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Subscribe to RSSWith the swarms of reporters attracted and reams of op-eds launched by today’s controversial House hearing on the American Muslim community, it’s worth noting some of the more interesting – and perhaps surprising – data that exists about the small but diverse population of Muslims in America.
Thursday's hearing, titled “Extent of Radicalization in the American Muslim Community and that Community's Response,” prompted outrage from critics who said the committee unfairly targeted the Muslim community as a whole rather than focusing on individuals recruited by terrorist organizations.
In his opening statement, Homeland Security Committee Chairman Peter King cited a 2009 Pew Research Center poll indicating that 15 percent of American Muslims under age 30 believe that suicide bombings can often or sometimes be justified. (That’s compared to just 6 percent for Muslims in the U.S. who are over 30.)
Here are some other noteworthy statistics from the Pew Research Center’s work:
- According to the 2009 study, Muslims in the United States are much more likely to say that suicide bombings are never justified in defense of Islam than Muslims in other countries. Almost eight in 10 American Muslims say that such attacks are never defensible, compared to 70 percent of Muslims in Britain, 64 percent of Muslims in France, and just 17 percent of Muslims who live in the Palestinian territory.
- Per Pew's national survey of Muslims in 2007, Muslims constituted about 0.6% of the U.S. adult population. (Estimates of the number of Muslims in the United States vary widely, although most national surveys indicate that they make up less than one percent of Americans over 18 years old.) Nearly two-thirds of the population is made up of first generation immigrants, while about 35 percent were born in the United States. Almost four in ten describe themselves as white, 26 percent as black, and 20 percent Asian.
- Seven in 10 Muslim Americans say that they prefer a bigger government that provides more services rather than a smaller government that does less. Only about 11 percent of Muslims affiliated themselves with the Republican Party, while about 60 percent said that they identify with or lean towards the Democratic Party. But Muslim Americans are much more likely than the public at large to say that homosexuality should be discouraged; only 27 percent say homosexuality should be accepted, compared to about half of Americans overall who say the same thing.
- Muslim Americans are more optimistic about upward mobility than the public at large. Over 70 percent of Muslim Americans say that “most people who want to get ahead can make it if they work hard.” That’s slightly higher than the 64 percent of the general public that agrees with that statement.
- The American public at large is divided on whether or not Islam is more likely than other religions to encourage violence. About 40 percent of Pew survey respondents in February 2011 said that the Islamic faith tends to foster violence more than other religions, while 42 percent said it does not. Staunch Republicans were the most likely to link Islam and violence, with two-thirds of self-identified conservatives saying that Islam promotes violence more than other religions.
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Forget Muslims in America- it's those 'born-agains' that worry me. I mean, if you and your mom couldn't get it right the first time....
Liberals like Sticking their head in the sand when it comes to Problems in this country. Just like they are doing with the Debt and Deficts.
and Born Agains. You mean like Obama. i mean afterall he is a Born again he does say he gave his life to Jesus. therefore he fail into the Catagory you cite. What about all the Born Agains in the Black Community i mean dont they believe that Jesus is the God and Savior? and since 90 percent of them voted for Obama are you saying you are worried about them? Or do you just mean Republicans that believe Jesus is their god and Savoir...
*yawn*
I have to double *yawn* *yawn*
I keep wondering where conservatives were when Bush and the GOP Congress amassed such huge deficits, took a budget surplus and turned it upside down in one year, and doubled the National debt. After spending the Nation over the cliff, suddenly every GOPTPer in Congress and on First Read is appalled at the size of the debt. Deficits don't matter EXCEPT when democrats are in charge--then it's all day, all night "fiscal responsibility".
The GOP is not serious about the debt or else they would have allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire on 2% of the population. Then spending cuts would have a bit more of an impact. As far as I'm concerned the GOP is a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. They're empty suits talking a strike game while throwing softballs.
I mean . Afterall Jody.
It was the Democrat controlled congress that passed the Obama Tax cut Extensions. and then Obama that signed them.
Steve....
The two yawns posted above only shows they lost the arguement! :)
Jody....
When a president spends more money in two years than Bush in 8, yeah start to worry.
"I mean afterall he is a Born again he does say he gave his life to Jesus." Sent by Steve 505729
Sie müssen sich entscheiden.
Please. It's so hard to keep track.
Looks like the House has more than one "weeper" as the Nasty Redhead call Boehner. I'm looking forward to her posts making fun of Rep. Ellison.
Jody,
The deficit for 2007 was what -$158 billion?
Obama busts that yearly deficit in one month - by $75 billion!
So clueless, Jody.
Why would I make fun of Ellison? He was SOBER & his tears were genuine!
Not some hormonally imbalanced drunk who chokes up at the drop of a hat!
Muslims have been thoroughly denigrated - who's up next? Hispanics? Asians?
Steve-505729
and Born Agains. You mean like Obama. i mean afterall he is a Born again he does say he gave his life to Jesus. therefore he fail into the Catagory you cite. What about all the Born Agains in the Black Community i mean dont they believe that Jesus is the God and Savior? and since 90 percent of them voted for Obama are you saying you are worried about them? Or do you just mean Republicans that believe Jesus is their god and Savoir...
could you please explain what you mean by this.
Your saying that black don't really believe that Jesus is the God and Savior?
99% of black are not born agains, Steve read your history book, blacks were forced to accept that Jesus is the God and Savior by our masters 150 years ago, i don't understand where your coming from.
who's up next? Hispanics? Asians?
My vote goes for nasty redheads.
Libbies yawning a lot - sleepy?
Seems Holder has a sleeping problem:
Janet Napolitano says:
The article above says that 1 in 6-7 American Muslims think suicide bombings are OK.
What other group of Americans think bombings are OK? No problem here....nothing to see, huh?
You guys are sick?
Now re-insert your heads ....... go back to Koch stuff, tea baggers, blah ,blah and have a nice day.
King? King? Hmmm... where have I heard that name?
WAIT -I know, would that be the same Peter King with the Pro-IRA past?
So
Jeff-1541632
99% of black are not born agains, Steve read your history book, blacks were forced to accept that Jesus is the God and Savior
all the Black people in America today are being forced to believe that Jesus is the god and Savior. Perhaps you should tell Obama that. because he accepted it are you saying he is over 150 years old....... well now........
Nevermind...people will never change. (I was going to say something to Steve, but it's not worth it.)
Muslims in this country should be more vocal about issues and their stance against "radicalization" (whatever the eff that means) and Christians hunting them, should take a break and be fair about how they classify EVERY muslim. No, that is not being PC, it's being logical. Not everyone is bad and that is a fact, no matter the religion you follow. We cannot through everyone in the same boat and then sink it, because they do not believe how we believe.
Oh my, Feisty-
You hit your mark and spout your lines...
Even BETTER than Bev does!
Maybe even better than Charlie Sheen.
Of course...
He's more coherent.
LOL Mixxed bag..
You are Correct. He is more Coherent then the Nasty one..
Nope. You are comparing Apples and Oranges. The 2007 numbers don't include war spending.
Ok Charles what was the total war spending in 2007? Please add that to thee defict that was posted that year.
So what is the total?
Now, what is $223 billion times 12?
Let's compare apples to apples. $2.676 TRILLION is the apple I got.
You like apples? How about them apples?
Steve
all the Black people in America today are being forced to believe that Jesus is the god and Savior. Perhaps you should tell Obama that. because he accepted it are you saying he is over 150 years old....... well now........
No you know i did not mean or say that, your being Funny, LOL LOL i said 150 years AGO!!!!!!
I know your acting like archie Bunker but what your saying is NOT funny.
your injecting race in to this, and this is not about race but religon. but you know that, i guess you are trying to see how many votes you get.
Next you will say that MLK was forced to become a minister.
War spending in 2007 was $160 billion, so the true deficit number was about $320 billion for the year.
$320 billion for a year, compared to $223 billion for a month. Yes, that's much better.
Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2010-05-12-afghan_N.htm
The American public at large is divided on whether or not Islam is more likely than other religions to encourage violence.
I know the KKK would invoke god before they Lynched.
Mark Murray this artical has nothing to do with deficts or debt, you would please post and tell folks to stay on topic!!! Joanna is only posting because of the debt talk.
or Charles,
What is the spending for both wars this year - $160 billion?
Round it up to $14 billion a month. 223 - 14 = 209
Bush's non-war spending was $158 billion in one year (2007).
Obama's non-war spending was $209 billion in one month.
Injecting Race? What is your point here Jeff. DBO cited Born Agains. Are Black People not Born Agains. isnt Obama a Born Again. Who was DBO talking about when he cited Born Agains. Only White Republican Born Agains. Or was he citing all of them?
Are the Black people of 2011 Being Forced to Accept Jesus as their God and Savior? and since 90 percent of them Voted for Obama is DBO talking abotu them? What percentage of those Black People are Born Agains? Is Dbo accusing all those Black that are Born Again of Being Terrorists? Who exactly is he talking about?
I mean Surely. Bev who is Black admits to being a Christian and Born Again. is DBO accusing her of being a Terrorist? I bet she woud beg to differ How many other Black People that are Christians "born again" come to this board and post. Would they not speak out against Dbo Claiming they are Terrorist. or would they just let it slide and Remain Silent?
Forget Muslims in America- it's those 'born-agains' that worry me. I mean, if you and your mom couldn't get it right the first time....
These are his Words. and Since Obama is a Born Again. does Obama Worry him?
So there you go Charles - apples to apples: $320 [Bush] to $2.676 Trillion for Obama.
As I'm sure Bev. will tell you, math is pretty straight forward and tough to spin.
I like apples, but I don't like 'dem apples.
Jeff, was that a call out for mommy? Oh my!
Wahhhaahhhhahhhhahhahahahahah ... I want him to be more coherent than me, too. Feisty shouldn't have all the fun around here.
Wahhahahhahhhhhhahahhhhhhhahh
Sorry, Feisty. Just trying to fit in with the other infants. ;-)
It is not better. I just don't like deceptive talking points. It is simple not true that the February 2011 monthly deficit was higher than the yearly deficit in 2007. Let's try to have an honest discussion.
Jeff,
Jody, Iowa
I keep wondering where conservatives were when Bush and the GOP Congress amassed such huge deficits, took a budget surplus and turned it upside down in one year, and doubled the National debt. After spending the Nation over the cliff, suddenly every GOPTPer in Congress and on First Read is appalled at the size of the debt. Deficits don't matter EXCEPT when democrats are in charge--then it's all day, all night "fiscal responsibility".
The GOP is not serious about the debt or else they would have allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire on 2% of the population. Then spending cuts would have a bit more of an impact. As far as I'm concerned the GOP is a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. They're empty suits talking a strike game while throwing softballs.
#1.4 - Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:55 AM PST
Mark Murray this artical has nothing to do with deficts or debt, you would please post and tell folks to stay on topic!!! Joanna is only posting because of the debt talk.
You Rail against JS! when it was Jody that first brought this subject to this board. shouldn't your outrage be with her ?
James-2110694
Steve....
"The two yawns posted above only shows they lost the arguement! :)"
Thanks, James- several of us have been wondering what all those *yawns* meant.
"These are his Words. and Since Obama is a Born Again. does Obama Worry him?"
When Obama sanctimoniously says I need to believe as HE does, yes- he, too, will worry me. When he decides it's ok to murder doctors, yes- he too will worry me. Does that help?
JoAnnaSmith1-
Most First Readers don't understand the issue of deficits and debt.
They don't want to understand.
It doesn't matter that their own sacred cows will be the first to be sacrificed, does it?
When President Obama, in his FY 2012 budget proposal, allows most of us to understand that the U.S. will be adding $13 trillion in new debt over the next 10 years...it doesn't register with most of those who blog here on a regular basis.
When Erskine Bowles, a co-chair of President Obama's own debt commission and a White House Chief Of Staff for President Bill Clinton, suggests that President Obama may have less than two years to address the debt crisis...it simply doesn't register.
They don't get it, JoAnna...
They won't get it until it all comes crashing down.
Some...perhaps most, won't even get it then.
Hey Anna M - why are you not out protesting at the Capital?
Come on girl, where's the solidarity?
Why do you hate the public employee unions in Wisconsin?
Steve,
Are the Black people of 2011 Being Forced to Accept Jesus as their God and Savior? and since 90 percent of them Voted for Obama is DBO talking abotu them? What percentage of those Black People are Born Agains? Is Dbo accusing all those Black that are Born Again of Being Terrorists? Who exactly is he talking about?
During slavery blacks were forsed to accpet christanty. Steve i hate to tell you this but slavery has been over for 147 years ago. but if your from texas it was 136 years ago it took 10 years to get the word to them in texas.
basen upon what your saying, Roosevelt, Truman, Kenndy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton, are also born agains, we votes over 90% for them as well. You must be talking about born again christins. i never understood them.
I'm a lutheran. does that make me a born again!!!!
Lets go back even further, Teddy Roosevelt must have been as well, black were republicans in 1900. so any politican who black vote for are born agains. right!!!
3000 Americans died on 9/11.
Since then over 120,000 Americans have been murdered in the US and 13,000,000 have been subject of Violent Crimes.
In 2009 alone there where over 15,000 murders in the US. Why don’t we here about this every day like
the running totals of GI’s killed in Iraq which is now over 4500.
According to Congressmen King this is all due to RADICALIZED MUSLIMS.
Please Insult Me!
Perhaps it was herself.
True enough. They will though, when their "guberment" checks stop coming, because we just don't have the money.
"But, but, but . . . ", they'll screech, "I have a right to that money, it's mine, I paid in, I'm entitled!!".
Yeah, but there's none left because the bank accounts, they are empty. Those nasty old bondholders, you know, the people that hold the notes on our debt, they wanted to be paid, and they take priority over your rights, your money, and your entitlements. You're screwed dude.
No, it's not. But it's close. My gosh Obama can spend it.
Please Insult Me!
You're just mad about those hats.
As for who I was insulting, let's just say it WASN'T FEISTY.
Steve:
Perhaps. Perhaps not. Just blame the whole thing on my evil twin Anomaly, please. I find I'm not able to control her any more. As if I ever was.
Spanky:
I'm SO glad you asked me that question. Actually I was teaching classes at the Business School this morning. Indoctrinating the young and and so on and so forth.
I can't DO, so I teach. And the young are so needy for what I have to teach. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. Just like George W. Bush.
http://blog.mises.org/8777/from-each-according-to-his-ability/
oH NO, not you AM!
So you have gone from a very capable soldier in the army of social justice, bashing us righties with YOUR wit, intellect, and skill, to this? Cutting and Pasting? What, are you Bev. now?
Please stop now with the cutting and pasting. I get that Bev. is incabale of forming her own arguments and has to cut and paste, but you surely do not.
Promise. And pinky swear.
And I do wonder hoe the "youth" are taking all this. After all all this debt is on them. Us old folk have had a good run, and more importantly had time to "get ours." But those poor bastards have no chance.
Debt service costs are projected to top $1 Trillion in just a few years. That doesn't seem to leave much for anything else. And I kinda doubt the credit line will remain open for too much longer.
As for how the youth are taking it, coincidentally, as we were starting my second class, one of the students remarked that she had seen a big crowd of high school students walking through the University area toward the Capitol. I confirmed this in the local online newspaper. They spontaneously walked out of school in support of the workers, even though their teachers were in school and working as advised by the head of the Madison union. So, I guess they're taking it well enough and aren't overly concerned about Bush's debt load. As for them having no chance, I guess you'd have to meet them. Their average ACT score was 25.9. But, hey, why spoil a beautiful delusion with firsthand knowledge?
Keep dreaming, Spanky.
