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Subscribe to RSSA reality about the 2012 field: Everyone is flawed… But here’s a reminder: Flawed candidates -- Bill Clinton, Barack Obama -- have gone on to win the White House… What matters is how the candidates respond to their flaws… Gingrich makes his ’12 candidacy official, and he confronts four challenges: 1) his personal baggage, 2) his lack of discipline, 3) being tied to Washington, and 4) his potential fundraising… Is Newt Charles de Gaulle?... Obama calls out Republicans for moving the goal posts on immigration reform… He participates in an economic town hall at 2:00 pm ET and then meets with the Senate Democratic caucus at 4:20 pm… And American Crossroads is on the air in NY-26.
*** A flawed field: Whether it’s Gingrich making his presidential bid official today (after a rough start two months ago), or Romney delivering a speech tomorrow on his Achilles heel (health care), or the latest NBC poll (showing President Obama’s economic approval at 37%), every 2012 candidate has this in common: They’re all flawed. In the GOP field, you have a failed former presidential candidate whose own health-care law is similar to President Obama's. You have a thrice-married former House speaker who left that office in an ethical cloud. You have a former Minnesota governor most Americans have never heard of (and when they have, he gets overshadowed by others). You have a former Pennsylvania senator who lost re-election in 2006 by 18 percentage points. And it’s likely you’ll soon have someone who faithfully (and uncritically) served in the Obama administration. On the Democratic side, meanwhile, you have an incumbent president overseeing an economy where the current unemployment rate is 9.0%.
*** But no one is ever perfect: Of course, flawed candidates always have gone on to win the White House. The winner in 1992 (Bill Clinton) was the governor of a small state who had a, well, colorful past. The winner in 2000 (George W. Bush) overcame doubts about his knowledge of world affairs, as well as booming economy under a Democratic administration. And the winner in 2008 (Barack Obama) triumphed despite questions about his experience and his worldview. What matters in presidential campaigns -- and we’ll witness this over the next year and a half -- is how the candidates conquer, exploit, or side-step their flaws. Nobody is perfect, especially in politics. But what counts is how they take a punch and respond. In many ways, a presidential primary campaign is a test to see who can BEST overcome obstacles.
*** Newt’s four challenges: And on that note, Newt Gingrich -- who makes his presidential campaign official today on Twitter, Facebook, and then an appearance with FOX’s Hannity -- perhaps has more to overcome than some of his GOP rivals. Our April NBC/WSJ poll tested 13 different candidate attributes. The worst attributes among Republicans (in order): being a former lobbyist (Barbour is now not running), having multiple marriages (which applies to Gingrich), being a FOX commentator (which Newt used to be), being a Mormon, and being a former House speaker (which applies to Gingrich, too). In our eyes, Gingrich has four challenges: 1) his personal baggage, and he’s trying to overcome it by making his wife, Callista, a big part of his campaign; 2) his lack of discipline, because saying things like Sonia Sotomayor is a racist or that Obama is best understood by his “Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior" won't simply become controversies confined to the blogosphere under the presidential spotlight; 3) the fact his ONLY experience is in Washington, making him the most "Washington" candidate in a year where being ANTI-Washington is going to be a plus; and 4) his fundraising -- where is his second $5 million going to come from?
*** Newt’s do-over: Gingrich’s announcement today comes more than two months after his “testing the waters” announcement landed with a thud. Back then, a key Gingrich adviser told at least one news organization that the former speaker was forming an exploratory committee when he wasn’t, and Newt’s testing-the-waters website used a stock photo that had once been featured on a Ted Kennedy site. A few weeks later, Gingrich drew ridicule when he flipped-flopped on whether the United States should have intervened in Libya. It wasn’t a smooth beginning for Newt. According to a recent Quinnipiac poll, while Gingrich enjoys high name recognition (only 7% hadn’t heard of him), he was the choice of just 5% of Republicans and GOP-leaning participants, MSNBC.com’s Carrie Dann notes. Gallup also found Gingrich with high name ID but low support.
*** Departure and return? But this also doesn’t mean that Gingrich should be ignored. In the New Republic, Walter Shapiro writes that Newt could be a force in the GOP primary field. “Gingrich … does not have to prove his right-from-the-start bona fides at every moment in the campaign. Back in the days when Mitt Romney was running against Teddy Kennedy as a Massachusetts moderate Republican, Gingrich not only personified conservatism but was the field marshal responsible for its greatest congressional victory.” And in the New York Times, Matt Bai says that Gingrich fashions himself as a Charles de Gaulle or Ronald Reagan. “In particular, Mr. Gingrich is a devotee of the historian Arnold J. Toynbee, who meditated on the concept of ‘departure and return’ — the idea that great leaders have to leave (or be banished from) their kingdoms before they can better themselves and return as conquering heroes.” By the way, Gingrich faces his first news interview on “Meet the Press” this Sunday.
*** A Moat to Nowhere: The most striking (and newest) part of Obama’s immigration speech yesterday was how he called out Senate Republicans who had once supported comprehensive immigration reform (like John McCain and Lindsey Graham). “We have gone above and beyond what was requested by the very Republicans who said they supported broader reform as long as we got serious about enforcement… They said we needed to triple the Border Patrol. Or now they’re going to say we need to quadruple the Border Patrol. Or they’ll want a higher fence. Maybe they’ll need a moat. Maybe they want alligators in the moat. They’ll never be satisfied. And I understand that. That’s politics.” Of course, so was the president’s speech yesterday -- given the unlikelihood that Congress could pass immigration reform and given the importance of the Latino vote in 2012.
*** Obama’s day: At 2:00 pm ET, President Obama participates in a CBS town hall on the economy. (As National Journal writes, the White House is probably hoping it goes better than the CNBC town hall he attended last year, when one of the questioners -- a supporter -- told the president that she was “exhausted of defending you.”) Then, at 4:20 pm, Obama meets with the Senate Democratic caucus to discuss “the nation’s long-term deficit challenges,” as the White House puts it.
*** American Crossroads on the air in NY-26: How nervous are Republicans about the possibility they could lose the special congressional election later this month to fill the seat vacated by ex-GOP Rep. Chris Lee (he of the topless photo)? Well, American Crossroads is up with a TV ad hitting the third-party candidate in the race, Jack Davis, who appears to be drawing support from the Republican candidate. Democrats are still hesitant about getting involved. Why? New York is losing two congressional seats in redistricting, so this seat is likely to be eliminated.
Countdown to NY-26 special election: 13 days
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 93 days
Countdown to NV-2 special election: 125 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 181 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 271 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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The rhetoric on the Debt Ceiling is starting to heat up. I have posted my position on Spending Cuts several times and I think it appropriate to revisit them again now that it appears we are really starting to look at this problem. Most of us can agree that we do need to get Government Spending under control. But spending cuts alone is not the answer. We also need to increase revenues as well. One without the other just will not work in the long term.
In my opinion everything (and I mean everything) needs to be on the table, no exceptions. So when I hear the GOP/TP set restrictions on what they will consider I conclude that they are not serious and this is going to be another my way or the highway hostage taking exercise. We see it already when Rep. Boehner says no tax increases period but then says everything else is on the table right after they vote to keep the Oil Subsidies. So enough of the BS from both sides. It is time to roll up their sleeves and put together a plan that is meaningful and sustainable. It must share the sacrifice across the board and not put the burden on just one group like the GOP/TP is currently trying to do. Everybody pays something on this one, no exceptions.
What about cutting the fraud out of DOD Budget?
Defense contractors that were convicted of defrauding the Pentagon received new contracts from the Department of Defense in the amount of 285 billion dollars over a three year span.
Even more shocking is the determination of the Department of Defense to continue the practice of steering taxpayer dollars into the bank accounts of contractors that the courts say intentionally stole money from the federal government.
Now, the question is whether Congress will be as tough on multinational corporations with long-term patterns of wrongdoing as it was on a community group that made a few mistakes. Remember the Acorn Standard?
Source: http://www.thenation.com/blog/158250/pentagon-fraud-papers-contractors-defrauded-dod-were-rewarded-285-billion-new-contracts
What about addressing the fraud in Medicare/Medicaid?
“CBS Reported of all the problems facing the United States right now, none are more important than health care.
President Obama says the rising costs of the last decade are driving huge federal budget deficits that will put our future in harms way, and that there is enough waste and fraud in the system currently to pay for health care reform if it was eliminated”.
”In fact, Medicare fraud - estimated now to total about $50 - $60 billion per year. See 2010 for example.
This story may raise your blood pressure, along with some troubling questions about our government's ability to manage a medical bureaucracy”.
Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/23/60minutes/main5414390.shtml
What about addressing the source of the double digit annual increase in Health Care Cost?
Like the Insurance Companies who have bloated administration costs. Drug Companies, let’s buy drugs in bulk like Medicaid or bring them in from Canada, why are the same drugs cheaper in other countries than they are here? Medical Product Manufacturers and Distributors, many are running like monopolies. Until these entities are brought into line Health Care Costs are going to continue to increase at double digit rates.
What about the Tax Loopholes that allows multinational corporations to hide money offshore?
What do tax loopholes cost: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html
“Those ‘expenditures’ will cost the U.S. government $628.6 billion over the next five years, according to a 2010 report from the Tax Foundation. With advice from the Urban Institute’s Eric Toder, one of the country’s foremost authorities on corporate tax policy, we assembled the 10 most costly corporate tax loopholes and who benefits from them”.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/corporate-tax-breaks-2011-2#ixzz1G981OjMg
Tax Cuts for the top 2%?
We do need to address the tax cuts for the richest 2% that cost this country about 150 Billion per year (income, capital gains/dividends and estate taxes). This is 1.5 Trillion Dollars over the next decade and that number is growing as the richest 2% keep making more money. It is a fact that tax cuts to the rich do not create jobs nor do they stimulate the economy. Just look at the last 10 years. Where are the Jobs and where is the economy. It is a failed ideology. Trickle down economics does not work. It has not in the past and still does not.
And there are more high ticket items that can be cut or eliminated as well that nobody is talking about
Get out of Afghan and Iraq – these Two Wars cost the taxpayers over 100 Billion per year, especially now in Afghan that OBL is dead.
Stop all the subsidies to Oil and Gas Companies – here is another 53 Billion over the next decade
Tax Reform for the other 98% that level out the playing field. I have no problem paying a few dollars more every year as long as everybody is paying something and the monies collected are used to move this country forward.
Currently Congress is going after all the wrong things. What is cutting a few Million off a Social Program really going to do for a deficit that is 1.5 Trillion – nothing. What I am saying is we need to go after the meat and potatoes and cut the fraud, over spending, mismanagement etc from those. Right now we are still just playing with the desert.
And we also need to address the same issue at the Federal level as well. Too many departments doing the same thing that needs to be consolidated. Not only would that also save Billions and Billions but it would make the Government more efficient as well which save more money in the long run.
What I am not for is the “Privatization” of Medicare via a Voucher Program. I am not for making Medicaid a “Block Grant” program. Neither of these solves the problems but merely shift the costs to entities that over time cannot afford them. Over time Medicare and Medicaid will not be available for the very people the GOP/TP claim they are protecting it for. The GOP/TP is NOT protecting these programs for future use at all; they have put them on a road to collapse. We have to attack the underlining problems with costs and stop attacking the beneficiaries. Medicare and Medicaid Programs are not the blame here any more than those citizens using them. The GOP/TP is attacking the wrong end of the serpent.
Again, everything really needs to be on the table and the sacrifice needs to be felt by all Americans not just one class or the other but everybody needs to have a stake in this.
Now we also need JOBS that will also create additional revenues in the form of more people working so more people paying their taxes. The Government needs to create the environment to create jobs like a Jobs Bill to address the 3 Trillion Dollars of Infrastructure Maintenance that is needed in our States. A JOBS Bill to promote high tech companies etc. The government cannot create Private Sector Jobs per se but hey can have an impact.
'Flawed Field' you say?
I'm thinking more along the lines of a 'Motley Crew'!
The Teapublicans sure have a 'branding problem'!
PS: LOVE LOVE LOVED the Presidents comments about the moat! He showed again his 'wicked' sense of humor! ;o)
Looks like John Kerry is auditioning for Secretary of State if Barry gets reelected. He has announced he will be going to Pakistan to meet with “all the main players” in Pakistan. I can just see the headlines now: “Kerry tells Pakistani officials says he was for killing bin Laden before he was against it”
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
'Flawed Field' you say?
You betcha; wink wink
I think Newt is indeed the most flawed, lying, serial, divorcee out of the whole lot of misfits.
Our President is nowshowing leadership. He called the GOP/TP out on Immigration. He gave them everything they wanted on Boarder Security and they stilled filibustered the Dream Act even though they (GOP/TP) supported it in the beginning and the majority of the American people supported it as well.
Their deceit and false rhetoric has been exposed again and the GOP/TP does not like it.
Good Morning Navy!
EXCELLENT points this morning - as usual!
Any bets on how long it will be before you're collapsed?
I do believe I set a record yesterday! ;op
The trolls are certainly nervous these days... lol
I don’t remember who said it, or where I heard it (the old Countdown show?), but I remember someone saying of G W Bush when he was still president; “I don’t always agree with a lot of his policies or positions, but he’s MY president, and I WANT him to be successful”.
I know the following regulars on these threads don’t agree with President Obama’s policies or positions most of the time-
NoJo
Spanky
‘True’ American
JoAannaSmith1
Juven
Joe, Albany
Steve
And many others.
- and it’s ok. No one is ever going to agree 100% with anyone’s policies and positions.
BUT- do you all consider Barak Obama YOUR president, and do you hope he IS successful as the president of the Untied States of America?
The Future President?
I can wager any one who wishes it WON’T be a republican; especially Newt Gingrich.
First of all, going on FOX NOISE's iHannity s like getting the kiss of death.
But just who is Newton Leroy Gingrich, really? An epic and bizarre story of American power in an unsettled age.
Why Marianne Gingrich Told Me About a Vulnerable Newt
Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/marianne-gingrich-behind-the-scenes-081010#ixzz1M3LLELq1
[snip]
It was the racism that threw me. As a reporter, I've always believed that everyone has some kind of inner coherence. No matter how inexplicable their behavior may be, there is always logic somewhere.
He said it to a group of Tea Party leaders: "The national news media is pathetic. They keep talking about his three-point basketball shot and not the 17 percent under-employment. Those are the most expensive basketball shots in history — $1 million a shot."
Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/marianne-gingrich-behind-the-scenes-081010#ixzz1M3MLKigP
But in front of a large group of Southern conservatives, Gingrich chose to associate the president with athletics. He didn't mention fried chicken or watermelon, but he didn't have to. Just before he made the jump-shot crack, one member of the audience called Obama "the Kenyan." Gingrich said nothing. Another complained about all the shiftless people living on welfare in New Orleans. Gingrich didn't say anything then, either.
But he did speak up when someone bashed Mexicans, saying that they were often good, hardworking people. That puzzled me. What was the point of that? Was he just trying to position himself as a reasonable person? Was it pure strategy? Or was it a glimpse into the real feelings buried under the man's political calculations?
Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/marianne-gingrich-behind-the-scenes-081010#ixzz1M3MB5YVU
And reported yesterday that Pakistan released the name of the CIA Chief there. This is the second time they have done this. With friends like this we do not need enemies. Now they say they will allow us to interview the wives. That only tells me that they do not have any real information to give us. I doubt OBL shared any real intelligence on what he was doing with them. It is not in their culture to do so for one.
Navy, that was an outstanding beginning to a thoughtful and focused discussion. Let's hope that others who sometimes come here only to carp and sling mud will decide maybe it's time for civil conversation about options.
I don't entirely agree with some of your points. For example, while I indeed want to see our military adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan concluded, neither do I wish to see all our years of loss and effort just dumped at the Kabul airport and wasted. It's something of a matter of "We went into the china shop and broke the stuff, now we have to clean up after ourselves."
The Congressional Progressive Caucus offered an extremely well-thought-out budget plan some while back. It combines cuts with revenue increases, along the lines of many of your points, to achieve excellent results in the coming few years. And that plan does NOT rely on gutting the government and many important programs - which both the Ryan proposal and now the latest new GOP budget plan both do.
Further, the CPC budget proposal actually DOES reduce deficits and attack the debt - while the GOP proposals both first ADD to the deficit, and don't achieve budget balances or surpluses for another 60 years!
Nobel economics laureate Joseph Stiglitz recently has had a great deal to say about how to address government finances, preserve social equity, and address consequences of changes that could aid or damage economic recovery. These are also issues that are part of the budget and debt debate.
So far, the GOP approach has been one of an automaton repeating over and over, "Slashonomics," hiding behind the deficit and debt discussion to conceal their true intent of turning this country back more than 160 years. As long as the Republicans allow the tiny minority Tea Party interest to hijack the debate and repeat that mantra, there will be no genuine effort at solving the overall issues of policy and fiscal improvement.
Thanks, Navy, for your thoughtful and neutral approach. Forgive me for taking up the partisan cudgel of policy.
Flawed President?
Or, who is the President?
I always believed Obama had a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, actually I still do, but who is the new guy - the conservative cowboy national security guy that is the exact diametric of the liberal human/civil rights for terrorist of the world national security guy we all have known and loved? Multiple Personality Disorder?
The guy who deplored all the Bush protocols, the guy whose Justice Department even considered prosecuting Bush's lawyers for writing some of those very protocols and prosecuting CIA interrogators that led to OBL demise, now says ........
Maybe Obama had his head examined ...... and came to his senses. I dunno, but "taking bin Laden out" almost sounds a little like Bush's "Dead or Alive" dictum, huh?
The SEALS who rightly deserved / received such high praise and acclaim from Obama for exposing OBL's brains to the light of day is great ........ but what about the 3 operators of SEAL Team 10 who were court-martialed under this CIC for allegedly punching, (after they captured him), the mastermind of the brutal killing of 4 Americans, the mutilating, burning and hanging of their corpses from a bridge in Fallujah? Take the word of this scum bag over the word of the SEALs?
The SEALs were acquitted but still ....... pretty pathetic of Obama and hardly the same as last week.
Obama tries to "take out" another bad guy in Yemen, Anwar al-Walaki, but misses. No biggie, except I thought that libs were against targeted assassinations of American citizens who haven't even been charged, much less convicted in any US court. Any who ... it's all good.
Speaking of drone attacks, Obama did manage to score on Friday with a big "take out" of suspected militants in Pakistan. What does that make it ..... about 4 times Bush's kill total that Obama had decried?
New cowboy categories for $200. How about killing one of Gadhafi's kids. I know, a "military target" - Reagan tried to "accidently" kill Gadhafi too. But seriously, his kid's house in a residential neighborhood? That's pretty good.
Obama stops oil production in the Gulf because of pollution caused by BP ...... but then turns around and pollutes the entire North Arabian Sea by dumping OBL in it!
Who is this guy?
Hi Drive By,
Good point. Also, I'm wondering of the Republican posters you listed, if they believe President Obama was actually born in the United States, and which person from their field they would endorse for President?
According to today’s WSJ, yesterday the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond VA heard arguments in two cases challenging the constitutionality of ClunkerCare. The judges, two Barry appointees and one Clinton appointee were, not surprisingly, supportive of ClunkerCare and will likely find it to be constitutional. Then the SC will get its chance in the 2011-12 term, right in the middle of the Presidential election. This should be entertaining. If the SC finds it unconstitutional, will our constitutional law professor President try to overrule them with an Executive Order like he is now trying to overrule the SC decision in Citizen’s United??
Great start to the day. President Obama said it best a few weeks ago when he gave his budget speech. This is a discussion about what our country looks like--do we pull together to get great things done, or do we remake ourselves into a new American aristocracy? Does the government serve the average citizen, or the most wealthy among us?
The transparent attempts to tie President Obama to Bush is fast becoming an obsession with some...
It might be amusing if it weren't so pitiful & deceptive. lol
What is it you all say - Oh I know; EPIC FAIL!
Drive-by, the problem is not disagreeing with the policies per se- it is knowing that they will fail.
Many of us knew that spending almost a trillion in hopes of stimulating the economy would stimulate nothing but the debt. Think there is any joy is the results? I can assure you, you are wrong.
Speaking of wrong- with gas at about four dollars a gallon, Obama proposes raising the cost of doing business on the oil companies. A rational person knows that raising the cost will only result in raising prices for consumers. So, is Obama irrational? He must be, if he thinks the political points he assumes will attain to him will offset the hit of even higher gas prices.
Speaking of gas prices- Obama was warned that war and weather would combine to create food shortages in Africa and the Middle East, which would, in turn, cause instability in the region. He ignored the advice- what he should have done was direct our Agriculture Department to urge farmers to increase production of wheat and consumable corn. There would then have been
adequate food supplies, and much if not all of the chaos in the region would have been avoided.
Weakening the dollar for the purpose of boosting exports was a rotten idea- playing around with the currency for purposes other than controlling the money supply always has the bad result of igniting inflation.
Putting a toe in the Libyan water was also a rotten idea. One either gets fully involved in such situations, or stays out completely.
I could go on, but you get the general idea. The problem with the Obama administration is that there are some who get emotional fulfillment from his presidency- but little else. That may be enough for them, but the economic and geopolitical ramifications of his wrongheaded policies are having a dire effect on the country.
Sorry, but I just cannot clap my hands over his failures.
Feisty:
I do not know but I made a copy anyway. I am just saying that for we as a country to fix this mess have to work together on this one. We cannot have one party or the other putting conditions on the debate (compromise) before it even starts. That makes no sense to me and I suspect it does not make sense to most people.
I have to believe people want to wake up tomorrow and know this country is still here. Now, that requies we work together and stop the petty bickering. If you make a commitment then to help, then help. If not get out of the way.
This type of action really has to be debated. What is the limit on what is basically executive order executions? This has nothing to do with the Obama administration this has to be a discussion on limits to executive power.
Feisty: since no jo knows EXACTLY what is wrong and how to fix it, you have to wonder why SHE doesn't run! All that hate and no place to put it, she could get it out daily in a campaign.
I don’t remember who said it, or where I heard it (the old Countdown show?), but I remember someone saying of G W Bush when he was still president; “I don’t always agree with a lot of his policies or positions, but he’s MY president, and I WANT him to be successful”.
___________________________________________________
where I heard it (the old Countdown show?),?!?!?!?!?!
Yeah, right. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The FR and MSDNC lefty liberals are still routinely bashing GWB two and a half years after the end of his Presidency. And you want anyone to believe the crappola you are quoting above. Sorry, dbo, your bait is rotten and I'm not taking it.
John A:
Thank you for the feedback and I do agree with Afghan/Iraq. I think even that OBL is gone that we will have to keep some troops in Afghan, if for no other reason than to keep our eyes there so if something develops we can nail it at the beginning.
I rreally appreciate your feedback and we are pretty much on the same page. Thanks again. And great post.
John- the government exists to protect the country from invasion, to protect the rights of citizens to live peaceful, productive lives- and to lock up those who refuse to live peaceful lives. To provide a civil court system so that property rights can be defended.
It DOES NOT exist for the purpose of redistributing wealth from one person to another.
"Free candy over here" has been the democratic mantra for so long you seem to have forgotten that it is a political tactic, and not a constitutional right.
Yesterday's oral arguments in Virginia's 4th Circuit Court of Appeals revealed a surprise - the discussion did not focus on the merits of the Health Care Access law, it focused on the authority of states to refuse to observe a Federal statute.
This was one of the great early conflicts between states and the central government. The South Carolina "nullification" crisis of 1833 pitted that state, which was angered over a Federal tariff that put the state at a disadvantage, against the Federal government. The matter might have gone to trial and been settled in a Constitutional confrontation, but was instead resolved with some diplomacy between White House and State House - so ultimately, the kernel of the issue was instead resolved in trial by combat during the American Civil War.
Now essentially "nullification" again rises to the surface. If this is the basis of the Appeals Court decision and goes to the Supreme Court, it is likely that challenges to the HCA's content will not be taken up. And it appears most probable that the Supreme Court will not endorse "nullification."
@Navy
I think your figures for the tax rates for the top 2% are wrong. Most of the estimates I have seen are 70B per year for a 10 year total of 700B.
But my question is what tax rates should the federal government enact? I believe that the Republicans were duplicitous 2002 - 2006 by deliberately running deficits to try and "drown the government in the bathtub". On the other hand Democrats have never admitted to the people what the true cost of government is by pushing entitlements into the future and covering other costs through borrowing. President Obama's assertion that we can maintain entitlements by eliminating fraud and asking the rich to pay a little more is disingenuous. We are going to pay more.
For 2012 I want to know from each party what the government will provide and what it will cost...with NO borrowing and that it will reduce the debt.
Speaking of a FLAWED candidate! LOL
Come to think of it - you might be on to something - she's a qualified serial liar, who's morally bankrupt.
Newt/NJNB 2012
Ahh Yes. The famous "Trickle Down" lie. Seen this before. Rich guys and mega Corporations stand over me and Trickle on me. I can feel it now.
US Navy, it pays to keep repeating the facts--great job.
It would be nice if politicians in Washington could have an honest debate and discussion but then it would be nice if FR posters could have an honest debate and discussion, too. One has only to read here to understand why Congress is dysfunctional.
Yep, Feisty, she fits perfectly into this field.
I guess the title of this article says it all.
Navy,
In your first point you ask about cutting fraud of DOD, Medicarse and Medicaid. Closing Tax Loopholes .....
I thought Obama made those promises ....... What has he said , what has he done as President?
Tax cuts for the top 2% ........ played you guys on that, huh/ Or was he lying when he said the tax cuts would help the recovery after he signed the extension?
Get out of Afghanistan and Irag? Obama doubled down on Afghanistan and started a THIRD war!
