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Rick Perry promised to "end Obama's war on religion" in a new television ad touting his socially conservative credentials.
The Texas governor, who's in the midst of an ad blitz in Iowa, said there's "something wrong with America" when gays and lesbians are allowed to serve openly in the military, but "our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school."
The ad is a play for Iowa's numerous socially conservative voters, who may have an out-sized impact in the state's Jan. 3 caucuses.
Watch a video of the spot below:
I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm a Christian, but you don't need to be in the pew every Sunday to know there's something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school.
As President, I'll end Obama's war on religion. And I'll fight against liberal attacks on our religious heritage.
Faith made America strong. It can make her strong again.
I'm Rick Perry and I approve this message.
Leave a Comment:
*grasp meet straw*
Mr. Prayapolooza's phone calls to God went straight to voice mail, when he was praying for rain!
Toss in a witch doctor or two, and some snake handlers and the farce is complete! ;o)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=bill%20maher%20prayer%20palooza&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCMQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Ddvd5e9lMm_4&ei=35PfTti-AoaJsAKkxbHxBg&usg=AFQjCNGengXR-WpNy9f30PZvTdXBkt7c_A
If people knew Rick Perry like political insiders in Austin know him his religious nonsense would get him laughed at.
Rick Perry may call himself a Christian, but he does NOT follow the teachings of Christ.
Where on Earth is Obama's war on religion? Perry has a war on any religion that does not call its leader a pastor.
nisl
If people knew Rick Perry like political insiders in Austin know him his religious nonsense would get him laughed at.
I so agree.The Killer -n- Chief could start with the non-religious, super so-called Freakout over @FOX NOISE.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-november-28-2011/much-ado-about-stuffing
Much Ado About Stuffing
Fox News criticizes Barack Obama for leaving God out of his Thanksgiving address despite the fact that he didn't leave him out.
This video is so hilarious it reveals once AGAIN how FOX LIES and contradicts itself.
The RWNJS will have a nice Tea Bag Day with this one!!!
Sarah Hale wrote hundreds of letters to 5 or 6 presidents to make Thanksgiving a national holiday. Lincoln made it a national holiday in 1864 I believe. Sarah though it should always fall on a Thursday because no religion has a holy day on a Thursday in November. She meant Thanksgiving to be a secular holiday. Obama is wise not to inject religion into the mix. He remembers that little clause about separation of church and state in the Constitution.
Feisty , your video was LOL funny. But, most of all true.
RWNJ, Killer-n-Chief, Rick Perry is so delusional. His poll numbers prove it.
Well, I guess the old Puritans from Salem would just love the religious right and Rick Perry in particular (they wouldn't like Santorum, that whole Catholic thing). Funny thing is, that whole bunch do remind one of witch hunters!
As long as there are tests/exams/pop quizes, there will always be prayer in school ;)
@jinsd
LOL So very true!
Damned right, there's something wrong with America, Perry - at least part of America. When someone comes touting his religion as his primary asset to become the Chief Executive running a secular government, you bet there's something wrong. It's the Constitution that governs, Rick....not a book that's been edited, translated, and butchered repeatedly.
Hey Rick, the Constitution you have already sworn to uphold says a religious test for the office to which you aspire is forbidden. Think of that as a Constitutional Commandment.
Aren't there Republicans out there who are going to condemn this cheesy punk for his hypocrisy? Isn't this the guy who promised to keep government OUT of our lives? Where are the Constitutional "purists"? Where are the Constitutional "conservatives"? Democracy!, NOT theocracy!
@phine
Thanks!
Gov Perry may I remind what Sen Barry Goldwater said:
Sen Santorum, you may want to take notice as well.
The morals of the people can change the laws, but laws cannot change the morals of the people.
Peace
You know you are a brain dead drone when......
you cite the Daily Show as fact.
Nice.
Gotta give Perry credit for a two-fer----a slam at gays AND at President Obama.
(Perry is just on the wrong planet. Still catching up, I guess.)
Did you hear the journalist on the telly in Aussie, talking about President Obama?
As the President stood in silent prayer at a military ceremonial event, the journalist said;
"Yes, President Barack Obama is a devout Christian".
Seems they got that all the way over in Australia just fine.
Perhaps his mythical war, which is topped only by his mythical pals, The Magic Jew and Da Warrior Deity (i.e. Jesus/Yahweh) is really a crusade to support the homosexual agenda... or socialism... or totalitarianism... or....
Well, sh!t, that makes about as much sense as anything this poor excuse for a sentient being manages to utter...
Rick has been spending too much time watching Cluster Fox.
Fail!
Myth #1: Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists is the basis for separation of church and state
Some misguided people try to claim that this quote from Thomas Jefferson establishes the "separation of church and state" that we now have today:
The first problem with that assertion is that this quote is not from an official government document. The second is that it was Jefferson's original intent that this meant that the church was to be protected from the government, not the reverse (which is the case today).
http://www.creationists.org/myth-of-the-seperation-of-church-and-state.html
LOL!!!
Unable to come up with many ligitimate criticisms they can defend (or are not guilty of themselves), the wingnuts are now forced to make up issues.
Dumb, dee, dee, dumb, dumb, dumb.....
(The race to stupid is on..)
Meanwhile in other news, a Republican delegations lead by Rick Perry is seeking terms of surrender on the War on Stupidity.
I have to agree with Perry. The message is obvious, gays have rights; that's clear. So, where's an individual's right to pray in school? Where's the individual right to recognize Christmas as the celebration of Jesus' birth on government property? After all, the military cannot be construed as "non-government", now can it?
Actually Mr. Prohibition... Jefferson was of that mind. And so was Madison (the father of our constitution)... From Madison's (with Jefferson's council) Remonstrance Against Religious Assesments:
"
marksman:
Of course you agree with Perry. You don't grasp facts either. There is no restriction on an individual's right to pray in school. NONE. There is no more a specific restriction on an individual's right to recognize Christmas as the celebration of Jesus' birth on government property any more than there is such a restriction placed on you in your own home.
As far as the nonsense about gays, indeed there have been very serious restrictions on their rights; DADT for starters.
Those are the facts, bub, just the facts.
So you'd be fine with a school in a predominantly Jewish area making your kids celebrate Hannukah? Right. Or schools in Dearborn forcing your child to fast during Ramadan?
You have the right to celebrate Christmas however you please. You do NOT have the right to make others in a school celebrate along with you, or pray with you.
And why do you want that, anyway? Any prayer or religious celebration that a public school would conduct would have to be watered down to be so ecumenical as to be meaningless! Oh great god/allah/spirit in the sky...bless and/or recognize and/or affirm this group...
Comparing "gays in the military" to the practice of religion (which in this country is NOT restricted or oppressed...what a straw man) is nonsensical.
And while I know the press was\is often the vehicle of the politics of the day... the following, once stripped of the inflammatory nonsense is telling...
The Federalists attacked the fifty-seven-year-old Jefferson as a godless Jacobin who would unleash the forces of bloody terror upon the land. With Jefferson as President, so warned one newspaper, "Murder, robbery, rape, adultery, and incest will be openly taught and practiced, the air will be rent with the cries of the distressed, the soil will be soaked with blood, and the nation black with crimes." Others attacked Jefferson's deist beliefs as the views of an infidel who "writes aghast the truths of God's words; who makes not even a profession of Christianity; who is without Sabbaths; without the sanctuary, and without so much as a decent external respect for the faith and worship of Christians."
-Miller Center,
University of Virgina
Perry is right, there IS something wrong with America.
He doesn't know what it is, though. What's wrong in America is that bozos like him can even be within shooting range of a presidential nomination. What ever happened to reasonable debate, objective argumentation, limiting the use of hyperbole to humorous comments, and limiting humorous comments to humorous contexts?
What's wrong with saying, "America, I believe that our children should have the right to pray in our schools and I will fight for that"? Even if you want to somehow twist it to make Obama look bad, wouldn't it still be quite reasonable to say, "Obama fought for homosexuals, but somehow in his crusade for civil rights he forgot that millions of our children are everyday forbidden freedom to express their religion in our schools"? Why the "Obama's war against religion" nonsense? And why the hell is it wrong that homosexuals cans serve the military?
Oh, I know, because his religious and homophobic base won't get all fired up unless he makes Obama look like the pro-gay Antichrist. And THAT is what's wrong with America, Ricko. And you're contributing to the damage.
That children ought to be allowed (not encouraged) to pray in school is a perfectly reasonable argument to make, and one that even some non-religious people could understand. But your childish tactics make it clear that you're targeting an insane, extremist, and hopelessly ignorant demographic. That's why no one with an IQ in the triple digits will ever vote for you.
Wayne @ 1.4.....So, if Obama's so keen on keeping religion out of things, why did he recently celebrate Ramadan? I wonder if at Passover he'll have Seder with the Jews?
Perry is pathetic, just pathetic....
marksman,
Other posts have correctly pointed out the difference between an individual's right to private worship on govt. property, e.g. the kid who prays before a final exam, and govt. sponsored practice of religion, e.g., if the principal were to lead a school prayer over the intercom. Only the later violates the constitutional separation of church and state. Also, Gov. Perry's comparison between gay rights and openly celebrating Christmas or school prayer is invalid for the simple reason that being lgbt is not a religion, thus it does not violate the separation of church and state for lgbt to serve openly in the military.
I fthere's a bigger piece of s**t around (besides Noot) than Perry, I'd sure like to know where.
WHAT 'war on religion'? The one on, say, Islam? The one on Judaeism?? WTF is WRONG with this jerk???
dirt,
He's also very frequently attended mass, celebrated Christmas and Easter, and done a lot of Christian things. So if your point is that he's all for religion as long as it's not Christian (surprised you didn't remind us his middle name is Hussein), I don't know, man, I'm not buying it.
drive-by-observer,
Oh, sure there are bigger POSs out there. I can name a few sitting members of Congress who outsize Perry (POS-wise) by far.
Perry seems to think that public schools that are becoming more diverse can continue to push for prayers that impose one religious practice on all students. It sounds like he has forgotten that First Amendment right of religious freedom.
@Dirt
I am sorry. I did not hear of Obama, our Christian president celebrating Ramadan. If he did, that's great. We do need to coexist in this world. In my church I have celebrated the Seder many times with a local temple. I learned a great deal. That did not make me Jewish. Relax dirt!
Yep, there goes Obama violating the War Powers Act again, he better hurry up and kill Jesus before his 60 day window is up.
Is it so impossible for Evangelicals to pray with their mouths shut??
