FR...Yes he did!!! And the Pathway should include a guest worker program....adios....

Ok, IR- just a handful of quick thoughts (all off-topic), then I have to beat it:

Newt says the OWS folks need to get a job after they take a bath. Is Newt’s solution to the starving children in Ethiopia telling them simply to “go buy more food, right after you shine those shoes”?

Michelle Obama gets booed at a NASCAR race. How many times was Laura Bush booed at any gathering?

IF Obama is SO bad, and easy to beat in 2012, why did the Romney campaign see a need for a completely dishonest and misleading ad buy?

Yesterday, No Jo was going on about how the 1% “don’t use police protection, because they live in better neighborhoods” and “the 1%ers kids go to private schools, not public ones” etc etc…… This would be kind of like me crying because I can’t have access to cancer chemo drugs, just because I don’t have cancer (I hope). What a ding-dong.

And for the humor aficionados- is it just me, or does Newt Gingrich look like Hank Hill’s dad, on King of the Hill?? Look again. He acts like him, too, doesn’t he?

OK- done.

For now.

Smokie I belive this about says it all

1. 1. (Ezekiel 18:20) - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

They are still here illegally. They broke the law to get here and are criminals. Most states will not allow illegals auto insurance or a drivers license. Ask people in border states how much their auto insurance premiums have gone up because of accidents involving illegals. Look at the nanny state of California; how many hospitals have been closed because of free emergency care they have given illegals.

Humane or not. Illegals ARE by definition criminals. They all must go. Arrest them. Fingerprint, photograph and take DNA from them. Check their fingerprints and DNA against unsolved crimes. If they are clean deport them. If the DNA or fingerprint checks come back positive prosecute them. The ones deported; if they come back (we would have fingerprints and DNA on file) put them in prison and make them turn big rocks into little rocks for 20 years. Then deport them again.

Newt said that some illegals should be allowed to stay because we need our lawns cut, Newt would be a perfect candidate for a dumb dumb toy.

This greedy, lying, opportunistic Newt blowhard is not the originator of the idea!

I agreed with the idea before Newt uttered it to get Hispanic votes.

RepubliCons promise everything like their 2010 Jobs!Jobs!Jobs!, but deliver things like banning collective bargaining and child labor laws!

Republicons believe in winning by lying - just look at the latest Romney ad taking President Obama out of context when he was actually directly quoting McCain!

I will vote a straight Democratic ticket in November2012. It's totally "Game Over!" for the party-before-country Republicons!

Newt is Nothing!

I wonder if people who advocate "throwing them all out" consider that-

Illegal immigrants cannot get welfare payments.

Cannot get Medicaid cards.

Reduced price or free meals for their children.

Only "Americans" can get those things.

Do you also realize that, since they are not here legally, while FICA and income taxes are withheld from their paychecks, they cannot file for refunds, or collect Social Security or Medicare- because they do not have legal Social Security numbers?

Therefore, they contribute- but take nothing back.

These are the ones who are the LEAST exploited by employers- but they are still likely to do jobs without the necessary safety equipment, hourly pay, or overtime due them.

Then, there are those who are in the underground economy. They get day work- so, no, there are no taxes paid- but they are grossly underpaid to do work most Americans would not touch- no matter their circumstances.

Sad, isn't it?

Consider, too, that many of these people are crime victims- at the hands of "Americans"- but never report the crimes for fear of being deported.

I want the border secured. It can be done, but the will must be there to commit the resources to do so. That will preclude our having the same conversation over and over again.

We do, however, need a system to deal with those already here. We cannot deport 11 million people- so forget that talking point. Give them a card other than green, that precludes them from attaining citizenship unless or until they return to their home countries and apply legally to come back, and solve the problem in a practical manner.

As to the work taken from "Americans"- well, we do have a problem when millions are unemployed, but illegal immigrants are needed to do work that needs to be done.

That is an attitude problem that America needs to address, no matter how uncomfortable the conversation may be. Perhaps we need to make it less desirable to "collect"- so people are motivated to work, no matter what the work may be.

In the interim, I consider it perfectly ridiculous to blame immigrants for the laziness of Americans.

Drive –by I think Mr.Krugman characterized Mr. Gingrich about right

Paul Krugman: Newt Gingrich Is ‘A Stupid Man’s Idea Of What A Smart Person Sounds Like’

As far as Nojo goes there’s no telling what will come out of that fevered little mind. I’ve long since quit trying to make sense out of nonsense. Life is to short to dance with ugly women.

I have to say I'm a bit surprised by the xenophobia displayed in the last First Read story about Gingrich's comments coming back to hurt him. Comments like Smokie's above comment are tame in comparison.

This is a country of immigrants and contrary to Smokie's assertion that, "Nobody gave us a break," yes, they really did. On the Statue of Liberty are the words of Emma Lazurus:

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

But I guess those words no longer apply in this America, thanks Republicans.

Smokie also says, "hey have been stealing from us for all of those years and you want to give them a break?" Actually, we have been stealing from them. Many of them pay into Social Security and Medicare for decades and never receive a penny in benefits.

Newt's down fall will be that new staff of Tea-Retard clowns and their dirty laundry from Bachmann. Newt its time to take a bath, you GOP losers are dirty !

And thanks to you Betty for the well wishes. A prayer and a good thought from all the Hill Folk for a peaceful Thanksgiving spent with folks you love and cherish to all my F.R. friends and foes.

Where do you draw the line? If you've been here 10 year you're okay but for 9 years and 364 days you're out?

They know that they're here illegally - you can see this by how quickly they vacated Alabama. It seems the only ones who don't see this are the ones saying "Illegal aliens have rights too!" (Seemingly ignoring the first word of their statement)

Life isn't always fair. You reap what you sow. These are important values that my parents ingrained in me. I guess that makes me a freak of some kind

So if I rob banks for 25 years before being caught, I should be allowed to continue doing it with amnesty?

No.

Breaking the law is breaking the law. It's not fair to the people that follow the process, dotting all their I's and crossing all their T's, to be denied while people who did it illegally are allowed to stay. It's not that I don't empathize with their plight, but I have no sympathy. They new they were doing it illegally when they started and they knew the potential consequences.

All this will do is encourage illegals to come here and have children, before they're even able to support them (hello, welfare, my friend!), and place a bigger burden on our already over-burdened welfare system.

nisl likes to put quotes up, and to that I say this: You are 100% correct about the words on the SoL. Only problem is: There's a process for this. It's not an open door. This country couldn't handle the influx of people if it was an open door. Ya gotta follow the rules.

We should not even try to solve anything in this anti-people for-the-rich political climate. Any and all legislation today has hidden "my party" tricks that do not become apparent until well after the legislation is passed.

So if we try a "humane" solution today, it will not be and will most likely contain trade offs that will eat at us in the future.

Let's solve the political climate first. Expose the false tax-haters for what they are. Reverse the "corporations are people" idiocy in our political campaigns and anywhere else it exists. restore taxes to a sane level for all. And get back to the country of understanding we used to be.

IR, short and to the point.

We hear so much about closing our southern border as the solution. No, it's only part of the solution. A complete overhaul of our immigration laws to allow more legal immigration and establish worker permits is the first part of the solution. We hear people complain about those illegals using our schools and getting medical care free yet by not giving them some measure of legal status, we prevent them from obtaining health insurance and from obtaining jobs where payroll and income taxes are deducted. Fixing the rules first would likely reduce the need for an outrageously expensive fence we can't afford and which won't work.

