To those who advocate impeachment and expulsion of Bush: Don't wish it; you might get your wish, and then the Honorable Richard Cheney becomes President of the United States.

bobf - I don't believe that Christians have to embrace war and death. On the contrary I would much rather have peace and life. However, I do believe that war is necessary at points. Despite your claims that I view Christ as a warmongerer and that I love to see people die, that is shockingly not true. I'm guessing that you are trying to be inflamatory but lets at least not attribute things to people that have never said or implied such things before. I have no idea if Jesus would've invaded Iraq. Honestly I believe that if Jesus passed judgement on the world today billions of people would die, but that is probably a better discussion in a religion or philosophy blog. You say that Christians are supposed to "preach tolerance, love, and do unto others.", and you are right, to an extent. Tolerance meaning loving the person not the sin. Love is not always nice and cuddly. When you discipline a child, you should be doing that out of love with the hope that the child learns and hence becomes a better person. Discipline is not fun or easy but it can be love. Actually, yes, some of your statements do sound Christian. Christians should believe that there is a right and a wrong. Now sometimes its not always clear what that right or wrong answer is and it may not become clear until years after the fact but there is a right and a wrong. I agree with you in your statement of "...christians should be pacifists until provoked into a war...". I would argue that we were provoked into the current war several times during the nineties and most dramatically on 9/11. Also given your definition we should not have been involved in the Revolutionary War, World War I, Korea, obviously Vietnam, and even the war you cite the Persian Gulf War. Iraq didn't attack us they just attacked Kuwait. I agree with you when you say "Christians do not go out and start a war to push their religious and political beliefs on other people". I don't think that we should start wars to push our beliefs on other people. I think that we should defend freedom but that leads us away from a religous discussion and into a what "rights" do humans have discussion. Now, on to Robert - Isreal and Palestine were talking but that is just a formality nothing will be accomplished there because Isreal keeps giving and Palestinians keep taking. Also, Bush has pushed hard for a Palestinian state. Which, I don't necessarily agree with him on but that is another issue. Saddam had the power to fund terror groups (probably with oil for food scandal money, thanks Kofi!) and was thought to have had WMD's and even if he didn't he was trying to acquire them, which in turn could've been sold to other terror groups for use against Isreal, or other Western coutries, or of course us. Are you saying that the Taliban was good and should've stayed in power because they came close to wiping out the opium trade? If you are you are way more liberal then I previously gave you credit for. The Isrealis were not fighting the Lebaneese they were fighting Hezbollah which is sponsered by Syria and Iran and quite frankly the U.S. should've helped Isreal more if they really wanted to back up there War on Terror talk. I will give you that Iraq is probably in a civil war. As far as Iran developing Nuclear Weapons we gave this one to the EU back in 2002 in the spirit of expanding our diplomatic efforts and building a coalition and they of course appeased Iran and took forever and failed to make good on promises and North Korea has been developing Nuclear Weapons ever since the Clinton administration said "okay you have the technology now can we trust you to not use it?" "Oh, we can, great, we'll follow up with you in say...never and hopefully you won't betray our trust". I'm just saying that not everything was hunky dory before W took office. As far as the middle east being stable, yeah, they were stable in their hatred and contempt for our society and freedoms. Now, obviously errors have been made in regards to the War on Terror but that hardly means we should not be fighting it. Also, what good would it have done Churchill to side with the other European countries that just wanted to appease Hitler? Sure he would've been "popular" with those countries but what good is it to be popular if you're not right. It perplexes me that everyone in the world is so against us and our government yet everyone wants to live here. If our country is run so poorly and we are so disdained throughout the world why is there years long waiting lists in some countries to come to America and why do others not even bother to come here legally? I think that most of it is classic jealousy and the rest of it is just hating whoever is the best.

Ryan, Life is wonderful in Iraq. You should go there for vacation.

Ryan thinks we are winning. So do about 20% of the American public. That is about the same percentage of Americans who believe the Tooth Fairy leaves a quarter under the pillow for every tooth deposited there. Most of them are right. Works for me.

