Would those states get to collect all the taxes that would normally go to the federal government?

It's funny because the GOP/TP live in a world where absolute inaction helps people.

"You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
"-Lyndon B. Johnson

Or how much propaganda is used to tout the benifits.

Maybe the Dems should have thought of that when they passed The Unafordable Care and Unaccountabilty Act, or the Financial Deform Bill.

I would rathor have them passing nothing, than more legislation that will do more harm to our country.

What happens when US debt exceeds $30 Trillion, is downgraded to ccc- and the credit dries up?

What happens when our kids can only hope for Walmart and McJObs when th GOP guts education, worker retraining and job skills building through rebuilding America's infrastructure?

Madison, why do you want America to be in a race to the economic bottom? Why do you want us to work for 1/2 of our worth? Why do you want to gut safety regulations for profit when they can injure or kill the consumer? Why do you want coprporate tax brteaks for ioutsourcers and imported foreign labor?

Why do your kind hate America, MAdison?

Madison, Congress will pay for the jobs plan by:

Imposing new limits on itemized deductions for those who earn more than $200,000 a year and families earning more than $250,000. Getting rid of those deductions will bring in $400 BILLION in revenue. Ending subsidies for oil and gas companies and mofications to depreciation rules for corporate airplanes:

Such a tax package would raise $467 BILLION, more than enough to pay for the new jobs bill.

That's gives you a hint how much we've been losing out to the $$Me-Me-MeMe-ers for over a decade.

PASS THIS JOBS BILL! PUT AMERICANS BACK TO WORK!

The President of the United States laid out a plan to help the economy. Since the Congress will not act - the President is proposing action for them. That is not the President's job. It is a sorry state of affairs when the President of the United States must attempt to shame the Congress into addressing the economy when unemployment is so high and there are signs of a possible recession.

Congress now has some choices to make. Inaction is NOT a choice - that is just a retread of how Congress has done business in the past - more of the status quo. Inaction is just more of the same ...

1. Are tax deductions for fake charities to protect large incomes more important than tax cuts for workers with small incomes?
2. Are tax cuts for hedge fund managers more important than tax cuts for companies that employ people?
3. Are subsidies for big business (corporate welfare) more important than repairing schools, roads, and bridges?
4. Are tax deductions for corporate jet buyers more important than investments in small businesses?

Somehow the argument that the tax cuts will harm entitlements are not believable from those that want to eliminate government entitlements. Support government entitlements or oppose them? Which argument is the truth and which argument is the lie?

Congress could just spend money and add to the deficit - even tax cuts are spending and adds to the deficit. That is not what the President is proposing - his proposal is paid for.

Congress could just cut spending - they got $20 billion in cuts next year. Some describe that as only $20 billion. What they won't tell you is that $20 billion is a 5% cut in non-defense discretionary spending. A $100 billion budget reduction would be a 25% cut in non-defense discretionary spending.

If you argue that tax cuts actually increase revenue - then why oppose the American Jobs Act and why worry about the deficit? By that logic, this plan helps balance the budget.

So, Congress has a choice - support Wall Street business - or - Main Street workers. That is the debate. Now stand up, be counted, and choose - Wall Street or Main Street. America is watching ...

Yes, that's what Madison appears to want. Probably an Ayn Rand disciple - espousing an oligarchy...

I'm on page 24 of the American Jobs Act, it's a hard read. I read page 155 where the Act would add $0.5 trillion to the "Trigger". I haven't read yet how a single job is guaranteed to be produced. This smells like a Tarp deal. What if the money evaporates and no jobs?

We need to decide a dollar investment per job ratio. $100K per job? $200K?

Once we figure that out, then put into the Act guarantees the money will actually produce permanent jobs at this rate.

We do not need to blow another half trillion and get net ZERO jobs.

They want to wait to raise revenue until they are in the white house, thats all.

The President said that the bill would be paid for. It seems the GOP is going to protect the rich, and not help those that aren't working. Get the word out.

Vote the GOP/Tea Party down in 2012 !

What happens when our kids can only hope for Walmart and McJObs when th GOP guts education, worker retraining and job skills building through rebuilding America's infrastructure?

We're already #1 in education spending and #23 in test scores. At least its a short slide down to the bottom at this point.

What did you all expect these GOP clowns to say, all these MORONS just sit around joking about how FU_KED up they are making our country, and to think We pay these POS's to actually work, if you don't like it VOTE them out in 2012 ...

by Tom Friedman

Now let me say that in English: the European Union is cracking up. The Arab world is cracking up. China’s growth model is under pressure and America’s credit-driven capitalist model has suffered a warning heart attack and needs a total rethink. Recasting any one of these alone would be huge. Doing all four at once — when the world has never been more interconnected — is mind-boggling. We are again “present at the creation” — but of what?
Let’s start with the Middle East, the world’s oil tap. Libyans just joined Tunisians, Egyptians and Yemenis in ousting their dictator, while Syrians and Iranians hope to soon follow suit. In time, virtually every Middle East autocrat will be deposed or forced to share power. The old model can’t hold. That model was based on kings and military dictators capturing the oil revenue, ensconcing themselves in power — protected by well-financed armies and security services — and buying off key segments of their populations. That lid has been blown off by an Arab youth bulge that today can see just how everyone else is living and is no longer ready to accept being behind, undereducated, unemployed, humiliated and powerless. But while this old Middle East system — based on an iron fist and a fistful of petro-dollars holding together multiethnic/multireligious societies — has broken down, it will take time for these societies to write their own social contracts for how to live together without an iron fist from above. Hope for the best, prepare for anything.
Farther north, it was a nice idea, this European Union and euro-zone: Let’s have a monetary union and a common currency but let everyone run their own fiscal policy, as long as they swear to work and save like Germans. Alas, it was too good to be true. Large government welfare programs in some European countries, without the revenue to finance them from local production, eventually led to a piling up of sovereign debt — mostly owed to European banks — and then a lender revolt. The producer-savers in northern Europe are now drawing up a new deal with the overspenders — the PIIGS: Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain. It is unlikely that the Germans would just break out of the European Union, since a good chunk of their exports go to those overspending, uncompetitive countries. Instead, the northern Europeans are trying to force stronger, rule-based discipline on the PIIGS. But how much more austerity can these countries absorb, especially if there are further social stresses from deeper recessions? More than Londoners will take to the streets. One way or another, the European Union is going to get smaller or tighter, but in the process it could go through a chaotic, world-shaking transition that is not priced into the market yet.
Going East, China has been relying on a model built on a deliberately undervalued currency and export-led growth, with low domestic consumption and high savings. This has allowed the Communist Party to sustain a unique bargain with its people: We give you jobs and rising standards of living, and you give us power. This bargain is now under threat. Persistent unemployment in China’s American and European markets is making Beijing’s undervalued-currency/low-consumption/high-export model less sustainable for the world. China also has to get rich before it gets old. It has to move from two parents saving for one kid, to one kid paying for the retirement of two parents. To do that, it has to move from an assembly-copying-manufacturing economy to a knowledge-services-innovation economy. This requires more freedom and rule of law, and you can already see mounting demands for it. Something has to give there.
As for America, we’ve thrived in recent decades with a credit-consumption-led economy, whereby we maintained a middle class by using more steroids (easy credit, subprime mortgages and construction work) and less muscle-building (education, skill-building and innovation). It’s put us in a deep hole, and the only way to dig out now is a new, hybrid politics that mixes spending cuts, tax increases, tax reform and investments in infrastructure, education, research and production. But that mix is not the agenda of either party. Either our two parties find a way to collaborate in the center around this new hybrid politics, or a third party is going to emerge — or we’re stuck and the pain will just get worse.

Oh, by the way how is this working out for all the Republican unemployed out there, do you really think your idols are helping you ..... LOL LOL LOL

Eric, is it better to give a man a fish and feed him for the night or teach a man to fish and feed him for a life time. Jesus

Tim, Seattle,

Exactly. The Repubs/TP have nothing to offer. All they can do is Bash Obama and that's exactly what they say they are going to continue to do. The only solution they can come up with is the same old crap. Cut entitlements. They are digging a deep, deep hole for themselves and this country is going to throw them all in it come election time.

Wlee, is it better to give the rich more money, at the expense of getting more people jobs?

Here's my revenue raising suggestion...STOP FOREIGN AID!

Stop sending our tax dollars to foreign countries when they are needed here first!

Brainb999431,

Please enlighten us and make our day by providing us with the Republican jobs plan. We're waiting........

All the liberals are supporting a bill that they have not even read. The head line should read"Tax the rich and Spend Spend Spend." Obama is kicking the can down the road to pay for this mess. He wants the super committee to come up with additional cuts, cuts that will be made over 10 years. Buy now pay later, it has become the Ameircan way under Obama.

why are there no comments on taxing the 51% of Americans that pay NOTHING???????

Are the the me, me, me, me, me?????

The only snag with Obama's Jobs Bill was that it was three to five times TOO SMALL. Sadly the Republican reaction was predictable. One can only hope that they lose sufficient seats in both Houses in 2012 that saner policies (beyond wrecking everything in an insane attempt to make Obama a one term president) will emerge from the party once it has overdosed on TP - prune juice.

BAGGERS make the Repubs not credible. I want my conservative Republican party back, now. Not this group of ANTI-military, ANTI-job, BIG GOVERNMENT BAGGER party. The PETA of the Repubs.

Good job, Baggers. You are the crazed people you pretend to hate, and get crycry angry about. BOO HOO, you new spoilt brats. Don't blame the Demheads for what you NOW are.

They would refuse to pass this because the jobs it creates are "temporary"? Temporary jobs are better than no jobs. Maybe the rest of the economy would improve by the time the tax revenue from the temporary jobs gets through the system.

You are either a liberal that wants a pushover or a Republican that has no clue of which he speaks.

Backhouse, Did you forget to read the part where the SPENDING of $400 billion occurs in a year, but the COLLECTION of the $400 billion in increased taxes takes a decade??? What do we do when Obama wants to spend another $400 billion next month? At what point does it end?

Quit the party hacking and weigh the fine points of the plan:

1. Tax increases for $200k singles/$250k couples. Yep you'll get more taxes from them, but in many urban areas that $250k may make a nice lifestyle with a lot of liabilities. Try to buy a house in Alexandria VA for under $500k and still get to work on time in the DC area- not easy. So you are now paying multiple thousands a month to have a place to live and not likely near your job. Add transportation costs, high local taxes, high food/entertainment prices due to the city living, high state taxes, etc. and you can swallow up $200-250k for a family/year. I'm not even getting started on small business owners whom carry their business expenses through their personal income taxes, that's worse.

2. Take away tax incentives for charity contributions. This is going to lead to less folks, just face it. Which is worst- $1m in donations to a charity or hospital and used as a tax deduction or $250k in donations because the rest is going towards their taxes? I'd gladly give them the tax break on charity and worry about the money elsewhere.

3. Reduction to Social Security taxes taken out of your paycheck. Yaymore money today, but what about that enormous hole in social security contributions vs. payouts? The system is accelerating towards default, so the less you feed into it the faster it will fail. I guess there's nothing to worry about there. It used to default in 2037, then 2030, and we're reeling it in faster and faster with the "boomers" coming online too. BTW- It is a Ponzi Scheme/fraud as you are forced by the federal government to pay into a system that takes about 10 people to pay for 1 person's benefits. Then those 10 people need 100 people to prop up their payments, etc. That's fraud folks. Not to forget that the average person contributes about $42,000 over their working lives and takes about $420,000 on average in payments. Doesn't add up, does it?

So, does the new "jobs" act work- work well? Well, sure if you don't pay taxes, make any charity contributions, own a business, or are currently accepting social security checks. It's mighty fine then. If you have a long time to get to retirement, have a home in an expensive area, or use some contributions against your taxes- not so good. Also, notice that the government doesn't really cut anything in this new income model?? They are using permanent new taxes to cut some short term gaps in funding. Wonder what they'll do with the money "when they don't need it anymore". Something tells me that there will never be a temporary need with this new money.

The GOP, proudly keeping our country weak and bankrupt. What a bunch of patriots.

Interesting that removing tax loopholes and deductions is now called "skyrocketing taxes". So much for the argument that everyone will pay their fair share. God forbid we actually make the rich pay their rate... no, we have to protect their right to pay a smaller percentage of taxes than the poor.

why are there no comments on taxing the 51% of Americans that pay NOTHING???????

When you figure out a way to tax the income of the unemployed, beyond the current sales tax they already pay, let us know.

Ending govt subsidies on gas and oil will create higher prices for gas at teh pump. Who will be more affected by this? The poor or the rich?

Thanks Obama for hurting the poor with that idea.

If Obama is for jobs creation, why is his justice dept filed suit against Boeing preventing them from building a new assembly plant in South Carolina? That would create thousands of jobs.

Thanks for keeping people out of work Obama.

As pointed out by some others that have really read the "bill" Obama sent, this is almost word for word the same proposal he sent to congress back in 2009 when his party controlled both the house and senate and they were smart enough to know it would not work then.

What makes Obama think he has a chance of making it work now?

Of course there are the people out in the population that feel Obama can do no wrong, but as pointed out by many, you are just adding to debt if you spend billions this year and do not pay for it in this year.

And let me remind those same people that if you raised taxes on everyone to the same levels that the "rich" currently pay, everyone would hang the government. But these people still think it is alright to raise the taxes even more.

Most reasonable people would like to see tax reform, that eliminates "ALL" current deductions and loopholes and lowers tax rates to everyone to a uniform level. However, that would also mean that the 50% of people that pay NO taxes today would now have to pay taxes and because of that Democrats will never allow tax reform that is meaningful to take place.

All of you who are planning on blaming the GOP for not passing this jobs bill, I wonder if any of you read the last part of the article that says he introduced the same bill when the Dems controlled both the House and Senate and he still couldn't get it passed. He's only trying to put this failure of a bill through so that he can blame the GOP when it doesn't make it. Great Campaign move! For the record, I am a democrat who would absolutely hate to have to vote republican, but if the Dems don't give me another option before election day, I really won't have much of a choice. NObama couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag!! Can we finally get someone in office with EXPERIENCE!!

This Republican has had it up to here with these morons and their refusal to rein in big oil and big companies. But what really rankles me is that nobody, not Democrats, the President, Congress, or Republicans is doing a got-dam thing about the housing market and the banks refusals to lighten up on folks so we can get this country moving again. I already told the Republican Senatorial Campaign they are not getting a dam dime from me ever again until they become more conciliatory and work with our fellow citizens in Congress. We all need to "Just say no" to campaign contributions until things change.

This jobs bill act is nothing but political posturing from the White House. This was put in front of a Republican House that would never pass this. The White House will attempt to pin the stalled out economy on the Republicans because they would not work with the Dems. Shoe fits on both feet Mr President. I appreciate the Republicans standing against this White House. This presidency has been a failure from the begining.

