Remember this little knee slapper?

(CNN) – During a speech before the National Rifle Association convention Friday afternoon in Louisville, Kentucky, former Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee - who has endorsed presumptive GOP nominee John McCain - joked that an unexpected offstage noise was Democrat Barack Obama looking to avoid a gunman.

“That was Barack Obama, he just tripped off a chair, he's getting ready to speak,” said the former Arkansas governor, to audience laughter. “Somebody aimed a gun at him and he dove for the floor.”

Americans for Prosperity Presidential Summit

Hmmm.... Now where have I heard that name before?

AFP was founded in 2004 when Citizens for a Sound Economy (CSE) split into FreedomWorks (formerly Citizens for a Sound Economy), for 501(c)(4) advocacy activity, and the Americans for Prosperity Foundation (formerly the Citizens for a Sound Economy Foundation). Dick Armey, who had become chair of CSE in 2003 after retiring from Congress,^[2] stayed as chairman of FreedomWorks, while David H. Koch stayed as Chairman of Americans for Prosperity Foundation. Like CSE, AFP was founded with the support of David H. Koch and Charles G. Koch of Koch Industries.^[3][4][5] Citizens for a Sound Economy (CSE) had been established in 1984 by David H. Koch and Charles G. Koch. "CSE received almost $5 million from various Koch foundations between 1986 and 1990, and David Koch and several Koch Industries employees serve[d] as directors of CSE and the CSE Foundation."^[6]

^{Now that wouldn't be the same Koch Brothers whose father was a founding member of the John Birch Society would it?}

^{The foundations are financed via the oil and gas fortunes of Fred C. Koch, a founding member of the John Birch Society. David is a libertarian who "provides a significant amount of funding for the Cato Institute's $4 million annual budget."}

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sourcewatch.org%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DKoch_Family_Foundations&ei=fDG8TcbKEOrL0QGqyZnhBQ&usg=AFQjCNHWhAcbK5cWqH8LnaLEI2DSrkEiqQ

^{Connect the DOTS people...}

"The audience laughed." These people are absolutely tone deaf. Where is the outrage?

OMG Feisty, I remember that Huckabee "joke." And he calls himself a minister! The same with Romney, Mr. "Holy than thou" and his rude jokes about Vice President Biden and President Obama. Republicans are truly crass.

Not only do Republicans appear crass, they cannot even understand their own gaffes. Much less own them.

Tell me there isn't a pattern here:

Rep. Sally Kern, R-Oklahoma City, said minorities earn less than white people because they don’t work as hard and have less initiative.

“We have a high percentage of blacks in prison, and that’s tragic, but are they in prison just because they are black or because they don’t want to study as hard in school? I’ve taught school, and I saw a lot of people of color who didn’t study hard because they said the government would take care of them.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/28/sally-kern-affirmative-action_n_854936.html

Any of you baggers or birthers want to take a shot at defending this?

Did you catch that?

Black folks don’t work as HARD as white people and have LESS initiative!

I had to double check the calendar this morning to confirm it’s still 2011 and not 1955!

You can put all the mayo & mustard you want on it – at the end of the day it’s still a turd sandwich!

Of course she quickly played the 'I mispoke' card that the righties keep hidden up their sleeves in cases like this:

Oklahoma state Rep. Sally Kern (R), who said this week that “blacks” don’t work as hard as white people, will not be admonished by the Oklahoma House’s GOP leadership. Kern issued a written apology claiming she “misspoke” when she said during a 10-minute floor speech on Wednesday that African Americans and women don’t work as hard as whites or men because they’re dependent on the government and men, respectively.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/29/oklahoma-gop-wont-reprimand-kern/

In keeping with traditional bagger & birther fashion - NO APOLOGY was given!

She simply mispoke for 10 minutes!

In keeping with traditional bagger & birther fashion - NO APOLOGY was given!

Correction for the typo - should read: NO REPRIMAND was given.

Sorry!

Ah ! well a-day ! what evil looks
Had I from old and young !
Instead of the cross, the Albatross
About my neck was hung.

Low for the "low information" liberals and the will fully ignorant like Feisty, it seems there was a guy named Sam Coleridge that wrote the poem "Rime of the Ancient Mariner." I'm sure the story went over Feisty's head when she was a kid in school, (she was probably flicking boogers at the smart girls), but the phrase is a metephor for a burden to be carried as penance.

That sentence probably went over your heads too, but good news ..... it's Saturday and the school kids are home to explain it to you. Of course it simply easier to just call everyone a racist, yea .... that's what we will do!

So, for the clueless, what Albatross was Romney metaphorically talking about hanging around Obama's neck?

The article above mentions Reagan (need a link Feisty?). Seems Reagan inherited a recession too. In fact the 2 worst recessions since WW II were 1981-1982 (the one Reagan inherited that last 16 months) and 2007-2009 (the one Obama inherited that lasted 18 months).

From IBD:

Unemployment? It topped out at 10.8% in the '81-'82 recession and due to Reagn's policies it fell 3.3% (by this time frame) to7.5%. In this recession unemployment topped at 10.1% and in the same time frame has dropped 1.3% to 8.8%.

Reagan's policies dropped unemployment by over twice the rate that Obama has been able to achieve.

GDP? In the seven quarters after the 1981-82 recession ended, the economy cranked out quarterly growth rates that averaged 7.1%. Under Obama, GDP growth has averaged a mere 2.8%.

Again - less than 1/2 of Reagan's performance.

Long-term unemployment? There were far fewer long-term unemployed by this point in the Reagan recovery; just 18% of the unemployed had been without a job 27 weeks or more. Under Obama, that figure is an astonishing 45%.

Consumer confidence? By this point in the Reagan recovery, the Conference Board's Consumer Confidence Index had hit 100. Today, the index stands at just 65.4.

Deficit spending? Under Reagan, the federal deficit was trimmed to 4.8% of GDP by 1984. Under Obama, the deficit is expected to climb to 10.9% of GDP this year. Obama - twice as bad again.

The libbies will say Obama inherited the worst recession since the Great Depression. The fact is that the recession was almost over when Obama took office (officially over within 6 months).

As the IBD editors say .....

So while Obama's policies had little to do with bringing an end to the Great Recession, they've had everything to do with producing what is by far the worst economic recovery in the past 70 years.

One thing that is not mentioned in the IBD piece though, is gas prices (although gas prices seem to be the topic of every other piece these days).

Obama has wantonly, deliberately crippled the energy industry. Gas prices are not comming down unless he finds Jesus or turns into a drill-baby-drill baby. This combined with his crippling of the value of the dollar will cripple the recovery.

Obama will cite the bogeymen, order investigations of fraud (decades of investigations have always uncovered .... NOTHING).

The Congressional Research Review states the United States has more natural energy resources than any other country on the planet. There is no reason to be dependent on anyone for hundreds of years!

Think this won't come up in the elections?

A year from now Obama will still believe he can bullsh!t his way out of it. It will fool the fools, but the mainstream voters, the independents won't buy it.

Another bird for the birdbrain prez ...... this time .......

Oil, oil, everywhere,

And all the jobs and business did shrink;

Oil, oil, everywhere,

Nor any drop for the middle class to afford.

Always nice to hear some poetry, even if I disagree with your political sentiments.

Ahhh there you are booby!

I see I hit a nerve! lol

Couldn't dispute what I said so, ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK toss in some spin & twist and you've made quite the word salad!

You should of thrown in the Churchill Bust NONTROVERSEY!

Palin would be proud! ;o)

There it is, the 'mispoke' & 'crab walk' defense as usual!

Romney almost immediately caught himself, with the English major declaring "metaphorically" speaking, but the mix of nervous laughter with applause indicated at least some in the audience realized its potency.

On the heels of the potential presidential candidate raising eyebrows with the remarks, Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul addressed the questionable choice of words. She told ABC News, "It is not what the governor meant and that was very clear in what he actually said." According to CNN, Romney's camp called initial reports on his remarks "a ridiculous exaggeration of his actual comments

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/30/mitt-romney-hang-obama-gaffe_n_855881.html

Ooops! I almost forgot about this one:

IRVINE, California — A California Republican official who sent out an e-mail picturing President Barack Obama's face on the body of a baby chimpanzee issued an apology late Monday after a weekend of criticism that ended with a strongly worded public rebuke from the local Republican Party chairman, who also called for an ethics investigation into the incident.

Marilyn Davenport, a 74-year-old elected member of the Orange County Republican Central Committee, sent an email Monday afternoon asking for forgiveness for her "unwise behavior," just before the local Republican committee met for its monthly summit at a hotel in Irvine.

The email sent on Friday by Davenport to a small group of Republican committee members shows an image posed like a family portrait, of chimpanzee parents and child, with Obama's face superimposed on the young chimp. Text beneath the picture reads, "Now you know why no birth certificate."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CDMQFjABOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msnbc.msn.com%2Fid%2F42656911%2Fns%2Fpolitics-more_politics%2F&ei=to28TdriHcHc0QGm2vG4BQ&usg=AFQjCNFJeNm4H_-eLPyZVltjwewYsPLCzw

Marilyn decided to go with the 'I have black friends' defense... which in turn allowed her to keep her J O B!