When you say "us," however, you really should limit that to yourself. I wasn't in favor of the war or the Wall Street bailout, or the S&L bailout, or Iran-Contra, or NAFTA, or credit default swaps, or tax breaks for the wealthy, or corporate subsidies, or hiring private contractors at exorbitant prices to prosecute the wars, or runaway military spending, or pork barrels, or earmarks, and I definitely did not do as well on my investments as you seem to have done your investments. I'm not a top 2 percenter and I don't consider myself an entrepreneur, except that I'm pretty much responsible for my own practice within a practice. So I gladly cede all the blame for the past 30 years to you, Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, and Ayn Rand. Be proud.
As for cutting and pasting, I will if I wanna, and mocking me by pointing to someone else who does it is no substitute for a response to MY point. Deflection, I believe, is the rhetorical term for it.
But keep trying, Spanky. Eventually, you'll get the hang of this. ;-)
"Muslims in the United States are much more likely to say that suicide bombings are never justified in defense of Islam than Muslims in other countries. Almost eight in 10 American Muslims say that such attacks are never defensible, compared to 70 percent of Muslims in Britain, 64 percent of Muslims in France, and just 17 percent of Muslims who live in the Palestinian territory."
Am I allowed to say that the over 2 in 10 American's Muslims that think suicide bombings are justifiable concern me without being called a racist or republican?
Question: How does this stat compare with non-Muslim Americans?
I think I will keep trying. And I will keep hanging, real low.
But you have to know that because of Bev. and her proclivity to cut and paste - typically with something that is either off topic, or which does not support her positions [god bless the old gal, she does try mighty hard] most of us glaze over and do not read the cut and paste.
I have no idea what your point was. But fear not I will comment away.
And Common Sense - Hell yeah that is scary. Come on libbies let's hear you all defend that statistic. 20% of American muslims are totally cool with suicide bonbings. What could possibly go wrong?
Of course. But yours may not be exactly the right question, given the obvious bias. Maybe you should ask the non-Muslim Americans something about how they feel about invasions of Middle East countries where Muslims live just because they do. That might get an interesting response.
And I'm all for low-hanging fruit. Keep it coming, Spanky. Grapes are my particular favorite, but plums will also do nicely.
LoL And you're welcome to start any time. But the article was about Bush's socialist giveaway to the banks. It suited the quote, and as a matter of fact, came up when I googled the quote.
Bush and I are BOTH socialists, Spanky. I think Reagan was, too, if measured by bailouts to financial institutions caused by his own fiscal mismanagement.
Don't forget the plums tomorrow. So sweet and so cold. Nighty night.
Sure - but even if Bush and Reagan were socialists, I for one will never defend Bush and his stupid fiscal policies and spending, then what the heck does that make our man O?
And it wasn't fruit that hangs low, if you know what I mean. also I"m out for the weekend - Spring Break in Lake Havasu. I got to go out there and use up as much oil and gas as I can, and that is a lot, for my greenie friends.
See you next week. Same bat time, same bat channel.
Obama's deficits are directly related to Bush's policies of putting the "car in the ditch". Obama's deficits are the price we must pay to get the car out of the ditch, repaired, and gassed up and running again.
Steve-505729
Injecting Race? What is your point here Jeff. DBO cited Born Agains. Are Black People not Born Agains. isnt Obama a Born Again. Who was DBO talking about when he cited Born Agains. Only White Republican Born Agains. Or was he citing all of them?
You sick little racist bigot; hardly is there a day you don't inject race(racism). Why don't you crawl back under you rock? proof from a thread that had a topic which had nothing whatsoever to do with race or racism yet you brought it up...
Steve-505729
Bev,
Nice . But last i checked on History and about Slave Trade . It all Started in Africa. You see there was these Tribes there. it was Black on Black fighting each other. They would then take the Prisoners and those Black Africans would then Sell their Black Prisoners to White People.... I mean dont get me wrong Slavery Was Wrong. but the FACT is. Black people Sold other Black People into Slavery.
That little Bit of history always gets left out Doesn't it.............
Seems you always want to Blame WHITE PEOPLE for Slavery . BUT the Fact is it started with Black People selling other Black people first . Didnt it
#11.2 - Sat Mar 5, 2011 7:48 PM EST
Spanky:
Of course, I do. Enjoy your weekend, even if it does make you responsible for ruining the environment for your children and grandchildren.
By the way, I no longer make it a habit of defending "our man O." It's about time he started doing that for me.
Steve-505729
Are the Black people of 2011 Being Forced to Accept Jesus as their God and Savior? and since 90 percent of them Voted for Obama is DBO talking abotu them? What percentage of those Black People are Born Agains? Is Dbo accusing all those Black that are Born Again of Being Terrorists? Who exactly is he talking about?
Sicko, no one is forced to accept any religion. it's a free country.
I mean Surely. Bev who is Black admits to being a Christian and Born Again. is DBO accusing her of being a Terrorist? I bet she woud beg to differ How many other Black People that are Christians "born again" come to this board and post. Would they not speak out against Dbo Claiming they are Terrorist. or would they just let it slide and Remain Silent?
You sick liar. I've never said I was a Christian and Born Again. I was born into Catholicism. I went to Catholic grammar and high school. If you want to say I was born again, perhaps there is some truth there. Once I started studying various religions I rejected Christianity here is why...
The religious and cultural genocide that the African had to endure (being stripped of animism, African spiritualism, voodoo or Islam ) was due to Christianity being forced upon him/her as a means to save the savage soul; remember?
NONETHELESS, THESE SAME CHRISTIANS ENSLAVED AND ABUSED THE AFRICAN UNDER THE GUISE OF CHRISTIANITY.
I do not embrace any religion anymore; but I'm more spiritual than you ever could because I care about humankind and am not selfish and bigoted like you. When I'm tagged racist; it's because I will not allow you to denigrate and emasculate my President and other black people; which is only natural.
Forget Muslims in America- it's those '
born-agains' that worry me. I mean, if you and your mom couldn't get it right the first time....
These are his Words. and Since Obama is a Born Again. does Obama Worry him
Yea, Stevie-o you should be worried about those holy rollers who are bible- thumping Christians; especially the ones who have caused austere practices of your bigotry towards immigrants, women, Muslims, LGBT people, as well as any other targets of the bigotry you emulate Stevie-o. Your failure to not address those issues and focus on the Black born Again Christians people who voted for the President, the President, and me clearly shows how slanted you views are.
A couple of things....
1) Race is a socially constructed barrier used to separate humankind and it's really about time we stop viewing things like that... Just because a one guys body produces more malanin(thus darker skin color) than mine doesn't mean that I should view him any different than myself.
2) Christianity has been used as an excuse to murder as many or more people as Islam, the difference is all about perspective and interpretation. I mean, people claim the Torah is evil, but so is the Bible if you are looking for the right things.
3) People should stop allowing themselves to be taken in by the fear-mongers. Trust a person until they give you a reason not to. And if they start messing with their underwear, for goodness sake pull out the weapon we have the right to carry :P That's how Americans are supposed to live, not cowering in fear of the people next to you who look different. This is America! Where all those seek a better life can, with much toil, sweat, and effort, make their lives better! Those who legally enter our country for the reasons promised by generations of immigrants past should be welcomed, not feared.
4) Meh, tired of typing what will probably fall on deaf ears anyways :(
Bev you are a LYING DISGUSTING HUMAN this is what you WROTE .. errr copy and pasted
Some pretty big ones!
http://gawker.com/#!5540483/meet-the-crusader-behind-texas-textbook-whitewash
Tancredo says Obama won because we lack a ‘literacy test before people can vote in this country.’
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/05/tancredo-obama-literacy/
*Ahem* that is equivalent to a New Jim Crow.
#11.1 - Sat Mar 5, 2011 2:41 PM PST
Steve-505729
Bev,
Nice . But last i checked on History and about Slave Trade . It all Started in Africa. You see there was these Tribes there. it was Black on Black fighting each other. They would then take the Prisoners and those Black Africans would then Sell their Black Prisoners to White People.... I mean dont get me wrong Slavery Was Wrong. but the FACT is. Black people Sold other Black People into Slavery.
