The man is a bloated pig.

Ain't he, Sparkie?

The man is a bloated pig.

A very rich bloated pig Buzz!

Complete with the Stepford Wife who has ice water running through her veins...

DBO - This is one line of attack I'm glad Gingrich is pushing.

Let us all face the inevitable: Mitt Romney will win the nomination. Yes, I know what the polls say, but there is no way Gingrich ends up winning. Republicans aren't that stupid. Personally I'd love a Gingrich win, but I'd also love to win the lottery and frankly, my winning the lottery would (under other circumstances) seem more likely than Newt winning the nomination. I mean come on, the Republicans kicked Gingrich out of Congress for being scum. There is no way he wins the nomination...

When Romney wins he will be weakened, and the more conservatives attack him over his time at Bain Capital the better it will be for all of us.

I'm not sure what the repubs will do, I think they aren't even paying attention to the most conservative of the repubs, probably the best repub candidate. Huntsman. So who cares I don't think Romney or Gingrich will win, not to mention Bachmann and Libertarian Paul. So even with our flawed Pres. we will still win. Hillary still would be the best.

Hillary 2012

nisl,

When Romney wins he will be weakened

I like the picture you're painting and hope it's true. Frankly, Newt's chances of winning scares me because I think he might be a more formidable opponent in the general election than Mittens. Some people on the right like his bomb-throwing.

Jack - I can understand why you might find Newt more formidable then Mitt. Newt may be a POS but at least he isn't a robot.

But come on, the Republican establishment remembers Newt. They won't allow a Newt victory.

nisl, It would be fun if it went right down to the convention. Some real surprises could come out of it, and whoever was named would be seriously weakened--a word that I am coming to relish.

BTW - I recall you saying you're from Texas, and thought of you a couple of days ago when I ran across an article by a freelancer in Rolling Stone. The article was about Perry. The writer attended an event in Georgia and said that when Perry took the stage (this is a quote, as best I remember it) he "looked ashen and exhausted, like a funeral director with a hangover." Wonderful imagery, and very apt!

nisl --- I like Robots. I think they are the future, then Mitt is ahead of our Time. I want Romney to win the presidency. He will be the best.

So much for Newt staying positive. Lying like always. People... WAKE UP !! He is not the right man. Stop ignoring his stupid lies. He is playing Americans like they are stupid, and it looks like 50% of them are (who ever is supporting this garbage).

Jack - Yeah, Perry has some serious medical issues related to his back. Back pain is no laughing matter and I fully understand why Perry (or anyone) might need medication for it.

I'm not a fan of Perry's. I don't think he has the intellect, the temperament or the work ethic to be President, but I do sympathize with him regarding his back.

As long as he remains at the bottom of the polls I'm content to limit my criticism of Perry to, "Oh, bless his heart."

Hey - you know who has a fantastic business background Drive By?

A bloated pig Drive By? I don't know, but certainly not the kind of kind Obama seems to love so much. You know not a Goldman Sachs alum.

Hey - you know who has a fantastic business background Drive By?

Nisl knows. That's right- John Corzine. Dude kicked ass. He's worth millions if not billions.

So nisl you say no Sarbanes Oxley charges. How 'bout some Frank-Dodd?

You know the part where specific limits were put on the leverage ratios? Funny thing is, even after those limits Corzine was leverged at 40% plus. Funnier still is the regulator in charge call him on it, but Corzine reminded the former staffer that he was Corzine.

The guy Biden has said many times was the 'very first person" he and Obama called in January '09. The guy who has bundled so much money for Obama, and who apparently still is Obama's liaison to Wall Street.

Then of course there may be a couple of basic banking las that say trading money you are holding in a liquid account is bad.

But it's nisl - he's enjoying his 'due process' rights. I wonder nisl, where in the process are we now? and where will we be next week?

Bain capital is the Bogey man around here. Yet MF Global appears to be peachy.

Agreed - that one must have stung.

It sure seems like Romney is uncomfortable in this fight, while Gingrich feels at home.

So, Nasty Redhead, are you pretending you didn't see my First Thoughts post number 1.87

Hey idiot from Albany, I saw it!

It wasn't worth my time to respond to you!

You seem to believe you are of some significance to me?

When in fact I find you to be an ignorant, impotent, attention seeker!

Are you clear now?

Yes I am LMFAO@U little Joey!

Gingrich and Romney (to each other) (paraphrased to save bits and bytes):

Am not. Are, too. Are not. Well, then, you are, too. Am Not. Are, too ....

Heavenly day -- it was the weekly "two-for-one" soundbite sale.

I can hear those DNC digital recording devices whirring from here.

And Vladimir Putin's brain, too.

Jack in Portsmouth

nisl, It would be fun if it went right down to the convention. Some real surprises could come out of it, and whoever was named would be seriously weakened--a word that I am coming to relish.

Jack, if the contest does come down to the convention, there's a very strong possibility that none of the candidates we see today will get the nod. A dispersed vote would mean that there could be a string of ballots that still don't produce a nominee - and after so many of those, the delegates are free to change their votes.

In such a situation, nominating conventions in the past have seen an alternative cadidate placed before the delegates. "Unity" candidates for nomination have been chosen that way in the past, and given the current crop of candidates, that could be what comes out of a previously-deadlocked convention next year.

However, to me at least that looks unlikely. I think that by March there will be a candidate who is clearly going to become the nominee, and that from then until August that person will not be running against other hopefuls in the GOP, but the President and the Democratic party in general. Next year should, if the Democrats are smart, see a very, very strong emphasis on candidates running against GOP freshmen in Congress and taking on some of the most divisive Republicans up for re-election to the Senate.

Fiesty,

Based on our back and forth on Friday, I think you might like my #1.94 in "First Thoughts."

[That's right- John Corzine.]

Strive for adequacy, "counselor"...

Yeah, but Anna Molly, it always benefits the guy who is better at it and the guy who has less ad money. In this case, Gingrich is both. He's happier than a pig in slop the longer this "are not, are too" spat continues.

In terms of imagery, it really detracts from the artificial, plastic, presidential appearance Slick Willard has worked hard to create... but it makes Gingrich look like Gingrich. In fact, it's the part of Gingrich that Republicans liked and propelled him to speaker. Remember, he didn't lose that position because he was too combative. Party members know and remember a lot about Gingrich, good and bad. This is re-emphasizing what they saw as good.