Feisty,

You are on a role today! Keep up the double expressos. It helps me lots. Thanks for your sources. Noticed that Bob had no sources. Gee! I'm so surprised. Bobs source? The "Dummies guide to Republican spin."

AnaBanana-1782128

Feisty,

You are on a role today! Keep up the double expressos. It helps me lots. Thanks for your sources.

Yes she is and it's a good thing.

Noticed that Bob had no sources. Gee! I'm so surprised. Bobs source? The "Dummies guide to Republican spin."

I'm not surprised; facts and reputable sources mean nothing to booby trap and other rabid right wing wackos. But made up bullsh!t does!!!

Are you watching the White House Correspondence Dinner? The President looks to be in high spirits and happy. I supposed he knows t-baggers have been comedic lately.

AnaBanana-1782128

I forget to mention how beautiful and sophisticated First Lady Michelle Obama looks. I love her hairstyle. She is so stylish. Everything she wears looks gorgeous on her.

L@@k

FL Republican Senator on Arizona-style immigration bill: who will pick my blueberries?

http://politicsmiami.com/jd-alexander-i-use-e-verify-and-its-imperfect-and-its-tough-to-find-blueberry-pickers/

================================================

These bigots just don't when to stop.

Bevery in Chicago,

It just ended. Michelle looked beautiful. The President was hilarious! I loved the video of his "birth"! And how he did make a point to let Fox News know it was a joke. I loved Seth Meyers. It was more like a Donald Trump roast. "The Donald" looked pissed! Good!

Here's the video of the President's speech.

http://anastasia-1782128.newsvine.com/_news/2011/04/30/6563017-full-video-obamas-white-house-correspondents-dinner-speech

My favorite presidential line "I just heard Michelle Bachman was actually born in Canada. This is how it starts Michelle!"

AnaBanana-1782128

My favorite presidential line "I just heard Michelle Bachman was actually born in Canada. This is how it starts Michelle!"

LOL was that to imply Michelle Bachman was not born? Maybe she is out of this world literaly and figuratively. HAH!!!

Fox Noise doesn't care if it's joke they'll use it to cook up another weird lie.

My favorite Seth Myers line at the correspondents dinner tonight? "Mr. President what has happened to your hair? Your hair is so white the Tea Party is about to endorse it!

You have got to be kidding........Michelle Obama, most of the time, dresses like she has hit every Goodwill Store and yard sale she could find.

I don't understand. Is it okay for the president to make fun of others but not the GOP?

You don't understand.

The PC crowd is out in full force.

But only because a member of the opposite party said something they could misconstrue concerning their Messiah and use as it as fodder. Now his minions cry out for justice because the Mormon wishes to hang the savior.

I highly doubt this was a 'gaffe' but, more of a 'code' word thus, the audience laughing!

Ridiculously stupid comments such as this only lessens the discourse. Too bad FR has a habit of allowing these types of comments to lead the conversation.

Gee Bob,

What was the population increase since Ragan was president being the numbers are forecasted against that actual number of the population, sounds all nice and pretty but still all BS you can't compare almost 20 years of growth to 20 years in the past .....

Bobby,

Your understanding of Colerige and The Rime is apparently on a par with your understanding of the consequences of Reaganomics and unfettered free markets in a global economy. The albatross and the cross are interpreted in numerous ways from an interpretation of Adam and original sin, closer but differing from yours to Christ and the cross and redemption through prayer to and autobiographical reference to Coleriges journey through life having been inspired by his reading of an account of a ship Captains journey throuh the Antartic and their killing of an Albatross and subsequent becalming. Just as likely it is representitive of his descent into Opium use and is the transcendent rambling of someone high as a kite. It has also been interpreted as a religious allegory of sin and redemption or with a more pantheistic interpretation of the signifigance of all parts of nature seen and unseen, birds often a god symbol to the slime and monsters unseen to be talismins of good or evil solely through the interpretation of man.

Sadly the effects of Reaganomics are more complicated and more devastating than any monsters of the deep. They were the sole creation of the Heritage Foundation in an attempt to return the US economy to the Gilded Age and to move the wealth of the nation to the smallest possible group of Robber Barons. These aforementioned Captains of Industry can be found on the Founder and Donor lists of every faux Think Tank established by Right Wing billionaires from about 1978 on. Increasing GNP by the creation of market bubbles and paper economies while destroying heavy industry, defundingthe #1 higher education system in the world, turning an industrial giant into a Service Economy whatever the hell that might be and being the root cause of FOUR major recessions and TWO market crashes during three GOP administrations encompassing 20 years is a dreadful record. The jobs created during the Reagan and both Bush Administrations netted less than the jobs lost and led to middle class contraction and an enormous debt service both public and private almost all of which is borne by the diminished middle class. This is only the tip of the METAPHORICAL iceberg and Rreagan did not inherit a Recession the 1980 Recession had ended and the 81 Recession started 7 months into his Administration an directly resulted fro his Economic policies and did not come under control until he handed over economic direction to Paul Volker whom he inherited from Carter and put the Heritage boys on the back burner. The economy did not begin to grow until his tax revisions were for the most part repealed. It must be nice to understand poetry at a high school level and to be able to put a happy face on the most destructive economic policy in US history.

JKH

Fiesty Person,

Nice call on Americans for Prosperity. I have railed for ages about the intellectual dishonesty of Right Wing "Think Tanks" and the enormous influence they exert in policy direcion and public opinion. From Heritage through The Chamber of Commerce they receive their primary funding from less than two hundred individuals and 100 Corporations mostly drawn from the Finance and/or Energy industries. For thousands of years intellectual advancement came by examining an idea, dilemma, controversy or event from all sides and arriving at well thought out conclusions based on study and observation. Sometimes the process took decades and extended through centuries the research model of the faux intellectualism of the Conservative movement is the exact opposite. A desired conclusion is determined and research and campaigns of influence are engaged. Research is almost never peer reviewed and the opinion of obsure Jr. College academics are heralded as if they were Nobel laureates. History is replete with examples such as these through which govenments, religious leaders and demagouges have distorted people, opinions and events presenting anti-intellectualism as a positive virtue weather it be Fundamentalist Muslim or Christian, Far Right American, Stalinist Russian, Facist or Communist they all drive humanity towards a new Dark Age based on the accumulation of power and/or wealth. It is the essence of Ayn Rand and of the assault of rightwing America on the basic beliefs and direction of our nation and people.

jkh

jkh

jkh -- Thanks!

Great comments! Like you, I'm more concerned about what's going on behind the 'curtain'!

If I have anything to do about it - before the 2012 election, every single voter in this country will be aware that the Koch Brothers Daddy was a founding father of the John Birch Society

I posted this earlier in the month:

Here's another illustration of the damage that's been done to our democracy, thanks to the Citizens United ruling & the KochBrothers:

On the eve of the November midterm elections, Koch Industries sent an urgent letter to most of its 50,000 employees advising them on whom to vote for and warning them about the dire consequences to their families, their jobs and their country should they choose to vote otherwise.

The election packet starts with a letter from Robertson dated October 4, 2010. It read: "As Koch company employees, we have a lot at stake in the upcoming election. Each of us is likely to be affected by the outcome on Nov. 2. That is why, for the first time ever, we are mailing our newest edition of Discovery and several other helpful items to the home address of every U.S. employee" [emphasis added].

For most Koch employees, the "helpful items" included a list of Koch-approved candidates, which was presented on a separate page labeled "Elect to Prosper." A brief introduction to the list reads: "The following candidates in your state are supported by Koch companies and KOCHPAC, the political action committee for Koch companies. We believe these candidates will best advance policies supporting economic freedom."

After guiding employees on how they should vote, the mailer devoted the rest of the material to the sort of indoctrination one would expect from an old John Birch Society pamphlet (the Koch Brothers' father, Fred Koch, was a founding member of the JBS). It offers an apocalyptic vision of the company's free-market struggle for liberty against the totalitarian forces of European Union bureaucrats and deficit-spending statists.

"Before Citizens United, federal election law allowed a company like Koch Industries to talk to officers and shareholders about whom to vote for, but not to talk with employees about whom to vote for," explains Paul M. Secunda, associate professor of law at Marquette University. But according to Secunda, who recently wrote in TheYale Law JournalOnline about the effects of Citizens United on political coercion in the workplace, the decision knocked down those regulations. "Now, companies like Koch Industries are free to send out newsletters persuading their employees how to vote. They can even intimidate their employees into voting for their candidates." Secunda adds, "It's a very troubling situation."

The Kochs were major supporters of the Citizens United case; they were also chief sponsors of the Tea Party and major backers of the anti-"Obamacare" campaign. Through their network of libertarian think tanks and policy institutes, they have been major drivers of unionbusting campaigns in Wisconsin, Michigan and elsewhere.

http://www.thenation.com/

I'm looking forward to reading more of your comments...

Jim

For you:

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2008/02/the_paul_volcker_myth.html

Your version seems a bit re-visioned.

JKH,

Impressive amount of dung slung, but .........couldn't refute any numbers, huh?

Thanks for trying.

Feisty,

You missed the best, most overt racist comment in years ......