Lynette - I think it would be scary if this country was led by whatever popular opinion was at the time. Why should we go with what the people want? Is everybody getting morning updates on the war from generals on the ground, and I'm just missing the conference call? I won't go through the litany of accomplishments and triumphs that would've been lost had the opinion polls of the day been listened too, but I'll throw a couple out there... The earth would still be flat... no Revolution against Britain... slavery would still be practiced... I think you get my point.

king george doesn't drink beer anymore, he's been blessed, God talks to him......kool aid is his drink of choice-he shares it with all his friends....

RYAN, Christianity is a blanket name for anyone purporting to be a follower of Christ. Christ was a pacifist who turned the other cheek, abhored violence and even sacrificed his life for others. He valued and revered life, and he loved all those around him ("forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"). So, how do you think a war-monger, a violent person can be a follower of Christ? God may forgive us for what we do, but I wouldn't count on that saving my soul after doing whatever I please. In my opinion, Bush is a hypocrit. He has not spoken truthfully and cannot comprehend errors or mistakes on his part (he's mentioned this many times). How you live, how you act, is how you believe, what you believe. I cannot stand the man, but I really don't wish him bodily harm. I cannot condone violence. (I only wish him to be served the justice of impeachment and full Senate conviction as I believe he deserves.) We are supposed to know better and we deserve better. We are the stewards of this world and can't seem to get past the fighting and killing of our fellow humans. DESMOND, you have made an excellent point. That hospital is only a single example of our ineptitude in Iraq. One last point, RYAN... I just don't understand nor comprehend how you and others cannot see the death & destruction in Iraq and the insurrection and then say we have been successful or are winning the war. Bush is more than just a lame duck, he's a duck without the ability to paddle or fly. He's cut his own wings and the web between his feet. 2008 cannot come too soon with a Dem Administration, to offer the world a better alternative to the chaos we've had since 2000.

Desmond--I've an even better idea for Bush this Christmas than staying in the White House. He should visit New Orleans' Lower 9th and celebrate Christmas with people there who are still waiting on rebuilding grants.

Ryan and Karl keep it simple. Classic contrarian rhetorical mush. "It may look like we are losing, but actually we have metrics which show we are 95% efficient in combat zones." It may look like the plane is heading into the ocean, but our instruments show us that we are flying at optimum speed while we adjust our altitude." "American military cannot lose a war. We just move to a different venue and call it victory." Ryan is the real deal. Really.

Lee - Why on earth would you be bipartisan when you have all the cards? I mean I know why from a multicultural all ideas are equal kind of a way but from a political reality perspective why would you waste an opportunity to put through your platform? President Clinton did it in 1992 until HiliaryCare freaked out the nation and we dumped the Dems in 94. But Clinton still managed to push through tax hikes, FMLA, and NAFTA; All were part of his campaign agenda. I know your rights are being infringed on and you can no longer plan to detonate a dirty bomb in Chicago and you can't talk to terrorists overseas, I know its horrible. I of course don't work for Karl even though I have been accused of such multiple times. I wouldn't mind working for the man but as of now I don't and I don't work for any political party or 527. I work for one of those evil corporations that employs people and...wait for it...makes money! My job is outcome based, meaning that I can work when I want and for as long as I want as long as I am getting the projects that need to be done, done. No, I'm not management I have nobody that reports to me and no, I don't make a ton of money and would consider myself part of the vastly oppressed, wished I was living in Africa so my life would be better, quickly vanishing...middle class.

Apparently I must've said something un-PC in my long winded post that addressed bobf and Robert's posts. I posted it around 2:55 or so I think, judging by my other post that made it through at 3:01. Anyway, I'm not going to take the time to put together that post again. Needless to say it was a point by point breakdown of most of their posts and it would've just given most of the bloggers here more reason to dislike me so maybe its better that it didn't make it through.

Ryan, We should "go with what the people wnat" because this is the USA, A DEMOCRACY!!! not a dictatorship. In a dictatorship, you would be free to spout whatever you wanted as long as it was approved by the government, OH, now I see, you'd LOVE that; it's what you do anyway. Is THAT your point???

