he is private sector). He travels to DC every monday stays in a ritzy hotel and fly's home on Friday. He makes around 145k a year bonus included. He has told me on several occasions that the people he works for at the IRS are lucky if they work 4 hours a day and they have a salary level higher than his, How does he know this.....well they have offered him 2 positions at a higher level salary than he makes currently. He has turned them both down, for 1 reason. He has a conscience and told me he wouldn't be able to take that much money and not work for it. He knows that if he takes the job and works as hard as he does in the private sector job the people he works with at the IRS will create problems for him. He would rather keep his job at Deloittle and make what he is making.

14 months ago my boss approched me and this is what he said. Little Guy times are down the money flow isn't what it was, so you will have to take a 7% cut in pay to keep your job and I'll need to know something by the end of the day... I have 5 applicants waiting to see if you will take the cut... Oh and by the way we're now going to combine your sick leave with your vacation leave... On a positive note my weekly tax burden isn't as much... I don't get sick... Keep your head up America, soon up will be the only way left...

For the first few years of my husband's federal government employment, we were eligible for food stamps! Yes, food stamps! AND, that was with me working a part-time job! Had we tried to exist on his salary alone, we would have been eligible for WIC, fuel assistance, etc. High paying job? Sure. Hubby has an associate degree, but if he had a four year degree, his top salary would not be more than about $124,000 yr, not some of the outrageous sums suggested above! Look up the pay schedules, they are online. After 30 years of government service (yes, at this pay it is considered SERVICE!) continually working very hard, and taking extra classes to take on more responsibility, he is making $54,000 and is a GS9 - with an associate degree, there are very few cases in which a federal employee can get beyond a GS9. A friend he went to school with (same degree) is working for the private sector, he makes $83,000 and his benefits? Far exceed my husband's. He doesn't pay anything for his health insurance!

Of course, according to your figures, I guess he could have retired at 45 with a pension of $400,00 a year. But go ahead, think whatever you want, don't let facts or the truth get in the way.

LittleJoePeep... In your argument lies the answer... He goes to DC. And as anyone else can tell you, DC is our OZ. You can't compare it to the rest of the world. It's apples and oranges, and it ain't real. I still stand by what I contend.

Or try these gov. pay tables adjusted by locality. I think alot of private sector professionals would be lucky if they are equal to a grade 6. A Dental Assistant is probably knocking down Grade 4 or 5. And I wonder what the job descriptions is for Grade 15 Step 1 only makes about $105,000.00 to $110,000.00 / year.

http://www.opm.gov/oca/09tables/pdf/salhr.pdf

The neat thing is you can see how you personally stack up against Gov. Salaries.

SaveourSouls3 "Roy, come work with me for a day, and I'm pretty sure you'll change your mind. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't adhere to any "survey"."

No offense intended but please look at Post #1.91, and then answer the question;
Are you at work? And if so, why are you on this vine?

5 - A study was made regarding Federal employees vs private sector employees for COMPARABLE jobs (accountants, lawyers, secretaries, clerks, etc.) and it found that the total compensation for Federal employees was still about 70% higher than in the private sector FOR JOBS REQUIRING COMPARABLE EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE.

WHO did the study and WHEN was it published and HOW can we verify?

Oh yeah ant the tables are for base pay and overtime pay. No benefits included.

Roy, see post 1.95. LOL The only reason I am here is that I was briefly reading through the comments out of curiousity, and was so strongly compelled to respond dispell all the myths going around. Ever felt passionate enough about something that you wanted to do your part to correct it??? Or are you just here to throw out skewed facts just to see who will buy it?

But I can tell this isn't the medium to try and correct anything and have since wasted valuable time and mental energy. But I will say it again. You are WRONG.

I am a Network Engineer by day. I wait tables in a restaurant at night. Quite the double life for someone who has a cushy government job. Have a good day, my friend...

You all are doing it again. Your "fight" is with the political side, don't take it our on the federal worker. Why aren't you screaming loader at the people we bailed out and the millions of dollars they made and continue to make on our dime. The public out cry should not be against the federal empolyee. You did the samething in the 1980's when Social Security was in trouble. The federal employee, again, made an example of and changed the federal retirement system. Why aren't you comparing federal workers to large corporation salaries and benifits, seems a little more representative. If you don't like the federal employees benefits, why aren't you comparing them to teachers, railroad workers - they don't pay social security. Want to talk pensions, maybe you should take a closer look at union pensions + they collect social security. Federal workers cannot collect both. Keep pointing the fingure; but point at the right person - POLITICIANS. GET OUT AND VOTE!

And one last point.... Like someone else on the vine said, why are we all trying to race each other to the BOTTOM. Hold your government representatives accountable and stop letting them get away with making "symbolic gestures" to help the economy. Hold them to something REAL and TANGIBLE.

It is my understanding that the congress and senate voted themselves a pay increase. Please tell me that I'm mistaken!!

What bull---more middleclass reduce income! Next SS so the Elite get Richer and keep more and more!

Hey people get off of Fox Un-News and if you ask me, you all are nuts, just stupid and/or brain dead teabagger fools.

Most if not all the highest performing countries today are in the EU. These countries have a strong middleclass and the Elites are not being big pigs on getting most of the income pie.

Soon the middle and lower classes in America will stop defending the Elite America. Let the Elites and republicans teabagger fight in the middle-east---Boy will we loss!

Also you teabagger should learn what Socialism is as compared to social programs. America's largest social program is the Military, which is mostly used to protect the Elite's interest in the world at the cost of the middle and lower class blood.

The next largest social program is all the reduced tax rates the Elite are given. Such as CEOs that get most of their yearly many $millions income in stock type transactions and only pay 15% federal tax with no money taken-out for SS, medicare, unemployment and so-on. Plus such things like Wall Street money managers who billion dollar yearly incomes are tax at the 15% capital gain rates. In-addition they can loss $100s of billions and still get their billion dollar income. What-about Exxon who net-net income for 2009 was near $20 Billion and paid ZERO Federal income tax, plus got cash back.

I traveled to many countries and America is no longer for Americans unless you are one of the Elites.

Who won the Wars with their blood that keep America free in WW1, WW2, and so many others---The middle and lower class Americans!--Who got rich from the wars of America--the Elites!

Now I suggest you look in the mirror instead of Fox Un-News, and read and travel and open your thinking based on what is left of your brain power to learn Reality 101.

Think, since prices on all products have gone up and the Middle and lower class incomes and bennies DECREASED and Federal income taxes inflows DECREASED and the GNP INCREASED---would your little brain power think that the Elites are eating like pigs all of the pie of America.

This is the problem!

Good Job Obama...cut that deficit.

Obama 1 Republicans 0

Grade 1 - Step 1 Lowest Paid Federal Employee about $17,500.00 / year 40hr / week no OT

Grade 8 - Step 5 Middle of the road Federal Employee about $42,000.00 / year 40 hr/ week no OT

Grade 15 - Step 10 Highest on the scale about $127,000 / year basically a salary position OT exempt.

This is the 2nd. yr. in a row that S.S. hasn't received a COLA. I understand & my husband & I, luckily, can afford these. But MANY who are trying to LIVE on it aren't so fortunate. What pisses me off so much is that there HAVE been cost of living increases. Anyone who hasn't noticed that petrol, groceries & doctor's office appts. have gone up are either blind or rank stupid. I sincerely hope B.O. does give the $250 to each retiree S.S. receipent to help alievate what we ALL know if going on no matter HOW they "scewer" the numbers.

The Federal Employees are part of our country too & should share in the "pain" almost everyone is going through to at least some extent. For those who ask why they are even unionized when unions went from @ 32% in 1960 to @ 12% now-mostly only in government-the answer is very easy: to get & keep workers, govern-State, Local & Federal-HAD to offer competitive wages & bennies or else they lost out to the good paying private sector who now are all off-shored & no longer available. The result is that a non-profit-govern.-offers bennies, salary, & that once ubiquitous promise of safety & dignity in retirement-DEFINED PENSION BENEFITS!

It ain't rocket science, folks.

Oh doesn't he look so tough dealing with labor now. Notice that he is only dealing with unions that can not strike. Reagan took the mustard out of any power play the federal worker unions ever had. What a bunch a laydown union reps if Ive ever seen any. Hey MTC, AFL/CIO, NFFE, AFGE, since it was you that went out on a limb and told all your federal workforce to vote for him......How do you like him now?

It kind of hurts when you get what you asked for doesn't it?

Touchdown re: 1.105

I find it very hard to imagine an EXEMPT employee making only $17.5K a year ANYWHERE.

What is the source of your information.

V Bevis

I completely agree that the cost of living has increased. I track gasoline prices (because I track my car's miles per gallon). It HAS SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED in the past 2 years.

I think the feds need to revisit their definition of the bundle of goods used to determine whether the cost of living has increased.

Nonetheless, if the seniors receiving SSI aren't getting a COLA increase, then federal employees should not get one either.

Not only should Congress not take their 'automatic' increase in salary, they should rescind the raise they took last year. Let them feel the same pain as the rest of us who don't get increases every year. And while they are at it, if the health care is so great for the rest of us, why don't they take for themselves instead of the plush one they currently have - or do they consider themselves too good for what's o.k. for the rest of us.

This is a JOKE! my Brother last year was a Government contractor made great money GREAT! Then his job was insorced and he had to reapply as a GS 11 Only making 57K a year. So he gets the GS job (as it was his job for 5 years prior to being insorced as a contractor) and now they (obama) will not let him succeed in the GS world? That is some stupid Stuff. Gates Wanted to cut alot of contract jobs as they cost money so they in sorce and now that they have in sorced the people who got shafted on that end are being held up on the other end. He took a 20K pay cut to have his job which he Loves I Guess?

But Now they tell him you will sit a t57K a year for the next 2 years all the while he is struggeling His bebes are not even that good!? has anyone looked at the GS pay scale so they know what they are talking about? They are just trying to cripple more people. flat out! that why i will stay In the Army

Karen,

I did not say the $17.5 K was exempt. I just took the hourly rate for a 40 hour week with no overtime for 52 weeks to get an approximate yearly wage. The information came from

http://www.opm.gov/oca/09tables/pdf/salhr.pdf

click on the link.