An Individual, funny thing--John McCain complimented Mitt Romney for the ad which quoted McCain not President Obama which tells me McCain and Romney are two peas in a pod, they reached a new low for lies.

Hey Newt, I got a question for you if the folks are here "illegally" then that means they are using fake SSN which means they maybe payting taxes via a payroll deduction but if the person whos SSN is being used and they happen to also file a return the person who has the SSN legally has to fight with Uncle Sam to correct the tax error all the while the illegal keeps sending their money back hime and keep reaping the benefits of our hand-out system. So to say they having been obeying the law for 25 years while being here illegally does not make sense.

As for those who think these same illegals dont get public assistance is wrong. All they have to do is provide a false SSN and False Birth Certificate or better yet just pop out a kid here and the Government will feed you, clothe you, provide medical services for you and also provide housing for you. If this was not the case then so many states would not be bitching about how the ILLEGALS are draining our resources meant for LEGAL American citizens.

All of you who think this is cruel to ship these folks out then let them live with you and you provide their needs since you all seem to believe they are only here working to get a better life.

So the longer you commit a crime and reap the rewards of it at the expense of others, the more "acceptable" and "legitimate" the crime becomes? and therefore you should be rewarded even more at even more cost to your long-time victims?

Liberal fantasy will truly be the end of Western civilization.

so killing people for their land is not a crime. but living in a criminals slums and being his slave is?

They know that they're here illegally - you can see this by how quickly they vacated Alabama.

And the thousands of acres of produce ROTTING in the fields!

For once why don't you all set aside the knee jerk emotional reactions?

Try to actually educate yourselves on things like taxes paid, benefits denied, employers who prey on cheap labor, etc...

I wonder why the poll is currently at 75% in favor of it?

Clearly being in the minority doesn't sit too well with some folks! ;o)

no joe, no bo, nj

Holy Cow! I actually agree with you!

Must be the holiday season or something. We haven't had Thanksgiving yet, so I know it's not food poisoning!

Nice post. Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

You could only deport the people that entered illegally, all their children that were born here are US citizens, how do you deport a US citizen. What if you attempt to deport an illegal with small children and they say OK but my kids will stay here they are US citizens and I will leave them here, now what do you do? Are we going to arrest them for abandoning their children and put them in a US prison? Are you going to deport them and then put the kids into the custody of the state? It is not going to be so easy, because the children born on US soil are US citizens. If the parents simply refuse to take their children with them because they feel they would have a better chance here it presents a tricky situation. If you change the law to say that the children born here are not us citizens unless their parents were naturalized citizens at the time of their birth, then will you strip Marco Rubio of his citizenship status and his position as a US senator. If you start tweaking those laws you will likely find you just created a lot more illegals aliens out of people who had previously been legal citizens, under the old laws. I suspect you will have to come up with some kind of amnesty arrangement for some of these people or build some orphanages, because I don't see what you can do if they simply say deport me but my kids are citizens and I will leave them here in the US.

Reagan's mistake was granting amnesty without securing the border and here we are again with the same problem. People remember that mistake. Somebody has to secure the border FIRST so they have the credibility to talk about a solution again. And the path to citizenship has become a barrier to the solution. Citizenship means voting and that makes its a political football for the partisans and a law/order problem for people who dont want criminal voting.

Jo Joe==

Do you also realize that, since they are not here legally, while FICA and income taxes are withheld from their paychecks, they cannot file for refunds, or collect Social Security or Medicare- because they do not have legal Social Security numbers?

If illegal immigrants are employed by any company those companies that are themselves them illegal and should be fined for breaking another law. So if that is the case we are to answer a crime with a crime? Can we actually say that we are a country of laws? Might as well just throw all the laws out.

Unfortunately about 25% of the people in this survey believe severe pain should be inflicted on others to keep their comfortable material lifestyle intact. Even when they clearly don't deserve it. Easily fooled, gullible and ignorant, such people will vote Republican no matter what. These are the same people who called for Barabas to be released.

As a liberal I absolutely love seeing Republicans displaying their xenophobic know-nothing attitudes.

Keep it up guys, the more you do it the better off all of us (liberals) are. If the wingnuts want to shrink their party down to just fat old white people I'm not going to get in their way. I'm certainly not going to remind them that fat old white people tend not to have the highest life expectancy.

Simply put- here's how you FIX the illegal immigration problem:

1. Put all of the LEGAL immigrants (that is- those actually following all of the laws and current regulations to immigrate legally and legally become US citizens) preferential treatment in ANY changes in immigration policies. We aren't against immigration, but we need to reward those doing it the right way first. They get first opportunity to become US citizens. Period.

2. Anyone living here illegally gets 3 months to get registered and get a temporary immigrant ID. This is so that we can log them, do background checks on them, give them temporary worker status (with a tax ID number so that they pay income taxes) and a state of temporary residence. If they don't log on in three month, they forefeit their "right" to do so and get immediately deported when found. "Amnesty" isn't supposed to make more people want to come here from this point on- set a hard boundary.

3. All logged immigrants get thoroughly vetted for criminal backrounds, illegal drug use, gang affiliations, diseases (yes diseases and health problems- it's been that way for a LONG time with legal immigration). Anyone failing those tests- felony, TB, etc. get deported.

4. Those passing the new immigration review get a new immigrant status- temporary LEGAL Immigrant. It further entitles them to work and pay taxes. Then they are enrolled in a 5 year program to become a US citizen. Hey, if they want to stay they can learn US history, learn english, and learn our societal expectations of them. If they fail to obtain US citizen status in 5 years (should be their 1st priority after going to work because they are getting the chance at all) their immigration status gets downgraded to temporary worker/immigrant which exposes them to the same reviews, etc. of other temporary immigrants wanting to stay here (harder process).

5. A month or two before we bring this before the public we need to secure the southern border. Again period. Send National Guard forces to work with the Border Patrol, heck build the freekin' fence we set up that $700 million fund for, and ebb the free flow of people into this country.

6. Rescind all "children of illegal immigrants" bonuses- in-state tuition, etc. because they will no longer need it as their parents will now have status in a state.

7. Remove the baby is a citizen rule so that in the future we have more control of people just coming into our country to download a baby so they can stay. The other way is to rewrite it as "the child of a legal immigrant get's citizen status when the parent is granted US citizenship". Pretty simple, don't screw up parents.

That's how you FIX immigration. Don't need to be a politician to figure it out.

This country spends trillions protecting the borders of middle eastern countries from un-wanted insurgents, but when it comes to sealing our own borders it is said to be an impossible task, well that's bull$hit, fact is congress wants illegal to stream across the borders otherwise we would have drones flying over our borders just like we do everywhere else on this damned planet. There are really only 2 reasons why this country allows illegal’s to stream across our border lowering the average Americans standard of living.

1) The republican reason = cheap labor that can be exploited, and the fact that that this illegal work force drags down wages and benefits across the board for all Americans, a win/win in the republicans eyes.

2) The Democrat reason = An ever growing voting block that they try to bribe by giving services and benefits meant for Americans , hell in most cases ileagals receive preferential treatment over American citizens.

