Instead of being sick of all the candidates by November of 2008, we'll be sick of all of them by November of 2007.

I read this morning where the House wants to attach a rider to the military spending request which would force Bush to ask for a waiver if the troops he sends are not battle ready by Pentagon standards. This is intended to "embarass" the President to the American public. To tell the truth, I don't see how this is going to work. The President seems impervious to embarassment. Every thing he has done has turned out to be an embarassment but he keeps right on doing whatever he wishes despite his low poll numbers here at home and the ridicule and fear he has received on the world stage. Embrass the President? That's like asking Paris Hilton to apologize for spending her family's money on partying.

Steve, don't you mean April 2007?

Robert - it takes a conscience to be embarrassed. Ask Nero or Caligula how often he was embarrassed.

Kal. I'm sick of them already. I've turned to watching 'Ed, Edd, and Eddie' with the kids.

I'm actually OK with the the long build up to the Presidential election. The next election will be about more than just choosing a new captain, it will be a long pow wow for the nation itself, to re-group and get united. It's clear that sacrifices are going to be required of all of us in the years ahead and we need to face reality, together. Its clear to me, also, that we can't just pick a new guy and then go back to watching American Idol. The days of hoping a new President means a new beginning are over.

Dems have proven quite adept at postponing since taking control of congress. It must be terribly difficult to move forward when you have no effective plan with which to move forward. By the way, when does the open door policy and bipartisan spirit Pelosi promised take effect? Another observation: One thing I found rather telling about libs was an interview with Byron York, White House correspondent for Nat'l Review. Seems Obama's recent rise in the polls and the "Geffen incident" are "allowing" those on the left to "speak more freely" about their feelings in regards to Hillary's campaign. Now they are suddenly allowed to talk openly about her electability and other perceived problems with her candidacy. See, this is one of the major problems with the left, no one feels comfortable with saying what they feel until someone else first sticks their neck out. "Gosh, if I say what I feel I might say something wrong, offend someone, or open myself to criticism, so I'll just keep my mouth shut until someone else has the courage to say it first." Once that first person speaks out, then comes the barrage. We see it here and on other blogs everyday. Libs will scream unfounded opinions and downright lies from the rooftops as long as they feel it will hurt the right and benefit the left, but not before someone else says what they want to say. When it comes to speaking out about their own we see something entirely different. I can see why. Look at the vitriol directed at Geffen by the the Clinton camp after his comments last week. The left has an honesty problem. That is the main reason I could never align myself with them. The right is nearly as bad, but at least there are some on that side of the aisle who speak out of conviction. America needs a strong 3rd party now. If not, turn out the lights, the party's over. The 2 major parties are accomplishing nothing but a slow and certain death for our nation.

Robert Catalano and Steve Turner: great morning posts! Robert, like Paris Hilton whose name is more famous than her fortune is actually large, comparatively speaking, GWB is a brand name without a useful product. Thus there are no sales and no satisfied customers but the medicine show goes on. Steve: "Ed, Edd and Eddie" are great, but their 'boys gone wild' humor is a tad too close to reality for me. Check out the 'Urban Rangers' episode and see if you don't see W and Karl in there somewhere. Rock on.

Darren: well said. Will fall on deaf liberal ears, but well said, anyway

Mark. I call them "AD, ADD, and ADHD." and I call the girls "Darfur, Kabul, and Hanoi Hilton". Lately, I've taken to carrying crayons around town and drawing faces on the odd board, laying in the alley.

Steve, I totally get the crayons. But I forget why.

Gosh, Steve, you scared us there for a moment. But now that we know you are some unemployed leftist drifter, your comments including "Lately, I've taken to carrying crayons around town and drawing faces on the odd board, laying in the alley" gives added value to your incessant comments on each and every blog day after day after day...Enjoy the WIC cheese, dude.

"The 2 major parties are accomplishing nothing but a slow and certain death for our nation. " We finally agree.

Darren at this point no effective plan looks real good compared to the failed policies of the good replublicans.