That should include ALL!!!! the government. Congress and state. I feel we "the people" seem to making all the sacrafices. If I was able to vote for my own pay raise..... DUH!!!!

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Monday to freeze pay for federal workers over the next two years, one of several "very tough decisions" coming from the administration as it attempts to rein in government spending and address the looming federal deficit.

Freezing pay of Federal Employees over 2 years DOES NOTHING AGAINST A NEARLY $ 14,000,000,000,000 deficit !!!

Heya, Mr. Obama.....how about cutting 25 % of government workers ?? Now that would be a good start.

While you are at it.....why not TERMINATE all your CZARS and their staffs. BTW, Mr. Obama, who is paying the salaries of these folks ???

Yes - cut the congress and senate - they are not doing anything useful anyway. Make them pay for thier own health insurance (like most of us). Stop sending "aid" all over the world. Get immigration under control - stop paying for thier medical and other benfits - maybe if we didn't make it so good for them over here they would stop coming and draining our resources. Stop giving tax breaks to the rich - the idea that it will "trickle down" to the rest of us does not work. If a company wants to outsource services overseas - then let them pay a higher tax. Keep our jobs here and our money here.

Rick,Ky
Cap thier Health Benefits for the Familys also!

As explained before what Congress gets costs $42 per month. This is the last vestige of what President FDR introduced for All US Citizens, Universal Health Care for all US Citizens. This was done by eliminating the Insurance Corporations out of the Medical Profession. By doing this the costs dropped by 80%. This is what needed to be done, not the farce pushed on everyone by President Obama.

Decreases cost 80% (last part of video 1:40) by Doctor David Ores, New York.1:45

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5247963n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

mountainmike-1199289 people are not cheap shotting the President on his Health Care. When someone does something stupid, what would you call that, bullying. Well, do not do stupid things that impact others around you. Unless you want to win the Darwin Award.

This so called President Obama Health Care has nothing to do with actually helping anyone except the Insurance Industry ($67 Billion USDs), Medical Device Industry ($20 Billion), Pharmaceutical Industry ($23 Billion) due to this new Law, those are the expected profits as listed in the President Obama Health Care Reform as possible new sources of additional revenue. Go read the President Obama Health Care Reform.

President Obama's closed door meeting long before the idea was introduced to US Congress.

Unlikely ally of health care reform: business
Insurers, drug companies came on board early and may profit from it

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35989945/ns/business-us_business/

RanRan - Because a crisis demands something be done. Then we forget about it and do it all over again. The 1929 crash was not supposed to happen again...

Research the Glass Steagall Acts and who signed the Laws that removed the Glass Steagall Acts. The Glass Steagall Acts made Illegal those causes of the 1907 Depression and 1929-1939 Great Depression. From 1933 to 2000 the Glass Steagall Acts worked. From 1907 to 1933 the attempts to "Regulate" the causes failed, so the Glass Steagall Acts made the causes Illegal. This is why President Obama, less harsh attempts to "Regulate" these causes will fail, as repeating the same mistakes (1907 to 1933) and expecting a different result. Instead of President Obama doing what is known to work.

Until the Glass Steagall Acts are reinstituted, you can expect another 60-100 Trillion USDs "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Financial Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Credit Crisis", etc.. As it is known that the next "Crisis" will be 54.6 Trillion USDs.

TexRat - Agreed! If you haven't paid in you have EARNED nothing! No benefits to illegals or non- citizens!

Agreed. Add that Congress cannot rob these funds like it is there own piggy bank. It is our money not theirs that we have been putting into these benefits. A larger scale version of President Eisenhower's successful "Operation Wetback" needs to be done to apprehend and deport the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens in the US. States can no longer afford to spend over 1/8th of their annual budgets on Illegal Aliens, like Bankrupt Illegal Alien Harbor State of California spends over $10 Billion USDs each year of the yearly Budget of $85 Billion USDs.

Gee that was swell of you Odumbo! Is that supposed to impress us! You gotta do better than that.

What I would like to know is why some parts of the government have been getting cost of living increases while others have not. Cost of living increases for everyone that is paid by the government should be the same. How can you give federal employees a COLA increase but then deny an increase to people on social security. Either the cost of living went up or it didn't. Also, how can you give one group a larger percentage increase than another. The cost living change is the same for everyone, so why should military get a different COLA than civil service employees, than social security recipients, than congress. A law needs to be passed setting a uniform method of determining the change in the cost of living and everyone being paid by the government should get that same amount.

So where are the federal worker's union leadership now? I bet they wish they didn't vote for his arse now. The union leadership is probably doing what they have always done. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. They actually get paid not to file greviences and have joined into a private club and written agreement with management. How can they be in bed with management and still represent the workers? THEY CANT.

I think its about time that including the President and staff and Congressmen also need to take a cut

in their wages like those have already on SS. This is the 2nd year with no pay raise and prices are going up around us also. I am on fixed income.

May I ask that Congress and the Senate get cuts as well? I mean they are making more money than I am. I am one of the thousands of UNEMPLOYED AND CANNOT FIND A JOB AS THERE ARE NONE! Let the senate and congress live like I do and see hoe they like it! Monthly social security for my husband does not stretch very far. making house payment and barely making utility bills. extra money for saving what is that? retirement? nonexistent! live our way for 1 year and see what can be done with the budget then!

The base pay for a GS-15, Step 10... Compare that with business executives and CEO's in the private sector who are taking home hundreds of thousands or even tens of millions of dollars every year. Do you really think federal workers' pay is excessive?

That's not the best comparison. GS-15 to middle management might be a better apple-to-apple comparison.

Working for the government whether for better or for less is still a gravy train compared to most private sector jobs. No lay-offs. No worrying about out-sourcing. No plant closings. And the pay checks never bounce...yet.

All the jobs money after the bank bailout went to the public sector - that pissed off a lot of people.

I think its about time that the government cap all wages including the President and all Congressmen but knowing they already got their 3% pay increase the first of Oct, 2010. This is my 2nd year with out a pay raise in my SS. Its killing me and others like me, I am just barely hanging in there.

Oh no or the president either. They aren't civilian government employees. He has increased the number of people making over 150,000 per year in the last 2 years. This is just another Obama smoke screen to make sure people think he is trying.

Brian-531678 said:

does this include Congress and Sanate?????????

I have been saying for a long time now that since Congress can’t seem to “solve” these EPIC budgets deficit problems – which under the TRUSTED STEWARDSHIP OF CONGRESS, were ALLOWED to happen, therefore any and all pay raises they have coming should be frozen for a “minimum” of 2 years. Furthermore…unless and until this same bunch can guarantee available and affordable healthcare for all American citizens, that they should ALL be cut off from ANY kind of taxpayer paid insurance….. then sit back and watch how fact at least these 2 problems gets resolved.

Why should the American citizens CONTINUE to pay for the careless, stupid mistakes and mis-calculations of people in Congress, (because it ain’t their monies) who we’ve entrusted to handle our business – while Congress who caused and allowed this mess suffer no consequences, but sit back on the sidelines and call us “lazy”, or “being druggies” because our lives are being destroyed directly because of all of the really bad economic decisions THEY ALLOWED to happen.

You want to stop Congress from sitting back and starting wars with other countries? Remove the age cutoff or health requirements, and require that EVERYONE is eligible to serve in the military….. beginning with the ones who started the wars in Congress. None of the members of their families or extended families can be excluded. Let’s see just how “brave” they are as they’re trying to “run for cover” of heavy artillery in their “lazy boy” roller chairs.

REQUIRE THAT EACH AND EVERY CONGRESS MEMBER BE PUT IN THE SHOES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DAILY LIVES…. AND LET’S JUST SEE HOW “EASY” THEY WEATHER IT. Let Congress – who has caused and allowed these unprecedented messes to happen either because of their POWER-HUNGRY, GREED, INCOMPETENCE, OR JUST PLAIN OLD “WE PLAY POLITICS WITH YOUR LIVES… WELL, JUST BECAUSE WE CAN.

WE THE PEOPLE DESERVE BETTER THAN THE BS WE’RE GETTING FROM CONGRESS.

Now a 25% pay-cut, would be nice

I have to tell you that was exactly what popped into my mind. I think this is a no brainer. I would love to see the republicans response to this - especially if it affects them. Can't wait to get their reaction. I hope Americans are watching and listening. Perhaps if some federal workers were put out and had to go on unemployment, perhaps these liars would sing a different tune.

Rick,Ky

You sound like the typical local gas station cashier, I left the back woods of Kentucky because of no real goal in life slugs like you. You have no desire to improve your life's lot, you are comfortable with your shack and 12 pack. When the freebies dry up you and your lot strike out at those that pursued a better life. One that requires education , sacrifice and hard work. Boo Hoo for you.

I work for the federal government. I used to work for private industry. I do my best to encourage productivity and efficiency, but it's frustrating. There are MANY deadbeats that work for the government, producing nothing, yet reaping really nice salaries. And it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to fire them. We not only need to freeze, or might I suggest, CUT federal salaries......we need to remove all the tape and restrictions that protect deadbeat government employees from being terminated! Do away with the waste and hire those who are productive!

Karen in Los Angeles "5 - A study was made regarding Federal employees vs private sector employees for COMPARABLE jobs (accountants, lawyers, secretaries, clerks, etc.) ......WHO did the study and WHEN was it published and HOW can we verify?"

Here is the link.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/237000-not-sustainable-skyrocketing-compensation-for-federal-employees

The average base pay figures for each study are somewhat different because one study shows all Federal employees, while the other study just shows Federal employees with comparable private sector jobs, but the average annual cost of a Federal employee's benefits package (about $40,000 per year, vs about $10,000 in the private sector) is consistent in both studies.

Wouldn't it be nice if EVERYONE could retire at age 50 with about 80% of their base pay plus health benefits for life?

Thank you Roy. I appreciate it. I will read the link later today.