That's the 2 reasons; everything else heard being discussed on this issue is nothing more than meaningless rhetoric aimed at hiding these 2 reasons.

verno

Smokie, you mean the ones paying income tax, social security that they will never get back, sales tax, vehicle tax, rent, buying groceries and that type of things. Is that what you mean by stealing from us?

No, I think he means this.

In the U.S. unreported income is estimated to be $2 trillion resulting in a "tax gap" of $450–$500 billion.

The only way to truly tax equitably is with a Fair Tax which would eliminate this massive shortfall in revenue.

The question itself is misleading, there are many possible "pathways" and not all of them are equal. I do believe there should be a process by which these people could become citizens but at the same time those processes were in place when they originally arrived and they circumvented the law to live here illegally.

That being said, no one has a problem dividing a family by putting members of that family in jail if they commit a crime, after all we are a nation of laws. To put it as plainly as possible these people are committing crimes by being here illegally, hence the "illegally" part. Obviously the degree of that crime varies in the minds of each of us and there are many different circumstances under which people have come to this country and under which each of them lives. I do believe a large majority of illegal immigrants would go through legal channels to live here if they did not have a legitimate fear of deportation, especially considering what many have gone through just to get into this country.

Unfortunately, no matter what we ultimately decide to do as a nation, economics is going to factor into our decision. Ideally, we could allow all illegal immigrants to go through the same process as legal immigrants to become citizens but that all carries with it a cost. We could then also determine their crimes were minor, assign them to a type of probation officer to make sure they're abiding by the law, becoming legally employed, etc. but that too carries a cost. I don't abdicate just saying "you're all now citizens, congratulations" because, again, we're a nation of laws and that would pretty much say our immigration policies don't matter but I also think it's drastic overreaction to simply deport all illegal immigrants as for most the only illegal thing they've done since being here is, well, being here.

Thank you JoeNY for your reasoned and well stated suggestion!

There needs to be no more pathway than the one that exists : leave the country and re-enter legally.

The U.S. has been abysmally loosey-goosey on this for far too long.

I rarely agree with what No Joe posts but on this day before Thanksgiving, find that I agree with most of what she said. Well done.

America does need to have a serious conversation, a serious debate and discussion on Capitol Hill, and find a solution instead of the every two year--pull the illegal immigrant issue out of storage and play politics with it.

President Obama, accompanied by daughters Malia and Sasha, just pardoned "Liberty" and his backup "Pete" who will now head to Mt. Vernon to live long and leisurely lives. As President Obama said, Thanksgiving is a completely American holiday.

Take time to enjoy and be thankful for family and friends who are what is really most important in our lives. Be grateful for what we have rather than envious of what we don't have. Happy Thanksgiving!

Forrest Grump, well said!

Forrest Grump 2.0===So lets not enforce any immigration laws? Gee I wonder just how many people you would let stay in this country? What about all of the expenses we have paid for these children? They all go to good schools, better than most, some even make it through college are you going to pay for all of that?

We wonder why we are $15 trillion dollars in the hole when we have illegal immigrants all over the place. So what is the solution? We have mass deported illegal immigrants before this is nothing new for this country. We have to have a balance someplace. So where do we draw the line?

I still say if they are illegally kick them out we have more Americans out of jobs than we have had in a very long time. A lot of jobs are lost to the illegals in this country. The problem of illegal immigrants families are their problems and not ours they created them. We didn't help by not enforcing the laws to begin with. So enforce them now. As for the rest let the illegals figure it out themselves they are the criminals and not us.

So what if you came over when you were 2 years old. And have lived in the US for 16 years. our now 18 years old. Prob graduating High School with friends you have known your whole life. Grew up with. Maybe you dont even know Spanish. I assume those people who are as American as you can get since they have lived thei whole lives to adulthood should be sent and dropped off in a Random Mexican town? Thats your black and white solution. Sounds like a lovely country to people who are more American and prob only know American ways

First, I am sorry Newt said that because he would be a great president and, at the very least, would make Obama ramble even more incoherently in a debate. But that comment lost if for him. Right after Perry said in a previous debate that if you are against in-state tuition for illegal immigrants you "don't have a heart". The next day his poll numbers started to fall and he is irrelevant now. This will now happen to Newt as well. Don't think I am a Newt "hater" and quite the contrary. I wrote Newt back in 2007/2008 and BEGGED him to run because I saw the danger of Obama (which was worst than I thought Obama could actually do). And this time around I was a strong Newt supporter and so glad to see his quick rise over the last several weeks. But this comment has dropped him off my list. You CANNOT run a country without adequate control of who comes in. Sorry Newt, get ready to see your poll numbers drop.

Second, it amazes me that so many in this thread defend the illegal immigrants. These people BROKE OUR LAWS the VERY FIRST day they arrived!! Then disregarded our laws going forward which, for some, is YEARS!! NO!! They CANNOT be rewarded for illegal behavior.

I say we secure the border then require ALL companies that within 6 months to have available for audit a birth certificate and/or passport as documentation for every worker they have. If they get audited and do not have proper documentation for their employees they can be fined up to $250 for each employee they don't have U.S. citizen documentation (of course we would be sensitive to honest mistakes and only a "warning" if clearly not intended to circumvent the law). If an employer is found hiring an undocumented (aka "illegal") employee it is a mandatory $2500 fine for each.

Initiate the above law and I GUARANTEE you will have significant decreases in illegal immigrants. If they can't make money they can't afford to stay and businesses won't risk a potential $2500 fine for each illegal worker.

So now illegals leave the country and everyone claims it will affect our economy. Why would you say that? All we need then is a "fastpass" process for LEGAL immigrants. Go through the proper steps, show you can be self-reliant, show us you have skills that will allow you to make a living in the U.S., AND confirm from businesses that certain workers are needed then LEGAL immigrants can enter on a 1 year temporary work visa. If you can prove that you can continue to find work and be self-reliant then there is a "fastpass" renewal process. Those here illegally would have left (although we would not know who they were) but can quickly get in line at the "fastpass" line and if they can qualify then they can get a 1 year work visa as noted above. But they don't go to the FRONT of the line but get in the BACK of the line. That is your punishment for disregarding our laws.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

And the thousands of acres of produce ROTTING in the fields!

Perhaps the "Occupiers" could go get a job. No?

I'm sure the farmers would even give them a plot of land to pitch their tents.

Smokie, I did not say we should never enforce any immigration laws, I said children born on US soil are US citizens, no matter how their parents arrived here, no matter what their citizenship status was at the time of the child's birth. That is the current US law, and it has been the law for a very long time. Those children have every right to attend public school they are US citizens, how do you deport a US citizen. The parents are illegal, they committed a crime, the kids born on US soil are US citizens and have the full rights that citizenship affords, they have stolen nothing, and no US court could support their deportation without making a mockery of themselves and the value of US citizenship. If you can deport them as US citizens then what other US citizens can you deport if you so desire. It's just not that simple, so again, how do you deport a US citizen?