Listen the CBO which most Republicans used to use as their bible source says that the Stimulus bill created between 1.3MM and 3MM jobs. That's more jobs then GWB created in his eight years and in fact hat was when Obama was naive enough to believe he should include tax cuts to appease the Republicans. This is the choice and it is as plain as the nose on any ones' face that our country is crumbling. I don't care if it's union or non-union jobs that are created, just create some jobs or shut up. If all you can do is cut programs that are politically advantageous for your party, then you truly are the blood sucking leeches that should be thrown in jail. CAUSE that's all of our money up there not just yours!

John Haddock - ever look at the map for where fault lines are located in the US?

The terrorists thought if they brought down the twin trade towers they would ruin us economically. That didn't work so they got somebody in Washington to do their dirty work. Obama will have us on our knees facing Mecca before very long.

and the Republicans think this is going to drive mainstream America to vote for any of them in 2012? ok...crazy, radical bible twisting Perry, got my vote...no , I mean Mormon corporations are people like me Romney, got my vote...no, I mean batty TP Bachman got my vote...noooo, i mean (banging head against wall)...Obama 2012! whew

You go Rick - 3608### - Tell it like it is... it's all the republicans fault. You fall in line with every other liberal out there. I'm extremely glad your ideology only represents 24% of the country. Do you ever objectively look at what the democrats have done or are doing to this country? Or are so blinded by your own personal ideology to ignore any of the wrongs they have done? Just curious... how come when democrats controlled the senate the house and the White House didn't they do anything to correct those things you are so fond of? Are the democrats powerless even when they control all the legislative branches? Is it they are powerless or inedpt?

"permanent tax increases ... to pay for temporary spending,"

Sounds like a good way to increase jobs and decrease the deficit to me.

newly-indpendent

since whne did unemployment reach 51%?

James

Most reasonable people would like to see tax reform, that eliminates "ALL" current deductions and loopholes and lowers tax rates to everyone to a uniform level. However, that would also mean that the 50% of people that pay NO taxes today would now have to pay taxes and because of that Democrats will never allow tax reform that is meaningful to take place.

First, the current Republicans are against eliminated all deductions and loopholes because they view that as a tax increase. Right now, the top 2% pay a smaller percentage than everyone else. If you think they would be willing to pay their fair share, you are believing a lie.

Second, of the 50% that pay "NO taxes", about half of those are unemployed. So tell me, James, how do you tax the income of the unemployed? The other half make less than 22k per year. In fact, in total the working half only has $1.4 trillion in assets (not income, assets). If we were to seize half of their assets, that would only amount to $700 billion... the exact amount that a 3% increase on the top 2% would be, and the GOP has already stated that the 3% increase is not enough to "scratch the surface".

So James, what do you propose we do with the 50% that don't pay? Shall we just seize the assets of them all? The unemployed don't have income to tax, so should we just start taking their stuff? And the half that do have jobs, they don't make enough... should we take 75% of what they own? How about 100%? Even then, how far will $1.4 trillion get us? Oh, I know... how about we pay for a jobs bill by taking everything the poor own. What do you think about that idea? That way the rich get to keep their tax deductions and they will not have to pay 3% more.

cherrytom-

According to your Fox News, the real unemployment number is around 25%. So, out of the 50% that do not pay taxes, HALF of them are unemployed. Obviously you have a problem with all of the 50% not paying taxes, including the unemployed half, so how should we tax them?

Or would you like to change your argument to say "25% of the population do not pay taxes" (25% representing the employed half of 50%)

eric, i agree this whole tax cut for the rich is a bunch of garbage, but Obama's plan is only a temporary fix at best or a complete bust as the first stimulus.

Most of the country is on to you in spite of what the polls say

I believe the term is willful ignorance.

Clearly this is not a jobs bill. This is a bill intended primarily to place blame on the right and enhance Obamas odds of getting reelected. The only chance in hell he has of accomplishing that is to somehow make the republicans look even worse than himself. Making republicans look bad is not so hard in and of itself but making them look worse than our current POTUS is going to take some real work. The stimulus was a failure, a smaller one will fail also. Obama realizes this but doesn't have to worry about it because he knows the republicans aren't stupid and won't pass it. The idiots are the ones who are going to believe him when he says the republicans don't want to create jobs when they toss this garbage into the trash where it belongs.

I've never seen a more anti-military group in the Republican Party than the current baggers. And I don't mean that they aren't mean spirited murderes, I mean they are as against the military establishment as the draft dodgers were in the Vietnam war. They put their agenda ahead of the military and ahead of the country. Nicely done, not.

Both democrats and republicans are voting this clowns spend, spend, spend ideas, down, down, down!!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!! Hey obama, your gonna need the number for allied movers come 2012. The only support you have left is the parrot bloggers out here that want to adopt you!!! ROFLMAO AGAIN!!!!!!!!

"The Democratic-controlled House and Senate had chosen to not pass these measures in 2009"

More Democrats on the shelves in 2012! People know, the polls tell, Obama's ratings are going down, congress raitings are rock bottom. One thing is for sure, Obama will not be re-elected. Better get Hillary to run in a primary quick! As for Congress, well that is up for grabs, my bet is the Republicans gain control of Senate too.

Wlee the first stimulus worked and got the economy growing. Look at any GDP graph.

We need jobs now not later.

Sounds like Tim in Seattle is angry again today. Nothing like an angry liberal to spark up the boards.

Yeah, Im angry. the GOP has no plan for jobs. You can say that many American voters in addition to myself want solutions and the GOP are offerring none. WHERE IS THE GOP JOBS PLAN?

I keep asking for a plan and the GOP doesnt have one and the Teabaggers dont care. You can hate on the President's plan all you want...but he has one and he is trying to sell it. Where is YOUR plan?

Convincing voters that doing nothing and pursuing the always-failed 'corporate tax breaks will trickle down' angle. No one is buying that beyond the GOP Primary circle jerk. The president is out selling a plan that will create jobs. What is the GOP going to sell to the unemployed?

-Cut off their Unemployment (they are lazy)

-Kill Unions (because we should all be paid as little as legally possible with as little benefits as possible

-Give corporations more tax breaks

-Kill Medicare

Where are the JOBS going to come from if these are the tenets of your ideas?

If we can only de-regulate safety and fair wages, we too can aspire to be India and China....2 countries with a 1% Wealthy segment and 99% poor while polluting the planet, producing poison products and paying teir people slave wages with 670 hour weeks. Is that where you want to take the Ameruican worker, Brian? SDound like it to me.

So yes, that makes me angry that you would do nothing to help unem,ployed Americans or Veterans.

Ah yes, the tried and true "@!$%# your jobs, I want another tax cut" strategy.

Ask harry ried where the GOP job plans are. He keeps pushing them off his desk.

Wow Derek - pull your head out. You sound like a complete idiot.

I can't respond honestly. The community is on a "collapse" frenzy.

Thought and opinion police!

James:

[However, that would also mean that the 50% of people that pay NO taxes...]

Wherever you got this little tidbit from is lying to you...unless you already know it is a lie, and you are perpetuating that lie...either way, it's simply not true.

There is a percentage that does not pay any federal income tax and that number fluctuates based upon who you hear it from. It has been posted on these very boards that the number is as low as 45%, and as high as 55%. Either way, your statement as posted is FALSE.

The reason that those Americans do not pay any federal income tax is due to the fact that they are living at or below the poverty level. To say that these Americans "pay NO taxes" is false because these Americans pay taxes in other forms...state taxes, payroll taxes (if they are lucky enough to have a job), and various other local taxes.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

While we are most certainly entitled to our own opinions, we are most certainly NOT entitled to our own facts.

I am shocked, shocked I tell you. After the effort this President put forth, working day and night for a whole month, then having to schedule and reschedule his presentation to Congress. To have all of that effort dismissed by the Republican Party is just absolutely shocking. I can't believe it. Its like they don't even care about America. Its like all they want is to be reelected and to take over the entire government.

newly independent - unemployment bennies are taxed at both the federal and state levels, so goes your argument of half the people who pay no taxes are unemployed. Now if you wanted to take into account the earned income tax credit and deductables for mortgage interest, lots of dependents among other things maybe. just maybe your conclusions would be right.

Since the number of Americans paying no income taxes has been close to 50% for years (even before the great recession) I would rather say that someone is using you as a schill and a fool. You really need to get out more and stop believing in fox news.

BTW - the following links contain IRS data on the income groups that pay taxes and the % of income tax revenue collected.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

This ultimately boils down to one simple fight:

"Obama vs. The Norquist Pledge".

And if House republicans stand behind that pledge, and in the way of the American people and the jobs they desperately need, they'll see every gain they made in the 2010 midterm elections wiped out 3-fold in a landslide in the next election.

People aren't buying the debt and deficit bullsh!t anymore, because most people now believe the right messages:

Revenue = debt and deficit reduction, and "job creators" has a whole different meaning for the GOPTards.

This isn't hard to figure out. Its a simple choice:

The Obama Jobs plan:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/64723281/American-Jobs-Act

or:

The GOP plan of doing the same old sh!t we've done for the last 30 years:

http://www.gop.gov/resources/library/documents/jobs/theplan.pdf

I think the motives between them are pretty obvious. Obama wants to further his alternative agenda (which isn't an inherently "bad" thing). The GOP wants to "repatriate" Corporate America's $2.4trillion of profit sitting in offshore tax havens, under the premise of "job creation" (we did that already back in 2004, and these "job creators" didn't create jack sh!t... they pocketed the cash).

So yeah. Its Obama vs. The Norquist Pledge. And this time, the economy is already in the crapper, the debt ceiling is out of the picture until 2013, and unless the GOP creates some new "manufactured crisis", everyone will see right through the House republican agenda of defending high-value tax breaks.

american-2051576,

Typical right-wing nonsense.

All you GOPTards posting here act like you actually know what the hell you're talking about, and act like you somehow qualify for all or any of these listed deductions or loopholes yourselves.

But NONE of you know Jack Sh!t other than FOX Noise talking points, because you can't think for yourselves.

You spew this "47% pay no taxes" bullsh!t line, while remaining completely oblivious to the reason why, because you're either too stupid or lazy to go look things up for youselves. You bought the computers you use to blog about sh!t you know absolutely nothing about, or play video games, instead of using it as the powerful information accessibility and learning tool that it really is.

So let me lay this out for you:

We have a "progressive" federal tax code. Which means you pay taxes based upon total income, and that total income determines which "rate bracket" you belong in.

Heres the REAL deal..... if you make such a low income that you end up earning tax credits that exceed what you would have to pay and get a refund, you qualified for them because.....
.
.
.
wait for it.....
.
.
.
.
.
You're too friggin' POOR to pay anything to the federal government, and you actually NEED that refund just to survive.

The other thing these idiots try to pass off, is that somehow, as if by magic, or voodoo, or for some other mysterious reasons, state, Medicare, Social Security, property, school, sales, fuel, and other taxes no longer "count" as taxes. WTF?

LOL.... You can get back to your video game now.

eric-913... - if the 2009 stimulas worked so well, why doesn't todays GDP, job growth and unemployment reflect this?

Current government supplied GDP data for the first half of 2011 is as follows...

Real gross domestic product -- the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States -- increased at an annual rate of 1.0 percent in the second quarter of 2011, (that is, from the first quarter to the second quarter), according to the "second" estimate released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the first quarter, real GDP increased 0.4 percent.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

Live all you want to in the past, just don't ask the rest of us to.

BTW - current unemployment is at 9.1% as job growth in aug 2011 was pathetic. Yepper obama and company did a marvelous job in 2009 and 2010 to get us to this point in time. With the exception of the payroll tax cuts (not included in the original 2009 stimulas), it seems that all obama and company want to do is revisit us with what didn't work in 2009.

Wonder why obama said that ~$450 billion in spending cuts were available to pay for this, but that now he wants the wealthy to pay once again just a little more.

At the number of programs obama wants the top 2% to keep on paying "just a little more" for the top 2% just may become part of the 50% not having to pay income taxes. lol!

I still think we need to manufacture more and export more. Pay corporations, if needed to get them on board , to build factories within the states. Service jobs can only take you so far. At the end of the day you are still gonna need a bed to sleep on and someone has to make it. Why not just make it for ourselves.

Hi Newly-Independent,

No matter where we meet you get it all wrong. The tax, if you want to call it that, that the unemployed are paying over and above the sales taxes they pay are embedded in everything else they do. Like excise taxes for energy or gas. Like property taxes either directly or in the rent. But how about this "tax"? How about not having a job as a tax for the policies that people like you have favored year in and out?

Could it be, and I say this knowing my answer, that all the regulations you want, like on the environment, banking, legal notifications, whatever, that some of the firms that used to employ those people you now think pay no taxes fired them in part as a consequence to the costs of all the good you intended to do? Complex sentence, sorry. But the point is that the unemployed are paying the most costly tax to them--they lost their jobs--so that you could attempt to create the worker's paradise you imagine exists after that next beautiful law is passed.

American-2051576

ok 1st off the people getting unemployment Benefits are taxed but, they get all that back and then some on their return. so they really are not paying tax and infact taking money out of the system. they max in my state is around $19,000.00 a year in UEB hard hard to wright on that and get it all back. it is around

$2243.00 in tax as head of house hold which after you claim yourself , and the rest your getting every dime back.

american-2051576,

you fail to address the underlying causes. Here's some charts to help you get a clue:

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-gap-between-the-top-1-and-everyone-else-hasnt-been-this-bad-since-the-roaring-twenties-1

Then there's this of course:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/08/obamas-2009-stimulus-is-still-boosting-jobs/1

And this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/opinion/the-new-resentment-of-the-poor.html?_r=1

Clue: the last link is the GOP kool-aid you've been drinking far too much of. Put down the glass.

Alan o - It appears that in your adventurouis spirit of trying to shoot me down you have shown your inability to understand what a "deductable" is or what the earned income tax credit is or how it works when it comes to income taxes. We are talking income taxes here, not sales tax, not excise tax or any other non income related tax, just income tax. Perhaps in your zeal you missed this rather fine point of my post.

Perhaps you need to do an internet search on how deductables and the earned income tax credit works. While you are at it feel free to do a search on all the links that support ~50% pay no income taxes. If after doing this, you still fail to understand how this can occur, then it is not that you are ignorant, but that you are the new poster child for the SIASD club and obviously not even close to having any comon sense.

I've been reading these political posts for quite some time now, and after seeing the same regurgitation from the same people over and over again I've come to the conclusion that we're all doomed. Everybody on this board gets so worked up over political affiliation bashing that no one seems understand that IF WE ALL DON"T WORK TOGETHER it's over. Right or left you're all f***ing americans, maybe it's time to start acting like it.

Hey Alan O,

You aren't very bright, but you are entertaining. Those taxes you mention ARE paid by those with lower incomes but the feds aren't responsible for your state or local taxes. They have much to say about your excise taxes and your FICA payments, but both of those taxes are, for lack of a better phrase, earmarked for specific uses. I understand the fungibility of money so we don't need to go there, but the point is that it's your federal income taxes that are used to create this nirvana you keep saying liberalism will provide.