That little Bit of history always gets left out Doesn't it.............
Seems you always want to Blame WHITE PEOPLE for Slavery . BUT the Fact is it started with Black People selling other Black people first . Didnt it
#11.2 - Sat Mar 5, 2011 4:48 PM PST
Steve-505729
And Bev
Please. When you get one of the TEXT books and not some Article Written by some guy that is nothing more then an OPINION piece then go ahead and tell me what is Actually in it. and Not what some left Wing Finatic Claims is going to be in it.
#11.3 - Sat Mar 5, 2011 5:58 PM PST
This is from that Post Bev and it SEEMS you are the one the Brought up the SLAVE TRADE first Didnt you bev. in the Words of Charlie Sheen. SPINNING .. DOH.
this is yoru problem BEV dont try and blame me for something you started. but you still Cant accept the Fact that Black people sold Black people into Slavery. Pathetic HUMAN you are BEV. see I can go back and Trace my posts too.
Nate,
Your words do not fall on deaf ears. Race has become a socially constructed barrier used to manipulate mankind----This is a sorry fact. As long as race is used to separate, we will always be separated.
I just finished a class on the history of Christianity and I have to tell you, it was a most disturbing and ugly experience. The formation of the Church was inundated with corruption, slime, greed and blatant immorality. It's amazing Christianity actually survived.
The Old Testament is a collection of very scary stories - wrath of God, fire and brimstone, pillars of salt, armies and battles and destruction. (And can anybody really explain to me the point of the Book of Numbers?) The Hope is found in the New Testament when the 10 Commandments were replaced by two - love God and your neighbor. If only we'd all adhere to those rules.
Those who seek a better life can, with toil and sweat and effort. How true. Add individuality, being self sufficient, helping others without force or gain, empathy and compromise.
Well, a girl can dream, right?
On topic....I didn't get to see the hearings. Sometimes in a controversial and precarious situation, the questioned has an opportunity and forum to provide answers.
Steve-505729
Bev you are a LYING DISGUSTING HUMAN this is what you WROTE .. errr copy and pasted
Some pretty big ones!
This is from that Post Bev and it SEEMS you are the one the Brought up the SLAVE TRADE first Didnt you bev. in the Words of Charlie Sheen. SPINNING .. DOH.
this is yoru problem BEV dont try and blame me for something you started. but you still Cant accept the Fact that Black people sold Black people into Slavery. Pathetic HUMAN you are BEV. see I can go back and Trace my posts too.
=================================================================
You know what Steve, you a-h*le, I've discovered not only are you a pathetic, little, racist; you're also ignorant. I did accept it; but I also said African resisted @-hole. I also said this from the same post...
NONETHELESS, THESE SAME CHRISTIANS ENSLAVED AND ABUSED THE AFRICAN UNDER THE GUISE OF CHRISTIANITY. Yes, there were Africans who sold others into slavery; however, this linkage happened as a result of tribal wars and the political systems. Africans resisted slave catchers!!!
That makes you 2x times ignorant and a liar.;because you can't read
You asked for a text book not a copy and pasted opinion. I guess you think I carry text books around me. Anyhow, yes I copied what the Texas school board did. The reason it's big is because I could not change the font is because this site does not allow the font size, color or style to be adjusted.
Texas Conservatives Win Curriculum Change
By JAMES C. McKINLEY Jr.
Published: March 12, 2010
AUSTIN, Tex. — After three days of turbulent meetings, the Texas Board of Education on Friday approved a social studies curriculum that will put a conservative stamp on history and economics textbooks, stressing the superiority of American capitalism, questioning the Founding Fathers’ commitment to a purely secular government and presenting Republican political philosophies in a more positive light.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html
The next thing, whether it was defending the way slavery was introduced, it does matter. You are hung upon Black people and always will start denigrating Blacks. Well, it this point it's irrelevant. Since I have a low tolerance for ignorance I have decided to ignore your ignorant @aa.
Good bye bigot, you are not raising my BP.
Bev it is you that is the RACIST you hate White people and EVEN THE HOST here at FR know you are.
You lied and Claimd i brought something up about RACE when it was you that Brought up SLAVERY.
You hate it when you are Proven Wrong Bev Your own Words Proved you a LIAR
RACIST
Steve-505729
Bev it is you that is the RACIST you hate White people and EVEN THE HOST here at FR know you are.
You lied and Claimd i brought something up about RACE when it was you that Brought up SLAVERY.
You hate it when you are Proven Wrong Bev Your own Words Proved you a LIAR
RACIST
I'm only responding to you idiot because I need documented proof that I hate White people and EVEN THE HOST here at FR know I am.
I demand whatever correspondence the host have shared with you stating I hate white people. You do know you if you cannot produce this evidence you have slandered the hosts?
Steve-505729
I demand whatever correspondence the host have shared with you stating I hate white people. You do know you if you cannot produce this evidence you have slandered the hosts?
If that's that case, as you say, I will not spend any more time on a duplicitous web site. I know that is what you want you separatist bigot. But, guess what? It ain't gonna happen because I don't believe you can produce any thing remotely to your claim; you RACIST LIAR.
Not only are you a lying racist but you have the mind of small child. All this back and forth calling me a liar and racist proves it.
Grow up!!!
Also, Steve if you have evidence from anyone else that the hosts may have communicated "I hate White people" I would like that proof too. Again it's not happening, I don't believe, because you are a LIAR!!!
Bev, Whether they Admit it on this Thread or not is here nor there. Most people that come here see your RACIST RANTS. The hosts have even Seen them They know it to be the Truth. I dont have to provide anything that resembles anything you Desire. .
You Claimed
You sick little racist bigot; hardly is there a day you don't inject race(racism). Why don't you crawl back under you rock? proof from a thread that had a topic which had nothing whatsoever to do with race or racism yet you brought it up...
No where you find any place where i have Ever exhibited any type of RACISM . Calling out Black on Black Slavery is not Racism. You also claimed that I brought Race to a Topic that had nothing to do with the Topic at Hand when i proved that you infact BROUGHT UP SLAVERY YOU are a LIAR You are the ONE THAT BROUGHT IT UP. But i understand BEV you want to Say whatever it is you like and me a RACIST BROWN PERSON SHOULD SHUT THE F UP RIGHT BEV. YOU THINK YOU ARE SUPERIOR TO BE BECAUSE YOU ARE BLACK Listen hear you racist BIGOTTED LIAR dont you ever tell me what i can say or can't. BECAUSE YOU FEEL PICKED ON BY WHITE PEOPLE IS NOT MY PROBLEM . RACIST . ITS YOUR. YOU have ZERO RIGHT TO TELL THIS BROWN PERSON WHAT TO DO.
Steve, Bob and the others are quite quick to say, "yea, but" the last two years President Obama spent more..... it seems small minds fail to grasp that the reason President Obama spent more was the Great Recession; it times of crises, it is what every president, republican or democrat has always done (minus Herbert Hoover and we know how that worked out--Great Depression). AND if Bush and his GOP had not passed unsustainable tax cuts benefiting mostly the rich, doubled the national debt, spent more without funding it, kept expenditures OUT OF THE BUDGET like two wars, hurricane recovery money then the Bush budgets would have been massive. They also ignore that it was the GOP that held 98% (likely these yawning posters) tax cuts hostage to ensure that the rich got richer. So, please, if one must discuss "clueless", I'd suggest that Steve, Bob and pals look in the mirror.
Jody, terrific post and valid points. We must not forget the past or we are doomed to repeat it. I too grow weary of the "BLAH, BLAH Debt Service, BLAH, BLAH, Deficit, BLAH, BLAH, Obama" conversation that takes place here on a daily basis. You would think that Steve, Bob, Spanky, JAS1, NJNB, etc. would get that we don;t support massive spending and adding to the debt, but this is what the times dictate must happen in order to restore our once great economy. I think that mainly their enjoyment comes from beating dead horses.