For those feeble minded teabaggers who are so deluded as to think Gingrich has big plans for America, can someone explain why Newt thinks it is a good idea to build mirrors in space to make Earth more "habitable"?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/dec/12/david-brooks/david-brooks-says-newt-gingrich-once-proposed-putt/

With ideas like that, it's a wonder Newt can feed himself without drawing blood.

John A - yep. Been saying that for a while myself. That would be fun, wouldn't it?

John A:

I think that by March there will be a candidate who is clearly going to become the nominee, and that from then until August that person will not be running against other hopefuls in the GOP, but the President and the Democratic party in general. Next year should, if the Democrats are smart, see a very, very strong emphasis on candidates running against GOP freshmen in Congress and taking on some of the most divisive Republicans up for re-election to the Senate.

Agreed. Where's John Dean and his "fifty-state strategy" when we need it?

Based on our back and forth on Friday, I think you might like my #1.94 in "First Thoughts."

LMAO - 'Bare-Back Mountain' no doubt!

Thanks Jack!

I needed that! ;o)

"I would just say if Gov. Romney would like to give back all the money he has earned from bankrupting and laying off employees over his years at Bain (Capital) then I would be glad to...

...give back the tax payer money I took from Freddie Mac? Try again dough boy.

It is simply hilarious to read you guys begging for some sort of GOP implosion with their primary.

I guess if my guy was as bad as your guy, I'd be hoping for some sort of "Hail Mary" to save him.

I go back to my very first coment today and suggest Obama ask Tim Tebow to be his running mate. It may be his only chance.

Spanky, you ignorant whore, have you figured out why Corzine isn't in jail yet?

No?

Well, that doesn't surprise me.

Newt is an (re)invented person

nisl,

But come on, the Republican establishment remembers Newt. They won't allow a Newt victory.

I wouldn't be so sure of that one. They've been sleeping with the devil now for quite awhile. I doubt if it would bother them to be seen in public dancing with him.

John A, good to see you.

As interesting as a brokered convention sounds, I can't see it happening but that doesn't mean it won't. I remember in 2008, there was lots of buzz about that on the democratic side; people were absolutely positive Hillary Clinton's supporters would never back Barack Obama.

As for whether Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney is the weaker candidate, it remains to be seen and as they say, be careful what you wish for.

Why hasn't Corzine been charged yet?

"It is simply hilarious to read you guys begging for some sort of GOP implosion with their primary."

Who's begging? The GOP's collection of crooks, cranks, and losers are self destructing all by themselves. Hell, by the time next November rolls around the RNC might be recruiting potential candidates at gunpoint because there will be no one left to face Obama.

Also, who thinks the use of terms like "It is simply hilarious" or "I find it amusing" have lost any meaning because they are overused and have lost their sense of irony? Those phrases have trite as as to be a tedious preface to what is usually a poorly thought out and senseless post. Like White Collar's for example.

@ Nisl surely you are not saying it is because Corzine is innocent. More likely it is due to this:

http://www.wallstreetandtech.com/regulatory-compliance/232300341

Interestingly enough, the Occupy Wall Street bunch don't think much of him either.

occupywallst.org/forum/jon-corzine-needs-to-be-the-poster-boy/

@ White Collar Auto --

I have a little research project for you (and Spanky, too, perhaps).

How long, start to finish, did it take Patrick Fitzgerald to bring down an indictment -- one and only one indictment -- against Scooter Libby -- and no one else -- for what was, by any reasonable measure -- just ask George Herbert Walker Bush -- an act of high treason?

And for how much of that time, both up to and including the trial, was Scooter Libby in jail?

Answer that. Then and only then, will we have any reasonable discussion about John Corzine.

How long, start to finish, did it take Patrick Fitzgerald to bring down an indictment -- one and only one indictment -- against Scooter Libby -- and no one else -- for what was, by any reasonable measure -- just ask George Herbert Walker Bush -- an act of high treason?

Ahh, that is just too perfect. Talk about a miscarriage of justice.

@ Anna Simple answer is that we all know Washington insiders is like a good ol' boy's club. They protect each other as long as it doesn't affect their chances of re-election. Happens on both sides of the aisle. We should all be fed up with their playing by a different set of rules than the general public.

Don't be too sure about establishment Republicans. Yesterday on Meet the Press, Lindsey Graham discussed how the coup against Newt began in his office, then said he would support Newt if he wins the nomination (hedging his bets, hoping Newt will not squash him like a bug if he became POTUS).

This thread is about the GOP/TP primary, so don't fall into the Corzine trap set by a well-known troll defined as follows:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,^[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^[4]

Once again, I have reported post #1.10, and others would do well to report it rather than reply to it -- DNFTT.

@ ksw -- agreed. I just thought I would try to confront it without all the personal insults that have been flying back and forth.

@ Jack-- Thank you. You've been on fire today, yourself. :-)

KSW - @ Nisl surely you are not saying it is because Corzine is innocent.

You are right. The obvious answer is because he hasn't had his day in court. I don't know whether he is innocent or not, but in this country people don't get sent to jail without a trial.

That seems obvious, right? It is a concept Spanky can't seem to grasp.

AM, sorry, I don't take assignments any more.

But I take bets.

Want to bet Corzine never, ever gets charged?

How about $10,000?

@ White Collar Auto -- No bet. Try reading my post again, and then remember that the REAL perpetrators in the Valerie Plame case never got charged with anything either.

And I'm still waiting on George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

Pity about the assignments. Learning should be a lifetime experience.

“I wasn't willing to stay and be a normal politician,” Gingrich admitted to a man at the Hollis Pharmacy who questioned his reasoning for stepping down as Speaker of the House. “I'd run out of the ability to convince my members to be reformers. They were burned out, they were exhausted, four straight years of doing everything and they were just too tired.”

He wasn't willing to stay? The party booted him out! He paid a fine to get out of most of the ethics charges! Besides--wasn't he so burned out with patriotism that it drove him to infidelity?

"We have met the enemy and he is us!" Pogo by Walt Kelly

Jack in Portsmouth

Frankly, Newt's chances of winning scares me because I think he might be a more formidable opponent in the general election than Mittens. Some people on the right like his bomb-throwing.