I agree with you that the federal workers do not deserve a cost of living increase.

It was a federal worker who determined that seniors should not get a cost of living increase because there is no recession.

I guess that they did not realize that they would not get a cost of living increase either. TOO BAD.

There is no recession per YOU federal worker. Here is a tiny violin for you federal worker.

PS - I am in the wrong job. If I had a federal job, I could have retired this year at 80% of my salary because I became 50 this year. As you know, I am being sarcastic. I find this to be as outrageous as CA pensions. They only have to be 55.

Roy - I'm sending your link to Obama, Boehner, BIG MOUTH PELOSI (because she's still in power), Reid and my senators, Congressman.

Not only should they not get a COLA increase, their salaries and benefits packages need to be reduced.

I DO NOT AGREE that my tax dollars fund their retirement. I want my money to fund MY retirement.

Good Link, Roy!!!! Thanks for posting!!!

Karen and Roy...here's another link regarding Utopian public retirements.....

SUPER-SIZED PENSIONS, AND A DOOMSDAY SCENARIO

http://redtape.msnbc.com/2010/11/in-new-york-a-44-year-old-firefighter-retired-with-a-101000-a-year-pension-for-life-near-chicago-a-parks-commissioner-q.html#posts

Actually they get around it by giving themselves a larger budget expense,for their offices which allows them to pay their families for BS like Pelosi paying her husband $100,000.00 a year for advice.

Wow, stormerF! Does Pelosi really do that? I didn't know. I see there are many things coming to the public's attention lately. And the Rangel/Waters cases are just amazing! How did they get away with all that???

When has government ever had good morale? Can't get any worse.

I'm not paying these people to be happy, only do the job they are being overpaid.....

Obama did not come up with this, the Republicans did in their "pledge to America". Read the article and read their pledge.

If you read the article, it states that this proposal was put forth by the House Republicans.

It looks like Obama has reached across the aisle and gave them what they wanted.

Let's see if the Reps will do the same, and vote to give still-unemployed Americans extended benefits.

Their attitudes already suck, for the most part, so it doesn't really make a whole lot of difference.

What could the President do to please you, in lieu of this savings opportunity?

It was the republicans idea and they set it forth in their Pledge to America, NOT Obama.

Poor morale for receiving regular salary without pay raises?

It could be worse, they could loose their jobs like a lot of private sector employees.

But you know, you're right, lets improve the morale of federal employees and give them all $400,000 per year... oh wait...

Barney, Barney, Barney ... Poor moral of government workers is your concern? Now, that's funny, I don't care who said it!

Barney

Try going 3 years without a pay raise (and even a 10% reduction in pay)! You'll make it. It isn't easy, but you will adjust. We did!

Lobo you realize that Obama did this on his own 2 years ago right? Clearly it's not just what the republicans wanted.

I also agree with independent.

barney, your the ones that should pay. Your comment high lights the problem no accountability to the tax payers.

Thank you. At least one other person gets it. Its messed up that people are upset at the federal workers who have nothing to do with what the politicians are doing. We are at our jobs working hard everyday, paying out taxes and you are happy that our money (which we earn) is being frozen. Why don't you take a look at the leeches who are sucking this country dry from the inside. Welfare and Unemployment are a joke. Two years to find a job is unreal. You take what you can get and you earn your way. I am completely disgusted with what this country has become. People wanted change. Well you got what you asked for. A president who is completely unqualified to hold the office and embarasses his people. Bravo Voters. Hopefully you do a little more research before you vote next time. Barney-552314 thank you for having a clue.

Sorry I don't get it Barney. How is freezing the pay of Federal government's already obscenely overpaid employees hurt morale? These people are laughong all the way to the bank because the pay which on average is close to double their counterparts in the private sector, should actually be cut back! I don't feel sorry for the "overpaid" admin pool of the DC Beltway and nobody should. I am not saying anything that's not true. The entire system is corrupt and self-serving/destructive all in one. The pay freeze is a joke considering the unrestricted hiring of the federal government at obscene rates. The unions have more control over the system now than is healthy for this or any democracy all thanks to this "Fall of Ancient Rome" Redux that was started by Bush and exploded under Obama. The End Is Near or the End Is Nearly Going To Destroy America... take your pick. Ending of runaway government spending is a better option than ending America as we know and love it.

Are you Barney Frank? Anyway, you're kidding right? Poor morale in the Federal Government? How many times have you heard a Federal employee (mailman, IRS, etc.) tell you "Hey, we can't do it that fast. We're the government."? How many times have you heard an employee in the Public Sector (Best Buy, Target, etc.) give you that for an answer to your question? The Feds have ALWAYS had poor morale, because they seem to have instant tenure, maintain stellar benefits, and get pay increases that are consistently favorable- even during a bad economy when the Public Sector is laying people off! Some facts: This is the first time in history when there are more $100K jobs in the Federal Government than the Private Sector. As of now, the average Annual Standard of Living pay increase for the Private Sector is 1%, while it's 3% for the Feds. Keep in mind that it is OUR money that is paying the salary and benefits for these people. It's time that the Government begins to mirror the society it governs. And it doesn't matter whether Republican or Democrat, a great idea is a great idea. This one was out of the park!

I'm sure everyone outside the federal government who had their pay slashed or those who were laid off are ecstatic. This should have been done 2 years ago.

The volume of USPS mail has gone down dramatically and the USPS is losing billions. Now's the time to consolidate branches and eliminate redundancies.

"just when i think this guy could not possibly make any more mistakes he comes up with this; just what we need; poor morale in the federal government; the workers should not have to pay for irresponsible government policy"

I think he realizes that federal employee wages and benefits are beginning to overtake standard business wages and benefits which does sent a good example in a downturn. I hope this extends to congress benefit packages as well. Mistakes in both parties have supported the larger central bankers and bailed out their bad habits.

As far as federal employees paying for irresponsible government policy; Why not? We do...

Obama had attempted to do the same thing last year, but the Democratic house and senate passed legislation for the increase anyway, so its really not a matter of the president making this happen. The house and senate have the power to make it happen.

Barney552...Anyone who knows squat about salary compensation knows that the US is at the end of its rope in what it can pay from the top down. Anyone who knows squat about salary compensations knows that the only Trickle Down is the trickle down effect of every top CEO salary who makes annual demands for more, more, more. When it comes to paychecks, whose idiot idea was it that the sky's the limit? That's irrational and unrealistic.

The eonomy is bad because the overprivileged think they are entitled to annual increases. No. They aren't and until Boards of Directors get the message that the only way to pay those astronomical salaries is to sell the company, they won't learn that when the CEO demands a few hundred billion in salary, the trickle down is the demand below him in rank. That's not economically feasible into another quarter century.

Federal employees salaries are funded in part by those who work in private industries. If federal employee unions continue to make annual salary increase demands, where is all of that money supposed to come from to cover this insatiability? The foreign workers who now are doing the lion's share of American business?

Barney - so what branch of the federal govt. do you work for??? Low-moral fed workers are everywhere, just go to the post office...

I work in a small local govt. setting. We haven't had any kind of raises in 2 years and everyone from top to bottom have also had to take furlough days, which amounts to an annual 4-5% pay cut. Ain't nobody loosing their homes over it. Get real, dude.

Please realize that there are LOTS of government employees who are not "overpaid". Some of us are really struggling to pay the bills just like the private sector. Imagine trying to operate your business with drug dealers outside your shop. The Drug Enforcement Administration is a government agency. Kiss your kids as they go off to school and know the government is doing it's best to keep dealers out of their schools. Not all the government are fat cats. Some of us are working hard behind the scenes to keep this nation safe.

American Lobo, are you suggesting 99 weeks being paid not to work isn't enough? For crying out loud, as long as the checks keep coming why would anyone look for a job?

There are of course many, many people who would love to find work but for whatever reason cannot, but the statistic on people finding work in the last month of UC (don't know it specifically or I'd share it; perhaps someone can provide the info) is very high. Extending benefits is a DISINCENTIVE TO FIND WORK.

And BARNEY, everyone needs to pay up for the problem we're facing as a nation, not just the most productive, the entrepreneurial class. Jeez Louise, where do you folks come from? What is the color of the sky in your world?

And neither should the working class who bust their butts working instead of sitting in oversized leather chairs from the comforts of their high class offices emailing their co-workers christmas cards

What about the private sector's moral? Many have not received any raises for 3 years due to the economy. To watch govt. workers get regular raises, (paid for by us) regardless of the economy is disgusting. Frankly, we don't care about their morale. Level the playing field and get rid of the dead weight in govt.!

I'm a Federal employee and the freeze and pay cut should be applied to the top 50% of the gov payroll including congress. The bottom half are the only ones who do anything. Capping the upper half would actually make our morale go up. We're pretty sick of seeing the same crap rampant in the private sector...6 figure 'bonus' monies going to administrators and department heads. Hard working, honest public servants do not deserve to be punished for the failures of their upper management.

ewent - good post about company boards.

I do take some exception with your comment on...

Federal employees salaries are funded in part by those who work in private industries

The taxpayer funds it all. Taxes and fees paid by businesses are just passed on to the end user (taxpayer). We may not see it directly, but the end user pays it just the same.

I do find it interesting that we pay taxes to support the wages earned by government employess and they in turn pay taxes on what we pay them

You do realize that this was a Republican idea... he just decided to do it first.

norm903 - What I find interesting is that as more people fall off the unemployment rolls and the reported numbers decline will the politicians point to that decline and say that their plan is working??

Barney,

It would help to thouroughly read the article before posting about it. If I'm not mistaken, it clearly states that this was the Republican's mid-term platform. If your going to try and bash Obama, at least try and do it with something of merit. Your post just made you look incompetent, inept, and incapable of reading comprehension.

American, the unemployment report is about NEW applications, not old ones. So, while the unemployment RATE reflects people on or off the roles the trend is clearly down for new applications, a very important trend. Not sure if this was a good explanation or not, but you get the point, there is credence in both our povs.