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy, I mean, that's a storybook, man." - Joe Biden

Biden says Obama is the first African-African who is ...... articulate ....... and bright ..........and clean!

So according to Joe - all African-Americans before Obama couldn't speak intelligently, were dumb and dirty, huh?

What's more racist than that?

Foot note:

For the 20%-30% of Americans who do not know who Joe Biden is and vote Democrat ........ Joe is the current Vice President of the United States and is a Democrat.

I love when neo-cons try to intepret something as racist to quell talk about their party's own racism.

Bob, you do realize that Biden quote refers to Obama as the FIRST MAINSTREAM African American candidate, who is also articulate, and bright and clean. Not the first articulate, bright and clean African American candidate who is also mainstream.

There's an obvious difference in the reading of that sentence. One celebrates the advances African Americans have made in the national political discourse, the other is a twisting of the content of the sentence to make everyone sound a little racist to lessen the overt racism of political right.

And seriously, how does anyone miss the overt lynching reference in Romney's gaffe?

And come on, you can't possibly compare the Bush chimp with the numerous Obama ape portrayals and make a fair comparison. There's no historical portrayal of whites as proto-humans or apes.

Thats the problem with our discussion of race these days: the people who need to have the conversation the most are ill-equiped to do so (because racism never affects them), and the ones best equiped to have the conversation (because they deal with it on a regular basis) are always dismissed as playing some BS "race card"

Bob seems, as are most conservatives, adept at selective reading and listening. Taking the words and phrases they choose to interpret the statement.

As for Romney's quote, in this day of mis-speakings, open microphones, double entendres, one would think that everyone in public life would pay particular attention to what they say, how they say it and what the inferences might be.

Sadly, the opposite seems to be the case.

Michael,

So you qualify blacks as mainstream and not mainstream. You actually segregate blacks by being mainstream and not being mainstream?

Pretty prejudicial, huh?

So what is a mainstream African-American, genius? What category do you put Thurgood Marshall, MLK in? How about the brillant Barbara Jordan? Clarence Thomas and Condy Rice? Don't count huh? What about Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell, where do they go?

Where would you put Jackie Robinson, Hank Aron, Walter Payton, Tiger Woods, Arthur Ashe, Serena and Venus Williams? How about Will Smith, Oprah Williams, Samuel Jackson, Denzel Washington, Bill Cosby, Halle Berry ..........

Why are you defending a racist statement?

Why not allow that Biden's statement was an unintentional gaffee? Sheeez......what is wrong with you guys. Leave it alone..........

Or are you stupid like Feisty and not know when to quit?

BTW - Anyone with any common sense, that could argue Romney's point instead of being too inept to come up withanything other than he is a racist would see that there is no reference to lynching.

I'm sorry you can't make the cut.

Michael in Denver always & fielden!

***STANDING O***

Or are you stupid like Feisty and not know when to quit?

What's that ....... about 4 hours?

Looks like they are not as stupid as you are after-all, huh?

Oh well, I guess you can say you tried.

See you tomorrow Feisty.

So the "Misery Index" (combined Unemployment and Inflation Rates) is back - good.

Here's a link to how recent presidents have done, and it's interesting to note that the best average "Misery Index" belonged to Bill Clinton (7.80%), but what's even more interesting is that G W Bush had the second best 'Index' (8.11%) in the last 40 years - actually quite close to Clinton's average. Jimmy Carter, of course, had the worst Index (16.26%), and his got almost to 22% a few months before he lost to Reagan in a landslide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misery_index

Obama's Index is a work in progress, but could get pretty bad if inflation continues.

Bob,

What dung? Was my understanding of metaphor, symbolism and allegorical reference dung? If so please show your work. What part of my Reaganomics analysis was not fact based and was dung flinging. For someone challenging the intellectual achievments of another paying more attention to your own spelling, syntax and grammar is merely a point of order. Refuting statistics and data is pretty much a useless exercise for an example your unemployment statistics perhaps not an out and out lie are at best disingenuous. Reagan inherited a low unemployment rate at 5.8% and it took him over 7 years to get back to that number prior to 1988 his best year was 7% with a high of 9-7% with spikes over 10% two years into his reign. an 80% increase in the unemployment rate in your first two years and an average increase of 40% is hardly an economic miracle. He doubled the National debt and saw the GNP drop through 1982 something that had not occurred in decades. Only when his disasterous tax cuts were repealed did revenues begin to expand. They still never came close to equaling his absurd spending he created 16 million jobs 10.5 in his second term after Volker was successful in taming insurance and at a cost in debt produced of $60,000 per jobs for jobs that averaged $24,000, another freaking economic miracle. Your unemployment comparisons beggar the imagination you somehow credit him for coming out of a recession that he created and reducing unemployment that he created and at the same point the 5.8 he inherited was at 10% and at the same point after his recession he was still at 7.2% approximately 25% higher than the rate at the start of his term. You compare a 30% reduction of his own economic failure as a success are you attempting to be deceptive or simply clueless. Expansion of GNP is a mostly useless stat if it is accomplished by accumulation of excessive wealth by a small portion of society, in fact it is usually counterproductive to overall economic expansion wealth creation is not synonymous with a healthy economy. Low upper bracket and capital gains created huge amounts of disposable wealth for a select few and encourages speculation and a quick turnover of investments in search of immediate profit and reinvestment. It does not encourage long term investment in heavy industry and manufacturing with a loss of 30% of the plants and factories in Reagans 8 yrs. More jobs at higher rates of pay were created in the Clinton years than in the entire 20 yrs of Supply Side Economics. Reagan was responsible for every dime of his deficits with all eight of his budgets approved without revision. By the way the 80s were also the start of the vast government encouraged expansion of for profit healthcare from 8.3% to almost 12% a larger increase than in the prior 25 yrs of non profit healthcare. A high school graduate today using adjusted 1988 dollars has a lost $12,000 in wages exclusive of benefits every dime of which has come in the Reagan and Bush years with a net gain in the eight Clinton years. From 1946 to 1980 the bottom 90% saw an increase of 92% in household income and the top 1% saw an increase of 25% giving us the largest economic expansion in ou history and the largest middle class expansion in world history, From 1980 the expansion of the 90% has been 10% with the top 1% (drum roll please) 235% ANOTHER SUPPLY SIDE MIRACLE. The consumer debt of all US citizens was 100% of GDP it now sits at 183% with virtually all of it held by the bottom 90% of the citizenry.

A few more Reagan miracles and we can hang a giant closed sign on the statue of liberty.

Who's REALLY responsible for the debt and financial mess we now have?

Since I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican, I decided to try to find the answer to that question. I started with the premise that Congress sets the budget each year and determines the level of spending in any given year and the policies that affect revenues, deficits and job creation (As President Obama recently said to Congress “It's not MY job to pass a budget”). The President is not allowed to spend a penny that has not been authorized by Congress. Congress also is the only branch that is able to pass any legislation that might affect economic growth and job creation – The President can only sign it, or veto it.

So let's take a look at the results for who controlled Congress over the last 30 years (15 Congresses of 2 years each, during which time about 95% of our debt was incurred), and during which time the Democrats had control for 12 years, the Republicans for 10 years, and there was a 'split' of the House and Senate for 8 years. The results, when looking at average growth rates for the economy, average deficits, the average unemployment rate and the number of jobs created by political party are interesting. Here they are, for better or worse.

ECONOMIC GROWTH RATE

Democrats = 4.85% per year

Republicans = 6.04% per year

Split Control = 7.24% per year

TOTAL DEFICITS ($7,305 Billion or $7.305 Trillion)

Democrats = $5,025 Billion ($419 Billion per year)

Republicans = $1,219 Billion ($122 Billion per year)

Split Control = $1,062 Billion ($133 Billion per year)

TOTAL NUMBER OF NET JOBS CREATED (39,291,000)

Democrats = 8,550,000 (712,000 jobs per year)

Republicans = 23,239,000 (2,324,000 jobs per year)

Split Control = 7,502,000 (938,000 jobs per year)

AVERAGE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE

Democrats = 6.60% per year

Republicans = 4.97% per year

Split Control = 7.39% per year

I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to which party is best for economic/job growth.

bob-1805084 "The libbies will say Obama inherited the worst recession since the Great Depression. The fact is that the recession was almost over when Obama took office (officially over within 6 months)."

Good point. Another interesting fact about the "Great Recession" is that, from the time it started at the end of 2007 and the time it ended in mid-2009, the economy (GDP) actually GREW by about 1.3%, so the vast majority of the claims about the "Great Recession" being the greatest economic crisis since the "Great Depression" (where the economy actually DID shrink by about 30%) is just more liberal hype.

Michael in Denver always "Bob, you do realize that Biden quote refers to Obama as the FIRST MAINSTREAM African American candidate, who is also articulate, and bright and clean"

I guess Jesse Jackson doesn't count.

Articulate? Jesse? Maybe if you are reading his comments in a transcript. If you are listening to him speak, the discriptor "articulate" doesn't come to mind.

It seems as though Michael in Denver was doing his level best to cover for Biden. Only problem with Michael's assessment is... it just isn't so. Biden has a long history of gaffes. It was so bad during the last campaign for Obama that he was taken off of his talking circuit.