His averaged war spending per year is HIGHER THAN BUSH'S.
What doesn't make sense ...... is how and why you guys support Obama.
No Jo, your extremist narrow view of the purpose of the government was long ago recognized as insufficient - by the REPUBLICAN Party, which beginning in the 1880's and continuing to this time (at least among the centrist, sane members of the party) has largely realized that the government, private enterprise, and the interests of the people are all inextricably linked together.
You should study the history of public policy, the development of the national economy and banking system, the history of regulation ranging from anti-trust laws to currency controls or from food safety to drugs, the development of the national safety net, and much more before you continue with your ultra-right Lbertarian cant about this topic.
Among the more important contributors to the New Deal were Progressive Republicans, including the LaFolletes of Wisconsin (oh, how they'd be so FAST to switch to the Democratic Party today!).
Your perspective is that of the Jacksonian democracy of the latter 1820's. The United States is not the same sort of country as it was then. Its political philosophy, its industrial structure, its economic activies - in fact, EVERYTHING about this nation has advanced so far since then.
Your views are compatible with those who idealize a pastoral era log gone by (that never really was so wonderful, either) - but not the world of today.
It is precisely the difference of views that President Obama addressed when he said that the extreme ideologues of the right wish to change our social compact. You do, indeed - and you would literally destroy the nation if you were to succeed.
"Newt/NJNB 2012"
Sounds like a winning combination, Feisty, but I wouldn't get too attached to it - knowing Newt, even if they do win, halfway through the first term he'll just dump her for a younger, blonder trophy Vice President.....
JoAnne! Still laughing...
bob-1805084 Obama signed the extension of the Bush tax cuts, because the GOP house refused to do anything else until he did.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
And reported yesterday that Pakistan released the name of the CIA Chief there. This is the second time they have done this. With friends like this we do not need enemies.
You said something that is very truthful. I enjoyed reading your first post.
My husband and I were discussing why we should leave Pakistan just a few days ago.
Alan NJ - your comment about a 2012 budget with NO BORROWING automatically derails your plans or ideas. The government is not, and should not, necessarily be operating on "current receipts" if and when it needs long-term debt to stabilize and sustain operations. This is the assumption behind the present resistance to raising the debt ceiling - forcing the U.S. to operate on "current receipts" will produce a collapse that makes the Bush Recession seem like a walk in the park.
It is an ABSOLUTE FALLACY that government is like a business or household that must balance its monthly books. The long history of government fiscal policy and the role of debt in making possible a large modern nation state has been published here - by me - several times, so I won't repeat it.
The REAL issue associated with the public debt is the rate at which that debt matures and is retired, thereby sustaining the nation's creditworthiness and restraining the costs of debt service. Again, I have published details of this before - and anyone who wishes can click on my ID to go to the page where those articles are available.
For a very interesting and illuminating discussion of this very topic, please see Paul M. Kennedy's outstanding book, The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers. Chapters 3 and 4 will be particularly interesting.
What is odd, John, is that I seem to know a little bit more about the history you speakmof than do you.
You are absolutely right- at the turn of the Twentieth Century, the republican party was the far more liberal party. Roosevelt, (Franklin Delano, that is), campaigned and won by touting his familial connection to Roosevelt, (Theodore).
So, you are right- many of those republicans WOULD be democrats today.
And?
For the record, you obviously had a knee- jerk reaction to my comments. Court systems exist to ensure the equal enforcement of laws. Not one word of my comment had to do with not enacting laws.
My problem is the wholesale theft of property from one segment of society for the purpose of awarding it to another segment of society.
The government does not exist to do that- at least, not this government.
tweet,
So when Obama said the tax cut extension he signed would help the recovery, was he lying, or are you libs against helping the recovery and just hate the rich?
I love my country soo much (with patriotism oozing out of my ears)....sh!t, that means I should be looking for my next wife...right about now... the current one is on her death bed anyways.
(Newt need to be neutered - and bring his buddy John Edwards along with him)... and this idiots are running for president.
If one can not be faithful to the one they are supposed to protect, why in the world would anyone trust them running the country? Newt Excuse or reasoning was quite pathetic though...he wraps himself in the holier than thou cloak and the patriotism flag and then do the opposite. Republicans need to just stop claiming the values angle or social conservative angle, since they very loudly and clearly do the opposite.
At the debate the other night, they spent a minuscule amount of time on Jobs or anything relevant, but rather that they don't like Obama... like the president said in the past, some people are just morally and intellectually bankrupt.
LoL Bipartisan neutering -- the crazy new party game for political party animals.
No Jo, I got such a nice laugh from your response. Since I consistently use detailed historical material to cream your comments, especially ....
Just one little thought: by the standards of today's GOP, EISENHOWER would be a left-of-center Democrat. The very idea of the "center" was shifted much too far to the right between 1976 and 1980 with the influence of findamentalist right-wing Christians and Libertarians on the GOP's agenda.
Now, about redistribution of wealth. You're right - the GOP/TP platform today continues the redistribution of wealth from working people and the middle class to less than 1% of this nation's people. I absolutely agree that has to STOP.
END THE REPUBLICAN CLASS WARFARE ON ORDINARY FOLK.
Woohoo, dream ticket. Might move to Chicago so I can vote early and often for that one.
@John
I don't disagree with you. Let me clarify. There has to be a plan to reduce debt as a percentage of GDP or we will be in for a massive credit crunch. I do not believe that the speakers proposal for reducing spending by the same amount that the credit limit is raised is feasible, and the effects you describe above are likely. However, there has to be a true accounting for government spending that pays for current expenditures. Long-term borrowing is usually for investment and capital projects. Our current borrowing is to cover the cost of living. That is what is unsustainable.
yea, he is our President, but whoever wins the REP nomination will have my vote. How do you define success?
signed,
Registered DEM in the Sunshine state.
Fascinating information this morning, John A. I particularly am intrigued by the "nullification" comments. The GOPTP of today is essentially trying to reform the United States in the image of the old Confederacy. The Confederacy was effectively a failed state from its very beginnings, which is why they lost the Civil War in spite of having the most talented officer corps and the bulk of all early military success.
One always expects no jo to act like she know all, but it is absolutely incorrect to suggest that FDR campaigned on his family connections given the tensions of that time.
I found this quote in the article quite interesting...
"What matters in presidential campaigns -- and we’ll witness this over the next year and a half -- is how the candidates conquer, exploit, or side-step their flaws. Nobody is perfect, especially in politics. But what counts is how they take a punch and respond. In many ways, a presidential primary campaign is a test to see who can BEST overcome obstacles."
Of course, when you're a candidate who has the majority of the media basically ignoring your flaws, deflecting the punches for you, and shouting down any obstacles that are brought up, your ride to the presidency is nice and smooth. Just ask the current occupant of the Oval Office.
'Flawed Field' you say?
I'm thinking more along the lines of a 'Motley Crew'!
The Teapublicans sure have a 'branding problem'!
PS: LOVE LOVE LOVED the Presidents comments about the moat! He showed again his 'wicked' sense of humor! ;o)
OK, let me get this straight: Evil rich people are conspiring with evil Republicans and evil corporations to "destroy" the middle class. That preposterous theme is a favorite of the dopey leftists around here. But just how do you folks figure that? What's in it for all those evil bastards you people constantly rant against?
Let's imagine a (highly unlikely) world where there were no working people or middle class. In that imaginary world, McDonalds and all their Happy Meals would go the way of the dodo bird. Heck, why would evil rich people want to eat that crap when they could have filet mignon morning, noon and night. Say good-by to Walmart, Kmart and maybe even Target too. Why would evil rich people want any of the Chinese junk they sell there, they'd be shopping at Tiffany's instead. And look for Government Motors to take a big sales hit. Why would rich folks want to buy a Chevy when they could motor around in a Porsche or Ferrari instead?
But with all those companies and countless others falling on hard times because there were no more working class or middle class consumers to buy their products, those evil rich folks who own most of the stock and run those companies might be looking at a future where they wouldn't be quite as rich anymore (although for sure they would continue to be evil incarnate). So screwing the middle class would come back to bite them in the a$$. Because the rich got to be rich by selling things that lots of people want to buy and thereby creating lots of wealth for themselves (as well as a ton of jobs, but that's another story). But if the folks who comprise the market for the products they sell go away, so does the hefty income stream that turned them into rich folks in the first place
So the proposition that evildoers are out to "destroy" the middle class is ludicrous on its face and even the contorted pretzel logic of the left can't make a sensible case for that nonsense. Although there's a ton of idiots around here who will continue to try.
Stop with the lies again. That 69 Billion you keep quoting is for the income tax piece only. If you add in the capital gains and the estate taxes another 89 Billion the total is 150 Billion per year.
You morons keep lying and trying to put words in my mouth. This is what happens when you are part of an impotent party that has nothing to give this country. You keep making up lies and your own facts.
My post (see above) clearly states income, capital gains/dividends and estate taxes. That number is actually low now and it is closer to about 200 Billion per year.
Forgive my butting into this thread, but I had to say that US N D V - R might want to run for the job. The platform seems pretty good. Build America, cut special interests and sharpen the pencil. I still have to wonder why you all continue to compartmentalize politicians into parties and ideals though?
Let me explain, in my neighborhood, two groups of people wanted to corner the market in business, the Greeks, who had a foothold, and the Vietnamese, who recently immigrated. This is America, now. They each had their ideas to make the area theirs, lower prices, lots of speeches, even some less than scrupulous payoffs. It got pretty political after a while, with banners and signs. Sounds like what America stands for huh? It wasn't perfect.
The business was drugs, the vision was to kill whoever they had to to make a living, and Americans died because nobody gave a damn for a long time. The neighborhood almost fell to ruin while people did nothing, but what could they do. Complain to politicians that were busy with bigger fish so they could keep their jobs as politicians? No more money for services. No more this for that. No more time for talk.
The point is we all have to have contact with our elected civil servants or they get the idea they can spend every day buttering up the people that can keep them in office. It is a shame that most Americans have to vote for the lesser of two evils, because the "new" party can be so readily abused by the "established" backers of the big deals. Every "crackpot" that wanted to change business as usual politics was summarily slaughtered by comments of people that know nothing is perfect and go on letting the same "gang" play with a nation. (Nobody ever mentions Perot.)
America needs to be able to be able to reach whoever we vote in. Common man lobbyists, so to speak. If that upsets the old boys, let them leave. There has to be a few bright candles under the bushel baskets of America, the unemployed, willing to be better civil servants and listen to Americans. US N D V made great points to whoever reads these posts, too bad the "party" of the moment is just not getting the message. Left or right wing, they still flap the same. America still suffers so they can keep their jobs. America dies. Use the internet to watch our Supreme Civil Servant and our Senate and House, and get answers to everything they do, not just criticize what they do with no recourse.
John A. and USN retired:
I hate to sound like a back-slappin' good ole boy, but those were some fine posts. May I add two more cents?
I'm not sure that the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions are costing us something on the order of 100-billion-dollars annually. I have never seen a complete breakdown of those costs, but I wonder how much of that amount will continue to be expended even if we leave tomorrow, i.e. military salaries, equipment maintenance, etc.
As far as the defense contracting fraud debacle, there is a monstrous question lurking in there. Where do we go to find military contractors who can deliver the equipment we need? That's not a business for start-ups.
I believe that we are no longer going to see military efforts like we saw in the past. The world is simply too small. Terrorism can and should be handled as a police matter - international to be sure, and the military might actually consider going retro. Aircraft that have been retired - F-4 and A-8 for instance, and old-line tanks are probably more than sufficient to meet the military needs of today. We know they work and the plans are already there. They're relatively inexpensive too. What we most assuredly do not need is equipment so "sophisticated" that it doesn't work under anything but pristine conditions. Going out on a limb here, but battlefields are typically NOT prisitine.
As far as a pullout from Afghanistan and Iraq, I firmly believe there never was a prospect for "victory" there. The invasions were ill-advised and leaving the area might actually send a signal that we are through with these incursions and that we have decided to grow up and stop with our imperialistic misadventures. While the tribal conflicts seem likely to continue, overall I think we might actually see some stability.
"My problem is the wholesale theft of property from one segment of society for the purpose of awarding it to another segment of society."
Isn't that exactly what the Republicans have been doing for decades? Or is it OK when the theft is from the middle class, and the rich are the ones who are awarded? I think Democrats just want the American dream to be possible again, when someone can work hard, support their families and be able to support themselves in retirement.
The Republicans have taken that away from all but the richest Americans. Anyone who agrees with the above statement should be a Democrat.
"Registered DEM in the Sunshine state."
So you say you will vote for whomever wins the GOP primary? You are a DINO then! There is such a dramatic gulf between the approach the two parties will provide for America's future there should be no confusion here. Go join the TP/GOP. We don't need your kind over here.
US Navy....for once we agree on a few things.
One question you asked: why are the same drugs cheaper in other countries than they are here? does have an answer:
Most countries either limit or totally disallow research and development costs to be added into the cost of the drug...Canada is one of these (I believe that most of Europe is the same). In other words, Americans are paying for the all the R&D worldwide. While I don't usually advocate government getting into private business, you are correct in the monopolies that the pharma companies have. There are a couple of ways to defray these costs:
- lower the time and cost to get a drug through FDA approval
- shorten the patent time so that generic equivalents can be released sooner (that's where the monopoly really exists)
- limit advertising or at least the passing of ad costs to the consumer
- limit the punitive damage awards awarded
As a liberal, you are going to hate this, but we need to repeal HCR. The bill alone is accounting for a lot of the increases we are seeing. HCR dramatically increases benefits that must be paid without addressing the added costs of those benefits. HCR does almost nothing to control the cost of care. HCR alone is enough to destroy medicare well before a voucher system could ever be put in place (which I also do not agree with).
Make medicare and social security self-funding and do NOT let any portion of the government "borrow" or divert those funds. If the funds do not meet the exposure, either reduce the exposure or increase the funding, but not through a blanket general tax increase. Make it specific.
Medicaid needs complete revamping. Here in Illinois you can qualify for medicaid with a salary of $40,000....you pay $30 a month and get free doctor visits, $2 prescriptions and a lot of other costly benefits. The only cure is to increase the financial responsibility of those that receive the services. Who else out there gets $2 prescriptions? Who doesn't have to pay at least something to see a doctor? Only medicare and medicaid recipients.
To increase revenues, I would propose reinstituting tariffs on imported goods, and requiring that employers that have foreign payroll to abide by US law. Match the SS and medicare at least.
I agree with getting out of Afganistan and Iraq (and Libya). Add into that closing many overseas military bases, or downsizing them.
Cut the president's (and administrations) "discretionary spending". No more being able to write a check to El Salvador for $20 million to help them fight gangs without congressional approval.
Cut foreign aid. Until this country can afford to take care of it's own, why are we continuing to pay other peoples bills?
Pull back on social spending programs to what is under the authority granted in the constitution. I'm sorry but Planned Parenthood should not be taxpayer funded.
No more bailouts
In other words...stop spending!!!
Gee, Clotho, I don't know. . .
Let me see if I can figure this out-
The BOTTOM 47% pay NO federal income taxes, but, instead, get checks from the rest of us called "refundable tax credits". Since they paid no taxes, these are nothing more than transfer payments from those who earn more to those whom earn less.
Meanwhile, the 53% of suckers who PAY all the taxes are expected to feel guilty- if not evil- because they pull, not just their own weight, but all of those others.
So, tell me, oh wise sage, how on earth does this become "transferring wealth from the middle class to the wealthy"? Cause, I just do not see it.
You get a job. You earn a wage. The government extracts taxes from that wage- and, unless you are one of the 47%, gives some of your wage to others.
That is how the system works in THIS country. I guess in Obamaland, things are different.
None more flawed than the man currently in the WH...
Feisty, the fact that Republicans believe this is a "branding problem" highlights the root of the issue. Conservatism isn't a movement of ideals as they represent themselves. If they were the GOPTP actions wouldn't so frequently be at odds with what they proclaim to believe. Conservatism is in reality a giant PR campaign to hide their war on the middle class.
OK, Alan, let's keep going.
It is typical of governments to borrow to "cover the cost of living," as you phrased it, for two reasons:
1. Current expenditures outstrip current receipts, periodically That kind of borrowing is essentailly "bridge loan" money, short-term, with short-term maturation periods covered when receipts exceed expenditures. Same stuff any businessman would recognize as a line of credit for operating capital. We usually do that with T-bills, but there are a number of instruments available.
I don't see any means of eliminating this type of borrowing and its attendant cost of short-term interest - as long as the country's perceived credit-wrothiness is sound, rates will be low. (This is a concrete example of why the debt ceiling increase is so important.)
2. Longer-term borrowing as necessary for either capital investment - bridges, major transportation projects, etc. - or because other government expenses present demands in excess of revenues. It is the latter you raised.
But consider what kinds of expenses those usually are:
A. Wars: Historically (and I mean going back to the 1690's), nation-states that used a banking system to capitalize the costs of wars usually ended up winning. This is profoundly illustrated in Kennedy's book in Chapter 3. To paraphrase him, "The victors were those who had one more dollar left at the end."
Since this kind of debt is so large, it is sometimes treated separately from other government expenditures. Great Britain, Kennedy explained in that chapter, set up a special "Sinking Fund" after the American Revolution to handle the massive cost of that war, which was made worse by the loss of the colonies and other territories because those had provided vital revenues and trade proceeds. Long-term budgeting to establish a special fund for retirement of such debt even now is not a bad idea.
B. Major capital investment: While most consider such investment to be public infrastructure, it can also be a national investment in supporting business growth or development, as the President undertook in the past two years; it can be a national investment in advanced education or research intended to strengthen the labor market and fulfill the needs of business or medical science or other related objectives.
Again, the President has quite correctly identified a wide spectrum of such needs. And he has undertaken efforts to address them, especially in ways that also contribute to the recovery of the economy and an increase in American-made products with international markets, or domestic consumers presently satisfying their demands with imported goods.
This kind of investment is usually financed with bond revenues, at maturation rates ranging from a few years to 25 or more years. "Hard" investments, meaning buildings, bridges, railroads, etc., are often financed with directly-linked bond issues - the buyers know precisely for what their money is to be spent. Some of these projects, although not all, may be revenue-producing, when completed, or have various taxes, fees or assessments associated with them, from which some or all of the bond payments are made.
Such projects then are essentially "self-liquidating," although a liability exists until the bonds are retired because if the income falls short, then the public entity guaranteeing them must step up. Still, in the case of this type of debt, I would argue that it be excluded from the debate over debt and expenditures because it also has relatively little effect on actual demand on the Treasury. There is minimal taxpaayer impact but significant public benefit.
"Soft" investments such as education or research, may be financed through general revenue bonds or other instruments that are backed by taxpayer funds and any other non-obligated Federal income. The objective of these commitments is - or at least could be argued to be - a form of "national defense" because the country as a whole is committed to ensuring America is meeting the future needs of its economy, its population, and all other aspects of national life affected by these investments.
If some of these investments are focused on immediate concerns, as for example the Small Business Investment program the President succeeded in passing last year, then they are certainly aimed at protecting our economic recovery and sustaining it in a national emergency.
This type of debt may be necessary to continue to meet both immediate and long-term goals. If so, then in your approach it is impossible to do. As a matter of public policy, before targeting all such programs of this kind for either elimination or very deep cuts, each should be individually debated and open decisions reached about them. But also, some means of paying off this debt needs to be specified if it is to be sustained - again, reached by open debate.
I prefer some targeted increases in revenue, as well as a "reserve fund" of some certain per cent built up from rising Federal recipts that attend the growth of the economy and continued economic recovery. That provides both "current receipts" contributions to debt service and retirement, as well as acknowledgement that as things improve in the future, the money generated has already been spoken for - and won't be available for any other purposes or to encourage new spending programs.
C. "Cost of living" borrowing: Your term in this sense means keeping up with anything else like other long-term debt service, social safety net costs, expenses of any government operations, military expenditures apart from war financing, salaries for solons, paying for Veterans' Hospitals, and sometimes having a party such as the Cowboy Poetry Festival. Aside from the Department of Defense Budget, this "discretionary" spending, according to the President, amounts to 12% of the national budget.
In addition, debt service payments are part of the "cost of living." Borrowing to pay the interest charges is something like making one credit card payment with a different credit card - this is, absolutely unsustainable unless there is a clear understanding of just why and how such borrowing is made, it serves a vital public interest, and there is a clear program to bring it to an end within a foreseeable period of time.
It is essential that the public understand that borrowing to pay interest payments or retire geenral revnue bonds is actually the impact of Medicare and Social Security on the national deficit and national debt. Sixty per cent of the national debt is owed to the Social Security and Medicare trust funds - the country is not paying for Social Security or Medicare benefits, the people who are eligible for the benefits paid for them ahead of time. It is a gross inaccuracy that distorts the debate to call these programs "entitlements" - beneficiaries paid up front.
It was this borrowing, from the late 1960's forward, that has truly been a problem. To default on the debt owed to the American people - taken from the Social Security and Medicare trust funds - by either "privatizing" these programs or essentially chopping them to small bits - is a massive betrayal of trust. This is a debt that the nation must face squarely and accept as an obligation of honor.
Most of the spending cuts thus far proposed avoid the 800-pound gorilla in the room by instead taking out on America's no. 1 debtor - the American people - and then blaming the victim for the problem. But the gorilla is that painful, tedious and necessary attention to spending cuts, program by program, over time, are only half the problem. The other half is revenues. There is absolutely no way to address cumulative deficits and mounting debt without increasing revenues.
Overall, I believe that a planned program to both increase revenues from targeted tax increases and boost Federal receipts by supporting further economic recovery and if necessary restoring new Deal type programs like the Works Progress Administration to sharly decrease unemployment is necessary. Judicious government cuts may have to be made alongside commitments that for another two to four years may continue some deficit spending - but more effort to address debt retirement through dedication of some added revenues must be a part of the package.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, if it wasn't for the media being controlled by the dems. they would point out how much this current administration lies and breaks the laws but instead covers up and shines the turd. Wake up! the one good act of killing bin laden does not make up for the all the bad obama and his group have done.
Earnest Lee Saddened - Your sentiments are gathering companions every day as more and more people eschew party affiliations and reregister as Independents (or, Decline to State).
You might be extremely interested in two books on the topic. The most recent (a 2000 edition) is The Good Citizen: A History of American Civic Life, by Michael Schudson. One that is pretty hoary now, has a long grey beard but is still highly relevant, is Indispensible enemies: The Politics of Misrule in America, by Walter Karp.
I remain a loyal and committed Democrat who nonetheless demands better performance and more thoughtful regard for the issues of the day. I suspect you will not only find the two books just mentioned good reading, but grist for future posts on these subjects. Thanks for chipping in!
Bill Fairfax,
Are you serious? Do you really believe that? I used to like reading your opinions but that was just a really dumb comment with 3rd grade justifications. You're nuckin futs lately.
Ed
I disagree. These programs were never fully funded from revenues. It is similar to public service pensions where the costs were simply transferred to future taxpayers. I have yet to hear a financial model where a cop or firefighter can work for 20 - 25 years and then retire for 20 years. In the case of social security retirement kicked in at 65 when the expected lifespan was 62. Now the expected lifespan is 74 but we've only increased the retirement age to 66, soon to be 67. We cannot just tax and borrow to sustain this system. In the case of medicare, and I'll admit that only heard these figures on an MSNBC show, recipients are paying in 150k over their working lifetime and receiving 450k. Again, if true, this cannot be made up by taxes and borrowing.
You can argue all you want about the "rich" not paying their share, or we have to raise the debt ceiling but at the end of the day both these programs have to reformed drastically or they will survive in any form. I keep saying this is not a left or right issue, that is the form of the reforms, but its a demographic issue.
No joe
The campaign will not be about deficits and debt. Just look at the numbers -
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year2011_0.html
http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/yearrev2011_0.html
The government is spending $1,171.5 trillion just on defense and debt interest. The government receives $1,154.4 from income taxes and corporate taxes. Arguments about deficit and debt highlight that the government needs more revenue and needs to cut defense. Look at the numbers. Do you think the Republicans are going to seriously raise that issue?
The Republicans typically run on security and national defense. Is the Republican party seriously considering becoming a 'peace' party? Do you think any Republican candidate is going to challenge Barrack Hussein Obama on national defense issues?
Nope, the Republican campaign will be about health care, entitlements, and the state of the economy wrapped up in 'size of government'. President Obama should be attempting to direct that debate to how the government affects the health of the middle class. If the President succeeds in directing the narrative to the middle class then the candidates will have to run on their records. Admittedly that is risky for the President but he has repeatedly shown that risks are something he embraces.
I agree with the idea that tax hikes should not be left off of the table. They will be needed to get the deficit under control and paid off........BUT the increase should go towards that and not support government spending which is out of control. It is a mistake for the republicans to say that they will not negotiate tax increases BUT i must point out to all you lefties out there that if you will remember back when this health care law was passed your beloved democrats were not about negotiating, they crammed this law down the countries throat. And I might ad that you can spin the "benefits" of this health care law anyway you want but the fact will be that it will add to government spending. Neither party is looking out for our best interest only their own.
Alan, I only have a few minutes now for an answer, have got some dealine work to finish. You wrote:
First of all, I didn't make ANY argument about the "rich" in that post. Instead, I stuck as closely as possible to factual discussion, and I suspect that you found most of it effective.
It IS absolutely clear that revenues must be increased in combination with judicious spending cuts. There are many avenues for increasing revenue - Navy in post #1 started a bit of a chat about that - worthy of consideration that do not threaten economic recovery or job creation. I can state that we have learned, the hard way, that Milton Friedman's "trickle down theory of economics" is utter bunkum.