Sorry for my last post. Apparently it got held up and I posted to quickly. Sorry.

caroline - I'm sorry that was not worded properly. What I was trying to say is that our politicians are elected by us and we give them the power to make decisions on our behalf. Now, some of those decisions we might like and others we might not like or see the benefit of. I was trying to say that if we didn't elect representatives and we just took public opinion polls to determine policy and other initiatives our world would be a vastly different place and I would argue, sighting some of my previosly mentioned "subjects" that would've/wouldn't of happened, that it would be for the worse.

ryan, as a decider, I think you beautifully expound the Club for Growth. Larry Kudlow, on CNBC is on the board. Your politics are his politics. he too, touted the economic growth supposedly happening in Irag just last night, (Tuesday, Dec.19th, 2006.)that group has pushed for the ultra-conservative. Based on all you say, how are we suppose to pay for the Iraq war in the good ol' U.S.A.? $170 billion a year and more? How do we get the money out of our pockets? Gotta tall ya, it's not in my pocket. You can't bleed a turnip.

Ryan has made this a perfect day for blog-watching. The arguments and positions he has articulated here represent something eerily like the real stuff that goes down in the White House (how does he do that?). Only rarely do they bother to actually try to explain their "thinking." I only wish more people could read what Ryan has posted here today. It explains a lot of things.

Ryan, on the way to truth and light, come with me to see my cousin's name on the Vietnam Memorial.Have you been there? Come with me. I know how to search through the book to find my cousin's name. We heard the same idealogy exponded then. We ended up with a Communist Vietnam, that we now trade with. Me, I ended up with a cousin that is still DEAD.

Ryan...Here's at least one person on your side. Our government is not run on a day-by-day basis by opinion polls. The only opinion poll that matters is the one that is taken every 2 years in November. That "poll" determines how government is run on a day by day basis. It amazes me how anyone who takes a Republican stance is instantly branded on this blog as an extremist mouthpiece of Karl Rove. I have news for all of you. Congress is not currently 80% Democrat and 20% Republican. It is darn near 50/50. This country has been narrowly divided for a long time between the 2 parties. Blindly labeling someone from the opposing party as an extremist is by definition wrong. How can roughly 1/2 the population be extremist? And before I get torched, yes, I know that Bush's approval ratings are in the 30-40 range at the moment. I'm not saying that 1/2 the people approve of Bush. What I'm saying is that about half the people in this country lean Republican and about half lean Democrat. Just look at the current makeup of government and that's pretty obvious. When you make a point, I've never seen Ryan say, "You're just a mouthpiece for Michael Moore." This works a lot better when you stick to the issues.

Ryan, please post when you get to Iraq. You make it sound better than Disneyland!

El Perro Locco , I never label anyone blindly, I can see" Whats going on."

Ryan, you do make some good points, but you are stretching and asuming on some of your points. But what I say about war does apply to the Revolutionary war. England was invading or trying to keep control of the USA. I agree that we should not have gone into the Korean or Vietnam war due to our fear of communism. These 2 wars were not about safety but a Neocon dream of forcing or coercing these countries to accept democracy and not communism. WW1 is a tough one. We were not threatened, but our allies were and asked for our help. I was against the first gulf war for the same reason, but when you have a real coalition of countries all working together for a common cause: Kuwait Freedom & world freedom, I came around to accepting it. But for every sucessfull war there is a Vietnam or Korea where things do not go as planned. That is why I am oppose to any war that does not involve our security. We are the greatest country on earth, we have the biggest military, so no one is really a threat, unless you let them. I served and have a lot of trust in our military to protect us. Do not let the terrorists win by intimidation. The war on terror is not new, we have actually been fighting the war on terror for many years. Terrorism did not just pop up now during Bush, we have been fighting them for as long as I can remember. The only difference now is you have a white house that wants to attack our civil liberties instead of terrorist. Insted of investing time and people into defining and finding terrorist's, we go after the very freedoms that all prior americans have fought for. I am impressed and congatulate you for hanging in there Ryan. You do attempt to respond to all bloggers. I honestly think we are a lot closer than we want to admit. It is sad sometimes when political polarization makes it hard to have an honest discussion. Last thought, the Taliban, who do you think armed the taliban when they were waging their vietnam style war with Russia. We helped to create and arm the taliban until 9-11. Only then did we go after the taliban for giving OBL shelter. I was all for invading Afganistan, but was screaming from the roof tops to not invade Iraq. When debating try to keep from using words like would, should, or could have. These are devicisive words and opinions. Just the facts mam, just the facts. Sgt Friday from Dragnet.