True. In referencing an episode of South Park, poor Mitt, he has spent his life doing egg carton crafts. He is up against Newt the pathological liar, and right-wing low-information voters who are predisposed to believe all of Newt's spin.

But your fear of a Gingrich presidency is why you and others (like me) would be even more motivated to get out the vote for President Obama. The right-wing votes in the same numbers every election, because they are such ideologues and loyalists who will hold their nose if they must when they pull the lever. The GOP only loses when Dem supporters and moderates (Independents, swing voters) get out the vote. And if Gingrich wins the nomination, many establishment Republicans may stay home for the first time. Two-faced dweebs like Lindsey Graham can talk their talk, but who do they hate more? That would be the question.

Anna - I like the analogy, but in my opinion the Ken Lay is the better example.

Enron went into bankruptcy in December 2001 and Ken Lay wasn't found guilty until May 25, 2006. Lay died before spending a day in prison.

[“I wasn't willing to stay and be a normal politician,” Gingrich admitted to a man at the Hollis Pharmacy who questioned his reasoning for stepping down as Speaker of the House.]

Wait...what?

Just because Noot was an historian once upon a time, he better than anyone should know that you just can't rewrite history:

Well, here's a newsflash...Noot was FORCED out by HIS OWN PARTY.

Gingrich claims to not be a "Washington insider", and that he left politics a long time ago, but if you research the subjects of his books, and even the children's books that his wife writes, they are about...

...you guessed it...P-O-L-I-T-I-C-S.

Conservatism truly IS a mental illness.

nisl --

Lay died before spending a day in prison.

That's what you think. I think Lay's still alive, and living on an island someplace.

But you're right -- it IS a better analogy. Thanks.

Day in court nisl?

Now why would the dems charge after the fact? After all the regulator in charge of ensuring that Corzine did not over leverage - you know violate Dodd-Frank, was aware of it at the time, could have stopped it, but looked the other way.

In other words nisl - the regulator knew what was going on but did nothing.

So why charge him with a crime now? That'd mean the regulator would have to a lot of 'splaining. Plus it really makes the whole "but we need MORE regulation" argument seem silly. They had the laws in place, but did nothing to prevent the theft.

Nope - he was allowed to do it, and now faces no charges because he's Obama's inside man. Gee, you think that's going to get a little play when he is charged?

AM - did someone know that Libby was committing the crime as he was committing it? If not, then this is not the same as Corzine.

Well other than the fantastic "but, but, your guy is a bad gut too" argument.

and that one is always a winner.

Oh and nisl - when the cops catch the bad guy do they take him to jail, or let him go until he "has his day in court?"

Funny how robbing bank accounts works, right?

Mickey, NY -- Hmm, I'll have to look into that children's book by Calista. Indoctrinating children -- not cool.

Punk, take a hike.

Spankey, how the hell is this relevant?

Spanky, have you figured out why Corzine isn't in jail yet? Hint, the word "trial" is likely to show up in any correct answer.

Do you even bother trying to be right, or are you in the middle of a "World's Biggest Moron" competition? They didn't have the laws in place, the regulators couldn't have known and much of Dodd Frank is being blocked by lobbyists.

Also too, about Dodd Frank:

Why are we still seeing Wall Street firms leveraged into unsustainable positions? Why also did the Federal Reserve Bank of New York grant MF Global the favored position of “primary dealer” (or seller) of Treasuries if it was operating with such high leverage?

Congress passed, and President Barack Obama signed, the Dodd-Frank Wall Street reform act last year to bring transparency and reform to our financial markets. Much of the law is still awaiting implementation, but it is still unclear whether Dodd-Frank could have prevented MF Global’s collapse.

Dodd-Frank did not even address the bet at the heart of MF Global’s failure — a repo-to-maturity on European debt. MF Global was not a bank and probably would not have qualified as a swap dealer or security-based swap dealer, entities that are specifically regulated by the law.

Under current law, Futures Commission Merchants, such as MF Global, are obligated to keep customer funds segregated. This protects customer assets and facilitates transfer of customer accounts to other firms should an FCM find itself in trouble.

The Commodity Futures Trading Commission, in fact, proposed a rule last year to change how FCMs and derivative brokers could invest client assets — like those in segregated accounts. If this rule had been in place, and not delayed by Wall Street lobbyists, would it have prevented or at least greatly limited the damage of MF Global’s collapse?

As we pursue answers, we may well find that, despite the financial crisis of 2008 and the subsequent reforms in Dodd-Frank, that Wall Street has not learned its lesson.

High leverage continues to be the norm. Financial firms are still betting on more government bailouts — this time from Europe. The Bank for International Settlements reports that the over-the-counter derivatives market has reached a record $708 trillion in size. Yet the financial community continues to fight greater oversight and accountability by pushing for legislative rollbacks and changes to Dodd-Frank.

While the struggle of MF Global customers to obtain their funds is tragic, we should not lose focus on the larger struggle to implement reforms that might prevent, or mitigate, similar collapses that further strain our weakened economy.

Anomaly, you are correct that the real perps never got charged in the Plame case.

The Libby case is a horrible one to use as precedent, counselor.

So tell me again what Libby was guilty of?

Oh yeah, he screwed up and lied when he was erroneusly charged with a crime he did not commit.

See that's the problem with these things. They don't care if they get you with what they claim you did, just so long as they get you.

Even Roger Clemens knows that.

And that is why I don't accept assignments any more.

nisl, a guy broke into my house once. the cops caught him and took him directly to jail where he awaited trial.

When he was caught, the evidence was so damning against him he was not given bail.

I believe the term was "Red Handed". (Probably some old racist Indian thing)

How come he didn't get to walk around free waiting to be charged?

Mr. Anon

Spankey, how the hell is this relevant?

I refer to this particular troll as the punk. There are times (rarely) when he posts on topic and without snark toward another FR member, and then I just ignore him. But as long as he continues to troll, I will continue to report his posts as either No Value of Inflammatory, which ever is warranted.

Chaos and disruption are exactly what trolls want instead of making a case for a position on the issue under discussion. If the punk is indeed what he claims, it is sad to think he is out there practicing law or managing employees. How about it WCA, do you think you could try posting on topic too?