As for Medicaid, to date this year I've paid $305 out of my paycheck on my contributions. by year's end, the amount will be over $1200. I've done so - at varying amounts, of course - since 1965. That represents the equivalent of a medical annuity. The trust funds were somewhat forcibly required to be lent at interest, which should be applicable now to the value of "my" annuity.
The major reforms that will benefit Medicare have yet to occur - they consist of addressing health care costs. Mainly, they consist of dumping the Reagan-era reimbursement "reforms" that substantially underly the skyrocketing costs of medical services. You can find my articles and comments in detail on this by checking my column page, just click on my screen name.
There's a LOT more to be said about "reforms" of these two programs that regrettably I haven't time to write now. But basically, the country owes a DEBT to them that cannot be repudiated. As for future levels of retirement age and other matters, that's really a separate discussion.
Well Bill from fairfax maybe you are right maybe they are not evil just incredibly stupid. Give them your speech,not us, we get it, they don't seem to get it. We just didn't think anybody was that stupid, it seems evil to be that stupid.
What he has shown is classless arrogance and true disdain for the concerns of Americans. There is no need for "comprehensive immigration reform". There is an immigration policy already in place that has worked in the past. The problem is the feds don't enforce it. The Panderer-in-Chief is doing just that.....pandering.
Amused BND:
I define the stimulus as a failure because it was another giant Government Slush Fund!
These funds are the least effective, least efficient, least modifiable, least bang-for-the-buck ways of solving almost every problem and with heavy political patronage. Try sending a $2500.00 check to every man, woman, and child in America and then watch the explosive stimulus to the economy! But that would not directly buy votes, nor directly empower any short-sighted, quick-fix, bigger government-is-the-answer politician on either side of the aisle.
My bad Ed, next time I'll dumb it down so even you can understand it.
Actually, OBOLARO, this was tried by President Bush, where he sent $700 to everyone. What actually happened is that people SAVED that money; they did NOT spend it. The Stimulus as it was disbursed was actually more effective in 'stimulating' the economy because the money went directly into projects that needed to be funded that created jobs.
There has been a lot of talk about how 'ineffective' the stimulus was when it was introduced. Let's look at things a little differently.
1. When the banks were rescued using TARP ($700 BILLION), the banks STOPPED lending money, which in turn reduced the amount of money in the economy. I am taking a guess here, but I would say that $1 - 5 TRILLION was removed from the American economy.
2. What the stimulus did was infuse much needed capital into the economy in a way where that capital would be used for purchases. That infusion added approximately 400 BILLION to the economy, which replaced SOME of what the banks removed by NOT lending.
3. The third thing that was added was Unemployment benefits, that infused approximately $1 TRILLION into the economy, that was directly used to purchase goods and services, again replacing SOME of the monies that the banks removed from the economy by not lending.
The banks have no incentive to lend money because they are making MORE money on speculation and derivatives trading, thanks to the Gramm-Billey Act. When there is legislation that limits the banks to do what they are tasked to do - lend money - we will not see any robust growth in this economy.
To the anti-trickle down folks.
It works in manufacturing. It doesn't work in the service industry. It is working in manufacturing countries where we exported our manufacturing jobs. It works in the manufacturing company I work for. When Reagan proposed the idea in the 80's, the US hadn't started exporting jobs through Free Trade Agreements.
So Doug, please do tell about the imigration policy in the past that worked. if it worked, as you claim, how on earth did we end up with all these illegals?
No Jo, no Bo, NJ
I like your style and I admire your intelligence: Your comments are right on target. Somehow I do wish the retire navy veteran would stopped his long-winded, biased comments; which are frankly b-o-r-i-n-g.
No need to dumb it down Bill. Your first post was about as dumb as it gets. It proves you have no concept of economic reality in this country.
no joe, no bo – Seriously? Government has no role beyond defense? That’s the version of free market philosophy that the Teabaggers pervert, which is further extolled by corporatists to amass power and privilege. And perhaps the reason “Atlas Shrugged” has done so poorly at the box office—After all, how much Ayn Rand narcissism can a person take? May Keynesian economics prevail! Just as Cuba is becoming a hybrid that includes capitalism, we are a capitalist hybrid that includes social safety nets. The extremes do NOT work!
But even if you and others remain entrenched in old, failed supply-side voodoo economics, what of the hypocrisy of your position? Republican Big Government Must Go!
Not only has the GOP/TP been busy trying to "jam through" their union-busting legislation in Wisconsin, Ohio, etc., in Wisconsin Republicans are trying to make it harder to vote--before recall elections of course.
The Medicare-destroying legislation (Ryan's plan), which is the worst of all, begs this question -- I keep hearing how we can't pass a debt burden on to our children and grandchildren, but no problem throwing the Baby Boomers under the bus.
Like what future do folks in their 40s and 50s have?! They've lost their jobs and no one will hire them now, they've lost their homes and 401ks for retirement, but screw them! These middle-age Americans don't pull at our heart strings like babies--heck throw in some puppies while you're at it you friggin' Republicans!
And now, the GOP/TP is up to more of their machinations throughout the nation:
> Trying to force women to get ultrasounds (at the woman's own expense) before getting an abortion, and forcing doctors to read a government-issued statement to these women. In some states like South Dakota, they want to force these women to go through waiting periods during which they must go to anti-abortion offices where they will be berated by anti-abortion activists. Talk about a new torture program--water boarding would look good in comparison.
Yes, women will have to endure FAR MORE restrictions and scrutiny than required of Jared Loughner to obtain a magazine clip before his assassination attempt on Gabby Giffords. Heaven forbid we restrict semi-automatic weapons or armor-piercing bullets, but by all means let's legislate morality and force religious beliefs upon other citizens...
Even (get this) if it costs more tax dollars!
> And now, in states like Florida, the GOP/TP want to force ALL government employees to take drug-screening test, as well as anyone collecting welfare assistance. The tax payers will pick up the tab for those who pass the test, and the poor people who ate poppy seeds will have to scrape the money together for their test expense.
> In other states, unemployment benefits are being cut in order to give more tax breaks to corporations -- Not to pay down deficits, but to give more money to companies! You thought the Republicans blocking the stand-alone bill to end tax subsidies for Big Oil was bad, they're doing this coast-to-coast!
This is not just Big Government, people, it is fascism! Fellow Americans, I beg you to get out and demonstrate against these Republicans like the protests in Wisconsin. Get out there in Florida, South Dakota, and where ever the GOP/TP is running amok.
Then throw the GOP/TP radicals out of office in recall elections this summer, and in 2012! It's the Terri Schiavo intervention all over again, times 10. Republicans never learn, but let's hope the voters do.
LOL! Nazism - "The body of political and economic doctrines held and put into effect by the Nazis in Germany from 1933 to 1945 including the totalitarian principle of government, predominance of especially Germanic groups assumed to be racially superior, and supremacy of the führer." -- Sounds like Teabaggers to me.
In the meantime, I'll bet Republicans will give the most money to companies who hire the least amount of unemployed workers. That will be their economic stimulus and job creation plan.
Hope & Change: A safety net? I don't think so. However, notwithstanding your post, what the point of my post is illustrating is that by the banks NOT infusing money into the economy by lending (which they couldn't do because they needed TARP to stay afloat), the economy CONTRACTED. I estimate that contraction to be about $5 TRILLION (and yes, this is a guess).
With The Stimulus and Unemployment benefits, that pumped money INTO the economy to keep it going, although it was not enough (1/3rd of the Stimulus were tax cuts). This is why, I believe, that the recovery is so sluggish. With the banks calling in all of their loans (notice how many mortgages have been foreclosed on?) and them NOT pumping money into the economy, we are seeing the results today.
So, in effect, the stimulus negated PART of the contraction of money in the economy.
That was the point of my post.
No Jo
1......The rich is very dependent on the foolish middle class to fight their battles for them. All you have to do is mention the top 2% and these people come out fighting like they are being subsidized by them and therefore have to defend them no matter what. Speaking to some of these people, they don't care, they don't mind paying more. The republicans are just doing what they have to do thinking that will keep the rich in their pockets.
2.......We keep bringing up the fact that 47% of us pay no taxes. That is no income taxes. Isn't it sad to say how many of our fellow country men earn below the poverty level? We like to mention that they pay no taxes, but we will not say why. We also forget that "the rich don't pay taxes" because they have so many loopholes. What they don't have, they create.
No one envies or want to take anything from the rich. But at the same time, republicans wants to take from the poor so they can give breaks to the rich. Trickle down economics never works. The rich who are complaining or appreciate the breaks, are not necessarily the ones who create jobs. They are just the ones who use other peoples money to create their wealth. The real job creators need the middle class in order keep their wealth. If the poor and middle class don't spend, the rich don't make money.
For those of you who are so quick to jump in defense of the rich and are so quick to put down the poor and middle class. I am sure you wont need medicare, medicaid or social security. I am also certain that your parents don't need these services either. But you should think about others than yourself. There are people who need and depend on these services.
The republican plan ....
Tell the elderly that they will get vouchers to buy insurance and when they run out (max 2 years) even after paying copay's and deductibles, they are SOL. They no longer need care, they should just die.
Cut everything that benefits women, including redefining rape.
Cut everything that benefits the poor. Including subsidies for heat during the winter. Let them freeze. They are going to die anyway.
Cut food stamps for poor kids. They don't need to eat. We just want to make sure they make it from fetus to child. If they die after that, so be it.
Cut back on unemployment benefits. Since these lazy people who got themselves fired, don't need help to go job hunting. Who cares if their employer paid into this insurance. The employer giveth, the government taketh away.
BECAUSE THE RICH NEEDS HELP. THEY SHOULD NOT PAY TAXES. HE!! THEY GIVE TO CHARITIES AND SOUP KITCHENS TO GET THEIR TAX BREAKS. WHY SHOULD THEY PAY ANYTHING. THEY HAVE THE MONEY, SO WHY SHOULDN'T THE POOR GIVE THEM MORE.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
With regards to your idea of buying drugs from Canada. Well the drugs that are sold in Canada are the same drugs that are sold in the US. The reason why they are cheaper is because each of the provinces estimates the need for a specific drug over a given year, and then negotiates a unit price based on that estimate. This estimate is under the assumption that these drugs will not be exported.
Now exporting a small percentage of that drug doesn't really cause a major problem, wholesale exports will basically deprive the people of Canada access to those drugs. This is particularly acute when the needs estimate is based on an overall national population that is 1/10th that of the United States.
The various provincial governments in Canada have not as of this time implemented barriers to export, but several have stated that if the export of prescription medications were to start causing a shortage of drugs domestically, that laws will be set up to ban the export of prescription drugs. This would be done to protect the supply of prescription medication to its citizens/residents, but also to protect the price negotiation process that has been set up.
Hey Feisty!
Do you think that Newt has worked out that by entering the race in May, 2011 he has sort of pledged himself to monogamy for nineteen long months?
That's going to be a really high bar for him ORB, hope he makes it!
@Navy,
You show such a passion for politics Navy, and can elaborate on a position that you feel so strongly about. Since you have such strong opinions, are you considering running for a Federal or State position?
It would be interesting in seeing your personal information published as well as your service record.
Interesting that you lump President Obama in as "flawed" based on his pre-election perception problems . . . you leave out the obvious fact that the President has addressed many of these issues by the stellar way he has handled the many problems he has faced in his first HALF of a term . . . the President has a record to run on these days, and its a damn good one.
In terms of the field of potential Republican candidates, I would hope that instead of judging them solely on their personas, we could also have some media analysis of what it is they propose to DO as President, and if these proposals have any MERIT and/or are they based on REALITY or ideolgy.
That would be refreshing.
P.S. For all the poll freaks . . . how's about this?
P.S.S. For all you "Bush should get credit for the elimination of Bin Laden" folks, this is for you:
Nash:
Another great post. The GOP/TP roundup is starting to look like recycled failures and morally corrupt politicians trying to make themselves relevant. I think the American people are getting smarter than that. Newt is dead in the water as is Trump. They are going nowhere. But hey do provide entertainment.
Did you mention a 60% approval rating Nash?
Uh OH - that's not going to sit well with certain Obama haters around here! lol
Better put on the hazmat suit - it's going to get messy!
Nash, I also saw the news on that new poll. It was a very interesting sign.
I think we would be wise to attend to the variations in categories of approval/disapproval - both in terms of issues, as well as in terms of audiences. A little time devoted to more study of the recent polls' numbers in this way, related to the different candidates, tells us that our President is generally doing well, but that some of his initiatives must manage to get past the GOP roadblocks this year to produce more results.
We know there is a 22% - 30% fixed group of people who just will NEVER support not merely President Obama, but ANY Democrat. About 35% of the population is Independent, and those numbers are growing with reaction of many centrist former Republican voters to the effect the Tea Party has had on the country.
Some have posted on these boards in the recent week or two, commenting that at the moment they're undure if the'd vote for some Democrats, but CERTAIN that now they are not giving the GOP their votes. The task of the next year's time is to do as much as possible to reassure those disenchanted voters and give them reason, indeed, to turn out in 2012 for President Obama.
From the looks of the GOP primary field, the Republicans may do that all by themselves by pandering to an extremist minority on the reight.
@Nashville -- Let's say that you are correct that from his first HALF of his term the president has a damn fine record to run on. But that was when his party controlled both houses of Congress. Now he doesn't have that advantage and I don't think mathematically the House will drop out of Republican control in 2012. In fact there is a good chance, the Republicans can take control of the Senate. So what does the next six years -- realistically -- look for the record of this president? Do you think he can scare and/or shame the Republicans into doing what he wishes? Do you think he can maintain his progressive views and reach across the aisle? Do you think name calling will do the trick? Do you think continuing to blame President George Bush will sway the Congress?
So, if he wins what really do you win???? It's just too bad a democrat that can be a uniter and not a divider won't step up and challenge the incumbent.
@Fiesty -- that's an AP poll. Not as accurate as Rasmussen and/or Quinnipiac.
So the President (with no cooperation from the Republicans) takes on a terrible recession and stops it from becoming a Depression, saves the auto industry, oversees the TARP program so that it will actually make money and gets the economy moving again and he is flawed?! And these are just the things he's done on the economy---not getting into other accomplishments.
Did you type that with a straight face? Surely your joking?
This coming from the guy who doesn't believe PolitiFact is credible!
Go sit down...
"And the winner in 2008 (Barack Obama) triumphed despite questions about his experience and his worldview".
Not to mention those other trivial little things like where he was born and whether or not he was a Muslim and that vitally critical question about.....flag pins.
Apparently Newt Gingrich thinks that still only having the support of 5% of even your own party after months and months of "unofficially" running for President makes you a "conquering hero". Great, now I'm going to have that song stuck in my head all day - "See The Conquering Hero Comes". It's from an oratorio composed by Handel in 1740-something, called "Judas Maccabeus".
I'm not really sure how that's relevant to the discussion today. But then, I'm still not sure why Newt Gingrich is still considered relevant to the discussion today either.
But I'm sure he'll at least never leave the house without his flag pin on.....
@Steeler -- the story was that "candidate" obama was flawed before being elected president. Pretty easy read if you want to.
Feisty:
You know I never step into the alternate reality that is First Read without my hazmat suit and popcorn! :o)
Ben:
I appreciate the first HALF of your response . . . lol . . . but sadly it quickly devolved into right wing fairy tale talk . . . and you were so close! :o)
In terms of what will "I" win? Well, Ben, I'm not looking to "win", I am looking to solve America's problems with reality based solutions, not Republican spin that has proven to be nothing more than a cover for "we don't want to pay no taxes", "we don't want to follow no rules", and "we don't give a crap about the less fortunate, because if they were as smart and wonderful as us, they wouldn't be having these problems".
Whatever Ben . . . you keep smokin' whatever it is that allows you to ignore the fact that everything the Republican Party told us for the past 10 years had turned out to be complete, unvarnished bunk.
-Deficits don't matter
-We will be greeted as liberators
-Bin Laden doesn't matter
-Lowering taxes will create jobs
-Deregulation will create jobs
-Privitizing everything will create jobs
-Saddam Hussein has weopons of mass destruction
-Poor people forced the sweet bankers to give them bad loans
-President Obama ran up the deficit *winky wink*
-Sarah Palin is qualifed to be Vice President
Yeah Ben . . . you gots nothing.
Nicely said, Nashville. President Obama keeps working behind the scenes to get things done and does them exceptionally well while the media paints a "flawed" picture in the hopes of creating a controversy where there is none. Whether the media realizes it or not, they hold this President to a different standard than any before him.
The Sunday talk shows no longer provide real questioning of a guest's policies--the hosts often make a half-hearted effort to challenge then moves on allowing the talking points, the half truths and untruths to stand.
@Fiesty -- I know you know that Quinnipiac has been cited by the Washington Post, NY Times, Reuters, etc. for being one of the most accurate independent polls in the country. It's an easy look-up for you. You also know that Rasmussen was the closest -- almost dead on -- in predicting the 2008 election. Also, I don't believe I ever commented on Politifact.
@Nash
Lowering taxes will didn't create jobs but raising them will
Deregulation didn't create jobs but further regulation will
Privatizing everything didn't create jobs but nationalizing everything will
Hmmmm...let think about this
@Nashville -- Again all of that means nothing as to how obama will work with a Republican controlled Congress. The name calling and/or personal attacks as to a person's beliefs mean nothing as well. How will the U.S. benefit if the president and Congress can not and/ or will not work together? That's all I was pointing out.
Alan:
You know I love you, but your really twist yourself into knots sometimes trying to defend the indefensible.
P.S. I don't know if raising taxes will create jobs, but I know that it will give our country some much needed revenue to address the deficit that Republicans pretend to care about when they don't want to do something and ignore when they want to keep their unfunded tax cut.
I don't know if regulation will create jobs, but it will keep Wall Street from bilking us by setting us up to fail and profitting from it, it will keep the oil speculators for raising the price of gas for no reason, and it will keep greedy coal mine and oil rig opertors from ignoring safety for a buck, all while destroying our common oceans and land.
I don't know if "nationalizing" everything will create jobs, but it will keep companies from denying me health care that I have paid for in order to make a buck for themselves. It will keep prison companies from sponsoring "immigration" laws that allow them to incarcerate more folks for a profit.
So yeah, nice try, but no deal.
Nashville_fan
".....Interesting that you lump President Obama in as "flawed" based on his pre-election perception problems . . . you leave out the obvious fact that the President has addressed many of these issues by the stellar way he has handled the many problems he has faced in his first HALF of a term . . . the President has a record to run on these days, and its a damn good one. ....."
Ahhhhh, hmmmm.
I wouldn't say Obama's record is a "damn good one." It's more like a "decent" record, and what makes it so more than anything else is the killing of Osama Bin Laden.
Economically, Obama hasn't cured the recession. Unemployment is too high, long term interest rates are too, and he absolutely MUST do something about gas prices. That last thing is absolutely killing the economy more than anything else.
Now, I really don't see a GOP challenger who could come out and beat Obama right now.
But, please don't forget that George H.W. Bush won a war in 1991, and got beat by an upstart Governor from Arkansas whom nobody had ever heard of before, in the 1992 Presidential election.....on the basis of a poor economy.
So, I wouldn't be so "cocky" if I were you about Obama's chances in 2012. He / they look "pretty decent."
But, his reelection is certainly not a "slam dunk." There just may be a Republican "Bill Clinton type" who hasn't annouced yet.
We'll see.
Ben,
The real question is why do you continue to support a party that puts the needs of "corporate people" ahead of human people and has the stated goal of seeing our President fail?
If you acknowledge that a Republican Congress is nothing but an obstructionist tool for those who are profitting from the status quo, why are you still on board?
President Obama has gone above and beyond to work with these folks, and any one who doesn't have on "red-state" glasses will have to acknowledge that.
P.S. Also too, why do you continue to support a Party that has proven time and again that they have no idea what they are talking about . . . what exactly is your support based on?
Here - let me refresh your memory:
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Like I said go sit down...
Nice to see you again J. Merle . . . not only am I not "cocky" about the President being re-elected, I really will be fine if he isn't. What you call a "decent" half term has actually been not only good, but historic. If folks can't appreciate it, that's A-OK with me.
I mean, we are dealing with a country that will basically believe anything if you repeat it enough, so I am well aware that come election time, whatever candidate the GOP decides to rally around will have enough financial backing from the "corporate people" to have the American people believing whatever "narrative" they decide to peddle.
I'm already over it. What so many folks fail to realize is that President Obama CAN'T lose, he has already won, it is the rest of us who are being played for a fool. So if folks really believe that THIS TIME, the GOP will make good on the pipe dreams they are peddling, that is more than fine with me.
As a wise man once said, "Bring it on."
Ben---check out the last sentence of the first paragraph "Flawed Field":
"On the Democratic side, meanwhile, you have an incumbent president overseeing an economy where the current unemployment rate is 9.0%."
@Fiesty -- Sorry, I couldn't recall the connection, but I do now and still stand by my opinion. They check the facts from a left-leaning point of view -- not independent. Instead of telling people to sit down, why don't you try to respond to the real meaning of a post and not an insignificant mistake?
@Nashville -- I'll answer your questions just to see if you will actually address mine which bring to the point the real congressional/political world that exists. You go to extremes and conjectures I disagree with such as "my party" stated it wants the president to fail. Who said that may be a member of the Republican Party but does not embody the entire party. Extremists make extreme statements on both sides of the aisle. I do not believe in most of the president's nor the democratic platform and I will be against most of it. I view how government should run differently than you. You can't belittle me into thinking otherwise because I don't buy into your premises -- and that argument will not accomplish anything.
So, how will the president work with a Republican-controlled House and/or Senate? What will get accomplished?
@Nash
Right back at you!!
BTW I've actually come around to say that we do not need to raise tax rates. I now think we should implement the Ryan tax reforms but keep the rates around 35/25/15. To take the example of the President's taxes they would increase from around 27% to 35% in actual money paid because there would be no deductions. Also, the rates that people pay would actually be very transparent.
@Steeler -- good point and therefore that is a major flaw along with a 37% approval rating on the economy. It's a story on flaws not accomplishments.
Ben,
I have not belittled you in any way. Also, I don't think that an entire political party can sit idly while certain of its members makes wild accusations and statements, and then pretend that their silence is not tacit consent.
In terms of how will President Obama work with a Republican Congress, I figure that if he can work with Pakistan after the whole Bin Laden debacle, he should be able to work with his "fellow Americans" as well, no?
The question is will the Republican Congress propose any reality based solutions for the country, or will they continue to promote a failed ideology that only benefits them and their corporate backers.
Time will tell.
At this point I would have to say that ANY politician who is not working for the betterment of ALL Americans is more than just flawed, they verge on the edge of being pure evil. The present Repub/TPer stance of cutting the safety net for those who have been impoverished by the way the money has flowed up to the richest, and stayed there, and then giving greater tax breaks or refusing to raise taxes on those same ultra rich, is NOT in the best interest of America or most Americans. Cutting spending by the Federal Government at a time when that is all that is keeping some 20% of Americans from starving or losing their homes, cars, livelihoods, and Not increasing taxes on those who could and should be producing jobs here in the US is just plain crass and insensitive to the needs of the common American. America is not served by making the richer fabulously more wealthy and making life harder on those who have no means to advance their life situations.
The best ways to cut the debt and get America back on an even footing is to first get us out of the wars as far as combat goes: Give them assistance in building their own Nations, but no more of this building it for them and making all of the assistance money go back to American companies, let them build their nation as THEY want it, not as our own, corrupt American Corporations want it.
Next, remove over 75% of the bases that we have in foreign nations, we have no need to be the World Police, which is just an euphemism for being a Colonial King Maker to ease the way for our own corporations over the needs of the people of those other nations.
Third, take Defense spending back to the year 2000 levels, for a start: Our adventurism in foreign nations on the behest of the Corporations (who do NOT pay for the work done yet profit mightily) is a great part of what has, historically, caused many uprisings and even the whole terrorism thing. People saw their nations being raped and plundered by the American and European Corporations and since their governments were either installed by those western powers or heavily bribed and controlled, they decided to strike out on their own against the "Western Demons".....the very same ones that have caused so much trouble here at home: Banks, Oil Corporations, Mining Concerns and Corporations who saw that they could get away with paying a pittance to these people because of the economic disparities that these entities had engineered themselves.
Fourth, INCREASE spending on such things as rebuilding the infrastructure and job creation. This will directly increase income due to getting people back to work, off unemployment and foodstamps and ABLE to pay taxes. If the Already-Too-Obscenely-Wealthy-To-Fail Club wants to carry less of the needed tax burden, then they need to be hiring, at REAL Living Wages, so that the rest of us are ABLE to pay taxes. When the Rich and Corporate crowd are sitting on OVER $2 TRILLON in CASH, reaping massive, record profits and giving their management HUGE bonuses and still not hiring then they do not Deserve the tax breaks, deductions and low tax rates that allow them to continue reaping such wealth. Money is supposed to flow through the economy, yet today it is ever more concentrated at the top where it is put into financial instruments and traded amongst a tiny circle of individuals and companies where it stops being an actual part of the economy. A modest tax of only 5% on just the Stock Market trades would gain the Govt some $24 Trillion per year, if we added the derivatives market that would add another $20-$30 Trillion per year EASILY, yet these things are not even on the table: WHY NOT??
Fifth, remove ALL of the tax deductions for people and corporations making over $300 K/year and ALL tax deductions on Corporations and CLOSE ALL the tax credits and loopholes that allow the multi-national corporations to hide their income offshore with their shell-game tactics. On top of this, Disallow ANY company that moves jobs overseas or out-sourcing, and reduces their work force here in the US (or has done so in the past 15 years) from doing ANY business here in the US, PERIOD. Note: I am all for other nations building up their own economies, I am, however, totally against OUR companies and corporations killing our own economy, and building foreign economies, in the race to pay lower wages in other nations purely out of greed.