Olivia, our President will not be visiting the Gulf Coast this Christmas, or any time soon in the hereafter. What I have heard is that John Edwards will announce his candidancy for President, in New Orleans on December 28th. Ground zero for the Katrina victims.meanwhile, our President will be on his sprawling ranch, a place only the top 1% can afford to live, and ask the rest of us to put up the money for the Iraq War and the bodies to go with it. I would give the money and lives and be there myself in Afhganistan. bin Laden was our primary goal after Sept 11th. The people who lived in the Gulf Coast should have been our primary goal after Hurricane Katrina, in the United States.

Eyan, last post, are you going to meet me at the Vietnam Memorial? Inquiring minds want to know.

Ryan, I don't think all of the dead Lebanese would agree that Israel just attacked Hezbollah. Even if Hezbollah fighters had been the only ones killed, they were in Lebanese territory and they won't have to replace all of the bridges, factories, roads and port facilities that Israel destroyed. I am not debating whether or not Israel had the right, I am only saying what they did. Formality or not, Israel and the Palestinian Authority were talking until Hamas won the elections that Ms. Rice and "Duh-bya" pushed for. Part of the credibility gap in the middle east is because we pushed for elections for the Palestinians and the Syrian army-free Lebanese and they didn't turn out the way we wanted so we didn't recognize the winners as legitimate. As far as Iran and North Korea go, do you think they are developing nuclear weapons for no reason at all? North Korea is led by a paranoid leader who thinks everyone is out to get him. Is it your idea to feed his paranoia instead of trying to control his behavior with the drugs of diplomacy? We have troops in Pakistan, Afgahnistan, Iraq and Kuwait. Iran is bounded on three sides by our troops or governments friendly to us. Don't they have the right to protect themselves or are we the only people in the world allowed this luxury? They could never win in a conventional war, nor could they win a nuclear war, however, they could develop their own deterrance. We and the Soviets did it for 50 years and it worked pretty damn well. I think you are a reasonable intelligent person but as a philosopher once said, "intelligence is only valuable when used to question available knowledge." Proselytizing the conservative credo has become a sort of religion to people. It doesn't take brains do spew out the ideas of others; it does to formulate those of your own. I take nothing anyone says to me as gospel unless I investigate it myself, no matter how well it is packaged. Although you articulate your points very well, I've heard it all before.

President Bush said on Wednesday he was weighing a short-term increase in U.S. troops in Iraq and believed that the United States should expand its Army and Marine Corps in the long term. Now where and from whom did he get these recommendations for IRAQ? Laura? The TOOTH FAIRY? He did not get them from Colin Powell, The Iraq Study Group, Bob Gates, The Joint Chiefs, Rummy or any other prominent source. I GOT IT! He got it from the "SHOOTER", VP CHENEY who is an EXPERT on the Military and execution of gorrilla warfare.

Ryan, can you meet with me at the Vietnam Memorial in D.C. Yes, or no.Yeah or ney?Simple question. One answer.

The most horribly frightening thing about George Bush is that he believes he is right. The man is an idiot and he has forgotten who he works for.

Ryan, I find your arguments childish at best, more like infuriating, truth be told.You want to believe Big daddy Bush is all powerful and he will somehow MAKE this turn out OK, and God in heaven OKs all the killing and will make sure America triumphs, and in the long run, like 50 years, the invasion of Iraq and Bush's handling of the war will prove to be precsient, yeah, Daddy, make it so. Buddy, take a snort of reality...

I just wanted to say "thanks" to everybody that participated in the discussion today. There were many good points brought up and I found it to be very productive. It caused me to take some time and re-examine what I believe and why I believe it and that is what good discussions can do. So, thanks again.