These freaky followers of the Anti-Christ will take any excuse to go to "war"...Their main objective is the complete destruction of all people on this planet except for themselves, after all.
Creepy.
Some people say...
Since this is how FOX Noise starts all their propaganda "reports," I think I'll start all my posts this way for awhile in reference to their lies.
FOX Noise: "Some people say..." President Obama secretly plans to destroy Christianity, first by no longer lighting the Christmas tree at the White House and supporting Halloween instead (Bill O'Really and Sean Insanity -- NOT), then by putting atheists in key positions of society to counter the International Coalition of Apostles and their Seven Mountains (Perry -- shame on you for your affiliation with this organization), or that the president really is a Muslim who faked killing bin Laden...
marksman-3550582-- Individuals have the right to pray in school, it just can't be required en masse in public schools because these schools are government institutions funded by tax dollars per Separation of Church and State. Also, Individuals have the right to send their children to parochial schools on their own dime if they choose (and no, you can't use tax paid vouchers).
Christmas can be celebrated on government property as long as it is not favored over other religions per the constitution and Separation of Church and State. Some cities cycle displays, a most recent controversy was over a display put up by an atheist. No doubt you believe atheists have no rights--the right of no religion at all?
The most recent stance about treatment of gays overseas is because in many countries gays are executed, so this becomes a human rights violation not just one of equality. Try to keep up.
But this business of the right wing, especially the religious Right always playing the victim card and how religion is not allowed in the public square is BS fear mongering used as a wedge issue to divide people. Personally I find this to be far more disconcerting, and am more concerned about REAL problems our country faces than all the imaginary nonsence conservtives get their panties in a wad over.
How about we focus on economic recovery and restorying the American Dream instead?
Last ditch effort for Perry to make some ripples in the GOP race. Reality, Obama is against extremism, which includes Muslims and Christians alike. Perry mistakes this as "war" against religion. It's against those lying, immoral nuts that would brainwash others into committing heinous acts like bombings and murders because someone doesnt agree with them.
@ dirt
Boy, you sure live up to your user name. Obama did not celebrate Ramadan and any attempt to claim otherwise is debunked by Snopes.com. He may have observed it the same way he observes Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, Veterans Day, President's Day, Hanukkah, etc but not celebrate it. To celebrate Christmas, Easter, and attend a Christan church is a direct violate of the Muslim religion. No Muslim would do that.
Point of contention: "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise therof"
How does using tax paid vouchers for parochial school costs violate that clause?
Barack Obama was born to an agnostic mother and an absent non-practicing Muslim father and became a Christian by his own choice when he was in his twenties. Now he is being criticized by a buffoon who became a Christian for the same reason most people adopt their religion ....... BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS AND OTHER ADULTS TOLD THEM WHAT TO BELIEVE.
Anyone who accepts Rick Perry's attack is irrational because Barack Obama has not attacked anyone's religion, whereas Rick Perry has attacked not only other religions, but also the Constitutional separation of church and state.
benji2, perhaps, but all this rhetoric could have been null and void if Obummer had not used "God and gun fanatics" in his campaign in 2008. What did the anti-religious faction think would happen? It made a perfect defensive assault for the 2012 campaign. Problem is, many who voted for Obummer were perfectly fine with his Christian/religion bashing back then. mmmmmmm
@TruePatriot,
I think Fox's definition of "some people" are Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck.
When are all these stupid politicians going to learn the constitution? These scumbags keep bringing religion into politics. Rick Perry is a desperate moron trying to revive his dumb presidential campaign.
People need to just look at the Middle East to realize that Religious Extremists only bring chaos and destruction. Also, remember that only closeted and frustrated gay people are the people that openly "hate" gays.
marksman, Obama regretted that comment and walked it back. All politicians stick their foot in their mouth sometimes, even gifted speakers like Obama and Gingrich (Biden is famous for his gaffes).
Never the less, it was said and opened the flood gates.
Perry: "As president, I'll end democracy and freedom for all. We shall live in theocratic dictatorship in which anyone who is not a born-again Evangelical will be executed."
The Tea Party cheers! (Except for Mormons when they learn they are not included.)
"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion..." marksman-3550582 -- Look at posts by you and other like you in this thread. It's true.
Perry ..has no hope of winning any primary.. but he does have a better chance of going to hell than most .. the Obama family has more christian values than the evangelical right .. and when the role is called .. it wont be called for hypocrits like .. Huckabee .. the bearer of false witness ..or Perry .. the hate thy neighbor candidate ..or any of the other in name only christians
Truepatriot??? one word, DUH!
Christians control all three branches of the US government and every state government, dominate every level of government, control the military and law enforcement in every sector of the United States, have an essential monopoly over the entire US economy, and make up a voter majority so large that it can, and regularly does, violate the constitutional liberties of other Americans. Christans are not @!$%#ing persecuted.
Independentjim-what Christian values do the Obamas endorse, the hatred for this country and whites? Just curious, judge not lest you be judged.
marksman-3550582
The fact is, marksman, that what Barack Obama said about people "clinging to their guns and religion" is absolutely true ...... he just should not have said it in public. How many conservatives do you know that are "one issue voters" ...... the 2nd Amendment and anti-abortion are typically the single issues - and way too many of them are uninformed on most of the crucial issues facing the country.
I have a strong feeling just from reading your screen name that you might be clinging to your gun pretty tightly.
This comments marksman is absolutely unsupported - it merely identifies you as uninformed.
Toasty, really?? truly?
don, you bet I cling to my guns, they are in fact one of the last symbols of freedom, true American freedom that still exists. The gun is not politically correct.
don, what "crucial issues" are you speaking of, illegal immigration, insider trading by public officials, fast and furious, pot legalization, foreign affairs, unemployment, union abuse, perhaps?
Yeah, Marksman, I'd say that one word describes you pretty well.
You're a pretty scary guy, and I think that makes you happy. The only power you have is in your guns. It's certainly not found in that thing you think is a brain. Nothing but mush there.
We can go round and round the way chuchy folks do about scripture interpretation and get nowhere. Anything that is funded with public money (tax dollars) crosses the line of Separation of Church and State. I do not want my tax dollars used to teach creationism any more than you want your tax dollars used to pay for abortion--get it? The reason the religious-Right pushed for vouchers was to find a way to use public funds for religious curriculum, and why the voucher idea has been rejected.
"Congress shall make no law that establishes religion," meaning creation of a state church, thereby favoring one church or religion over another, or "prohibiting the free exercise" of another religion, or freedoms of no religion at all. It's really very basic and clear to anyone who is not a block-headed simpleton.
We see through your radical religious agenda. Enough with your theocracy, a Christian theocracy per Evangelical definition of Christianity, which excludes all other faiths (or no faith). We will keep our democracy and freedoms for all.
Why jack, because you disagree with me. I'm so hurt.
jinsd:
I can answer your question, but I need to know what you mean by "parochial schools".
marksman:
The President's name is Barack Obama. You show yourself to be bereft of knowledge and courtesy. Show me any proof of a "god and gun fanatics" quote from the President. Let me remind you in advance of the commandment that says, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
You cannot demonstrate in any way, shape, or form that the President hates whites. You might remember that his mother is white. Of course, you might not remember that. Well-known facts seem to escape your attention. Hatred for this country? Well, of course, that's why he ran for the Presidency.
If your marksmanship is on a par with getting your facts straight.....you couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a tennis racket.
marksman
It's interesting that illegal immigration is first on your list in spite of the well-documented reduction in illegal immigration and the increase in border securing during the Obama administration. Obama has never been linked to insider trading, has not advocated legalizing pot, has shined in foreign affairs, has been blocked at every turn by GOP legislators when trying to fight for jobs. I have no idea what "union abuse" you are talking about. Denial of union rights is, however, an issue.
How so? Please explain the "obvious" hatred, don.
Very really, Marksman. Very truly as well.
If that were the case, toasty, there would be a Nativity on every government facilities' front lawn. If Christians have the overwhelming control you claim they have, they could sway religious ideals to their favor, yet I am not seeing that.
don, just listing issues not in any particular order, just affirming that there are more issues that abortion.
Marksman, you seem to speak a lot and say very little. Not a very good marksman, are you? With regards to your comment about praying in school, who is keeping you, or anyone from praying if you want to? Furthermore, what does one thing (the rights of ALL citizens) have to do AT ALL with your request to pray at school? Also, why do you care if Obama doesn't spout "Christian" values. From what I see, the words "Christian" and "Values" are words don't really go together all that well.
Well Marks, there's this thing called the Bill of Rights...
Fine! Allow prayer in school. The question is , who's god are we going to pray to? Will it be the official government sanctioned god? It must be christian because he's using a variation of Faux Noise's "War on Christmas".
If that's the case then it's in direct violation of the constitution. I know of the rethuglicains disdain of that document (George W. "It's just a piece of paper" Bush) except when they can us it for propaganda purposes.
I think that every god and denomination there of deserves equal time. Every christian sect should get the same amount of time as every Islamic sect,Hindu sect, Buddhist sect. Then there are the nontraditional religious views that should be respected as well. The church of The Great and Glorious Flying Tomato for example. (It's sacraments consist of throwing overly ripe tomatoes at the likes of Perry whenever he speaks in public.)
Of course all prayers must be held separately according to the sect otherwise the heavenly switchboard will get all screwed up. This will probably entail the better part of the school day because some gods, goddesses, or entity may have different requirements in religious obligations. This should cover the better part of the school day.
Collections made during the prayer period can go towards reimbursing the school district for costs associated with the prayer session. (Teachers time , building overhead costs, ect.) Atheists can just go hang out in the school yard.
CogitoErgo (#1.23),
In reading your post about the Federalists, it strikes me that no matter where you might go in history, you will find that there were idiots.....complete, mouthbreathing, narrow minded, alarmist and mistruth blabbering total idiots. Those Federalists sound a lot like certain groups, organizations and politicians around today. By the way, how many of these horrible things actually happened after Jefferson's election? Just asking.
True Patriot, fabulous.
You have hit it on the mark and cut to the quick over & over & over today.
But higher up on the merry-go-round created by the right with their Entertainment/Ethical Values, is the issue of Voting:
All they want for Christmas is to stop us voting.
Red
WRONG
GOD DID ANSWER....................with fire.
Same way he has answered false prophets in the past.
AndresTM: "Oh, sure there are bigger POSs out there. I can name a few sitting members of Congress who outsize Perry (POS-wise) by far."