It all seems to come down to money and greed, and we MUST start paying attention to WHO is profiting from the policies that our lawmakers are pushing for: Do they Build America, so that ALL of us profit, or do they harm America by catering to those who have too big of a slice of the pie already and continue to grab more and more of it and refusing to share. In this matter our President and the Democrats have been trying to work for America, for ALL of us, while the Repub/TPers are working in lockstep solely for those who have done and are doing the most harm to America as it is and have worked to block ANYTHING that would help this Nation as a whole.
It is actually very simple: Good Builds America up and makes sure that ALL Americans profit, Evil Destroys the American Dream and at this point, with money and greed being the root of all evil, the Already-Too-Wealthy-To-Fail Club and their Repub/TPer sycophants who are working so hard to HURT normal Americans are not working for the Good of America and Americans, they are just lining their own pockets and thus are working for what I would have to call Evil.
I hope you don't mean by extensive use of Seal Team 6?
5% on stock trades? Any idea how pension funds would be decimated if you took $24T out of the stock market each year? How long do you think the NYSE would last in competition with London, Hong Kong, Frankfurt etc..? Why would any company trade shares on a market that takes 5% (or is it 10% as each trade has two sides) of every transaction. The expression killing goose comes to mind.
Best of luck to you Ben - you're going to need it! ;o)
You may now resume sticking your fingers back in our ears and chanting - lalalallalalla
Alan:
I am definitely not proposing that we send in the SEALS to deal with Congress . . . at least not yet! :o)
In terms of your idea about tax reform, that is a promising idea, although I am a little cynical that our current political process can sustain any endeavor that does not involve making somebody in the private sector some money . . . the whole "public good" concept doesn't mean much in a Congress where the Supreme Court has decided that unnamed donors can ride into any district and run lie filled ads to their hearts content.
What motivates our Congress is happy financial backers and insuring that they don't lose their sweet gigs sitting in Congress doing nothing.
I have an idea to save some money - limit Congressional staffs . . . we already have 600+ Congress critters doing nothing, we don't really need a secretary to type the nothing up, do we?
Nashville.....I'm not really sure what the point of your last post was / is.
Obama is our nation's first black president, and that in and of itself is historic. Also, he got Bin Laden, and is deserving of much praise for making the call to go in and do that. It's a huge feather in his cap that nobody can take away.
But, beyond that, his economic policies haven't exactly been "stellar." Unemployment is still way too high, as are long term credit card / borrowing rates, and the price of gasoline is crippling our ability to work our way out of debt.
Furthermore, the national debt, which was 5 trillion in 2000, has tripled in the last 11 years. Granted, much of that took place before he took office. But, if the truth be known, he has done little to curtail unecessary spending, and much of the cuts he has made have to do with national defense, and the military. I don't think this is the time to be cutting the military budget.
Now, I know you're a hardcore Obama supporter, regardless of what you say about being "fine" if he were not to be re elected. I know at least some of what you posted is toungue-in-cheek. And that's all well and good.
But, if you think that all things Democratic are good, and all things Republican are bad, then you need to "think again." Because, they are BOTH full of "bull."
A fair assessment of Obama's two and a quarter years in office would be to say that he's done a "decent" enough job. Not outstanding, not excellent, not terrible, not bad..........but, "decent."
In order for his term to be outstanding / excellent, we would need to see a strong economic recovery of the type we had during Bill Clinton's first term.
Short of that, the best that can be said of Obama is that he's been a "decent" President.
The only point I am making that no matter what the polls say who will win the presidency in 2012, the Republican-controlled Congress will not work with this president -- and mathematically they are not going anywhere for the next 4 to 6 years. All the rantings and ravings will not change that fact. If the Republicans are not going anywhere and no amount of they should do this or do that will not bring about an air of cooperation for this nation, then what is the alternative that is best for this nation?
J. Merle . . . I guess we will agree to disagree . . . thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts.
P.S. I kind of love the way you brush of that whole Bin Laden capture as a footnote . . . and health reform . . . and financial reform . . . and saving the auto industry . . . getting BP to pay up without waiting a decade for a trial . . . all just typical everyday kind of stuff . . . just decent . . . I guess most modern Presidents have been very indecent indeed, eh? :o)
Ben,
I dunno . . . I guess we will just have to do whatever the Republicans tell us to do . . . we are powerless against them.
Whoa is us.
B.Honest:
Great to see you back and outstanding post. I could not say it better. Thank you
I see Ben numbers got caught in another lie again.
@Navy -- what "lie?" I just didn't recall the association between the two groups and immediately admitted it when it was brought to my attention. Shame on you.
B Honest, very well thought and well written. Trying to downsize in profitability is always a fool's errand...those who believe government should be run like a business should realize that. The debt issue is serious, but will remain manageable as long as we do the things necessary to grow the economy. Destroying our educational system, our infrastructure, our social safety net, and the middle class will accomplish the opposite.
Alan, NJ, Actually, that 5% tax on the stock markets would stop the trading companies from doing their 3 man shuffle of the pension fund stocks. Right now they trade them back and forth amongst themselves and reap the fees associated with making the trades, giving HUGE bonuses to those that shuffle the fastest. That shuffling happens to take the profit out of the stocks and pays it to the shufflers, instead of the money flowing to the pension funds themselves. Taxing those trades will stop a lot of those shenanigans and, at the same time, start pulling some of the money that has been locked up in stocks back into the real economy instead of keeping it sequestered in the paper economy that only benefits the traders, corporations and the Already-Too-Obscenely-Rich-To-Fail Club. The amount of stocks and bonds in public pension plans is a TINY amount compared to what the Corporations, Trading Companies and the Uber Rich own.
America bailed out Wall Street after they ENGINEERED the crash and reaped billions off from it, took the money that bailed them out and instead of investing it back into America, took out bonds and bought more company's stocks and refused to loan to normal American businesses. It is time for them to pay us back, with interest.
And no, the tax would not be on both sides of the trade, those doing the buying would have to pay the tax, just like any other sales tax...you know, like for beer or cigarettes or most everything except for food in those States that fund themselves with a sales tax now. Why should Wall Street be exempt??
Nice start to the posts, Navy...
What is your opinion of General Petreus as head of the CIA?
I'm thinking that the POTUS has decided that special ops/intelligence is a more cost effective model to deal with the War on Terrorism. If he does, that should reduce spending considerably.
The Republican leader in the Senate, Mitch McConnell, said that. The Republican Speaker of the House, John Boehner, said it as well. Rush Limbaugh said it. Bobby Jindal defended it.
This website wants Obama to fail (thevirtuousrepublic.com - the link will not post for me)
So does this one (toberight.com)
So, yes, despite your protests, Republicans, the party, want Obama to fail.
Nash:
You are demonstrating yeoman’s effort today to keep the truth on the table. I saw the clip from the Daily Show this morning and after I laughed out loud I had a sobering thought. What if the majority of the electorate is so uneducated that they believe what Rove, Card, Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, et al have been saying for the past week…”they are responsible for bringing bin Laden to justice not President Obama.”
While I think the President’s election chances are good for 2012, it is going to be hard-fought no matter who the Republicans nominate because they will rally around their candidate even if it is Newt Gingrich (serial adulterer) or Sarah Palin (intellectually challenged).
Like you, I will be fine if the President is not re-elected because he has done more good for the country in a half term than GW did in 8 years. I just know the country and the world will be a much place if he is re-elected.
And I guess us private sector workers with 401(k)'s or IRAs don't count. As long as the public sector is protected then its OK. The private sector retirement asset size dwarfs what the Uber-Rich own.
Also there is already a disincentive to frequently trade shares. There is a difference on the rates for Short-term and Long_term capital gains tax, with long-term usually being the lower at 15% or 5%.
Thanks Sheila for the kind words . . . of course I agree that the country would be better off if President Obama were re-elected . . . but I have also come to terms with the fact that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink! :o)
Kind of like you can lead a Teapublican to the truth, but you can't make them THINK! ;o)
Considering that there is some $28 Trillion invested in stocks and bonds, presently, and only 4.7 of that is held by those with IRAs and 401k plans, I would say that the amount held by the pension plans IS tiny compared to the overall numbers. Note, this does NOT include the privately owned and non-traded stocks.
Thanks for playing!
Ben, so you are saying that since the GOP in congress won't work with Obama, that the nation better elect a GOP president, because that is better for the nation?
Two points:
1) That worked out real well during the bush years which ran as of that time record deficits, and that figure didn't even include the two wars that he foolishly got the country into.
2) Isn't that undemocratic. If an elected congress refuses to work with an elected president, who is the one that is acting in the worst interests of the country. But at least you admit to desiring tyranny over democracy.
Nashville_fan
"..........J. Merle . . . I guess we will agree to disagree . . . thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts.
P.S. I kind of love the way you brush of that whole Bin Laden capture as a footnote . . . and health reform . . . and financial reform . . . and saving the auto industry . . . getting BP to pay up without waiting a decade for a trial . . . all just typical everyday kind of stuff . . . just decent . . . I guess most modern Presidents have been very indecent indeed, eh? :o).........."
I'm sorry Nashville. Did I miss something, or are you one of the "hosts" on this board? I always thought you were just another poster like myself.
Your most recent post exposes your passion for Obama in a way that your first response didn't. It's clear that you're a passionate supporter of his, and there's nothing wrong with that, per se.'
First off, I didn't mention Bin Laden's kiling as an afterthought. I have stated, repeatedly, that I think it is a huge feather in Obama's cap, for which he deserves a lot of credit. In fact, I think it defines his presidency thus far.
But, you need to take a clearer, more "objective" look at some of the things you list as being such wonderful accomplishments. To begin with, a federal court has ruled that at least some portion(s) of the so called healthcare reform bill violate the U.S. Constitution. Additionally, premiums, deductables, and co-pays have skyrocketed since it's passing.
Furthermore, what "financial reform" are we talking about, here? Last time I looked the banks are still charging unreasonable fees for ATM transactions, long term credit card rates haven't come down, and the banks are still holding refinancing loans close to the vest. The whole object for people to invest in the housing market was to have a piece of property they could fall back on when they needed money to send their kids to college, etc. Obama called this "using your home as an ATM machine" and catagorized it as something bad. The banks were bailed out with your, and my tax dollars, and the money went to pay bonuses for high level executives instead of keeping the banks running as lending institutions, for which it was intended. And last on this subject, but certainly not least.....we're still in a recession. HELLO! There is still very near 9% unemployment. He's been in office for two years now. By this time in Bill Clinton's first term, the recession was over, and we were well on our way to a significant recovery.
As for BP paying for the cleanup in the gulf; They should pay, holding them to their responsibility is no big deal. But, here's my question.....where's the money, and more importantly, where's the cleanup? They haven't done squat to cleanup the beaches and tourist areas that depend on tourism for the livelihood of local residents. What's more.....with all the deepwater technology available to the federal government, why didn't Obama do more to cap that leak earlier?!
So you see, using the "if you don't like my answers to your questions, then let someone else be for President" line won't work with good a percentage of the population, including myself.
Obama has been an "okay-to-decent" President. He hasn't been all bad. But, he hasn't been a "superstar" either.
Historical....? Yes, in that he's the first black President.
Historically significant......? Remains to be seen.....depends on what he does with the economy, and most importantly for right now......what he does with the price of gas.
In closing, good luck to you Nashville!
I hope Obama lives up to your hype, and I hope he succeeds at doing good things for the country as a whole.
B Honest, thanks for bringing facts to the table. Catering to the very wealthy because the rest of us own less than 5% of the total is yet another version of trickle down economics.
Nash - I see distance made Merle's heart grow fonder...
They still got themself a bad case of Nash fever...
*popcorn*?
J. Merle:
I don't really get the whole "host of the board v. just a poster" line, but I guess that wasn't really for my benefit anywho, huh? :o)
Seeing as many of the health reform provisions don't take effect until 2014, and health costs have been rising steadily before it was passed, hard to see a cause and effect relationship their.
President Obama is successful on a historic level for what he has accomplished, not for the color of his skin.
But in closing, I will just say "Welcome back" and thanks for the last lines of your post . . . on that we agree!
P.S. Extra butter on that popcorn please! lol
"Nash Fever".......no.
Responses to some pretty outrageous statements by a rather "flamboyant" poster, yes.
Truth hurts, eh Feisty.
:-)
P.S. Please check your grammer. A mis spelled word or two is one thing.
But,....."They still got themself a bad case of Nash fever".....makes you look like a dumb assed hillbilly.
*Salt & Butter for your popcorn?*
Takes one to know one, eh J.Merle! :o)
P.S. I've been called a lot of things, but never flamboyant . . . so I guess you are pretty historical yourself . . . don't hate the player J. . . hate the game! lol
It is so sad to see the blogs lifers ganging up on people that expect people like feisty Red and Nashville to actually answer questions, and all they can do is bait them for attention. I guess feisty is first on every topic because he can't miss a chance to incite a little gang styled antagonism.
Where do da intelligent people be at? I has seen this zoo enough.
Earnest Lee:
What is really sad is to see you predictably try to turn the focus away from failed Republican policies by trying to change the subject to posters on the internet who you don't even know.
P.S. I have spent this entire thread answering questions, so nice try with the right wing "anything I say is truth because I said it" trick.
JTP:
I think he is a good solid choice the head up the CIA. And you are right, the days of huge Naval Power etc are coming to an end. We are relying more and more on intelligence and surgial strikes. We got drones and satellies watching just about everthing. Some of our Naval Vessels contain more fire power than was expended during WWII, just on one ship.
Ben: I was talking about Politico. If you have retracked your statement then I apologize and retract mind as well.
I'm jealous Nash - you're picking us as many stalkers as I do these days!
The Chewowa gang strikes again!
NOT FAIR! lol
And that would be Ms. Feisty to you Earnest!
Now back to the popcorn - and I made a nice icy batch of Cherry kool-aide for you GF! ;o)
It's HOTTER than hell here in Chi-town today!
Nashville.....I asked if you are a "host" of some sort on this board because you thank people for their contributions as though you are one. I guess that's part of your "flamboyance," which by the way, comes out in some of the outrageous statements / claims that you make.
Like for instance, the one about Obama being an historically significant President because of his accomplishments. His "accomplishments" are few and far between....and there are "flaws" in his "accomplishments," some of which I pointed out to you earlier.
As for there being no connection between rising health-care premiums, rising deductables, and rising co-pays, and the so-called healthcare reform bill; the insurance companies are raising all three in anticipation of offsetting the losses they will incur as a result of having to provide certain coverages that will be mandated by law. I also notice that you didn't have a come-back for the fact that a federal court found certain aspects of the bill to be unconstitutional. So, yes there is a connection between the rising costs associates with health insurance, and this bill. I can't wait to see what happens when the bill actually takes effect. My guess is it will only get worse.
Flawed or fraud?Why does the media court Carl Rove as an "expert" when the fungus would rat out a CIA agent? Remember Valerie Plame? Rove may have a lot of wealth and wealthy vermin, as friends but I would rather get my expert advice from my two year old grandson.
Every media type and GOP worshipers, forget Rove helped cheat Al Gore out of his presidency and then John Kerry! Rove is not the type of "expert" you can trust, even to ask the color of the sky. He will sell out anyone for more wealth and power. Why he is not in jail, I will never know!
Bush, Reagan, Gingrich, Palin, Christie, McCain; the rest, of the have been and wannabes, have one thing in common; they will do anything, to get your vote. Granted, many put Reagan, in the same category, as Pope John Paul II but, I for one, believe no one is a "saint." Especially, if the "someone" has Rove, in his/her corner! If Rove is backing them, not only do you want to look closely, at the candidates birth certificate, you might want to check their school grades, military records, if they are not mysteriously "misplaced." Also, one might want to preform a DNA test, finger print and eye matching, as well as, get signed legal documents from everyone and anyone, who may have passed Roves candidate on the street, ever.
You see, Carl Rove is a cheat and a liar. Between Rove, Cheney and Rumsfeld; they pretty much ran the United States for eight years. Bush was just a male, of an idiot, who had name recognition, a powerful daddy and wealth. Even GWsdaddy did not want GW, to be president. Daddy preferred Jeb. Rove pretty much ruin that scenario for papa Bush. But as I always say, two Bushes in the Oval Office, the people of the United States, should give them both the bird.
Take That Back
A Quayle in the hand is Not worth two Bushes! Especially those Rove'ing Bushes!
And J. Merle, while there have been 2 Federal Courts rule that the HCR is illegal, 3 (Yes, THREE) other Federal Courts have upheld the Law....please get your facts straight and tell the WHOLE truth! Please Note, the SCOTUS denied the right wingers the ability to fast track this to the Supreme Court!
J. Merle:
I thank people for their comments because that is the courteous thing to do . . . sorry if that bothers you. Any additional costs that insurance companies incur from health reform will be more than offset by the additional customers, no? And they could also cut their CEO salaries if they find them self too very pinched! lol
Rest assured that I do have a retort about the federal courts, but I'm starting to see that what you really want is the last word . . . and you shall have it . . . because I'm leaving! :o)
P.S. Feisty, it is really hot here too . . . thanks so much for the cherry koolaid . . . or as I like to call it . . . "red"! lol
"We know there is a 22% - 30% fixed group of people who just will NEVER support not merely President Obama."
Aside from daily brainwashing from FOX, Hate Radio, etc., this group will toe the Party line. They would even vote for a Manchurian candidate AFTER he uses a baby to shield himself from a bullet.
True and anyone else:
I am relatively new to posting, seeds, etc. I sometimes feel their are plants (spies) who collapse our comments. they also, deliberately nit pick our posts. When people start correcting spelling and English, I have to believe, they are Republicans, trying to do anything to change the subject. Their intent is, to stop liberals, from looking at the man, behind the curtain, aka "The Wizard Of Oz"
Let me be the first to welcome you the the 'mud pit' lol
Please don't be intimidated with the right wing whack jobs dirty tricks to suppress the voice of reason!
If you have any questions or need any other 'tips' on how to beat them at their own game just HOLLAR! And I'll lend you a helping hand! ;o)
Welcome, Take that back, and yes, we find that the right wing has a lot of difficulty understanding that Freedom of Speech is not just an entitlement for them alone.
Fiesty: I am proud to hear from you. You get collapsed more than anyone, which leads me to believe, you are hitting the right, where it hurts the most. I like you style. And I will count on your help. P.S. I've got your back, as well.
Proudly Liberal!
Take that Back:
You are welcome here to this board. I look forward to reading your posts. Some do get a little out of line but there are a lot of friends here as well.
Navy:I have always like navy men. Except for one I dated in the late 60's. He graduated from Annapolis and was rather arrogant. Thank you for your service to our country and I am sorry you were injured. I am assuming Viet Nam? I admit I was foolish back then and paid little heed, to the war back then. My mom was a very anti war back then and I was anti mom! At any rate, Americans owe you and all veterans, a lot more than you have received.
I am pretty ornery myself.
Take that Back, Welcome Aboard!! Yes, we have a dedicated group that collapses posts on a regular basis, NOT according to the CoH. Something that has been documented by a few people in the media is that over 1/2 of all of the right wing bloggers are PAID to do so, some of them in call center type work situations, where they get their daily talking points and not only get paid an hourly wage, but also by the post. I highly suspect that some of the 'regular right wingers' here are of that type, they are on what they clearly call a Left-Leaning site and almost Never actually add anything to the discussion, but are certainly quick to jump in with lies, distortions and insults against some of us on the left. In Fact, we have had some of those folks banned from the site, yet they keep coming back under different names, and likely different ISP numbers provided by the employer. One such program that I read about provides multiple internet accounts and names, with 'realistically complete backgrounds' in case someone (like the media or investigators) try to look into their activities.
I do not mind individuals who are willing to actually discuss the issues, and not go flying off into a frothing rage, and have learned to just ignore the paid troll types that are all too obvious in their modus operandi!
Anyhow, welcome to the Mud Pit and our lovely game of Whack-a-Troll!
Take that back, thanks for your feedback today. Your powers of observation and analysis are obviously good,you see what's happening very clearly. I believe it's especially important to speak up when you're expressing an opinion that Conservatives want so badly to silence. When it becomes that important to keep a subject from being discussed fully and publicly you've found a key point of attack in the war against the middle class.
Thanks for joining us, and I hope you'll speak up often.
LOL - I'm not the queen of collapse for nothing ya know! ;o)
If you'll excuse me, I have to go polish my crown!
Feisty,
You do have quite a following my girl. Your name is all over other posts even though you did not post there.
You are an amazing woman, who is loved by many. The ones who criticize and collapse, just have to find a way to get your attention.
Lots of love.....:>)
*blushes*
Why thank you Fletch!
Seriously? lol I must be doing something right! ;o)
Lot of Love back at you! ;o)
Fiesty Redhead:
You are no "queen! They are old and ugly and require dusting, every day . You are more like a princess, young and pretty; with a lot of life in you.
Well, now that you put it THAT way! lol
Thank you for the lovely thoughts! ;o)
LMAO it is time to stop tracking this topic if Feisty is fielding ego boosts. I was under the impression Feisty was male from the Mothers day meal he made his wife tho. My mistake.
On to more flawed postings.
You probably need some reading and comprehension classes.
Way to prove this became a serious debate Fletch. LOL Stay that immature, prove King Obama was right to keep photos from a FEW people.
Not worth the trouble, ELS. You've already said you're a Birther, facts mean nothing to you compared to your hatred of the President.
You say I made those statements, you convict me of hate, so in your tiny world, it is true. No matter to me John. Because you only matter to you. Go walk in small circles with the Pauls.
Your own hate, your own Birtherism, in your own words. I don't need to "convict" you of anything, your own words expose you.
Attack # 1, >>> Not worth the trouble, ELS. You've already said you're a Birther, facts mean nothing to you compared to your hatred of the President.<<<
Attack #2, >>> Your own hate, your own Birtherism, in your own words. I don't need to "convict" you of anything, your own words expose you.<<<
Repeating yourself won't prove to anyone but yourself that I am what you accuse me of.
Sheeple of the world, that is what you look like when you point and puke weak racist and hate based antagonism to defend a POTUS that refuses to answer to the Americans that he S E R V E S.
By the way John, I was last talking to Fletch, what made you jump in? ROFFLMAO@U
Because John is respected and appreciated.
But as usual I see you are accusing him of what you are soooo guilty of. Hypocrisy much?.
Spot on, Navy. An if you don't believe they don't like it, just hide and watch the nasty comments on here this morning. It will be overwhelming, to say the least.
If we could just figure out a way to bottle up all their hate & vitriol - it would make one kick a@@ alternative energy! ;o)
DBO:
I think the American people are ready to tackle this by the horns now. All they ask is that the sacrifice be shared equally across the board and no repealing of Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security. Fix the problems like fraud, waste, redundancy and programs that no longer work. Address the underlying cost factors and reform the tax code.
There is a lot on money that can be saved without throwing people out into the streets and taking away entillements. Try to fix them before you kill them.
Fixing the problems like fraud, waste, redundancy and programs that no longer work are all things that our President has spoken about often. He tries but the GOP denies. If the tea-publicans had America's interest at heart, they would be willing to work together to solve our problems. Sadly, they are stuck on the failed ideology of their hero, President Ronald Reagan, and the myth the right has spun to support it--despite the fact, that even Reagan bailed on that ideology as flawed and unsustainable. The evidence against Reagan's ideology is enormous, it lives in the huge debt, the declining wages for middle America, the short-term vision, in unfair tax codes that favor those who have while breaking the backs of everyone else, in constant defunding of education while complaining about our failing public school systems. But some how, the myth that it works lives on in today's GOP.
America pays all the politicians, and gets to control nothing they do?????? Stop the runaway train. Take hold of the civil servants. At least if America had a voice in what our choices for representatives did, these threads would be less saddening. We would only have ourselves to blame.
Repost do to fascist attack:
The rhetoric on the Debt Ceiling is starting to heat up. I have posted my position on Spending Cuts several times and I think it appropriate to revisit them again now that it appears we are really starting to look at this problem. Most of us can agree that we do need to get Government Spending under control. But spending cuts alone is not the answer. We also need to increase revenues as well. One without the other just will not work in the long term.
In my opinion everything (and I mean everything) needs to be on the table, no exceptions. So when I hear the GOP/TP set restrictions on what they will consider I conclude that they are not serious and this is going to be another my way or the highway hostage taking exercise. We see it already when Rep. Boehner says no tax increases period but then says everything else is on the table right after they vote to keep the Oil Subsidies. So enough of the BS from both sides. It is time to roll up their sleeves and put together a plan that is meaningful and sustainable. It must share the sacrifice across the board and not put the burden on just one group like the GOP/TP is currently trying to do. Everybody pays something on this one, no exceptions.
What about cutting the fraud out of DOD Budget?
Defense contractors that were convicted of defrauding the Pentagon received new contracts from the Department of Defense in the amount of 285 billion dollars over a three year span.
Even more shocking is the determination of the Department of Defense to continue the practice of steering taxpayer dollars into the bank accounts of contractors that the courts say intentionally stole money from the federal government.
Now, the question is whether Congress will be as tough on multinational corporations with long-term patterns of wrongdoing as it was on a community group that made a few mistakes. Remember the Acorn Standard?
Source: http://www.thenation.com/blog/158250/pentagon-fraud-papers-contractors-defrauded-dod-were-rewarded-285-billion-new-contracts
What about addressing the fraud in Medicare/Medicaid?
“CBS Reported of all the problems facing the United States right now, none are more important than health care.