Desmond--I did know John Edwards is planning to announce his candidacy in the Lower 9th, but didn't know it would be on the 28th, so thanks for letting me know the date. That's good news. I also think it would be an excellent idea for Barack Obama to throw his hat in the ring in New Orleans--or to at least visit that city, but he needs to do it soon--otherwise, with New Orleans' luck and the media's short attention span, he'll go there when the media has been hit by "Obama fatigue" and moved on. I didn't really think Bush would go to New Orleans--that was just wishful thinking. Bush would only want to go to places where he can have attractive, flattering photo-ops that would make his Administration look good and advance his political objectives such as getting GOP members elected in 2008--and New Orleans' Lower 9th wouldn't be one of them. And Bush, to put it bluntly, doesn't give a damn about Louisiana or about all of her people who lost everything in the storm. In spite of her providing oil and natural gas and giving far more to America than she has taken, Louisiana is just too small, poor, and politically-weak a state to matter much in Bush's scheme of things. Had Prince Jeb's relatively-affluent, populous, politically-powerful fiefdom in Florida instead had one of her major cities hit by Katrina, you can bet King George would have been far more attentive right after it happened. For example, Bush certainly wouldn't have flown off to California to strum his show-biz buddy's guitar and taken over a week just to find the time to fly over and look down on the place. Red tape would have instantly been cut so aid would have reached those who needed it, so they'd be actively in the process of rebuilding. And he'd still be focused on Florida's recovery over a year after the storm. But since it was Louisiana, regarding which he has been far less generous--I've the impression that Bush is acting like the passive-aggressive, neglectful/abusive husband of a seriously-injured woman who's in a lot of pain. He has sweet-talked Louisiana--saying that America would "do what it takes" and "stay as long as it takes" to bring New Orleans back, and that he wants a "Louisiana that's vibrant," and in effect that he's always had a soft spot in his heart for Louisiana. But his inaction has spoken louder than words. He has thrown her crumbs without doing anything meaningful that would help her recover. As a consequence, Louisiana is being allowed to slide down the tubes and beautiful, historic New Orleans is slowly dying. There have been some small signs of progress such as the re-opening of the popular St. Charles streetcar line, and a small amount of rebuilding has been going on. But over 88,000 people have been waiting on rebuilding grants and there has been a "brain drain" of young professionals from the city due to lack of business. When Bush did make his rare visits to New Orleans, he stuck to a carefully-managed itinerary of areas including the French Quarter which are on higher ground and came through Katrina relatively unscathed, or, as New Orleanians like to call them, "The Isle of Denial." For had he travelled outside this area, he would have seen a city in worse condition than Baghdad. So Bush stayed in the "Isle of Denial" for a reason--so only pretty pictures would be shown of his trips to New Orleans to support the Bush Administrations' Big Lie by fooling the American public into thinking New Orleans was back to normal when actually nothing is further from the truth.

Desmond - If I go to Washington D.C. I would love to meet you at the Vietnam Memorial. I have always wanted to go but haven't really had the time or money to do it. When they are older I would love to take my kids. So, the answer is, yes, when I go to D.C. I would love to meet you there.

Ryan, opinions and beliefs are very different. Opinions should change every time new information which becomes available indicates a change is necessary. Beliefs, however, take some time to change because they are the core of who we are as human beings. I have been a skeptic from the moment I saw my grandmother wrapping a present and putting it under the Christmas tree with a "From Santa" label. My skepticism comes from my heart and my life experience has told me when I don't listen to my heart and my head in unison, I get in trouble. I went into the Army against my heart's advice and wound up in Vietnam; I went against my head's advice and wound up married to the wrong woman. What I am trying to say is words are just words; anyone can say them. When you speak from your head and your heart at the same time and the words that come out are yours, to me, that is an opinion based on a belief and not an exercise in dogmatic certainty. I hope you have a Merry Christmas and the New Year brings you happiness.

Ryan..Thanks for hanging in there and keeping the discussion going. It was an interesting excerise. I may not often agree with you, but I would fight for your right to express your views. I am sure most, if not all, who participated in this discourse would do the same. I hope you have realized many of the bloggers here are Ind not Dem or Rep, the caustic/sarcastic comments of the Inds are evidence of just how far off the path our leadership has fallen. It cracks me up when those who are more left OR more right of the center call an Ind a conservative or liberal, when in fact they are probably a bit of both and a whole lot of neither! Beware of swallowing all of anyones agenda, it'll poison you.