Thoroughly....my bad

I'm sure everyone outside the federal government who had their pay slashed or those who were laid off are ecstatic. This should have been done 2 years ago.

Bull@!$%#. Why does everyone seem so intent on accelerating the race to the bottom.

Oh, so the private sector doesn't pay their employees a liveable wage nor do they provide for medical benefits anymore, so lets SCREW the public sector (those who gave up salary for job security) and lets bring everyone down to the slave wage labor demands of the corporatocracy...

You people are nuts. Why is your ire not directed at the corporate overlords who CAUSED the recession, continually CUTS your pay, and now CUTS your benefits.

Why isn't the question "why doesn't the private sector pay their employees more, in this time of record bonuses for the top brass and record corporate profits?" and not "how can we screw more middle class Americans who happen to be federal workers into being just as poor as our corporate overlords demand?"

Again, you people are nuts. And for the record, I am NOT a federal employee...

Actually, the FY 2011 budget that Obama submitted back in March that neither body of Congress has yet passed a Budget Resolution for, called for a three year executive branch freeze. So, this is just a reiteration of that call for a freeze and making it a full executive branch freeze while Congress moves at its snail's pace on passing appropriations bills. You can bet your bottom dollar that Congress won't freeze the salaries of their employees, nor will the Judicial branch. Of course, with the Senate still holding up the nominations for many of those higher salary positions in the executive branch, I guess they are doing their part to control spending, while the agencies can't get their work done due to shortage of staff.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/index.html

If you really want to know federal salaries, go to this link and you can open pdf files for every year back through 1994.

http://www.opm.gov/oca/10tables/index.asp

As far as public vs. private salary comparisons, I would question most of the "stories" and their sources. When doing salary comparisons, you need to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. See the link to the WP story.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/11/federal_salaries_fall_behind_p.html

Drowing Grover...Let me know when the government starts to offshore your job to an employee in India, Mexico or China who'll do your job for half of what you get paid and who doesn't get your government blue ribbon pension or healthcare benefits. Now, you know why employees can't "demand". Demand and your job ends up in a foreign country.

What, are you saying that government workers can do a worse job? Please, if you don't like it no one is forcing you to stay, just quit! I didn't think so!

Drowing Grover...Let me know when the government starts to offshore your job to an employee in India, Mexico or China who'll do your job for half of what you get paid and who doesn't get your government blue ribbon pension or healthcare benefits. Now, you know why employees can't "demand". Demand and your job ends up in a foreign country.

Ah yes. So the problem is "private firms outsource our jobs to India/China" and your solution to the problem is to "reduce the wage of government employees furthering our economic decay."

How exactly is your "solution" doing ANYTHING to solve the very real problem you mention?

Again, the problem is that corporate America is greedy and trying to destory the American economy in the ever-accelerating race to the bottom and your solution is to grease the skids for them. Brilliant!

And again, for the record, I am not a federal employee.

For the Union questions. I am by no means a union supporter, but the govt workers need the unions. You think for a second that private sector is bad when it comes to abusing workers, the govt is twice as bad. My wife has had to pull the union in more times than I can count to stop from being abused for time and benefits. These are all contract based rules, but are constantly dismissed by higher level management. Most of these rules are standard labor practices, applicable to all business private and public.

Point is that the unions are paid mostly from the workers, and the contracts are not that outrageous. Govt has a long history of abusing labor, and as such is saddled with the unions.

Think of it this way, if your job refused to pay travel, told you that you would need to work weekends with no extra pay, or demanded that you work unpaid after hours, would you? I certainly would not, why let a company steal from you.

As for pay, there has been no increase in COL, so there should be no increase in pay, i fully agree with this. On a side note, I refused govt jobs because the pay was so terrible. Had they paid me a competitive salary, they could have dropped the two people they currently have in the last position I turned down and saved a ton in benefits and other compensation. My wife makes less as a govt employee than she would in the private sector, but has the pension on the back end, so she stays. Remove that pension and she will jump to the private sector.

All in all, it balances out. The pay increases though do need to stop for a bit, there is no increase in COL, no increase in pay, especially if the agency can't make budget.

DrowningGrover, I LOVE your common sense. Wish I could give you more votes. AND for the record, I AM a government employee.

thanks for the kind comments SoS3...

AND for the record, I AM a government employee

you commie bastard ;)

Really? What hit did the elderly take? Not to mention that the 14 trillion in debt that we face is the direct result of the "old people's" spend happy ways. Medicare has gotten boosted, checks were cut for no reason but to stop all of you whining, and we fall further in debt.

That generation helped to get us in this mess, no time now to try and skip out of it. No COLA because there was no change in the cost of living last two years. Somehow that is outrageous? Following the law? Your generation stole money from SS and now you expect the gen X and Y'ers to pick up the tab on that mess?

Either help with the problem or stop being a problem. Sacrifice with the rest of us.

Bill M - I guess you've not noticed how the price of food and energy has gone up significantly in the past year, yet, no COLA for Seniors. To say otherwise shows you must let your wife buy everything. Everyone is looking for sales now as the price of food is getting out of hand.

BTW - Most are sacrificing already, time Federal workers joined the rest of us.

Bill M NY Explain how your parents/grandparents "stole money from SS" as you put it. I would like to turn them in for fraud.

....They could cut the deficit a ton if they stopped giving Social Security and Medicare to the two million retired who still have incomes of over $250,000 yearly...... John and Cindy McCain have a combined annual income of over $650,000 yet cash a $2,300 Social Security check each month.

Contrary to what many believe, Social Security was never intended to be supplimental income or a savings account to help maintain a current lifestyle...Like home and auto insurance it was intended as a safety net incase a desaster arose, but if one does not your premiums are not refunded...............Social Security was intended for those who spent a lifetime working in search of the American dream, but did not find it, and for those who could not work or search at all............Imagin what would happen to the home and auto insurance industry if they had to pay back the years of premiums to those who's homes were never damaged or destroyed, or were never at fault in a auto accident..... Besides the government stealing, that is what threatens Social Security most

Wow Bill M NY we all paid into Social Security and Medicare. They are taking away Medicare for Medicaid. Yep the federal government only pays 1/2 of Medicaid and the states pay the other 1/2. Yes Ellis they don't want young people to have a choice to opt out. They wouldn't have any slush fund to rob. LBJ started pulling money out of Social Security to pay for Viet Nam war. He promised that when the war was over that the Democrats would put it back, guess the war isn't over they never put it back.

ROY WILSON-336103 Karen in Los Angeles "5 - A study was made regarding Federal employees vs private sector employees for COMPARABLE jobs (accountants, lawyers, secretaries, clerks, etc.) ......WHO did the study and WHEN was it published and HOW can we verify?" Here is the link. http://seekingalpha.com/article/237000-not-sustainable-skyrocketing-compensation-for-federal-employees The average base pay figures for each study are somewhat different because one study shows all Federal employees, while the other study just shows Federal employees with comparable private sector jobs, but the average annual cost of a Federal employee's benefits package (about $40,000 per year, vs about $10,000 in the private sector) is consistent in both studies. Wouldn't it be nice if EVERYONE could retire at age 50 with about 80% of their base pay plus health benefits for life?

BS, the minimum retirement age under CSRS is 55 and to recieve 80% your must work 42 years.

Under FERS you get 1% per year of service. STFU until you know the real deal!

DWD - NJ's new governor put the brakes on salary increases for state workers. The problem in local government is bloat and an unwillingness to pare workforces down to size. Local municipalities tend to hire entire family dynasties for decades until retirement. Then, you have a local budget so out of control because of demands for annual increases. People can learn to live 3 or 4 years on the same salary. Ask anyone whose salary hasn't been increased in that span of time. It's time to take a hard look at what goes into all of that federal, state, county and local employee contracts. If they are not sustainable over an employee's term of employment, they have to be reworked. Business changes all the time. When these governments rely all too heavily on the private sector for benefits and funding, and things in business go south, then what?

My company reduced pay by 10% across the board for over a year and I'm sure there were many other companies in the private sector that did the same. We also haven't gotten a raise in over 2 years and my state and real estate taxes have also risen .....DEAL WITH IT I'm TRYING TO!

He did this before when he first took office. I'm guessing there is a 2 year time they put on these.

I like how everyone bashes Obama, but they have no idea what he's done. Google it, FFS.

According to the story a Republican presented it. So how will you change your spin?

This was originally the Republican proposal, not Obama's.

A pay freeze for the federal workforce was one of the proposals named by House Republicans in their "Pledge to America" released before the midterm elections.

Carl, it might help if you actually read the article before commenting.

I hate sounding like a broken record, but Obama did this when he first took office originally. This is an Obama thing repubs piggybacked on.

Carl W: Read the article so you can suddenly say it's a bad idea since the Republicans made the proposal in the first place. Quick, hurry before you get lost in the shuffle.

Those of you that are stating it is about time that Obama puts a pay freeze on the federal workers, most not work for the federal government. You already have those federal employees that are working 10 to 12 hrs a day because they are not fully staffed. Also, by freezing the pay doesn't help because other benefits are going up such as health care and others are being cut, i.e. transportation benefits. So in essence the federal government is being tripled hit. I don't see the private sector taking a hit like the federal government. Sure the private sector may lose jobs, but that is why the Social Security Act was enacted. Oh that's right, that is a federal government program that is going broke because government keeps spending it.

So, do you really believe the figures that the article is talking about and do you really think it will help the deficit? I don't think so.

Hopefully the republicans will block it.

Lucy1...If Republicans can only do things because it's destructive to this administration, that's not saying much. When Big Bourbon Boy, Mitch McConnell R-KY, needed heart surgery, he got it at Bethsada at taxpayer expense. He had blue ribbon care at taxpayer expense. Republicans are masters of timing. They know exactly when it's time to make cuts - when Democrats take office. The only thing any Republican knows how to cut are taxes to make 1% 11% richer in less than 5 years...see? Masters of timing.

Jeff...Enough already,....Who cares who proposed what? Little boys fight for the spotlight. Not grown men.

The Republicans are the one's who requested the pay freeze!