President Obama says the rising costs of the last decade are driving huge federal budget deficits that will put our future in harms way, and that there is enough waste and fraud in the system currently to pay for health care reform if it was eliminated”.
”In fact, Medicare fraud - estimated now to total about $50 - $60 billion per year. See 2010 for example.
This story may raise your blood pressure, along with some troubling questions about our government's ability to manage a medical bureaucracy”.
Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/23/60minutes/main5414390.shtml
What about addressing the source of the double digit annual increase in Health Care Cost?
Like the Insurance Companies who have bloated administration costs. Drug Companies, let’s buy drugs in bulk like Medicaid or bring them in from Canada, why are the same drugs cheaper in other countries than they are here? Medical Product Manufacturers and Distributors, many are running like monopolies. Until these entities are brought into line Health Care Costs are going to continue to increase at double digit rates.
What about the Tax Loopholes that allows multinational corporations to hide money offshore?
What do tax loopholes cost: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html
“Those ‘expenditures’ will cost the U.S. government $628.6 billion over the next five years, according to a 2010 report from the Tax Foundation. With advice from the Urban Institute’s Eric Toder, one of the country’s foremost authorities on corporate tax policy, we assembled the 10 most costly corporate tax loopholes and who benefits from them”.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/corporate-tax-breaks-2011-2#ixzz1G981OjMg
Tax Cuts for the top 2%?
We do need to address the tax cuts for the richest 2% that cost this country about 150 Billion per year (income, capital gains/dividends and estate taxes). This is 1.5 Trillion Dollars over the next decade and that number is growing as the richest 2% keep making more money. It is a fact that tax cuts to the rich do not create jobs nor do they stimulate the economy. Just look at the last 10 years. Where are the Jobs and where is the economy. It is a failed ideology. Trickle down economics does not work. It has not in the past and still does not.
And there are more high ticket items that can be cut or eliminated as well that nobody is talking about
Get out of Afghan and Iraq – these Two Wars cost the taxpayers over 100 Billion per year, especially now in Afghan that OBL is dead.
Stop all the subsidies to Oil and Gas Companies – here is another 53 Billion over the next decade
Tax Reform for the other 98% that level out the playing field. I have no problem paying a few dollars more every year as long as everybody is paying something and the monies collected are used to move this country forward.
Currently Congress is going after all the wrong things. What is cutting a few Million off a Social Program really going to do for a deficit that is 1.5 Trillion – nothing. What I am saying is we need to go after the meat and potatoes and cut the fraud, over spending, mismanagement etc from those. Right now we are still just playing with the desert.
And we also need to address the same issue at the Federal level as well. Too many departments doing the same thing that needs to be consolidated. Not only would that also save Billions and Billions but it would make the Government more efficient as well which save more money in the long run.
What I am not for is the “Privatization” of Medicare via a Voucher Program. I am not for making Medicaid a “Block Grant” program. Neither of these solves the problems but merely shift the costs to entities that over time cannot afford them. Over time Medicare and Medicaid will not be available for the very people the GOP/TP claim they are protecting it for. The GOP/TP is NOT protecting these programs for future use at all; they have put them on a road to collapse. We have to attack the underlining problems with costs and stop attacking the beneficiaries. Medicare and Medicaid Programs are not the blame here any more than those citizens using them. The GOP/TP is attacking the wrong end of the serpent.
Again, everything really needs to be on the table and the sacrifice needs to be felt by all Americans not just one class or the other but everybody needs to have a stake in this.
Now we also need JOBS that will also create additional revenues in the form of more people working so more people paying their taxes. The Government needs to create the environment to create jobs like a Jobs Bill to address the 3 Trillion Dollars of Infrastructure Maintenance that is needed in our States. A JOBS Bill to promote high tech companies etc. The government cannot create Private Sector Jobs per se but hey can have an impact.
Don't Underestimate Trump's qualifications to be President:
1. No manners, very crude, but an elegant snarl
2. Bigot and tries to stigmatize generations of African-American college students and graduates
3. Skill in insulting international leaders and their people.
4. Voracious greed
5. Invisible unnamed evaporating investigators with "incredible" results
6. Irrelevance of fact
7. Wants to be a kingmaker for the Republican nominee so he can call him anytime he wants.
8. Establish his country clubs as enclaves for rich right-wingers, who can then"get along well with the blacks" who are bellmen and who bus tables.
9. Attract proposed deals so he picks the best on the best terms.
10. Get cozy with the right wing billionaires, their contacts, and especially their capital.
11. A plantation owner with a helicopter.
INVESTIGATIVE UPDATE
12. He gave his word he'd release his tax returns "when Obama releases his birth certificate." Obama did. Don--hello? Credibility used to matter.
13. Pro-choice, then Pro-life: more flip-flops than a flapjack.
14. He knew hardship as a child. Other kids were unkind: "Who ever heard of the first name 'The' ?"
15. He once said something nice to someone, then apologized for the mistake..
Ummmmm, Sig?
Are you a poor bitter comedian out for some sort of revenge? What does this have to do with fixing a flawed pack of professional speechmakers that get voted into important seats in government? I do assume this article is supposed to get America thinking about solutions, not make racist innuendo.
Throwing stones Feisty???
>>>
Nash - I see distance made Merle's heart grow fonder...
They still got themself a bad case of Nash fever...
*popcorn*?<<< as well as
>>>
If we could just figure out a way to bottle up all their hate & vitriol - it would make one kick a@@ alternative energy! ;o) <<<
Can't you smell your own brand??????
Navy, that's a good tag line -- "Try to fix them before you kill them." Oh, but that would be a "commonsense" solution, not a black-and-white "throw the baby out with the bath water" idea. Any complexity makes conservatives hair hurt.
I don't understand the anti-Mormon sentiment. Huntsman could be a strong candidate. Romney's faith is a non-factor when compared to his lies on health care.
His religion should not be a factor, Republicans insist on mixing religion with politics, they ignore separation of church and state, in fact they try to convince people that the founding fathers wanted a Christian government. They can't decide if they want a president or a pastor. I don't like talking about religion so much but republicans routinely mix politics and religion. The bottom line is this: While a good republican believes in Jesus Christ, they could never bring themselves to vote for him in an election. Isn't that strange.
Good points Auntie Fascist and Forrest Grump. The GOP embraced the evangelical Christian agenda and the result is today's conundrum for conservatives--every republican candidate must pass the "sniff" test of evangelicals.
Know what is funny?
The only people I see bringing up religion are liberals.
For the record, I could not possibly care less about any politician's religion- except for instances where they seem bent on imposing it on others, or exploiting it for political gain. I am of the firmly held belief that the Constitutional prohibition on religious tests is one that should be enforced vigorously.
That said, (and considering that it is thanks to liberals that I even know that Huntsman and Romney are Mormon), the former will have an issue with serving in the Obama administration, the latter with the healthcare program he signed into law as governor of Massachusetts.
Beginning, middle, end. Huntsman may have an easier time explaining away his issues. I do not think Romney can- not with those favoring repeal of Obamacare growing their majority monthly.
Really no jo? Of course there is that whole "Obama is a radical Muslim thing" and Obama belonged to an "anti American Christian Church thing" brought to us by the "teabaggers". It is hard to keep up with what they are hating Obama FOR day to day, but religion is certainly among the problems that they contrive.
The President in bed with whatever religion, as well as whatever foreign politician. Was separation of church and state that bad an idea?
Less than half of Americans say they would feel comfortable with a Mormon as a presidential candidate, and the lowest comfort levels are with a leader of the tea party movement, a Fox News commentator and — lowest of all — a person who has had a career as a lobbyist, according to a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll conducted March 31-April 4.
No Joe, if the only people you see bringing up religion are liberals, you better make an eye appointment. I don't give a damn if Romney performs animal sacrifices to Thor! I'm a lot more concerned with his two-faced approach to health care!
How could anyone support someone who they perceive as not being intelligent enough to not believe one of the biggest scams in the religious world?
Most Christian religions do not agree with Mormonism. Just a fact. Mormonism is based on a lie, "The Book of Mormon." A lot of people fail to truly understand the ridiculous nature of the religion of Mormonism. Yes, there are good people caught up in this cult like religion, but there are good people who are called Muslims that are also caught up in a lie called the "Koran."
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Hebrews 1:1-2
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
For the record, I could not possibly care less about any politician's religion- except for instances where they seem bent on imposing it on others, or exploiting it for political gain.
NoJo, I very seldom agree with you but do so on portions of your post. However, I would point out that there are some on the GOP side who have spread the lie that Obama is a muslim, while accusing him of being part of Rev. Wright's supposed Christian liberation theology. The funny thing is that if Obama believed in the tenents of Prosperity theology he would probably be more welcomed within the GOP tent.
D. Voter - To your post, I can only say to each his own. I think our greatest freedom in the US is the freedom of choice including the choice to worship/pray as we see fit.
No Joe - I want to congratulate you on such an well thought out and insightful post. There can be no way that anyone on these vines could disagree with your post!
Yellowdog, Tell that to God. Freedom to Him doesn't include "do your own thing."
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt. 7:21-23
Disabled, Just like there are good people caught up in the lies of Christianity and the many interpretations of the bible.
It's ironic, mostly it is conservatives who claim they want a return toward the constitution, but yet at the same time demand their candidates share their religious views.
U.S. Constitution, Article VI, paragraph 3:
I do not believe religion is a requirement for morality, but I believe many politicians hide behind it because it gives them credibility with their voters.
Dave, myself being agnostic, the clause itself basically states that a person cannot be disqualified from the role of president, however, that doesn't stop the voters from using it as a determination factor of their choice.
I wish people could learn to read a comprehend instead of taking things out of context and making assumptions. Where has rationality gone? People claim to be rational beings and let emotion cloud their judgment. If you do something to make me understand that you are not intelligent enough to make rational decisions, (i.e. Mormonism), then why would I think you could make rational decisions about other things? As far as Christianity being a lie; the biggest lie that has been perpetrated on mankind has been that there is no God. Over 90% of the world believes in a Higher being with many of them being scientists. The athiest community propagates the dribble of a minority of scientists who through circluar logic prop up their own. Where does morality come from if it does not come from religion? Where did a standard of right and wrong come from? No true Christian would hide behing his belief for credibilty even while pandering for votes. There is nothing like someone who claims to be a Christain to be reminded by others that they are more than hypocrites.
"One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all , and through all, and in you all," Ephesians 4:5-6
48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 12:48
That's My Standard. It doesn't matter what people think. The bottom line is what matters the most is what is important to God. I am sick and tired of people trying to give Christianity a bad name. The GOP runs on the premise of being God fearing christians, but fail to practice what they preach. The Democrats accept everything and every idea that comes along. The truth is there are more moderate rational thinking people than media projects. If Democrats were smart, then they would quit bashing religion. Not everyone who is religious are registered Republican.
Thank you DV, that's just how I feel about my faith.
Forest Grump makes a good point. Just look at the attitude of the right on abortion, gay rights. They cloak their arguments in "Religious Freedom" wanted everybody to believe as they believe. I agree religion and politics should be separate but too often they are not. Especially in today's political arena.
I think our greatest freedom in the US is the freedom of choice including the choice to worship/pray as we see fit.
You don't know me so I won't take offense in your post. Nor do I say, in retalitory fashion, "I am a Christian." I simply say it because I am a Christian.
D Voter will stand by my statement as I was talking about politics and agreeing with another poster that there shouldn't be a prerequisite for faith or religion for any candidate. As to quoting scripture well just about anyone can snip a verse to compliment their ideas or make a point. As they say it is in how you live your life that matters. Believe me there are hypocrites amongst Repubs and Dems and both disgrace their faith.
I'm not the type to argue religious philosophy, especially on a political site, or wear my faith on my sleeve. Interesting that your initial line said something that to God, freedom is not to do you own thing. Well I wonder if you believe in free will? The big part in any faith is to make a choice to live by its tenents or as in Christianity to accept Christ as your saviour.
The greatest freedom we used to have, before the PATRIOT ACT, was the presumption of innocence and the right to an attorney and to be seen by a judge. We've been turned into a Nation of Lynch-Mobsters.
Yellowdog- You once again miss the purpose of my post. Auntie was saying she didn't understand the anti Mormon sentiment. Others had posted like yourself various response with respect to the prerequiste of religion angle. I believe that I adequately described the basic view of how the majority of Christian religions regard Mormonism. While you say you are not stating you're a Christian in a retalitory way, you somehow try to seemingly belittle me for using scripture, as if using scripture is a bad thing. It seems to me that a lot of people are afraid of the scriptures because it might mean they need to make some changes. You are right I do not know you and you do not know me. At least we agree that there are hypocrites on both sides of the fence. I wasn't suggesting otherwise, but referenced the GOP because they have made religion a part of their political strategy. A persons faith can only come from a proper starting point. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17 Religious division exists because everyone wants to do their own thing. "Prove all things hold fast that which is good." 1 Thess. 5:21 The only standard of truth must ultimately come from God. How can a true Christian live a double life? That my friend is what is known as hypocrisy! God's thoughts are not our thoughts. Isa. 55:1-2 I am very glad to have the freedom to worship God according to His plan, but I will worship Him as He has determined to be worshiped regardless of government freedom. "God is a spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." Jno. 4:24 I respectfully disagree with you that anyone can quote scripture to compliment their point. The purpose of scripture is to make a point, reveal a truth, dispell a lie. Most are ignorant of the scriptures and rely on theologians for their information instead of reading and understanding for themselves. Religious division has been championed by man as being a good thing, while God has always hated division. ". . .and that there be no divisions among you;. . ." 1 Cor. 1:10 Because of religious bigotry the world has been transformed into a religious cesspool. It isn't any wonder why so many people do not believe in God. God has created us a free moral beings who have to choice to either worship or ot, but He has never left it up to us to determine how we are to serve Him. The unfortunate consequences of "doing our own thing" will be dire. cf. Rev. 22:18-19 The problem is that so many claim to live by tenets of faith, while in reality they say one thing and do something entirely different. That is hypocrisy. A person must not claim to be a Christian and not abide by the doctrines or teachings of their faith. Separation of church and state keeps the government out of the church, but if a politician is truly a Christian, then his decisions will consistently reflect his belief. Some want the separation to exist solely for the purpose of allowing the government to do their dirty work. My Bible reads that I must love my neighbor, help those who are helpless, not to kill, steal or bear false witness. One doesn’t have to look very hard to see our government doesn't operate according to Biblical principles. Accepting Christ involves a lot more than going through the motions. The term "Christian" means Christ like. "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." Phil. 2:5 The bottom line is that rational thought does not begin and end with man's opinion. We have all types of mathematical and scientific standards, but until we accept the only true standard of morality (i.e. Bible), we will continue to war over opinion. While some consider philosophy as irrelevant to political discussion, others consider it imperative. Understanding thought and the systems of reasoning are foundational to learning. “The substance and essence of Christianity, as I understand it, is eternal and unchangeable, and will bear examination forever, but it has been mixed with extraneous ingredients, which I think will not bear examination, and they ought to be separated. Adieu." John Adams 2nd President of the United States.
D Voter,
I trust you didn't use The goats vs. sheep parable from the Bible to assume anything about me in your post?
Using scripture is not a bad thing, however to some people when discussing politics it can be a non starter. Especially if your audience or other posters do not espouse or have your same beliefs. That is why it is better to leave religion out of politics. Of course there are people of faith who are politicians but I don't want them to try to use their faith to make political points. I don't need them to tell me what is the right, moral or the Christian thing to do.
On your other portions of your post, for the most part your preaching to the choir - brother. I only say that the manner in which you frame your arguments, in this setting, may ensure that not everyone will listen.
"Flawed Candidates." LOL, there is a difference between being a "flawed candidate" and being Newt Gingrich.
Newt Gingrich led an eight (8) year GOP temper tantrum that started when Bill Clinton won the 1992 presidential election. He did absolutely nothing as Speaker of The House of any value for the American people.
His actions while in congress include; voting against the deficit reduction act of 1993, a bill that set the tone for the balanced budget that Bill Clinton left office with; voting against the crime bill, which, after it passed, led to a 35% overall reduction in violent crime nationally; leading the charge to shut down the federal government in 1994 and 1995, and pushing for an investigation of a President's sex life, after leaving his own wife, on her death bed no less, for a clerk with whom he was having an affair.
Yeah there are "flawed candidates" out there, and then there is New Gingrich. He isn't just "flawed." He is a downright embarrassment to the Republican party.
J. Merle Stanley-2759623
You tell 'em. Gingrich is the anti-Gerald Ford. No integrity.
There is a difference between a flawed candidate and a flawed person.
I'm not certain you can limit that description to only Gingrich. I would think it applies to Donald Trump, Michelle Bachman, Rick Santorum, and Sarah Palin (oh, she will run ~ count on it). I feel very strongly that Barack Obama can be defeated in 2012 but its is with equal strength that I think no one in or considering getting in the GOP race for nomination can accomplish that task.
Well said, J. Merle Stanley. Can't add a thing to it except to wonder why Gingrich is even given air time.
Amy.....Gerald Ford turned out to be a pretty decent President, in the wake of the Nixon debacle. But, he too had problems with credibility after the pardon thing.....I'm still not so sure he didn't cut a deal with Nixon's people.
Forrest.....A flawed person would indeed be a flawed candidate. So there really is no difference.
However, there is a HUGE disconnect between being a flawed person/candidate, and being a complete jack-ass. Gingrich is the latter.
Jim....For all of Trump's flamboyance, and "flaws" if you will, I think he could still give Obama a run for his money. Mostly because he is the only candidate - potential candidate who is talking about working to lower gas prices. Santorum is really the only one of those you mentioned whom I would catagorize as an embarrassment.
J.Merle: I believe that Ford was a decent man, and I took him at his word that he pardoned Nixon to get Watergate over and done with so the nation could heal. I am not convinced that he cut a deal with Nixon. I have always believed that he thought it was the only way out. Guess we will never know the truth of it, but I believe that subsequent events proved that Ford did the right thing.
Hiheels
".....J Merle. Flawed in that the ladies involved are still alive. I recall all the Kennedy woman on the side seemed to overdose or drown. Gary and Shandra Levy. Franks, Foley ,Clinton, Mahoney.. ....."
LOL, THIS is the type of thing that Nasville was talking about in another thread, when she said that Republicans peddle BS.
First off, Chandra Levi's murderer turned out to be a serial killer in the DC area, who by the way was just convicted and sentenced for her disappearance.
So, unless you're saying the courts are dishonest, you (along with the media, the DC police department, and Levi's own family) owe Gary Condit a HUGE apology. Philanderer, yes, along with Bob Livingston, and half the floor of the House of Representatives. But he didn't kill her and it's an all out lie to even insinuate otherwise.
Now, as for Ted Kennedy, and Mary Jo Kopekne. I would feel much better about your concerns if they weren't politically motivated. I wonder what it's been like for the Kopekne family to hear her name for the last 40 years, everytime a Republican pundit wants to smear the reputation of a Democratic office holder or candidate. I wonder how much pain that causes them. But, you don't care do you....as long as you can use it for a talking point.
.....and as for the rest of it. I'm not necessarily a Barney Franks fan. But, he was never formerly accused, arrested, nor charged with anything, and if we ever investigated the sex life of every President, I'm sure we would find out some interesting things. Like, what kind of "quality time" the White House staff arranged for George HW Bush and Linda Tripp (together) back in the early nineties, and what connection a woman named Robin Lowman has to the Bush family, in particular "W." (At least Clinton chose to cavort with woman well above the age of 15.)
Oh, and one last thing.....Newt's marital history will provide enough monolougue fodder to keep the late night TV talk show hosts telling jokes for two years. My GAWD, he married his HS math teacher! That's the kind of thing "Dateline" does stories about!
J. merle,
On top of that, Newt handed his first wife divorce papers on her deathbed. He couldn't have waited a couple of months to let her live her final days in dignity, nope, he had to rub it in.
Regardless of the affairs, that action alone disqualifies him for the job.
Jody, Iowa:
" wonder why Gingrich is even given air time."
Not just air time, he actually gets a sit down with David Gregory on Meet the Press!
 its unfair to say that Clinton and Obama went on to win even though they were flawed...they had many attributes that we like...any of the GOP have extremely few ...Rove? what a rattlesnake....and many are like him.
Angela makes exactly the right point. I would add that Clinton and Obama were not flawed, but flaws were invented and attributed to them by the same crop of "teabaggers" that are in the process of destroying the Republican party. Same m.o. then as now. Invent things, keep repeating them, do massive misleading ads that the lessors amongst us fall for hook, line and sinker, and voila you have a "flawed candidate" (except not.) These Republican candidates are truly flawed. Romney puts a finger up to the wind to figure out what he is for or against, Newt has the incredible ability to preach family values, but lead life devoid of the same, well, I could go on but won't. You get the picture. I don't think the question is how the voters will perceive this group of candidates, they are beneath contempt. The question is who the Republican party will cajole into stepping in the race. Mark, Domenico, any ideas on who that will be?
Angela, simply and perfectly stated.
If the biggest flaw President Obama has is being conciliatory by trying to drag both sides to the middle in order to solve this country's many and huge problems, that's a flaw I support. I may not always agree with the middle ground reached but the alternative is a completely dysfunctional Congress getting nothing done while "Rome" burns.
Angela and Newday are both wrong. We don't need sex symbols or Rock Star wannabes in the White House. No flaws, how about adultry in the Whitehouse? How about no experience except "community organizing" in Chi Town, Jessie Jackson territory. Biggest flaw, Clinton could have killed Osama with a drone, didn't. Clinton did not see 9-11 coming even though it was years in the planning and happened only months after Bush was elected. Obama has stopped the interrogation techniques that got the initial information that led to Osama's demise. He wanted to bring the terrorists from Gitmo to New York and give them the same rights in Civilian Court that citizens of the US have. Only strong opposition kept it from happening. His go to guy Holder has yet to say if he has dropped the investigation into the CIA interrogators from Gitmo, possibly the ones that got the initial Osama info.
Yesterday as ususal, instead of handling anything serious, Obama came out with his usual diversion. Let's bring up immigration again, get enough arguement going so no one brings up the economy, or jobs, or the devaluation of the dollar by the printing going on in Washington.
Today I hear that The FED and AIG are going to offer a combined 300 million shares of AIG for sale. The government owns 92% of AIG. Watch him claim to make a profit by bailing out this INSURANCE Company. Then wow, he can claim his plan worked, yeah right, get back (maybe) the tax payer money you gave these guys after they screwed up the company and got their bonus. In the interim tax payers didn't make a dime on that money.
By the way if the FED is a privately held corporation and it is stated the FED owns 92% of AIG. How come tax payer dollars bailed out AIG and if there is a profit from the sale of the stock WHO really will get the profit? Tax payers or the owners (mostly banks, insurance companies, and the ultra rich) of the FED?
No flaws? How about no experience, no competence and no future in politics after 2012 for your guy.
Like I said, repeat lies often enough and the "Fox News" crowd jumps right on board. Embarrassing, what?
The sock puppets volunteering after the call from Obama yesterday at the border are out in full force, posting BS.
The President of the United States of America stood there and said "we are better than that" talking about why we should not enforce the law of the land. A very large echo of his radical group of comrades.
We are better than letting all this PC bull make us think we cannot carry out our own laws. He as much as said we should ignore those who break our immigration laws even tho the same night we hear of raids in two states of brothels run by illegals with sex slaves from South American countries. Should we also ignore these criminals? Should we ignore the murderers crossing our border each day and even commiting murder in the US?
We are better than that Mr. President. We are better than letting the sheer numbers of law breakers and the possibility of gaining votes make us ignore and denigrate our own laws. We have always welcomed legal immigrants. Most of us have ancestors that were immigrants unless we are 100% native American. If millions of people suddently decided to become burglers should we ignore the law and give them a pass simply because they are so many and maybe had babies while doing this kind of crime?
In the eye of the beholder I guess: You call it PC, I call it common sense. I thought it common sense when Bush wanted immigration reform, and I think it's common sense now. We're not going to deport 12 million people from this country and facing that fact is in no way "ignoring" our laws, since border security is tighter than its ever been. The very fact you're HEARING about busted up brothels is testament to the fact they are NOT being ignored. The record number of deportations ought to give you another clue.
What we are better than is letting fear, hatred and xenophobia guide our public policy (that is unless you're a Republican running for office and that's a baseline for winning the far right vote to even gain consideration.)
Flawed Field is an understatement. The only reason so many republicans are still "testing the waters" is because all the candidates have negative baggage and none of them excite independents or moderate republicans. They're still "exploring" because none of the big backers are enthused. The biggest problem is not that the GOPTP doesn't have some smart potential candidates because they do. But the smart ones appear boring and dull compared to the TP ones like Bachmann who excite the base but turn off everyone else. Gingrich is smart and fires up the base but he's got more baggage than the others combined.
Collapsed by the Community. Monday and Tuesday, I mostly just observed the happenings on First Read. Collapsing is the equivalent of telling a teenager they can't date a certain girl or boy or see a certain movie. Collapsed by the community means that every reader simply clicks on the "+" to see what was written. It seems to me collapsing a post one does not agree with merely increases the votes because "curiosity killed the cat."
In other words, collapsing a comment that does not violate First Read's Code of Honor is like giving that comment an "R sexually explicit" rating to the comment and attracks more readers to it. Collapse away.
Jody:
Kudos, you nailed it.
And they didn't even mention Donald Trump!!
Re: collapsing---I think FR is such a great place for political discussions---I like hearing what my fellow libs have to say on the issues of the day but also want to hear what the conservatives think about things. It is disappointing when people collapse posts that aren't a violation of the Code of Honor---it seems childish and it also puts the whole site at risk----we don't want Newsvine to get fed up with us, do we?