Funny how some liberals will defend the indefensible... goes to show you just how silly liberalism is and how out of whack reality appears to them.

It is an ancient Mariner

And he stoppeth one of three

By thy long gray beard and glittering eye

Now wherefore stoppest thou me??

Sheesh. Why do I have to miss all the good stuff?

Nice beard, bob.

"Not one Republican candidate can show anywhere near the class, and manners, as the president has shown... There is no record of him saying or doing anything racially divisive to provoke that accusation"

From July, 2009 "President Barack Obama says police in Cambridge, Mass., acted "stupidly" this week when they arrested Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates"....

Obama continued with "what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact."

Crowley said Gates called him a "racist cop" after he arrived at the house and asked the Harvard professor for identification. Gates is said to have refused by saying, "No I will not." As the confrontation escalated, Crowley was then joined by a Hispanic Cambridge police officer and a black sergeant....to be continued

So recognizing and being honest about that fact that racism has and does exist is divisive.

Eddie York,

Is it only OK if white presidents acknowledge racism in America.If you want to know about the use of racism as an election tool look up either Lee Atwater or Southern Politics in the 90s. One of the Olympians of Dirty Political Campaigning Lee Atwater explains in depth how you could influence voting in 54 by shouting N— — — _R repeatedly but by 68 it was unacceptable so it needed to be replaced by codewords like busing and states rights and all that stuff. Mr Atwater asked God and Country on his deathbed to forgive him and the GOP for what they had done to America. Ken Melman as Chairman of the GOP apologized for the Southern strategy while strangely continuing to employ it. The danger that exists for America is probably more the denial of institutional and socially accepted racism than its existence.

jkh

Pointy hoods for pointy heads.

The Romney gaffe, like the gaffes made in Maine, have nothing to do with Black people or Native Americans (an official in Gov. LePage's cabinet recently resigned after insulting our Native tribes), but with the Tea Party mentality of scapegoating minorities, or those without power, in times of economic hardship. You can see it in the comments on this blog: right-wingers believe, since they are so perfect, that if they are financially strapped, it must be because some less worthy person has taken their money. Somebody else isn't working hard enough. Must be the fault of the Blacks, or the Hispanics, or the Native Americans...cause "we" are following the rules, doing everything right, and we all know God rewards the righteous. Which is why it can't be the wealthiest 1% fault - after all, if you are rich it means you are "blessed."

Amy B.

Why don't you give it a rest already? Are you following the DNC line of racist baiting? Gee, if so, you should condemn you fellow libbie, Bev the Self-Proclaimed Racist, for her continuing racists of white people.

No matter how you spin it Amy B., Obama will have a difficult time of explaining to the public how his policies haven't affected their pocketbooks as the Progressives attempt to take more from the rich to give to the poor. Hey, do you ProgessivesDemocratsLibbies feel better being a part of the Robin Hood Party?

As for blaming others for my economic hardship? Well, I accept responsibility for my investments; I made my decisions for my 401K. I will, however, blame Obama for his inability to provide leadership to issues relating to the nation.

And Amy B., end playing the DNC Race Card, it is old and boring.

I just think it's funny the Tea Party administration of my state, which is 98% Caucasian, has managed to tick off the NAACP and the Native Americans in the four months they have been in office. Why go out of your way to tell the NAACP to "kiss my ass" when the only time you have to deal with them in Maine is on MLK day? Why go out of your way to say affirmative action has ruined higher education, as an official from the LePage administration recently did (to the governor's credit he did get the man's resignation, for these and other comments.) Why go out of your way to target minorities except to create a scapegoat and "bond" with other racists?

"typical white woman"

"cling to their guns and religion"

"police acted stupidly"

"for the first time proud of my country"

"voted for him because he was black"

Playing the race card is not restricted to one side. Totally unnecessary in this day and age. You know? This day and age where we have a black/white President. Not to mention all the other positions of leadership where minorities sit in the chair.

Why don't we start talking about individual responsibility instead?

Doug,

"typical white woman" - I guess this means that only white women get to be diverse because we accept as given any proclaimation of "typical black woman" "typical Latina" "typical Asian woman" as an acceptable distinction to make in our public discourse.

"cling to their guns and religon" - Oh, whatever you do don't point out that a lot of folks in the heartland are religiously devout and have a affinity for asserting their Second Amendment rights. That MUST be racist (especially when they come to political rallies holding bible quotes and open carrying their sidearms)

"police acted stupidly" - I'm guessing if you are arrested trying to enter your own home, which you adamantly present to them as such, you would think the police acted reasonably. And, of course, we don't profile criminals by race at all in this country, so Gates had to be out of line for getting pinched in front of his own house.

"first time proud of my country" - White people, who never got shot, lynched, burned out of their homes, whipped, forcibly separated from family, mutilated, raped, denied basic human rights for hundreds of years, denied full political access, never stereotyped as apes or spooks or bafoons, never had the laws set speficially against their persons and property, ad nausium, have a real hard time believing African Americans might have a different relationship with Uncle Sam than they. Like Chris Rock once said, "America (for blacks) is like the uncle that paid your way through college, but molested you." Well of course we have different perspectives on this country; whites didn't have to fight two wars for their independence.

"Voted for him because he was black" - that was just random drop in by Doug to prove some greater racial point about blacks as a whole... as if the last 43 presidents weren't whiter than a ream of paper. You do realize the converse of that faux quote in this country has ALWAYS been, "I DIDN'T vote for him because he was black.' In fact often times in this country's history it has been "We didn't let him vote because he was black."

But, of course, we can harken back to a recent time when it was "I convicted him because he was black" or "I called the cops on him because he was black" or "I wouldn't let him date my daughter because he was black" or "We'd never let him into our club/professional sports franchise/university/home because he was black" or (my favorite) "We'd never trust him with our car/daughter/money/corporation/country because he is black."

Again, let put this all into the proper context.

I get that no one like to be called out on racism. No one. But at least take these comments in CONTEXT. Maybe after a few centuries of minority oppression of whites can we have this discussion on equal footing. But, without having to go that far, it would be a lot easier if neo-cons just take a basic review of the last 250 years before they start complaining that everything is reverse racism these days. It would help us out a lot.

P.S. And, seriously, if you want to talk individual responsibility lets talk about owning up to ones own place in society. If this all boils down to the individual then chill with the crass, offensive, inaccurate stereotyping and name calling all around. We're either all bound by uniform traits, or we're all defined by our individual actions. This double standard that only applies to one's ideological enemies is BS.

Quite a long post of nonsense.

Why didn't you just say:

"It's ok if minorities are racist because they were victims of racism"

Saved you a lot of self-bluster and time.

"Context". The cry of the apologists.

It is ok if minorities are bigots. They have little or no ability or capacity to be racists.

They have little or no ability or capacity to be racists.

What "ability" or "capacity" qualifies one to be a racist?

Being part of the ruling race and power structure. Racism is a threat, of those with the power to subjugate others who reside in the minority. That minority may dislike or hate the majority, maybe even wish death upon them, but they can't hope to displace or overthrow the majority, or bring anything less than genocide upon themselves by trying. The minority can be bigots, thay have no hope of being racists, no matter how much they dislike other races.

Paul evidently you haven't looked up Webster's definition of racist. It has nothing to do with who is in power or the subjugation of others and everything to do with making assumptions on the racial makeup of an individual. Minorities can be racists.

I am sure you would like to believe that. Please join us here in the Twenty First century; the term Racist has been redefined. Webster is describing bigotry.

Spoken like the racist teabag/birther you are. Bet Trump the Hump is your idol.

Reading comprehension not one of your strong suits I see dembarb. I take it you think all opponents of President Obama are racists. You clearly think I am as you called me one. This makes you a very ignorant person.

I am making a point about a political tactic that I believe was played too soon and you have to descend into your hate mode.

Just because your hate is directed at those who have a different political take on life does not diminish the effect that hatred for others has on our society. It is a poison and you may want to take it up with your psycoanalyst at your next session.

If you actually have an intelligent response to my assertions this would be a good time to make it.

manapp99,

Oh course the libbies are attempting to use the race card more and more as they attempt to spin the virtues of Barry the empty suit.

Why, even Bev from Chicago, the self-proclaimed racist, aided by Sally the moderator who refuses to acknowledge her rule-breaking and remove her from the site, continually plays this card. At least Bev the chicago Racist is open about her hatred of any conservative, white or black.

When Barry the Empty Suit begins to debate, he will have to campaign, or answer to his record, and he should have difficulty formulating a positive spin on his spending programs. He has ownership, in spite of the various turns he attempts to make. His Latino discussion prior to the election cycle is a farse everyone knows is a farse. Just words to make the Latinos happy while doing no action to move their agenda forward.

When gasoline increased to $3/gal. under Bush, the libbies were revolting in masses. Under Obama however, $4 to $6gal is ok, for it meets their "Save the Planet" agenda. The poor may be hurt financially, but Obama talks on.

It should be an interesting election as Barry flounders, has difficulty talking about his record, while gas, groceries and inflation take over. People will vote with their pocketbooks.......