Robert, I have given lots of thought to the fact that Bush appears to have no embarrassment gene. The best explanation I've come up with is this: Bush, like Osama and others you can think of, is not "playing" to the American public, i.e., were not who he is trying to impress. Osama is not tormenting himself over what we are thinking about him. Kevin Phillips, in his book "Wealth and Democracy. A Political History of the American Rich". Goes into this point early in the book. He mentioned that someone like Dick Cheney doesn't consider a person who earns less than $300,000 a year quite a full fledged human - not someone he needs bother trifling with. Still less would he trouble himself with the fact that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died because of something he and a couple of others set off. To embarrass a person like this, you would have to make him look bad in front of his target audience, the extremely wealthy. So far, I have heard absolutely nothing from any of the "people who matter" concerning how they feel BushCo has made a really big mess. Because in their eyes, he hasn't. Nothing from the CEO of Halliburton, Boeing, Northrop Aviation, Raytheon, GE, Exxon or any big outfit you can name has criticized the Bush Administration. The day you start hearing any of these people acting uncomfortable with what Bush has done, you will start seeing an embarrassed president. What tends to make him look bad in their eyes will cause him embarrassment. If you or I had been making barrels of thousand dollar bills off his "incompetence" and the blood of the troops, we may wish to stay in the background and not say or do anything to rock the boat. The president, this one more than any other I can think of, is working for "the only game in town" and that's not us. So, what puzzles me more than this is how a segment of working class people can support such a human. What causes an ordinary person to be a Republican, working against his own best interest? That's the question. I've been intending to post an article like this for a while, so what you posted today reminded me of it.

Darren Pope SC. you don't have to worry about postponing anything as you now have Joe "LIE"--BER--MAN to cover the Republican behind. How in the world do you and others clamor for or against change that are not happening instantly. After all for nearly 14 years the Democrats have been shut out of anything, does the "energy policy jug you mind" does the "Judy Miller story of the New York Times about legitimizing the war on Iraq as Saddam had stockpiles of WMDs" and he was a imminate threat" One lie after another have unfolded since this began 1,466 days ago with "SHOCK & AWE" and now 1,419 days after "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" with now 3,166 dead military, 23,766 wounded and of that total 10,085 will never have a peaceful life. Why did it take Lou Dobbs and CNN to promote the building of the "INTRIPD CENTER" with private money raised from people of all walks of life and no government money. What a terrible loss we have sustained only to get a foot hold in the Middle East. We here in New England have buried our share of Military, all Military whether they be "Citizen Soldiers or regular vollunteer Soldiers." Saudi Arabia didn't want our military there and easy picking was the plumb of Iraq. Is it Worth just to have a base in a country that doesn't want the USA military?

You know that I find particularly distasteful? The tendency of conservatives, Republicans, elephant-lovers, whatever else you want to call them to lump "liberals" together. What exactly is a liberal? All I see are liberals do this and liberals do that. Do they really? I'm a liberal and I don't do anything that such people accuse liberals of doing. The point - generalizations make you look stupid. And fyi - if you think waiting until someone else has opened a can of worms before you start feasting on said worms is a liberal practice only, let me welcome you to Fantasy Island.

Hopefully, the long campaign will get the people to listen and see what the candidates stand for before voting. If people has actually paid attention, I'm sure we wouldn't have had to endure 8 years of W. Oh Well, I can hope!!

It could also be Fear Factor....