Most Americans miss the boat on immigration, because they are so focus on being a citizen. For once I agree with Newt. We cannot just "throw" everyone out. There is something that is call a legal permanent resident. You have all rights afforded to you, but you cannot vote. You can be drafted or enter the Arm Forces, but you cannot vote. There is no reason that the government (expect lack of political will) could not setup a system to flag anyone that was here illegal for years, but now would like to be placed in the system and work on becoming a legal resident of the United States. Barring any crimes or things that would get even a naturalize citizen stripped of his or her status, they should be place in a new group of immigrants who would have to wait let's say 10-15 years (for argument sake), before they would be reviewed for citizenship acceptance. While still keeping the (5 year) track for people who entered correctly. So, for the GOPers worrying about new voters, this would satisfy that crazy notion and this would essentially move these people to the "back" of the line. We are not going to stop illegal immigration, so we have to deal with it sooner or later. Look at the new law in AL. They are now people who are pushing to repeal it. It might sound good on paper, but terrible in practice. Sometimes we need to embrace certain solutions, even though they might not be perfect at the time. Happy Thxgiving Everyone!

Ask people in border states how much their auto insurance premiums have gone up because of accidents involving illegals

If we allow them to get driver licenses we can require them to carry liability insurance. If we make it a crime to get a driver license, we are essentially making it a crime to carry liability insurance.

Insurance rates aren't going up because of the immigrants, they're going up because of the BIGOTS.

The majority of illegals coming into NYC are Irish, Polish, Russian, and folks from the countries of the former Soviet Union...and anyone who eats even ONE meal in a restaurant is contributing and abetting illegal immigration here as 99% of the bus and kitchen staff are illegal Mexican immigrants. Proposing draconian or punitive solutions to the problem shows a lack of understanding and a surfeit of rational pragmatism...

Several points here:

1) The GOP needs to man up and take its share of blame for the current mess. Reagan gave unconditional amnesty to 4 million illegal immigrants and conditional amnesty to about 8.2 million others. This created a mad rush to the border as immigrants assumed that future presidents would do the same.

2) The Obama administration, as of the end of September had deported over 18 times the number of illegal immigrants than in the GHW Bush and both GW Bush terms combined. Every month since Obama took office, except for 2, has set a new all-time record in deportations.

3) One problem that is developing is the number of illegal immigrants that are in college and the number who have served or are serving in the U.S. military. It has become very popular for mean-spirited people to "out" these people out of jealousy and spite. This is the primary reason that deportations of certain groups --- military, college students, kids who don't speak their natal language, etc.

4) There is a serious need in this country for a guest worker program. Period. This ios a win-win-win situation where everyone benefits.

5) Tuscaloose Alabama police just arrested a German Mercedes executive who was visiting the local Mercedes plant and who had left his passport in his hotel room. This was a huge embvarrassment. The states of Mississippi and Alabama have spent over $100 million of taxpayer money to get the Chinese government to build two car plants in the two states. The Chinese are now reconsidering because they don't want to be harrassed and are probably going to build the plants on the west coast which is considered more Oriental-friendly.

6) The state of Alabama is scrambling to make up the $100-$120 million in lost tax income from the flight of illegal immigrants. The indirect costs to both the state and to local governments could easily be another $400 million. So much for "illegal immigrants" don't pay taxes.

7) Regardless of right wingnut theories, illegal immigrants do pay taxes, and are much below average users of public services. In fact, both the federal and state governments actually profit off illegal immigrants because of this. This is because they confiscate payroll taxes and income tax overpayments.

8) Illegal immigrants do not vote. Period. There is not a single case of a successful presecution of an illegal immigrant for voter fraud. Around 95% of all voter fraud is done via absentee ballot, reform of which is strongly opposed by the GOP. The idea that there is a voting bloc of illegal yellow-dog Democrat immigrants is pure urban myth.

9) In Alabama, the cost of the uninsured motorist portion of my car insurance will triple on the next re-up. This is because illegal immigrants can no longer buy liability insurance and are forced to drive without it because of the drivers' license laws. In Alabama, instead of renewing your tags and drivers license on the internet or by mail, it must now be done in person with a large number of documents. Average wait --- 6 hours in line.

Hating people is the American way. Sad to say.

JoeNY,

Excellent post! I know first hand the struggles with legal immigrants that play by the rules. My girlfriend is one of those individuals. Over the last 3 1/2 years she has paid nearly $10K in immigration fees and lawyer fees. She has also paid into SS (which people here on a H-1 visa are not supposed to pay). She is frustrated by those that claim illegals should be given preferential treatment or given a pathway to citizenship ahead of those that have chosen to abide by our laws to become a citizen. It is a slap in the face of those that actually understand the privledge of becoming a US citizen. I would love for once for one of these illegal immigrant lovers to explain to my girlfriend why criminals should be given a free pass when she has to play (and pay) by the rules....

Hey, Drive-BY--where have you been lately? Missed you. Good post today. Sounds like it'll be too late for you to get this, but Happy Thanksgiving!

IR,

Some of the folks that have lived here a long time are better Americans than the folks that would run them off.

That is so sadly--yet profoundly--true.

It amazed me that now Newt has spoken on two subjects where I have agreed with him - one was against gov't meddling in "social engineering", for which he was severely trounced by his party, and the other his call for rational action on immigration - he'll get hammered for that too.

There is not a single candidate for the GOP that I would vote for at this point. Romney, although Mormon, might have been one I would have considered for 2016, but he has pandered to the lowest rung of the right wingers - so he's out of the running forever for me.

let's hope smokie and his ilk can get over their misguided anger and have a decent bowel movement this year -- MORE FIBER!

Have a happy and safe Thanksgiving everyone. If the Indians thought of us the way the current Republithugs think about Mexicans WE would not be here right now, something to think about this Thanksgiving.

And yes, a guest worker program would solve a lot of our problems.

Being here a long time just means they knew they were illegal, for a long time.

If you steal a car and use it to go to work for years without getting caught, your still a car thief.

You may note the exception always cited is if they've done something criminal. Entering illegally is a misdemeanor. However, many use fake or stolen ID. This is a serious crime, even at crisis-level now. We know this because e-Verify is not reliable even if employers use it. Illegal activity is why the term "illegals" are used, and this cannot be ignored without same-level punishment -- Whether as a part of the path to citizenship or deportation for more serious offenses.

However, church-going should have nothing to do with citizenship. Newt mentions this criteria twice. WTF? What if we applied morality to becoming POTUS--Newt, you're not eligible! Ging-Grinch is a piece of work!

ProBusiness is funny. I supported Newt, and will continue to support him after his remarks. Basically, the solution you describe is what Newt and others have been talking about for years, a way to become legal. Call it "Fastpass", amnesty or whatever, its the same thing.

Those posting about babies born in the United States, you do realize that China's women are coming here every day to have their babies so they can have American citizenship along with China's.

To the poster who stated to give the jobs to OWS protestors (rotting produce), they went to college so they could better themselves to get good jobs once out of college. The Jobs need to come back to America and only the Welfare Corporations can do that, or we can pass more laws making import taxes so high and then nobody buy what they bring in. It wouldn't take long.

I think Thanksgiving is a wonderful time for the family and their friends. However, if the Native Americans did not provide food for the pilgrams they all would have starved the first year in Massachusetts. So, before you continue to be hateful, most of us should be glad that the Natives of this land helped us out. And, we turned around and murdered them. This really is not our land, it belongs to all. The earth do not belong to us.

The TP Republicans are the first to cry about abortions killing babies, but do not care about the little ones once born? No they do not.

I am a hardnosed Democrat, since I voted Republican once and have regreted ever since. But, Newt is right on this issue, just as Rick Perry was right on the vacine. We have the first known cure for cancer and the right is about saving women's lives.

I truley believe the TP/Republicans of this day and age are mean hateful nasty people. (Even if NoJo sounded sane today.)