Amy - I'm sorry that you find my arguments childish and infuriating. I don't consider my arguments childish but I can see how they would be infuriating to someone with your viewpoint. Just as I sometimes find posts on here rather infuriating. That is the joy of thoughtful discussion. I hope that you were infuriated enough to look into the arugment more to drum up more information to sput the debate. That is what good debate is. Contrary to your supposition that I "believe Big daddy Bush is all powerful and he will somehow MAKE this turn out OK, and God in heaven OKs all the killing and will make sure America triumphs, and in the long run, like 50 years, the invasion of Iraq and Bush's handling of the war will prove to be precsient", I don't believe Pres. Bush is all powerful. Also, I think that he can have a great influence as to how this turns out but he, by far, is not the only influence. I don't know whether "God in heaven OKs all the killing and will make sure America triumphs". I hope that America and freedom triumph but there is no guaruntee. I also hope that in 50 years we can look back, like we have been able to do with Japan and Europe, and say it was the right thing to do to defend freedom and to help cultivate a new freedom in the Middle East that had previously not been experienced by many.

Robert - Well put. I must say I agree with everything you posted. Your little story about your grandma made me chuckle. I, too, wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Owen, I agree. I have been an Independent for years in my thinking and voting but, now, I remain so only in my thinking. Hopefully, the Republican Party can regain the wisdom it has lost over the past six years and I can once again vote for one of their viable candidates. I really dislike political correctness as well as right-wing religious fundamentalism. They both require the certainty of knowing there are absolute truths and I don't believe there are. Any person with half a brain can believe in a dogma. Intelligence is being able to see both sides and come up with your own opinion. Blind obedience IS the poison you speak of.

good talks folks as always i enjoyed it. ryan just so ya know im a ex-marine and viet vet an while i wholeheartedly disagree with your politics i respect your right to your opinion. if there were a political party that catered to the center i would hope on in a nanosecond as any radical is just that radical(defined as that which hurts the most people while doing the least amount of good) and is rarely of any use other than as a learning experience on what not to do. happy winter solstice.

Mikeeg - Well thanks Mike. Thank you for serving our country and defending freedom. Have a great Christmas and a happy New Year!

You know what? I don't have any family currently serving in the military, I live in a safe and secure place, I have good health and a satisfying life, why do I bother careing about politics? I'm done with getting angry, it does absolutely no good, I'll let you guys continue your discussions without me...have fun.

Winning or losing is the wrong way to look at the Iraq war. These words imply that a loser will capitulate to their adversary once they have been beaten so badly that they can no longer go on. In this case there are multiple adversaries, of which we are one. Defining victory or defeat is difficult. What we can discuss however is how GWB and his staff convolved the war on terror with the invasion of Iraq and utilized the public's 9/11 driven sympathy into acceptance on blind faith of what were actually lies about the miltary status of Iraq. For then placing our citizens in harm's way based on these lies, GWB can be impeached, as well as Cheney and others - this I believe is constitutionally valid - please correct me if I am wrong. The problem however is that it would be far better if W would simply acquiesce to the current public preference for a logical and sane end to the Iraq war, and to try to begin to solve the entire middle east problem as well. But W seems to be raising the stakes (after all he has nothing to lose politically); he wants to escalate the violence against whom is not clear and to employ more of our troops as policeman, a job they are not designed to do. It may be then that we are on a collision course with a general impeachment of the upper echelons of this administration. No American in his or her right mind sides with Bin Laden and other terrorists but we as a free and responsible nation can not let a rogue president put the world in further peril by embarking on a misguided military action. I truly hope our president sees the light and does the right thing.

"...Pass the Lord and Praise the Ammunition!"

Hey - Apologists - THE POINT IS...GWB started a disasterous war that has done nothing but 1) drain resources 2) weakened the Constitution for questionable reasons 3) divided the country 4) increased the threat of terrorism while ignoring home safety. That's the point - that and Bush can't seem to assimilate a fact, which is also what you have to be like in order to support that national disgrace. Then some moron who calls himself a red white and blue patriot says some damnable thing like: "I don't care about your civil rights" - you people are the Bush faithful and you're all un American at best, psychotic at worse. Bye Amy - I'm having a great time pointing out why some so-called patriots are really fascist shills.