[Chaos and disruption are exactly what trolls want instead of making a case for a position on the issue under discussion.]

TruePatriot, actually Spanky is impotent when it comes to chaos and disruption...but as he continues to spiral into mediocrity here on FR, he will continue to make an @!$%# of himself regularly. The best we could hope for is for him to continue to reveal himself as such so we can continue to point it out to him at every turn.

Yeah nisl - you don't think Sarbanes does it, and now not Dodd-Frank either, cause it wasn't fully implemented.

Guess he's on the clear. He is Obama's guy after all.

So TurePatriot - I don't suppose you are out anywhere doing anything?

Well at least you are always so chipper here.

so true what case are YOU trying to make? Aren't many of your posts above off topic as well (by your standards)? Interesting on how you lack the understanding of how threads can take such twists and turns.

Nice to see how you have such a follower as mouse. Between the two of you, you might actually say something of relevance and intelligence in the far distant future.

Mickey, NY -- There are many right-wing posts that reveal how Teapublicans lack Rule of Reason and make good fodder, but at least stay on topic. How many posts in this thread are about Corzine because of an attempt to turn the table to detract from the circus that is the GOP/TP primary? The punk is only mediocre if he isn't allowed success with such "strategery." Personally I've found FR to be more enjoyable without every other post by this troll.

american-2051576 -- Regulars in FR know I post on topic, though I may include other issues I feel are related or similar, and only make DNFTT comments as a side note. I admit I may present my case a little raw at times, but don't do it with intent of provoking emotional response. I don't post lies or vague talking points about "leadership" or "failed policies" I can't back up, or just "down with Obummer" the way many right-wingers do.

Back to Mickey about Calista's book:

Aimed at youngsters between 4 and 8 years old, the book looks to teach children about American exceptionalism through the main character, Ellis the Elephant, who imagines taking part in various historical events, such as the First Thanksgiving and the Wright brothers' flight. Despite its charming illustrations and educational mission, it's impossible to ignore the symbolism of the GOP's mascot set alongside early colonists who Gingrich writes were "angry and frustrated at this new tax on tea" during the Boston Tea Party, and were "standing up for the freedoms we enjoy today."

Calista is also doing speaking engagements, all to improve her own image (since she is an adulterer as well).

nisl wrote...but there is no way Gingrich ends up winning.

Republicans aren't that stupid.

I beg to differ.

Romney is willing to do the same thing for America that he did at Bain Capital:

Lay people off!

Right now it is likely Newt will gain the nomination. Right now, He would be the most formidable against the President, in fact would probably beat the President. That's now though. The election will turn on the strength and activity of the OWS next year which will be overwhelming. We need to be rid of this republican congress as much as we need to keep the president for another term. Too many overripe mouths vined from malnourished brains.

alwaysanother: Another carbuncle on the ass of factuality from "fox n friends" huh? You shilling for "semi erect" Romney or the political "hermaphrodite" Frank Luntz, or both? I suggest you know nothing, other than what someone told you, and indicative of your posts, that was a lie. I suggest you have obtained businesses in the same way "jack cut down the beanstalk to kill the giant". Preaching your fantasies here will only confuse your small mind.

I really can't believe we've come to this.

Revolution next? Or just collapse.

I guess it doesn't matter. Plant a garden to feed your family. Go fishing in hopefully non-polluted waters.

Buy a gun.

The way I demeaned myself was replying to you. Initially, your reply, post #109.62, I hoped you were a person of at least, genuine cognizance. After reading your amateurish list beginning with "Obumbo report card" I knew better. You may or may not have some formal education. I would never presume a judgement. Business and/or political acumen though, does not know you. You called me emotional which pleases me much. Many lesser minded such as yourself, fall for that, and reveal themselves as the pompous ignoramuses I suspect them to be. Playing in a world of phony theatrics for the production of a warped enterprise will only result in your disillusionment and likely a humped back. You should take me seriously here, since no one else paid any attention to you. Regards

I forgot to tell you last week Al, I LOVE the avatar! ;o)

Too funny, Al, if it wasn't quite so close to the truth.

Ditto to what Feisty said.

Al, I also think your avatar is perfect; sums it up without a single word!

Truth be told, I stole the idea for the avatar from a righty Huffington Post poster who had a no left turn avatar.

And FR libs don't understand their own hypocrisy. Lmao!

The libs always cry that he made money by laying off employees...

Ah, so Newt Gingrich is a liberal?

HINT: You may benefit from reading the web article before commenting on it.

A company v. a nation.

Are you saying America is a 'failing' country? Does the right know you are going around saying things like that??

America is a failing Country. People like you who do not see it and are not doing what they should to make it better are making it dissolve. People need to understand how a company and the economy works in order to see what is really happening.

Interesting view that the only way to make a company profitable is to lay off employees. How about increasing sales to pay off debt? How about negotiating debt to manageable levels? How about cutting pay to senior management? Typical conservative viewpoint .. employees are the bane, so let Bain come to the rescue and lay-off those despicable rats.

The difference is easy to understand, if you're inclined to understand.

A president trying to save a company from economic collapse focuses first and foremost on saving people's jobs. He may not be able to save all of them, but he tries to save as many as possible on the way to making the company viable again. A president serves the people.

Venture capitalists, on the other hand, do not make decisions based on how many jobs they will save. Their only consideration is how much money they will make. Jobs lost are merely collateral damage. If shedding jobs best accomplishes the main goal, then jobs get shed. And it doesn't bother the venture capitalist one little bit because -- just ask JoAnna, for example -- a corporation exists ONLY to make money for its shareholders.

Not only are corporations not persons; they do not exist to serve persons, either, except if there is profit in it.

A corporations job is to make money for it's shareholders whilst using the cheapest resources and the lowest cost labor. A governments job is to spend money and govern for the benefit of ALL it's citizens.

Running a corporation is not a qualification for the presidency, although you could be forgiven for thinking so when you look at the way Republicans do it.

Bain Capital was in the article nisl, was it not? Looks like you need some nisl spray to unclog your head.

Not saying anything of the sort DBO. Nice reach though.