Wasn't this supposed to be about radical Islam? ...or Islam in general? Just read the Torah, the Bible, and then the Koran. Figure it all out.
"About 40 percent of Pew survey respondents in February 2011 said that the Islamic faith tends to foster violence more than other religions, while 42 percent said it does not."
That's because of the lousy reporting by our media. Why don't they report on the thousands of innocent people killed each your by suicide bombers and militants among the Hindus, the Buddhists and the Christians? Why is it that only mass killings of innocent people by Muslims are reported?
Obviously, there must be a conspiracy by the anti-Muslim media around the World.
PS - For those who don't understand cynicism, this is an example.
Charles Arlington Heights, IL ' "The deficit for 2007 was what -$158 billion? Obama busts that yearly deficit in one month - by $75 billion!" Nope. You are comparing Apples and Oranges. The 2007 numbers don't include war spending'
My oh my. We have another one that doesn't understand how the government works Here's a 'news flash';
The Deficit includes EVERYTHING spent by the government in each year - yes, even the war spending.
NO ROY. We have explained this to you before. The deficit DOES NOT include "everything" The growth in our national debt each year, and the size of our annual deficit, rarely match. Bush added much more to the National DEBT than the sum of his annual deficits because he funded his choices "OFF BUDGET".
In the 1950s, Congressional hearings were held which were protested as a vicious slur against an entire ethnic group.
Robert Kennedy and Estes Kefauver led Congressional hearings on the Mafia.
Italian Americans protested it as an ethnic stereotype.
Actually, the movie the Godfather wasnt too far off--The Mafia did fund groups which were protesting the slur against Italians.
The hearings were a success, and helped take down the Mafia's influence.
Last I heard, Italian Americans were better off for it, and there was no lasting prejudice against Italians.
But today, there cant even be a hearing on the obvious threat of radical Islam. As Bill O'Reilly has said, pretending and hiding the problem only redounds to the negative for the vast majority of patriotic peaceful Muslim-Americans.
Everyone must play the aggrieved 'victim' ....
"All Muslims are on trial" ..the usual hyperbole.
....last I heard, Muslims weren't waiting in line to leave this country....
There were hearing about the Mafia and organized crime which included all of the criminal organizations that were home grown as well as imported regardless of religion.
Which brings me to the next point. The Mafia is a criminal organization, Islam is a religion. The fact that some people seem to believe those terms are interchangable is what makes this an issue. If even one law abiding tax paying U.S. citizen (who happens to be muslim) has there rights violated by this every one associated with Tea party and Bill Orielly better get there signs out.
By this logic Tea Partiers shoud have been waiting in line to leave the county after HCR passed. This come across as implying that Muslims are somehow less American than non-Muslims.
True American,
I have fought and fought alongside Muslims. I am a christian man who will honestly tell you there are just as many Christians who misinterpret the bible (for there own purposes) as there are Muslims who misinterpret the Koran (for there own purposes).
No disrespect here but why do you feel the need to call yourself True American? It feels like you are attempting to monopolize being American and what that means. My thought is if you use your own name people should be be able to tell by the content of your words whether or not you are a "True American".
It is deliberate misreading, True American. They must stick to the talking point, because they have no ability to think critically on their own. Kind of like zombies, although they might, actually, be better off if they DID eat some brains.
But, I digress. The "blue box" on this article has some zombie asking why no hearings on those who blow up abortion clinics- pretty simple answer-
Those homicidal morons do not represent a danger to thousands of people. They do not fly planes into buildings. They do not plot to blow up subway systems during rush hours. Ditto bridges.
They do not seek to unleash biological weapons on cities. They do not plot to open fire on unarmed citizens by the dozens, or hundreds.
They, in their misguided, idiotic zeal, take on specific targets that they feel, ( funny how like liberals they are), are warranted due to their single minded, off center belief system. I mean, you cannot simultaneously be against murder, and commit it, now, can you?
Not so the terrorists- they are driven by a zealotry we cannot fathom. They are manipulated based on their faith, true, but they seek to kill as many as possible in a single strike, and not a single object of their malign belief.
Obviously, moat of you against these hearings were not yet born by 9/112001. If you were, you now believe it was a badly written made for T.V. Movie.
Also, you are blind to reality. Hallmark of the liberal, I know. Nonetheless, not helpful.
No Jo
Was your post intended for me? Am I the one you claim is "blind to reality"? If so I will tell you all of the examples you have given have been tactics used by terrorist around the world not just Muslims. Which seems to immediately discredit the targeting of only Muslims in this inquiry.
I also have a request if you don't mind. I am not a liberal but I am a fan of the truth. Will you please give me a few examples of terrorist that are "like liberals" or have shown liberal views.
Not being a religious scholar, or in fact religious at all, I was wondering if anyone could help me understand the term "Infidel" particulary as it is repeatedly used in the Koran.
Also, why does it seem that the muslim terrorist always scream Allah Akbar as they commit their heinious acts?
Furthermore No Jo,
The tragedy on 9/11 was real enough for me to enlist back into the military as an infantryman and seek vengeance. Fortunately I learned a very important lesson in my time in the sand box. I learned in most cases vengeance is not justice. Especially when the victims of your vengeance are not the ones responsible for the tragedy.
Spanky:
Beats me. In my church, we learned "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus, going on before; Christ the royal Master, leads against the foe; forward into battle, see His banners go ...."
http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh575.sht
What do you suppose Jesus would have thought about that, had He heard it? I'm not religious, either, and I'm certainly not as smart as you are, Spanky, but I think I know the answer to this one.
Or, am I wrong? Was that just a metaphor for some benign, but unknown, thing, like those "Second Amendment solutions"?
And if you don't mind, please refresh my recollection, Spanky: In Whose name, again, did Christians engage in the Crusades? I believe the word "infidel" was bandied about a good bit there, too.
And Who was it again, that told George W. Bush to invade Iraq?
Could it be .... God?
True,
Thanks for the clarification on your name.
I want to give you an example of how something in the bible could also be used by zealots to justify violence. Remember we are a nation who was not founded on the Koran so certain things in it can be misunderstood even when they seem obvious. In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.” If this were read in the middle east today they may see it as our military being religious zealots called to a "Crusade" by our former President.
I am not saying the Koran and the Bible have equal spiritual meaning in my life. I am saying people (especially religious leaders) can take words from there "holy teachings" and twist them to drive people to commit heinous acts.
Why I believe it was god Anna M. And that's god with a capital G. Not to be confused with the god of small things, a low case god.
And I ain't never been to no church [well ok there was this one time when I was 16 and trying to get some off a hot "little christian soldier"] but I hope them christian pastors and priests don't say "onward christian soldier, go kill all non believers."
Hey and great news - I actually found the spell check button. Do they got one for grammar?
They don't do they?
True American
We who have served do what we can. I don't bring up my service to get special attention I just wanted to bring Nojo into focus.
You spoke those words like a someone who has read a line or two in the bible. Now imagine if you didn't have that insite to draw from. The same can be said for the average Muslim about how they percieve the the passage that you quoted above. I understand your point and appreciate you listening to mine.
You are correct. Radical Islamists are pressuring other Muslims to commit to the cause. Just like that crazy church that protest at military funerals tells other Christians they are going to hell for not following them. To your point that is why we as a nation have to let Muslims who go through the lawful process of immigration know and feel that they are full fledge American citizens. To disenfranchise them only makes it more difficult for them to resist the pressures of radical Islamists who preach they will never be accepted by us. What these inquiries are doing is basically telling American citizens because of where you come from and what religion you practice we do not trust that you are as committed to America until after we get a closer look at you. If we believe in the Constitution that logic is wrong.
Tom---thank you for your service and for sharing your thoughts. You said what I've been thinking better than I can say it----of course we need to address the radicals but we also need to acknowledge the religious freedoms of all Americans.