Obama DID NOT freeze all federal worker pay two years ago. He froze the White House Senior Executive Staff (SES employee pay scale) and that saved about $400k over the period.

I think before many people here spout off about pay they might want to understand the system.

1. Postal workers ARE NOT part of the federal pay system. Their unions negotiate with the Postal Service

2. There are three wage scales in the federal governtment which DO NOT include Congressman/Senators or military. They are

WG- Wage grade that are typically the factory worker types at military overhaul facilities. Field service types in other agencies.

GS grade 1-15 who are the bulk of federal workers around the country who do management and office work.

SES grade 1-4 who are federal judges, Department Secretaries and Agency Deputies.

These comprise the civilian federal workforce and pay increases are passed by congress which are typically tied to the national cost of living increase.

Is the system broken YES

Is every federal worker an overpaid lazy bum NO

Is it hard to get rid of a bad federal employee NO, but its not easy.

I give the President credit for suggesting this, even if it is using someone else's idea. The cuts have to start somewhere. I don't particularly care who gets credit, but I don't like hearing people lie. The issue behind this argument we're having is the importance of parties instead of individual congressmen. If there were such a thing as independence, we wouldn't be able to blame a party for anything. However, a party exists, because a group of people think the same way, so it would make sense if they all object to something for the same reason.

Now, explain to me how the Republicans have blocked anything when Democrats had a majority in the House and a super majority in the Senate. Democrats didn't need a single Republican vote to pass anything until Scott Brown was elected, but Obamacare still lanuished for months. Any measure passed with as much haste as the Dems have been trying to pass everything for the past 2 years is bound to have flaws, but there are plenty of people who will call me a racist for suggesting the President is anything less than infallible, so there's little point in arguing my beliefs.

Next, I want to point out the YouCut program started by Eric Cantor. Some of the programs suggested as spending cuts were chosen, because the President (yes, this President, not the previous one) has publicly stated they deserve to be cut, but not even those gained the support of enough Democrats to be stopped. The door swings both ways on this argument. Both parties are playing exactly the schoolyard games ewent is accusing. Although, I think grown men do tend to fight pretty hard for the spotlight, since they know what they can gain from holding it.

Lunagamer...Not true that all Republicans must march to the same tune or else. Sarah Palin is the best example of a free flying Republican. Huckabee as well. McCain most of all. Republicans had control for 6 years of the 8 Bush years. Again, I ask you....How is it they didn't see the Financial Meltdown of 2008 when they were deciding policies for 6 years?

You may be desperate enough to try to lob all the blame on Democrats. But then, you'd have to explain why the Republicans who have never voted against increasing military budgets decided to do that for the first time in over 50 years. Then, there was the obstruction of healthcare reform, financial reform and campaign reform. All voted against by Republicans. The only reason healthcare reform wasn't passed sooner was because Republicans didn't like the idea of a single payer plan. Republicans like McConnell, Boehner and Graham all stood there like spoiled Little Lord Fauntleroys pouting over that until Obama realized he needed more votes from Republicans to get the bill passed.

Let me clue you in....Men who act like spoiled children have Mommies who spank. Men who act like spoiled children all vying for the same No. 1 position don't get anything. They just get pumped adrenalin and add to their need for control, an addiction they learned in Daycare.

ewent

Lucy1...If Republicans can only do things because it's destructive to this administration, that's not saying much. When Big Bourbon Boy, Mitch McConnell R-KY, needed heart surgery, he got it at Bethsada at taxpayer expense. He had blue ribbon care at taxpayer expense.

Oh, ok. I guess you have your own definition of destructive. I guess you call what Progressives have done to this country progress too. You don't think the Dems get top notch care at our expense? I wonder who paid for BJ Bill Clintons surgery and I REALLY wonder who pays for Pelosi's botox and face lifts and whatever other cosmetics she receives. Get a clue, they all get prime care. Take off the blinders ewent.

Sorry but bureaucrats have been getting more money, it's been reported on numerous occasions. Their pay is now twice what the private sector is. The number making $100,000 or more have exploded. It's amazing you missed this since even the leftist news networks have carried the stories.

EWENT,

I'm curious and since you seem to be in the know, exactly how did the healthcare bill get passed? Yes, Repubs were against it and many dems as well. To my knowledge this would not have passed had it not been for some dem only closed door sessions and one on one meetings with the big guy before those final dem holdouts decided to vote for it. Maybe you can share with us the extent of those meetings and what was agreed to to get the bill passed. Had to be some really good deals to get all the dems in lock step.

For those of you who have been posting to this blog will know ewent always has all the answers. There are several people on here who are over confident self believing uber educated minions. They always do the most research and have the most correct answers. I'm a firm believer that he who claims to be smartest.......really arent, they just think they are.

the bible is a fairy tale.

Chef Darrell,

YOU are very foolish to make that statement...

Unfortunately for you, by the time you realize the Bible is not a fairy tale, it will be too late. I choose the what you call fairy tale over this horror flick world anyday. Merry CHRISTmas.

Bible = Christian mythology (just like Greek/Norse mythology, etc.)

Thank you Lucy1!!! ChefDarrell....you're kitchen will be a whole lot hotter one day!

The bible is writen by man , And as you can see what happening in the world man is screwing it up

Lucy1

Well said! Merry CHISTmas to you and may God bless you.

Lucy1,

I am so thankful to see that others out there still know the truth. Merry Christmas to you as well. Hopefully Chef Darrell and others like him do find God before its too late.

oh please...who has 2 thumbs and is an athiest....

THIS GUY!

I have no issue with you believing in your fairy tales....whatever helps you sleep at night.

But answer me this, why are you a complete narcissist 6 days a week, and all of a sudden born again on Sunday? If you say you aren't, you're a liar, and your invisible man in the sky hates liars.

To Lucy1 and RMil,

Completely off topic but:

You do realize that Christmas or December 25th has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus Christ don't you? Jesus was to have supposedly been born late Summer or early Fall.

December 25th is the ancient birthday of the sun-god Mithra, a pagan diety whose religious influence became widespread in the Roman Empire. In Rome, it was a pagen legacy to a celebration of the god Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god during the winter solstice period.

The winter holiday became known as Satunalia and began a week before December 25th. The holiday was characterized by gift-giving, feasting and singing as the priests of Saturn carried wreaths of evergreen boughs in procesion throughout the Roman temples.

It wasn't until 336AD that Emperor Constantine officially converted this pagan tradition into the "Christian" holiday we now call Christmas, or as you pointed out as CHRISTmas.

Just saying.

It has been scientifically, indisputably, proven beyond a shadow of a doubt the bible could NOT have been written by man and could only have been written by god.

Paul, I would love to know your sources unless, of course, God told you so. I must have missed that episode on the Discovery Channel.

I believe there is a god or some higher power, but a lot of the Bible IS mythology. A lot of it is mixed in with real places and events, and some of it may have a "factual" start, Kink David may be one of those, with a giant killing thrown in to make the story interesting and to prove a point with a story. Not unlike Troy was considered myth until recent discoveries, but the Trojan war, though it likely occured, was probably not fought over a woman and Achillies probably did not look like Brad Pitt.

Paul(MI), what are you talking about? I hope that was humor.

First of all, we're all idiots (and I include myself) for discussing religion in a political forum.

Paul, I believe the Bible is the Word of God, written by man. God did not write the Bible, Himself, but rather inspired men to do so. If you are actually pro-religion, you should capitalize the 'g' in God, because it is a proper name.

I have heard the pagan holiday explanation for Dec. 25. In my eyes, it doesn't make any difference. However it started, it doesn't change the reasons I celebrate on that day or the intentions in my heart. [i.e.] My family hasn't celebrated my birthday on the day (Dec. 27) for several years, now. That doesn't change what we're celebrating, when I do get my cake.

Chef Darrell, God loves you, too. I would ask you what takes more character: standing on your own, or believing in something/someone? You can believe whatever you want, but don't disparage me for my beliefs (i.e. "whatever helps you sleep at night" = you're a weak person who can't stand on their own). Whether or not you're a Christian, you're still [probably] going to have a day off for Christmas, so I say that is reason enough to wish anyone a merry Christmas. Agree?

Chef Darrell:

But answer me this, why are you a complete narcissist 6 days a week, and all of a sudden born again on Sunday? If you say you aren't, you're a liar, and your invisible man in the sky hates liars.

Are you like that 7 days a week? If you were put in a category that you just put millions of people in because you are an atheist you would be screaming descrimination and calling for the ban of all religion. Also, if you don't believe in God, how do you know what God likes? You choose not to believe, and others choose to believe. Why do you have to call people names like that because they don't agree with you? Hope Santa brings you everything you deserve. BTW, what do you think of this pay freeze?

Lunargamer: You're completely missing the point. I don't believe in what you believe. I would ask you, what takes more character, letting someone have his own beliefs, or trying to force yours on him? If it comes to a choice between science and faith, I choose science. It is tangible.

Lucy1: First, don't think so small, I put Billions of people in that category. Second, there is a greater stigma attached to being an athiest than being a muslim these days. Third, 12 years of catholic school, hearing what god likes every day gives me that insight. I choose not to believe in it. It's not an agnostic ("I don't care either way") thing, I do not believe there is a higher power. Third, Santa Claus is the same as god, i.e., a fairy tale to get kids to be good. Fourth, watch people. Really watch them. Note their completely selfish behavior. Then watch them in their house of worship, claiming to be a truly good person. That's what is known as a hypocrite.

As for the pay freeze, I'm not a gov't employee, so it doesn't bother me. But I do work with them, so I am happy for the raise I received.

The Bible is nothing more than a history book of mankind in that particular area of the world. Written well after the people in it were dust, using various methods details passed on through time.

The Bible has been rewritten, and editoral changes have been made over the years, and a sequel (new testament) was added. God should enforce his intellectual property rights, because the bible has changed constantly over time. God has had a lot of speechwriters over the last 1000 years.

No TonyInDallas I wasn’t being humorous in the least. Lunargamer may have put it more grammatically correct, by stating the bible is the word of God and directly inspired by Him, but you knew what I meant, and I meant every word of it. The bible IS NOT mythology.