......I think if you try, and not very hard for that matter, you can name more than just "a few". Let me get you started...Paul Ryan, Eric Cantor, Mitch "Slick" McConnell.....keep it going.
Armed with a Bible, a Ouija board and a Divining rod, astride winged Pegasus, Perry cannot break Newts sanctified control of the traditional holy trough. Sides, Trump likes Newt.
these republican candidates just do not want the people to like them do they? I'll be voting obama come election time. Regardless of how I feel about him, there is no way i would vote for any of those potential candidates, it would be like putting a child into office.
What war on religion? I was under the impression there were wars between religions and on those who chose not to practice any religion.
Again, if I want to use my tax dollars to send my children to a private school because the quality of education in traditional public schools is substandard , how is that creating/establishing a state church?
I have no religious agenda...and where did I start preaching or pushing my religion on you with my previous post?
Now who's the blockhead :)
Churches have always had the right to marry or not marry anyone they want to in line with their teachings and beliefs. Gay marriage would NOT change that. Try getting married in a Catholic church and tell them ahead of time you will not be raising the children Catholic. They will ask. They will try to stick their noses into your personal life about birth control, having kids etc etc. You should have seen the look on the priest's face when I told him " That's none of your @!$%#ing business". It was priceless but he married us anyway since the "donation" was $200.
@David
A parochial school is a school that provides religious education in addition to conventional education.
I'm still laughing at marksman claiming the "flood gates" were opened. the teapublicans are having a hell of a time getting a trickle going let alone a flood gate.
So, three years ago we were supposed to hate Obama because of his support for a radical preacher, and now we're supposed to hate him because of his "war on religion".
Hey, conservatives - help me out here - which is it? Too much religion, wrong religion, or not enough religion? I'm having a hard time keeping up here.
marksman - the stupidity of your claiming that the Obamas hate this country and whites is only overshadowed by your eagerness to show that stupidity.
Toasty,
I wouldn't say Christians have an absolute monopoly over the country. We all know Jews do very well and are demographically overrepresented in almost any decision-making circle. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking a position here (as long as I can get ahead I don't care who else does)—I'm just saying, it's not like everything in this country is controlled by Christians.
jinsd:
That wasn't meant to be a silly question. Some folks use the term "parochial schools" interchangeably with private schools.
With that in mind, any government money that goes to a parochial school is a de facto subsidy for the advancement of religion. Money is fungible. One may say that government money in a parochial school may be used for the purchase of let's say, math texts. Monies from tuition that would have gone for math texts may now be directed for religious books and other materials that are clearly designed for the purpose of inculcating religious values. Whether a Catholic school or a Madrassa, the net effect is to subsidize religious instruction.
It is in no one's interest to advance any religion with the use of tax monies. Moreover, there arises not only the inevitable conflicts over which is the "right" religion, but it is even more offensive to those who accept the notion that there is no god, gods, supreme being, or what-have-you.
Religion is between the creator and the created, not the state and its citizens.
Uh excuse me Perry, it is President Obama to you...idiot. He just keeps digging himself deeper and deeper into his own pile of excrement. Ugh
So very odd....I missed all the news story about President Obama at war on religion. What's even odder I've never found it hard to pray anywhere. School, car, a play, a movie, library ....never had a problem with it. Of course I never found that I had to make a public spectacle out of it either.
Wonder why these Evangelicals have to make a public spectacle out of religion? Wonder why Perry keeps opening his mouth and embarrassing himself? Is the man that much an egotist?
Somebody needs to tell slick Rick that he's not running for dictator, or shah, or king or whatever he seems to think he's running for. The Constitution is the law of the land - not the garbage he comes up with to fire up the evangelicals.
AndresTM#1.79: Actually you are right about the Jews. Having said that though, such is at the pleasure of the Christians. According to nearly all Christian dogma, the Jews are Gods chosen elect, but now are in a state of spiritual confusion. Until the Christians can successfully convert these confused dunces to Christianity, it is their solemn duty to help and protect Gods elect, even to the point of some spiritual mortification of the Christ. Generally too, the Christians have found this quite palatable though, since so many Jews are so good at obtaining money.
"Rick Perry promised to 'end Obama's war on religion'"
I have a strong suspicion this line of bull@!$%# will come back and bite Perry on his backside. I wonder if his handlers actually screen his ideas before they let him act on them?
Well, Mr. "Prohibition doesnt Work", you correctly quoted Jefferson's own words,
yet somehow you totally mis-understand them. What part of "Wall of separation between" don't you understand?
The fact that it wasn't an Official Government Document is irrelevant, it was a direct quote by Jefferson, one of the authors of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Moreover your claim that
is not supported by anything Jefferson wrote or said, but is merely a wishful re-interperatation of that simply stated document. What you don't seem to understand is the only way to protect all Religions from the Government is to make sure that no Religion controls the Government - that requires the Wall of Separation, not a "one way only" door that you'd prefer, with your own Church as the One.
First of all it's not like gays have any rights no one else has - they're just equal.
Secondly, who is preventing anyone from praying in school? Who is preventing you from recognizing Christmas as the celebration of Jesus' birth on government property?
Just because teachers do not force everyone to practice your religion at school, does not mean it can't be done on an individual basis.
Good grief!
@David
I took it as you asking for point of clarification...no worries
I appreciate your response and explanation...I hadn't approached it from that angle.
However, I interpret the establishment clause to mean the Legislative Branch can't enact a law declaring a religion as the official religion of the US e.g. The Church of the United States. If vouchers are given to religious parochial schools non discriminately(Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc) then I still don't see how that violates the establishment clause.
Thanks again for your well reasoned and respectful response...99% of the posters on FIrst Read should follow your example of public discourse among divergent viewpoint.
Peace
Heh, excellent point, Andres. I suppose they do represent something of a disproportionate percentage of the economy. But then, so do muslims from overseas. How do you think the US Chamber of Commerce got so much money? Saudi Arabia.
Organized religion is nothing more than organized hypocrisy. I have yet to find anyone who claims to believe in God who actually does. If God is, as all religionists claim, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, why are they continually pushing his "so called" dictums and general affairs of protocol onto all who think differently? If they really believe God is all they claim, they would be content to allow Him to take care of his own business, since, as they claim, He is quite able to do so. If God is, as these say they believe Him to be, then ultimately He will have his way, no matter what is said or done to the contrary. Illogical as "hells frozen food section". These people use their claimed belief in God to dominate others.
Roadhouse Blue,
My thoughts exactly. I think the names "Eric Cantor" and "Mitch McConnell" have joined the group of synonyms for "fecal matter" in my mind at this point.
Toasty,
Very true. In the end, you could make a case as to why a lot of minorities or ethnic/religious groups have excessive power over some aspect of the country. What's true is that Christians are culturally dominant, and our Christianity has largely shaped the way we've handled (or failed to handle) a lot of social issues. It's time for us to make government more secular. I'm all for tradition and faith, but the government should play no role in keeping or promoting them. Often, the same people who claim to be against "government interference" are the ones who ask for the government to take on a more active role in preserving our Christian traditions. No. It shouldn't be that way. We the citizens are free to vote for candidates who share our religious beliefs. But said candidates shouldn't make of their religious beliefs a selling point, nor should they let them interfere with their work. That's not what Madison and the other Founding Fathers envisioned for our democracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAJNntoRgA
Is Christian another name for stupid, because this man is as stupid as anyone can get. I think he put the last nail in his coffin with this dumbazz ad.
Repeal the don't ask don't tell. Gay men in the military are there protecting this sorry excuse of a mans azz. I hope he sinks so low that he will never be heard of or seen ever again.
Take all that bs Christianity and religious mumbo-jumbo wackiness and shove it rick Perry.
RON PAUL 2012
Perry "The Texas governor, who's in the midst of an ad blitz in Iowa, said there's "something wrong with America" when gays and lesbians are allowed to serve openly in the military, but "our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school.""
Once again..... He is a Christian, unless you are gay... GET REAL Perry. Children can celebrate christmas, and to RESPECT other religious faiths.. you know, those who are not Christian, a moment of silence is given. So much for majority rule with minority rights huh. I hope you get the republican nomination.. I want to watch Obama destroy you in the election.
Arieus - YOUR Messiah RON Paul would also not allow gays/lesbians to be in the military either, he is actually worse than Perry.
Is it any wonder that the GOP Machine have not back any of these candidates when they have the likes of Rick "N-Head" Perry to choose from. Just look at the Sick Seven the fact that they have let it come to this is an indication that they know there is no hope against the incumbant in 2012.
Perry is a lunatic... but it doesn't matter because the religious right has passed Perry by.... I don't believe he is Christian at all based on his policies and the number of people he has killed as Governor.
Lies. You're lying. (not to mention the hilarity of using a creationist website as your source for these lies)
You need to read up on some Jefferson - he wrote much more on the topic of religion/government than just the letter to the Danbury Baptists. If you become more acquainted with him, it will be quite plain his feelings on the topic are the polar opposite of what you claim.
Not only that, but the SCOTUS has upheld the ideal of 'separation of church and state' - so your argument that Jefferson's letter wasn't a legal document is totally moot because the SCOTUS has on numerous occassions reaffirmed the spirit of Jefferson's letter within LEGAL documents and rulings.
*shakes head*
If my tax dollars are going to fund your parochial school that doesn't pay taxes I want a tax credit for donating to a charity.
I do not want MY tax dollars going to fund YOUR religious agenda. Thank you very much. Especially your Catholic agenda which encourages people who can't feed the children they have to shuck out more in turn using more than their fair share of the available resources including funding for schools.
It also can't hurt to look up the letter from the Danbury Baptist's that Jefferson was replying to; it annoys me to no end that these people trying to twist Jefferson's words to mean something they don't will NEVER bring up the letter that he was replying to (therefore exposing the full context).
There is no god, it's a fairy tale and a myth. Wake up people, it is 2012 and we now have science, reason and logic.
uh, Overlord, you have Overstepped a bit.
There may very well be a god, there may be an infinite series of them. What you might want to clarify is that our beliefs about God, and the writings from which we record our beliefs, and the organizations and 'races' that we've created separating us from our neighbor because of those beliefs are apparently all based on myth and fairy tales.
Remember, that in science, reason, and logic, you cannot ever ever ever prove a negative. Therefore in science, reason, and logic, you should 'never' say 'never'.
Is Obama really waging a war on religion in America?
Feisty, the fact that you're the first to comment almost every time on every political story means you need to get a life.
That ought to get his homophobic base fired up! He makes it sound as though serving 'openly' means having sex in public.