Those who believe in the Bible, you certainly do read in it that Lord Jesus was/is a bloody liberal.

Force all employers to pay a living wage to all employees and set up a through screening through the SS department so that Americans will take the jobs. Then open the pathway for employees who have been good workers and good members if the community to become citizens.

This would increase the cost of living to a small degree, but I would be willing to pay a bit higher price in order to help my fellow human beings find security and happiness.

no joe:

[I wonder if people who advocate "throwing them all out" consider that-]

Gotta give credit where credit is due...thanks for the post.

Happy Thanksgiving

Of note, the unemployment rate in Alabama has dropped from 9.8% statewide to 9.3% between October 5 and October 31, the first month of Alabama's newly enacted Immigration Reform statute. A large factor is a phenomenom called 'self deportation'.

Unemployed Alabamians whose unemployment benefits have run out are stepping into the agriculture jobs vacated by the self deported.

These improved unemployment numbers in Alabama will not swing the State of Alabama in favor of re-election of President Obama in 2012.

if you check your facts, scotty, you'll find a large number of alabamians have left the state chasing their sisters/cousins into mississippi during the fall rut.

Hey here is an idea, if we can deport the children of illegals who are born on US soil and therefore US citizens, we can deport the business owners who knowingly employ illegal aliens, they are at least as guilty as the children born to the illegals. They skirt taxes and use resources they do not deserve and have not earned, unlike a child that is born to illegal parents, they have made a conscious decision to break the law and have been profiting from their crimes for many years. I say we send them packing as well, when their money runs out, maybe some wealthy Mexican business owner will be kind enough to take advantage of them, and the legal citizens of Mexico.

Scott, check out this report from: www.arisecitizens.org/ . Scroll about 3/4 th down the page and read Immigration law failing to reduce unemployment.

JoeNY #1.30

I definitely agree with you and thanks for you reasoned approach, But as a student of history, most of what you are talking about is the way it used to be. before we became "Enlightened" and closed all the immigrant processing centers.

Not everything from the old days was bad.....

NJNB -- If someone steals a real Social Security number, they could get government services. They should apply for citizenship--you can get an immigration lawyer for what they pay to a Coyote to smuggle them in. They don't want to wait, because the quota for countries to the south of our border exceed the quota very quickly.

To date the misdemeanor of entering illegally has been ignored. Committing fraud with fake ID, or stealing a Social Security number is more serious. If you or I get busted for a DUI or even a parking ticket it goes on record. Rule of Law must be enforced for everyone, not just legal citizens.

Give them a path to citizenship, by all means, so wages will go back up in service industries. But these crimes need to be in their police record. My guess is it would then be harder to get a job unless they lie on the application. Hmm, you don't suppose this is why they never apply for citizenship? They know what they're doing is illegal.

Funny how the "poll" on MSNBC is exactly the opposite of real-world polls.

from CNN:

How will backing limited amnesty for longtime illegal immigrants affect Newt Gingrich's GOP campaign?

Hurt 45% 6918

Neither 28% 4222

Help 27% 4187

There not that far apart Pjam this poll only had two choices the poll you cite had three choices. This poll said 27% said it would not hurt him your poll says 27% thinks it will help, the other question says 28 % feels it makes no difference so either way those numbers are close, there is a bit of interpretation between the two choices and the three choices if you interpret the neither as it may help as much as it may hurt then either way the 28% is close to the 27% that says it does not hurt or you can go the other way and and add that to the 45% that says it will hurt and you get the 73% that this poll finds. The help numbers are are the same and if you add the neither to the hurt then they are the same. The indication is that if that both polls had the same 2 questions or the same three questions they would be very close to exactly the same results. Aside from the poll results the conservatives that posted here on the topic suggest that the vast majority of them do not like his idea of "amnesty" no matter how long they have been here. Judging from most of the posts here from monikers I recognize as conservatives, his idea seems too liberal for them, it certainly seems too liberal for you. In any event both polls have a majority thinking it hurts him, and virtually the exact same number saying it does not hurt him. Did Fox take a poll because that may poll the greatest number of people that actually vote in a republican primary.

It didn't hurt him, I'm conservative and again it didn't hurt him.

This issue is one of those that doesn't hurt hardcore "law & order" republicans because sadly whichever way the issue works out it can be viewed as a benefit for america. So in this election cycle it's a non issue.

Where the grinch can be hurt? His foreign policy, So far his policies ring true with the HARD CORE ultra rightys, unfortunately, his policies bring us more in line with the hard core communist block when it was headed by Stalin. Plays on fears and makes us look like the world bully we have often appeared to be in the world.

I have multiple family members who have served and died over seas. I support our boys and they need to come home.

Understand one thing, The Spirit of America in not dead, the people around the world know this as do their governments. If you look at the worlds reactions to 9/11 and their, in some cases, hard moves to get out of our way, some of the least cooperative governments opening their doors to allow us to get at the taliban. Part of the reason was that they understood one of the longest standing geopolitical facts in the modern world. America, Yes AMERICA, is the strongest country on the planet. This has been known since approximately 1936 or '37, it was cemented with our handling of WWII, It was cemented with our spiritual reaction to Pearl Harbor, and recently reinforced with our spiritual reaction to 9/11.

Attacked from any side, AMERICA, pulls together, puts aside it's petty differences, and finishes what someone else started.

Acting the part of the bully is not american, it is the way of the people who want to gain power and dominion over the weak. The power of america is in Non Involvement, not isolationism as some on the ultra right, or even the ultra left for that matter, make it out to be.

America does NOT have a manifest destiny any more.

There is only one man who has the right picture of how american power can best be utilized.

RON PAUL

All the people crying for change in the status quo, change in the corrupt government we now have, should be suporting the ONLY Honest Honorable man running today.

It is a sad state of affairs where over half the country would re-elect people who they know are liars and con artists.

Einstein had a statement, actually it's a pretty common statement made over the years by various intelligent people of note,

"Repeating the same experiment over and over expecting different results, is the most insane pastime of man"

I don't think there is any hope for america.

And one more thing,

Quote: (i usually don't quote myself)

"Attacked from any side, AMERICA, pulls together, puts aside it's petty differences, and finishes what someone else started."

THIS, Is as Christian as it gets

That's if they come to this country legally and not sneaking in the back door. What do you say to all of those that have come here before the legal way? What do you say to the ones that came here illegally? Come to America and we will not enforce enforce the immigrations of this country? If that's the case you had better start paying more taxes because we can not afford to feed and care for the people we have here now. Just take a look at the economy.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do everything this is no different. If they are illegally kick them out and let start over from the beginning.

Think about what it took to get in here legally when that was placed inside the statue of liberty. Think about what it takes now. The point of my post it to expose the degradation of the ideals and practices that founded this country.

The "legal" way is nearly impossible for most people in the world today. You either have a lot of money and contacts, or you have to prove you can "already" offer something to the society. It used to be about making your own way from nothing to something. It no longer is.

Ryan - My thoughts exactly.

We have people still coming to this country the right and legal way. We don't need excuses we already have millions of those. We need to enforce the laws we have in place that's all. If we did it any other way we should just abolish the laws and let anyone in. This country is a free country but with laws that we use to govern with. Breaking the laws we have in place is not in the best interest for the country as a whole.

The cost and the trouble people have to pay to get into this country is well worth the price. If they can not afford the sacrifice like we did then let them stay where they in their own countries.