The atheist comments and responses are certainly predictable on these liberal sites and most the time we Christians just let the comments pass. I have never known a lib who believes in God, nor have I known a lib capable of conceding to even the smallest thing when faced with indisputable facts. Besides being a lib, denying the bible and the existence of God one is either a liar or ignorant. Regardless, proof and facts don’t mean a thing to them, so why bother.

Paul,

I am a Christian, not an athiest, and a registered Republican, but voted platform not party, which means Palin didn't get my vajayjay vote. I'm just not a hypocritical Christian, and I certainly don't believe in something that is proven, by fact, not to be true, just because You say that the only way to be a true Christian is to believe in what You believe. I love when people post, and they think they have others all figured out.

Luvmywboys, not sure where your defensiveness is coming from. My note specifically addressed Tony, lunargamer and libs. You claim you are Christian, republican and open to fact and proof. The direct opposite of who I was talking about. No where in my posts did I talk Palin, nor remotely suggest what is required to be a true Christian. Me thinks your posts don’t jive with your claim, but anything can be true in the liberal bubble of Discovery Channel and MSNBC.

I went to a Catholic grade school high school and university, lots of religion classes, and not just Christianity, you can not prove God exists, you can not prove he does not exist, that is why it is called faith based, not fact based. You can prove Jesus existed as a human but can not prove he is God, the son of God, and the Holy Spirit. You can believe it or not, it is not a fact that has been proved. Allah might be God can't prove that or disprove that either.

Forrest I do not dispute what you are saying and I certainly didn’t and don’t intend to prove anything in this forum. But if atheist can throw out a single sentence calling the bible a fairy tale or myth, then for once in my life I can and should submit a single sentence disputing their claim.

I did not say God has been proven, I said the bible has. It has been scientifically, biologically, mathematically and historically proven that the bible could only have been inspired / influenced by a superior being. This is the same conclusion non-believing mathematicians at Harvard came to after being asked to look at only one of the hundreds pieces of evidence available. Yet some of them could not bring themselves to believe in God. I don’t find myself so intellectually superior as they obviously do to claim the book is real but the author is not.

Paul,

Not deffensive at all. Just stating that you are not all knowing. The Palin mention was the fact that I did vote Obama. I was trying, although not clearly enough, to state that all Christians can not be stimatized. Religion is based moreso on blind faith, rather than proof. You stated that you know for a fact, beyond a shadow of a doubt that God wrote the Bible. My comments to you are really?

Luvmy2boys. Yes really. How telling, you claim to be Christian yet you accept the nonbeliever’s comments without question or proof and challenge / question the Christian comments instead. Your comments suggest obvious doubt, but no doubt in the nonbeliever’s claim. In my case you are even dismissive because it wasn’t on your beloved liberal Discovery Channel. Do the nonbelievers have proof of what they claim? Or don’t they need it? It is ok for liberal atheist to spew, but obviously not Christian or republicans. Typical liberal double standard at best. You say your republican but voted for Obama and have an obvious liberal distain for Palin and for some reason her vajayjay as you refer to it. Your other comments on this blog today don’t exactly put you in the republican category either, nor does your defensiveness of my comments about libs. You are either conflicted or not what you claim to be.

Paul,

The difference is that I don't spew, I accept. Something that you should try. I certainly don't need proof on many things, as I think there are certainly things that science can't explain, but I am also not willing to believe just because someone else thinks that I should. I think that the bible is a book that is filled with part fact/part fiction. The bible is one of the most interpreted books that has ever been written. If you trully believe in the every aspect of the bible, would you stone your teenager for talking back? If not, why? It says to do that in the bible. How about taking your wife in front of the congregation for public stoning if she talks back or disrespects you? Why not, it says to do that in the bible. I have a problem with those who say they follow the book of God, but they pick and choose the things that "fit" them. However, they are the first to throw stones at people that don't feel as though they walk in the same path. There are many righteous paths Paul, not just yours. Life is an individual journey.

Your reference to me being Republican is humorous. Can I not be a free thinking Republican, with my own thoughts and ideas or is there somewhere that states in order to be a Republican, I must fit some cookie cutter mold, and be robotic without question. Believe me, the actions of the Republicans have made me question the party that I, without question, supported for years, and you are right, I don't support anyone spewing hate and disdain towards any party member, including Liberals, so don't expect me to jump on your bandwagon. Everyone should have an opinion, but to be so overtly angered is just bizarre.

I can't even imagine how boring this world would be if we all thought alike, acted alike, believed alike, etc. Pretty darn boring if you ask me. You are correct, I will probably change my party affiliation to Independant. The Republicans are doing nothing now but embarrassing themselves,. Most Republicans are Christian and it's one big Oxymoron. Republicans are spewing hate and disdain towards anyone that doesn't see eye to eye with them, and Christians are suppose to be forgiving, kind, compassionate and loving. Hmmmm, see where I'm going?

works for the park service or gets paid by the park service? that is a gravy train: retire at 50 yrs with cola protected pensions and full health care benefits. and get overtime compensation as well as salary.

unheard of in the private sector.

opinions of course, there are those in harms way: fire, police, military, but the park service gets the same treatment as being "at risk" as these other professions. not surprised support as opposed to fear of getting to work until 67 like the rest of society.

jameister...I don't know if this applies to federal workers or not. But, the thing that most fries me is giving people who are not sick a bankroll of sick days upon retirement. Many state, county and local governments do this. They allow sick time to be carried over for decades. One police chief in my town claimed he never took a sick day in 20 years. On the day of his retirement, he was handed a 6-figure check for all of his "unclaimed sick, personal and vacation time". How much more dopier does it need to get than that?

Jameister, I read you response and I can't help but wonder why you bad month fellow Americans. You have every right to apply for any government job that is available. I spent 28 years in the Army and had to listen to American citizens bad mouth us during peaceful days (the cut us 50% in the 1990s.) and know I see the same ones are bad mouth Government workers. If you think you have it so bad, apply for a government job and give something back to your country.

Oh yeah, it applies. It is tacked on to your years worked for increased pension benefits.

Federal employees cannot retire with banked sick leave. If you have sick leave on the books at retirement time, it counts as time worked towards your retirement. Minimal advantage. Smarter to be sick through you career and use it up. But most people just lose it.

If Obama wants to "create jobs" he better leave the tax cuts in place for EVERYONE. When was the last time a poor person gave anyone a job? You remove the tax cuts for the wealthy and not only will you see jobs continue to suffer...But the philanthropy. When was the last time a poor person donated to disaster relief? Liberals just don't get it. As much as King Obama wants to vilify those that have wealth...society needs wealthy people. Why would anyone aspire to be wealthy in Obama's World? Why would I want to make more money just to have him take it away? IDIOTS!

All this nonsense about tax cuts for the rich creating jobs is a bunch of BS. We've had the tax cuts in place for years and lost how many jobs now? The rich just pocket the money-they're not putting it back into the economy. What is costing us jobs is outsourcing for cheap labor and products from China and elsewhere. I wanted to have a "buy America" Christmas (that's right, "Christmas", not "Holiday") but I'll be damned if I can find much that's made in America. THIS is what's costing jobs not a lack of tax cuts!

I do believe that the article stated the freeze was intended for "executive branch" employees. This would not have an effect upon those congressional employees nor would it have an effect upon members of the House and Senate. If a freeze will reduce deficits by the numbers indicated I believe it is time to go for a 10 per cent across the board (if you get a check from the government this means you) pay cut to include ALL elected officials.

Finally a comment that makes sense. Few seem to accept these ideas, i.e., that poor people don't hire and they certainly are unable to donate, to anything. If the class warfare that the dems love to push continues, the ones who will suffer are employees, worthwhile causes and the less fortunate. You would think that this would be easily understood.

GThen start adding the milirary. Why not cut the lifetime benefit after twenty year and cut the number of troops by a third. stop being the world's police force.

Steve, you wanted to know "when was the last time a poor person donated to a disaster relief fund"?

Do you remember the Haiti earthquake? I donated several times just like a lot of other people and I am no way rich, I am retired and no where close to "rich". I have a very moderate income, maybe considered low for most people. The idea that the rich are the ones that need tax cuts is just another way of saying that the poor and middle class should continue to struggle. The rich have had the tax cuts for a decade. Where are the jobs that they created? Where are the jobs that they are creating now?

The rich don't need us to speak for them because they already know that they will continue to be alright as long as they have others looking out for them.

Really nobody would want to be rich because the taxes would be about 6% higher. Paying 300 thousand on a million is acceptable, but at 360 thousand the hell with it I don't even want to gross a million.

Why would anyone aspire to be wealthy in Obama's World?

"In Obama's world" now that is funny and sad at the same time. The tax rates would go back to what they had been previously. Was there any wealthy people before Bush's tax cut? No, the tax cuts are responsible for people wanting to be wealthy. Before the tax cuts it just wasn't worth it to be wealthy. Rich people have been getting screwed in the USA, under Obama it will suck to be rich.

highest paid gov't employees aren't really that well paid. You could post the wages, compare to say a real estate agent, a basket ball player...etc...then do the math on what the savings would be if all those gov't wages were cut in half...then post the result so we can see the total effect of your proposal.

I bet Flav o Flav made more than the highest paid gov't employee....entertainers and sports figures make billions and billions...and we complain about CEO's and govt leader pays...shows what the US reallly values....watching TV

KMac In Okla...Look at those Bush tax cuts this way...any tax cut means a reduction in an individual's tax burden, correct? So, while those Bush tax cuts reduced the tax burdens of 1% of the population, that means they paid less taxes for the things government needs tax revenues to fund. When 1% of the population pays less in taxes, guess who has to fill in the gaps when a bridge collapses? Or when banking institutions fail?