What a looser. A drowning fool.
Looser means not tight fitting. Did you mean loser - you loser.
PEN-24
What a looser. A drowning fool.
and brain drain
blearyeyed - You know, if you are going to insult other people's ability to write you should make sure the comment you do so with is free of errors. For instance your second sentence is a question and should be ended with a question mark and not a period.
Say nisl - love the grammar tips, keep 'em coming. Always fun to learn a little something, but seriously, how many here have never been to college?
I'm working on my use of it, its and it's, and possessive pronouns. Tough stuff that.
In wholly unrelated fun nisl - what up with Durban?
Last go around - Copenhagen they literally airlifted the Dems: Obama, Pelosi, ALGORE, the whole gang went.
This year? Why have the dems forsaken the global warming cause?
Or are Obama, Pelosi or Gore headed over today?
More off-topic nonsense, Lionel?
I see a @!$%#load of talking points in there, "counselor"...so what will it be today?
Adequacy Junior...adequacy...keep striving, you're good at that, at least.
Interesting, Spanky. It was ol' blearyeyed that chimed in with the first grammer tip.
So, the misinformed is defending the critical illiterate deflecting from an article about an idiot. What a sad little world the defenders of Republicans live in. Is it fun being the smartest kid on the short bus?? (There is no mention of Pelosi in the article, by the way.)
Gee, there were even bells ringing in the background...What a phony!!!
Obama's "war on religion"? I missed it. What has he done specifically?
He was seen throwing away a Watchtower pamphlet that Perry left on his doorstep. Perry is very sensitive about that sort of thing.
Rick Perry is a blithering idiot.
Thumbs up, Tina!
@nisl: There should be a comma after "For Instance" in your second sentence.
The real question is: Who is going to end Rick Perry's war on intelligence and sanity?
Perry is just tuning up for admission to the brand new clown college Trump is opening December 27th in Des Moines. If you are going to play to the Republican base you really need to get the IQ down around Neanderthal levels.
Perry is making war against facts
The only one "Exposing Himself" is Perry!!!
We all know what the Spalling Kween gets....an apple.
The self-proclaimed Christian needs to read the ten commandments again, especially " thou shalt not bear false witness."
So this unfounded accusation against the President is coming from a man who believes in selfishly turning the nation into a theocracy to improve his chances of experiencing a, "Rapture," so he can become immortal without dying, and leave everyone else in the U.S.A., earthbound?
What I find amusing and yet troubling is the number of naive people in this country who'll believe Perry's claims at face value. Like Fox News (America's "Lie Factory"), these regressive right-wingers eagerly spread accusations and talking points that they'll make up as they go along, and they'll echo it over and over again. Similar to what Bachmann does, or for that matter, Pat Robertson, with his latest warning, saying that God is going to punish America for becoming more tolerant to gays.
Its hardly worth the effort, but Boooooooooo...
Yep, there is a certain base in the south that this will appeal to - the gulible racist churchgoing Fox News watching country music listening pickup truck driving crowd who already believe Obama is a Muslim terrorist AND an Atheist because Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh say so. You know, the low IQ voter who couldn't pass the civics test to become a US citizen but they hate imigrants who did because they are "comin to take our jobs". People who think Puerto Rico and Hawaii are foreign countries. People who swear by the Bible but have never read it. People who cannot name all of the presidents of the 20th century, but can tell you everybody in the WWE and who has wrestled who for the last three months. People who have never been out of their own state, perhaps even their own county. Yes, the narrow minded ignorant base of people who have no idea how to think for themselves and vote for whomever they are told to.
Nothing. The "war on religion" has been a conservative fantasy for far longer than Obama's been in office. He's just the latest scapegoat to take the heat for it.
Will-1091847: Just about the same ignorance. or more, in the North, friend. These ultra-right-wingers want to take the religious clause out of the Constitution. If they do, watch out. It will be like the "Then they came for me" all over again.
What is it with religious politicians and strawman arguments?
"but "our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school.""
Lies, of course they can - the school just can't make it an official function.
These kinds of lies make me sick to my stomach - misinforming the already misinformed, fear mongering nonsense.
Perry's 15 minutes were up two months ago - this man in plain old loony, you can have him Texas...
I'd like to know who will end Perry's war on intelligence? My guess is it will be the voters.
The impious presumption of legislators and and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time: That to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical;...--
- Thomas Jefferson, expressing concern over the authoritarian interpretation of religious views, and advocating, rather, that states allow an individual to use her or his own reason to establish or settle these opinions, in the opening passage to Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1786), quoted from Merrill D Peterson, editor, Thomas Jefferson: Writings (1984), page 346
.,;:?! I'm not cussing I'm just getting all my punctuation out of the way at the beginning
We, certainly, do NOT need another racist, right-wing moron from texas in power in any capacity....
For those who believe in reincarnation, do you think that Perry will come back as a rock?
PERRY'S COMMERCIAL TRANSLATED:
"I give up...I'm NOT going to get nominated. I'm just going to waste money showing everyone how unqualified I am".
I'm having a difficult time understanding the correlation here. As far as I know, Christians have been able to serve openly in the military since this nation was founded. Or is he suggesting that Christians should be able to practice their Christianity openly in schools and, therefore, homosexuals should be able to practice their homosexuality openly in schools?
Amen!!!
rick perry did not even remotely qualify to enter the texas a&m veterinarian program, the man struggled to maintain a c-d average. rick, when god calls for the matching of couples to enter the ark on judgement day i have it on good authority you will be strolling up the ramp of the ark with ms. palin. "god and war", why do those always go hand in hand with the gop? go back to the side show tent< "elmer gantry" is playing all day free of charge.
Rick pArry is the poster child of the republican strategy of distract attention away from the real problems
Hey Texas...you folks got duped with that guy.
My finger got tired of clicking all the voting points. Let me just say, "Ditto." Religion and politics are not supposed to be mixed. There's a SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE in the USA. Any politician who runs on a religion ticket should be banned. It's okay to have one's belief system. It's not okay to shove it down someone else's throat. What you believe and what is real are often two separate things.
thank you- religion is a private thing, if you have to talk about your religious beliefs-there are other issues going on and you need to address that privately= basically we don't care.- what you believe or if you believe.
I wouldn't mind a "true Christian" in the white house, if the republicans actually believed in Christian values. I guess when Jesus fed the 5,000 he did so through the laws of supply and demand, right? When he cured leprosy he did so only for those with insurance, right? And when he said love your neighbors as thyself he meant to add, "as long as they're the same religion, speak the same language and have the proper documentation," right? If only Republicans truly represented some of those values.
If elected governor of Texas, I promise to end Mr. Perry's war on motherhood, apple pie, and the American flag. I will also protect the United States from invasion by the planet Mars.
Sounds like somebody needs more tin foil in their hat.
This is a joke, right? Kids aren't allowed to openly celebrate Christmas? Somebody needs to tell that to all the kids running up and down the aisles in Target and Walmart saying "I want that for Christmas...and that, and that, and that." So, is Perry openly admitting that this is how Christians celebrate Christmas now? Because if they were doing it privately in their homes, worshiping and giving thanks for their Savior's birth, they wouldn't need to celebrate "openly", now would they?
I get so tired of this whole "I'm a victim for christ" nonsense. If federal laws are enforced with respect to the separation of church and state thereby restricting the ability of christians to inflict their primitive mythology on the rest of the population, they squeal and froth about being persecuted. So who cares if nativity scenes cannot be displayed in government buildings and crosses cannot be placed in public parks? Christians are more than welcome to perform their rituals in the privacy of their homes or in their churches. Just keep this nonsense out of our secular government, schools, and institutions.
So the man who put to death 234 people is saying the President is waging a war on religion..........yeah, that is real Christian of you Mr. GOP christian right wing dude.
Honestly.........this is what Perry deems important with the economy the way it is and so many looking for work...........
typical republican...........like those in 2010 who ran on a promise of jobs jobs jobs and then the morning after the election told the world that their top concern was getting President Obama out of the White House...not jobs as promised...but satisfying their parties political agenda........
so, as usual, republicans are not on track to do anything for anyone but themselves.
Perry can't hold his own in a debate so he pulls the religious card............immature and evasive...
what a schmuck.
Gawd.......Slick Rick, you are "inconsequential"!...
"you are "inconsequential"
I was about to express the same opinion. But, then I realized that the problem isn't that 'he' thinks it. It is that there is a significant number of Americans who will jump and shout at perceived slights to their Christian religion, but turn around and say Muslims don't have the right to worship where they want. Of they are the same folks who will run screaming to the school board if Wiccan or Buddist texts are studied in class.
No surprise in any of this. It is the same right wing hypocrisy that has been evident for almost 20 years.
Rick doesn't even realize that according to the 'polls' he doesn't have a base....but he continues to debase himself!
Sad, he's trying to get some traction with this 'war on religion' video.
Rick Perry is an idiot!
I love polls, don't you chilled.
Besides, at this point in 2007 Biden was rocking a steady 3% in Gallup, and look what it got him.
Of course he was getting shellacked at the time by Edwards. Just think over 15% of you libbies wanted that guy to be the pres.
You know, Edwards and Newt - both had sick wives, but only one had maligante cancer, and only one mistress got knocked up.
Politicians are the best.
Im not a fan of the culture wars.
That said, maybe Perry was disturbed by this
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/military_backs_off_on_bible_ba.html
No Bibles at Walter Reed- or other "religious materials". Means that, if you're dying, you can't get last Rites, cause, you know, it involves religious symbols and materials.
This entire administration is run by idiots.
The military does have the Religious ranks covered:
There are Officers representing all beliefs, Chaplains, Priests, Rabbi, etc!
Check it out.......
spanky, are you seriously trying to defend newt with"only one of their mistresses got preganant and only one had malignant cancer"? that's the main difference between republicans and democrats. edwards situation is looked down upon by democrats because of what he did while newt's situation is overlooked despite what he did. your excuse is that a democrat did it too so it's okay that your guy did.
NoJo,
Give us a break and stop lying. Prove that you can't get last rites at Walter Reed. Good God lady, your lies are becoming shameless.
Spanky is doing what the wingnuts do so well - misdirect. In an article about Perry, he brings up two DIFFERENT politicians and makes one of them out to be worse then the other. The truth is that there are bad aples on both sides of the aisle. The Republican side arer better hipocrites about it though.
Dear Ricky, Plueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzze just go away. Enough already!
Perry , Bachmann, Paul, Santorium are just like Cain running for the money. The reason Cain suspended his campaign rather than quit? Because if he quit he could not legally raise any more money.