But continue to use the RACE CARD during you comments libbies...........you will show your A$$ and folks will continue to be bored with your rants. The public won't buy when you, the DNC and the President haven't a thing to sell.

^5 Manapp!!!

I nearly busted a blood vessel when the Media Photo-op for the Birth Certificate Rally ended.....the press hadn't even pulled their coats on yet when Barry & Michelle were on Air Force One enroute to Chicago for an appearance on Oprah...then a Chicago Fund Raiser...then off to NY for another Fund Raiser...same day.

The "Career Campaigner" had just declared to all of America that "I do not have time to be arguing with Carnival Barkers about where I was born as I have far greater problems to deal with"

Only a "Non-Thinking" human would not see all that is wrong with this picture as it is worth thousands of words about this mans character....and the common sense of those who vote for him.

Eddie York

^5 Manapp!!!

I nearly busted a blood vessel when the Media Photo-op for the Birth Certificate Rally ended.....the press hadn't even pulled their coats on yet when Barry & Michelle were on Air Force One enroute to Chicago for an appearance on Oprah...then a Chicago Fund Raiser...then off to NY for another Fund Raiser...same day.

I did too from LMAO at the bona fide nut job birther queen, Orly Taitz, laughing like a hyena when she got yanked off Lawrence O'Donnell's show for incoherently not being able to answer a question. All I could think of was the old Vaudeville days where a hooked stick came from behind the curtain to carry the actor away.

She also looked like a female drag queen impersonator so happily giggling to have gotten 15 minutes. Man check those fake eye lashes out!!

Lawrence O'Donnell Kicks Birther Queen Orly Taitz Off His Show!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB3W5NTAAAo

Only a "Non-Thinking" human would not see all that is wrong with this picture as it is worth thousands of words about this mans character....and the common sense of those who vote for him.

Let's not talk about common sense unless it has to do with all the meatheads on the rabid right.

Anyone else notice the eerie resemblence between Orly & Tammy Fay Baker? lol

Tarantula Eyes!

Manapp99, you are demonstrating the typical teabagger/republicon thinking process. Someone shoots someone in the foot, and the right gets upset because the victim points it out. "Oh, they are just playing the 'I just got shot in the foot' card"!!

I doubt any US President has ever taken as much abuse as has Obama.

"Obozo", "obummer"....those are just some of the nicer names he has been called here on newsvine. Usually some thick headed ignorant hick is calling him a "moron". They don't even know exactly why they call him that, except that's what Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity and Drudge put in their lemming-like heads!

Apparently you don't know what's happening in this country. It's being split by the Republicans, the hard-nosed Tea Party members and those that really want to help the country. Arizona just passed a law where a Presidential canidate MUST show their birth certificate to the state to be placed on the ballot. This is the same state of Arizona where John McCain and Jon Kyl work on continuing war, and the rich get richer. The same Arizona that does not have equality in lawmaking because 80% of the State Legislature is Republican. The Same Arizona that named a State Gun and loosened gun laws so everyone can use them where they will. The same Arizona where Rep. Gabby Giffords - Dem was shot and almost killed. Makes me proud to be in a country and state like that. NOT!

Patrick, Gov Brewer vetoed that bill.

Are you saying racism doesn't exist within the republicans? Then tell me why you would not accept the same standard form issued by the State of birth that every other candidate presents as proof of Obama's birth. I cannot describe a racist but I can tell you when I see one's spoken words and action.

I was a republican now independent but republicans have allowed the wing nuts take over the voice of the party thereby mutting legitimate debate we could have about this President's policy. Why the heck are spending so much time talking about a goddam birth certificate with all the important issues before us? Because the Republican morons aka Tea baggers and what else are making it an issue.

When these groups make comments like "he's not one of us". Who is this "us" they refer to? KKK? So don't tell me that the liberals are the ones introducing racism to the arena. Just debate the issue with FACTS and we can discuss intelligently. Notice that I capitalized "facts". We welcome those things.

The Racism, biases & double standards that Obama and all the Liberals spew is like writing on the wall. Let's debate!

I better be careful because I am a part Jewish, Irish, German Republican!!! I must hate myself!

I got an idea! read a book, you will see he was speaking metaphorically.. Gesh... can we worry about the REAL issues???? Dollar being worthless...people living in their cars... more people on social services then are paying into it... Debt... Jobs going over seas, child abuse etc..

american, Untrue, I expect from the right, the kind of things we get. Nonsense about death panels, birtherism, arrogance, smugness, self aggrandizement. It would be nice if we heard what they plan on doing about jobs.

Well Patrick...since the GOP won back the house and Boehner started leading the political dialouge, the unemployment numbers have come down. Look at the unemployment numbers under the leadership of Nancy Pelosi for comparison.

manapp. Thats one of the other things I expect from conservatives, taking credit where none is due.

Well Patrick, it is how the game of politics is played. This is my point about the left playing the race card. The truth has little to do with politics. I doubt the Dems are going to be successful painting the GOP as a party of racists. Of course lefties are on board but that will only get you about 30% of the votes needed. I do not expect the indepenents to buy in.

The original point about the birth certificate was that politically speaking I believe Obama won that round and made Trump look the fool. Chasing the birther issue is only the fringe on the right the same way the 9/11 truther issues was a fringe left meme. Not unlike the Bush and Diebold in cahoots with the Supreme court stole the 2000 election issue. What surprised me was the attempt to turn that into a racists issue this early in the campaign.

Presidential elections are not about truths, they are about perceptions. Obama was masterful in painting Bush and GOP as incompetent and won in 08 in a landslide. This, of course, required white voters being on board. To alienate the white voter with cries of racism and to attempt to narrow that charge to GOP voters only will, IMHO, backfire and was played too soon to have any hope of success.

I doubt the Dems are going to be successful painting the GOP as a party of racists.

We don't have to...

They're managing to do a FABULOUS job of that all by themselves! ;o)

Got any facts to back that assertion Red? Just because Ed Shultz and Eugene Robinson say it so does not make it so. People that vote for the GOP are just regular working people just like you. There are clearly haters on both sides but for the most part people are too busy to hate. I am willing to bet that you do not discriminate against those who vote Republican in your every day life. People on the blogs just express their pent up frustrations on others and are more harsh in their rhetoric than their everyday interactions with others.

The political punditry have a real financial interest in dividing people. This is what drives ratings and ratings determine revenue. The funny thing is that FOX news and MSNBC count on the same large corporations to continue making large salaries. I mean, there is nothing that exemplfies the true competitive capitalistic system better than MSNBC vs FOX for money. It is all about the money. Always has been and always will. Don't be fooled that any one except the bloggers are doing this for free.

mana: I am willing to bet that you do not discriminate against those who vote Repulican in your everyday life.

Well I do!! Instead of working on the problems of everyday people in need, they are more concern about picking what should be the official State Gun! Yes that happened here in Arizona where our State Legislators are 80% Republican! So, please don't tell someone how they feel everyday unless you are in their shoes living their exact lives!!

well patrick, while I don't know what the makeup is of the maine legislature, last i heard was that thaey were considering making the whoopie pie the states official treat/desert.

But patrick...

please don't tell someone how they feel everyday unless you are in their shoes living their exact lives

Isn't that what these FR blogs are all about? What would the likes of fiesty, bev, amyb and jodyiowa do with their time?

Patrick of salt lake - what was untrue...

The commerce secretary's say that we must "fight" china.

Obama for saying "qaddafi must go"

Obama promoting "shovel ready jobs"

Speaking about "death panels" wasn't that first coined by palin about the democrats? Regardless, death panels occur every day within the US, and yes the subject is about both finances and quality of life. Why, even I once participated in a "death panel". I am sure that many on both sides of the aisle have also participated as well.

Seems that only those selfish individuals who don't have the ability to reason with logic, but only with emotion think that throwing $$$ at something or anything will make it right. All those $$$ wasted on the very few while the many suffer and do without, all because the few spent all the $$$. Sounds like the typical liberal agenda to me!

Never though I would write a post in support of no joe, no bo, nj...

What he said was not intended to be racist and this PC stuff to stir up a controversy where there's none is nonsense.

Ever hear the expression, Give him enough rope to hang himself.

Ever hear Like an Albatross hanging around his neck.

Ever hear, let him talk, he's hanging himself.

Common, everyday expressions. Just because the man is black doesn't make the comment racist.

Hey, there's enough REAL problems in this country and to fight about this is totally non productive.

Ira, I agree with you. There are enough real problems and real issues that we need to address as a nation. I'm not dismissing the horrible things that Trump has said lately but I don't think Romney meant to disrespect anyone.

Romney himself pointed out the chilling association to lynching. If it was just a figure of speech why did he point out that he was being non-pc to talking about hanging Obama? Why did he giggle at his "courage" in using this metaphor?

Amy B. Portland, ME

He also prefaced it with...“You remember during the Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter debates that Ronald Reagan came up with this great thing about the misery index, and he hung that around Jimmy Carter’s neck and that had a lot to do with Jimmy Carter losing.

What part of that is racist? Reagan and Carter...two old white guys.

Just because he extended the meaphor to Obama doesn't make it racist.