AM ,They are both trying to come to a successful outcome. You know, that jobs saved or created thingy. Did Romney save 1,000 jobs because the company didn't fold and lose all 2,000 or did he create 1,000 jobs? Or can he lump them into the same category like Obama? Sure Romney made money but so does the government through taxes. I think the 1,000 peoples whose jobs Romney saved were pretty happy, don't you? And seeing that there company is now successful, there is a good chance they will keep them. If you have more employees than the business model can support, guess what, you become a failing organization again about to lose all of the jobs. Venture capitalist will fix the problem. The Presidents appraoch only delays the inevitable while putting us in a boatload of debt. Look no further than the stimulus money running out causing the layoff of more public sector employees. For those now starting to lose their jobs, I bet they were hoping for a permanent solution rather than a 2 year bandaid.

OK Rocco lotta#'s..So by your logic the "stimulus" worked!

Anna, If a business owner becomes a target for takeover it can be for a variety of reasons. Loss of employment comes about by the prior actions of the previous owners, not by the venture capitalists

By your logic, all the jobs lost in 2008-2010 shouldn't have occurred if business took into account that maintaining the current level of employment would be beneficial because it saved jobs at the expense of profits. Yet in recessionary times demand has dropped off and a company that ignores cash flow puts the entire business at risk as well as its employees job security in total. Takeovers are little different than recessionary pressures when viewed within the context of maintaining market share in a competitve market.

Fencesitter...

A corporations job is to make money for it's shareholders whilst using the cheapest resources and the lowest cost labor. A governments job is to spend money and govern for the benefit of ALL it's citizens.

Nice try at spin and disinformation. It really needs to read more like this...

A corporations job is to provide a suitable ROI for it's investors, provide a wage that will encourage their labor force (whether salary or hourly) to stay and use the lowest cost materials to provide their end users a product or service that they can afford and with the perceived value and quality the end user expects.

A governments job is to spend money wisely based on long term national goals or national disasters and to govern for the benefit of the majority within the basic tenents of the US Constitution. ALL the people can never be satisfied by ALL government programs, human individuality makes this impossible and impractical.

Government needs to provide its people with the freedom to decide for themselves on what they want, the means to get it and the freedom to fail; not what the government thinks they want. Funny how today many think that the government owes them a minimum standard of living, rather than what the US constitution suggested in providing for the "general welfare"

You may want to take a closer look at how Bain really worked. The industry was called Private Equity and what many of these firms did was take companies (often hostile take overs) that were well known brands but under performing and buy them. Well that is all well and good on the surface but many of these transactions were heavily financed (called "leveraged" buyouts) with very little "capital" from the purchaser. The new owner would gut the company and then leverage it further creating a tsunami of debt. The gutting would usually come from reducing the labor force and spinning and consolidating divisions. Which hurt the home city/state of the company from tax revenue and heavy unemployment. Those that survived the cuts were then made to make up for the loss of staff and resources by having their workload increased. This all made the company look "efficient"and see much better on the "books" and turn around and sell it. They usually didn't stay around long enough to see if their business plan actually worked or took the company down with the bare bones approach.

Classic example is what happened to the newspaper industry--new owners used very little of their own money and loaded it with so much debt that the revenue could never justify this imbalance. It nearly ruined many of them. Bain now owns Clear Channel Radio and kept them so that will be interesting to see how that pans out for Romney and Co. from an advertising perspective since 86% of talk radio is conservative talk. They just shut down a liberal station in San Francisco of all places. Good to control the message, huh?

The world of easy credit over a decade led to an explosion of Private Equity where you could get "in" with very little of your own money (again, leverage buyout), gut a firm and then sell it making a pretty penny. It was quite a racket while it lasted and a lot of people got in while it was easy money. The problem with all of this is that it created a huge windfall for the Private Equity firm but left a disaster in its wake and pushed off many of these ills and externalities on to society. It created no value, invented nothing, and sucked up most of the profit before it discarded the body with very little risk involved since it was the bank's money. So to compare this to Obama is just a smoke screen. Romney will have a tough go of trying to defend how he made his fortune (other than the initial fortune he inherited) on the backs of so much misery. He can spin that he knows business and creating jobs but that is a farce.

Wow alwaysanother--instead of telling us your cute little ancedote about how you helped several small businesses, (which ain't the same as the methods private equity firms employ), you provide not one shred of evidence that I can't read or interpret the English language and that my comments were inaccurate. I know that Romney left Bain CAPITAL before the Clear Channel buyout. But he still has ties to them. I use the Clear Channel example of the type of transactions Bain does. Some companies they sell, others they keep especially when it involves owning one of largest media companies in the world. When Bain came in, they fired 2,500 employees and have not rehired or replaced them. The employees are covering for the cuts, taking on more work and getting benefits cut. I used to be in radio (never worked for Clear Channel, which is the devil as far as I am concerned) and none of the conglomerate radio owners had "fat" overhead to begin with so there is a huge amount of stress that this has caused the employees but as long as the new owners are making money on others misery, I guess that is worth it.

But hey, it was a nice play to have former business associates own the medium that is the home to the largest conservative bullypulpit such as Rush or InSanity, that can make or break your presidential campaign! You cannot say that Romney is not involved in Bain--he may not "own" the firm or be involved in day to day operations, but there are still very close ties. Just like Dick Cheney no longer had ties and a personal stake in Haliburton.

To say these companies have more employees today and giving Bain credit for their hiring is misleading. So is comparing a small business takeover and a gi-normous private equity leverages buyout is also misleading. You personally may have fired people for justifiable reasons, but companies like Bain do it more indiscrimanately to make the companies look better on the books. So while we obviously disagree on Romney's job creation history and overall record on how he accumulated his immense wealth, the real debate will be if he is the nominee and he has to defend that very long record or killing jobs.

That's business, get over it. We all had a lot change since 9/11 - or I have. I had a great job in the airport equipment industry - we know where that went. And all the labor jobs went over seas after because the company could not compete with China products in price. But I couldn't understand how building a large piece of equipment in New Zealand and Australia and shipping it to the US would be cheaper. But they did it, 70% of the US work force was laid off.

We have to find ways to bring production jobs back to the US - we don't make anything anymore. But money they print out as the Fed wants, banking is our #1 industry now. We have to change that to get some jobs back.