I think it's just silly. I noticed that hours after some nitwits collapsed Feisty's post yesterday, the responses to her thread kept coming at a fast and furious pace anyway for another couple hours.
Absolutely best way to get Feisty's or Navy's posts read is for the right wing, "we can't stand thought that deviates from what we have been brainwashed to think," to collapse them.
I'm not sure we have seen the next President yet. It's obvious career politicians don't have the personal will to make commonsense decsions. Obama will still have the Poverty Lobby behind him but I think the people he refers to as "The middle class" have figured out all his rhetoric just encouraged more people to go on public assistance programs. Welfare, Unemployment, Farm Subsidies, Mortgage assistance, Subsidized education, Subsidized housing, Subsidized Medicare, etc. etc. etc. Let's vote for COMMON SENSE in 2012! We really need a leader who will do what needs to be done.....
That won't be anybody YOU'RE backing!!
Let's vote for COMMON SENSE in 2012! We really need a leader who will do what needs to be done.....
I truly appreciate your fiery independence. When you vote in 2012, please be sure to post a couple of photos of the roads you've built for yourself instead of those whacko public thingies I drive on. When you relieve yourself prior to heading out to the polls, be sure to provide photos of your private septic system. In the meantime, please don't go to any public hospitals. While I hope you don't face any foreclosures, if you do, please just use that fiery independent pot of gold in your back yard.
And please don't consider Dick Cheney's message that 'Deficits don't matter' so he and Shrub could take the country into two wars sans financing, and a similarly non-funded buy-out of seniors with the prescription med program, while providing underserved and unneeded tax breaks to the wealthy.
Also don't consider that the stimulus, while perhaps not creating a bunch of new jobs, did preserve existing jobs. Those funds are running out, so in the county I live in, 620 public sector employees (you know, those scurrilous professions like police, firefighters, teachers) are about to get pink slips.
So please don't post (on that subsidized Internet thingie) from an informed standpoint, as your fiery independent rhetoric may not be in the least bit factual, but it is amusing and easy to poke holes in.
Have a nice day
Kinda like the big oil companies and financial institutions have figured it out with all the hand outs to big oil companies and hand outs to wall street. To you UAW if the middle class gets Welfare, Unemployment, Farm Subsidies, Mortgage assistance, Subsidized education, Subsidized housing, Subsidized Medicare, etc. etc. etc. it's a hand out, but if oil or wall street get a hand out it's OK.
Gyrotillicus. You nailed it! Well done.
Gyor, That is horrible that your county leaders hired 620 public sector employees they couldnt afford with out "Stimulus money". Again let's stay together and VOTE FOR COMMON SENSE IN 2012! We really need leaders who can do what needs to be done not what unions want.....
Maybe a president that will listen to America. I bet a lot of self important, insulting nobodies would start speaking with respect, if they actually had the POTUSs' ear. Maybe American concerns would matter more than personal opinions to some of the know it alls too.
And thankfully, we have just such a President right now--I don't always agree with him but he is an actual bona fide adult who already has an extraordinary record of accomplishment leading this country out of near ruin from the disatrous presidency preceding him. (And I don't think it's good for the country to have such a pathetic, weak and extremist field on the other side, but short of finding a candidate for them, they will just have to serve as a reminder of just how empty and empty suit can be.)
Look at what a common sense politician did for Wisconsin. We need more people like Scott Walker who are more concerned about doing what is right than worrying about being re-elected! VOTE FOR COMMON SENSE IN 2012
UAW, you write:
Gyor, That is horrible that your county leaders hired 620 public sector employees they couldnt afford with out "Stimulus money"
Consider using that fiery independence to avoid making false assumptions. None of these employees were 'hired' with stimulus funds, their jobs were PRESERVED by stimulus funds. Their jobs were historically financed by typical resources like property taxes, but those went in the tank due to the foreclosure mess, which was brought on by the fiery independence of financial institutions that chose to absolve themselves of common sense when it came to the management of home mortgages, the bulk of which came during Shrub's administration.
You go on to write:
We really need leaders who can do what needs to be done not what unions want.....
Want to throw in that racially tinged 'Poverty lobby' catch-all too? While not a union member, I fully appreciate historically what unions have done to better work environments for everyone, far more so than what corporations have done on their own to better the lives of their employees or consumers. Even so, when I vote, it's for a candidate I can most agree with on the issues at hand, which demands a tad more decision-making nuance than listening to and regurgitating those fiery independent bloviates on FOX News and conservative radio.
Have a nice day
GYO, Please use some respect when you talk about George Bush and remember when common sense told him fix Fannie and Freddie in '03?? Barney Frank (D) ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committe said: "These 2 entities --Fannie and Freddie are not facing any kind of financial crisis". "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing".
VOTE FOR COMMON SENSE IN 2012! Not a career politician...
UAW writes:
GYO, Please use some respect when you talk about George Bush and remember when common sense told him
Oh I can think of much worse terms than Shrub, but's that what I'll stick with for now. And about whatever the entity is you call 'common sense': whatever it told Shrub, he obviously wasn't listening much to it's counsel during his entire presidency. As for Frank's alleged comments, just when did Shrub take those seriously? As I recall, in 2003 the Repubs controlled Congress (51 Senate, 229 House), and history tells us they along with Shrub did nothing to stop the corporate binge.
Now you tell me about your fiery independent use of a term like 'Poverty Lobby' and why that isn't denigrating. Or why a blanket disparagement of unions is to be taken seriously by anyone with an IQ over, say, 65. If you want to have a nice conversation, you should start it off that way.
Have a nice day
GYO I don't think the term "Poverty Lobby" is populated by just one race. I am also not just blanket against all unions. Just unions that have public employees as members and finance the campaigns of Democratic candidates whose vote determines union wages and benifits. I am merely suggesting common sense should dictate an elected official should protect the tax payers interests over a public unions interests. The country got a group of fresh eager politicians in 2010 that have goals of fixing what is wrong with America. Give them 10-15 years to fix the country 1st. Obama can come back when the country is stronger and use his remaining 4 years to apease any remaining poverty level citizens. FOR NOW LET"S VOTE FOR COMMON SENSE IN 2012!
UAW writes:
The country got a group of fresh eager politicians in 2010 that have goals of fixing what is wrong with America. Give them 10-15 years to fix the country 1st.
No thanks. I choose to learn from history. The country got a group of fresh eager politicians in 2000 with the same 'R' behind their names. They inherited a $2T deficit which the CBO reported would be eliminated within 10 years if then current budget policies had been retained. Instead, they (remember Cheney: Deficits don't matter) ran both the federal budget AND the economy into the ground over the next 8 years. I shudder at the thought of giving them an additional 10-15 years to bollix things up even worse. I'm open to a Republican having a good idea, but thus far they're few and far between (gut Medicare anyone?)
As for public unions, prove to me that 100% of public union members donate exclusively to the Democratic party prior to making another 'blanket' statement, the type of which you claim to abhor.
I agree we should use common sense when voting, but based on your rather dogmatic posts, I suspect our results will be rather different.
Have a nice day
Gyor:
Great posts, kudos. Come by more often you have a lot of friends over here.
LOL AP, got some facts to back up that back pat for Obama the KING of America? How many more Trillion in debt are we? Anyone see the answer why there is an EDITING TIMESTAMP on his long form BC? Why is he playing MOMMY, calling us ballspiking retards? Sure AP, factless rhetoric makes the puppetmaster look like you have His strings on your intelligence.
If you are "Earnest"ly SADDENED , then why are you always LOL..???? Disingenuous much?
It was the actor and American cowboy icon John Wayne who made the remark about " hoping the president was sucessful even though he did not vote for him".
Bush was able to overcome doubts about his foreign policy experience to become President?
I know I'm going out on a limb here but hasn't it been reported over and over that Al Gore actually should have been our President?
The Republicans can win back the Whitehouse. Just steal it again.
Tom:
They are trying. Just look at whatthey are doing in WI. 6 Republican Senators are up for a recall election and they are trying to fast track their DRACONIAN Voter registration process wit the effect of disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of democratic voters.
This is going on in over 22 States now.
Election rigging is now a skill set for the GOP/TP.
Doing what they DO best! ;o)
U.S Navy and Fiesty--The Republicans seem to be pushing their luck with their typical chicken sh!t tactics.
Scott Walker like backlash from voters will will brand them as the digested billionaire turds that they are.
Good post, Tom---to me the most neutral thing that can be said about George Bush's election is that it was incredibly close and not a mandate for him overcoming doubts about his foreign policy experience (and it turned out that foreign policy was indeed his Achilles heel).
Good points, Tom.
If republicans can't win the debate, they cheat and create laws to undermine democracy and our voting rights.
What you are saying is we vote for people that refuse to listen to what we want changed? Or just that this rhetoric laden thread is good for time killing while America dies by whatever politician is in office?
This blog is getting pretty self evident by post 11.
RV: Ooo, can I can play? Let's see: undermining democracy: How about the Republican Governor of Indiana yesterday declaring a war on women in his state? No Planned Parenthood funding in a state for any Indiana woman--despite the fact PP is the MAIN health resource for women in rural parts of the state--Yes, they provide LEGAL access to abortions, but also are the main provider of family planning, cancer screenings and dozens of other basic health care services. That's the most recent attempt to exclude women from the US Constitution (right to privacy) so I won't even get into the Republican Taliban Congressman in Georgia who introduced a bill criminalizing miscarriages (he thinks women should have to prove they didn't INTEND to end their pregnancies).
Yeah - good old algore - we really would have been in bad shape had he actually won his own home state. The good people of Tenn. who knew him best voted against him. That should tell you all you need to know.
How about:
Cutting back on early voting days and restricting name and address changes (thefloridacurrent.com)
Fining voter registration organizations if they don't submit their lists within 24 hours.
New restrictions for those voting overseas, including those in the armed forces.
Restrictions on who can help someone, such as a family member or someone who is incapacitated, to vote.
And there are many more...
We will vote for Common Sense, and that Vote will be for President Obama. He is the Real True Deal, that is best for the United States.
Job 1, Let's get more common sense politicians elected now. Give them 10-15 years to get the country fixed. Let them instill a better work ethic among the population. After that Obama can come out of retirement and use his remaining 4 years of presidential eligibility to ruin the country. The key is we will be in a better position financially to cater to the Poverty Lobby.....
Tom ,Yreka
U.S Navy and Fiesty--The Republicans seem to be pushing their luck with their typical chicken sh!t tactics.
GW Bush thought to be a good president he had to start a war.
In 1999 M. Herskowitz was contracted by presidential candidate Bush to ghost write Bush's biography. That year, the two had over 20 very candid sessions together to capture Bush's own words on a variety of subjects. 16 chapters were completed.
Before the book was published Bush's campaign people canceled the contract with Herskowitz and had Karen Hughes finish it, as they felt the original was not positive enough because it contained revealing direct quotes from Bush himself. One subject was Bush's prerequisite for success in his future presidential legislative agenda.
"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind". He said to me: "One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief." And he said, "My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it."
( Later as president, Bush was to say that he had all this political capital and he was going to spend it on his agenda).
He said, "If I have a chance to invade, if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency."
Candidate Bush and his advisers were sold on the idea that it was difficult for a president to accomplish an electoral agenda without the record-high approval numbers that accompany successful if modest wars. Exactly like Margaret Thatcher achieved in the Falklands war, as recited by his advisers.
http://bushcrimes.net/
Scott Walker like backlash from voters will will brand them as the digested billionaire turds that they are.
Bush like Walker s trying to rewrite history so he won't be viewd as failure.
UAW,
Thanks funny. So far I don't see any Republicans that can measure up to President Obama. So, we will stick with the True GREAT President, and that is President Obama in 2012.
Did I criticize 1 through 11? My apologies, This will fix the flaws in politics. Are these people American? America is looking scary.
0bama is going to win 13 states plus DC. He has turned states like Ohio, Penn, VA, NC and Florida very Red. You can't win without those states and 0bama will lose them to any of 1/2 dozen potential GOP candidates. 0bama still has no clue what is going on and had to be drug off the golf course to be present when the Seals went in. Hillary, Panetta & Petraeus forced 0bama's hand and 0bama is now taking victory laps. This article is just another attempt by the lame stream media to influence voters. It won't work and the voters showed what they think of the 0bama agenda in Nov 2010 and they aren't liking it anymore now or in Nov 2012.
0bama still has no clue what is going on and had to be drug off the golf course to be present when the Seals went in.
It won't work and the voters showed what they think of the 0bama agenda in Nov 2010
I think you are the one with no clue. If you want genuine responses, correct those two statements. Stop listening to Fox, they have no clue either, they just know how to lie.
Yet another Conservative lie. If President Obama were on the golf course when the Marines went in how is it that there are pictures of him with his entire team in the Situation Room as the deal went down?
Ah .. the Republican/Tea Party mantra of immigration. Glad to see the President take them to task on the issue. As I recall, they had 8 "Bush" years to deal with the issue but in fact did nothing. So in truth, Republicans are failure at immigration reform. And as Obama points out, they keep moving the bar, build a moat, triple-quadtriple border patrol. Excuse me, aren't these the same people that keep saying we are broke. I guess they are only interested in reducing spending when it comes to entitlements. When it comes to border protection, the credit card is OPEN. Speaking of immigration, why is it Repulicans/Tea Baggers only focus on South of the Border illegals. What about North of the Border, and across the Pond illegals. Never hear any griping about that from them. Could it be a serious case of "Racism"?
So there we have it from the Party of Job creation!!
Complain loudly about immigration but FAIL reformation during the Bush era.
Expose themselves as racist by focusing only on South of the Border illegals.
Open the money floodgate for border protection but protect the rich with tax cuts.
Good post, Red. I dont see why they call it "just politics" for the President to set forth his views about immigration---he is addressing an issue of great concern to our country and saying what he would like to do about it, with input and cooperation from the Republicans.
RedDevPS. Terrific post. Republicans prefer to keep the southern border as a campaign issue just as they like keeping social issues front and center.
If the Republicans have a flawed field, what about the Dems - America is in trouble! This next election is not about "us" versus "them", as the inept media wants to make it, the election is about "we the people" MSNBC = biased and inept reporting!
Examples, please? In typical wingnut fashion, you're just tossing out unsubstantiated accusations.
You have to understand Houston, MtMike is used to watching Fox (the republican teabagger network) so all he knows is bias.
When MSNBC AND the leaders of America, (both parties) start addressing the real issues - the economy, record debt, record foreclosures, the trade deficit, growing government, another "police engagement" started in Libya and no plan from US Leadership to fix those problems, then throw in growing inflation, and the fact the US has been put on alert by S&P about losing their AAA Credit Rating when our do nothing Congress fails to address the deficit and debt - America is deep trouble. Try reading some unbiased reports and than stop bowing to the GREAT ONE who is leading America's demise.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/05/11/augustine.maasry.etal.debt/index.html?hpt=Sbin
http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/11/news/economy/trade_balance_exports_imports/index.htm?hpt=T2
http://www.walletpop.com/2011/01/17/2011-to-hit-foreclosure-record-three-need-to-knows-for-forecl/
MtMike and HiHeels: And yet, here you are, reading and posting on MSNBC...
See multi-views accepted!
MtMike-571674
When MSNBC
Why should MSNBC address the issues of the economy, that goes for CNN, FoxNews (if you can call it that), etc.. as well. They are NEWS organizations, they are there to report.
As for your other points:
1) The economy -- Well the GOP has no interest in the economy because they say that it is up to the private sector to manage the economy. Wow, they did a great job running up till 2008.
2) record debt -- Hmm why is it that nobody on the republican side complained about Bush running up a record debt, AND running the economy into the ground at the same time. Now during the recession, when you have 2 of the 3 components of the economy (the consumer and businesses) cutting spending, is NOT the time to cut government spending.
3) record foreclosures -- See comment number 2, it is related. That is how Bush ran the country's economy into the ground, by encouraging people to leverage themselves to the hilt.
4) trade deficit -- and exactly how do you propose getting people to stop buying chinese crap. American industry is but a shadow of her former glory.
5) growing government -- Again, bush did more to grow the government than any president before him.
6) another "police engagement" started in Libya and no plan from US Leadership to fix those problems -- And the problem with getting into two wars of choice is that you no longer have the flexibility to deal with regional flareups like Libya. Thank you mr bush., another "police engagement" started in Libya and no plan from US Leadership to fix those problems,
7) then throw in growing inflation, -- Well this isn't traditional inflation. Inflation is normally caused by excess demand for goods. Well in a recession, there isn't an excess of demand. That should tell you that this is NOT following the basic simplistic discussions that people learned in high school economics.
8) The S&P ratings risk is not something that has come about because of Obama, it is because of the massive deficits over the last 30 years, starting with Reagan. And if you look at the President that has run up those deficits, you will find 2/3'ds of the time, it was a republican president.
9) You can't deal with the debt until you deal with the deficit, unless you are addressing the mix of securities (short and long term). Odd that Clinton left a balanced budget and the first thing that Bush does is start running up the deficits all over again. Nice fiscal prudence
10) Yes america is in trouble, more long term rather than short term. But is the GOP basically blocking everything that the duly tries to do any help?
By the way, as a business owner, OUR BIGGEST uncertainty wasn't whether the bush tax cuts were to expire, actually we didn't care about that, it is that our health care costs are running away. That was a problem LONG before Obama became president, and unfortunately due to the republican mantra of do nothing to allow obama to accomplish anything, the health care reform does nothing to solve that problem. Shame shame shame, because it is because of health care that we have questioned to even continue in business.
11) Try reading some unbiased reports and than stop bowing to the GREAT ONE who is leading America's demise -- and you think Fox News is unbiased? They are about the most biased organization out there. Hell they should have been sanctioned for sponsoring the GOP convention that just happened in South Carolina as they are taking a position by that action. News is supposed to at least have the appearance of a neutral position, not take an obvious biased position, fund a specific party and then spew out their 'fair and balanced' crap.
Jonathan-2055273
Answer the questions: What is the current politicians, both parties, doing about: Debt, Deficit, US Credit Rating, Inflation, Foreclosures, Growing Government, "Military Police Engagements" the US can not afford?
Pointing blame, solves nothing. The US has to create 360,000 jobs a month, to turn the corner on this recession - In Obama's 2 /1/2 years, that has not been done once, not once. Growing Government, Entitlements, Bailouts, Borrowing, Printing Money, Raising the Debt Ceiling, and now Inflation is not a solution, those "remedies" are simply delaying the inevitable - cuts need to be made, solutions need to be found, pointing blame to past mistakes, does not do this!
Read the links above I posted, they are NOT FROM FOX NEWS! Try opening your mind and realizing the economic course America is headed down does not work!
mike:
yes, the situation is extremely tough, but the reality is THIS, the current economic situation did NOT happen overnight, it has been in the works with government AND business policies of the last 30 years. It is NOT going to be solved overnight either.
You can't fix the growth problem relating to job creation, etc.. by cutting the only part of the economy that is able to spend. Consumers can't spend, they are all tapped out with debt. Businesses can't spend until they see economic reasons to spend, in other words, signs of robust economic growth. There is NOTHING that Obama can do. The whole lie of the campaigning last fall wasn't that jobs weren't being created, but the lie was that the GOP could do nothing about it. Nobody can UNTIL the current economic Malaise is worked out of the economy. What can't be done however is to cut spending. Hoover tried that. You like that result?
The ONLY thing the GOP seems to offer is a) abortion restrictions (yeah that will do well for the economy) b) tax cuts (hmmm worked well in the past) c) a continuation of the failed policies of Reagan. The ONLY thing the Tea party seems to be offering is a return to late 19th century economics (also known as Austrian economics). And as flawed as what the Democrats are talking about, at least THEY have the track record of the presidential administration that posted the last year over year balanced budget.
As to the military spending, the two wars, personally I thought both wars were quagmires (and not the giggity giggity type) that should not have been started. The US Military budget has more than doubled since 2000. But the reality is that Bush was planning to invade Iraq even before he was 'elected' president. 9/11 just gave him the political excuse to do it. But what is done is done, and the only thing that can be done now is an orderly withdrawal that doesn't look like the withdrawal from Vietnam, which would be disastrous.
As to my personal believes, I am a fiscal conservative. I honestly don't care what social programs are enacted because anyone can justify any program on paper. However, once a program has been passed into law, it has to be paid for, whether that be through taxes or through spending cuts in other areas. There should be NO reason for a budget deficit for anything other than cyclical stability programs, and longer term investments that will reap a later surplus. As a nation, as a society, we have borrowed on the national credit card for too long, and things like unfunded drug plans (thank you mr bush) are a symbol of this have your cake and eat it too. The Stimulus package is different, it was a one time shock therapy to try and stabilize the economy. It isn't something that was going to be passed in one year. Now if people want the republican party to return to the idea of fiscal conservatism, then you need to toss out the radical religious right that want to impose their views on the people of the country.
I can't see your links, but your post seemed to put all of the blame on the current problems onto obama, which is where my Fox comment came from. If that wasn't the case, I apologize.
Jonathan-2055273
Finding solutions has to do with Obama, the President, and both political parties. Finding Solutions, is not currently happening! Open Links, offer solutions, stop blaming! Tomorrow is a coming, Yesterday is to be learned from and hopefully, not repeated. Obama, (sadly) is just a extension of Bush!
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/05/11/augustine.maasry.etal.debt/index.html?hpt=Sbin
http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/11/news/economy/trade_balance_exports_imports/index.htm?hpt=T2
http://www.walletpop.com/2011/01/17/2011-to-hit-foreclosure-record-three-need-to-knows-for-forecl/
Only on MSNBC can they take less then half being happy with Obama and less then half thinking he'll get re-elected and turn that into "wins easily". Like I've said before, welcome to MSNBC, the new Liberal Faux News.
18 months until the next election. A lot remains to be determined.
Inflation is on the rise, record foreclosures, no political answers to US Record Debt or Record Deficit, Government Waste, rising health care costs, US Military "police engagements" which are not paid for and have no exit plans, now, add in another, Libya, S&P threatening the US credit rating, add in, unfair trade agreements with the US - this is a real economic mess America is in.
The idea, Obama will be able to get a "handle" on this mess, remains to be seen.
Under the Obama plan, borrow, grow government, print money, raise the debt ceiling, tax, and now we are addressing inflation = ruh, roh.
America needs to add 360,000 jobs a month to turn the corner on this recession, that, has not been done once, not once, under the Obama plan in his first 2 1/2 years.
It is the economy people!
Yes everyone has to find solutions, but when one of those entities (the GOP) basically says, even if they are in the minority, we won't allow anything to pass unless you do what we say word for word, when their last 8 years in power were one of fiscal recklessness, exactly what do you propose. Coming out with ideas is all fine and dandy, but a waste of time if there is no hope in it actually coming to fruition.
as to your links)
1) The augustine commission. Some good points, but also with points that were politically unpalatable to both parties. Compromise is definitely needed. The GOP is happy with the tax cuts, but as the Ryan plan proved, they have no real interest in removing the tax loopholes that is the offside part of that component.
2) Reducing social security benefits now or even in the future when social security is not a problem. Even the fully funded until 2038 isn't really an issue that can't be dealt with by a few tweaks. Medicare and Medicare Part D are completely different. They need to be dealt with NOW. Part D needs to be revoked as it was never funded in the first place. The solution to medicare itself is difficult, but alas, the solution isn't medicare, it is the health delivery system in the country. Doesn't anybody realize that health care costs are on an unsustainable path across the ENTIRE health solution paradigm in the country? Do people realize that a 20% (my company, our premiums increased by close to 40% this year, and have averaged 28% per year over the last 6 years, is that Health Care Reform?) increase in the private insurance world and a 10 or 15 % increase with medicare and medicate isn't related? They are completely related.
3) Trade Balance. This is NOT a short term solution. Neither party has a handle on how to deal with this, but the republican plan of doing nothing is more harmful. I am not sure if anything can be done short term, as anything that strengthens the domestic economy significantly increases the value of the dollar which is counter productive because it lowers the cost of imports which increases the trade deficit and weakens the economy. Not an easy item to deal with, and I am not sure if anything can be done short term.
4) foreclosures. I am not sure what anyone can do about this short term either. The core problem is that people are in homes that are leveraged too much because of the bubble during the last decade and the push to utilize that equity. The solution to that is to sell your home and move to less expensive housing but because the economy has slingshotted down to a very low point, selling those homes is very difficult. Forcing the banks to 'write off' the loans without question is fair to the people that loaned the money to these people how? How would you like it if you loaned me a million dollars and I said, oops sorry, you can't have your money back because it is mine now. There are repercussions no matter what you do.
And repeating your points to me is not going to convince me anything but that you have learned from the GOP playbook. The concern about the deficit/debt should have been the ENTIRE LAST DECADE, not now when there is the greatest recession since the great depression. Yes you are right, it would be fantastic to not blame a particular party/group/person, but the reality is, blame has to go somewhere. The DEFICIT should be the least of the concerns right now. It should be in peoples minds, but without the jobs, and I don't mean 360K burger flipping jobs, but good jobs, then it doesn't matter how small your deficit is, the nation is screwed.
As flawed as Obama's plan is, largely hindered by the republicans that refuse to spend on infrastructure, things that will put good money into consumers pockets, it is EONS better than what the GOP has offered so far, which is basically deficit spending to put more money in already rich peoples pockets. AND FYI, I AM one of those rich people. I didn't want the tax cuts to be extended, I wanted my company's health care costs to stop growing exponentially. A 5% increase in my taxes I can plan for, I can handle, largely because it is applied to my after expense income. A 37% increase in my company's health care costs year over year, that I can't handle because it is an expense item that is paid even if I have a drop in income.