It became racist when Romney giggled about applying the metaphor to Obama. Romney was the one who noticed the association, highlighted it really, then turned it into an "aren't we bad" comment. He was bonding with the audience over the fantasy of hanging Obama...not hanging something on him, the way Democrats tied Bush around McCain's neck.

Disagree...I think he realized it would be taken wrong and pointed out that you need to be careful in this PC world. Wasn't an "aren't we bad" comment. My God, where did come up with the comment that he "was bonding with the audience over the fantasy of hanging Obama". For Real???

Amy , Get your face out of that pile of Obamanure and reread the comment. Romney never said lynching. What he did say was to do what Reagan did and hang the misery index around Obama's neck. Was Reagen a racist too for saying the same thing? To try and turn into something more just shows how desperate you libbies are really getting.

Ira, please don't pick on poor Amy. She has a pre-teen type crush on Obama- thus, is incapable of coherent, adult thinking on the subject.

By the way, on Monday, I will be happy to give yup a lesson on inflation, strong versus weak dollars, and the correlation of a weak dollar and high prices.

You seem not to understand the connections.

no joe, no bo, nj

I so look forward to your lesson on economics!!! Have a great weekend...or what's left of it. No way we are going to agree you know

No Jo, having seen the Romney clip on NBC tonight, I would say I was wrong, he wasn't being racist. I was being overly protective of the President.

Romney's no threat.

Amy B. Portland, ME...

Romney's no threat.

......................................

On that we certainly can agree...

Amy: you don't owe no jo an apology. NO ONE EVER owes no jo an apology because she is incapable of being honest. Ira: I enjoy what you write, but I respectfully disagree with you. Ask yourself this...what is the standard ? If we use the yardstick that the Republicans set with the President, then the statement was racist: do you remember the made up drama over the the phrase "clinging to guns and religion" attributed to the President? The Republicans took that statement totally out of context and we STILL hear about it to this day. Now, the Republicans can't have this both ways. If they want the standard to be "we will create controversy out of whole cloth", then that standard should be applied to their candidates, and they should EXPECT it to be applied to their candidates. Either which way, given the history of this nation, and what happened to blacks in the South, YOU DON'T USE THAT KIND OF WORDING. It is tone deaf, and reflects a certain insulation from what has gone on in this country. It doesn't have to be racist to be wrong. The macro issue is that Romney has a way of putting his foot in his mouth, and he is going to be a poor candidate.

Dear Dawn:

It's not so much that Romney puts his foot in his mouth, as the sycophantic idealogue press and it's blind followers swallow progressive camels whole while straining at conservative gnats.

Dear dnolan:

First, thank you for expressing your view without the name calling that we usually get. I am quite unaccustomed to it. I would say however, that the press has been relentless about reporting whatever the conservatives have said about our President, and not challenging it at all. Read the example I use above.

DNolan,

Biden had to be careful running against Sarah Palin not to appear to be insulting women as a group when he battled her. When Barack Obama got in trouble for saying the Republicans were "putting lipstick on a pig" it was widely interpreted that he was playing off Palin's comment that the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull was lipstick. It's a risk politicians face when they attack opponents in language and metaphors which trigger memories of attacks on groups as a whole. It would behoove Romney to differentiate his attacks, so he doesn't threaten minorities, even inadvertently.

newdayDAWNING10...

You're moving the goal posts here. The topic was what Romney said and if you saw the tape he did not mean it all as a racist slur. A slip, call it a stupid slip of the tongue, that he tried to correct. I think everyone agrees. As to the rest, whether he will be a good or viable candidate, let's wait and see what he says when starts talking to the main stream press and stops repeating, as nauseum, scripted comments and the GOP talking points. He has to come out of hding sometime.

That is exactly my point, Ira: the goal posts have been moved. The Republicans moved them in the last campaign. They should expect to be held to the same standards that they hold others to. Romney was over the line, according to those standards, and those standards should apply. But regardless, I do think that symbolism is tone deaf. And Romney will continue to BE tone deaf as will the rest of the party.

newdayDAWNING10..

I've read a ton of posts here and they say the same thing..racist, he meant it, they started it in 2008. Why the need to lower yourself to their level? oh...the fighting fire with fire thing....the double standard. Why the need to repeat the mistakes of the past? Clearly, if you saw the tape you know it was an awkward slip of the tongue. Yeah, you're on the GOP sux thread and everything you post needs to support that. How about a common sense thread and not make a slip of the tongue...and that's all it was...into an international incident. Talk about the economy and jobs and the over 300 dead in the South and 3 wars and the debt ceiling and the 2012 budget. This is sooooooo distracting and non productive.

You did not read that from me, Ira, though Romney is a leader in a "church" that didn't admit that blacks had souls or allow them into the fellowship of the "church" until when...the late 1970's? (fair disclosure, my one blind spot is Mormonism, due to a devastating personal circumstance.) I would never belong to something like that. But, I didn't call him racist, I said it was tone deaf, and it is. My first comment at 1.3 was directed toward the audience. But, no, you cannot have a standard that the Republican party has lowered itself to (fair disclosure, I am an ex-Republican.) and say that others cannot hold them to the standard that they hold others to. What is the standard? Is it all right for Republicans to create controversy where none exists? Then when one of the front runners of their party makes a boneheaded statement like that, he had better expect the response to be negative.

newdayDAWNING10

First, read Amy B. Portland, ME comment. "When Barack Obama got in trouble for saying the Republicans were "putting lipstick on a pig" it was widely interpreted that he was playing off Palin's comment that the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull was lipstick". A slip of the tongue and a misinterpretation.

Don't bring religion into it, not relevant. I don't care what his church believed 40 or 50 years ago.

Never said YOU called him a racist, I said "I've read a ton of posts here and they say the same thing..racist, he meant it, they started it in 2008".

I said how about stop being so PC and get on with REAL issues facing this country. This he said, we said, we need to realiate crap is really getting old.

Gotta throw my support to Ira, Lisa S., and by extension NNN...NN... (excuse me, this is hard) NoJo. If both sides worked half as hard trying to solve the nations problems as they did exploiting harmless gaffes, we would not have the problems we have today. The PC crap has to stop.

Ira: Your last post makes little sense. Amy is making the same point I am making. If the Republicans are going to scream about a comment that was made by the President, and not be upset about political correctness, then they must not be surprised when it happens to them. Romney's religion is relevant within the context of this discussion. The Mormon "church" was racist. Pure and simple. No argument can be made about that. I seriously doubt that they have strayed much from prejudice, given their reprehensible behavior in CA and Prop (H)8. To say that it is "political correctness" when you are reminded of the shameful history regarding the treatment of a segment of this population in the South (read that: lynchings) is disingenuous at best and willful revisionist history at worst. Do I want someone in the President's Office representing ME that thinks that way. NO!

She is saying that a slip of the tongue is a slip of the tongue. Nothing more. Move on.

So you say that the Mormon Church racist so by conductive reasoning, Romney is racist. No giant leap there, right.

I don't need to be reminded of the shameful history of the south, and yet we were able to elect a black man President. Says a lot aboput about how far we've come. No there yet by a country mile, but better.

Oh...I am and always will be an Obama guy and I do think you've built a mountain out of crap.

But it didn't take much pressure for you to become heated in your response, did it Ira? Here is the larger issue, and one that you must think about. You have been asking for reasonable discourse, and yet become unreasonable when I disagree with you. It just isn't that easy, and that is lesson. The other lesson is this: Don't make demands for one side to play by rules. Either both sides have rules or neither side does. The Republican Party as a whole, has been outrageous, with claims that the President is not a legal citizen. THAT is where your anger should be. As far as Romney, I doubt you would have to scratch very deeply to find out that he believes exactly what he has been taught by the cult that he claims leadership in.

Heated in my response...where? I don't agree with you. Period. Have a good day.

Just tired of going round and round and wasting time....and please don't even infer that I'm a racist. Sounds like you are in your hatred for the Mormon Church.

Ira: the word is imply. You infer from what you hear, you imply by what you say. Pet peeve with me. Yep, absolutely, I have no liking or respect for the Mormon "church". Be the first to say it. EVERYONE has bias and prejudice toward something, I am simply honest about what mine is. No, I would not vote for Romney in any case, but him being a Mormon and in leadership would cause me to not vote for him if he were a Lib, which he is sometimes, just depends on what he is running for. As to implying that you are a racist, didn't happen. I merely said, whatever rules you hold one side to, you are obligated to hold the other side to the same.

newday - give it up, all of your rhetoric can't overcome Ira's short comments.

What would you call post 8.24 where you implied that all republicans...

The Republican Party as a whole, has been outrageous, with claims that the President is not a legal citizen.

You lost, now move on. Maybe fiesty will let you be her sidekick again.

Perhaps you need to review obamas recent press corp gala speech and all of his chuckles he got.

Frankly, american, I think that probably a fair statement. The Republican Party, as a whole, could have stepped forward to stop the nonsense. Those who were in a position to do so, and did not, were not merely complicit -- worse, they were, like John Boehner and Donald Trump, exploitive.

Well said. Not everything the dems write here is right. They're on the GOP sux thread.

Not everything the GOPers write here is right. They're on the Dems sux thread.