What I find so interesting about Darren Pope's comments is the fact that most 'Liberals' point out specific problems that are happening with respect to actual facts that can be checked, such as the failed policies of the president in Iraq, the lies told to start the war, the ways that the lack of appropriate planning heightened the dangers to our troops there, and the huge waste through outright fraud and theft of nearly half a trillion dollars of our tax money amongst other ills perpetrated upon this Nation. The Republican posters instead tend to bash the people that post these things, denouncing anyone that 'Dares to second guess the President' or the republican led congress of recent years over these same facts. In the first case, the liberals tend to state facts that can be checked with only a little research, tinged with their anger at the unjustness of actions taken (or not taken) in their name as Americans. In the second the Republicans tend to be extremely vitriolic and spout outright hatred towards the "Liberals" without facts to back them up, or as is often the case, the distorted "facts" given in the speaking points ok'd by the republican party's handlers. This is not to say that all posters fall into these groups, but these Are the basic, overall ways that these groups of posters tend to act. I myself prefer to work with facts rather than hatred but at the same time I AM angered at the extreme levels of hypocracy, deceit, and extreme incompetence shown by the present administration. The fact that so many conservatives defend them by spouting hatred at those people that are trying to bring actual Justice to bear against the administration astounds me since they are wasting their energies against the very people that are trying to defend them against the corruption so blatantly evident within the administration. What are they trying to prove, that fear, hatred and ideology trump the true American way of Truth, Justice and the Freedoms of speech and the ways we live that we enjoy (or are supposed to) under our Constitutionally guaranteed rights?? Are we supposed to roll over and play dead when a criminal segment of our population try to change the way that our country is governed by the installation of right wing activist judges, obscenely and criminally expanded executive powers, and the extreme politicization of the so called Justice Department that ignores or distorts the meaning of the Constitution and protects those who commit treason while firing those who are successfully prosecuting, for fraud and taking bribes to influence legislation, those individuals that have been donating money to their party's candidate's coffers?? I think not!! So who are these people that are throwing such hatred at the folks that are trying to protect the Nation as a whole protecting The Crooks?? Or are they defending their own egos after having found out that they made bad choices and now are throwing their anger at those that exposed the crookedness?? Either way, I think they need to reasess the way that they go about it; this nation does not need more hate and divisiveness, we need true healing and actual dialogue in order to right the wrongs perpetrated upon this great Nation of ours by those that have greivously damaged it with their short sighted striving for personal gain and profit. In the battle of fact vs. hate, fact Has to win or we are doomed as a Nation.

First, let me just say that I firmly believe ALL politicians are dishonest to some degree (so are all other humans for that matter – even if politicians excel at dishonesty). The question isn't IF they are dishonest, it's only HOW DISHONEST are they. But to think that the recent set of lawmakers on the left somehow have a bigger honesty problem than those on the right is mind-boggling. Let’s look at recent history: Rep Randy "Duke" Cunningham pleaded guilty to federal charges of conspiracy to commit bribery, mail fraud, wire fraud, and tax evasion; Rep Bob Ney, pleaded guilty to a charge of conspiracy to defraud the United States and to a charge of falsifying financial disclosure forms; Rep Mark Foley, resigned from Congress and checked into rehab after hitting on minor children (he would've been arrested had Dateline's To Catch A Predator would've gotten to him first) -- and by the way, if the House leadership didn't directly cover up Foley's actions, they certainly didn't fulfill their moral and legal obligations to protect the MINOR CHILDREN that Foley was preying on; Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who had direct connections to many high-powered Republican law makers and staff (i.e. Karl Rove) convicted of 5 criminal felony counts in 2 separate federal courts, and there are still massive probes of numerous lawmakers and staff members related to Jack Abramoff; Tony Rudy, former deputy chief of staff to Rep Tom DeLay pled guilty to conspiracy; Michael Scanlon, former press secretary for Rep Tom DeLay, pled guilty to conspiring to bribe a member of Congress and other public officials; Neil Volz, former chief of staff for Rep Bob Ney pled guilty to conspiracy and wire fraud; David Safavian, former Administrator for Federal Procurement Policy, Office of Management and Budget, Executive Office of the President (appointed by Bush himself), convicted on 4 counts of lying and obstructing justice; Rep Tom DeLay, indicted on criminal charges of violating election law, conspiracy and money laundering; Scooter Libby is currently awaiting the jury verdict on felony counts of obstructing justice, making false statements, and perjury -- and all of that is just things that involved actual crimes that resulted in actual convictions or are currently in the court system. Duke Cunningham, Bob Ney, Tony Rudy, Jack Abramoff, Tony Rudy, Michael Scanlon, Neil Volz and David Safavian are all currently in prison serving time because of their dishonesty. Scooter Libby and Karl Rove had both previously claimed that they had nothing to do with leaking the name of Valerie Plame to the press, which we know now was blatantly a lie as they were both involved up to their necks along with Richard Armitage. I personally believe that Bush and Cheney have repeatedly flat out lied, but what is not a matter of opinion is that they have been flat out wrong on several major issues concerning Iraq (WMD, the final throes of the insurgency, etc, etc, etc, etc) that make them untrustworthy (even if it is only for their lack of reliability) at best and liars (possibly criminals) at worst. If all of that isn't an honesty problem, I don't know what is.