As to the 360K jobs, if the economy can't sustain growing 360K jobs in a month because it just isn't strong enough to absorb that many employee's, then guess what? I don't want 360K jobs to be created. Because what is going to happen is that the 'excess' over and above what the economy can handle is going to hit the economy negatively in other ways. We had 8 years of bush teach us that with the real estate implosion. That won't be worked out of the system for years. You really want the same thing with the job market in general? And 360K jobs per month is not the amount needed to turn the corner on the recession. What some people say is that is what is needed to be economy neutral. That is to cover new entrants as well as replace workers dropping out of the labour force due to retirement and other losses. Again, if the economy can't support that, then it is a bad thing (yes that is unfortunate).
I just wonder how you would be thinking if this were the early 30's. Remember that it more than a decade to get out of that one. This one could be considered more severe, but only moderated because of those things causing the deficit, unemployment insurance, etc...
Obama didn't create this, he inherited it, and NOBODY would be doing any better considering the political environment that he is working in. It is going to take a LONG time to get out of it.
Jonathan-2055273
"It is going to take a LONG time to get out of it."
Personally, I do not think the US has a "long time" to get out of it!
This, financial/fiscal crisis is worse than any other ever facing America. Population has changed, as has the world and how we in the US relate to others.
18 months until the next election. A lot remains to be determined.
Under the Obama plan, borrow, grow government, print money, raise the debt ceiling, tax, and now we are addressing inflation = ruh, roh.
Inflation is on the rise, record foreclosures, no political answers to US Record Debt or Record Deficit, Government Waste, rising health care costs, US Military "police engagements" which are not paid for and have no exit plans, now, add in another, Libya, S&P threatening the US credit rating, add in, unfair trade agreements with the US - this is a real economic mess America is in.
The idea, Obama will be able to get a "handle" on this mess, remains to be seen.
America needs to add 360,000 jobs a month to turn the corner on this recession, that, has not been done once, not once, under the Obama plan in his first 2 1/2 years.
It is the economy people!
MtMike
And here lies the problem, any cuts to government spending right now will generally cause a slowdown in the economy. There is very little fluff left in the system other than tax loopholes, but the GOP REFUSES to touch those because they are considered tax increases. And yes, the tax system needs to be completely restructured. That 14,000 page tax code needs to be cut to approximately 1/3 of that size (figure out of my butt comment, I am just saying that the tax code needs to be severely flattened).
Cutting defence spending, guess what? that is going to cost jobs. Those people laid off from those jobs are now going to draw unemployment, guess who is paying for that. So that is now a loss of spending power which reduces tax revenues AND an increase in government spending which makes the books look even worse.
Lets see, another fringe item that the republicans want to cut, planned parenthood (ironically started by the wife of an extreme fiscal conservative). So you cut planned parenthood, so now expecting mothers in lower income tax brackets don't get the required prenatal care because they can't afford it. Now society will have to bear the burden of higher medical costs down the line as the rate of complicated pregnancies will increase. It has been proven time and time again that the way to lower your costs is to commit to preventative action.
And yes, this financial/fiscal crisis is worse than only ONE other financial/fiscal crisis (that one was the crash of 1929, the closest 'relative' that we have). Now was it government that caused it? no, it was WALL STREET, yet whenever anyone talks about clamping down on the ability of wall street to play their money shifting games (that is the majority of what Wall Street does. It doesn't actually create anything, it just moves stuff around), the GOP screams bloody murder about how they are preventing money from being made. I don't work in the financial industry SPECIFICALLY for the reason that I got tired of feeling dirty about what it is that the industry does.
As far as time, right now, the debt to GDP ratio is about 70%. This is NOWHERE near the highest that it has ever been, which I believe was at about 104%. Yes the time is different, the US industry doesn't have the global reach that it did at that time (right after WWII) but worst of all, american industry doesn't have the will power to create real economic activity, preferring instead to flip money around. That is NOT something that ANYONE in the government can control. The solution to that has to come from WITHIN the people of the nation.
With the tax burden being the LOWEST that it has been for the last 53 years, what is very depressing is the attitudes of the people that they are overtaxed and that they don't want to do anything to help build the country. Hell maybe it is time to open the floodgates again and bring in some people no questions asked that do want to do that.
Johnathan (numbers) - your posts were OUTSTANDING. You have given a perspective that I had not seen or considered. Notwithstanding the partisan bickering that you will undoubtedly endure, your posts provide great insight.
Please continue posting. What you have to say WILL resonate with others who are reading.
Jonathan-2055273
Your logic is missing connecting the dots. The US is currently "going backwards fiscally", not holding their own.
Cutting, does not cost jobs - wrong assumption.
Cutting, creates jobs.
First thing these crooks in government/Washington should do is address government waste and duplication.
I can give you the MSNBC version (it is the same) of this report - and this report is simply ignored by the "left" and our crooked politicians
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/01/government-waste-numbers-report-identifies-dozens-duplicative-programs/
http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/fox_4_features/wastebusters/051011Congress-Yet-to-Act-On-Government-Waste-Report-
When the government pays people NOT TO WORK, then those people WILL NOT WORK. Stop rewarding people for not working! Make people choose work. Drug test those that receive "unemployment" and "benefits"!
I own a lodge in Alaska. We can not find help. (Pay is $10 to $15 a hour) Most in my area, hire students from foreign lands, because they WANT TO WORK!
Why would anyone in the US go to work for $10 an hour wage, when the government pays people, without drug testing them, that much NOT TO WORK!
By cutting, the country as a whole, replaces their deficit, with a positive cash flow - the "leak" in finances and the deficit is stopped, and this countries economy will grow as well as its tax base. Business will respond accordingly.
The Military Industrial Complex needs to be addressed and cut! That money, and those jobs, need to be re-directed back to rebuilding the infra structure of the US
The first place to spend or funnel the "new working tax money", is concentrating on repairing the infra-structure of America. (bridges, dams, roads) Putting Americans to work!
What Obama (and Bush) has done is, keep the banks and wall street afloat with their "bailouts" and fiscal policies, QE-!, QE-2 - at the expense of the taxpayer, and then watched those tax payers $$$$ invested in foreign entities!
It is simply wrong to do this.
These "bankers" and wall street are the ones who "out sourced" American Jobs, "bought" the politicians (both parties) and contributed to the bankrupting of America.
These "Bankers" and Wall Street, by investing in foreign economies, and making a profit in doing so, assists the bankers and wall street, and does nothing for main street America!
Stop this practice.
Obama in his 2 1/2 years has simply magnified Bush's bailouts and entitlements. Borrow, Entitle, Bailout, Print Money, Grow Government, Tax, and now Inflation! Reward the wealthy, at the expense of Main St. America.
Try to remember, 50% of Americans do not pay Federal Income Tax, yet those same people who do not pay, want their FEDERAL BENEFITS.
Why should anyone pay for anyone else in this country. What happened to personal planning and being responsible for the decisions one makes.
The wealthy ALREADY pay their fair share in taxes. (50% of Americans do not pay anything)
Taxing the wealthy, does not solve the fact, Americans are lazy and think they are "entitled" to a standard of living, beyond what they earn, just because they are looking for work or working. (Americans seem to think, because they work, they should own everything from housing, cars, cell phones, flat screen TV's to what food they eat)
What "entitles" anyone to think because they "punch a clock" they should live like their "neighbors"?
America still offers a way for ANYONE to improve, if, they are willing to work for it.
There are simply too many people being rewarded by government for not working.
Time and time again, America has proven, when people are entitled, they become dependent on that aid are not motivated to improve themselves.
The unemployed are: unimaginative, lazy, not disciplined, not willing to do what it takes, to get ahead.
There are tons of opportunites available in this country, even in this economy, if one wants to "pay the price" - too many think this country owes them!
All one has to do is "change course" - Obama (or the Republicans) are not offering that! America is in deep trouble and the clock is ticking on our debt and deficit!
QE-2 ends in June - this is OBAMA, not Bush! Then what?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB70001424052748703529004576160303812858240.html
Jonathan-2055273
This ALL IS OBAMA's doing (the same as Bush) except Obama poured more taxpayers money into these crooks!
QE-2 ends in June - the idea, Wall Street and "Bankers" are some how
connected to "Main Street" America has been proven NOT!
These "Wall Street" and "Bankers" (crooks) were kept afloat by taxpayers $$$$
(the government loaned (bailed out) these crooks who then loaned those same taxpayers $$$
back to taxpayers at 15% of more, like on credit cards)
Wall Street and Bankers
are investing their profits from America Taxpayers, in emerging foreign
economies, rather than the US - crooks!
As long as the voter/tax payer keeps voting people in to office BOTH PARTIES (more crooks
- the New World Order Philosophy) that allow this practice, Main Street America
is DOOMED, and the financial clock is ticking on America!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB70001424052748703529004576160303812858240.html
Mike
The REASON why the US is running backwards fiscally is because the recession while it may be over technically, it is not yet over. I have yet to see how cutting spending, which is putting money into the economy, creates jobs. Kill Medicare, so now retiree's have to spend more of their money on health insurance (and the figures are not pretty, if the government saves x dollars, those seniors need to spend x+ a whole lot more, if they can even get health insurance, great savings). You seem to think that the money that the government spends just disappears. It doesn't. It gets spent. Does it get spent wisely, not always, but the same thing happens in the private world. Hell I have seen one bank blow a quarter BILLION dollars on a project that accomplished nothing. Waste is not the sole domain of the government. It happens everywhere. My point though is that if you kill project X that the government is sponsoring/funding lets say the F35 fighter, which is way over budget, does that actually save anything? Not really. You will now have major layoffs from Lockheed (a company where almost 100% of its revenues come from government). Those people that got laid off will have a VERY difficult time to get another job, which will lead to them going on unemployment. Guess where THAT money is coming from? OH MY GOD, the GOVERNMENT. In addition, the reduced income, remember that UI is a very limited amount of money, the government is no longer getting the taxes.
The ONLY time that cutting a program will result in any savings is if that service doesn't actually service anything. You may find a few programs like that, but at most lets say 10B. That is a DROP IN THE BUCKET.
As far as your 'pay them to not work' I have yet to see ANY welfare program for ANY state that pays someone 20,000 dollars to not work (that is approximately what 10/hour works out to over a year). I honestly would like to see the specifics of such a program. Not sure of why nobody wants to work at your lodge, but maybe it has something to do with being in the middle of nowhere. Why don't you ask some people who have applied but not accepted positions.
Your 50% not paying taxes, that has a LOT to do with the wage pressures. Are you aware that the people that are in that 50% not paying taxes are making the same amount of money as they were when Reagan was inaugurated? Trickle down is right.
I am an owner in a company in Illinois. As an owner, I make less than about half of our employee's. Why? because they are the engine of the company. Even though I make less than half of our employees, I am STILL in the tax bracket that would have been impacted by the lapse of the upper income tax bracket. And actually I supported the lapsing of ALL the tax cuts, not just the upper bracket.
As for taxation in general, you seem to want to cut the military, I agree with that one, but you seem to support the party that is very proud of its position of, even if the wars end, no cuts to the military. And why do you think that it is ok for those two wars to have been started, but no means to pay for them? How is that fair to the taxpayers of the country.
As far as changing course, how can Obama change the course, remember, he is in the executive office, he doesn't create the law (only bush did that with his signing statements), it is up to congress to create those laws. The ONE thing that is impacting my business in a severe way is the cost of health care. Unfortunately, because of what the republicans did, the law that got passed did nothing to control those costs. A years worth of wasted effort in my mind. Whose fault is that, 100% on the Republicans. (I try not to get partisan in my discussions, but the actions of the GOP are making it VERY difficult to not be so. I tend to put it as, the Democrats are useless, but the Republicans are proving themselves to be LUNATICS).
And by the way, I don't really follow any of the news orgs, I read, and make my OWN decisions. I can read fox news because I know that they are completely biased. I read it, I adjust the tone to adapt it to their viewpoint and I make my own decisions.
And starving the beast doesn't work. If you want to cut the spending, then see how far you get trying to get medicare cancelled. But that isn't the GOP way. They think that just starving by giving tax cuts to people that don't need it will change things. It doesn't. If the law is there to provide a program/service, then you are obligated to FUND IT. If you don't want to fund it, get rid of the program.
As far as entitlements, why is it that the rich people that support the GOP seem to think that they are entitled to the same profit levels in a recession that they got in a boom time? That is just as much of an entitlement.
As far as your comment about unemployed people. Sorry, that has got to be the most ignorant, uninformed comment about unemployed people that I have ever heard. If your only experience is with uneducated high school graduates at your Alaska Lodge, then that explains it. Most of the people that I have talked to, and interviewed, are bright and educated with a work ethic that is beyond belief. I only wish that we could have hired more than the 14 people that we did. Again, until we see the potential business, it isn't going to happen.
At this point, I don't think that ANYONE really has the ability to get out of this hole. The things that I am seeing Bernacke talking about indicate to me that even he, someone who has a PH.D on depression era economics, is grasping at what options he has. Quantitative Easing has its merits, BUT only if the money supply that he is creating goes to actually building up economic activity, unfortunately the banks put all that money into money shifting derivatives (no real economic growth). What can the government do to stop that? NOTHING. THAT IS THE DILEMA. The fix to this situation is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. It requires an attitude change. And blaming government for an attitude change that has to occur within the people of the country is unrealistic. As to who is handling QE, that has NOTHING to do with Obama, that is Bernacke, He reports to congress, but congress doesn't tell him what to do, neither does the president. That was set up specifically to prevent political interference in the management of the money supply. Mr Bernacke is a VERY smart person. You may not agree with everything that he does, or overseas, but the one thing he isn't doing is making decisions that are deliberately trying to hurt the country. I don't particularly agree with QE2, but not because I think it is bad, but because I don't believe it really accomplishes all that much. Mind you, it doesn't really cost all that much either, but that is a different issue.
And a final point. I find it interesting that you on the one side push your support for the wealthy of the country, but then on the other hand you criticize the activities that these same wealthy people are conducting (wall street, etc...). That is very typical of the myopic view that the GOP has. People also need to stop thinking short term. Yes the situation right now is bad, BUT THE SITUATION DIDN"T COME IN OVERNIGHT. IT TAKES TIMe
Jonathan, GREAT posts. Very thorough and analytical, filled with important facts. Please post again and often.
Thanks Jonathan. Your comments are excellent.
Pietro, John B and Fletch
Thanks for your feedback, all of you. The one thing that I think that is missing in our society today is the sense of discourse, it just seems to be yelling and shouting (if you ever saw Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, it is almost like we are all turning into Vogon's. I guess the savings grace is that we don't have to listen to their poetry).
People don't have to agree or disagree with me, but at least take the points for what they are, observations based on personal experience, of which I believe I have far too much of it lol. All I hope is that my points don't get lost in partisan arguments in which I sometimes struggle to keep toned down, but alas, a lot of other people don't even seem to try.
cheers
Johnathon says America can kiss our @sses goodbye huh? Point I take is that politicians are civil servants, and have to listen and answer to America. King Obama is an exampleof how America is depending on the Hill to be a teat, and they are too busy stuffing pork into the mill. Alas, tone down the opposition to debate. Walk on water with Obama lately? When America can take back control of the executive body they vote in, the debt will fall, soldiers will live to old age protecting Americans inside their own borders, and America will be happy. So how do the flaws get fixed?????
Earnest,
ON the contrary, it is mike that is saying that america can kiss her ass goodbye.
I strongly believe that of any country in the world, the United States has the ability and wherewithal to dig herself out of this situation. What I AM saying is that knee jerk reactions ripping the country apart, both socially AND economically will destroy the country.
What it will take is determination, and most of all, steady progress. There is time, and YES the time to start acting is now. And the real solution is to make choices that will have positive impacts down the road.
Cutting programs that save you money long term is not a real solution, I don't know why people still think that. People have been thinking that for decades, hey lets cut something visible, but leave the rotting carcass to stink up the place.
As for pork, what do you think John Boehner is doing when he is demanding the spare JSF engine when even the military says that they don't want it. (and FYI, the spare engine doesn't mean making an extra engine that is identical to the one that was chosen for the aircraft, it means making a completely different engine that can be put in to the aircraft if the first one is discovered to not function correctly due to a design fault, something that has NEVER been done before).
And it isn't the executive body that determines what bills are passed, that is the LEGISLATIVE body. You want to not spend the money for medicare? Then next election, what you need to do is elect a body that will overturn medicare. That isn't the executive body that does that. Lets see how far you get with that. See the reaction to Paul Ryans budget lately?
As for the debt, that won't fall until the DEFICIT is dealt with. the MAJORITY of the deficit is cyclical, so when the economy ramps up again, that part of the deficit will automatically drop (unless of course the republicans enact so many tax breaks that it turns that into a structural deficit, but hey, anything can happen). It is the structural component that needs to be dealt with, basically take the deficit, including the unending wars which under the bush administration were actually off the books and weren't included in the deficit figures. that is about 500 billion per year. It is just amazing how the Bush administration, INCLUDING the majority republican congress, could do so much damage creating this structural deficit, TWO UNFUNDED WARS, UNPAID TAX CUTS, UNFUNDED DRUG PRESCRIPTION PLAN, COMPLETELY BOTCHED DHS CREATION, and people can STILL believe that the republicans can control the purse strings. absolutely amazing. And changing the public face does nothing because the same people are running things behind the scenes.
As for Obama, I personally give him a 50% grade in his performance, neither here, nor there. Better than the 10% grade I gave Bush. I have stated, the Democrats may be useless, but at least they aren't lunatics. Lunacy is what the republicans are offering.
As for the Republican candidates for president, Romney is the only one that I personally consider serious, however, I am concerned about his flip flopping on his own decisions when he was governor because it just so happens to match with the brain trust of the republican party.
As for pork in general, there really isn't that much pork. There may be a lot of items, but the cost may end up being only around 30 billion or so. In a budget that is approaching 4 TRILLION dollars, arguing about 30 billion dollars that doesn't address any of the structural issues of government is quite honestly a waste of time.
As for solutions, while not specific, here are some areas that need to be addressed.
1) Defense spending needs to drop to at least year 2000 levels, say 300 billion adjusted year 2000 dollars. That is MORE than a 50% drop. That would include killing programs completely that just can't work, like Ballistic Missile Defense (I am an engineer, if I can explain it to a person interested in listening, but with no knowledge of the math involved WHY it can't work to the level that you need it to work, then why can't a republican figure it out. I have tried many times). That means getting out of two pointless wars. That means a NEW, lower cost but better ways of defending the country. What is the point of a stealth fighter when the enemy today doesn't have the level of equipment to take it down anyways (when was the last time a US war plane was taken down by enemy fire).
2) Medicare, yes it needs to be resolved, but the cost issues are affecting health care in General, not just medicare. FIX THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM, not the visible part.
3) Social Security: minimal changes needed as the problems won't show up for close to 20 years. Make those small changes now, say raise the retirement age a couple of years, increase payroll deductions slightly, and it will be fixed.
4) reduce duplication in government. Right now, a person gets rejected in one program, they just go to another similar program. It is amazing how the US, instead of creating one program, has the propensity to create many similar programs, but duplicating overhead. Why have medicare and medicaid and the child health program. Create one, run them fundamentally the same.
5) Flatten the tax code, yes reduce the tax rate, but also drastically reduce the loopholes. I own a business, there is very little in that tax code that benefits us. The MAJORITY of businesses in the United States do not take advantage or those loopholes, only the largest multinational companies do. And look at GE (makers of that above mentioned spare jet engine by the way), paying NO tax in the US. They are the only ones that benefit, AND they also live off the teat so to speak.
6) You also need to make CONSTANT adjustments. Not everything is going to work. Creating omnibus bills that are difficult to change is counterproductive.
7) make INVESTMENTS in the country, not fund consumption spending. Build infrastructure that EVERY company/person can take advantage of to reduce the cost of doing business for everybody.
In short, what we need is a government for the future, not a government for the 60's (the Democrats) or a government for the late 19th Century (the Republicans)
Until People figure out Government is not a "cure-all", and Government is not and was NEVER intended to "take care" of them, (that is, we the people) America has no outs.
As long as "socialists" think that they can TAX those that are successful, to "baill out" those that make choices not to be successful, ROB (tax) one class to "enalbe" another, America has NO CHANCE.
The clock is ticking - 50% of America PAYS NO FEDERAL INCOME TAX - that is robbing from part of society to pay for "others" -
THAT, is WHY, America is failing! Personal Responsibility, No New Taxes, Cut Programs! Sell your car if it is not paid for, get rid of your i-phone, get rid of your TV, Get rid of your Computer - GO TO WORK! There are jobs, it is just American's are spoiled, pay your own way!
MtMike
And you exhibit the biggest reason WHY the extreme right AND extreme left have no clue. You have repeated Ideological rants enough that you treat them as gospel. It doesn't really matter to you what anyone else says does it. If one of your ilk said 2 + 2 = 5 and said it enough, I guess you would believe it. Well good for you. Enjoy your life with blinders on.
As Herb Brooks said (coach of the 1980 Miracle on Ice US Olympic team) once said "Lets be idealistic, but lets also be practical." You definitely are idealistic, you just need to get the latter part.
Jonathan-2055273
YOU, in your posts, you have offered NO SOLUTIONS - None-
your posts are simply explanations, ideals, give Obama and the US "time"!
Time for what - there is no growth or answers in current US economic policies - growing government and raising taxes does not create jobs - that is just a extension of the current failed policies (from the past 40 years)
"WE" in the US do not have time - if/when interest rates go up - ruh roh ---- if/when Debt (whether, personal, state, or Federal) goes up ----ruh roh
The US (and Europe) is going BACKWARDS fiscally, spending more than we take in. This can not continue!
Americans who "save" and are fiscally responsible, are being "punished" - look what "banks" are paying for interest on $$$$. 1% - ridiculous. Why, because the "banks" and "wall street" are busy getting wealthy in the emerging economies at US Tax Payers expense.
The emerging economies, China and India, backed by US Investors and US TAX DOLLARS have a HUGE population (India - China) and will very soon no longer NEED the US as consumers - the US (with the blessing of our crooked politicians, like Obama and Bush) has OUTSOURCED and BANKRUPTED their middle class and used the US taxpayers dollars to do so.
New World Order - yeah right - doing business with "communist" (who FIX their dollar and have trade agreements AGAINST the US) How DUMB is America (and their crooked, bought and paid for Politicians)
Government in the US is OVERPAID (UNIONS) and the tax base from which they draw from is gone! You admit that yourself in your posts. Our government can not "milk" the US working class for more $$$$-
When the PRIVATE SECTOR, that actually produces something, can no longer afford the taxes that pay for government, the "government" collapses.
THAT is what is exactly happening, why there is a DEMAND for cuts in government spending!
Raising the debt ceiling, without implementing more cuts and STOPPING THE DEFICIT (and future debt), is absolutely, ridiculous.
The US Government (and Europe) is on the brink of financial collapse -
it is idealist such as yourself, that are not facing reality.
Your theory, GIVE the US time - time for what?
There is no fiscally responsible plan being presented from Obama to stop the negative cash flow in the US - NONE!
Obama (and Bush) and his fiscal plan, with his borrow, entitle, bailout, print money, grow government, engage in wars, then tax, to keep the status quo going is a proven failure, both here and in Europe.
The US needs to: protect our borders, rebuild our infra-structure, cut back the Military Industrial Complex (and the US) from depending/being a "war machine" to create jobs here in the US (another of Obama's failed campaign promises - end the wars)
The US need to turn our US economy around, by implementing fair trade agreements and rebuilding middle class America, rewarding citizens who are fiscally responsible, not taxing those citizens out of exsistence!
That is done with JOBS, Fair Trade Agreements, here in America!
It is the economy People, and OBAMA (and Bush's) economic policies are a COMPLETE FAILURE!
America does not have time!
Inflation is happening NOW and the average Americans can not afford that!
Have a nice time waiting - QE2 is ending, the US has been put on alert (S&P) about their credit rating - the clock is ticking fast - one way, (voluntarily) or another (by our lenders FORCING THE US) the US will have to address their debt and deficit - very, very, soon.
Obama is clueless as far as fiscal responsibility - It is the economy, people!
S&P......? Aren't they the same outfit that couldn't properly rate the debt on derivatives and CDOs?
Jonathan-2055273
your quote below (and I do agree with most all your points in post #14.24, but that is idealism, not reality)
"As for the debt, that won't fall until the DEFICIT is dealt with. the MAJORITY of the deficit is cyclical, so when the economy ramps up again, that part of the deficit will automatically drop"
How is THAT "ramps up" cyclical "up cycle" you so casually mention, (just like Obama does) going to happen in the US, when the US is borrowing .40 on every dollar spent and Obama and the current politicians (both parties) are not presenting answers or solutions!
Doing NOTHING, is a answer in itself!
The US is no longer the "engine" that drives the world economies - we in the US have voluntarily given that position to "emerging economies" (China and India) who have a population waaaay, more than the US to "feed off of"!
The US (taxpayer) voter has allowed "crooked politicians" to outsource our US productivity for the benefit of Big Business (unfair trade agreements, where the US tax payer is not benefiting) Our middle class in the US are a nation of consumers, not producers!
Doing business with "Communists", who fix their dollar and implement taxes against our goods, is just plain stupid!
America has done just that!
Get ready to pay the piper, for what the US is doing fiscally, HAS, to change in the very near future.
You, have been warned.
What killed Americas ability to make and deliver our own goods? What made it a sin to use the oil we put back in the ground after we payed to suck it out of a different hole? What made alternate energy a hobby when we knew the price of gasoline was going to gut us? None of you people will actually answer those questions so we can carve out solutions. But I DARE you to TRY!!!!! I get it, you see the problems.