I think the idea behind having everyone pay something reflects the notion that if you think you are getting something for nothing you will demand more of it. It's an economic truism, don't you think, that if you want more of something you should subsidize it, if you want less you should tax it? You would apply this to all sorts of private actions in an effort to create the aforementioned nirvana, yet when it comes to poverty you race faster than Schumer to a TV camera to enact more free stuff to subsidize the impoverished.

I have to ask you...why do you want more people in poverty? Why do you hate them so much you'd rather they remain poor and dependent on the government instead of self-sufficient and free? All you have to do is allow for pro-growth, not pro-government, policies, and jobs will be created, deficits will fall, people will regain dignity, and, we will all need less from our lords in DC. The flip side, the negative stuff to you I suppose, is that you will lose the ability to spend other people's money so wantonly, and you will lose control over your countrymen. Damn. Tough call, huh?

Mr. Grover Norquist, Mr. John Boehner, Mr. Eric Cantor, Mr. Mitch McConnell and their fellow OBSTRUCTIONISTS will soon, November 2012, realize that their grand plan has not only hurt their fellow citizens who elected them but will find many of their ilk relegated to the ranks of the unemployed! They are rich, selfish, egotistical, and small-thinking human beings with little to no empathy for their countrymen nor for the United States of America itself! They will do NOTHING to help this country recover from this on-going economic morrass in which we are mired, unless it profits them personally and collectively! They have openly and bragadociously sought the downfall of the present Obama Administration from the very first day and, I believe, they are racists in their actions and show contempt for the office of the President of the United States. They will discover that the VAST MAJORITY of citizens are opposed to their unabashed greed and their destruction wrought on our poor and middle class population! They should be ashamed of themselves, as I am ashamed of their actions!

After reading these post were in for a ride and not a good one ive never seen so many sheep in one place. Sorry just my take

Hey onlyusernameleft,

What do you suggest we do? Each of us could put an idea into a hat and whatever we pull out we do? I have a different idea. How about any idea anyone has they MUST say where the constitution allows it and if they can't explain then their idea is rejected. They can do it at the state level if they want, but they can't do it federally. This method, just so you know, would invalidate the vast majority of what the feds do TODAY.

Another idea is to restrict what we can do to money paid in--no debt financing to give ourselves our unborn heirs' money. Another idea would be to simply accept that the world is not perfect, our nation will never be perfect, but it isn't bad, and that we should tolerate poverty to the extent it is self-imposed. Not subsidize it. Not reward it. No...no liberal solution here. But if someone wants to be poor and refuses to work and refuses to get up and try then let them live as they want. Not because we hate poor people, but because we place liberty as our first goal. And liberty means you get to do what you want but you don't get to make someone else pay for your bad choices.

Rich-281385,

So you think that its okay for multinational corporations to outsource jobs, stash their profits in an offshore tax haven, then "repatriate" those profits every few years to increase their bottom line?

And all while suppressing wages for three decades?

Way to go with trying to paint me as some kind of "extreme welfare liberal" though. LOL.... you don't have a clue. I assure you make a helluva lot more than you likely expect, and don't depend on ANY "welfare" programs. I'm just not brainwashed by FOX News pundits and Heritage Foundation bullsh!t emails like you. In fact, I used to think a lot like you as a slightly right-leaning independent. Then I started noticing some of the people from the right that I really respected coming out with the truth. Like this guy:

http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all-reflections-gop-operative-who-left-cult/1314907779

and this guy during the debt ceiling mess:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/opinion/05brooks.html?_r=1&src=ISMR_HP_LO_MST_FB

Put down the kool-aid glass man. You've been lied to for decades.

Hey Bransen,

Never, repeat, NEVER, should we pay corporations to do business here. What we should do is understand that firms want profits, and if they aren't risking their capital to get those profits there are reasons why. Fix THOSE reasons. Legal reforms, tax reform, regulatory reform, better education, and other pro-growth ideas would help businesses return to the USA. Some are gone, and gone for good. But most just want to survive and, frankly, liberals in the USA would do all they can to smother them so they leave. Can you blame them?

If Obamas first stimulus created 1.3m jobs, then why did the actual unemployment numbers go up? Why were no jobs created in August?

Why is unemployment still so high even with the first stimulus?

I say we tax the hell out of corporations. I say we tax GM, Ford, Chrysler, Mcdonalds, Boeing, Microsoft, Google so much, to the point that the CEO's finally just shut the door. Then when these huge corporations shut their doors, that will finally show those corporations who the boss is.

I say you tax those rich small business owners to the point where they decide to shut their doors. That will show those rich business owners who is boss,

Then all those rich ceo's and rich small business owners can move out of the US and take all their money with them leaving millions of people unemployed. That will show those rich CEO's!!

Then Obama can ask for 18 trillion to create jobs. Where will he get the money? Who cares!!

Alan, yes, it is exactly okay, because it's the law. Firms don't return their profits every few years, they look for places to take them where the tax consequence is lowest. So end the charade (you pay all corporate taxes anyhow--the corporation simply passes the costs on to you) and END corporate taxation. But this isn't a major reason why firms leave the USA. Regulations and political uncertainty are bigger problems to deal with. Legal concerns--tort law, property law, and so on, are high on the list too.

Let's tax ourselves directly and end the facade that firms pay taxes. Maybe in the process we will end up with voters wanting less free stuff as the true cost of it becomes more apparent? But whether I win that argument and we have a smaller government, or you win and we have a larger one, the voters will decide knowing better the cost they will bear.

ps--I never said word one about how much you make, and I really don't care. The first liar on the internet doesn't stand a chance anyhow.

Amen. Lawyer-politicians, a contradiction when it comes to enacting bills that will benefit the ordinary American. Democrat lawyer politicians is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated contradiction of all time.

President

there are a lot of sheep , like lambs to the slotter as long as they follow Obama.

Rich-281385,

the issue is our lopsided "fair trade". Get rid of NAFTA, stop the 25% exports vs. 2% import nonsense, equalize trade rate arrangements (which ultimately starts with China stopping their currency devaluation), and then sanction American companies who export labor to maximize their bottom lines.

American companies don't "run away" from their meal ticket. That's why they move entire operations overseas, and then import their products to sell here. If they did, EVERY multinational corporation would have fled the US back in the Clinton era. They also don't "over-inflate" prices for the same reason. If you want mass sales, you have to self'regulate your profit margin to create the consumption audience.

Deregulation is what brought us this mess. Bank deregulation most specifically. Speculation is another problem. Speculation that was created as the direct result of deregulation. Do you think you pay high prices for gas because of taxes?

I wrote the following a few weeks ago:

There should be no illusion that the answer doesn't lie solely at the top 2%. So for the sake of clarification, it should be acknowledged that our economy CLEARLY needs three things:

1) Trade reform to balance our current 25% import vs. 2% export deficit.
2) Tax reform to disregard and deeply regulate special interests.
3) Entitlement reform to strengthen and extend the social safety net.

In that order EXACTLY.

Addressing 1 and 2 FIRST, reduces the impact on 3, and affords MUCH more flexibility during the strengthening process.

Trade reform starts with getting China to stop devaluing its own currency, and making them acknowledge their greatest market: the US.

Tax reform doesn't need a specific target. It needs "fairly" distributive "gains vs. capability" measures. In other words, if your gains afford you the opportunity to contribute more, then you WILL contribute more. This will surely address the wage stagnation issue.

Entitlement reform requires much simpler measures after trade and tax reform have been accomplished to generate revenue. Means test Medicare Part D, and raise the taxable income cap from $106,800 to $250,000 for Social Security, and you're done. For AT LEAST 75 years or more.

EVERY ONE of our politicians KNOWS it really is just that simple. The problem is, most of them simply don't have the political will to make it happen.

If these companies passed the bulk of their tax obligation onto the consumer as you apparently believe, they wouldn't sell sh!t here, because NO ONE could afford it.

We don't live in a "supply driven" society. We live in a "demand driven" society. And you DON'T sell your products to a society that you try to overcharge. Or do you REALLY BELIEVE that they could match the profits they make here, in the third world countries they make their products in, if they had to play by the same rules here?

The problem is greed, my friend. NOT taxes and regulation.

While the Republicans may not have ALL of the village idiots in their ranks, they are certainly cornering the market!

Hey Alan,

Well it's nice to know you are consistent. You were just as wrong three weeks ago as now. We don't need more entitlements, we need less. We don't need more regulations, we need less. We don't need more taxes, but we definitely do need tax reform, and if that means we all pay more because our bennies are gone then so be it.

There is no way to reduce imports and increase exports without jettisoning GATT and the WTO. If you want to go that route then okay, but be prepared for a massive and prolonged international depression the likes of which would make this recession pale in embarrassment. NAFTA is not our enemy, but NAFTA at a time when we want more environmental controls, more financial controls, more labor relations controls, and so on, can be damaging. You'd go with less freedom for all in order to control excesses--I get that. I'd go with more freedom for all and accept the excesses as part of economic life. They've been with us forever, they'll be with us forever.

And there is no way to stop firms from setting up shop overseas, or from buying products made overseas. Not unless you intend, again, to make each of us less free by restricting what we can buy. What would you do, ban the possession of anything that reads 'Made in China"? Hell, you leftists talk about choice all the time until people actually exercise it.

Lastly, no firm in the history of humankind has ever NOT passed along all of its governmental costs to it's owners and customers. There is no where else to get the money. So you can have lower stock values, lower wage increases, higher prices, lower quality, and so on, but you can't raise corporate taxes and expect it not to be paid by you. The ONLY thing you have right is your idea that we are driven by demand, that without projected demand there would be no reason to produce.

If that concept doesn't help you understand the consequence of massive governmental regulatory uncertainty and how firms aren't hiring in large part as a result then what is there to discuss? In other words...if you want more jobs then quit trying to make everything perfect with your regulatory schemes.

Alan-o.

Let me get this straight. If someone was to offer you twice the amount of what you are making now, to do it in Canada, you wouldnt do it?

What if someone offered you three times as much?

What if someone offered you four times as much?

Are you telling me, you would say no? I mean I am guessing you would. I would hate for someone to think you were greedy.

Face it, companies are about making a profit. And in making that profit, they have the ability to employ people. if a company can't make a profit, then they can't stay in business. If they can make a larger profit by moving somewhere else, can you blame them? If you could make more money by moving somewhere, you are saying you wouldn't do it?

Give me a break

President Obama must do as all Presidents must do and that is to talk to the people behind the scenes before he gets carried away writing a 155 page American Jobs Act. He needs concurrence.

He has floated out a lead balloon and plans to promote the ideas to the people around the country on a tour, try to get people all stirred up.

This style is not a productive style, just creates greater separation and animosity between the President and Congress. Democrats that are sticking behind President Obama at this point are diehard apologists and Republicans aren't going to waste much time trying to reason with them. Republicans will please their own voting constituencies.

The President had better salvage this situation by working amiably with Congress and pass the few parts of the American Jobs Act that all can stomach. At least that will be a start.

The September jobs report may be even more grim than was August, ZERO.

Rich-281385,

First, drop the right-wing rhetoric. Seriously.

We don't need more entitlements, we need less.

And you can start right there. "Entitlements" is the wrong word. The CORRECT terminology is "obligations". Because that's what they are. Even for you.

We don't need more regulations, we need less.

I guess you like bailing out the Wall Street banksters? Seriously? LOL..... total stupidity.

We don't need more taxes, but we definitely do need tax reform, and if that means we all pay more because our bennies are gone then so be it.

And this is where you ultimately FAIL. If wage stagnation weren't the root cause of why "bennies" are even necessary, then more people could AFFORD to pay for them on their own.

And until you understand that fundamental truth, nothing you spew will be ANYTHING more than FOX Noise "fear factor" talking points.

On page 155 of the American Jobs Act (the last page) the President requires a $500 billion add-on to the "Trigger". He's asking for a raise even before the super-committee has met.

I'm not aware that the Fiscal 2012 budget has yet been adopted. Does anyone know if it has?

As I recall the Fiscal 2011 budget was adopted last April 15, 6-1/2 months late. On October 1st does President Obama intend to proceed writing checks without concurrence of Congress?

John Haddock,

Let me get this straight. If someone was to offer you twice the amount of what you are making now, to do it in Canada, you wouldnt do it?

Not if the costs of selling to my target market outweigh the profit potential of making it abroad and importing it back. Multinational corporations don't operate that way. Why do you think they export an entire manufacturing operation, and THEN import their products back to the US? Because they can make it in China for $3.00 a day, and then sell it here for $5.00 per.

But hey, what if they had to pay the SAME 25% tariff they once had to pay to China before they outsourced there, instead of the 2% they now pay to to the US?

When are you going to figure out that we are the target market?

alan, you are a funny dude. You wrote in your post about entitlements, then tell me to not use right wing rhetoric when I respond by writing, can you imagine the horror, entitlements.

Can you identify for me a single instance where I said we should bail out bankers? This may be our fundamental problem...I write nothing of the sort and yet you think you read it. I think that those banks and insurers and car makers and solar firms and ANY firm that got federal money to stay afloat should have been allowed to sink. I know the argument by people like you, that if we let them fail, if we let their assets be sold off, if we let their employees lose their jobs, that we'd all die in a dramatic Faustian scene, but I disagree with you.

The essence of a properly operating market is that there must be failure for it to succeed. Once you begin to pick winners and losers, like, say, Solyndra, then we all lose. I'd have preferred the bandaid to be ripped off quick. Look at where we are today? We remain economically stagnant. Housing values continue to flounder. Employment, not reported unemployment numbers but actual numbers of those working, has declined. Prices are climbing though, but is this good?

And you want MORE of all of this? Why, are you an economic masochist?

Rich-281385,

I know the argument by people like you, that if we let them fail, if we let their assets be sold off, if we let their employees lose their jobs, that we'd all die in a dramatic Faustian scene, but I disagree with you.

And you would be wrong. Because I would tell you that the need to bail them out should have never been allowed to manifest via the deregulation that ultimately caused their failure (insofar as the banks are concerned). The automakers was a different scenario entirely. And so far, they've lived up to the expectations, and paid back most of the bailout costs (with the exception of one I believe).

As for "obligations", like Social Security and Medicare, I'll grant you that one. I fell for the trap laid in the post I was responding to.

Alan-o

So you would do it. And yes, multinational corps would act just like you. They do act like you. They pay people big money to crunch dollar numbers all day. China has better regulations to promote businesses moving over there.

They export their entire manufacturing operation, because it is cheaper to operate in a different country, then it is in the USA. That is the bottom line. Yes they can pay the people over there less. That is because the cost of living in the USA is higher than china. Not to mention these corporations won't have to pay for obamacare over there which cuts into their bottom line. And you wonder why they leave?