9/11 didn't awaken most Americans to anything. They were spoon-fed a religion and race baiting falsehood, to justify moving American military forces into position on either side of Iran. Read the "Grand Chessboard" and open your eyes to what we will do to get our way. Falseflag attacks are nothing new to our geopolitical bag of tricks.
It's not the individual traditional "Muslim" that should be on trial. The ethnic group needs to be respected. It is the doctrine of Islam and it's many interpretations that need examination. We need to read the Koran, Hadith, and Tassirs, as well as understand sharia law in detail.
From first appearances and based on practical examples of its implemetation, Islam doesn't look so good in the modern world.
Do the imperatives and directives of Islam's author incite the extremist tactics that we observe? Are the genocidal and homocidal stories in the hadith true, and do they need redressing for modern interpretation. How do we deal with the polemics against music, dogs, pork, feminine expression, homosexuality, atheism, apostasy, alcohol, disbelief, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, "blasphemy", etc...
The implicit nature of disbelief is that neither Allah, nor Gabriel spoke to Mohammed, but that the Koran is wholly authored by Mohammed and his subordinate scribes. This belief of the infidel is considered blasphemy if expressed openly.
The underlying causation of the clash in the west is the violent reaction against perceived insensitivity in a culture that values candor. The suicide bomber is the result of conviction that the disbeliever must be destroyed by prescription in order to appease the mandated honor of Allah. Disbelief will always be considered as a form of blasphemy.
Here is a statement from an Islamic website directed to the believers:
"The claim that man descended from an apelike ancestor is false and unacceptable. Therefore, it is correct to assume that anyone who espouses this theory is a Kafir (disbeliever). The most correct view is that whoever believes this theory while knowing the ruling of Shari`ah in this regard is a Kafir and such a person then belie Allah, His Messenger and the Qur'an which gives a clear description of the creation of Adam ."
This states that one who believes in evidentary science is labeled with a demeaning term "Kafir". The message is clear. Does one who has been labeled or targeted respond? I think it is in our nature.
This is what goes on trial!!!!!!!!!!
Charles the hammerhead
Gee, the statement sounds very much like ultra right Christian dogma only with their view of the Bible. If you don't believe what they believe, you are a disbeliever. You know, extremists from any religion are going too far for most of us out here and should be left out of our politics! Should we have a campaign to eliminate the far right religious fanatics who are pushing our elected politicians to do their bidding now?
Jennifer-2446215
Why is it that Islam cannot answer for itself? Whenever there is a confrontation it becomes "well...there are christian fundies who do the same" as if it justifies the action of Islamists. Answer for Islam please and don't try to play the "double standard" trick.
And by the way, Christian doctrinists have been on trial many many times, Dover, Scopes, Engel vs Vitale, Abington vs Schemp, etc.... Science and the first ammendment always takes precedent.
The current problem with blowing up civilian transportation and infrastructure targets and planting bombs intended to cause mass civilian casualties is not a current tactic of Christians, Hindus, Jews, Shintoists, Bhuddists, Janists, Sikhs, or any other cult than Islam. These are not isolated incedents, (as was the Oklahoma City bomb), they are tactical trends with 100's of examples. The massive increase in airport security cannot be attributed to Coptics terrorists can it? Let's be honest and stop blaming everybody else for the issues within Islam.
I am not pro Islam. I am a Christian. What I disagree with in the hearings that Peter King is holding is, that he targets a whole community. If you are Jewish, you should be uncomfortable with this approach. If you are Black, Hispanic, left or right or what ever. I am all for going after terrorists, hopefully, at a smaller financial and human cost than going into Iraq cost the country. Just go after the terrorists not the community or use it for a diversion, which is what I think is actually going on here.
What I find amazing is that Peter King supports terrorism as a means to a political end, so long as he agrees with the political aims of the terrorists.
I concede that that point, while worthy of note, says nothing about whether or not an inquiry is appropriate. Of course, if you don't agree with King, he just might lend material support to a group of terrorists that will kill innocent civilians while trying to murder you. He has done it before.
The more I think about this the more it seems insane. I just read about this today on First Read and the link to the New York Times article. Why is this not a bigger problem? I find this outrageous. The guy supports terrorism and now he is Homeland Security Committee Chairman.
It is a gianormous waste of time - we all know [because they keep telling us] that global warming is the single biggest threat to our national security.
Charles, do you find that to be accurate, and if not are you troubled by the recent hearing that Boxer had on global warming? Valuable use of resources, that hearing?
Both hearings are probably a waste of resources. I don't see how anything useful could come of them.
Exactly. But without the dog and pony shows what would the good congress people do? At least if they are putting on shows they are not coming up with more crappy laws.
Spanky, we actually agree on something!
We also agree I have terrible grammar. And shoot you told me the proper way to bust out "it begs the question" but I already forgot.
Bob, I found it hard to respond to your nonsense about what Americans approve of bombing and I do believe the right wing militia movement has a bit of bombing and terrorism in its past and oh maybe the KKK killing little black girls. I am sure others can come up with other American groups who fit your description.
Wasn't Mr. King th guy who supported the IRA before? This has more a hint of McCarthysm than trying to find the truth. And this guy waited 10 years? What a hypocrite moron full of need of attention.
Archeology over the years have found evidence that Muslims were here in America during the Spanish Inquisition, when Muslims were targeted way back when. It is written that the Muslims were here before 1492, when Columbus discovered America.
Of course, the Jews were targeted as well during the Inquisition, as they were again during the rise of fascism in Europe in the 1930's.
And there is speculation Nancy Hanks, Abraham Lincoln's mother - was a Muslim, which in turn would mean our 16th President - our most beloved President - was as well.
No ones knows.
Nice to know we've come a long way since the Middles Ages. Leave it to the GOP. Only we're going further back, to the Dark Ages with these idiots in the Republican Party.
Rep. King may want to check out white supremists.
Lincoln was most certainly not "our" most beloved president if you define "our" as yours AND mine. He was an over-reaching federalist who used a convenient political issue of his day to push a Federal agenda that began the slow but steady erosion of states' rights for the next 200 years. But, that's rather beside the point here.
You say "It is written that the Muslims were here before 1492. . . " What's your point?
It is also "written" that Area 51 houses live aliens, the railyard in Beech Grove, Indiana is a secret crematorium being readied for the coming holocaust, that global warming is both a complete fabrication and the certain end of the earth, and that commodities speculation actually stabilizes the markets.
Even if a few muslims did find their way to this continent, very likely as crewmen on sailing ships and hardly surprising given the Arabs' early role in maritime navigation and global trade, so what?
Maybe it's besides the point. But your reaction to Lincoln's repair of a broken nation, the use of force through war to compell the southern states to free thier slaves is very telling....
Yes, Abraham Lincoln was/is one of our most admired Presidents, usually listing after George Washington and before FDR.
Leaders during the Revolutionary War, Civil War and WWII.
1, 2, 3 - poll after poll after poll.
My point is no point. Just an interesting story.
What's YOUR point?
I have NEVER heard of an Atheist Terrorist!
All religious denominations are the problem.
"Muslims were here in America during the Spanish Inquisition, when Muslims were targeted way back when.."
Ah, the moonbat view of history as the mean evil Western civilization picking on the poor innocent rest of the world...
Muslims targeted? Actually, Christian Europe was under assault; the powerful Muslim army conquered Spain, and made it to the gates of Vienna...Muslims were very close to conquering Europe....you wish they did , no doubt.
So Pat, does most beloved equal number one?
Which is it?
Bob:
This wasn't directed at me, but my answer would be no. I don't like religious tyrants of any variety. It does, however, beg the question of where was God while all this was going on? Why didn't He just go "POOF" and make it all go away? And why did He let September 11 happen?
I can't wait for "The Lord works in mysterioius ways," which is what most Christians say in response to the paradoxes posed by their own beliefs. Or may God was just taking "free will" out for a spin.
Osama bin Laden's "free will."