B. Honest - I think you put it very well and I agree with you completely. What's funny is that, in my post (which I made before your post was shown online) I went straight for the specific facts that you mentioned. However, I think we are getting at the same underlying issue. Thanks for summing it up so well.

Sometimes I'm almost too thick to notice. Elizabeth, Mark, and Zuma, what a treasure you are. I'm hooked on Politics and sometimes it makes me so mad, I have to go down to the river and skip rocks till I cool off. You folks have to live with these Polibozos, we keep harping about, organize their D.C.Dog Show for us in print form, and give us something to begin with. No mean feat in a town FUll of Dog Shows. We can turn off the PC and walk away. You're in it for the long haul. We don't thank you enough for your refereeing and editing (you've kept me from sticking more feet in my mouth than I have feet...or mouth, thanx.) so I'm doing it now, for all of us, every self-indulgent self-absorbed self-centered self-gratitified egomaniacally peurile one of us. EMH...Thanks!(No need to thank us for our thanks, we know how moved you must be.)

M-In Texas, I would like to thank you on two counts: first for your kind words towards my post, and second for bringing up a good showing of pertinent Facts, ones that are bold and undeniable in the way that they have been proven in a court of Law. I am glad that you Did make such a timely post of these facts since were I to have included them in my post it would have served only to muddy up the issue that I felt needed to be shown. It also, by the way, helps to prove my point when this post is contrasted against, for example, (with apologies for singling out any one person) jtb's type of post, which is generally devoid of facts or relevant issue and full of vitriol, hatred and loathing towards any sort of 'Liberal'. I Also agree with Steve Turner in his thanking Elizabeth, Mark and Zuma for taking on this daunting and thankless task of reporting on the political vagaries and foibles of those that (at least claim to or want to) represent our Nation's peoples and govern them. Thank You for your hard and enduring work!!

I second Steve's kudos. Thanks for the opportunity to vent!

B Honest Portland Oregon. What a beautiful state Oregon is I was born in Portland. I love to go back and ski Mt. Bachelor & Mt Hood, my family used to have a summer home in Sunriver. Now on to your post (February 28, 2007 4:34 PM) I guess it's all relevant. I'm a Conservative I don't think what the Reps are doing is fear mongering, I don't live my life in fear I'm just aware that we face a real and dangerous threat to our way of life 9-11 cemented that for me. I admit this war has been handled poorly from the outset I think most rational people would do the same. I'm big on facts as I’m sure you’re aware if you've followed any of my prior posts on First Read. So I have to ask you if you can back up a few things, being that the overriding theme on your post was "facts". Please tell me where I can go to get the "factual" information on the following statements you made: ===you said “Justice Department that ignores or distorts the meaning of the Constitution and protects those who commit treason while firing those who are successfully prosecuting, for fraud and taking bribes to influence legislation, those individuals that have been donating money to their party's candidate's coffers?”===I ask ---Where do I find that in "factual" information, who in the Justice Department lied and about what? Who’s committing fraud and taking brides? What legislation has been influenced and how did it tie into monies being donated into campaign coffers? Who’s coffers got filled? ...next===You said “So who are these people that are throwing such hatred at the folks that are trying to protect the Nation as a whole protecting The Crooks?’=== I ask”--Who are the crooks and if you can identify them an you back up that statement with "facts"===Finally –You said "Republicans tend to be extremely vitriolic and spout outright hatred towards the "Liberals"=== My response:--I think this is more how you feel than a fact it can't be proven I could show you hundreds of posts just on First Read about how much hate is spewed by liberals directed at our President who is Republican. I think (and this is not a fact merely an opinion much like your entire post) that Reps and Conservatives are offended by the hatred they see from the Libs and responding accordingly. I'm very interested to see if you can back up your post by giving us actual facts and not opinions. BTW if you cannot you will prove me right (get it right) yet again that Libs argue on emotion and feelings not the actual facts of what's really going on in the world.