Don't blame china for having lower tariff rates that allow it more economical to have a business there. Raising tarrifs on imported goods will just raise the bottom dollar for the consumer. You are saying the obama should raise the tarrif to 25%? Who do you think will end up paying that in the long run? The consumer will. Awesome. So that TV you got for $400, will now cost you $500.

Raising prices by 25% doesn't hurt the rich people. They have the money to pay it right? Who will it hurt the most? Poor people! Awesome Alan, you try to claim you care for poor people, but you really don't. You are greedy just like everyone else you try to condemn

John Haddock,

LOL..... you're really hopeless man.

They export their entire manufacturing operation, because it is cheaper to operate in a different country, then it is in the USA.

I guess you didn't get the memo:

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/china/labor-issues/index.html

The other new reality, perhaps harder to quantify, is that young Chinese factory workers, raised in a country with rapidly rising expectations, are less willing to toil for long hours for appallingly low wages like dutiful automatons.

Oh, and those pesky regulations that the Chinese look away from for the sake of jobs?

China has better regulations to promote businesses moving over there.

Oops:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/world/jan-june11/china_04-13.html

Looks like Apple may be in for a bit of a wild ride. Others will follow. Count on it. The Chinese are getting sick of being corporate America's punching bag.

But seriously, what part of "we are the target market" didn't you understand?

Alan, no bailout was caused by failing to regulate. We decided to short-circuit the free market because we don't trust it, not because we felt guilty for not properly regulating it. And none of this would have been needed either, if you want to play it out, had the government and the government's regulators not pressured banks over time to lend to risks they should not have, or if Fannie and Freddie had not been buying up paper in the secondary markets, or had Barney Frank and Maxine Waters not called Bush a racist for even suggesting to them that there was a bubble and that Fannie and Freddie needed reforms, and fast, else it would pop badly.

We can go back and forth over which came first, but this misses entirely the point--we've done NOTHING since it happened to help prevent a recurrence of it. This fact ensures that one day we will be bailing out failed firms again. What a massive shift of wealth from the workers to the owners, and you supported it!

ok so they leave china. I guess the only country for them to come back to is the USA right? LOL

No, Apple will just pick up and go somewhere else. Thats what businesses do.

I love your NY times links. Liberal media at its worst. And just because you say that China is getting tired of being americas punching bag, doesn't mean that what is going on over there won't happen for many more years to come

I see you have no comment on how raising tariffs would raise prices on goods. Yet you still think raising tariffs is a good thing. Why do you hate the poor so much?

Re comment #1.33 left by Doris. Doris says we liberals are supporting a bill we haven't even read. We liberals should all pay attention to what she's saying because apparently Doris is an "insider", she's been right there while Obama wrote the bill and knows all there is to know about it because she then goes on to tell us exactly her opinion of the contents. Nice try, Doris, at least you can say you're good at the typical Tea Party "know nothing, don't have a clue but if Obama did it it must be bad" rhetoric.

Rich-281385,

You seem to have a propensity for muddying up facts. I suggest you read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_United_States_housing_bubble#Speculative_fever

And you for some reason assume that I support "every" regulation in existence. Which I don't, unless it affords to the well being of human health and safety, and undue risk to personal finances.

AlanO post 1.75 & 1.80 - it seems that your basic premise (along with many other libs) is to find someone else to always pick up the tab. It must really hurt you to know that both parties passed tax codes that would benefit a variety of of their contributors. Contributors of the voting kind or financial support kind.

Amazing that your links do little to support your discussions with me, and seem more in line with a strawman type argument, which is what your first link is by way of deflection.

Be careful on what your second link suggests. First it suggests that one can go back in time and state that a government policy written and passed 5, 10, 15 or more years ago is still producing jobs today. Secondly it may also suggest that since the 2009 stimulas has worked so well in creating jobs and giving us 9.1% unemployment, flat job growth in august and a 1st half 2011 GDP of about 1% why do we need more of the same?

Interesting that the FED was given the dual mandate of creating a monetary policy and employment stimulas through its QE1 and QE2 stimulas. Now bernanke declares that there is little more that they can do to stimulate higher employment without the risk of unleashing inflation. From my perspective of living through the inflationary times of the late 70's, I will take this slow economic growth.

While the tax cuts passed in 4th qtr 2010 have yet to show any significant economic impact to date, I can at least understand the potential that added pocket money may promote some demand to generate more jobs. Additional cuts MAY also help, although I believe that its effect will be muted by how the consumer spends it.

Your third link is but an op-ed piece in nature, the poor will always be with us, just as the wealthy will be also. Those that wish to foment discontent to advance their own agenda will always promote discord between groups of people. Whether that discord is based on class, religion, wealth/poverty, politics makes very little difference.

Marxism was meant to provide equality across all people as was communism. Unfortunately these systems didn't take into account human individuality.

It should be instructional to you as well as others that no economist or politician has ever come up with an effective plan to avoid recessions or the means to quickly recover from them.

John Haddock,

ok so they leave china. I guess the only country for them to come back to is the USA right?

And yet again, you ignore the FACT that WE are the target market. And if the market is here, then to access it should require them to play by the same rules in reverse. And that starts with making the trade agreement universal. If it costs them 25% to import into China from here, then it should cost them the same 25% to export from China TO here.

And the same agreement should be required for EVERY country we trade with. A percentage for percentage match.

People keep whining about entitlements but few know what they are. SSI and Medicare are entitlements that workers paid for. Unfortunately, the government stole them to pay for other things that they were never meant for. Welfare, wars, government unions, and so many other things to innummerous to count. Now it is a bunch of IOU's instead of a trust fund.

Welfare is not an entitlement, nor food stamps, Medicaid, tax credits are so many other things that idiots think others owe to them for just existing.

When my wife and I had children we planned for them and paid all of the expenses that came with them. We have never lived on welfare. However, it seems like 40% of the country thrives on it. Why? Because the wrong have allowed them to. They have made generations of welfare recipients at the expense of tax payers and the Tea Party is the first real movement to oppose that crap in nearly 50 years. TEA = taxed enough already for those of you who think it means something else. It is past time for you and to get off of your collective socialist asses and support yourselves.

You support illegal aliens, mostly Mexicans, yet are too lazy to do the work they do, while committing the crimes they do. The Tea Party is done with that and all real Americans are too. You elected a buffoon to be president, a man who has always only cared about himself, who is afraid to expose his past, like most of those who elected him. He is toast next election and hopefully in jail soon after.

He said that if the last budget bill didn't pass, he couldn't guarantee payments to those who paid yet never mentioned those who didn't pay. He used the tax payers as his scapegoat while protecting those who voted for him in a weak attempt to protect himself and his undeserved lifestyle, never having a real job in his life, like most who supported him.

That mistake will come to a screeching halt in 14 months. The dems, which I am one but tired of their bs, will lose both houses and like the last time they controlled it all, will fix the mess 4 years of dems and 3 years of a complete idiot elected by complete idiots caused.

Of course the idiots will continue to blame Bush yet they have no argument as to why he had 5% unemployment most of his time in office while Obama and the dems created the great recession. Only idiots don't believe the dems caused this mess.

Alan, tell me something honestly...has there ever been a single regulation or law proposed by the president, any department or agency of the US government, or Congress, which didn't promise to make life as we know it better (aside from naming post offices and the like)? If your standard is to support all regulations that benefit us without undue cost or risk or whatever standard you want to apply, then you must support every regulation ever proposed and enacted.

Amen American.

It's funny how quickly this conversation always goes back to "take more from the rich, and the corporations, they don't need it, they waste it anyway", and yet the media and the dems find new ways to avoid saying "we are raising taxes". The title of the article calls it "revenue raising" as did Obama.

This plan was put together for one purpose - for Obama to campaign on the Robin Hood principle. Steal from the rich, give to the poor. Only the left's poor are six-figure government workers, union thugs (See Seattle news for the latest hostage taking and crowd chaos) receiving endless retirement benefits that the vast majority of American taxpayers no longer receive.

What really needs to happen, and what none of these career ruling class clowns will ever do, is to scrap the tax code, institute a fair tax / use tax combination with no deductions. A 1-sheet tax form, like the original. Send the lobbyists home, eliminate the mortgage deduction, the tax-benefits of non-profits, all of it. Get government completely out of trying to re-engineer society.

Can you imagine if we reverted to a 10% corporate tax, 10% income tax, 10% use tax, with no tax on food and medicine? No deductions, no arguing, no lobbyists. If you don't want to pay taxes, live a simple life. If you want to achieve, rock on, you will always keep most of what you earn.

Make the government work just like the rest of us - if the economy tanks, the government either plans ahead and saves some revenue for the dip or it shrinks to the revenue received.

Simple, fair, and all the shouting stops.

Alan, we should stop trading with China completely, at least until they play by the same rules as everyone else. We can all make this happen by refusing to buy any Chinese product. Unfortunately, most want to pay less for what they buy without realizing the consequences of their actions. They are to busy with endless electronic games and talking over phones without end or purpose.

The same happened in biblical times when the chosen ones turned away from God at every opportunity and prayed for him to redeem them after they screwed up royally. The fools think government is some kind of god, but like the past, it is just using them and they seem to be getting used to being used, thinking government is the answer for their own bs.

american-2051576,

It should be instructional to you as well as others that no economist or politician has ever come up with an effective plan to avoid recessions or the means to quickly recover from them.

Its called "lack of political will".

And that's a direct result of money in politics.

I don't entirely disagree with you. But....

More accurately, I think that if the deck hadn't been stacked so high against the average worker, through decades of wage stagnation and the feeding frenzy of maximum profit margins at any cost, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Do you believe that American workers should be working 8 hours a day for $3.00? I don't think so.

You don't address the core of the problem in its entirety. Which would take a friggin' novel to lay out. Insurance costs, speculation, irresponsible governance.... the list goes on and on. But the fiscal troubles ALWAYS come back to the same three things:

Trade
Taxes
Banking

And the issues surrounding everything else gets folded into one of those categories in one way or another. And then it ALWAYS leads back to the SAME thing.

Money in politics.

Bob-3374873,

The fools think government is some kind of god, but like the past, it is just using them and they seem to be getting used to being used, thinking government is the answer for their own bs.

While I agree with much of your sentiment, I disagree that government "has no role". Insofar as "responsible governance" is concerned.

Government should adhere to three basic tenets:

1) The betterment of the American way of life
2) The protection of the public well-being (on matters of health and finance.... and militarily of course)
3) The governance of the public will (within the parameters of numbers 1 & 2)

And that's no "small job" by any means.

Madison From NY "What happens when US debt exceeds $30 Trillion"

Obama's own projections (see Obama's 2012 Budget) calls for the National Debt to be over $26 Trillion by 2021, but he estimated the GDP growing by over 5% per year and government revenues growing by over 7% per year, and artificially low interest rates, which economists say is unrealistic.

Putting a more realistic 3% GDP growth rate, 5% government revenue growth and historical interest rates shows a National Debt of over $36 Trillion by 2021.

What happens? Our children and grandchildren are going to be impoverished and China, etc. will be living high on almost $2 Trillion per year in interest payments made to them - Ten times as much as under Bush.

How's that "Change we can believe in" working for YOU?

The liberals are on a post collapsing spree, seems they can't or won't read the article, which stated that the democrats also were against this stimulus back when it was first proposed...three years ago. No, they would much rather rant and rave and act like little children. If they get their way, it will be like breaking into the candy store, eating all the candy and then whining because there is no more candy. They will ignore the mess they made and blame their actions on anyone but themselves.

Newly Independent - I don't know where the F you live but I have to pay taxes on my unemployment - when I can get it. I was recently turned down for unemployment because I was attacked by a co-worker who had a history of violence and prison time (union job). However, because I was involved in an altercation (defending myself against workplace violence) I was let go. I don't know about you people. We have had this guy in office for 3 years now and everything has gotten worse - including his blaming of GWB. Whatever happened to "The buck stops here"? The unemployment rate in my state has gotten higher as has the foreclosure rate, as has the price of gas, as has everything. No one outside of the senate or the house gives a rat's ass about the common people. The common people being the ones that have to live from paycheck to paycheck or unemployment check.

It is time for all the politicians (and the people) to say "wait a minute" This is NOT working. The "this" being spending.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

I see the usual collection of Liberal Progressive Teabaggee's are out in force again with their scripted socialist propaganda. It's always the same little Klan that come on here and mentally masturbate all over each other. The delusional social and economic justice for the collective reigns supreme here.

Traits such as self-reliance, independence, self-determination and ambition are no longer in the Liberal Progressive Teabaggee's vocabulary. They have been replaced with self-pity, exploitation, victimization and discrimination. They constantly exude their stance on racism but don't realize they are the biggest cause of it. Their hate, anger, ignorance, prejudice, bias, racism, xenophobia and vitriol are cleverly disguised by their projection of it on everyone who disagrees with them.

The lack of fiscal and monetary policy outside of the typical Keynesian nonsense that incompitants like Krugman and Bernanke espouse is clearly exposed in these ridiculous piecemeal $timulu$ attempts. Deficit spending didn't work during the Great Depression or the last massive failure of the 2009 $stimulu$ and it won't work now. No budget for over 860 days and another one will be missed again at the end of this month. The Liberal Progressive party of NO is now the party of "I don't know" how to fix anything. This was fully exposed recently during the debt ceiling debate with partisan efforts such as "I'll veto it" (Barrack Hussein), "DOA" and "Table it" (Hairy Reed). Typical Liberal Progressive Teabaggee effort.

And of course their most illustrious solution to anyone confronting their socialist agenda, that has never worked in a nation our size, is of course, censure. Collapsing any post that challenges their self-aggrandized "intelligence" is their only defense. As they live in their little inconsequential life here on "First Need Read" believing anyone cares what they spend hours posting is testament to their delusion of importance. The biggest hypocrisy of course is their incessant denouncement of capitalism but simultaneously they demand that the mean, greedy, rich, fat-cat, private-jet flying, wealthy pay for their endlessly failing socialist policies.

Only in the delusional mind of the Liberal Progressive Teabaggee's can this seem rational.

(By the way, a “teabaggee” is the one who accepts the bag from the teabaggers. You can find a more descriptive definition here, urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabaggee)

Wow are the liberal posters having to reach for a viable argument.

Tim, Seattle

And still...the GOP has NO SOLUTIONS, NO JOBS BILL, NO IDEAS

The GOP will stall out a recovery to get themselves elected. AMERICANS OPUT OF WORK DONT HAVE 14 MONTHS. PASS THE BILL!!

Dump the do-nothing GOP in 2012

...gotta be an out of work union guy that needs to have us add to his pension. Let's see...there was Cut, Cap and Balance, which would have curtailed government spending and allowed small businesses to breathe and start hiring because that specter of the big tax increase would fade alittle.