I got this oneAM - Capital G god must have lost a bet with allah, but then as those damned muslims got to Vienna, allah got all up into his 76 virgin's business.
And it's a good thing, cause them muslims don't seem to care all that much for your kind [you know uppity, aggressive female attys.].
LoL Which part of that am I supposed to disagree with?
All of it on general principle.
Most Beloved President(s)
The C-SPAN Survey of Presidential Leadership consists of rankings from a group of presidential historians and "professional observers of the presidency" who ranked presidents in a number of categories initially in 2000 and more recently in 2009. With some minor variation, both surveys found that historians consider Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, and Franklin D. Roosevelt the three best presidents by a wide margin and William Henry Harrison (to a lesser extent), Warren G. Harding, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, and James Buchanan the worst.
Abraham Lincoln is often considered the greatest president for his leadership during the American Civil War and his eloquence in speeches such as the Gettysburg Address.
As he should be.
"often considered..."
But see Washington could have been a frigging king and could have held power indefinitely, but choose not too. Lincoln was good, but after all he was a stinking lawyer, so automatic strike against him.
Lincoln a lawyer. Washington a stinking slaveholder. Six of our presidents were slaveholders I believe.
Lincoln a lawyer who freed slaves. He wins.
Ted, Michigan:
So is yours. IMAGINE using force to compel the South to free its slaves. What kind of degenerate human beings would ever "conceive of liberty and dedicate it to the proposition that all men are created equal"?
I'll defy JoAnna here and answer my own question: Those would be the enlightened ones.
But what in God's name are YOU?
Miker:
Beside the point? I don't think so. But I AM beginning to see the true radical right agenda shining through both these posts. And I hope others are paying attention to this.
Slavery as a "convenient political issue of the day to push a Federal agenda ...." Setting aside for a moment, the totally clueless bigotry and cynical callousness of this remark -- IN THE MIDDLE take notice -- it reminds me eerily of what's happening now: "budget crisis" as a "convenient issue of the day" being exploited to push a radical states' rights agenda. Only NOT to free anyone, but rather to enslave them.
I call this poor excuse for rhetorical technique projection. And very SCARY. Both of you.
Anna Molly
Slavery as a "convenient political issue of the day to push a Federal agenda ...." Setting aside for a moment, the totally clueless bigotry and cynical callousness of this remark -- IN THE MIDDLE take notice -- it reminds me eerily of what's happening now: "budget crisis" as a "convenient issue of the day" being exploited to push a radical states' rights agenda. Only NOT to free anyone, but rather to enslave them.
I call this poor excuse for rhetorical technique projection. And very SCARY. Both of you.
I agree.
Miker-3057253
Lincoln was most certainly not "our" most beloved president if you define "our" as yours AND mine. He was an over-reaching federalist who used a convenient political issue of his day to push a Federal agenda that began the slow but steady erosion of states' rights for the next 200 years. But, that's rather beside the point here.
You say "It is written that the Muslims were here before 1492. . . " What's your point?
The Sung Document is a work of a Chinese author circa 1178, during the Song Dynasty. It states that Muslim sailors reached a region called "Mu-Lan-Pi", which, though normally identified as Spain, has been claimed to be some part of the Americas (specifically, present-day California.)
If the document is authentic, and furthermore if the identification of Mu-Lan-Pi with America is correct, then it is one of the earliest records of pre-Columbian trans-oceanic travel from the Eurasian continent to the Americas. However both the authenticity of the Sung Document and the identification of Mu-Lan-Pi with America are doubtful. The historian Joseph Needham is open to the possibility but doubts that Arabic ships at the time would have been able to withstand a return journey over such a long distance across the Atlantic Ocean and points out that a return journey would have been impossible without knowledge of prevailing winds and currents. Needham states that there is no evidence that these were known five centuries before the Portuguese used them.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sung_Document
I can't speak for Pat; but if Muslims were here in the Americas then, were they terrorizing? That would be my point of view.
Most Americans seem as if they would rather accept the status-quo historical indoctrination rather than be exposed to something that could potentially "rock their world". Not only does the typical US history textbooks leave out such information as Pre-Columbian contact in the Americas by other nations and peoples, but they also leave out large, relevant, factual portions of the history that they do address and would rather report tales of George Washington "chopping down the cherry tree" than truthful "no holds barred" history.
Just look at the American Indian and the official version of "American History". They have pretty much relegated us to museums, tipis and buckskins. They make our history seem to be nothing more than attacking wagon trains, Indian Wars, and how to plant corn. Or they make it seem our history is nothing more than meeting and greeting the "Pilgrims", celebrating "Thanksgiving", Squanto, how Europeans were the greatest thing to benefit Indians since fry bread, and some more planting corn. All depends on which version of history they want to offer.
"There are many documents, treaties, legislation and resolutions that were passed between 1600s and 1800s that show that Muslims were in fact here and were very active in the comunities in which they lived."
These treaties were initiated between the British Colonial Government, and then the American Government after them, between those governments and Muslim Nations and their citizens as will be shown. This does not imply that these particular nations had contacts or influence upon American Indian nations, but it does prove that Muslims have had a presence in this country even in Colonial times. So Muslims have just as much right to be here in America as some Euro-Americans whose families came over later than these Muslims.
Read more: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=49.5;wap2#ixzz1GGSeBVWf
I think we see the reason for the hearings now in the statistic that 89% of Muslims are not Republicans. I was wondering what new knowledge could be gained from the use of government resources to conduct these hearings instead of focusing on jobs and now I see that it must be about playing to the base of the Republican party.
How great that over 70% believe that they can get ahead with hard work.
You did catch that part about how muslims tend to NOT support homosexuality, right?
Heck, Miker, we don't need none them muslims NOT to support homosexuality. We got plenty of intolerant Christians to do that. A few muslims in the mix probably won't make much difference there.
thou (community) without no sin.....cast the first stone. stop religion bashing. stop wasting our tax money, our time. 8.7% Americans are jobless.
Hate IS a full-time job. And that's their jobs program.
It's all hate coming from these Republican guys directed at Muslim Americans.
How about if Peter King holds hearings to investigate the radicalization of the groups whose sole purpose is to harass, murder, and injure those who provide legal abortion services. How about if Peter King holds hearings to "have a conversation" about the right-wing militias--remember Timothy McVey. How about if Peter King holds hearings to investigate the radicalization of some within the evangelical Christian religion.
I do not defend radical Muslims but I also do not defend radicals of any faith, any group--right or left. Murder is murder. While I understand the concern, it is simply wrong to single out any one group to investigate. There are plenty of non-Islamic radical groups homegrown in the USA. Investigate them all if you investigate any. Perhaps the better solution is not hearings but rather groups of Muslims, nonMuslims, legislators, experts meeting weekly to discuss how each can work to diminish radicalization. What I do not like about King's hearings is that it reminds me too much of the McCarthy communist investigations--those started out sensibly with reasonable dialogue and became a witch hunt which caused great harm to people and the country.
Great post, Jody. *stands and applauds* No one defends radical Muslims. I have yet to hear an explanation of why we need to have hearings specifically focused on radical Muslims. Do we really need any hearings of this type?
Jody:
IS he targeting you? Blackmen have been targeted forever but I bet you never had a problem with that. Do you still cross the street to get away when a blackman is approaching?
I do not have a problem with this.
You need to get out of Iowa more.
I don't remember being affected by the McCarthy hearings. What harm did it cause the country? Are you considering harm as being it made some people mad?
Are you saying ITM that because you've been targeted it's alright to target others?
ITM,
Unfortunately you seem to be playing directly into (R) stereotype that it doesn't matter as long as it's not happening to me and mine.
Well, ITM, if someone has targeted you, I'm sorry for that but it was not me. As for the rest of your nonsensical remark--no, I do not cross the street in fear of whatever bogeyman conservatives like YOU think might be lurking around every corner. BTW, I lived in San Diego for 21 years and where I live or lived has nothing to do with this discussion.