Name one other President who's name has been connected with as many questionable
personal documents and activities (birth cert., draft reg., soc. secu
number,realestate fraud transaction, house owned in title by others, claiming
tax deduction on a house his name is not on, hidden school records, hidden
passport records, adoption records, tax money contributed to foreign political
canidates (forbidden by law), numerous alias name, and numberous SSNs). I can
not think of one other who had issues with even ONE of these items listed. Here
is a person who's name is time after time connected with fraud. To the reader,
have you ever had an issue with even one of these problems? You probably do not
even personally know anyone who has an issue with even one. But here we have a
President that has an issue with ALL of them. These are not small little
mistakes.They are all crimes of fraud. Just because Obama and those who choose
not to see reality want the voters of this nation to ignore them, does not make
them less of a crime nor does it make them go away. If you or I as a common
citizen had commited fraud, we would be sitting in jail or prison. That is
exactly where this man should be. Just as Obama says "Those who do not want to
disclose the truth are those people with something to hide." Obama disclose all
of these documents....or do you have something to hide?
Art, I'm just curious, do you have any sort of evidence that you can repost that has any sort of factual base and isn't just pure heresay?
@Art: do you understand the term "accusation"? One could argue that the reason he's "accused" of all of these things, is because people have some sort of problem with him. People like you. People like (LOL) Donald Trump.
Socially Conservative Iowa Voters need to join the 21st century and stop with the hateful endorsement of fellow homophobics.
I am making accusations that art-2065319 engaged in carnal relations with a syphilitic platypus with a lazy eye. Art was also born in a Nigerian Bordello, and although born HIV positive, made a pact with satan and sealed it by eating a baby, while Reverend Wright acted as witness.
Who would lend credibility to any poster with such unresolved allegations? He is the worst poster in history.
I am reasonable, If art can prove these things did not happen, I will forget my concerns.
But the platypus survived and is running for Sarah Paylien's seat as gov.Alaska. When asked,the platypus replied that he,Cain,and Perrry were just "mutual friends with common interests". Art was unavailable for comment,buried in a comic portraying Bachman and Rick walking beside a dinosaur stating "all God's creatures got birth certificates"
no joe, no bo, nj
Did you READ your own quoted article??? Is says they backed off a stupid position of preventing the public from bringing Bibles to servicemen.
PROBLEM SOLVED!
here's some other late breaking problems in the world:
BRITISH TAX TEA! WAR FEARED!
SOUTHERNERS DEFEND SLAVERY! WAR FEARED!
ARCHDUKE FERDINAND ASSASSINATED! WAR FEARED!
I really don't know how We can stop this Idiot from trying to be nominated as presidential candidate for the republican party but We should Do somthing to stop Him wasting Our tax money to cover His field trips to trying to win a contest that No one Of Us texans agree pay for I demand as tax payer to investigate Who is Paying for all the security around this Idiot to be out of the State and penalize Him for all the ilegal expenses that He is making Us to pay for Him at least to get Him touch the ground and realize that the People of Texas is tired of His exuberants aspirations and Keep His dreams for His self with out costing Us a cent
The stuff this GOP comes up with to attack our President is just so off the mark for the citizens of this country. Who are they talking to? Social issues aren't even on the radar during this election. Do they really think we are that stupid that we would allow them to talk about anything other than job creation and pay inequality?
So the game is we have to create jobs and those jobs have to have equal pay, is that it anaB?
Sounds totally feasible.
Let's take Amy and AnnaMolly. Amy pulls in something like $15.00 per hour. Anna Molly rapes and pillages $250-300 per hour.
Now first - are you suggesting that the services Amy provides [picking up a telephone and saying hello] are equal in any way to the services Anna Molly provides [saving someone's bacon, putting out a fire, restoring order in a chaotic situation]?
Are you implying that Amy's time is worth the same as Anna Molloy's. How about experience and training between the two - similar or desperate?
Do you compensate a highly educated person more than a high school drop out? If so, isn't that cause inequality?
So tell us AnaB how do we go about this noble task of decreasing the income gap?
I mean come on, how can we get our girl Amy paid like a California lifeguard or a prison nurse?
Wow Spank....Just love the way you like to frame arguments. Must be that moot court law school thingy where they teach you to argue all sides of a case. One thing they don't teach you in law school though is to argue the RIGHT side. That said, I might suggest you read Teddy Roosevelt 1910 speech that the President referenced yesterday. You know where Teddy said that Labor takes precedence over Capital. And that there would be no capital without labor. When you've read it, please get back to me. The issue is fundamental fairness and that everyone gets to play on a level playing field. To use your analogy however, I believe that those of us in the manufacturing sector who invent and create tangible products are more valuable to our economy than paper pushing Lawyers like you who "game" the system!
I believe the word you meant to write is DISPARATE, not desperate. Disparity is unavoidable. A progressive tax system is designed to recognize that fact.
So now that Obama has somehow morphed into becoming Teddy Roosevelt, how is this income equity thingy going to work? What laws will be passed so that a CEO is paid maybe a few dollars more that the mail room guy? And does a doctor deserve more pay than a nurse? They both work hard and worked harder to get to those positions. And does a lawyer make more or less than a teacher?
I guess will need yet another Congressional Committee to sort this all out.
Liberals love to talk about equality, as in equal results. Everyone gets a trophy in Libby-Land. And Obama giving his "Teddy" speech yesterday just sounds so good. "It's not fair!!!" Obama bellows, bringing the Lib crowd to it's feet in a group Obama-gasim!
We get it Libs, that's the Hope. But as always with Great Liberal Ideas (GLI), it gets down to how to implement the Change. And that's always the place were the wheels fall off for the Libs.
SPANKY- So how long are going to intentionally, keep denying a well documented facts on income disparity? I love NY........they got the message.
Labor over capital - that's is funny Torpedo.
No capital without labor? huh. So if I get together a bunch of worker bees I should have not trouble starting a company right up, is that it there Torpedo? Why then all the fun folks here at FR should be out there right now starting a business up. I know they want to do their part to create jobs.
Oh and I love your assertion that tangible products are somehow more valuable than services. Be sure to advise your doctor of that. I'm sure he will find it as 'insightful' as I do.
And for the 50th time, you really out to stop bashing Ms. Torpedo. Now I understand she is not currently utilizing that shiny law degree of hers, but I have no doubt she worked hard for it, and you fully supported her efforts.
Paul - but, but I desperately wanted to be a shooting gaurd in the NBA. Damn height disparity got me.
Or is that height ineqaulity?
All I know for sure is I don't want to be standing next to any of these GOP candidates when they are spouting off about values or God. He might get a little peeved with these folks and throw down a lightening bolt! :)
Certainly people like MF Global's CEO financial wiz-kid Jon Corzine make (made) tens of millions for their efforts. The guy that pushed the mail-cart around the MF Global office, probably not much more above minimum wage. That is an income disparity.
So what's The Plan PEN? How do we eliminate this inequity you Liberals have uncovered? How exactly do we make things "equal"?
Or is this just more election year rhetoric, yet another question without an answer, from Teddy, ehh, Barack?
Who is denying anything PEN?
I make more than Amy. Dangerfeild likely rakes in more than me.
Free markets brother - you want more all you need to do is go out and get it. It takes hard work and likely a good education, but it is there.
You wait and see what happens in NY. They will reap less in revenue after the tax increases than before. Brown is trying to stick us with even more taxes as well.
By the way - Cali now has more people leaving than coming. Interesting, no?
Pen - go make Anna Molly give up her salary so Amy can make more. Good luck with that.
JSA1 - Why all of a sudden you're decrying Jon Corzine making tens of millions? Isn't that GOP idea of job creation by letting WS go gaga? You can't have it both ways. This is what the president called selective amnesia.
If Jon Corzine is found wanting, I want him in jail. Same goes to all who knew one or two things about the 2008 financial melt down. Everyone must play by rules of the land........no exemptions and I hope Republicants supports this and throw the "job creators" under the bus..........wishful thinking.
SPANKY - Free market is all right wing baloney. Save your speech. I LOVE NY.
Seems like Obama's mother neglected to teach him a few things-
The importance of telling the truth, for one thing. Otherwise, how on earth could he stoop so low as to lie about her?
The second, most fundamental, which is taught repeatedly by the age of three is that LIFE is UNFAIR.
I, personally, wanted to play the role of MiMi in La Boheme- lack of a great voice precluded that. How is that fair? Why shouldn't people pay to listen to me sing-after all, we want equality, don't we? Poor singers should not be discriminated against, should they? I'll bet that more than 99% of people don't have good voices.
Talk about unfair!
Gee Spank...So you disagree with Teddy. Maybe you should be Pres..Nice how you dodge the essential questions and bring my wife into the picture. Last time I checked, Insurance is a product..I suppose you could argue that writing leases is a product, or criminal defense or bottom feeding divorce lawyering is a product..Thing is Spank, try selling any of those in a depression..Doubt that your guns will work either since from previous posts it appears you have no military experience and couldn't service a weapon if your life depended on it. Oh wait, you are a conservative and too smart to serve in the military like Romney , Gingrich, Trump and the rest of the insane clown posse that is running for the republican nomination. Remember Spank..Without Labor, there is no Capital!
I find it odd that none of the Obama worshippers managed to notice the results of TR's last campaign.
Maybe if they had, they could have kind of pointed it out to him.
Or maybe this is Obama's plan- he knows he'll lose this election, so he's setting himself up to be a fomenter of rebellion.
I kind of think that's going to be just another epic fail. . .
"Do you compensate a highly educated person more than a high school drop out? If so, isn't that cause inequality?"
Oh come on, Spanky, get real! You can't argue the higher wages of public union employees as being unfair and then come up with that foolishness since there is a higher percentage of college degrees and technical training in those ranks. No one is making an argument to pay a person with a degree at the same rate as a drop-out (or vice-versa). The argument is about too much product of labor being skimmed off by those who don't labor. The argument is about falling below a level of income to sustain ordinary basic living expenses DESPITE educational attainment.
The only viable solution to massive public support networks and recovering the economy isn't to throw people off the back of the train, it's to add more transportation to self-sufficiency. That includes paying wages that don't shove people below the poverty line in, as I have said many times before, a totally fraudulent business practice of shoving the cost of doing business onto the taxpayer/public support network. In using JAS1's example of the mail cart pusher at MF Global, that means paying the guy pushing the mail cart at least $11.86 an hour if they are single, almost $20 per hour if there is one dependant - not $7.25 regardless.
http://www.livingwage.geog.psu.edu/
You're not answering the question PEN. How exactly is this income equity solution thingy going to work? Teddy Obama laid out his argument yesterday, and the folks on the Left jumped off their seats screaming "Yes! Yes Teddy Obama, that is the problem!"