Even better, Romney released a plan too last week...except his actually made sense and didn't cost the taxpayers $450 billion. http://news.yahoo.com/romney-jobs-plan-cut-taxes-slap-china-drill-201111301.html

Backhouse

Madison, Congress will pay for the jobs plan by:

Imposing new limits on itemized deductions for those who earn more than $200,000 a year and families earning more than $250,000. Getting rid of those deductions will bring in $400 BILLION in revenue. Ending subsidies for oil and gas companies and mofications to depreciation rules for corporate airplanes:

Such a tax package would raise $467 BILLION, more than enough to pay for the new jobs bill.

Oh here's Obama's math and campaign strategy defined in a reply. The article specifically stated "a tax increase that would raise $400 billion over 10 years"...that 10 year little tidbit Backhouse accidently omitted. So given Lew's numbers, Obama's funding plan comes up with $40 billion from the tax increase, $18 billion taxing capital gains interest and $40 billion cutting oil subsidies. Ok...so far we have $98 billion in savings/additional revenue.

Oops...Mr. Obama....you are $350 billion short! Oh, and lets add in the supercommittee has to find another $150 billion/year.....uh oh!!! $500 billion short! Would you like us to put that on our chinese credit card with its shiney new higher interest rate Mr. President Downgrade?

Some of these comments are priceless.

ORB 1943

The only snag with Obama's Jobs Bill was that it was three to five times TOO SMALL.

Spectacular!!! So if the government pays out $2.5 TRILLION everything will be better. ORB...where do you think this money comes from??? They can't find $4 trillion over 10 years and you think they'll find $2.5 trillion THIS year? I would absolutely HATE to see the balances on your credit cards with this type of thinking.

Paris.

and the Republicans think this is going to drive mainstream America to vote for any of them in 2012? ok...crazy, radical bible twisting Perry, got my vote...no , I mean Mormon corporations are people like me Romney, got my vote...no, I mean batty TP Bachman got my vote...noooo, i mean (banging head against wall)...Obama 2012! whew

...and there ya have it....banging your head into the wall and giving yourself brain damage makes you vote for Obama. Thank you for clarifying that Paris! There have been a lot of us out there wondering how an inexperienced community organizer got elected...now we know.

dirp101

I am shocked, shocked I tell you. After the effort this President put forth, working day and night for a whole month, then having to schedule and reschedule his presentation to Congress. To have all of that effort dismissed by the Republican Party is just absolutely shocking. I can't believe it. Its like they don't even care about America. Its like all they want is to be reelected and to take over the entire government.

I hope you are being sarcastic because if this is a serious post....well...wow.

It took him a month to find the bill he proposed 2 years ago? Can't Michelle learn to file or something...get the guy a little more organized?

Once again Obama shows us that we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

Fix the spending problem by voting in a conservative. I don't care whether you choose to support a blue dog Democrat, a Republican, or even a moderate tea party candidate. Just get it done or we are all toast.

Atlas shrugging

why are there no comments on taxing the 51% of Americans that pay NOTHING???????

You mean pay no fed income tax right? Because otherwise you are full of crap.

JC in G

Would those states get to collect all the taxes that would normally go to the federal government?

======================

......So glad you asked that question, check out the following:

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/fed-tax-sentspent-by-state/

You may notice that the majority of the states that get back MORE than they send in are the red, GOP, self-sufficient states. Sen Slick McConnell's KY gets back $1.51 for every dollar it sends to D.C., and those small government, secessionist bubbas up in Alaska get back $1.84! If you cut that back to a 1:1 ratio, we would save a lot of money. Notice that evil, corrupt Illinois only gets back $.75 for each buck they contribute, what a bunch of losers. This is just another reason why I no longer support the GOP, they talk fiscal responsibility while feeding like hogs at the Federal government trough. What two-faced, hypocritical anal apertures they have become. In fact, even one face is one too many for McConnell and Boehner, they both look like they are permanently constipated.

Mike-416

Atlas shrugging

why are there no comments on taxing the 51% of Americans that pay NOTHING???????

You mean pay no fed income tax right? Because otherwise you are full of crap.

====================

Mike, people like Atlas (aka Anal Rand) are always screaming about this. But usually the number they quote is 47%, now Atlas makes it 51%, and probably will increase it to 65% next week, whatever fits his/her mood at that time (maybe Atlas was thinking of Exxon-Mobile, GE, Boeing, etc.). Yes, the chronic complainers choose to ignore the state income tax, payroll tax, sales tax, etc. that these people do pay. A family of 4 with $22K income will wipe that out on their tax return with their standard deduction and exemptions. How many of you out there are jealous of that $22K annual income? My wife and I have combined pay of less than 6 figures, but our Fed tax iability is 5 figures. Still, I wouldn't trade places with a $22K familiy for anything. How about you Atlas, would you like to trade?

I saw two news items this morning. Middle Class medium income has fallen to 1996 levels, and we now have the largest number of people living in poverty in this country than at any other time in our history, 46.2 million. Could be that many former Middle Class workers have seen their income drop considerably over this time period, which would account for the drop in medium income and increase in the poverty level dwellers. Pretty hard to pay income taxes when you are at the poverty level. But all is not lost, the upper 3% continue to see income growth, and we all know they are hard at work creating jobs, albeit in some other country.

A great deal of right-wingers seem to believe that eliminating public sector-backed middle class jobs, while eliminating taxes on the wealthy and budget-cutting public schools will somehow magically create good-paying, secure jobs in the private sector.

Ever seen that movie, "Idiocracy"? Vote more of these GOP/TPers in, and I suspect we'll be accelerating the nation's economy in that direction.

rradiko

A great deal of right-wingers seem to believe that eliminating public sector-backed middle class jobs...

I don't know of a single "right-winger" that supports "eliminating public sector-backed middle class jobs". If you are referring to eliminating public sector unions that negotiate unsustainable pensions then your statement would be accurate.

Roselle, how about a bill that proposes spending 17 trillion now? That would definitely put some people back to work. It would only double our debt. I propose a 17 trillion stimulus bill to put Americans back to work. Who's with me????

Wow, what a shocking headline. Why didn't it just say "Republicans continue blind support for Corporations and the Wealthy!" Better yet, "Republicans continue to kiss Grover Norquist's A$$"

What I really don't get is how many people there are on this site that must believe they're in the top 2% income level.

Because if for some reason they aren't and they feel that trickle down worked and would even consider voting Teapublican, then they can only be delusional.

Obama has proposed all these new taxes many times before and they have never been acceptable to the GOP. Many of them are not acceptable to Democrats either! All this he knows... It's political gamesmanship aimed at getting him re-elected. Hoping to paint his opponents as being against The American Jobs Act (or whatever the heck he called it). Americans will not accept it any more though. They have seen him try to solve every problem by spending more and more money. Time to stop Mr. President. Your ideas don't work.

Wow, what a shocking headline. Why didn't it just say "Republicans continue blind support for Corporations and the Wealthy!" Better yet, "Republicans continue to kiss Grover Norquist's A$$"

I like this one better, "Republicans realize the emperor has no clothes." Or "Republicans understand that son-of-stimulus is ALSO a huge waste of money, and won't create jobs."

Feisty, same plan different day. Democrats had super majority and could have passed what ever they wanted, why didn't they?

Sorry Wlee, the first plan worked. Spending cuts are stalling the economy.

Let's do what works, instead of what doesn't.

Sorry Eric the first plan was a huge failure. Obama is doubling down on stupid.

How will he blame Bush for this you TWIT?

Millions of Tea Partiers wonder why it's taken 962 days in office for President Obama to come up with a jobs plan....i can't really say that i blame them. We all should wonder why.

President Obama reached into the trash can of failed Democrat policies and pulled out a recycled version of his 2009 Stimulus plan. This time around, he's asking for a $447 Billion stimulus package containing $250 billion in tax cuts and $194 billion in new spending.

I am not a Tea Party supporter, but perhaps i should become one because they are the only ones in Congress that get it!

Oh your're from the state of illannoyance. No Wounder!



wlee, where were you when all the Senate could do was filibuster?

#2 Another post with no sign of human Intelligence...

Heartlight3-

Where were you when the Democratic Senate majority bleated about changing the U.S. Senate's filibuster rules for the new 112th Congress...but did nothing?

They're hypocrites, Heartlight.

Hypocrites.

Those same Democrats suspect they'll become the minority in January, 2013...with good reason.

Then, they'll love the filibuster.

And, so will you.

Heartlight do you know what a super majority is? Eric, really the first stimulus worked are you kidding me. Is it really that hard to say your party was wrong. Bush was wrong for running up the debt and I'm still waiting for Obama to be right, although I do give him credit for getting Bin Laden. Now I know why I'm an Independent.

Yo, Doris. The first stimulus worked. Check out the charts.

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/197115-Three-Charts-Republicans-Should-Know

There you go again Eric - backing up your claim with some facts...

Shame on you... ;o)

Eric,

Sorry Wlee, the first plan worked. Spending cuts are stalling the economy.

Let's do what works, instead of what doesn't.

Then why the hell is unemplyment above 8%??? I guess it's just spin and rhetoric when the reports come out every month saying the country hemorraged more jobs... that's just a figment of people's imaginations I guess.

So a stock market the swings 600 points in a day is an indicator of a strong, stable and growing economy? Shutting down the shuttle program created jobs? Obama pissed away a trillion dollars on TARP and it did NOTHING. So this genius thinks throwing more money away on essentially the exact same idea is going to work? That, I believe, is the definition of insanity.

"Republicans continue to kiss Grover Norquist's A$$"

Hey, give them a break! After all, they took Grover's oath before they took their oaths of office, so obviously, it takes precedence.

Oh, nice attempt at posting "fact" with 3 crappy charts that look like they were whipped up by some 8th grader with Excel. You can make any chart make one guy look bad and another guy look good.

Notice in the second graph that Bush's deficit was low and even going down until 2007? Hmm, what happened in 2007? Oh that's right, Dems took control. Lol

Oh, nice attempt at posting "fact" with 3 crappy charts that look like they were whipped up by some 8th grader with Excel.

Further evidence the mind really is a terrible thing to waste... lol

They don't need NO stinkin FACTS!

Eric

charts are nice ,but the are projecting into the future and are not total fact.

Feisty

the facts are that Obama would blame Bush for the great depression of the 30's if he could. Obama has no idea how to make jobs , we need jobs that produce a product that can be sold around the world as well as at home that way we are bring money and jobs back to the U.S. nothing less will do.

eric-913... - Spending cuts, what spending cuts? you must have had one to many tabs of LSD.

Yepper eric, another loss for you. Current official government data puts unemployment at 9.1%, pathetic job growth in august and our current first half GDP as follows....

Real gross domestic product -- the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States -- increased at an annual rate of 1.0 percent in the second quarter of 2011, (that is, from the first quarter to the second quarter), according to the "second" estimate released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the first quarter, real GDP increased 0.4 percent.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

To bad obama failed to build off of the temporary bump in GDP. Without sustainability it failed just as you and fiesty's argument has failed.

Say fiesty,not to worry, I hear cantor is willing to separate out the tax cuts into a separate bill and that obama would be willing to sign legislation on a timed basis.

One thing that does puzzle me is obama always wanting to push things through as rapidly as possible and between pushes he takes off for 5 -6 months to campaign for re-election in 2012. As an incumbant I would have thought he would want to run on his economy record? Guess that is what happens when he still trys to act like a senator instead of POTUS.

Any U.S. Citizen, holding public office, who would have the audacity to sign a private pledge to ANYONE other than the U.S. citizens, such as the "no tax increase" pledge made to Grover Norquest's group, should be charged with a criminal offense! Why? Because it is a conflict of interest which borders on an abdication and violation of a fiduciary responsibility. That responsibility includes serving the citizens of U.S. in the best financial way possible, any pledge made on behalf of an individual or group of individuals, may be in direct conflict to the public office held and the duties and obligations to the general public!

Hey Tom in Tamarac,

It has nothing to do with my tax bracket which is definitely not in the top 2%. My opposition to Obama's "new" plan is that it isn't new at all and it doesn't work. Taking money from you to give to me, or me to you, doesn't positively alter our GDP. The absolute best outcome we could hope for is a perfectly efficient governmental transfer and our GDP would remain the same. If you believe the government is that efficient, well more power to you, but I live in the real world.

Obama's pro-government policies are doing nothing to help the USA. And unfortunately this president, because of his ideology and voter base, is unable to offer pro-growth policies instead. so we are stuck until he loses in 2012 or he is termed out in 2017. I don't believe in God, but if you do please pray for a loss for Mr. Obama in 2012.

Hey Eric,

Let's get your response...this should be rich. How is it that spending cuts not yet even enacted have stalled the great and wonderful economic recovery you credit Mr. Obama with causing?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Pass this bill NOW!

Screw Grover Norquist!!!

America is burning while the tea baggers fiddle!

Pass this bill NOW, to the garbage can. Spending won't fix our problems let alone our government, the very ones that caused our economic woes.

Stupid...By 1945 we raised 450 Billion in 1945 dollars to fund WWII....That would be 4.5 TRILLION in 2010 dollars..Ya get the context? Most likely not!

TorpedoYou,

You are correct, I really don't get the context.

Me either.

Hey, I have an idea! Let's just continue to do what Republicans have been doing for the past 2-1/2 years... NOTHING! That'll surely solve the problems we face in this country.

Republicans great philosophy on life must sound something like this: "The longest journey begins with feet planted firmly, unwilling to take even a single step forward. Unbending, unyielding, like a dead branch in a windstorm."

I wonder how that scenario ends.

Republicans are doing worse than nothing, they stand in the way of anyone trying to do anything. And all you middle class republicans supporting them just join right in, justifying it, right in lockstep. Is getting the White House Back that big a deal, is getting the black man out of the White House worth putting the people of this country through all of this. We need to take these people out. All talk and no substance, you bunch of do nothings. Argue and argue about the details while people starve...

The Republican-Tea Potty can go to hell.

"The Democrats great philosophy is to run head first into a brick wall, get up, dust themselves off, and do it again"

That 'brick wall' is GOP obstruction.

And, hell yeah - the Dems will do it again and again, until that wall comes tumbling down!

Of course, everyone could just sit back and do nothing, and say 'no', and ....

Rick'sreal, yeah lets go with the Liberal idea and spend spend spend, that's why daddy wants to take your credit card away. Flat tax so you whiners can stop with the rich crap. Oh BTW maybe we can go after the welfare fraud to pay for this stimulus.

insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, lol

Yeah, the constant NO NO NO from the GOP is getting insane! And Americans are getting angrier and angrier! Have you seen the Republicans/Tea Party disapproval ratings recently?? If that were to hold true in the election, it would be a Democrat landslide and a final repudiation of this version of the GOP!!

wlee-950886

Rick'sreal, yeah lets go with the Liberal idea and spend spend spend, that's why daddy wants to take your credit card away. Flat tax so you whiners can stop with the rich crap. Oh BTW maybe we can go after the welfare fraud to pay for this stimulus.