The "legal" way is nearly impossible for most people in the world today. You either have a lot of money and contacts, or you have to prove you can "already" offer something to the society. It used to be about making your own way from nothing to something. It no longer is.

No it's not. People do it all the time. Times change, and as a result rules HAVE to change! Look at laws: There are TONS more laws now than there were when those words were written. Does it make them wrong? No. Do we still have to follow them? Yes.

The world is a much different place now than it was when those words were written, so things must change. If you think otherwise, I say you are ignorant. This country would collapse under the weight of all the immigrants that would come to this country if we 'opened it up'. I, for one, don't want that.

Smokie-788412

That's if they come to this country legally and not sneaking in the back door. What do you say to all of those that have come here before the legal way?

Please don't give us your false defense of the ones that came here legally. Let them speak for themselves... and, so far, I hear NONE of them looking for a solution that is not humane.

Ryan - "Give me your tired, your poor,"

The U.S. already has too many "tired and poor", they're called American taxpayers, and they're sick of being bled dry by their own government and criminals from foreign countries.

I say we just put a bounty on the illegals. Pay American citizens to round them up and send them back to their own countries. If they have family here they can go home with the illegals. I figure the illegal immigrant problem would be solved within a matter of months.

That was the sculptor making fun of europe's oppressive system. Its not an expression of our national policy. Just like that whole Rain, Sleet, Snow thing isnt the usps motto.

How much do any of you know about immigration law? It's sadly out of whack... One of the main tenets of American exceptionalism is/was a belief in the ingenuity of each and every person. An unskilled laborer from Italy who came here, had education and determination, could then become something better and hope for even more for his or her child (rather than remain a laborer in Italy for generations). Now many of you seem to think that we don't need unskilled labor. We do... The GOP has now decided that only "quality" immigrants need consideration. Our immigration policy is politically skewed. Almost anyone from Cuba can get in -- entire baseball teams could defect and be received with open arms -- because it's good PR for "our" government. Rupert Murdoch wanted to buy a media outlet and owners have to be American, so we fast-tracked him to citizenship. Olympic-caliber athletes we want get in easily. Instead of our belief in the inherent value of all, we are greedy and want to shore up our system by cherrypicking the "best" and most moneyed. People like Romney and Huntsman who want to give citizenship to homebuyers from abroad or to people who graduate from top US schools further this belief.

When my mom immigrated about 45 years ago (legally I might add) she was put in prison while her medical records arrived with her x-rays. She was there for a few days so that the government could see that she wasn't going to walk in any diseases. She later worked hard to maintain her legal status and later yet took the courses and became a US citizen. That's how immigration and citizenship works- commitment, vetting, work, goals, and success. Once you get that you get the opportunity to make the most of your citizenship. That's on you too.

We should still have this policy.

"... they're called American taxpayers, and they're sick of being bled dry by their own government and criminals from foreign countries."

....AND hedge fund managers and 'derivatives' traders!

Ryan V, great reminder and terrific response to the flame throwers.

"they're sick of being bled dry by their own government..." And the illegals are hired by the likes of Mitt Romney, Meg Whitman and others like them.

Just out of curiosity, if a person breaks into your home and steals your t.v. is this person simply an "undocumented visitor"?

For the people who say these criminals are paying social security and other taxes - if they're doing that, it's because they stole someone's social security number. Identity theft is a huge problem and yet you think it's OK when these people do it?

kate 1855079

Now many of you seem to think that we don't need unskilled labor. We do... The GOP has now decided that only "quality" immigrants need consideration. Our immigration policy is politically skewed.

Gee Kate wasn't it Obama that said that we should give certain illegals a way to become citizens under that DREAM Act? So lets not pretend that the Democrats nor the Republicans are clear on these policies. Let's just enforce what laws we have in place. That's that is needed. Charity starts at home. Well Americans are here at home the others need to go back home.

Gotta go see you time aorund.

note: mitt didn't say, "I can't have illegals, it's wrong!" he said, "I can't have illegals, I'm running for President for Pete's sake!"

I think the poster who mentioned half a billion in "lost" tax revenue due to the 2 TRILLION in non taxed 'payments' is the PERFECT example of someone not 'getting it'. That 2 Trillion is 'off the books' by the EMPLOYER,...so where is his penalty for breaking the law? Deport THAT MF,...and then we can start talking about 'fair'. That is all.

So having a discussion on immigration isn't important?

White collar: What does the GOP know about economy? It only took them 8 years to completely destroy it????

No Noid it isn't important. Geting the Debt reduced, people back to work and the economy going again is important.

Quite frankly, other than our security, the economy is the only thing that matters.

verno==A lecture on economics this early in the morning?? You can blame the Republicans for the economy and the Democrats for helping them. We are $15 Trillion Dollars in the hole, it's not getting better, the Democrats want to raise your taxes, the Republican want to cut spending and Obama will say anything you want to get re-elected.

The illegal immigrants have to go, sorry. They came here illegally and are breaking the law just by being on our soil. If Obama, other politician or the tax payers that want to keep the illegals here let them pay additional taxes to cover the expenses. Don't tax the people that belong here and are here legally. We are having hard time just paying our own way and not losing everything we have in the process.

This Silly Stuff. People actually think we are doing good when millions upon millions of real Americans have lost everything they own.

Verno,

I hate to disagree with you, but the economy was fine under the first two years with Bush. After the Democrats took control of the House and Senate is when many of the deregulations took place. Barney Frank and his cohorts lifted the regulations on Freddy and Fannie that caused the housing market collapse. It was the Democrats who destroyed the economy, not the GOP.

Also look at the economy now. Everyone is trying to blame it on the GOP in todays Congress, because they won't give in to Obama and the Democrats wants on the issue. Think about this: In his first two years, Obama got EVERYTHING he wanted from Congress. There was absolutely nothing the GOP could do to stop anything. He and the Democrats had free reign. However, healthcare, stimulus and spending bills took precident over the economy. 350 billion went into ONE solar company that only survived three months.

Please look at who is making the laws before you lay blame.

Jegossett,

To add to your point: Who allowed the deregulation of the industries that caused this mess? Clinton. Why do you think there was so much growth during his tenure? The chains were removed!

Be sure to thank Clinton in your prayers for Thanksgiving Dinner.

White collar - "Quite frankly, other than our security, the economy is the only thing that matters."

And you think having porous borders or granting citizenship to criminals who have no desire to be Americans, only a desire to live off of them, is not a security issue?

Also, you don't think that 15 million illegal immigrants living off the taxpayers, driving down wages, not paying taxes, and sending earnings out of the country is not an economic issue?

You are either terribly naive, or terribly blinded by political loyalty over national loyalty.

White Collar: ILLEGAL Immigration is a HUGE drain on the economy so it should be a very important subject to discuss. If we rid ourselves of the illegals here then the states can begin to recover and the Jobs would then be available for those who are here legally to peruse.

Here is how we ride ourselves of the illegals:

1. Inform all illegal immigrants to report to their local police station or local Military base within 24 hours. At that time we the US Government will not ask any questions other than what Country do you come from? Those illegal immigrants will then be placed onto Aircraft's or ships and taken back their there OWN Country.