Michigal - No linkage.

But you are right, Newt is not a conservative. Nor is he a liberal. He is merely an opportunist.

nisl - Best description of Gingrich I've read. He should run on a third-party ticket

Newt was thrown out for ethics violations, cheated for 13 years on wife #2, which I guess wife #3 didn't mind staying in the closet for over a decade says alot about her values also. Newt has NO business, he just sucks the dollar off the govt like a lobbyist - historian?????? any who believes that is up in the night.

Then there's Newtonian logic. According to it, he was responsible for balancing the budget 3 times, not President Clinton; while the current budget deficit is to be blamed on President Obama. Never mind that he voted against the Clinton tax increase which produced the revenues that created the surplus. [In fact, he denounced it as a job killer.] Never mind that he failed (in spite of shutting down the government) to force Clinton to accept his policies. He and he alone achieved the miracle.

Cal, if you want to mention logic then please use it yourself.

Imagine that, a republican voting against a tax increase. Since we have a cyclical economy I am sure that the tech boom of the nineties had little to do with increased revenues or that the dot com bust didn't occur under clintons watch. <end sarcasm>

BTW, check out the historical debt of the US. During the clinton administration our national debt increased by about $1.1 trillion.

Yes Republicans do take a vow to Grover Norquist to disavow all tax increases over their vow to uphold the Constitution. Nice priorities.

The tech boom did lead to a strong economy as did the Pay Go policies and tax increases led to balancing the budget and a projected surplus. If you want to look at how national debt fares during GOP regimes, you will see that Clinton had a pretty strong record comparatively. Hint: Clinton's $1.1 trillion pales in comparison! W. Bush record would have been even more dismal if he had stayed one more year but Obama got that present as he entered the White House. (If my link doesn't work just google The Street national debt look at presidents)

Interesting side note: The dot.com boom was created by government investment in R & D to create a little new fangled thing called the internet. So much for government not being able to create jobs!

300,000,000 people in this country....is this the best we can do?

No, of course not. This is the best REPUBLICANS can do this cycle. I'm not saying there are no smart, honest conservatives. I'm just saying that the rightwing noise machine insists that Republican candidates hew to a certain level of vitriol, and pretend to believe a certain set of principles, that many otherwise capable Republicans have taken a pass.

What I can't understand is why the Rethuglicans and Teabaggers would swoon for Gingrich when he clearly doesn't have as conservative a record as Jon Huntsman. Is it just because Huntsman talks like an adult and doesn't call the president a socialist?

I'm an independent voter myself, and as disappointed and frustrated as I am with Barack Obama, it sure looks like the GOP is doing everything it can to get him re-elected.

Philimus, politics is all about who can trip the triggers of the populace. In 2008 obama tripped the trigger, hillary and mccain didn't. In 2012 obama will need to explain why his "hope and change" didn't happen. As POTUS, blaming anyone else won't cut it, the buck stops with him and whether anyone likes it or not the next potus will be the one that trips the voters trigger.

The Democrats don't have to do better than Obama: Obama only needs to do better than the busload of crooks, crazies, cranks, and losers the GOP is desperately trying to prop up for next November's presidential election, and that is a forgone conclusion.

Obama by default in 2012. America is hold an election and the Republican Party is not going to show up!

You seem particularly fond of chain email urban myths when it comes to Obama. If the worst you can come up with are lapel pins and imaginary flag salutes, then not only has your bleak political ideology failed you, but your meager intellectual toolkit needs to be replenished.

Of course you need not be concerned that the guy that won last time was a con artist, community organizer, who has spent millions so far, hiding his past. The can't be anything there after all.

Oh well I have to take my tired but to dinner. See you all later.

I have nothing against Hillary, but she would have fared no better, no one would have. When you have a Congress that is owned by corporations and wealthy elites the President is rendered irrelevant.

time4truth, we didn't vote just for Hope and Change, we voted for the intelligent man with a long-term vision of how to get there.

Obama/Biden 2012!

Looks like intelligence doesn't count for much if he screwed the pooch on the economy and led the country in the wrong direction. Interesting on how polls have consistantly made the observation that over 60% (and growing) believe that America is heading in the wrong direction. As POTUS, this doesn't sell his leadership abilities very well, but hey, his intelligence says "if the top 2% would only pay a little more" we would be smoking. Sorry mr obama, liquidate all of their assets and give them UE benifits won't grow the economy over the long term.

Yep,,, Some historian. He failed to see that Palestine was created by the same policy that created Israel ------ He's wrong on history

He ignores the fact that history doesn't include his "Contract on America" because it didn't work

The scary thing, Jim, is this man wants to be President and therefore a voice in the middle east! Don't enough of the Arab world hate us (although, they are softening towards us, thank you Mr. President) without adding more fuel to the fire?

Even better, they can run the same commercials. That is exactly what Jerry Brown did with devastating effect in the CA governor's race. Billionaire amateur politician and governor wannabee Meg Whitman ran a commercial telling us how wonderful life was in our state when she moved here in 1980 and how she was running to restore that era. The Brown campaign aired exactly the same commercial, adding just one line at the end... "who was governor of CA in 1980?" You guessed it!

Well said there Old Vet,,, Bravo Zulu

I'm not sure they want to win.

I think their leaders would rather lose and continue attacking Obama for another four years than actually be in charge. That would make sense because their leaders do better financially with Democrats in the Presidency.

By, "Their Leaders," I am referring to Rush Limbaugh (and those like him) and Fox News. It is much easier for them to pretend towards victim hood with a Democratic President. And there is nothing they love more than pretending to be victims.

Hmmm...thanks to Talk Radio and Fox, the conservative base of the Republican Party is convinced that they are in the overwhelming majority and that the reason they lost the Presidency in 2008 was that McCain wasn't as conservative as Palin.

They look at the 2010 elections as confirmation of this.

An alternative reason for 2008 would be, based on voter analysis, that McCain didn't move far enough away from Bush and more toward the middle. And, as for 2010: a) the majority party usually loses some seats following a major Presidential victory, in the off-year; b) slow job recovery from the 2007-2009 recession; and c) poor legislative strategy on health care reform and one of the most successful special interest campaigns in American history, leading to Democrats "forcing" through Obamacare, against the polls.