No to preach, but there is no ABSOLUTE truth, both sides are somethimes right and unless you're sure you know everything there is about the subject, then perhaps you should listen. I'm smart enough to know that I don't know everything about politics so I read and listen to both sides and, yes, sometimes change my position. If you're stuck in the my party is always right, you will never solve the problems we face.

Of course there are absolute truths. One that comes to mind is that it is absolutely wrong to kill an unborn child. That is the truth, and no rationalization or attempted explanation to the contrary can change that truth.

Mark-2963292......

You need to preface all you said with "I think" and leave you're opinion as to what the definition of an unborn child is. Is it an unborn zygote, embryo, fetus. Can it survive outside the womb. Is the definition of birth accepted by all religions.

Let me you suggest you read Plato and other great philosophers on the subject. They tend to disagree with your definition of Absolute Truth.

Ira, party politics has now become the opiate of the masses. Keeps them divided and unable to see who their true enemies are.

The true enemies of this country are the people on bot sides of the aisle who are so single minded, closed minded, that it's become my way or the highway. No middle ground, no comprimise and they absolutely do not care what is best for the country. Everything is split along party lines. Stagnation in the House and the Senate. Who can play the best political trick on each other. Get on with it dammit. We have people in this country starving and dying and it seems to me that neither party cares.

Mark: How many unborn children do you suppose we killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki? That wasn't war, that was Nuclear Terrorism applied against civilians.

A history revisionist, how nice. Let's see, World War 2, enemy Japan who attacked our ships at Pearl Harbor without warning, conquered damned near the entire eastern Pacific and killed civilians in every land they conquered. Killed our POW's. We were about to invade the Japanese mainland where is was estimated 1,000,000 American troops would be killed or wounded. Which option would you choose Paul. I'd go with saving as many American lives as possible.

You swallowed the "official" excuse, hook-line-and-sinker. The attack on Pearl was no surprise to FDR. We were killing Japs in China before Pearl. Their killing of civilians doesn't "justify" our killing of the unborn children in the wombs of civilian Japanese women in Hiroshima of Nagasaki. We targeted the city, not the military installations. We never had any need to invade the Japanese "mainland" and the projection of one million American deaths in that pointless effort is, and always was ludicrous.

If we were so upset by their killing our POWs, who never should have surrendered to the Japs in the first place, we should have dropped the Atomic bombs on their military headquarters and the Royal Family compound.............funny we didn't bother to do that......no, we took it out on civilians. Bravo.

Paul...with all due respect, you are a sick, sick man. A conspiracy theorist and, well, just plain crazy. Have a nice day in your world.

Paul - we can't all be the CT that you are, and I am damn glad I am not. I do see that you do like stirring the pot though. Not always a bad thing, but bad if taken to the extreme.

Much like the libs argument of "what about the poor, the sick, the elderly". As a kid I was impressed with LBJ's war on poverty. After 40+ years the poor are still with us. 2000 years ago someone else also made the comment of the poor also being with us but he said "always" (paraphrased).

Ira - I learned a long time ago that there are three sides to every argument...

There is my side, your side and the truth. With that I say keep on thinking of solutions and keep on asking questions.

If you don't recognize that most of human experience in the last 300 years is a conspiracy, you are little more than one of the "sheeple". Don't be surprised when the time comes for your slaughter. You've been warned.

Eddie York..

Obama is a racist...one quote...please just one.

Richard Trumka is not a member of the Obama cabinet. How do you know he is at the White House every week...you see the sign in sheet...got a photo of the weekly visits...guessing no...

I agree Ira....I do not believe Obama to a racist either. I do believe him to be a political elitist and believer that government should play a larger role in shaping society than I do. My differences with him are in political philosophy. This does not mean that I agree with the GOP here either. The GOP has strayed too far into government control of our lives for me. Though I disagree with Ron Paul on the gold standard question, his smaller federal govenment stance is more in line with my thinking.

You know too much about very dangerous people Eddie, you should check yourself into the witness protection program.

Eddie York

Obama is Racist, prejudice, biased and his friends and cabinet members are a contradiction of the values he claims to have & promote.

Please STFU. the President's mother. grandmother, and grandfather are white. He hates them too; right?

You're sick and the hate you project can cause you to die of cancer

Richard Trumka and 8 other United Mine Workers were found guilty of killing Eddie York in 1993 during a 17,000 Union Member Multi-state Strike against Peabody Coal. The murder left Eddies Wife and 3 children without a father after Eddie crossed a Union Strike to feed his family. Eddie was shot in the Back of his Head, killing him instantly.

Did Trumka pull the trigger?

Trumka encouraged non-violent civil disobedience to confront the company and relied on a corporate campaign involving Wall Street investors.

The United Mine Workers conducted a nationwide strike against Peabody Coal in 1993. Trumka was asked to respond to the possibility that some coal companies might hire permanent replacement workers.^[8] He told the Associated Press in September 1993, "I'm saying if you strike a match and you put your finger in it, you're likely to get burned."^[9] He also said, "That doesn't mean I'm threatening to burn you. That just means if you strike the match, and you put your finger in it, common sense will tell you it'll burn your finger. Common sense will tell you that in these strikes, that when you inject scabs, a number of things happen. And a confrontation is one of the potentials that can happen. Do I want it to happen? Absolutely not. Do I think it can happen? Yes, I think it can happen."^[8] The Associated Press reported that he was not threatening violence, and noted that UMWA staff had spent "thousands of man hours trying to prevent anything from happening ... to our members or by our members."^[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Trumka

Don't forget the nutjob how killed Gabriel Giffords because of Radia Rwanda aka FOX NOISE.

Bev, baby-

You've been drinking the progressive kool-aid way too long. There is none so blind as she who will not see. You are obviously an idealogue, incapable of objectivity. You strain at gnats and swallow camels whole. Obama's RECORD being hung around his neck equates Jim Crow?????? His record SHOULD be hung around his neck! If he is to be hung, it COULD be for TREASON, not his race! Would a white racist party love Clarence Thomas, Alan West and Herman Cain? But, since you brought up Grandma, would a BLACK RACIST THROW HIS WHITE GRANNIE UNDER THE BUS? QOUTH OUR BLACK RACIST PRESIDENT:"... .. The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a TYPICAL WHITE PERSON who, uh, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know there's a reaction that's been been bred into our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way and that's just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it..." - Senator Barack Obama, in the extreme right wing Huffington Puffington Post. You lefties accuse the right of every wretched thing you practice. Embrace the truth- it shall set you free!

Did you just obliquely charge Obama with Treason? For which you think he should be hung?

Wait, I think I was far too kind to dnolan. Treason, really? Shame on you.

@ Bev..."

Don't forget the nutjob how killed Gabriel Giffords because of Radia Rwanda aka FOX NOISE.

You do realize Bev ..that Gabbie is not dead. In fact she is in Florida to attend her husbands shuttle launching.

Bev:

Gabby is not dead. And what does Radio Rwanda aka FOX NOISE have anything to do with it. Gabby is my Congresswoman and a major couragous fighter for my area of Arizona. The "nutjob" probably has issues other than FOX NOISE. We are still trying to find out. I am a strong Democrat. I believe we need to work on things together and yes, I feel the Republicans and Tea Party members are making things worse. We need to help the people of America, not the rich to get richer and the poor poorer. We need to forget racism, big issue here in Arizona because of illegal immigration, and work together. Both SIDES, not just one.

bev, bev, bev - We can pick our friends, but we can't pick our family. Do you really believe obama hates his mothers side of the family tree?

See you aswered Feisty's post.. Guessing you mean on both sides of the aisle with respect to this site.

Ira, the folks on this site run about 90:10 liberal to conservative. Anyone who offers a contrary opinion is immediately put down, called names, declared ignorant, racist, a hater, etc...in short, being 'intolerant.'

So you're saying I can agree with both sides on some things posted here is not going to sit well?

Thx

Lynching was a shameful part of American history. No one disagrees. Romney didn't use the word lynch he said hang it around his neck...a cliche used every day. If a black man said it would it be racist. Stop creating unecessary drama over an unintended remark that PC folks don't recognize for what it was.

dear ira

being white I doubt that you have any idea what it means to say "put a rope" around Obama's neck !!! what the F*CK DO YOU THINK IS THE PURPOSE OF PUTTING A NOOSE AROUND A BLACK MAN'S NECK ??? or are you too stupid to figure that one out ??? and yes GOOGLE THE IMAGES IF YOU DARE !!!

p.s. you are clearly not an African American and even reporters in the room with romney recognized the implications of his statement !!! SOMETHING YOU AE WILLING TO OVER LOOK!!! I WONDER WHY ???

smith 1...

Not to be redundant...

What he said was not intended to be racist and this PC stuff to stir up a controversy where there's none is nonsense.

Ever hear the expression, Give him enough rope to hang himself.

Ever hear Like an Albatross hanging around his neck.

Ever hear, let him talk, he's hanging himself.

These are cliche's used as everyday expressions. Just because the man is black doesn't make the comment or me racist. As I said, if a black man said the exact samee thing I'd know what he was talking about.

Hey, there's enough REAL problems in this country and to fight about this is totally non productive.

dear ira

I can only say that one cannot defend what's indefensible !!! and yes you need to GOOGLE the images !!! WHITE AMERICA NEEDS TO GOOGLE THE IMAGES !!!

smith 1..