How do you think roads, bridges, schools, etc are built? Private donations? You Republicans think the Democrats are pocketing the money or is spending it on summer homes and yachts just because that is what you do with the money (pet projects like golf clubs in State and Federal parks which serve no one but the idle rich and creates minimal jobs). Why don't you mention Bush's implementation of a war and prescription drug program and how it was paid for? It was ALL put on "daddy's credit card." What, short-term memory lapse there wlee. WE, the voters have VERY long memory's.

The only difference is that is paid for, and its about time the WEALTHEST NON-JOB CREATORS pay their fair share!

First off sugarbugger, I'm not a Republican second off Bush made several mistakes. Bonds pay for a lot of construction projects and yes rich do supply funds for building structures genius.

Hey, I have an idea! Let's just continue to do what Republicans have been doing for the past 2-1/2 years... NOTHING!

At this point doing nothing sounds a hell of a lot better than what Obama has attempted. It failed epically the first time so he's going to try it again? That honestly makes sense to people? Or do some people not even bother to try and make sense of it? Too caught up in the partisan bickering to realize our POTUS is using that bickering as a distraction.

It didn't fail, the stimulus worked. Explain the growth in the GDP.

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/197115-Three-Charts-Republicans-Should-Know

It didn't fail, the stimulus worked. Explain the growth in the GDP.

Spending $228,055 (the CBO's min estimate) to create a mid wage, temporary job is an epic failure no matter how you try to spin it.

rich do supply funds for building structures genius

Yes, sometimes they do. Usually through construction loans. Or did you think they paid out of pocket?

Eric

They won't respond to facts because facts and figures have a liberal bias. Name calling, and fake outrage over fake talking points are their strong points and they hold fast to them.

laura - how many poor folk go out and create jobs for others?

You said...

WEALTHEST NON-JOB CREATORS

must mean that the poor create jobs, right?

eric and dangerous, care to look at current government facts and figures?

Real gross domestic product -- the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States -- increased at an annual rate of 1.0 percent in the second quarter of 2011, (that is, from the first quarter to the second quarter), according to the "second" estimate released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the first quarter, real GDP increased 0.4 percent.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

Current unemplyment at 9.1% and stagnent job growth in august 2011. Yep the 2009 stimulas sure did work well.

Tom - your wishful thinking will be repudiated in 2012. The polls show Obama will lose, Democrats will lose more seats, and economists are now agreeing that Obama's plan will do little but to add to the debt. This isn't paid for, FactCheck, the liberals favorite site says Obama is a big liar, and now he is parading his big lie across country on our dime.

The Tea Party is a tiny part of the debate. This massive fraud, $15 trillion in debt and record annual deficits are all part of the DC political crime syndicate. Dems and Reps stealing us blind.

Economists agree on one thing - government CANNOT create jobs. We just did this same con with Obama 2 years ago and we have PROOF this phony stimulus nonsense doesn't work. It's like putting your groceries on your Visa and never making a payment.

Voters, taxpayers, understand what a fraud Obama is. Democrats running for re-election are distancing themselves from Obama. This doesn't happen if the country is happy with the dems or the head demmie.

(im)Practical Libertarian, another genius pointing to "polls" stating what those polls are. Just to enlighten you, the combined polls (Rasmussen, NBC/Wall St. Journal, Pew Research & USA Today/Gallup) show the Republicans at 44.0 %, Obama at 43.5%. Hardly a huge lead considering there's still considerable time to go before the election. The combined polls (using the same ones I just listed) show that Obama is leading every one of the GOP/TP contenders, some by large margins, except for one (Romney) who has a slight edge over Obama (45.8% to 45.2%) again, not much of an edge for Romney. I've told others and I think I have even told you before that if you are going to start spouting "polls", tell what polls you are referring to and give a link if you expect any credibility. I got the above information from the following link and these results are current as far as date.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

Backcountry164

Hey, I have an idea! Let's just continue to do what Republicans have been doing for the past 2-1/2 years... NOTHING!

At this point doing nothing sounds a hell of a lot better than what Obama has attempted

Listen to yourself! Obama has attempted. What have Republicans "attempted" in the past few years that is worthy of merit? Obstruction? How ironic that you begin your post "Hey, I have an idea!"

Because, no, in fact, you don't have any ideas.

And while we are at it make it subject to self employment tax.

If I work for myself doing most anything, I have to pay self employment tax and then my income is taxed as ordinary income. But if I sit at my desk trading/investing my income avoids self employment tax and then is, for the most part, taxed at the much lower capital gains rate.

America doesn't need any more "financial engineers". Why are we subsidizing investing/trading to a such a level?

Ain't going to happen Amy not in a million years, don't lose track of who owns your government.

Finally!

I hear you bush.

So...why didn't anyone tell us that companies are all about making profits? Why didn't someone tell us that government shouldn't get involved in Big Business? Oh really? Does that mean these Aholes in Big Business will stay the hell out of all that funding they get or those tax exemptions, credits, subsidies and other BS? Sure. They want government out of business. They just don't want to end the Gravy Train that pays their business operations expenses with taxpayer bailouts and huge subsidies.

Big Business WAS all about profit until the jerks running these Big Businesses started to depend on government handouts to help them pay their bills while they hold onto 80% of their profits they now use to increase THEIR and ONLY THEIR salaries or else play high risk investment games using taxpayers and their payroll deductions to fund their investment addictions. More BS from Corporate Raiders of the Lost Economy?

BTW- what the hell are 'GOP leaders'? Are those like those wire deals with swivels on them you fish with??

So you like my 17 trillion stimulus idea?

JC in G...10 years of Republican COWARDICE...2 unfunded wars, Europeans living on our dime....What say we enact a SURTAX just to pay for the wars in Iraq and the AFG...I thought so...crickets...What a bunch of poltroons.

As long as the surtax goes to people that are unemployed, than I am all for it. I don't think we can get a 17 trillion tax hike past the GOP, but we seem to be able to spend whatever we want. 17 Trillion stimulus would give each unemployed person a lot of money to spend. Just their spending alone would stimulate the economy enough to let us collect more than 17 trillion in taxes! It's like getting money from thin air!!

It is not getting money out of thin air and certainly not class warfare since the lower and middle class is shedding the blood to "keep us safe." They are also bearing the financial burden and suffering the most at a housing meltdown wrought by the pimps and toads on Wall Street and aided and abetted by their Republican whores in the Congress.

I didn't say anything about class warfare. You mentioned it while stating that the middle class is shedding blood to "Keep us safe". Why did you bring up class warfare? According to the president, it is like getting money out of thin air. He has said that spending money on stimulus will spur the economy on such that we will collect more taxes because everyone will be employed and the taxes we collect will pay for the stimulus. If that is the case, what is wrong with the idea of a 17 trillion stimulus package. The president can spend 17 Trillion on building roads and fixing bridges and hiring more teachers. All those builders and teachers will then pay more than 17 trillion in taxes to pay back the 17 trillion we borrowed to hire them. Along the way they won't have to collect unemployment or foodstamps because they have a good job. The money the government does not have to spend on foodstamps and unemployment will be just like getting money out of thin air. If you want to follow the basic financial principles of the president, you should at least understand his thinking....

If the gOP plan for JOBS is to tell peopole they are going to give more corporate tax breaks while cutting government, gutting safety regulations and fighting minimum wage, and that somehow this will 'trickle down' to jobs is NUTS.

America isnt buying the argument. The voters see the Preseident put out some solutions that could create jobs in a few months , the GOP, well they have 'NO' as a plan.

GOP to Unemployed: "Good luck unemployed, its all your fault"

Keep it up GOP and ALL the independant voters will go Dem

Pass Obama's plan! We are at war!!! In case you forgot, we have soldiers dying overseas!!! You are either with us, or again' us!!!! Deficits don't matter!!! I mean this sh*t worked for W. to pass his unpaid for tax cut and medicare expansion, it should work now...unless the Republicans are unpatriotic cowards...

Well it looks like the corporate bosses have given their marching orders to the Republican-Tea Potty.

Of course those orders tell these folks to put the corporate bosses first and get that black SOB @!$%# out of the White House.

Maybe you people should do some research and see how much money went to the Democrats from wall street and major corporations. While you're at it read up on Obama's job czar Imelt from GE dealing with China on building aircraft to compete with Boeing . Clean your own house before worrying about others .

end all deductions and loopholes for business and individuals! (I can hear millions saying "keep your hand off my stash")

Flat tax everybody NOW.

Everybody whining about the rich and companies are paying nothing, wake up, 51% of Americans pay NOTHING, is this right?????

hypocrisy1776 - What does Obama's boondoggle of a jobs non-bill have to do with soldiers dying overseas? Really, time to get the meds adjusted.

I think what I listening to is a total joke. Both GOP and DEM and Lib followers. Do you really think the federal govt can create jobs? No way it just do not work that way, millions of people did not become hired and laid off because of the government? People stop buying and when sales slows down, money slows down. Tax cuts are stupit because the federal govt. collect taxes to pay it bills. No tax money, then bigger debt. Finally I think the tea party is a joke..where was the tea party 10, 5 years ago before this mess happened? The say they are different but if they were then they sure as hell would not be GOP or DEM, they be IND. because you will always have ideas that are good from both sides. And for all you folks who think obama is the blame for everything wrong? Well Don't blame bush or obama for this mess..blame the damn congress they hold the check book and write the checks..the president only signs the back for cashing.

The fact that we are at war, and that the president still has the power to issue signing statements means that if congress won't act, and he can frame it as required for the war effort, he can do what GW did hundreds of times on hundres of issues; just bypass it.

People stop buying and when sales slows down, money slows down.

Um, people stop buying because they don't have the money to buy. Demand creates jobs. More money in the pockets of the middle class creates demand. Tax cuts for the rich do not create jobs. If they did, we'd be knee deep in jobs after the Bush tax cuts and the Obama extensions.

I said it once before, pass the jobs bill, if it doesn't create jobs and help the economy, then the GOP will be given the task to provide a different plan of their own. If it works then shame on all of those who didn't believe it would. WE NEED JOBS NOW and I think any plan right now is worth trying and it should matter how much it costs. If nothing is done soon there might not be enough time or money left for another plan.

Obama has acted just like Bush. Agreed to Bush tax cuts. Kept Gitmo open. Closing out wars over many years, on Bush timetable. Where he differed is in adding 81,000 pages of new regulation. And even more debt in even less time.

I wonder what 81,000 pages of NEW regulation has done to create jobs. Certainly doing all the Bush things hasn't accomplished anything, nor did nearly $900 billion in stimulus.

So without calling names and spitting up, explain how doing less of what didn't work a year or two ago will produce better results?

Or do we need to talk about the bankrupt solar company now under FBI investigation, or the other failed green jobs companies the stimulus money went to? We know he paid off his union votes with the stimulus, is this just a big campaign fund for the top dummy, er, demmie?

Derf - we passed the stimulus 2 years ago and IT DIDN'T WORK. This is not a jobs bill. This is a con-job democrat payoff bill. Robbing social security is really now a democrat strategy for economic growth?

You are on dope arnt u!

Jack did it work the first time?

Reps want to raise taxes on the lower income:

"We're dismayed at the injustice that nearly half of all Americans don't even pay any income tax," Texas Gov. Rick Perry intoned last month when announcing for president. What to do? Here's Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann: "We need to broaden the base so that everybody pays something, even if it's a dollar." More recently, former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman approvingly cited Florida Sen. Marco Rubio as saying we don't have enough people paying taxes in this country. The GOP as stalwart fighters against taxes? No more. That more Americans should pay taxes is, according to the Wall Street Journal, "the new Republican orthodoxy."

And who is it Republicans would like to raise taxes upon? According to the Tax Policy Center, 46 percent of U.S. households won't pay income taxes this year. The elderly (who are mostly retired, have a larger deduction, and often don't have their Social Security benefits taxed) make up a plurality of 44 percent of the nonpayers, while people whose income tax liability is wiped out by the child tax credit, child and dependent care tax credit, and the earned income tax credit—all of which were enacted with Republican support—make up an additional 30 percent of the group. (The rest of the nonpayers get a handful of smaller tax credits, including education credits, itemized deductions, and even capital gains benefits.)

Keep in mind that these people not having any income tax liability does not mean that they don't pay taxes (as is often implied in GOP talking points). They pay state and local taxes, not to mention federal payroll taxes, which of course the GOP wants to see rise.

[Read Washington Whispers: Democrats Hit GOP Tax 'Hypocrisy']

So Republicans worry about the wealthy paying too much in taxes while fretting about freeloading lower classes. They talk a big deficit game but are more concerned about cutting government spending, specifically on programs that benefit the nonrich. Perhaps this isn't cognitive dissonance but the logical evolution of the modern GOP into an Ayn Rand-ian coalition explicitly focused on freeing a wealthy elite from the parasitical depredations of everyone else.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/09/07/why-the-republicans-want-to-raise-your-taxes-?PageNr=2

akgirl

You should move someplace like Cuba. Where most folks are truly too poor to pay any taxes. If the tax code was revamped so everyone had a stake in the game everything would improve. People would vote from a whole different perspective.

Not going to happen. The democratic party makes their living being the modern day plantation masters. Get outraged.

Doug,

So I assume then by your analogy that you are outraged that the Reps want to continue tax loop holes that allow large corporations like GE to pay zero fed income tax and that makes them in your words "modern day plantation masters" as well.

Yes it did work and for those of you that keep saying it didn't then we should be still losing 750,000 jobs a month like we were when Obama took office. I don't get it because we seem to not be able to tell the truth when it comes to history. Did GWB create 23 million jobs or even 5 million jobs during his eight years as President? Since we all know the answer then tell me that Republican ideas work and how they work? At the beginning of this year were we not creating over 200,000 jobs a month before this congress came into power. What changed the landscape? Obama was still there and the senate was still controlled by the Democrats? So what was the new equation?

The Tea-Congress making cuts the issue in order to stall the economy was the change in the equation. Make Obama fail at any cost - their stated goal. Even if the rest of us fail too. As long as the 2%, the job non-creators keep making record profits like they've been doing so off of our misery the last 3 years.

Isn't it ironic that you hear so little from big business about how to solve this problem. Why does everyone think that is? Could it be that they are too embarrassed to show their faces and they are just going to rape the country until they can't get away with it anymore?

It's kind of sad that American businesses used to relish being top dog and bragging about their accomplishments. Now it's like they want to steal away in the night so they don't get caught with their hand in the cookie jar?

Madison::: And didn't republithugs get their foot in the door by saying they were for JOBS, JOBS, JOBS-- but they didn't say they were for abolishing jobs and making higher unemployment numbers. The republithugs are just after one thing-- the White House. And to he11 with the common people-- they just get in their way.

And qualify your statement. Higher taxes on common folk would hurt the economy-- raise taxes on the working poor and they have less money to buy food, medicines. You must be one of John Boner's rich bitch friends.

Didn't Obama say in December 2010 that higher taxes would HURT economic recovery?