Jody: post of the day! Thanks.
IntheMiddle, TX
I don't remember being affected by the McCarthy hearings. What harm did it cause the country? Are you considering harm as being it made some people mad?
No inthemiddle, those hearing turn people against each other. McCarthy even went after Ed morrow and CBS for his work during WW2 with Russian journalist. Mccarthy tried to say morrow was a communist. his show as scaled down and canceled.
After those hearing average people were spying on there neighbors look at what they read, what groups the belong to, yes those hearing did more harm than good, in the end McCarthy was cencored in congress and died in shame!!!!
I hope this happens to King, Inthemiddle his is a Hyprocite, given his support for the Irish republican army that the US said was a terrorist group!! but i guess to King Irish terrorist are nothing like Muslim terrorist right.
Jody:
Where you live has a lot to do with how you see things in life. Being a conservative does not have a damn thing to do with the analogy I made of you crossing the street. I don't cross the street so that little snipet about lurking around the corner does not pertain to me. Stop trying to flip it, my question was to you.
BTW: How many muslims do you know?
ITM:
And have YOU stopped beating your wife?
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Sad, sad excuse for rhetorical technique in lieu of an argument. In the PUBLIC school that I attended, which was unionized, we got past THAT one in about seventh grade.
Oh, I forgot. You're from Texas, first in debt, last in education. So sorry. For you.
This remark cannot possibly be serious. Either that, or you are simply not qualified to comment.
Actually, I'm beginning to think that it's the Mrs. who's kicking the shyt out of the foul mouthed midget!
It would go a long way to explain why he's always such a WHINER! ;o)
Feisty please refresh our recollections: what is the first rule of the First Read code of conduct?
Why do you believe that the rules do not apply to you?
But thank you so much for yet another very valuable contribution to the discussion.
Hey Anna M - you want to explain this to Fiesty? She has clearly missed to boat.
Gee Spanky was she chewing gum in class too?
Who died and made me school marm?
No.
Real democrats they are - want bigger government that provides more services. When can we have a discussion without bringing in abortion???
In this case we could of had a discussion without bringing in abortion if there weren't non-Muslim home grown terrorist organisations trying to kill abortion providers. The fact of their existence makes them uniquely relevant to this discussion.
Ans: We'll stop bringing it into the discussion when radical Christian groups stop targeting clinics and physicians because they provide a legal service.
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Mr. Ferguson. Quite appropriate reminder. It seems today we have a double, they've come for both the unionists and those of the Muslim faith.
was that Bonhoffer?
x
Oh the hysteria. The hearings seem perfectly reasonable to me. I am not sure what all the hysteria is about.
People aren't just shouting and yelling nonsense. They are forming arguments and expressing opinions. What I don't understand is how you can call what people are saying hysteria while at the same time not know what it is about. If you come to the opinion that someone else's response is hysteria, don't you necessarily have to know what they are saying in order to call it hysteria?
McCarthy's hearings were perfectly reasonable in the beginning, too.
I would like to apologize to the American Muslims for the ignorance of so many other American citizens. They are spreading the fear, anger and hatred that they have learned from their own form of a terrorist organization known as Fox News. Fox news believes that the definition of a terrorist organization is one that spreads fear, anger and hatred of others throughout their organization and those followers carry out acts of terrorism. Yep, Fox News is a terrorist organization all right by their own definition.
Great post, Diane. I hope Muslim Americans realize that most of us value them and their contributions to our society.
Sanity and reason, I would like to apologize for Diane R., she blames a high rated news network for all kinds of imaginary things...
really,
Diane R
Fox news believes that the definition of a terrorist organization is one that spreads fear, anger and hatred of others throughout their organization and those followers carry out acts of terrorism.
Is this in the bylaws of the Corporation..... perhaps you could show me where Fox news cites this as one of their beliefs. Or perhaps its just your Opinion. My belief is its just the Latter........
Don't apologize for me, thanks but no thanks. I don't listen to Fox and even if I did I form my own opinions and fears. Here is a fact Radical Muslims exist, A Muslim today 2 in fact testified to that. Radical Muslims plot daily to harm and kill Americans and people who won't conform such as Muslims who are moderate and don't feel they need to kill in the name of God. Our some people ignorant in classifying all Muslims as radical yes, this goes with everything. I'm over people apologizing for American Citizens......the Pres, the wife, people like you.....I will apologize when and if I do something wrong.
I'll second that, Diane R. Well said.
diane r you need to switch to ice tea and get off the kool aid.
if you think FOX i terrorist org., then you have to agree that CAIR is.
if you do not agree, then your are a fear mongering racist
Greg?
LOL got redeye much
lots of grumpy conservative republicans here! careful about the Muslims because as Americans, we have separation of church and state. Ain't no Sharia law here, nor will there ever be. And don't make this whole situation smack of McCARTHYISM!!! think about it..... I know of conservative Republicans who STILL think McCarthy was right. Even after Soviet communism turned out to be a red herring (pun intended!).
I knew it eventually someone would blame Fox News for this...Listen up people if your so against this then try to remember what it must of felt like to pick up the pieces of all those killed in 9-11. Now remember this to this day they are still finding remnants of innocent multi-raced victims. scattered throughout New York City, Washington D.C. and Pennsylvania. Now think of it this way. In the forties they built concentration camps after the last terrorist attack...Pearl Harbor. I'm not trying to be insensitive here, but the Japanese has forgiven us...so will the Muslim Americans, Democrat or Republican remember this country WILL NOT survive without both.
Pearl Harbor was not a terrorist attack. A uniformed Navy attacked a military installation manned by American military forces. FDR was made well aware of the impending attack long before it took place. A sub was sunk by US Naval forces before the Jap planes arrived. The RADAR warnings were ignored. 9/11 was an inside job, much like the USS LIBERTY falseflag attack. We kill Americans ourselves to justify our subsequent choices to kill Arabs and Muslims, it is basic geopolitics. And the only people being fooled are the American Sheeple.
you did just say the Muslims will forgive us.....so you must then agree this is wrong then!
He doesn't care if it is wrong; "The ends justify any means."
Did we forget the fact that 60 American muslims (not including the terrorists) also perished in the disaster of 9/11? Just saying.
Muslims in America are not the enemy; it's our own bankers, Wall Street, CEOs and government who support them. There really is a war against the Americans; its the big corporations!
On our countries current trajectory Muslims really shouldn't be who Mr. King or anyone else in D.C.'s worries about.
"Almost eight in 10 American Muslims say that such attacks (suicide bombings) are never defensible"
...So that leaves 20% of American Muslims who say that suicide bombings (i.e. murder) is sometimes justified in defense of Islam??? That is close to 1.4 million American Muslims according to the council on American-Islamic Relations.
Goodness gracious . . . could msnbc be any obvious about their lean to the left??? They're the mirror image of FOX.
But FOX "News" is "Fair and Balanced", so the mirror image of that is "decnalaB dna riaF". Forgive me if I think you are wrong.
Another Koch brother puppet !
TAQIYYA.
Look it up.
Crusades....look it up.
Religion has far too much power in deciding who gets elected and who does not. Politicians are too afraid to speak up for what they really believe, instead they have to pander to the religious sector of their constituents which although often not in the majority number enough to win or lose an election.
Its disheartening as a devout ;) Atheist to see this happening.
It's getting better, don't worry. We have several confirmed atheists in congress (such as Pete Stark). We're not alone here ;).
As Americans, first and foremost, we must fight the rise of the Theocracy, something that the far right and the Islamic fundamentalists all desire within our own shores.
True American:
Seriously, True?! Because a lot of the right-wing Christian zealots I've heard don't appear to live by the New Testament, either.
Unless you're talking about Newty here. He likes a forgiving God. He NEEDS a forgiving God.
Spanky:
Gee, thanks so much for the illumination on that, Spanky, but I didn't really need it. You see, the Flying Spaghetti Monster told me all about it. And as I am, above all things, about small things, god works for me.