But, not to fear. The same Republican base is now about to make the same mistake Democrats made in 2010, by putting Grover Norquist ahead of the same sort of poll results the Democrats ignored in 2010, on tax issues.

Now...now...needn't get nasty. But, I understand it was a diamond choker necklace, with matching diamond studded riding crop, to go with a black leather jump suit, purchased at Fredrick's of Hollywood, where he also carries a credit line.

Why, JFK? Do you feel left out?

Why, JFK? Do you feel left out?

LMFAO!

Clean up needed at Feisty's! ;o)))

Sailcat, why don't you ask HMS if he feels left out. Oh wait, its ok to attack the right but not the left. Sorry I forgot.

JFK...is that the best you can come up with??? Better quit now unless you want to insert you head farther up your A$$.Maybe you and spankster can start a new club called the Cranial Rectal Insertion Group? (CRIG dontcha know)!

Wow HMS....... think highly of women......do you!

No self respecting "Slut" (female dog) would honor a request of Newt. Don't believe me? Ask poster "alwaysanother".

Newt, the revisionist historian.

When Newt writes a book on his experiences as an also-ran in this election, he will describe himself as courageous, pious, generous, and kind.

Revisionism is just another word for the proclivity to tell bald-faced lies!

I've been around 70 years and believe me: Lies and cheating, and corruption are nothing new at all in DC. Both parties fight for a corner on that market.

Sailcat- spreading more of the Democratic left lies I see. Perhaps you and the other lefties need a history lesson

the First Speaker to be removed for ethics violations was a Democrat- Jim Wright

In 1988 Wright became the target of an inquiry by the House Ethics Committee. Their report in early 1989 implied that he had used bulk purchases of his book, Reflections of a Public Man, to earn speaking fees in excess of the allowed maximum, and that his wife, Betty, was given a job and perks to avoid the limit on gifts. Faced with an increasing loss of effectiveness, Wright tendered his resignation as Speaker on May 31, 1989, the resignation to become effective on the selection of a successor.^[12] He was the first Speaker to resign because of a scandal. On June 6, the Democratic Caucus brought Wrights's Speakership to an end by selecting his replacement, Tom Foley of Washington, and on June 30 Wright resigned his seat in Congress.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Wright

Also- you lefties and the MSM conveniently ignore that a subsequent IRS investigation CLEARED Gingrich of the charges.

You had better tell Newt because he threatened to sue Nancy if she told anything she knew.

WASHINGTON (February 3) -- The Internal Revenue Service Wednesday cleared former House Speaker Newt Gingrich of an alleged tax law violation in connection with a controversial college course he taught.

After considering the matter for three and a half years, the IRS issued a "technical advice memorandum" finding no violation of tax laws in the use of a tax-exempt entity to sponsor Gingrich's course, "Renewing American Civilization."

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/03/gingrich/?pid=2761&cob=home

"...conveniently ignore that a subsequent IRS investigation CLEARED Gingrich of the charges."

Oh, Larry. It's time someone told you that ignorance is not a virtue. If I can interrupt your blithering rant, you should be aware that I said Gingrich was charged with ethics violations. In January 1997, the House Ethics Committee concluded that (Gingrich's) inaccurate information supplied to investigators represented "intentional or ... reckless" disregard of House rules. I don't know why you think your nonsense about the IRS is relevant to anything on this thread.

Try to keep up, Larry, okay?

How many lefties in a gaggle ?

More than enough but, hopefully fewer than it takes to reelect the president.

What would you like to have an intelligent conversation about?

Don't worry plenty of lefties to re-elect our President Obama.

Your republican debates are helping us. President Obama gets a bump in the polls every-time one happens. No matter who Obama runs against they are all the same, the same republicans for the 1%. All want more tax cuts for the rich and less regulations as their only jobs plans.

That is except Newt, he wants to kill good union jobs and take children out of the classroom put them in the bathroom as a step up for their future. The funny part is that he is considered the smart one.

Main selling point for President Obama is he is not a republican and has not signed a pledge to Norquist to aid Norquist in his goal of killing America via starvation. You have seen the republicans in action this past couple years obstructing anything that might be good for the American people. Every republican votes to enrich the 1% no matter the cost to America.

Creating jobs for teachers, firefighters and policemen can't happen because republicans can't ask the richest to pay a very small tax on the second million of income in a year. No jobs for you, but Norquist and his rich backers are happy and that is all that matters to republicans.

Sorry but a "gaggle of lefties" trumps (pun intended) a google of righties!

PS if you don't know what a google is: Then google it!

Darrel,

Could you give a few examples of the socialist communist policies that the President has been pushing? Can you give an example where Dems want to end free enterprise?

I don't know what solutions Newt has but surely if he is running on lower taxes and less regulation....we've seen where that leads us (i.e. recessions).

a few of the policies

1. Student loans

2. Federal Govt determining acceptable health care coverage

3. Federal Govt requiring FREE preventative care exams

4. Federal Govt control of ALL BANKING TRANSACTIONS

5. Federal Govt control of Food production (FDA)

6. Federal Govt control of retiree health care (Medicare)

7. Federal Govt control of retirement (SS)

8. Federal Govt control of business decisions on employee pay (minimum wage)

9. Federal Govt control of Agricultural production

10. Federal Govt control of environmental policy decisions (EPA)

11. Federal Govt control of business practices (OSHA)

12. Federal Govt control of business transfers (Estate Tax, Capital Gains Taxes)

13. Federal Govt control of Landlords (Fair Housing Act)

I can go on

then add the marxist use of redistribution of wealth with the EITC, child tax credits, and the SS payroll tax proposal to tax others for the contributions

That should be a sight to behold: Social Reformer vs Fiscal Reformer: Orator vs Teleprompter Reader: OJT President vs a man, who if elected, will be only our 2nd PHD President.

Talk about free enterprise ! I would love to sell Pay Per View Tickets to that.

So Larry,

You would rather get rid of the FDA? Seriously? You don't want to feel comfortable when drinking water or eating food...that there's nothing in them that might take your life or harm you in some way?

You don't regulation on banking practices? Seriously? Were you living during this last decade and more importantly the last 5 years....did you not see the mortgage crisis when that industry was deregulated and the millions of people lost their homes?