What oil are you putting back into the ground?
Earnest Lee Saddened
The US needs to "fix" our political process of electing our leaders.
The "outsourcing" of America, is a direct result of "bought and paid for" politicians, who due to BIG BUSINESS GREED, allowed the US to get in this fiscal mess.
GREED is the driving force behind this fiscal mess!
Fair trade agreements and JOBS for Americans needs to be the focus of our political leaders!
It is the economy people! Obama and the other currently elected do nothing crooks do not have the answers!
To do nothing, is a answer, be prepared!
MtMike
I support increased taxation as part of a comprehensive solution. I say that as a person already above the 200K single person tax bracket. No warning to me, I expect and I welcome it.
Earnest Lee Saddened
The demand for a quick buck is what made it a sin. It is something we are struggling with right now in trying to expand our business. When it comes to investors, most of them just aren't interested if we are actually trying to manufacture something, where the return is measured in a decade minimum. When you are talking about large scale manufacturing, that is how long you need to plan for in the future at least. If investors are only interested in putting their money in playing on the stock market; I don't call that investing, I call that structured gambling myself; then it makes it that much more difficult to compete for capital.
The only exception seems to be investments like facebook which have a paper value in the billions, which I quite honestly don't see where that so called value is coming from, but only have something like a thousand employee's. And if companies in China are willing to break even and even take a loss to manufacture for companies here, AND assume all of the risk (I am an engineer and a huge part of my job is measuring risk and assessing its impact), it makes it extremely difficult to compete. It is in essence the same thing as the trade violation of dumping, only it is in a 'service' rather than a product. We are trying, but it is something that looks like it will take a few years and some baby steps along the way to get off the ground. Our existing business has been flat for several years, and unfortunately things like health care costs are impacting us in a huge way and we need to significantly grow our business to make it work longer term.
As for solutions, one of the first things that I can think of is to remove any capital gains exemptions for profits derived on the stock market UNLESS the securities purchased are IPO'd. That would not be all that popular, but what people don't realize is that if you buy 10,000 dollars of stock in a company, that money doesn't go to the company. That goes to the person that owned the shares previous (minus trading fees). The ONLY time that money goes to the company, and the offering brokerage takes a huge cut of that, is when a stock/bond is issued for the first time. Anything else, is just income. So why are we as a society not treating it as income and giving it a long term holding tax rate of 15%. It didn't do anything to grow the economy.
We need to think of ideas that don't ban the activity, but gives preferential treatment to activities that grow the economy in real terms.
Jonathan-2055273
Congrat's on being "prepared". There is a reason I chose to move to and live in Alaska!
I would not want to be in a "big city" when interest rates climb and people can not make "ends meet"!
Our "do nothing" Congress, in "doing nothing" is a answer in itself. America can not sustain, borrowing .40 on each dollar!
Raising taxes will be a great compromise, IF THAT CAN BE ACHIEVED, as will, cutting the Military!
GL living in fantasyland.
Paul, S&P is one of 3 ratings organizations in the United States that rates corporate and sovereign creditworthiness. Even with that rating, anyone looking at buying equities or bonds from an organization need to do their homework. I guess people have just lost the sense of due diligence.
Also, a derivative is a generic term for a financial instrument that is based on another instrument. There are MANY forms of derivatives. Some of them truly should not be on the open market as they are essentially contracts between two entities (you don't see boeing plane contracts being regulated by the SEC do you).
Others should most definitely be regulated, instruments like CDO's, LDO's etc.. should be formally regulated. Now a CDO is essentially an insurance hedge. So if I loan you a million dollars, either yourself or myself would in essence take out an insurance policy on that loan so that if you were to default on that loan, the lender would still get paid. The 'cost' of that policy would depend on the risk rating. So if the loan was at 7% interest, the CDO underwriter would get say 3% of that. (This is why AIG was a HUGE player in this market, they are an insurance company and have the systems behind the scenes to do the actuarial calculations, though obviously they missed a 'couple' of things.
Now one of the problems that occurred with the financial crisis is that these CDO's were packaged and sliced up to try and spread the risk around. Spreading risk around has been going on for decades, it is the fundamentals behind the concept of a syndicate in the financial industry. So if I take 4 sets of CDO's, package them up into a single derivative issue, (that is derivative on top of derivative), it theoretically spread the risk so that if a catastrophe does happen, the system itself will be saved. That is the concept behind the Re-Insurance industry. (Note, that there really is nothing new with any of this).
Now, if you take those sliced up derivatives, and slice and spread them around over and over (which is what happened), then that spreading of the risk actually accomplishes nothing. What you have created is essentially like a monopoly, a single financial entity that has many divisions is probably the best way to describe it. This ISN'T a problem unless something else triggers a collapse. The financial crisis in itself wasn't just caused by derivatives, it played a part, but consumers and government feeding a lifestyle fueled by debt was yet another problem. Leveraged buyouts of corporations saddling companies with high debt loads that make them unable to adapt to changing economic conditions is another partial cause. The driving up of housing costs through unrealistic and unwarranted housing demand is yet another cause (this part was fired up through cheap money). The government for refusing to step in to slow down the economy to prevent this economic bubble from happening is also another cause; sometimes you actually need to have a recession, and we would not be facing what we are now if we had one in say 2005, it would at least be a lot less severe. This is why I personally often say 'Nobody is at fault, yet at the same time everybody is at fault for the financial crisis'.
How do we prevent it from happening again? segregating the banks isn't necessarily the answer, other countries operate with an integrated banking system (canada for example) and didn't have any financial institution problems. What needs to be present is a regulatory system that doesn't treat making money at all costs as the only desirable outcome. THAT seems to be the governing attitude today. Sometimes 'slowing' things down is the better way to do things. Unfortunately the financial reforms do NOTHING to prevent this from happening again. Consumer regulations for example had no purpose in controlling wall street. That should have been a separate regulatory bill. Again, this is congress trying to come up with something that people can see. Health care reform is the same way. It tried to address what people see, the health insurance, not the rotting core.
Don't worry GOP... nothing a little manipulation of poll numbers can't fix.
Operatives from both parties manipulate the numbers/statistics. It is just a matter of how crass they are in doing it.
The problem with having "skeletons in the closet" if you are a "conservative" is you won't make it past the liberal radar. Unlike Obama who has a willing "mainstream media" to cover his @ss, reminded of all the people who voted Obama into the Presidency, only to find out later of his racist minister and uni-bomber friends. Jesus Christ himself would not be able to pass the "anal exam", the media would put Him through, if he decided to run against Obama. Take Sarah Palin for example, the mainstream media and DNC, sent hundreds of reporters and private investigator(attack dogs) into Alaska. And then when they found dirt, they used all forms of media, to do a thoroughly sufficient character assassination. Typical thuggery from the "party that cares".
Have you ever considered why that portion of the media is labeled "mainstream?" Perhaps it is because the majority of Americans consider themselves "mainstream." They sample this segment for enlightenment in order to avoid the blatant biases of liberal and conservative extremes. It will take more than a well orchestrated litany of propaganda and talking points to be successful in 2012 ~ ~ at all political levels. Most of the issues in this year's campaign directly touch the lives of the average citizen who will be looking for substance over rhetoric.
Jesus Christ could not pass the tea-publican "litmus" test these days. He believed in taking care of the poor, the defenseless, the sick, the least among us; he believed in taking from the rich to provide for the poor--something republicans abhor today and dismiss as "entitlements".
Mruseurhead, that might just be the post of the day.
Jody, I think the difference might be that Christ urged providing for the less fortunate through charity, not government.
No chance the media is a tool to keep the two old boy parties as the only candidates. Nobody sees Obama attacked like Palin was though. Lots of controversy and nothing on the SECRET OBAMA. Shoot the messenger is now the job of selfimportant americans so some issues can be shut up. Send every journalist to Hawaii to get the answers about the long form inconsistancies. THEN you will convince me that the fourth estate is not in politicial pockets.
Good point Jody, no champagne and caviar world tours for just being a good man.
Hiheels postulates:
Jesus did not take from others.
Oh? Where did those loaves of bread and fish come from then for the multitudes? Did Jesus stop by the deli on the way over? And what did he do with them? He shared them with the hungry multitudes. Pretty democratic, if not downright socialist. If it were Paul Allan, he'd hand out a voucher worth about 5% of the cost of a modest lunch.
And how about that Last Supper? Did ol' Jesus stop by the local supermarket on the way to dinner for all the fixin's?
I'm not saying Jesus took from people, but he was certainly the beneficiary of other generous people.
Have a nice day
Really Hiheels?
Luke 22:35--And He said to them, "When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?" They said, "No, nothing."
Mark 6:8--And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no money, no bread, no money in their purse:
Matthew 10:9--Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Luke 10:4--He told them: "Take nothing for the journey--no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra tunic.
Luke 9:4--And if you go into a house, let that house be your resting-place till you go away.
There you have it--instructions from Jesus to his disciples (who had already given up all their worldly possessions to live off the kindness of those they met for YEARS) to continue depending on others for their maintenance, and likewise expecting society to support their work.
There's your Republican Jesus who never took from others. Society's obligation to the least among us flowed through his ministry from beginning to end.
The only thing that assassinated Sarah Palin's character was her own mouth, every time she opened it she proved she had no character. Character assassination, no way, that was a mercy killing.
Then those reporters are the ones I want sent to Hawaii, oh yeah, you failed to comment on King Obamas SECRETS!!! Keep up Grump that was not the topic. The topic was making Obama transparent as he pledged. The press foisted A photo, too gruesome to see, to back King Obamas unilateral decision too.
Now there are 15 photos!!!! And still only a select few viewers. Just like his secret long form BC. LOL.
On the religious side, the big oil companies aren't sharing much, we PAY and pay.
Separation of church and state is there for a reason. Body is body, soul is soul. But then, maybe the uber rich could do well with some human kindness. Not like they are lacking in these tough times.
If he can be impeached or un-elected, he is no King. Start there in your search for truth.
Pauls rubber stamp of the day, LOL
If he can be impeached or un-elected, he is no King.
JUST the facts m'am.
The Most Pathetic Attack of the Day:
Conservatives such as Fox News, the Daily Caller and Sarah Palin are criticizing the White House’s invitation to rapper Common for a poetry event over the purported vulgarity of his lyrics. Fox Nation, for instance, called Common a ‘vile rapper.’ But roughly half-a-year ago, Fox News had a different tone about Common. In an October 2010 report for FoxNews.com, reporter Jason Robinson interviewed the ‘rap legend’ and told him, ‘your music is very positive.’”
Others have debunked the silly outrage over Common's invite. The Huffington Post's Jason Linkins writes that Common is "not what I consider to be a 'gangsta rapper' or particularly prone to any of hip-hop's legendary excesses.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201105100018
FOX NOISE took the rapper lyrics out of context. What else is new?
http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/09/burn-a-bush-michelle-obama-invites-rapper-common-to-a-poetry-reading/
Fox & friends plus the conservatives must be so bored since President Obama got Osama Bin Laden because they really need to come up with better things to be outraged about.
Common is highly regarded as a very positive influence in the rap world and Chicago.
He is not about calling women bi*!ches or killing cops as Bill O'Reiley says. But then Again FOX LIES. The horror!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=S7B2VgRShew&feature=artistob&playnext=1&list=TLFnbS5Mrs3U8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i3_VuRyGEg
Fox brought the bogey man back too; none other than in the persona of Reverend Wright.
I will be so glad when 2012 get here so the Republican circus can leave town
Better yet , how about doing what Canada does and Drop Fox until they learn how to stop lying and report news.
Bev, Maybe they want a white redneck country singer singing a song about how great our country could be if only we could get Obama out of there.
But Tom, since "they" are not making up the guest or performers list, it doesn't much make a damn what "they" want, now does it? Let "them" hold their own poetry soiree with the white rednecks, if they can find enough sober ones to do the show.
Tom ,Yreka
Bev, Maybe they want a white redneck country singer singing a song about how great our country could be if only we could get Obama out of there.
True in addition to whipping up the flames of racism. No OTHER station does it better than FOX.
Back in 2003, First Lady Laura Bush was to hold a poetry evening, and she invited several poets to reprise the work of Emily Dickinson, Langston Hughes and Walt Whitman. Although none of those poets had urged violence against a president, Bush canceled the event after left-of-center poets protested and threatened to disrupt the event. Maybe that is why this is news?
Here are the entire Common lyrics. You decide if it is appropriate.
A Pome from Common
"Letter to the Law
Dem boy wanna talk… [indistinguishable]
Whatcha gon do if ya got one gun?
I sing a song for the hero unsung
with faces on the mural of the revolution
No looking back cos’ in back is what’s done
Tell the preacher, god got more than one son
Tell the law, my Uzi weighs a ton
I walk like a warrior,
from them I won’t run
On the streets, they try to beat us like a drum
In Cincinnati, another brother hung
A guinea won’t see the sun
with his family stung
They want us to hold justice
but you handed me none
The same they did to Kobe and Michael Jackson
make them the main attraction
Turn around and attack them
Black gem in the rough
You’re rugged enough
Use your mind and nine-power, get the government touch
Them boys chat-chat on how him pop gun
I got the black strap to make the cops run
They watching me, I’m watching them
Them [censored] boys got a lock of [censored] in them
My people on the block got a lot of pok* in them
and when we roll together
we be rocking them to sleep
No time for that, because there’s things to be done
Stay true to what I do so the youth dream come
from project building
Seeing a fiend being hung
With that happening, why they messing with Saddam?
Burn a Bush cos’ for peace he no push no button
Killing over oil and grease
no weapons of destruction
How can we follow a leader when this a corrupt one
The government’s a g-unit and they might buck young black people
Black people In the urban area one
I hold up a peace sign, but I carry a gun.
Peace, ya’ll.”
You see, RVZ, this is why people don't like you or your 'brand'. You are ALWAYS trying to foist upon others what YOU think they should be doing, as blatantly obvious from the snippet of your post above. If you don't like COMMON, fine. Don't listen to his music. COMMON is a grown-azzed man and can do what he likes, just like you are a grown-azzed man who is on here spouting his hatred and putrid vitroil for the world to see.
And this snippet is why no one really reads what you write because this one sentence has negated EVERYTHING that you were trying to convey.
So, I'll say it again - moving along, nothing to see here...
At least RVZ does not hide the fact that he is a bigot. The KKK has nothing on him.The difference is he would go after his own if they are poor.
RVZ.......sad excuse for a human.
Fletch and Pietro, time to step up and show us the positive message in the lyrics now, to prove you can do more than point and accuse. Otherwise, you are just badmouthing an opinion. Is Common the guy that rappeed about killing cops too? Great idea to make that point huh? Maybe artists should be left to art, and not used as a draw for voters. Fix some flaws.
Still humping my leg, huh Paul? LOL Nice to see you "instructing " me on a topic I have espoused so virulantly. You must be extra hard up for my attention.
Earnest Lee - I cannot - and will not - speak for Fletch (as he is AMPLY capable of doing that himself), but I CAN speak for myself. My problem with RVZ is that he is projecting what HE thinks COMMON should talk about. I say - BS. If you don't like what the man is saying, then turn it off. Stop listening. Buy something else.
It is not my job - nor my pervue - to 'show what is positive in those lyrics' because I did not write them. Like any consumer, I can choose to consume them - or not. You have a choice too, Earnest Lee, and you have made yours.
If the White House seems to feel that COMMON is worthy of being in a program concerning poetry, who are YOU to say that he is NOT?
In other not so minced words - mind your own business. Worry about YOU and STOP trying to think for ME.
What does my comment have to do with lyrics? Saddened, it really sad that all you do is troll to criticize. Get some reading and comprehension skills.
Maybe artists should be left to art, and not used as a draw for voters. In your narrow little mind, what voters are being drawn?
Pietro, it's her. Sorry if I misled.
It is a shame I can't block the sit and S//it pundits that only talk trash about peoples opinions but claim to never have to actually explain why they are calling people, and the opinions trash. Seems I have to explain to you why I should be allowed to have an opinion. Whoooooo you control my thoughts, huh Pietro? You defend some "artist" that justifies making claims in verse, that can not be discussed because the artist is of color. Shows your level of equality, Pietro.
Fletch thinks sophmoric ideas like chisling the penis off of all the statues is a bad idea so stop chiseling away a "super" stars right to insult people in verse. Common sense still prevails, in spite of your rhetoric. That jihad was written in a book, who are Americans to not lay down and die for it too?
Get a life you two can be proud of. Pretending to bitchslap people in a blog is sooo sad.
pietros is keeping to himself here,,,,,,,You see, RVZ, this is why people don't like you or your 'brand'. You are ALWAYS trying to foist upon others what YOU think they should be doing
Fletch bitchslaps my intelligence to prove she is right,,,,,,
Maybe artists should be left to art, and not used as a draw for voters. In your narrow little mind, what voters are being drawn? Talk about a narrow little insult, shall I count the times and people you use for your ego?
Last night on CNN, John King ran a story with the breathless headline: "President Booed in El Paso." Sounded pretty bad, so I stayed tuned past the commercial break to hear what happened.
It turned out that the crowd booed when Obama said "They [Republicans] wanted to build a border fence." That's it. That's all that happened. King then said it was "unclear" to him whether the crowd (of mostly Latinos) was booing the president or the fence. It was obvious to any impartial observe (which of course doesn't include John King) that the crowd was booing to show their dislike of the border fence.
I then switched immediately back to MSNBC, where you get liberal opinion, but at least opinion with some relationship to reality. If the Corporate News Network can't find anything real to attack Obama for, they'll just make stuff up.
Sounds like it was the Republicans who were booed, Houston!
CNN, a mere shaddow of its once unbiased and factual news. Now it works to be like both FOX and MSNBC and succeeds at neither. The best show beyond the daily news they provide is Fareed Zacharia's GPS on Sundays, and it is a good one.
RVZ555
And why do you assume a crowd of Hispanics are illegal aliens? Couldn't be that you're a bigot and a racist, could it?
The world according to RVZ - Really Vile Zealot - thinking that all people that are NOT like him are 'illegal aliens' and that they don't work.
You GOTTA love that. Just when you think RVZ couldn't be any DUMBER, we have this.
RVZ, here's your SIGN.
Look at what a common sense politician did for Wisconsin. We need more people like Scott Walker who are more concerned about doing what is right than worrying about being re-elected! VOTE FOR COMMON SENSE IN 2012
Good morning Snake-in-the-Grass!
Who's worried about getting re-elected?
Good old Walker, the guy who is selling out the middle class. That choice is not common sense.
Walker isn't doing what is right UAW. Walker is just an idiot. At least he'll just be a one year idiot Governor.
Really? He's an idiot? Then why is the business climate in the state improving? And why are we projected to have a budget surplus at the end of the current biennium instead of the $138M deficit (or whatever the number was) that Doyle left us with?
\http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4my9XoKnFA&feature=youtu.be
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-11/wisconsin-borrowing-costs-plunge-from-january-sale-municipal-credit.html
May God continue to bless Wisconsin with this "horrible" governor for years to come. Its about damned time we start to see improvements.
Improvements?? LOL...you talking about the recalls?
No, smartas$$, I'm talking about the 2 links I referenced. WI's business environment making major gains among the 50 states and our cost of borrowing plummeting. What's bad about that?
If working as a slave with no benefits is the right thing for America in your and Walkers eyes than I know a lot of 5th graders smarter than you two.
Here in the Bible belt, Newt can pray all he wants, but will not be given 3 chances to say he is sorry for his wife running around.
Speaking of praying, I am praying the ongoing book tours of the Morning Joe crew is about up- enough!
HiHeels. That news just bit the dust; it isn't happening and the chaplain who wrote the memo suggesting it just wrote a memo saying it is not.
LOl..."all the media is liberal"? (ooohhh...and "atheist" too!) Well, I'm sure your boy Rupert is doing everything humanly possible to make sure his modest little operations can compete with those big, bad media outlets that he doesn't control (just yet).
You are clueless about what I read--and I read original news reporting, not rehashed opinion that simply echos back to me what I already know (Media Matters). Try the WSJ if you onlyl like conservative outlets...at least they still know how to report and generate their own stuff (
Dear Mexicans, Please leave the same way you got here.
Please employers of illegal mexicans(you missed that) please stop employing Illegal mexicans so you can stop exploitinig them for cheap labor.
See if people don't give them illegal jobs they won't come.
As an O-4 I would think you are educated enough to know this.
I need my lawns mowed, my cars washed, and my kids looked after.
The outrage Americans feel toward illegal Mexican immigrants would be better served by being directed to American companies that choose to ship their manufacturing operation to China. Our trade imbalance is far more damaging to our economy by draining half a trillion dollars or more out of the economy annually.
Then again, if your worry is that America is becoming less white, then being outraged at all the new non-white immigrants is well directed. I suspect that the real GOP outrage is the latter. It is not a good demographic change for the Republican Party.
GVC, stop waving that RACIST FLAG!!! Debate ILLEGAL!!! America sends jobs to Mexico, and Mexicans people come here anyway, illegally. Fix that!!! Tax payers help America, wetbacks help the people breaking laws and penguin get rich and avoid paying taxes that America needs. Maybe if we force illegals to be citizens and pay their fair share, the immigration would stop. Americans wouldn't pay the taxes. I for one am tired of making America a nation of races, if we are Americans, be Americans first and foremost.
GVC, stop waving that RACIST FLAG
I for one am tired of making America a nation of races,......YET....wetbacks help the people breaking laws and penguin get rich and avoid paying taxes that America needs...
Fletch, go read OLD and NEW Paul, my last stalker with an address for a last name. Haunt someone that gives a damn about your brow beating waste of space innuendo and insults. Make a point other than direct and indirect allusions to my intelligence. When is your idea to fix it coming?
if they are like Rubio it is.
Understatement of the year: "Flawed candidates have gone on to win the White House"
Anyone know of a perfect human being?
I know a human being that has to answer to the people that hire him does a damn good job at being perfect, too bad Obama doesn't have to answer to us, nor did any other POTUS, as America got shredded down to this insolvant state. Care to suggest a fix?
What is so great about Newt Gingrich is that while he was blasting Clinton about Monica Lewinsky, Newt was having and affair with his own intern.
Gingrich is the perfect candidate to lead "dumb FUX NEWS nation"(formerly known as the Republican Party).
Funny how dumb FUX wonder what has gone wrong in this country and see no correlation to the dominance of Republicans from 1996 to 2008 and the sad state of our nation...
What's more astounding is Newt claiming on a religious TV show that the reason he had the affair was because he loved his coutry so much and was working so hard--and the republicans and sometimes the media tell us that Newt is brilliant.
37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 10:37
Disabled, sounds like a selfish god.
All GOP candidates are the same, they're all Greedy Old Prostitutes, willing to sell the country down the river for the interests of big corporations. They're latest ploy - getting rid of Social Security and Medicare.
Remember the summer of 2010? The Republicans were running around claiming that Obama was going to set up death panels to pull the plug on grandman. Remember all the signs at Tea Party rallies that said, "Hands off my Medicare."
Now guess what? The GOP wants to shut down Medicare and Social Security. They are demonizing grandma as some sort of welfare cheat who's stealing from innocent children. Never mind that grandma paid money into Social Security and Medicare. Never mind that Social Security and Medicare are really grandma's money, and the GOP wants to steal grandma's money so they can give their corporate sponsores another tax break.
The GOP is lying to the public. Social Security and Medicare is only one example of the manipulation and mass deception that's going on. The real issue is which candidate can lie most convincingly and con the majority of the people. They think Americans are stupid.
It's time for America to prove that the GOP is wrong.
should of never been started to begin with, like all government programs they fail, time for you to take care of an elderly parent rather than me joe taxpayer doing the job for you. vote tea party were taking america back!
don't ever come to me for help lardballer. i'll see to it your fat ass ends up on the street.
Hispanics are more aligned with Conservatives and Conservative values:
1) Democrats ridicule Christians, anyone religious -- most Hispanics are Catholic;
2) Democrats don't share traditional family values -- most Hispanics have very strong family values; with 2-parent families
3) Democrats hate our freemarket system -- most Hispanics come to this country for our freemarket system, so they can be successful
4) Democrats despise business and anyone who's successful - most Hispanics are
very entrepreneural and tend to start their own businesses
Etc., etc.
They also love being used as slave labor by shady republican business owners.
Sounds like you got that little talking point from Fox (aka the republican teabagger network).
Republicans passing judgment on anyone is a laugh ~ and comparing themselves to Hispanics is an insult of the highest order to Hispanics. Most Hispanics live their values while Republicans only talk about them and trot them out when it is politically expedient.
I see you people feed Paul. LOL
different Paul, you sad dumbass.
Nice pack of lies paul (not you Paul), and all of it designed to distract from the one thing that overrides all else--Conservatives tend to see Latinos they don't know personally overwhelmingly as scary brown "others" who don't belong in the United States.
>>>different Paul, you sad dumbass<<< LOL How can anyone tell? John must back my stalker though.
>>> different Paul, you sad dumbass<<<
LOL How can I tell? You spew rhetoric without a single fact, just like the other Paul that John distances from the insult that looks like a RACIST opinionated comment leveled at an entire political party.
This is my brother paul and this is my other brother paul
The address club, brothers under the numbers. You say so much about yourselves as you attempt to inflict your insults and attitude on me. Go walk in small circles. Bros
Donald Trump is trying to build "street cred" with the black community, by capitalizing on the name recognition of Tupac Shakur. His advisors are market testing some hip hop names for the Donald such as: Toupee Forsur, and Bulcrap Devour. For good measure he is changing the comb over, and going with cornrows.
Now Trump will try to sound like a rapper and say "Trump be the man" "I'm proud of da Trump" But we will still say " Trump is da Fool"