2. As that speech is being made about all of the illegals being deported immediately then as the President you also announce that if ANY business is couaght having illegal workers in their business they will lose their business license immediately and ALL assets will be seized and sold at auction. The Business owners will then also be required to be placed in jail fro a minimum of 10 years with no chance for early release.

3. Those who stay after the 24 Hour deadline are caught hey receive the same fate as the business owner in that they have any and all assets seized and they get to spend 10 years in jail as well with no chance of parole and when their sentence is up we IMMEDIATELY send them back the Country they came from.

4. Those having anchor babies will be forced to be deported as well with ALL of their children whether or not they were born here on US soil or not. Those Children who are born on US soil but parent or parents were illegals then they have a choice when they turn 18 to return to the US legally but those same children will not have to go through the entire process as the other immigrants who come here the legal way.

I know this sounds harse to some but it is about time we start actually doing something instead of just talking about it.

If you think I am wrong then I can only say that if we dont do this then all of the people who pay the money and come here the legal way should sue the hell of the Federal Government for their expense's since they did it the right way.

and newt dragged clinton into it kicking and screaming. I remember when bubba kept proposing longer and longer time frames to balance the budget and newt stood by the shorter time frame. Now bubba runs around taking credit for it. But in all fairness, he did push for nafta. I'll give him that one.

The economy was not "fine" the first two years of Bush, we had 3 quarters of negative growth in GDP, remember?

The first Bush tax cut (and the only one that should have happened) was passed in 2001 to stimulate the economy, remember?

Congress was entirely controlled by Republicans from 2000- 2006 (except for the Senate 2000-2002 when Bernie Sanders switched to Independent and caucused with Dems), remember?

GDP grew at about 2.5% average the entire "aughts" and was almost completely driven by consumers taking equity out of their homes rather than by real economic growth, remember?

During the entire Bush years only 3 million net jobs were created, remember?

We were ENTIRELY consumed by the war we'd started in Iraq, but never collected taxes to pay for, remember?

So yes, I hold the Republican Congress COMPLETELY responsible for the economic morass they created in the 2000's because - they created it.

NH Undeclared, the country was in recession when Bush took office, thus the negative growth. You do remember the .COM bubble? it burst in 2000, causing the mild recession. Bush was definately no brain child, but he did have positive job creation. The problem was the creation was due to artificial bubbles not real economic expansion, the huge housing bubble. Democrats took control of Congress in 2006. They contributed to this mess as much as the republicans. The housing mess was mainly due to lack of democratic control over the lending industry. Barney and Chris ran the banking committees of had oversight of Fannie and Freddie.

There is enough blame to go around and both parties contributed.

The big issue today is Obama blaming a congress that has been in control for a year for the economic mess. This is totaly insane. Not to mention the democrats still have control of the senate, and from all accounts they are doing nothing and have been doing nothing for the past two years.

This country was built on LEGAL immigrants. Minor correction in your post.

Gingerbread Mamma===Jack has a good point. We came here from Europe as servants to the Kings and Queens of the Old World. We paid our price and more. If you have enough money to sponsor a illegal family let them move in with you and have them start over the legal way. That way it will not be an expense paid for with Tax Dollars. We can not help our own at this point in time.

Not so, the country was built on immigration,...the laws surrounding it came later. PS. And, are so trivial as to be a class b misdemeanor,...putting it on par with say a SPEEDING ticket.

But you sure don't see any AMERICANS getting speeding tickets, now do you?

This is another one of those Republican soundbites that plays the victim card, I am sure it goes something like this:

If it weren't for the 'illegals' I'd have done better in school, if it weren't for the 'illegals' I'd have MORE of my share of the pie, if it weren't for my hatred - I'd stop blaming others and yank on my own damn bootstraps - John Q Republican

Pathetic doesn't begin to describe the faux outrage that continues to beat this drum. If it weren't for the EMPLOYERS breaking wage laws to hire them, maybe there wouldn't be such a desire to be here?

Clara - "Not so, the country was built on immigration,...the laws surrounding it came later"

Are you saying the country's laws should have been made before the country existed?

Whats funny is that most of the country actually still did not exist when the immigration laws were created.

pjam09

The song Colors of the Wind comes to mind:

"...you think you own whatever land you land on..."

in the annals of FAIR,...it could be said that MIGHT wasn't RIGHT when settlers took the land from the Native Americans.

Regardless, my comment was directed to Jack who made a patently false blanket statement.

Why is it that proponents of a HARSH immigration stance ALWAYS seem to go directly to FELONY behavior as a comparison of illegal? Kind of like Rick Santorum immediately goes to the Man on Animal slippery slope of Gay Marriage.

It's IRRATIONAL to equate unsimilar things simply because extremism and fear motivate your similes.

Calling the normal immigration procedure a "path to citizenship" is laughable. Most of the people attempting to immigrate now could barely afford the postage that it would take to attempt the process from the other side.

Also, using the "drug dealer" excuse is like the TSA using the "terrorism" excuse. It has nothing to do with crime or public safety and is everything about control and the slow whittling away of things that people considered a "right" in generations past.

Calling the normal immigration procedure a "path to citizenship" is laughable.

I don't think so it's the law of the land. Maybe you want to be like the Obama adminisration just pick and choose the laws you want to enforce at any given time or place?

...yea like the all the great great great grand kids of slave owners are paying?

It's not an insult to all law abiding Americans. You're speaking for yourself and have you never broken the law? If you've got a speeding or parking ticket you should be deported so law abiding citizens don't have to deal with you criminals.

Ah, the old "speeding" ticket "argument".

Nobody cares too much if they cross the border for 2 minutes and then leave. If you're speeding every second of everyday you should be deported.

So the longer you commit a crime and reap the rewards of it at the expense of others, the more "acceptable" and "legitimate" the crime becomes? and therefore you should be rewarded even more at even more cost to your long-time victims?

Liberal fantasy will truly be the end of Western civilization.

Ryan V do you actually know any legal immigrants? I have several working for me. They 100 percent do not support illegal immigration no matter how difficult it is to obtain legal citizenship. I don't believe we should arbitrarily try to deport 10 million illegal immigrants,obviously that is not practical. However we do need to tighten up our borders and apply the laws to those who continue to immigrate illegally.

Yes the immigrants do, that is why they took the time and effort to become American citizens. ILLEGAL immigrants only grasp the "opportunity" to profit at the expense of others.

It is a slap in the face to those that chose to abide by our laws by coming here legally and follow the correct path to citizenship when you are going to "reward" criminals.

I don't think we're talking about some kind of fast-track to citizenship here...and unless you yourself are a naturalized citizen of this country who are you to say it is a slap in the face?

...in a nation being killed by its debt caused criminals in suits your remarks are ripe.

Da Noid,

My girlfriend is a immigrant here with an H-1 visa (work visa). I see the frustration and hurt in her face when she reads articles from liberals that want to give preference to illegas. She came to this country legally and over the last 3 1/2 years, she has paid nearly $10K in immigration and legal fees in her pursuit to become a citizen of this country. The US does a great diservice to those that have chosen to immigrate to this country legally. What kind of example as a nation do we send to those individuals like my girlfriend about how we value and respect our laws when we turn around and reward criminals with a path to citizenship?