And didnt the GOP say that extending the tax cuts would 'remove uncertainty' and businesses would begin to hire? Tax Cuts extended.....companies still sitting on cash and not hiring. IN fact, they are creating new 'uncertainties' to keep their begging hand out for more instead.

FAIL, Madison. But thanks for playing.

Right on Susie! Dr. Evil would be proud of the republican party. "We'll hold the government hostage and release you for...... $1T dollars in corporate tax cuts!" They won't be happy until we resemble 18th century England, Bah humbug...

Susie, the poor don't pay federal taxes. Tim, do you really believe any politician cares about anyone but themselves?

No he didn't what he said is if you raise taxes on middle class and the poor then it will hurt the economy. There are some companies that are earning so much money and yet they pay little to no taxes and they are the ones that can afford the taxes. Or maybe they will start hiring people to get tax credits. Did you ever think of that? If I had to choose whether to give my money to the Govt or hire another person that's a no brainer.

wlee, can I deduce by your statement that you haven't voted in the past and don't intend to vote in the future beings you think all politicians care about nobody but themselves?

they took that pledge to help me..... The American People.

Old Vet, same plan same answer only the names have changed.

Well old vet why wouldn't they - there's nothing new about it. Its the same old "spend more, tax the rich" plan he's been pandering for 3 years.

Let's see the Teapublicans take their NoPlan on the road! Let's see Boehner go town to town telling people why they will STAY unemployed, why their bridges will be closed or collapse and why their kid's schools are still not wired for technology.

COME ON BOEHNER! Stand toe to toe with the REAL America and see how long you can take the heat!

He will run just like Cantor did, what a scared little chicken. Funny how they can't come face to face with the real American people who are out of work, no more unemployment benefits, no health insurance, no pension, no home, no food, but hey all 1.4 million unemployed workers are lazy and would rather not work. Half of these people posting do not have a clue what it is really like on the streets, or what its like to be unemployed or poor, they wouldn't last 1 hour on the street before running home to mama!

NoMad

Nope. They took a pledge to Grover Norquist. And it supersedes their pledge to the Constitution and the American people.

Nomad... while you may feel that is true... corporations are not people LIKE YOU! So why not tax them to stimulate job growth. Taking from the middle class to give to the middle class is a bit ridiculous don't you think? So who should be taxed to pay for this? You choose.

tstorm,Democrats are beyond sick, they would rather throw America into another "Great Depression"then stop spending. What a bunch of creeps. Depends on where you stand. Personally I think a flat tax and toning down of spending would be a good start.

Hm. 36 checks versus 1 check of support. Where do you think public opinion lies on this one?

wlee-950886: Thanks God you're nothing but 1 simple minded individual that happens to be part of a very, and increasingly small minority. READ MY LIPS: NO MORE TP/TERRORISTS PARTY, NO NEW OR OLD TEXANS!!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH YOU PEOPLE WON'T HURT US ANYMORE!!!

Cowboy::: Your GED mentality reads their ideas just fine. It's just these college grads with their worthless piece of paper and NO SMARTS that don't understand that the rich bitches-- corporations, jet setters, etc-- are the ones who are screwing this country and us plain folk.

I just wish that when I grow up I can be rich enough to own my very own politician too!

Hit the nail on the head cowboy, why would that upset you though? They expect us to vote against our own interest because we always do. We sat on our butts during the last mid-term didn't vote and let the tea party people into office - never again I hope. Wake up people!

Yes, I agree with the poster that said the economy is so bad that one big corporation had to lay off 20 senators.

cowboy just a little misstatement of facts, but why let those get in the way of a humorous rant.

But why the war in congress. The answer is so simple that the world knows it. From the Mouth of a republican leader who just woke up to see a black man in the oval office, its MAKE SURE HE (OBAMA) does not get a second chance. This is what the hostage of the country by congress is all about.Let us punish OBAMA regardless of the impact on USA.Colonial mentality.Let us make sure OBAMA does not get credit for any thing so he will not win a second time.Insanity.Let us never deal with what brought us where we are today and find solutions.Rather let us blame OBAMA.OBAMA never started any wars that drained our purse and left the country broke.He inherited the wars, the only product we offer globally, and our only product of global competition.

Solution 1 We in the USA need to learn how to compete globally.Example, how many American made products do Americans use in their individual homes or offices.How much of our products do we export to the outside world compared to China,Japan,India,Korea?Demand and supply is the answer not OBAMA.We have fallen out of competition in supplying the demands of the world.

Plenty of sound arguments rickster. You and your ilk are just too slow to comprehend them. Your brainwashing by Fox news is too strong for you to ever be able to understand.

cowboy, you touched on one point that irks me to no end, the seniors. I am a senior and judging by the videos of TP rallies and meetings a good sized portion of the TP members are seniors. All I can figure is that they have either been bought off or are entering senility beings there is NOTHING about the TP that is good for seniors!

Boehner, I'm your father! (que the heavy Vader breathing) exclaims Grover Norquist...

Cowboy - You got gyped on the G.E.D. If you actually listen - don't talk, don't think, just listen - you have not heard one single republican presidential candidate or member of Congress say that they would get rid of health care, education, social security, medicare or welfare. They have said that all of these programs are in need of reform and are economically unsustainable as they currently operate. Which is, of course, true.

joemike

Yeah right. Remember Ryan's plan? Get rid of medicare to give rich people more money. You have a short memory. And your insult about the G.E.D. is ugly. Cowboy sounds five times smarter than you.

Yes dangerous mind, I do remember Ryan's plan - actually read it. It did not get rid of Medicare. That's my point exactly if we don't keep your precious entitlements exactly as you like them we are "getting rid of" the program, or "killing grandma". Its just that sort of rhetoric, political not factual, that keeps us from going anywhere in the country.

That's their plan, I hope people wake up...

your prez is putting us there NOW. (3rd world country) that is what the GOP wants to stop. 

luvenia, why is it that all you under achievers hate people who are successful. How much do you donate to charities? Flat tax so you can quit your crying for your failures.

The only way the American worker can compete with the 3rd world worker his/her jobs are being outsourced to is to either raise their standard of living to ours, lower ours to theirs, or stop the competition through import tarrifs. Guess which one our benevolent paid-for "representatives" want?

In WI, OH we are well aware of their agenda, and we will NOT let them get away with this, we, the working families, are working hard to stop them and we will succeed, no ifs ands or buts. OH will reverse the Union busting, and in WI we will RECALL WALKER!

Next we will get rid of all the teabaggers & repugs in Washington!

Laura what percent of you people are union, what percent are nonunion?

When the Republicans and the Tea Party manage to get rid of all the Unions and that Nasty Minimum wage they can dance us into being a new third world country where everyone makes the same slave wages.

It never fails to amaze me that people are actually naive enough to believe this drivel. Only 12% of the workforce belongs to unions. Who exactly is protecting the rest of us from “slavery”? Fewer than 5 percent of people who earn an hourly wage make the minimum or less. So why aren’t the greedy corporations screwing over more of us now? Have you even stopped to consider that? Why isn’t everyone making $7.25 an hour since the government doesn’t force them to pay a higher wage? Try thinking for yourself instead of regurgitating the BS you’ve allowed yourself to be spoon-fed. Friggin clueless.

Ask Ohio, when over 1million people signed to repel the Union busting bill, maybe that will answer how many are nonunion members. The American people are well aware of the agenda of the repugs & baggers, especially the baggers, they will be on their way out come 2012. I have talked with former republican voters, and believe me, they want to know why their party abandon them, not the other way around, and they will never vote republican again, or least until the old republicans return, the ones that would at least compromise, instead of it's my way or the highway.

As for the Unions, people are realizing that the jobs that are out their, are just minimum wage jobs, which is what the unions and its members have been saying all along, this is what to expect when collective bargaining is taken away, and its only going to get worse, if we do not stop the onslaught to the working families of this country.

wlee-950886

Laura what percent of you people are union, what percent are nonunion?

I'm no math wizard, but I believe the correct answer is 100%.

So you are hoping that a bridge collapses and crushes Americans that are members of the tea party and the Republican party? Do you want them killed or just maimed and disfigured? What if they have their children with them? Do you want them killed too so that they don't grow up[ to be Republicans and/or tea party members?

So you are hoping that a bridge collapses and crushes Americans that are members of the tea party and the Republican party? Do you want them killed or just maimed and disfigured?

Dont be such a mouth-breathing reactionary , JC. Your distracting from the issue (typical Teabagger response) If a bridge does fail and your party voted down infrastructure bill that could have saved it (and any lives with it(), then America will be asking you why you let that happen. CONSEQUNCES, JC. There are consequnces to intransience and neglect of the public's safety in trade for yet another corporate tax cut

Speaking of wanting people to die...but...if you tuned nto the debate last night, you would know that the Tea Party audience wants to let people withouit insurance die if they become sick. Guess we were right, the GOP's anwser to Health Care for the uninsured is death

Yes, how sick was that last night??? The sad part is none of them said a word in defense of humanity after that comment. That's all you have to know about these candidates...

Tim, Seattle, thank you, at least someone understood my post. There have been many deaths due to the crumbling infrastructure but still they do NOT want to put people to work saying it would be temporary and that might be true if you think the next 50 years or so is temporary.

I love the way these propagandist take the cost of a project and divide by the number of workers then add what ever they please and say the cost per job was 2 zillion. Dose this mean the completed project has no value? Maybe the materials cost was zero and profits were zero. Why do these clowns that call themselves conservatives want to discredit workers in every way possible? Do they really think everyone can live on capital gains and banks, wall street and the commodities exchange will produce everything everything we need?

luvenia48: Plenty of Us understood your comment, but you cannot expect the Ridiculous simple minded followers of the TP / "Terrorist's Party" to comprehend or come up with anything productive all they do is hate, block, destroy and then... Hate some more.

What happened to that stimulus money that went to those shovel ready jobs,and speaking of hate jhon try reading some of your fellow Liberal comments on this story hypocrite.

wlee - here's where it went. How much did YOUR governor skim (like Perry did)
http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/default.aspx

JC, it was a figure of speech, but as usually you baggers have to take it out contents, just like Tim, Seattle said, go watch Faux and suck it up while you can!

Gramma, my Governor is a Democrat Jerry Brown you can look that up yourself.

they do NOT want to put people to work saying it would be temporary

That's because they know the "temporary jobs" would last past the next election. That would definitely throw a wrench in the GOP's stated objective of making Obama a one-term President.

And what part of wrong headed obstructionism did the wing nuts miss. Oh, that's right, they are still clinging to their "everything for the rich and powerful" mantra. If it causes us bankruptcy and ruin as a nation then, in the words of that coward Boehner, "so be it".

sfcret - that's the problem - the republicans don't agree with you - they will never give up the subsidies you note, too many lobbyists and too much money in that industry for them to piss off.

What part of just another Republican/TeaParty "NO" do you not see in this?

sfcret, the blind cannot see nor party hacks accept the truth. Have you ever heard a Liberal admit to being wrong?

Have you ever heard a Liberal admit to being wrong?

About as often as conservatives do, I'd guess.

FYI - In Dec of Dec 2009, Barack Hussein Obama signed into law a new tax law that included even further tax cuts. Guess what? When BHO signed that bill, it became HIS. Thus, we now have the Obama Tax-cuts. BHO may not like it but the "buck" does stop at his desk. Well ... if he doesn't spend it first or give it to other countries.

Lakerman2 - this is how far right that party has gone, way too scary for the mainstream. I really hope people wake up...

In the name of God man -- what two wars are you talking about?

When Bush lied us into two wars not only did he not repeal the tax cut but he jammed another tax cut through congress!

Do not say that Bush is to blame for Afghanistan. Almost every Dem voted to go to get Osama and then handcuffed the Pres when Osama slipped into Pakistan.

Don't forget that the Dems along with Clinton had the EXACT SAME intellegence for the decision to go into Iraq and again almost all of them voted to go in.

I'm a conservative and here is my stance:
Fix tax loopholes for everyone!
Simplify the tax code! (including limiting the mortgage deduction towards mortgages over 1 million dollars, and only on your primary residence... Gore has like 9 houses worth a million, Bush has 1)
Repeal Obamacare!
Quit borrowing from Social Security! (thanks Clinton!)
Require that all of the Politicians give up their life long pensions!

If you have a job realize that its a Corporations that writes your paycheck. The Government can not and should not ever be the largest employer of people in the country, but too late for that! By nature Government spends money supporting programs and providing defense for her citizens and brings in taxes to pay for it. but if all of the people that work in this country are employed by the Government then the people on the payroll pay 25% tax and eventually the government becomes bankrupt because it can't generate revenue by employing people to support other people. There is no added wealth generated by the government spending - only defense spending and research add wealth.

Thats why our country has continually had a "conflict" since the end of world war II. Its the only way to advance our "wealth"

lackerman, 9/11 remember, 10 year anniversary was two days ago. Why are we in Libya with boots on the ground?

awickar2 - small business employs more people than all the corporations combined. Time to stop feeding the pigs at the trough and start feeding the place where new jobs are born.

http://www.sba.gov/advocacy/7495/8420

GrammaKnows - Last time I checked my own family business had Incorporated at the end of its name. I was referring to the difference of government paid jobs verses private sector. Sorry for miscommunication.

Gramma,

Thanks for the great links.

awickar2, we "handcuffed" Bush? Wow! I have to give you credit, you have REALLY stretched the TP agenda of twisting facts! Were you asleep during that time or are you really that forgetful? Bush's aim was NOT to go to Afghanistan or Pakistan or any place else in search of bin Laden, all he wanted to do was sound the war cry, rile the citizenry into letting him get into a war so he could go where he wanted to go all along which was Iraq. If his statement that he "truly was not that concerned" about bin Laden (www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o) doesn't prove that I don't know what does. Don't you tea baggers realize that those of us who oppose you DO know how to use computers and DO know how to fact check your ridiculous, self serving statements?

I find it sad that the President HAS to run all over the country to get Americans to call, write and email their representatives to try to get them to DO THEIR JOB! I find it sad that the House cannot work for the betterment of America when people are hurting, people are losing everything they own and the GOTP thinks we can wait 14 more months, and what in 14 more months everything is just magically going to get better? Doubt it. Why can't we count on our politicians to do their job?

simple plan: help people get jobs - people spend money - economy improves, revenues go up - debt goes down - economy gets even better - more jobs.......

Actually - the specific reason cited by Standard and Poor for the rating downgrade were irresposible comments by hacks like Michelle Bachmann and other republicans that the debt ceiling "didn't really have to be raised". They further stated that this kind of brinksmanship by the republican party in particular was the largest contributor to the downgrade.

Facts are awfully stubborn things -

Achilles

@Time4aPurge

Its well established that you will go into contortions to slam the Obama Jobs Act proposal. But where is the GOP/Tea Party economic plan? The house is controlled by the GOP. Where are the JOBS BILLS?

WHERE IS THE GOP PLAN?