So what's the plan to fix the problem PEN?
Or is this just more election year rhetoric, yet another question without an answer from Teddy Obama?
So we're back to the "Livable Wage" argument. Okay, that's certainly a valid thing to argue for. So what you earn depends on your family situation. Okay, so Joey the mail-boy is pushing his cart around for several years and $12/hour, and then Joey has a new baby. Congrats Joey. Joey is now entitled to $20 and hour, the law says so. MF Global, Joey's employee says it's not worth it, and the fire Joey.
Now what do you do?
Just when I think I've heard everything. . .
First of all, it is ILLEGAL to pay people doing the same job differently due solely to their marital status, number of children, or any other non-job reason. Women marched for that particular bit of equality- because men with families were paid more because, and only because, they had "families to support".
Second, raising wages across the board will leave those at the bottom in exactly the same place- because the prices of everything will rise to accommodate that circumstance. So, raise the wages of apple pickers by four dollars a bushel, and the price of apples goes up by four dollars a bushel.
Do any of you ivory tower dreamers ever venture out into reality, or do you just sit in front of your computers having electronic conversations among yourselves, believing you've discovered some new, idealistic, perfect world that's never been tried because no one was ever brilliant enough to try it?
I get you know nothing about economics- but it seems common sense eludes you, too.
no joe, no bo, nj,
You may want to go back and read a little history, Obama was comparing himself to Franklin NOT Teddy...FDR, you remember the president AFTER the Great Depression!
Um, no. He was trying to compare himself to Teddy Toosevelt. Bull Moose Party? Square Deal?
Nice try at spin- no sale.
Obama owns it.
How is it possible that we should take advice from spank, joanna and no jo when they can't even figure out what the topic of the article is??
Rick Perry...War on religion....Ring any bells in the teabagger funny farm????
Spanky, you don't get to sound condescending when every argument you've put up in this thread was torn to pieces in three sentences or less.
Who is Teddy Toosevelt? LOL
I think Reddy Toosevelt was Rick Perry's porn name, wasn't it?
Not only is Spanky unable to discuss the topic of the article, he can't even discuss the concept of income disparity. His point is that we shouldn't all make the SAME amount, even though we all (including Spanky) know that isn't the point. Nice misdirection!
"I think Reddy Toosevelt was Rick Perry's porn name, wasn't it?"
Wasn't he in that flick, The Ni&^er-head chicken rancher?
Disgusting. The worst thing is, this Perry ad makes me ashamed to call myself a Christian!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-sapp/rick-perry-tithing_b_975723.html
No Amy, Perry should be ashamed, but unfortunately he isn't. He's playing to the lowest common denomination of religious zealots. His tithing records do not follow the teachings of the Bible that he claims to follow.
One year he made over $1,000,000.00 and records show that he only gave $100.00 to his church!
How do you think Fox News would react if Obama said, "Faith made America strong. It can make her strong again."
Seeing as how they crapped all over themselves when Michelle Obama said she was proud of America, I'm guessing they would go into full outrage mode. Why? Because implicit in that statement is the idea that America is NOT strong and that America is female. Either one of those would cause Fox to lose it.
And don't you just love it that Perry says Obama is waging a war on religion? Perry makes it sound like keeping prayer out of school was Obama's decision and not a part of that no good socialist document titled the Constitution of the United States.
Not to mention it has been upheld by SCOTUS. :)
President Obama's "war on religion"-----the rest of us call it the First Amendment. How sad that some people will take this seriously.
Perry has finally surpassed Bush for stupidity. I didn't think it was possible, but he actually did it.
Perry is so intrenched in his religion that he doesn't even see that "Freedom of Religion" applies to ALL religions, not just Christianity.
I have heard so many people spout that old view that the US was founded on "Christian" values...as well it may, but there is nothing in any of the wording of the Constitution that states that Christianity is the only religion that is the focus.
No one says a Child can't pray, or even worship, at school, it only says that the SCHOOL can't focus on ONE religion to exclude any others, unless it is a "Christian" school.
You need not be ashamed if you call yourself a good citizen of the world instead. Being a Christian doesn't make you a good person.
It is baffling to me how someone can get so far in a presidential race and still show such blatant disregard for the Constitution and its Amendmentments. Perry is free to live his life with his head in the sand - but he cannot use his religious views to eneact and enforce legislation to make me put my head down there with him!
Equal rights for all? That's a constitutional guarantee.
Government-mandated religion? No way.
And by "religion," Perry means Christianity and only Christianity. And by Christianity, Perry means fundamentalism, excluding Catholicism and most mainstream Protestant faiths.
What an ass!
Jerry--don't forget a good dose of Dominionism--"Christian" Sharia-style biblical law (Old Testament) for all!
"We have met the enemy and he is us!" Pogo by Walt Kelly
Wonder how Gov. Perry feels about the Mormon religion?
Probably the same as most of his followers, that it isn't "Christian" by their own narrow definition, even though the official title is "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". Of course he's savvy enough not to mention it, as he doesn't want to loose millions of potential votes from conservative Mormons
That all depends on whether the Mormon beats him out for the nomination.
Okay I get it! He is running to be the worst person in the world! You got my vote!!
yes, the GOP really thinks most people are stupid, just look at the millions of people who vote against their best interests to vote for the pubs. they get sucked up in fear of losing what they never had. they get sucked up in hate mongering when they really dont know anything about the subject. they get all caught up in the GOP web of lies and deceipt, and fall in line, in marching order, under the GOP mandate.
The Republican candidates have reached a new low when it is fair game to us a vicious political TV advertisement to attack gay soldiers that have volunteered to protect America. Rick Perry should be ashamed of himself. What sort of offensive distraction is this when every American voter correctly view the economy as the only issue of importance in the upcoming campaign? Perry's lack of intelligence has blown his chance at the White House. To use offensive attacks on American citizens to gain some sort of advantage back is unconscionable and abhorrent. http://www.sunstateactivist.org
matt, fear and division of fellow Americans is an old GOP gambit for winning elections. Rachel Maddow on occasion will bring this up - and she's right!
if a gay fireman were to try to help mr perry from a burning bldg. would he rather burn??
"Obama's war on religon?" Did President Obama prohibit kids from celebrating Christmas or praying in school? How stupid does Mr Perry think we are? I am thoroughly disgusted by the hateful, inciteful, and unchristian statements that are made by people who profess to be "Christians." Is tolerance not a Christian trait?
All of the Republicans who profess to hold strong religious values but make a candidate whose personal life flies in the face of traditional family values, a candidate who has been censored for ethics violations, the leader in their preference polls utterly astound me. Their hypocracy is so obvious even they should be able to see it.
Nope. The Government has never banned prayer, they banned requiring prayer, a subtle difference totally lost on most zealots. Also, celebrating Christmas was never banned, but Government support for the religious ceremonies of "Christs Mass" was.
Obviously, he thinks we're just like him...
That depends, there are so many different Christian sects, and they disagree on so many things. Some do promote tolerance, some think "tolerance" is heresy, and some preach tolerance but act intolerantly.
You both assume Perry thinks. Big mistake.
Thanks Mr. Perry. How about on November 12th, 2012, you take all those 21 years olds and storm the WH?
Heaven forbid the President's war on religion is run out of the 3rd Federal Agency that you can't even remember. Please just go somewhere other than in front of a camera.
LOL Allen
pander and distract, pander and distract, pander....
These Republicans are lunatics! What group of people are they catering too again?
Is Americans really that swallow to believe such BS!
No matter what - President Obama is the best bet for the sanity of this country. Because thus far it appears we have a bunch of numbskills - seeking to take his place.
God knows - with all the progress made dispite the Republican partys attempt to stall it... we can't let idiots like Perry or Newty into the oval office.
TRUTH - not Crap
Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
If you disagree with Perry, fine. I do also. He does not represent all Republicans. I am assuming that you are a liberal Democrat. On some issues I am liberal as well. It is tempting to lump all Republicans together, but that is the same reprehensible tactic that the right uses, resulting in posters inventing words such as libs/dem/socialists. You could spend all day slamming each candidate individually, and it would probable be accurate and effective in many cases, but this approach just alienates moderates. That is inadvisable because most scientific and sociological data tends to support moderate and left positions concerning policy, so no need to replace strong evidence with a broad generalization. If people cannot be appealed to by logic and established moral argument, then the entire point of a democracy is moot anyway.
Of course everyone falls somewhere within the political spectrum and not neatly into a niche but it is the GOP that paints with a broad brush labeling anyone who is not an ultra conservative as a socialist. You may have an aha moment if you stop to realize the GOP stopped calling anyone to the left of center a communist about the time the moneychangers,IE job creators, found that communist China was an excellent source of low wage, enslaved workers. They must not anger thier business partners thus the adoption of socialist as thier ( be very afraid) buzzword. An intelligent discussion of issues would be nice but i think you can assume by reading the regular posters to this sites missives and Perry's play to the bottom tier that it may never happen .
Thanks for your insightful response.
Perry has a problem remembering three things at once. This time, he forgot the third branch of government, the U.S. Supreme Court.
Desperate times summon forth desperate measures from desperate people.
If God wants Perry to win, then can't God help him win?
Funny you never hear any politician claim that "God wanted them to loose", only that God wanted them to run
God wants Michelle Bachmann to win, too, according to her. "Two men say they're Jesus--one of them must be wrong."
Sick of these idiots
Not only is Obama waging a war on religion, he is waging a war on God. Zeus, Budah, Allah, Jeebus and all of the rest of em too. And dont forget he eats children (but only the Christian ones... he makes the rest gay).
I know these candidates annoy a lot of people but I find them all very entertaining. I hope they all stay in.
Constitution: Separation of Church and State
Now Slick Rick wants to throw out the constitution and combine religion and State affairs as he see fit. WOW
Slick Perry call God again and ask him WTF to do.
solutions- yours is the typical ignorant rant of the anti-Christian left.
Nothing Perry has said violates the Constitution as regards religious faith and govt.
James Madison, Father of the U.S. Constitution - “We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to The Ten Commandments of God.”