So, yes, I do know what it's like....

aml1313,

Your comment has no relevance to the topic on hand. All it serves is to show people that you have no point of discussion on this topic. And you have no clue what's its like to be a legal immigrant in this country. Stick to the topic at hand and you might actually learn something.

i am mexican-american 3rd gen. WTF you talking about. my father was USMC. My mother COP for 25 years. Aunt in US ARMY. Uncle in NAVY. gtfoh. And as far as "LEGAL" + "ILLEGAL" give me a break. what is so noble about leaving a nation? Step up and fight in your land of origin. Otherwise people talk trash. Natives the world over are still fighting; meanwhile the weaker cut and run for money and chances to be slaves to the Spanish and English or the WORLD! unite RAZA!

What makes you think we're talking about fast-tracking citizenship?

...but killing all the natives makes this land yours?

Yes. Killing natives have been what this whole world is being based upon. There has been no civilization that I can think of that has NOT killed others who try to take over the land. See We humans are all about land and resources.

da Noid

TWO WORDS.

Dream Act

...And Natives should use all that casino money to buy all the US debt and take this land back.

Wow, your grasp of the US debt seems to be about as extensive as your grasp of our immigration laws.

Dahly,,, Does that mean you don't like Newt anymore?

Very sorry to hear that Dahly. God bless him.

well to go with you logic how would make for all the slaves murdered by their masters? Or how about ALL the Mexican killed to Take Texas? Or how about all the Natives killed to take this nation from east to west?

I "favor" Newt, as we have real economic problems and he is the only one with actual, concrete, experience dealing with the financial dilemma's we have facing us today. I disagree with his immigration stance.

Mark, Thank you.

aml1313 - You are a brainless twit. You're one of those knee-jerk, anti-American liberals who who tries to excuse anything and everything by reaching back into history to try justify some modern day atrocity. Your kind make me sick. Maybe today I'll go out an murder an Italian, and I can use your idiotic logic to excuse myself by claiming that my Christian ancestors were killed by Romans who threw them to the lions, and that we need to take that in to account. Go stuff a turkey up your rectum...after you pull your head out of it.

HERE'S MY PLAN....

Give the illegals currently here a path to citizenship (amnesty) under some very simple conditions.

a) The borders must then be sealed and sealed TIGHT.

b) Do away with all multiculturalism in our schools, government etc...and replace it with what we USED to have, which worked for hundreds of years: The Melting Pot. No more schools in California teaching the "glories" of Che and Castro. No more kids being allowed off school for NON-AMERICAN holidays. etc...

c) All children of illegals must then be taught the truth; that the countries their parents came from are dysfunctional, backwards-azz cesspools of violence and corruption. Otherwise they'd still be there right? You'd be amazed at how many children of immigrants don't even consider themselves Americans.

d) Be taught the history and the cultural superiority of America and it's ideals, form of government and economics.

e) NONE OF THIS WILL EVER HAPPEN BECAUSE THE LIBERALS WOULD NEVER ALLOW IT.

The border will NEVER be sealed because too many corrupt government A-holes have to much to gain by letting as many of them through as they can. Plus, even if they wanted to stop the flood, their incompetence would see to it that they don't.

Multiculturalism is a religion to the nation's liberals and has been doing a fine job of teaching kids the negatives of capitalism, democracy and America in general. LIberals don't want a return to the Melting Pot. Liberals want to keep everyone divided among ethnicities etc...to gain future voters by using scare tactics and division. To liberals, illegal aliens are merely "unregistered Democrats."

no who is using the past...

Americanization policies were based on the idea that when indigenous people learned United States (European-American) customs and values, they would be able to merge tribal traditions with European-American culture and peacefully join the majority society. After the end of the Indian Wars, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the government outlawed the practice of traditional religious ceremonies. It established boarding schools which children were required to attend. In these schools they were forced to speak English, study standard subjects, attend church, and leave tribal traditions behind.

Why would they owe taxes? they work for less then min wage!

Poll "results" are easiear to manipulate than the effort it would take to create hundreds or thousands of different posts attributed to different users. That is why the numbers are different.

No it is a few loudmouth zenophobes.

No. The "results" are slanted just like their articles.

Funny how the "poll" on MSNBC is exactly the opposite of real-world polls.

from CNN:

How will backing limited amnesty for longtime illegal immigrants affect Newt Gingrich's GOP campaign?

Hurt 45% 6918

Neither 28% 4222

Help 27% 4187

yes...because anyone who is anti-illegal immigration is a "hate-spewing Nazi". I know it goes without saying but you should make it more clear to some of the others here that you mean anyone against illegal immigration is a Racist. Because all illegal immigrants are non-white, right?

Marie A.

What a heartbreaking story; my hemorrhoids bleed for her.

And shame on her parents for putting her in that situation.

Marie---that is the human side of this situation that people just don't focus on. Your son's friend sounds like she would be a model citizen and there should be a way for that to happen.

Steller Fan

There is a way for her to become a Citizen. GET IN BACK OF THE LINE AND WAIT HER TURN.

NH Undeclared

"...This nation was built by immigrants, who contribute new energy, new ideas, and renewed levels of patriotism..."

You forgot the word "legal" in your expose.

And what about all the BACK taxes, penalities and fines owed; both federal income tax and social security taxes?

Good post.

You stated: "...I do NOT want to pay the unfathomable costs we would incur by rounding them up and sending them back to whatever country they (or their ancestors) originally came from..."

If they don't pay back all the taxes they owe and are then given amnesty; the drain on Social Security and Medicare would be at least twice as much. Don't forget once they are given amnesty; they would be able to bring their children into our country as well; this will put an unfair burden on every municipality in America.

this is my case i lived 32 years i the u s a, have 7 children, all american citizens, 9 grandchildren, was paying faithfully for my house, had a license as an insurance agent, 27 employees, and had a green card. i was detained and deported for a cause for which i have paid all fines and punishment dictated by the court system i georgia. after 32 years i was 43 days in atlanta jail and deported to my country. any one willing to say this is fair well go ahead. i agree with gingrich

Gerardo proves the point. We have no need for more people, especially the offspring of illegal aliens. Tax deductions for exemptions should be limited to no more than two children per woman. Those who want to have more must buy credits from those who wish to have fewer than two. The Gerardo-type illegal alien will re-create here the very conditions that caused him to leave his homeland: overpopulation, joblessness, poverty, lawlessness, pollution, etc. The fact that he can't see this is ample reason to send him back to re-experience the shortcomings of his homeland culture and the kind of life it produces.

Those who advocate for legal immigrants and/or some form of amnesty for the illegals are being shortsighted. Do they really believe an America with 0.6 to 1.3 billion people will be better than an America with 0.3 billion? Our immigrant past is just that, "past". We have a need only for about 250,000 legal immigrants each year focused on the highly skilled and educated who will enable us to remain competitive in the global economy. Relatives of citizens or permanent residents deserve no greater priority than others. We will regret any further growth in our population. If you doubt that, visit the hinterlands of India, China and Sub-Saharn Africa to see how people live in squalor and abject poverty. Does anyone really want to go down that road?

Svenky

I'm sure the 20-30% (soon to be greater) only said "NO" because as you said; it's "a loaded question".

"Republicans want the federal government to do one of its stated jobs and that is to enforce the law such that immigrants who come here, come here legally from the beginning."

How's that new Alabama immigration law working out for the farmers there? Where are all those American-born pickers? I don't see any republicans who want those jobs.... but I'll bet there are a lot of republican contractors who would love to get a big, fat contract building a wall along the border.

van helsing

If the America-born pickers would lose their UI they would be a picking.