What we have hear is "failure to communicate"....1% of the population is so accustomed to their extravagances and indulgences that the other 99% becomes a ready supply of money as a slush fund. Don't wonder why Republicans want to privatize healthcare, Medicare and Social Security by handing it over to Corporate America. How else could Corporate America have such an everlasting slush fund at their disposal for their high risk investments? The money you pay in premiums and payroll deductions in the hands of Corporate America is slush money for their gambling addiction to venture capitalism and high risk investments.

AMEN webgab, you hit the nail on the head. The rich have had tax cuts for 10 years and the only jobs they created are in CHINA, THAILAND, TIAWAN, VIETNAM, MEXICO, PHILIPPINES....... while millions of AMERICANS lost and still loosing their jobs.

The jobs disappeared because the rich lost big money during the housing crisis. Which was cause by the liberals who believed that everyone should be able to own a house (fannie mae and freddie mac) even if they couldn't afford one. The are not rehiring now because they are already worried about a tax increase. Would you try and expand you business right now Knowing that the money you'll need next year will be gone to taxes. The rich are hoarding their money now so the gov. won't be able to take as much of it next year.

jeff240...Nice try. But, how do you explain what Goldman Sachs has earned in profits in the worst recession since the Great Depression? Goldman Sachs made trillions from the housing market down turn. Why? They approved loans they knew would fail and then they made sure that the insurance profits from the housing loans that failed added to their coffers.

Anyone who thinks that housing bust didn't earn huge profits for Goldman Sachs, AIG (an arm of GS), Morgan Stanley and the rest of the high risk high rollers of Wall Street is nuts. As far as Fannie and Freddie are concerned, since Republicans controlled Congress for 6 of the 8 years Bush and Cheney were minding the store, how is it the neocons didn't see what was happening in time to stave off that Financial Meltdown in 2008? Sorry, conservatives own that mess and it's time the little boys of the big money addictions manup.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you a soon to be the defunct American system of Avarice. Where the rich get richer and the poor are owned by the banks.

All of this banter is getting ridiculous. Everybody has an opinion and all want to share theirs and no one wants to stick their neck out and have someone follow what they say because "I don't want to be responsioble". But. hey everybody, you want a leader? Someone who will be there during the good and bad? Not affiliated with either party nor Libertarian, just plain old HUMAN? Well, email me and I can help. This country needs to get back to the basics. Good old Grandpappy common sense. No more of the political correctness, no more coddling special interest groups, establish a government work ethic of and for the people. We need NEW blood in government. People who grew up knowing the need to work, sweat, mow the yard, fix your own car, and defend your home. People with common sense. NO MORE BLOODY LAWYERS RUNNING THIS COUNTRY. Look at the court system and what is happening in the government. The courts are back logged and guess what, the government is back logged as it was. We need a referendum. A new vote. A new government based on the morals and ideas that the Constitution of these United States originally called. Where each of us are here for the pursuit of Life, Liberty and Freedom of Religion. It is lost. Rome died in 200 years. We are running real close to being a rerun of the same events that happened back then. Corruption, rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, no moral sense of one self, the bastardization of the country to serve only the rich. When is it going to stop??

First people lost their jobs, then the housing crisis. The rich were reimbursed, they were to big to fail, they even got a bonus, the losers were homeowners who lost the income to pay the mortgage. The idea about not hiring because they don't know what the taxes will be is just stupid, nobody ever knows what the future will bring, in any respect. If you need help you hire help, you don't turn customers away because you don't know what the taxes will be next year or the year after.

Forrest Gump...The other part of that statement Too Big To Fail? "Too Rich To Change". The best thing that happened when the market crashed in '29 was that the rich took the hit first. Banks were smart enough to scurry about looking for every last nickle in depositors accounts, not just investors. The world is now seeing why lack of oversight with the financial institutions is insanity. Without proper oversight, people in the US only have their savings insured up to $200,000 by the FDIC. After that, the grovelers of the banking trough help themselves.

Forest that is a foolish way of looking at business. You don't just hire people, you have to be sure you can afford to. I run my own business and I work long days because I cannot afford to hire help. I certainly would like to have the help. Our taxes are already going up thank's to the healthcare bill. Companies have to worry about the rules changes on that already. It sounds like if you had it your way, we wouldn't have any rich and every one can live equally. It doesn't work, Russia tried it remember. Liberals always say people should pay their fair share, well the poor already don't pay taxes and are beneficiaries of the majority of all wellfare programs, is that a "fair share"?

jeff...Who made the choice to own a business? Did you think that back in 1900 all of those penniless immigrants who came to this country started out as millionaires? Or did they work 16-20 hour days until their businesses became stable? I realize that the problems of small business are overwhelming. But, as far as healthcare reform is concerned, it's a lie to say it's going to cost you more. It will if you never offered ANY healthcare to your employees. Why should any employer have great healthcare and then force his employees to work without any? Is that the American way? Rich have more rights to healthcare?

99% of the population pays their fair share. 1% gets tax credits that reduce their tax burdens and make them 11% richer in less than 5 years. Talk about a great ROI. What's better than getting tons of business tax credits, bailouts and a lower federal income tax rate because you earn over $250,000 a year? Conservatives love to save. Just not their own money...everyone else's. So, yes. They'll cut programs for healthcare and things the salaries you won't pay doesn't afford them. Time to stop the martyrdom. You chose to own a business. If you are not up to it, get a job. It may take you a few years, but sooner or later, one will appear.

Ewent, Did you know I can no longer write off my healthcare as an expense starting in 2011. that will increase my agi therefore increase my taxes. Why should an employer be forced to pay for an employee's health ins. Why can't the wage earner be responsible for themselves and take their paycheck and buy there own.

Healthcare is considered part of your pay if you pay them enough cash they can buy their own. It is cheaper to pool them and provide those benefits. If you have the bussiness to hire more help, hire, if not don't, it is demand for your "product" that will determine hiring not the taxes you will pay on the additional income. Why should you deduct medical costs if people that buy their own insurance can not deduct those costs.

Why can't you pay the employee a wage that will allow them to buy their own insurance. But then again, because individuals can't get "bulk rate" lower rates like a business can, you'd have to be paying him/her at least 150% of your cost for that insurance so that, after taxes, the increase in pay will pay for that premium.That is why we needed single payer healthcare. Then everyone would be on the same level and rate for the coverage. I've owned my own businesses several times in my 66 years, and in each case went back to working for others to survive. SMALL businesses (what I call small businesses, not what the government/corporate world calls small) have always struggled to stay in business and figure out ways to maintain and/or increase staff. But employment needs are always first and foremost based on the supply and demand of the business. Is there enough business to justify hiring more help? How long will I be able to keep that person on full time or even part-time payroll? I never used potential new taxes or anything else as the primary determining factor. Instead, it was always two things.....is the work there and can I get enough for that work to pay for it (in other words, in the service field the actual work and in the retail field the customers to buy the products at a price that I can get a return on my "investment" in cost of goods and overhead.)

forest gump, If you itemize on your tax return, you can write off medical expense, most people don't because the standard deduction covers such writeoffs when you choose not to. also, everyone who receives health insurance as a benefit from an employer will now have to pay taxes on it. currently it is a tax free benefit, but next year whether you pay nothing, part or all of your health insurance, you will pay taxes on the value of your insurance hence increasing your AGI and the amount of tax you will pay.

To Anti-trust, you need to talk to some europeans before you ask for a single payer healthcare. Even in Australia there is private and public hospitals. Even our lawmakers think it is a bad Idea for them that they excluded themselves from the same type of HC the rest of us would have had. I just thank the Lord the bill did not pass will the single payer requirement.

also to antitrust, you say you don't take taxes into consideration but you do, I am not saying that taxes are the only reason to hire or fire someone, but it does play a big role. I work in construction, it gets cold where I live and I cannot work for 3 or 4 months a year. I would have to lay off that employee every year. This puts me at the highest rate that an employer pays for unemploment. Also it is considered a high risk job so I have to pay the highest rate that an employer pays for work comp. Don't forget I still am paying the employer's portion of SS and medicare. On top of this, it is going to be a requirement for me to carry health insurance on said employee. Also I am required to carry liability Ins on my company that goes up with the number of employees I hire. Then I have to hire someone at a competitive wage so I can have a decent employee. All said and done, I may be able to afford to do this this year, but my profit margin may not be enough to cover an increase in taxes or increase in the cost of soon to be required health insurance for my employees. I'm sorry, but I am taking all the risk, I should get the reward. Employees only risk is losing their job, and they have the freedom to leave at any time without any repercussions.

As far as the Bulk rate you talk about, I don't have enough employees to qualify, also, if I cut a persons wages by what their insurance costs to buy it for them, they would quit, don't kid yourself. Health insurance will just increase the cost of having an employee making the Big co.mpanies the only ones that can afford to hire.

How many people will tell the employer to cancel their health coverage because they don't want to pay the taxes next year. I guess none of them will, just like the hiring, the taxes are not the issue. Also I did say medical expense, what I should have said is the medical insuance expense, I don't beleive that can be deducted. Now you tell me my health benefits will be taxed as income, I wish that they would not be taxed but again if they are, I am not going to cancel the insuance benefits to save the taxes.

The taxes are one part of the issue, the other part is the health insuranse that will be required to be paid by the employer. The only way that is going to work is if the price of goods go up. Most business have to run a certain profit margin to succeed. Keep the current profit margin and the taxes go up and health insurance is required you will either have to raise prices or lower cost. The most expensive cost to a business is workforce. It is also no guarantee the by raising prices you can keep the same amount of sales and if that happens you will be laying employees off anyway. I reiterate, I am not a big business, and the cost and liability of having an employee is already expensive and will be extemely expensive in the future.

I didn't say people will tell there employers to cancel there medical insurance, but it will reduce there take home pay, leaving less disposable income. Unless you're a federal employee, them you are exempt from the new rules.

Your risk is the same as anybody else, broke is broke, you can go broke, your employees can go broke, you can go broke trying to make millions or just trying to make ends meet.

My whole point in this thread is that it is a big expensive risk to hire employees and getting more expensive all the time. Makes it harder to expand business and hence slows job creation. Why must we take the choice of how employers want to compensate their employees away. You all forget that the employee has a choice to work for someone or not to. It should be individual responsibility that dominates the workplace not a bunch of rules and regulations.