“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”-Patrick Henry
We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. -John Adams, Address to the Military, October 11, 1798
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." -John Jay, Constitutional Framer and 1st Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
"The 1st amendment has created a wall of separation between church and state, but that wall is a one directional wall, it keeps the government from running the church, but it makes sure that Christian principles will always stay in government." - Thomas Jefferson
"From the time of the Declaration of Independence, the American People were bound by the laws of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which they all acknowledge as the root of their conduct. We all came together to obey the word of God." - John Quincy Adams
“It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary. Preachers of every Protestant denomination appeared. (Catholic priests began officiating in 1826.) As early as January 1806 a female evangelist, Dorothy Ripley, delivered a camp meeting-style exhortation in the House to Jefferson, Vice President Aaron Burr, and a "crowded audience." Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers.”
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html
MARYLAND SUPREME COURT, 1799: "Religion is of general and public concern, and on its support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people. By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty.
In 1828, the Connecticut Supreme Court "ruled that disbelievers in accountability to God or in an afterlife were not competent witnesses." Indeed, as late as 1939, five states and the District of Columbia excluded the testimony of those professing a disbelief in God, and, in a dozen or so additional states, the testimony of nonbelievers was subject to attack on the ground that one's credibility was impaired by irreligion or a lack of belief in a deity.
"What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ." - President George Washington Speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs, May 12, 1779
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of man and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?" -
George Washington's Farewell Address, September 19, 1796
On April 25, 1789, the Senate elected its first chaplain, Samuel Proovost, an Episcopalian bishop. On May 1, the House followed suit, electing Congregationalist William Linn. Later, on September 25, Congress passed a statute setting the salaries of various Congressional officials, including the chaplains, at $500 per year.47 As many commentators have noticed, and as the Marsh court stressed, this last act occurred only three days after Congress reached final agreement on the Bill of Rights.
By 1789, the chaplaincies were by law established under the new Constitution, and thus our focus moves from the debates about their existence to the practicalities of their operation. By statute, the House and the Senate are to elect chaplains of different denominations. We have NEVER had a non-Christian House or Senate Chaplain.
ANDREW Jackson, the seventh President of the United States, asserted that, "The Bible is the Book upon which this Republic rests."
And more recently
President Franklin D. Roosevelt not only led the Nation in a 6 minute prayer during D-Day on June 6, 1944, but he also declared that If we will not prepare to give all that we have and all that we are to preserve Christian civilization in our land, we shall go to destruction’;
"The fundamental basis of this nation's laws was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings we get from Exodus and Saint Matthew, from Isaiah and Saint Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the State!"--Harry Truman
"America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness, which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scriptures. Part of the destiny of Americans lies in their daily perusal of this great book of revelations. That if they would see America free and pure they will make their own spirits free and pure by this baptism of the Holy Spirit." From his famous address: "The Bible and Progress," ~ Wilson, 28th President of the United States; May 7. 1911, Denver, Colorado.
Larry,
Here is clue #1: We no longer live in the 18th Century.
Here is clue #2 : Politicians will say about Religion whatever is politically expedient to say about it at the time.
Here is clue # 3: We enjoy Freedom of Religion in America, so politicians, and even you, can say what you believe about God and religion whenever you want to. But your profession of your truths doesn't make it true.
Here is clue #4: Freedom of Religion is the first Freedom. Without it you will have no other.
And finally Freedom of Religion is first and foremost freedom FROM Religion, (and by extension all the bizarre insanity that comes with it)
Clue #5: More of a warning actually, beware of those for whom the ends justify the means; that's always a sure sign of the moral corruption you fear.
The same Patrick Henry that refused to join the convention that wrote the Constitution of the United States, because, as he said "I smell a rat"? Yep, he didn't like the Constitution precisely because it didn't establish a Christian Theocracy the way he wanted it.
Oh, and making up a phony quote from Jefferson, trying to make him say something he didn't is "bearing false witness". Isn't there a scripture against that? Or is there an exception to that commandment when promoting Christianity?
Larry can post irrelevant quotes all he wants, but Supreme Court decisions going back to the 19th century have defined, upheld, and enforced the First Amendment's separation of church and state. Perry's line o' crap is irrelevant and pointless as is Larry's post. Shame.
As we have consistantly seen they seek to impose their beliefs on others by force of law. Anyone who does not share their religion is deemed to be attacking it. They seek a society very much like those they claim to hate so much.
Should they succeed we will find ourselves in a society like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran or Yemen. All of these cultures impose religion on all citizens as law. This is exactly what republicans seek to do.
I have included some quotes from Justice Hugo Black in regard to the First Amendment. Although I am sure that these concepts will be disregarded by republicans, others will see the wisdom of these ideas
The plain truth is that many of the founders where in fact very adamant about thier religion but they where just as adamant about making sure religion and governance had a barrier. In his draft of the preamble Jefferson wrote we are endowed by God with certain inalienable rights. When sent to Ben Franklin for approval Franklin stuck out the word God and replaced it with our creator. Hmmm, D##ned multiculcuralist liberals or ones who had seen the tyranny a government sponsored religion could engender?
Sorry, Larry, but at least one of your quotes is completely inaccurate (Jefferson's letter mentioning the separation of church and state):
Source: http://www.tenamendmentsday.org/jefferson.php
The actual text of the letter is on the left side of the site above.
Larry finds it necessary to fabricate lies in order to twist facts to conform with his fantasies. Reality makes people like Larry uncomfortable.
Starting with the fact his 'as a babe at first suck' superstition has no connection with reality and is no different than any other 'manufacturer' superstition. Once that is in place everything else is easy. Sad, but when the terror levels are kept elevated the cognitive functions are rendered inoperative.
In effect, they're the 'Red Queen' who hasn't trouble believing six impossible things before breakfast due to a history of daily practice.
The problem isn't, imo, Christian Reich Wing (Seig Heil, Jesus) Taliban. The problem is other Christians keep putting these lunatics into office.
As usual, Larry cannot get his facts straight (no pun intended). In the first place, this quote:
was never said or written by Patrick Henry; it has never been found among his papers, nor among any reports of his speeches or written recordings of his utterances.
Second, the Jefferson quote --
likewise has never been found among his papers or recordings of his utterances. In fact, the exact wording of his letter to the Danbury baptists is as follows (according to the Library of Congress, in case Larry doesn't believe my sources):
The quote from the Maryland and Connecticut Constitutions are irrelevant, as they are trumped by the US Constitution, which is the supreme law of this land, and no state constitution can override it. You might also want to note that there is a specific Article in the Constitution which states:
No state constitution or law can override this, either. In fact, in every state in the US, no one is required to swear on a bible prior to giving legal testimony of any kind; if one objects to swearing an oath to any god, one can affirm (instead of swear) that s/he will tell the truth.
I would also point out to Larry that Andrew Jackson and Woodrow Wilson have never been part of the Founding Fathers, as they had nothing to do with the creation of this country, nor did they participate in the formulation of our Constitution.
And if you really want to know how the REAL Founding Fathers felt about religion and Christianity, Larry -- and its "role" in government -- here are some quotes for you:
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" --- John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" --- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson
"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels, condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are the forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because suspected of heresy? Remember the 'index expurgatorius', the inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter and the guillotine." --- John Adams, letter to John Taylor
"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes." --- John Adams, letter to John Taylor
The clergy...believe that any portion of power confided to me [as President] will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion." -- Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800.
"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." --- Thomas Jefferson, to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814
"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." --- Thomas Jefferson, from "Notes on Virginia"
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." --- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787
"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests." --- Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1803
"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State." --- Thomas Jefferson to S. Kercheval, 1810
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." --- Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813
"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind." --- Thomas Jefferson to Carey, 1816
"But the greatest of all reformers of the depraved religion of his own country, was Jesus of Nazareth. Abstracting what is really his from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill, we have the outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man. The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent morality, and the rescuing it from the imputation of imposture, which has resulted from artificial systems, invented by ultra-Christian sects (The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity; original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of the Hierarchy, etc.) is a most desirable object." --- Thomas Jefferson to W. Short, Oct. 31, 1819
The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes; fools and hypocrites. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson
Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins ... and you will have sins in abundance. I would not dare to dishonor my Creator's name by [attaching] it to this filthy book [the Bible]. Thomas Paine
Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind. Thomas Paine
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. Thomas Paine
Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religions. George Washington
Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society. George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 726]
Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. George Washington, letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792
If they are good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa or Europe; they may be Mahometans, Jews, Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists.... George Washington, to Tench Tighman, March 24, 1784, when asked what type of workman to get for Mount Vernon, from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover
...I beg you be persuaded that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution. George Washington, to United Baptists Churches of Virginia, May, 1789 from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover
As the contempt of the religion of a country by ridiculing any of its ceremonies, or affronting its ministers or votaries, has ever been deeply resented, you are to be particularly careful to restrain every officer from such imprudence and folly, and to punish every instance of it. On the other hand, as far as lies in your power, you are to protect and support the free exercise of religion of the country, and the undisturbed enjoyment of the rights of conscience in religious matters, with your utmost influence and authority. George Washington, to Benedict Arnold, September 14, 1775 from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)
"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison (Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).)
I have examined all the known superstitions of the World, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world ...
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind ... to filch wealth and power to themselves. [They], in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ. Thomas Jefferson
It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. Thomas Jefferson
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear. Thomas Jefferson
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - James Madison, 1785
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." James Madison, letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774
"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." James Madison, 1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches
". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist." Benjamin Franklin
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England." Benjamin Franklin
"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." Benjamin Franklin
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin, in Poor Richard's Almanac
Perhaps John Adams said it best himself:
Treaty of Tripoli, 1797
Larry, like so many other conservative Christians, does not let facts get in the way of his bigotry and ignorance.
Well done, Erin!
i like that about perry, he does not mind eliminating the constitution for religions sake. he should run for dictator of iran
I've suggested several times these folks are more than welcome to move to a Mid-Eastern Theocracy. For some (tic) strange reason (tic) they're against that suggestion.
I was aware of Afgan, Iraq, the 'war' on drugs....I dont remember seeing any notice on the 'war' on religion.....when did this start?
When us heathens started demanding that Perry's religion start getting treated like all other religions.
Reports from the front lines (Target, Walmart, Toys-R-Us) of the "war on Christmas": This year, as they have in the past, anti-Christian forces are again attempting to replace "Merry Christmas" with "Happy Holidays" in store advertisements and decorations. Unconfirmed reports are circulating that some stores have even replaced the revered Christian idols, Santa Klaus and Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer, with secular figures like Frosty the Snowman. (storyline by Fox Noos reporter, Herkimer Jerkimer).