The reason the countries credit was down graded was because the republicans/teabagists seemed willing to default on the nations debt if they did not get what they wanted regardless of how much it would damage the country, and as for class warfare the rich have been waging that war for decades against the less fortunate, the less fortunate need to fight back to stop the robber barons tyranny. Get your head out of your a$$.

Tim, Seattle

The GOTP has proposed a few jobs plans. they never made it to the senate. The Plans/Bills had "GOTP Poison Pills" attached to them that included a bunch of deregulation on EPA standards and lowering Taxes. They were DOA!
Heck yeah we need to do away with all of those pesky EPA regulations, they are hurting America, we should use the Environment Plan China does so we could be competitive.

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

Dude, where have you been? Boehner and Cantor are the tea party mouth pieces... You know their plan, sit on their a$$ let the economy tank further, blame Obama and hope we're stupid enough to buy it in 14 months. So stupid that we'll vote for any damn body... Sorry I believe the majority of the American people are smarter than that.

Just another hater... Pay no attention

Achilles, you forgot to mention the S&P also blamed the Democrats for refusing to deal with entitlements I guess that just slipped your mind.

The Republicans really trust their plan. Their bold statement about how a Democratic congress couldn't pass a similar bill ignores how that bill failed is made with the knowledge that most people won't know their role in it. Republicans in the senate vote as a block 40-0 to fillibuster and get 1 Democrat to come over to their side. Bill doesn't pass. They did that with 80% of legislation in the first two years. They used a similar threat to keep the debt ceiling vote from happening. They state that Sen. Reid filibusters his own bill when in reality Reid knows he has to get 60 votes to pass anything. Has the GOP figured out the new way of doing government? You pass on a mess, don't allow the other side to pass anything that might resolve that mess and wait until the next election cycle. Should Democrats follow a similar strategy if they're voted out next year?

Wlee, do you even know what you're talking about when you say entitlements. They are talking about social security and medicare which you, me and everyone have already paid for. The problem in the budget isn't entitlements, people are entitled to use something they have already paid for. The problem is including entitlements in the regular budget and borrowing against that to make up for the deficit that all the other programs are running.

Ron not my words but the spokesman for S&P sorry if you don't like them

Here's the actual S&P statement, for anyone who's interested. Nothing in there about the Democrats "refusing to deal with entitlements." S&P actually places much of the blame on lack of cooperation.

http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245316529563

Achilles, that's all the republicans know - unleash the "job creators" mantra. Here are 5 job creator myths: 1) This deep recession is a temporary blip (the ecomony as we know is broken); 2) we can buy our way out of this (too much debt to make a dent and not enough revenues) ; 3) the private sector will make it better (they are hording capital); 4) we'll pack up and move for new jobs (we don't have the money or resources to move about the company in an unstable job market; 5) Entrepreneurs are the foundation of the economy (most have gone into the financial sector). Here's a solution:

I think the real point that everyone misses is the fact that both parties practice economic models that have been tried and failed if either was used as the centerpiece of an economic plan. Keynesian and Supply-Side economics cannot fix the current economy. When manufacturing as a base of GDP is less than 20-25 of the whole economy, your cooked. It destroys the middle class and makes way for a low wage service economy which is what we have. Both sides have contributed to this erosion over the last forty years. You can't rebuild that base by tax cuts or short term stimulus programs. Germany had this same problem after the fall of the Berlin wall. Their government started a partnership with the corporations, brought labor in and changed their secondary education system. Labor was placed on the boards of the larger companies, corporations got targeted incentives to keep the jobs here and used trade schools to recruit and train the skilled workers they would need to keep the jobs in country. They also used VATs against foreign imports. This isn't rocket science; we just don't have the political courage in this country to admit we have been wrong - since we pride ourselves as the creators of capitalism. Rome failed to adjust to a changing world too and look what their politics did to their empire - like a cancer from within. The nature of our politics brought us to this point. President Obama had the best of intentions going in but he is working against a system that doesn't want to be fixed and power brokers that don't want change.

Mav - Very good points all -

I agree Obama is trapped by a system that is now antiquated and not nimble enough to move with a quickly changing global economic landscape. However Obama does understand this and knows that we need to educate our way out of this as opposed to cut or spend our way out. He will do what he can with a minority intent on destroying him at the expense of the country. Great post Mav.

Mav...

Well said except it is the intention of both parties to change nothing as they are both tied to the revenue that sustains the 2 party system in America. It is really quite simple, without the funds of the super rich to run campaigns and maintain power both parties cease to exist.

They have both become very adept at promoting party based solutions while the super rich simply side with the party in power at the time to further their agenda, accumulating wealth.

There is no intent on either side to fix the problems that persist in America. It would mean the end for all in Washington and the free ride they have been on for the past 40 years.

Too bad most Americans including the ones on this vine simply refuse to open their eyes and realize it is all just a ploy!

Achilles, that's rather amusing after you say let's quit the hyper-partisan rhetoric you come back with Obama being the only adult in the room. Hypocrite

Not hyper partisan, just true.

He is a moderate trying to borrow republican and democratic ideas to solve a problem. He is not the socialist-crazy-radical-lefty that Hannity and Limbaugh pretend he is to get paid on pay day. He is merely just putting forward a balanced approach wlee. And to say he is the only adult in the room would not rise to the level of hyper partisan rhetoric - now would it? It will be fun to watch the republicans contort themselves to stake out positions against ideas they have always historically supported.

At some point the moderate middle of the electorate will catch on as more and more people tune in that Obama is a sincere and honest broker in the process.

I have a feeling your side will not be put in quite the same light.

Good Talk.

wlee..Is that really all you got out of his post?

so very tired of propping up union workers. I do not even know any union workers but I know plenty of people that do not have a job. Unless you are talking about Police associations, Firefighter associations and Teacher associations, those evil Unions! The proposal does not include tax hikes on middle class Americans, it does and should however include doing away with corporate welfare (unless a company brings operations back to America) and close tax loopholes, that is stuff that has to be done away with. When GE pays ZERO taxes, files a return and gets a refund from the IRS something is screwed up royally. I read a story that GE has 200 people on payroll and their only job is Tax Loopholes, it must pay off they get refunds on taxes they do not even pay!

Yeah, right, it must be the union's fault... I really dislike people who do not take responsibility for their actions or inaction...that would be the GOTP of today... the laziest people on the planet are sitting on the Right in congress.

Amen...

90% of American workers are not in Unions. Obama's job programs have basically only assisted union workers. Those unemployed among the 90% can just "go fish." Total unmitigated BS!

Raising taxes on the "Rich" causes those that are business owners to pass the added expenses on to us.

Fools, ignorant fools at that too!

We know that if taxes are raised on the "creators" that they are going to raise prices. After all they have to protect the bottom line. The thing is, they are raising prices on everything anyhow, just inflating their profits. When's the last time anyone saw gas below $3.30 a gallon? And the price of oil was down pretty good for a while. But gas remained around $3.50. So all I see is business making record profits at my expense and doing nothing to give back. Even the money that they give to "charity" is tax deductible.

Our 4 biggest banks have 8 trillion in assets and have been getting billions in 0% loans to play the market. How do you like supporting them. In the meant time they thank you by manipulating the commodities market and driving up the price of oil and gas. What we have is welfare for the bi rich. Foreign banks are stuffed with American cash. I doubt if many of those accounts are held by union workers.

Also, how crazy are we to pay a bank 600k for a 200k house when the taxpayer backs the loan? If all such loans were made directly for a small interest , home buyer and student loans would be reduced by half or more and trillions would be left with our people instead of thieving banks.

* Shrugs * ok, Dahly - don't employ union workers, prop up minimum wage earners instead. Corporate America hates regulations except the ones that say they can pay as little as $7.50 an hour, call someone a manager and pay no overtime, and have someone work 39.5 hours per week and pay no benefits. Corporate America just LOOOOVVVVEEESSS those regs!

What Job Creators, those wealthy people you are talking about, are NOT creating jobs, what is it that you people don't get. Corporate America hire, pay good wages & benefits, we spend, they win we win. Cutting taxes is NOT WORKING and hasn't been working for the last 10yrs, WAKE UP!

How is that "HOPE & CHANGE" working out for Americans?

Why is it that NO ONE EVER MENTIONS THAT EVER????

How is "Bank of America doing?"

Oops? Yes, they are AXING thirty-thousand employees? How nice?

Like "bailout Chrysler?" so they can become an ITALIAN OWNED company???

Yes sir, that was great!

Bailout GM or "bailout the UAW pension plan?"

FORD took NO BAIL OUT money and they are more successful than ever before?

I heard that is called "Capitalism and FREE Enterprise?"

Funny how that works with NO government help huh?

NO MORE BAILOUTS!

Speedy, Palm Harbor, Florida: What we really have no need for is anymore TERRORISTS in our Congress, our Government and, in our lives!!! WE ARE SICK AND TIRE of all the hardship that the bunch of ignorants that people like you elected to Congress have cause us and our Country, you guys are a cancer and WE THE PEOPLE WILL GET RID OF ALL OF YOU, WE WANT OUR GOVERNMENT BACK AND WE SHALL GET IT BACK, NO LONGER WILL YOUR ILK BE ALLOW TO HURT OUR ONCE GREAT NATION, WE WON'T LET YOU DESTROY WHAT'S LEFT OF OUR COUNTRY, NO MORE!! READ MY LIPS, NO-MORE-TEXANS, NO MORE TP/TERRORISTS PARTY YOU'RE ALL DONE!!!!

This "Jobs Bill" is a joke. Another 1/2 a trillion dollars down the drain.

Ok, so what is the GOP/Teabagging alternative? Got a Jobs Bill? Got SOLUTIONS? Lets hear them....

luke, you didnt seem to mind when the GOP added $800M over 2 years by insisting on retaining tax cuts for the wealthy and keeping corporate tax loopholes OPEN!! Why the hypocricy?? Of course, the 800lb gorilla in the room is that the GOP created this debt crisis, DELIBERATELY, so they could privatize SS, Medicare etc!

Luke never lets facts distort his stories...

News report (below) from last fall - we know what happened to the GWB tax cuts today, the gift that keeps on giving - lining the pockets of the rich and saddling the rest of us with debt.

Huge Numbers Projected
Last week, CBO projected a fiscal year 2010 deficit of $1.34 trillion, second-largest since World War II (with last year's being the largest). It also projected deficits totaling more than $6 trillion over the next decade. These are huge numbers, even though they track closely with earlier reports. But CBO's predictions are based on current law — meaning that they assume that the tax cuts expire on schedule. Extending all the Bush cuts through 2020 would add another $2.7 trillion to the debt.

It is all of the politicians, I don't care what party they are in. The only thing they are worried about is getting re-elected. They are all greedy sons of guns. And the problem continues when a new mind/body makes it to Sodom-on-the-Potomac, they are infected with the purile nonsense that the incumbents throw at them. Well son it just doesn't work that way. Just because it is the right thing to do, well that doesn't make it right.. you have to go along to get along.... THEY ARE ALL CROOKS!!! Interested in themselves and the business cronies who got them into office.

Sadly, you and "Rasman" are correct...

The GOP doesn't want GOVERNMENT jobs. That doesn't create more jobs. They do a job then they are done. We need jobs that will keep reproducing more jobs and so on. Government's job should be to protect and oversee. NOT DO. Let the private sector do the job creation. No, I'm not for all these Corporations getting all these tax breaks either but this HCF really tanked everything. No one wants to make a decision until we know what is actually going to hit us when this goes in full effect.

Well said!

The GOP doesn't want GOVERNMENT jobs. That doesn't create more jobs. They do a job then they are done. We need jobs that will keep reproducing more jobs and so on.

Demand creates jobs. Paychecks create demand. Even temporary jobs with temporary paychecks can increase demand, putting more people to work earning paychecks, which sustains and increases demand, thus creating more jobs, which leads to more demand, which leads to more jobs....

The GOP don't want government jobs because they would improve the economy and shoot down the GOP's chances in the next election.

GE backs Obama.............just sayin'

Tax breaks for companies hiring new workers is a fine idea. And a payroll tax cut isn’t bad, either. But both of these are short-term ideas which will invariably create an increased burden on companies after the temporary measure goes away. So then what, Mr. President? Oh yeah, I forgot. You only need this plan to work until November 2012.

dv.... and the tax laws that enabled GE to escape any taxes were passed under Bush and the GOP Congress!

I am a Republican, not rich and own a business. Democraps haver never created one long lasting job. Just pay backs to their union friends like you. Tax cuts for hiring new employees are a reduction in revenue only to be made up in the future. Investing in R&D would create long lasting jobs, but alast they are not Union jobs so it won't fly. And al the companies know that when the FORCED MEDICAL comes down in 2014, their costs are going to skyrocket. I have enough work to hire 1-2 people, but with Oboma looking to socialize our life, I am not going to be stuck with the burden. This is the reality of why there is no hiring, and busisness are holding on to their money knowing that the Demo-crap that is being fed to us I nothing more than a lie. Our cost are going Up..UP..UP in the near future and if you don't have any money your going to get more ruined than we already are!

Ed in CT - Nice try on the reason why businesses aren't hiring, but it isn't accurate. Consider the fact that there was no significant job growth under GWB, he was actually the worst president since Eisenhower in terms of job creation under his terms. Obviously presidents can't create jobs but nonetheless they are measured on the economy during their tenures. GWB's policies aimed to reduce regulation and cut taxes on the wealthy and corporations, if we buy your reasoning the GWB terms should have been boom years for the economy right? So what went so terribly wrong if the policies you state were in place? In actuality, president Obama has doubled down on many GWB policies. The health care industry supported the new health care plan. Am I missing something? Perhaps Keynesian and Supply-Side economic models will not work in this new economy - so let's not get into the typical political/ideological ping pong... We're not the players Ed, we're the ball...

I do not think he has to enrage the masses, the masses are not as dumb as the GOTP may think. We see with our own eyes and hear what a mess that the House is. I trulybelieve that for the first time, the sense of urgency for the economy and Jobs has taken center stage and it is about time it did. All that other debt ceiling BS just prolonged people getting help, people lose their jobs and homes everyday and no one has tried anything to slow or stop the bleeding. What, so we should just shudup and wait for 14 months? We should wait for the GOTP to take full control and everything in America will get better, HA!

I am not even a liberal or an Obama groupie but I do see the damage being perpatrated on our country for ideology sake!

x

Robert - We all see the world through our own biases. I sure do. Recent polling would suggest almost the opposite of what you are saying. Indendent and swing voters have turned big time on Obama and his policies. It showed in the 2010 election and very recent polling shows the majority of those independent and swing voters saying they see their political views closer aligned to the GOP. I am not saying they have turned REP. I am saying they are NOT buying what Obama is selling.

rational, you are right! The middle class in America has been under sustained attack since reagan. Time for it to stop! The country is TIRED of the GOP protecting the rich and corporations from pay their rightful share of taxes while the middle class tax burden has increased!