What else do you expect and soon? It's awful that people never had such expectations from the previous presidents. The country also needs to help itself, not wait for President Obama to wave his magic wand.

William Demuth...Actually? The better way is to go through that long, interminably long list of privatized vendors and see who is still on government payroll while being bone idle. This is fat we don't need to be paying for.

For those who say only the rich hire, think again. In 2001, Bush gave corporations billions to hire and create jobs. According to GAO records, less than 1% who took that taxpayer revenue used it for its intended purpose. The rest went to pay off debts and to continue the venture capitalism feeding frenzy.

But, you know what? American CEOs are not as smart as they think. There are already rumors that India's employees are not happy being paid salaries Americans won't work for. There goes the great rush to offshore. DUH...Dumb Uppercrust Hubris. As usual, fast cash for CEOs, no well-thought out long-term planning.

What about a HIRING freeze and some shrinking through attrition?

yay, just what we need! Higher unemployment and less consumer spending!! Keep slashing the benefits/pay/help to the little guys, and soon we'll have no economy at all! USA, USA, the current world leader in the formerly developed nations race to the bottom!

Doesn't bother the rich though, they'll invest their billions in China and keep move to their Tahitian summer home...

Drowning Grover...The reality is that 99% of the population subsidize 1% of the population. Think about it. When Republicans wanted to privatize Social Security, healthcare and Medicare, who would have profited most? Corporate America. That's called "Wealth Protection". Republicans are notorious for protecting the wealth of the 1%. Why? Simple. They consider labor a loss and Big Business a profit. So, on the Republicans ledger sheet, it's clear that all government programs be funneled to provide a steady stream of revenue to Big Business.

Is there a way out of this? Sure. Make sure you only deal with small business even if the cost is slightly more. You may pay a little more but in the long run, you have more control over your own buying power. You also have the confidence of dealing with a known entity who can be held far more accountable if needs must. How much accountability is there when corporation buy everything at dirt cheap prices and sell it at twice that so they can make their profits? This is the reason the economy is in such a dire state. We are addicted to corporations, what they sell and feel as if we must enslave ourselves to their pricing or else. You know any human being who isn't smart enough to find options?

ewent, do you know what subsidizing is? the poor are subsidized, that don't pay taxes like the rich do and they receive benefits. The rich pay the highest percentage of total tax revenue in this country, how are the being subsidized? if you are so bent on the poor and under privilaged being taken care of go and donate. I like to know where my donations go and choose how it will be spent.

ewent, you mention Goldman Sachs. Funny thing is who has been running this company and where are they now oh they work for the federal government (pick a party, both play). You wonder why they were bailed out? I don't, they all take care of each other. Once they are done working for uncle sugar they go right back to running these same companies. It's a show and the average citizens are mearly the puppets.

Ewent, Which is why Im building a world class Data center in Vietnam. Indian salaries have risen this year by near 24% and they are expected to rise again next year.

Yes Obama care will increase the federal payroll. Why not cut the number of people that HHS secretary can hire?

Pro-tip 1: The federal government has no jurisdiction over state and local government employees.

Pro-tip 2: The Posse Comitatus Act prohibits non-civilian federal employees from performing domestic law enforcement and administration so you know that the TSA, the Dep. of Homeland Security, the Dep. of Interior, the National Parks Service, and the Social Security Administration are all civilian.

Take TSA off the table for pay freezes; they're going via private contractor.....i.e., non-government entity.

Don't be stupid. They don't receive a full salary and benefits after one term.



http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/pensions.asp

They aren't on Social Security so why have a link to it?

Private contractors aren't the solution to everything. Indiana (the great land of Mitch) tried it with welfare benefits with IBM no less. It was a boondoggle and a failure. IBM was more concerned with having the perfect software than getting the benefits out.

Wm375...Don't I know it. When my company had a healthcare plan 20 years ago, it was affordable for the company and the employees were fully covered. By the 1980's, the HMOs went around to companies convincing them how much "money they'd save" if they switched from traditional plans to HMOs. Of course, what most companies back then didn't realize was that eventually, the HMO would take the money companies paid in premiums and use it for global high risk investments. The ripple effect was clear: high risk investments sour, premiums have to increase in order to continue to fund high risk investments. When that didn't work, it was time to deny claims and drop policies of the insured. Anything to keep the slush fund of money flowing.

I hate to disillusion you but, as a retired federal employee I never made anything close to $100K per year. I do agree with you, however, that Congress and the Senate should NOT have full pension and benefits after one term. Salary freezes have been done before and helped a little. Federal employees do work hard, they don't all just sit. I worked hard for every dollar I earned.

The average salary for members of Congress might be over $100,000 a year, but not for your average federal employee working in the trenches. It's taken me 28 years to go from $5.13 an hour to $74,000 a year working my way up the ranks....and yes, I've experienced pay cuts, pay freezes, hiring freezes, etc. along the way. If you want to know how the federal pay system works, go to www.opm.gov and check it out.

Also keep in mind that Congress has to vote AGAINST their pay raise, but it is automatic if they don't. They don't vote FOR it.

Now if we can get Obama to stop creating federal jobs by handing out all this free money that has to be accounted for by federal employees, it might help.

Sara...There's one thing wrong with the idea of "smaller government", how small can a government be with a population the size of the US? Every time the Republicans suggest "smaller government" what they really mean is "larger outsourcing" to private vendors who get government contracts like Halliburton, Enron, Blackwater, KBR, etc.

The devil is always in the details. When you privatize government to the max, the government is no longer government but a commercial entity without any control or oversight over pricing or cost to taxpayers. I'll give you an example. In 2005, $200 billion went missing to "contractors" hired by the US government for Iraq. No one ever paid a dime of that back. Why? Because, it's far easier to hide money when you are a government contractor than when you are government. The noxious part of the equation is the word "private" when you speak of "smaller government" in the hands of private vendors.

Bush pushed to outsource all of the jobs he could. This just led to more corporate greed. Instead of paying the salary to an individual, the task was awarded to big corporation whose upper management had to be paid as well as the employee. The facts show (because the cost of corporate overhead) that having a federal employee do the task is much cheaper than outsourcing to some corporation.

Your "worthless government employee" keeps your food safe, provides housing for your elderly mother, protects your borders, provides health care, safe water/sewer systems, rural communications, etc., etc.

Congress passes laws - who is going to implement them? You? Congress?

Please. Another angry, dumb american (I assume, here).....

quit drinking the koolaid

Please do not use Bill Gates as a paradigm in the same breath as pay cuts for CEOs in the private sector! He and his wife made the decision to give their billions away to a number of worthy charities, much like what Paul Newman did when he created his food industry.

Bill Gates is a very selfless individual; after watching him interviewed by "60 Minutes," I realized that not all CEOs are greedy like those in the finance industry.

You think the gov't should be able to freeze the pay of private sector employees ?

Careful what you wish for.

John...No government shouldn't freeze the pay of private sector employees. They are already stagnant to levels of 1971. Guess who made that decision? Here's a math problem for you. How many employees' salaries does it take to fund a CEO's 100 billion in salary? That give you an idea of what's gone wrong in this country?

CEO don't need a salary increase every year or even every 3 years. They can do exactly what they expect you to do....learn to live within their means and on the salary they are paid. At this point in time, they see the rest of us as their private slush fund who'll pick up the pieces of the financial messes they create and then make certain that annual bonus and salary increase is intact.

sorry ewent, There is currently no CEO making 100 billion in salary a year. 100 million with a m. quit exagerating!

Jeff...Even so...how many employees salaries does it take to pay a $100 million CEO salary? And why does this CEO feel he is worth $100 million? He spends half his day delegating his work to his subordinates and then sitting in board of directors meetings the other. I observed at least 3 CEOs of Fortune 50 companies do this. Don't tell me they are breaking a sweat. Unless of course, schmoozing their clients on the golf course or at a Super Bowl game is work.

ewent, actually it takes alot less of a major company's employee's salary to pay 100 million to a ceo. For example if a co has 100,000 employees that is $1000 per employee. some small business owner makes 200,000 and have 10 employees. that's $20,000 per employee. Which is worse?

How about the sole owner companies (Koch Brothers, et. al.) who make billions each year and pay NO federal taxes after all of their deductions, credits, subsidies, etc.? They are the worst of the bunch.

anti trust, have you seen this tax return or are you just pulling figures out of thin air? are you looking at gross income and not net income? Did the have a carryover loss that the could apply on there taxes? Did you know subsidies are taxable income? did they have tax credits for say operating in a green enviromentally freindly fashion? did they write off bad assets? Explain to me how it worked, Please!

Not all FedEx employees, I still am getting raises. Mind you, I'm not in a managers position. So if you weren't thinking of the actual workforce of the company, the package handlers, then you are probably right I guess.

got my vote, layoffs wouldn't hurt either. Most state governments cut back in 2010 and 2009. Wonder if the fact that states had constitutional amendments to have a balanced budget had anything to do with it??

Sounds like your jealous that you didn't go to work for the Government. You would rather cut their pay, promote potential layoffs and pay their unemployment?! Hum pay them to work or pay them to stay home...not a rocket scientists but I vote work!

I work for DOD and make no were near $81,000 a year that someone quoted. The problem with the civilian pay system is the top 10% who are managers. They are the overpaid ones who get huge yearly bonuses. I work as a programmer and make less than I would elsewhere, but there is job security. People who complain that workers should take pay cuts or be laid off are jealous that they cannot get a federal job because they have background issues. If you want to work for the federal government go to usajobs and apply. Don't bitch about what other people are making. I started working for the government in 2003 for $12.00 an hour and went to college got a degree and worked my way up ( I paid for my own school no reimbursment). I agree everyone needs to work to help the economy but, don't judge all federal workers by what congress and the senate get paid. There are multiple wage systems with different unions and benifits. The majority of federal employees are WG (wage grade) hourly employees who can be sent anywhere in the world with little notice. So, before you call for DOD employee layoffs get your facts straight.