LOL! Sadly, a slight variation of this wil be arriving soon. Compliments of the Religious Wrong.
And of course, there is "something wrong" with Perry for an inability to recognize the difference between the Constitutional separation of church and state and the lack of any restrictions on rights based on sexual orientation in the same document.
I am a Christian. I pray off an on several times a day. It's a very personal ongoing conversation between myself and my father, my friend and God. No one can tell me when to pray and when not to pray nor do I force anyone else around me into praying with me. Prayer is a deeply personal thing. It should never be disruptive or unwelcome. It is not necessary to set aside a specific time for everyone to pray. Anyone including a child can at any time speak to God. There is no need for a pastor, priest, teacher or principal to lead the prayer. Teach your children to have a personal relationship with God and none of this will be an issue.
This is political dogma and that has no place in either our schools or in our relationships with God.
AMEN
Underwhelmed... do you really think our schools are better since they removed prayer? Do you think america is a better place today than in the 1950's when everyone embraced Christian values? I agree anyone can pray at anytime, but it is true that america has embraced immorality. It seems that everyday a law suit if filed over some Christian religious tradition. Imagine the uproar if you schools started telling students they could not refer to allah in a graduation speech. They have no problem telling students to not mention Jesus. The biggest problem with America is that too many Christians think their faith has no place in the public square. Jesus' last command was to go into all the world making disciples. Well, you cannot sit quietly and keep your faith to yourself if you are trying to fullfil the great commission. Praying for your breakfast, lunch, and dinner does not count. You need to pray and ask God how he feels you should be sharing your faith. Just remember that when judgement comes there will be many people who say they healed the sick in Jesus' name and cast out demons in His name, but he is still going to tell them that He never knew them. A closet Christian is not a Christian at all. You don't have to shove your religious views down someones throat, but you should live your life in a way that people do not have to ask you what you believe. they should be able to see it in your everyday life.
disgusted-everyone embraced christian values in the 50's? Tell that to my jewish grandparents. Please exist the bubble soon
Well disgusted, in the 50's a church was a local community place, not today's for profit mega churches, a CEO made about 30 times what the lineman did not 450 times more, a family could have a nice life on one salary, mom was able to stay home and raise the kids, they weren't forcing standardized testing in schools, school administrators did not collect a salary that rivaled a bank executive, there were adds encouraging you to buy American and "look for the Union label", no Walmat and wall street, banks and big business actually had regulations. But let's not think about all that, it MUST have been God. Puhleeeeeese!
Let us not forget McCarthyism. Nothing says christianity like a good old fashioned witch hunt...
I guess you don't want "GOD" in your life?,or your kids? I grew up better than they do now,we talked about & prayed in school.If the Athiests don't like it they can "STUFF IT""""!!!!!!
Hallelujah, you understand! The Supreme Court didn't ban prayer in schools, they banned Requiring prayer in public schools. Prayer that is forced or a routine daily ritual has no meaning.
Now if you could only teach your fellow Christians to lead by example and not try to convert by force, that would make things so much better.
Underwhelmed-488063,
there are others who prays everyday like you but also enjoys forcing religion onto others because it is a duty of their conviction. Are you writing to say that you pray and are deeply religious but you do not wish to share this with another lost soul? Even if you have to force it upon them like sqeezing them until the devil vacate the body? Are you for real?
Are you for real? Underwhelmed is doing exactly what Jesus instructed all Christians to do:
Matthew 6:5-6
5“When you pray, don’t be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get. 6But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private. Then your Father, who sees everything, will reward you.
Underwhelmed, I'm glad you're enjoying your regular pretend times. I would like to help you, and I think you should know that I pity your powers of reason. I think religious culture is the biggest threat to this nation, people spending so much time and energy on that which cannot possibly be true. We live in a natural universe that functions according to natural laws. There is no 'agent' in the background pulling strings for those who close their eyes and send thought waves at it. (see works, Dr Michael Shermer) 'Agenticity' is a product/reflection of the human mind.
It all comes from a primitive time when the story was it was Zeus, just above the clouds, throwing down those thunderbolts. It made more sense than most guesses when the Earth was the flat center of the universe. It's all from a long, long line of false 'holy men' who were expected to know, and when they didn't, they made it up, and often believed it themselves. Christianity was a made up deal between these men and the emperor Constantine. If you know anything of the minds and motivations of humans, the obvious, much simpler explanation is that these stories of gods and resurrections are made up by men for the purposes of men, such as controlling the tribe. Christianity is a cult imported from the Middle East. Sweetened up, it still comforts the women, quiets the children, and gets the men to die bravely in battle. This is it's function.
And like many religions, it thrives by telling it's followers what they should Fear. When you're five, they make you sing Jesus Loves Me, and you're indoctrinated into the great family centered club. By the time you're seven or eight, you know you must fear their invisible god, or it will bring you a lump of coal, light it and shove it up your butt for eternity.
The problem with this is it has created a base of people in this nation, largely across the South, who are well conditioned to be told what to fear. They are also well conditioned to believe they won't have to fear if 'they all believe together.' This is the origin and base of Perry's ad, the standard technique of manipulating the already brainwashed by telling them what to fear, with bells ringing in the background. It's an extension of religion's mind control.
It's the 21st century now, Underwhelmed. There are no rational reasons to believe there is a god or that anyone has ever risen from the dead, only cult-conditioned reasons. Religion in Europe has not declined because there are fewer good people there (though some branches of the cult may claim this). It's because they've been getting very good science education. It's clear to a lot of us that arguments beginning with "There has to be a god because... " have all been refuted. It's not what I'd prefer to believe, it isn't what I want to get together and sing hymns about, it's just the plain truth.
The old story was that this was the center of the universe, and we and the earth had all been created simultaneously so that the gods, later god, could watch us and judge us and intervene on our behalf to protect us from death at every turn. It was taken on as a belief just as people hung charms around their necks. It is actually a protection racket.
But now that we see the universe is more than 450 billion years old and clearly working by natural laws - even if there were a creator of it, why would it need me to show up weekly at church to pucker up to it's invisible butt? God makes no sense at all, science does, and I'm very happy with understanding a bit more about how our universe works without the silly, totally self-flattering fairy tales. They say you must believe what they tell you to be a 'good' person, Fear and Flattery.
I'm not saying I don't like you, Underwhelmed, I bet I would. I just thought you should know, there isn't anybody or anything watching you when you're alone. That story was told to you when you were little to control you. It's a saccharine sweet story, and lots of people like to wallow in it and spread it around, but it isn't true. No rational reason to think so.
Regards,
DV
Underwhelmed, I'm glad you're enjoying your regular pretend times. I would like to help you, and I think you should know that I pity your powers of reason. I think religious culture is the biggest threat to this nation, people spending so much time and energy on that which cannot possibly be true. We live in a natural universe that functions according to natural laws. There is no 'agent' in the background pulling strings for those who close their eyes and send thought waves at it. (see works, Dr Michael Shermer) 'Agenticity' is a product/reflection of the human mind.
It all comes from a primitive time when the story was it was Zeus, just above the clouds, throwing down those thunderbolts. It made more sense than most guesses when the Earth was the flat center of the universe. It's all from a long, long line of false 'holy men' who were expected to know, and when they didn't, they made it up, and often believed it themselves. Christianity was a made up deal between these men and the emperor Constantine. If you know anything of the minds and motivations of humans, the obvious, much simpler explanation is that these stories of gods and resurrections are made up by men for the purposes of men, such as controlling the tribe. Christianity is a cult imported from the Middle East. Sweetened up, it still comforts the women, quiets the children, and gets the men to die bravely in battle. This is it's function.
And like many religions, it thrives by telling it's followers what they should Fear. When you're five, they make you sing Jesus Loves Me, and you're indoctrinated into the great family centered club. By the time you're seven or eight, you know you must fear their invisible god, or it will bring you a lump of coal, light it and shove it up your butt for eternity.
The problem with this is it has created a base of people in this nation, largely across the South, who are well conditioned to be told what to fear. They are also well conditioned to believe they won't have to fear if 'they all believe together.' This is the origin and base of Perry's ad, the standard technique of manipulating the already brainwashed by telling them what to fear, with bells ringing in the background. It's an extension of religion's mind control.
It's the 21st century now, Underwhelmed. There are no rational reasons to believe there is a god or that anyone has ever risen from the dead, only cult-conditioned reasons. Religion in Europe has not declined because there are fewer good people there (though some branches of the cult may claim this). It's because they've been getting very good science education. It's clear to a lot of us that arguments beginning with "There has to be a god because... " have all been refuted. It's not what I'd prefer to believe, it isn't what I want to get together and sing hymns about, it's just the plain truth.
The old story was that this was the center of the universe, and we and the earth had all been created simultaneously so that the gods, later god, could watch us and judge us and intervene on our behalf to protect us from death at every turn. It was taken on as a belief just as people hung charms around their necks. It is actually a protection racket.
But now that we see the universe is more than 450 billion years old and clearly working by natural laws - even if there were a creator of it, why would it need me to show up weekly at church to pucker up to it's invisible butt? God makes no sense at all, science does, and I'm very happy with understanding a bit more about how our universe works without the silly, totally self-flattering fairy tales. They say you must believe what they tell you to be a 'good' person, Fear and Flattery.
I'm not saying I don't like you, Underwhelmed, I bet I would. I just thought you should know, there isn't anybody or anything watching you when you're alone. That story was told to you when you were little to control you. It's a saccharine sweet story, and lots of people like to wallow in it and spread it around, but it isn't true. No rational reason to think so.
Regards,
DV
DV....your post is brilliant. Unfortunately you are using logic and rationale to deal with illogical and emotional(fear) people. Humankinds quest for immortality will always make some of its less evolved beings fall prey to "faith".
They believe faith is a virture. We know it to be a vice and an excuse to discount all science, reason, and fact.
Well I know that if I was still a Pentacostalist that I would be extremely hostile to having one of them god damned Baptists leading any of my kids in prayer. Far better to have a moment of silence used as you will then to have one of them god damned Baptists lead any of my kids in prayer. Got that?
"You know something is wrong with this country when".........someone like Rick Perry can run for president.
Even more evidence is when people ACTUALLY defend this buffoon.
He just likes Christmas cookies and candy canes and can't imagine that a school wouldn't be promoting them this time of year. He's also having a hard time imagining what it would have been like for him to have to keep up his academics pre-Winter break if the kids who actually can remember lines are pulled out of class to perform the yearly Christmas pageant.