Amy, i know how you feel. I to was getting frustrated with politics. It can definetely get a person worked up. But hang in there. It does not matter where you come from, you have a right to your opinion. I have learned by posting and reading responses, it makes a person think about who you are and what your positions are. You can not do that if everyone agrees. I have the upmost respect for anyone who posts against the prevailing wind. That is why I keep telling Ryan to hang in there. His reponses creates the most discussion, and he does read and respond. This is what is great with america. Everybody has an opinion, but not everyone has to agree. Back in 2002, I was against the war and when I would post back then I would get hammered like Ryan does today. People had very strong opinions on the Iraq war before it started. I was trying to tell everyone to seperate the Iraq war from the war on terrorism. I got absolutely lit up by some bloggers as unpatriotic or terrorist sympathiser.I stuck to my guns and kept debating and slowly the worm turned. But the end result is now people are wiser and more jaded about what lead up to the Iraq war. Politics can be frustrating, but the public seems to want to debate and discuss issues now. I hated it when it was my way or the highway attitude of the last 6 years. Remember Hitler coined this phrase originally. Have a great day to all bloggers and mikeeg: Semper Fi dude 1978-1982. I used to sit on the edge of the bed as Viet vets would tell us stories of Vietnam while I was in. .

Robert, I agree, blind disobedience is poison. How much killing and persecution thoughout human history has been the result of blind obedience? The leaders of these tragedies were successful in convincing their followers by professing to possess the only 'Truth', they were:'Righteous', 'Superior', 'Blessed', 'Destined', ect. There was no gray area, you are either with us or against us. The most of these despots professed to talk to God. (Excl Stalin, et al) They did not make mistakes, any setback - "someone else's fault". They assaulted their 'subjects' rights, changed or made laws to facilitate their reign. Opposition was quashed, dissent eliminated. The use of war to unite and distract the populace was requisite. Slogans proclaiming themselves as liberators, spreading 'freedom' and or 'save souls' were commonly used in their conquests. Surely there are no parallels to recent history?? Just a little something to ponder......

Loosing in Iraq??? Could someone explain to me exactly what Iraqi Military is driving us out of Iraq? What Iraqi leader is executing large scale military victories against American soldiers? That's right, NONE!!! We are victorious in Iraq, thank God!!! Cleaning up has always been messy, especially with people who are slaves to living in their own mess. Pray that reasonable, just, objective, committed Iraqi men and women stand up for freedom, justice and democracy and defy the evil militant Islamists from Syria and Iran. Pray!

Hey Steve, I have read some of your posts and just wanted to say Hi and that I am originally from Waterloo. Went to Blessed Sacrement (BS:)Castle Hill and then Edison before moving to Omaha in 1976. Being a fellow Iowegian I can totally relate to your comments about Minnesotans, etc. My brother used to live there and he became a traitor when he began telling those lame Iowa jokes. Happy Holidays! GO HUSKERS!!

Newsweek has publlished an article (available on the MSNBC website) that basically says the economy is booming in Iraq. Of course, they only mentioned two companies and openly admit that there are major problems with kidnapping, general terrorism/factional warfare and the problem of using US money that's been "stolen". They also mention the underground economy that is allegedly booming. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16241340/site/newsweek/) My answer to this is that the economy is not booming, especially in Baghdad, as there is almost infrastructure that's been successfully rebuilt with or without our money. Sure, we've rebuilt some schools and the like. After 1989, we could have said the same thing about the former USSR, when Russia was seen to be growing substantially. However, they to, had/have a substantial underground, illegal underground economy. Heck, even our own US illegal economy is huge, mostly in the use of illegal drugs, prostitution and anything else that is repulsive to a taxable, free society. So, how much longer do we have to pay (in both US and innocent Iraqi lives), money and respect) for our leader's mistakes and lies in putting the US in that unholy venture? The country will not fall apart with our departure if it truly has a strong, booming economy. Let the Iraqis be self-determinant. One needs to read Thomas L. Friedman's latest "Mideast Rules to Live By" to get a more realistic opinion of what it takes to make Iraq successful.

OOPS!! MY Previous Blog SHOULD say "Robert, I agree, blind OBEDIENCE is poison." .....It says 'disObedience', sorry, brain malfunction....I'll do better the next time..duh!

Sorry, I spelled losing incorrectly.

"We are victorious in Iraq, thank God!!!" Thank God for a psycho chicken president, because if that's winning I don't want to see losing.

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