Just because...

On April 14, 1967, I was sitting in Riverside Church in NYC, listening to Martin Luther King give a speech denouncing the war in Viet Nam. That was 3 month before I shipped out to Viet Nam. Some of us " shriveled up old white guys" who need to "realize through knowledge of this country's brutal and racist history" were actually doing something when you were in pampers.

Mr Smith...thanks for the history lesson.

It was bad enough when Romney caught himself he still couldn't stifle his giggle, but the FACT that the audience found it SO freakin funny is what makes it indefensible!

Like I said 'code' words...

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL..

No one is questioning the reaction of the audience. That's indefensiible. Racists who find the lynching of a black man, or ant man funny. These are sick people.

Dear Smith 1, Did you know that all the individuals who were sold into slavery out of Africa were captured and sold by their own people in Africa before they even set foot on the ship that would carry them to either North America, South America or Europe? Did you know that of over 12 million that were sold into slavery only 500,000 came to the United States. Did you know that the majority were sent to either Central America and South America. Did you know you never hear the issue of slavery come up in any one of the Central or South American countries since they have left it in the past. Did you know if it wasn't for your ancestors possibly coming here as slaves you in fact would not be here. Instead you would be somewhere else possibly worse off since you could have ended up in a country that does not have the political freedoms you now enjoy.

BTW did you know that the Irish came here as indentured servants and so did most of the Chinese who built the railroads.

Mr. Smith:

While you're googling, perhaps you can google images of dead white Union Soldiers who died for your freedom. Have a nice day.

dear ryan

that may be true !!! but you ignore the fact that slavery in Africa did not mean FOREVER !!! so selling an enemy into SLAVERY was just that person !!! only white Europeans decided that it would apply to ALL OF THE DECEDENTS OF THAT INITIAL SLAVE !!! so, NO MORE BULL SH*T LIKE THAT LITTLE TIDBIT OF INFORMATION !!!

p.s. when was the last time that you read a book about slavery. the slave trade or slavery in the Americas ??? I'll give the answer-NEVER !!!

dnolan999...

You mean, images of both the BLACK and WHITE soldiers fighting to save the UNION. The issue that started the Civil War was states rights and NOT slavery. If Lincoln could have negotiated the non cesssationof the South, slavery would never have been an issue. Lincoln was not an emancipationist.

Ira, it's not the first part of the quote from Romney that is at issue. I and many others understand the literary reference.

Well we're going to hang the Obama misery index around his neck."

It's the SECOND part of the quote that concerns us.

He continued, " The fact that you've got people in this country really squeezed…We're going to hang him with that, so to speak, metaphorically, with uh, you have to be careful these days."

Romney goes from literary to historically charged reference. And he seems to realize it himself because the extended quote has him adding "metaphorically" and "you have to be careful".

While it may not have been intentional, it was unfortunate. It will be used by others for their own ends. It should never have been used at all.

dear ira

as much as I love your history and comments I am obliged to remind you that after the civil war the black soldiers and their descendants endured another 100 YRS of state sponsored terrorism(KKK) and apartheid !!! and for those of us who are VIETNAM ERA(my draft lottery # was 63), many of us came back to a south where we still couldn't vote, stay in hotels or eat in restaurants !!! tell me, did you have that problem-EVER ???

I got off the the same plane you did at Travis Air Force base when returning home from the war, and I was told to take off my uniform before going to catch my airplane home. I was called a baby killer in the press and by the anti war movement. I had to hide the fact that I honerably served my country. No, never had a problem with hotels or voting but was discriminated against in another way. I could correct your history of black's in America after the Civil War, but it doesn't matter, I get your point. Point now is, what's past is history and not the story of America today. I get it, you're angry about treatment of blacks in our history. Keep that anger and and they win.

History stays with you, like debt, until you work or pay it off. Anger is not the enemy, indifference is the problem. We'll "move on" after you are willing to make it right.

Making it right as in monetary? Who alive today was responsible for anything to do with slavery? Who will pay? The people of the US that did not live during that time? The government of the US that is not the same government that was in control then? When the government pays it is the people that pay. Again, no person alive today was a slave nor owned a slave. Why do we NOW have to pay for something we had no hand in?

@smith, blame the Democrats for the creation of the KKK

The profits of slavery are still with us. The money has transfered from generation to generation. Just because you have inherited wealth from the proceeds of a CRIME doesn't mean you should get to keep the ill gotten gain.

Do you know who these people are exactly or do you just want white people in general to pay this money? What if a family that owned slaves lost everything and 3 generations later gained it back through legitimate means? How would you differentiate? Would it matter? I have a suspicious feeling that if you could trace the money back that you would cast into poverty alot of rich Democrats.......

lessons-in-governing..

Cause they were there to cover a story that went nowhere, thus the need to create one. Totally agree that their behavior helped create this non story.

Ira, Haven't you ever heard some say "I shouldn't say..." then they go ahead and say it? It's a common conversational device, where the speaker gets points for knowing the social norms, while buying the liberty to break them. It creates rapport with the listener who gets to vicariously indulge in the forbidden speech. "I know I shouldn't say this, but the minister bored me last week."

Amy...this is one time we need to agree to disagree. I think the remark was harmless and not intended to stir up controversy. Romney is steering away from the press and anything controversial. He is simply going down the GOP talking points. You think he wanted to create press coverage over a "racial" comment. I think it was totally unintended. Still read your posts everyday.

Ira, I don't disagree with you. I think Romney was just applying Reagan's metaphor to Obama...but then he noticed the association to lynching himself, pointed it out, then giggled about it, showing a secret thrill at the very idea of lynching Obama.

I think that's why the reporters cringed. Not just at the idea of hanging a misery index on Obama.

Amy B. Portland, ME..

Tell you what...I will watch the video on the news tonight and if you're right I will correct my post. Deal?

Ira, I was thinking the same thing! I should watch the video before jumping to conclusions! If I am wrong I will own up to it.

Ok, Ira, I just saw the Romney clip on NBC. From the clip I would say it was not meant as a racist dig, I did overact.
Romney wasn't being racist. He was being a typical jerk politician.

The next clip was of Obama talking about defunding oil subsidies. The contrast between the two men was startling. Obama is focused on serious issues and Romney is just a snarky old pol.

Hanging something on someone and hanging someone with something are two different things.

Amy B. Portland, ME..

Thanks for being honest about it. You're a great part of this blog...keep it up.

Yes I am. :) You're a great part too, Ira.

Ira, It's somewhat difficult to take a moderate position around here. But since your a vet you know how to keep your head down. My husband was over there with you. Have a good weekend

lisa s-1749992..

Thx and a good weekend to you and your husband. Please thank him for his service for me.

Being a moderate around here is hard....you get it from all sides.

....read some posts today and you're right. On this site you're either dem or GOP and that makes you absolutely either right or wrong...there is no middle ground here. There is no middle ground for conversation or reason. If you can't hear each other then why bother.

Ira, an outstanding point and observation. Thank you. We all need the middle ground. We are quickly forgetting the arts of reasoning and conversation.

Fielden, I agree with both you and Ira. Neither the far-right or the far-left will decide this next election. Moderates and independents will. The only real ground is middle ground. All the mud slinging hurts us all. We can not solve the real problems we are facing if all we do is jockey for field position.

I think we will be seeing more code words in reference to racism by the right up until the next election

Thank you Tom!

Isn't it the right who constantly BRAGS about how proud they are of their messaging?

Anyone who refuses to recognize it lives on the bank of DE-NILE!

Hey...calling him a BLACK President is a code word isn't it, depending on which party you affiliate yourself with. Why can't we just call him the President of the United States? Why point out his race.

There is only one race. It is the human race. It would be that someone is pointing out his ethnic origin.

ryan-3399210..

definition in wikipedia..

Race Noun.

1. a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2. a population so related.
3. Anthropology .

a. any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
b. an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
c. a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.

Ron, Maybe we should look at this from the perspective of winning elections. Do the Democrats want to win elections by playing nice while the opposition is throwing everything at you including the kitchen sink.

We Democrats should make s#*t up as Republicans do. How about we say that the Republicans have a Senator from one of the southern states was a regular with hookers, or maybe one Senator was sleeping with a staff member and his parents paid off the husband to keep quiet, or how about this rumor, a Republican Christian conservative was soliciting gay sex at a airport bathroom.

Oh wait a minute, truth is stranger than fiction, those really are some of the guys that represent the Republicans in the Senate.

Let's face it President Obama isn't easy to pigeon-hole with any thing solid. Birth certificate? College transcripts? Sounds good. Let's see George W. Bush's while were at it. The Republicans can't just come out and say " Look at him. He's Black!" But obviously they are trying everything that they can think of to imply that he is somehow not legitimate.

It wasn't a "goof". it was a scripted ad-lib.

Truly a racist statement.

Yes, that is pathetic. But not as pathetic as our current president.

John Brown -

That's the truly scary part! As long as Trump is running around with his comic act he is taking the heat off the others and their crazy policy positions.

Yes, that's true. Similar to Obama being a big joke.