Without the government there would be no retiree health care idiot!!!

Thanks to social security millions and millions of our seniors have been able to live out the rest of their years in dignity!! Jesus Christ whats wrong with you?

Minimum wage? Really?

EPA...I'm so sick of hearing this one. Again...if you don't care about our air quality, drinking water, etc...I don't know what to tell you.

Larry...no need to go on. I get a clear picture of the society that you wish to live in. You want our society to resemble a good ole' western movie. Where we all on our own...where life and death are determined by who can out draw the other.

Larry, this isn't a movie...the kind of society you want is intrinsically unAmerican. But whatever....I have a feeling this conversation isn't going to go to far....

Vipp,

I never said no govt controls- most of those issues should be left to the State and local govts to determine per the 10th amendment.

Nor do I advocate no financial regulation. But we have currently the Federal govt controlling EVERY form of transaction done by banks- that is unconstitutional and totalitarian.

I want an America that follows the Constitution and by your response you want one that mirrors the socialism of Europe.

Larry,

I want a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. One that protects us from the naturally greed thats created under capitalism. Thats not to say that I don't like capitalism....I do. However, government should be used to protect the people from harmful contaminents...harmful practices...and injustices. It should be their to help when people are dying as a result of business or a group of people. Many government programs you yourself have enjoyed and should be thankful. Your children will be thankful too.

No thank you Vipp- I prefer liberty which also means being personally responsible for my own life and not making others do so.

My children are all grown men who have successful lives of their own and don't rely upon being parasites of the govt.

I agree Larry, My mother raised 5 children as a single parent (father passed away) She held 3 to 4 jobs (counting her baking 1000 pies and wreaths on holidays) to make sure we did not live off the Gov. All 5 of us are to this day successful and responsible for our selves and our families. We have over 10 of us or our children who are Veterans and have given back.

congrats jollyoldsoul to you and your mother. That represents the true American spirit.

Whatever can be brought up, cheating, farting at the table, but I dont see anything that can overcome putting our nation so far in debt. Writing blank checks for the sake of writing them. And this great economy is his. Along with this great unemployment rate. 9%? WTF? And if you are a black male it is over 16%. It hasnt been that high sense 1977. And the crazy thing is that black men support this. Thats is brainwashed my friend.

Larry------------don't hold your breath for the 'Tea Party' to change anything--it is not going to happen--------Marxism is fueled by poverty and as we are increasing the level of poverty in this country the opportunities for the Marxist abound---------------I remember the early 1930's when there developed a large following for communism------what do you expect, deprive people and they are going to look elsewere!!!!!----it's a given!!!

Larry,

Did you go to public school? Do you mail or receive a letter from time to time? I would be careful in labeling others socialist when, more than likely, you have enjoyed many "socialist" programs yourself.

I didn't have a voice in where I went to school. But my children were home schooled. I don't use the post office and I don't believe in retirement or health care.

I will prove to you that retirement and health care exist.

Larry,

So essentially your not an American.

If God so blessed our nation....what would He think of your comments?

Are you not thankful for the education you received? You must have some thanks to give to those public employees that gave their socialist time to educate you, right?

You make no sense...you take for granted the safety you feel when you walk down the street...government provides your police force. You take for granted the military that protects you from rogue nations....government provides your protection. You take for granted the roads on which you drive the sidewalks that you use to walk on the street lights, the bridges, the safe buildings you walk in...everything! Look around you Larry....YOU ARE ONE OF US!!! YOUR A SOCIALIST BY YOUR DEFINITION!!!!!

Vipp,

Most of my education I have achieved on my own. By the time I was 11 I was reading 7-10 books a week in literature, history, science, and the arts. I was taught classical and jazz music appreciation before the age of 10 by my parents (who were not even middle class).

Police and Fire are LOCAL GOVT services and have NOTHING to do with the Federal Govt. I am a Military veteran and the Military is the first and foremost duty of our govt according to the constitution.

You keep conflating state and local govts with the Federal as if I oppose ALL govt. That is a strawman argument on your part. But even state and local govts should be downsized as they are also out of control.

Obviously you prefer enslavement to the state over personal liberty. I prefer liberty

Larry,

"Most of my education I have achieved on my own"....please! It's amazing that you aren't even willing to recognize how much the FEDERAL government helped in your development. You owe a ton of thanks to the FEDERAL government....you are a product of the socialist programs you hate. Isn't that a pickle.

I have met people like yourself...who have a chip on their shoulder because they feel that they worked for everything they have. Your bitter when you think of how many people need assistance...that can't work...that want healthcare but have no means in which to pay for it. But what your problem is is that you look at everything through your eyes...you think of yourself first and your struggles and successes and then come to the conclusion that everyone else must just be lazy or inept. You are unable to put the shoe on the other foot.

I want liberty....but I also want others to have healthcare...schooling...food. Sure there are some lazy people but I know people that struggle do to illness or disability. There are people that have gone through much more than you have and it would behouve' of you to remember that.

Then larry..I would surmise that you never were in the military? Am I correct? Simple question: Yes or No!

No lyin now!!!!

Vipp,

I don't want to deny anyone healthcare, schooling or food. But that doesn't mean I want to make others pay for it.

As a pastor I teach and encourage that Christians are to dedicate themselves to helping those who need help. But that is far different from the compulsion by threat of govt.

TorpedoYou

Then larry..I would surmise that you never were in the military? Am I correct? Simple question: Yes or No!

No lyin now!!!!

I am a Veteran who enlisted at age 17 during the presidency of LBJ. I am a proud veteran who fought for my country and consider military service to be the duty of every able bodied man. The men in my family have served from every generation going back to the 1700's.

Larry Robinson-1323081: I didn't have a voice in where I went to school. But my children were home schooled. I don't use the post office and I don't believe in retirement or health care.

Larry, it's hard to believe you've not been the recipient of US postal services, ever, but if you don't believe in health care, I think it's safe to say you won't have to worry much about retirement, at least not a lengthy one.

Savvysenior

Nonsense- I've been practicing holistic health since I was a small boy (I'm now 62). I'm probably more versed on natural health then most physicians.

My family have been mostly naturopathic health practitioners and our average family longevity approaches 100 years.

I also don't believe in retirement which is another way to die younger.