Steve (from your post at 28, 2007 10:02 PM) You are right. Long overdue thanks, to the gang at First Read!

Mike PAV--- I think you are part of the problem here. Your post today @10:04 doesn't seem too bad, but most of your posts has a lot of insults and name calling.

Sue from Seattle. "I think you are part of the problem here." Of course you do I wouldn't expect anything less from you Sue. I'm sure it has to do with me asking yet again for one of your fellow libs to back up their rethoric with facts, something I don't think you've ever been able to do when we get into a debate". Actually you almost did but it turned out to be one of your fellow libs. It was an inadvertant mistake on your part but boy was that funny. The problem I have with B Honest is that he/she says that libs are the ones who back up their statements with facts. Nothing could be further from the truth (at least for the majority of liberal posters on this blog) So I was simply asking for B Honest to "be honest" and admit you can't back up all of your statements or give us the Facts to back them up.

Sue as to name calling and insults? I have been known to do that, 9 times out of 10 it's in resonse to someone insulting or name calling my beliefs, our Predsident or me. I have called a lot of people here "Libs" or "Liberals" so if that's what you're reffering to I can understand why that would be upsetting.

Mike PAV: you question the line "Republicans tend to be extremely vitriolic and spout outright hatred towards the liberals" answer: see Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Fox News, William Kristol. "Reps and Conservatives are offended by the hatred they see from the Libs" my answer: Liberals are offended by Republicans jamming Dem party phone lines on election day (NH story you might have missed, the Republican who went to jail for this was in contact with Karl Rove several times that day. And then Rove hosted a party to raise money for his defense. Can you imagine if the office of a Dem President raised money for a Dem who attacked the integrety of the election process?)If you read The Emerald City, about post Iraq re-construction, you will see that job applicants were asked whether they voted for Kerry or Bush and their opinion on Roe vs Wade, as a determinant of whether they were hired. Also, seven US Attorneys have been asked to resign for political, not performance, issues by the Bush admin, including the woman who prosecuted Duke Cunnigham and a Republican prosecuter who didn't move fast enough on a Democratic bribery case. These are just a few examples of why I regard Republicans as the enemy. Of course, there is invading Iraq under false pretenses, tapping phones without court approval, keeping prisoners without due representation, sending prisoners to other countries to be tortured, outting a CIA agent to get back at her husband, a war critic (no big deal to Republicans, I know, which is in itself scary.)My Dad was a Republican and a WWII vet, but I don't think he would recognize the Republican party of 2007.

Mike PAV, for the facts of the people that have not only been accused, but have been CONVICTED of bribing public officials and taking bribes as well are quite well posted by M-In Texas, that is a matter of public record. The protecting of Karl Rove and Cheney over the outing of Valerie Plame, which is an extreme offense against the Nations Interests as it Deliberately outed someone who was well known by those individuals to have been an undercover CIA officer is just ONE of the treasonous activities not prosecuted by the Justice department, along with the entire raft of lies that led to the needless and catastophically inept handling of the subsequent war in Iraq. The torture and also the illegal phone tapping programs, which are quite illegal and go against Constitutionally guaranteed rights as well are crimes that have not been prosecuted, in fact, have been protected and condoned by the head of the Justice Dept, Mr. Gonzales himself. It is also a matter of public record, being investigated by Congress even now, that at least 7 of the federal prosecutors have been fired, the same ones that have been so instrumental in finding the intense levels of corruption in the ranks of the Republicans in Congress and which are detailed in M-In Texas's post. From all appearances they have been fired specifically for being TOO good at their jobs and have been replaced, at the Bush Administration's orders, with politically connected hacks with little or no investigative background or at best, with heavy connections to the Federalist Society, which advocates the overthrow of the US Constitution through the appointment of activist judges and increased executive powers, derived through wartime expansion of the same. The folks, such as yourself, that are contesting posts such as mine are the ones that are therefore in effect, trying to protect those that stand accused of and have in fact been convicted of the crimes of bribery and influencing of legislation (again, as shown in M-In Texas' post, all of which is directly factual). You also state that there is much hatred directed at the president, I think that you are mis-equating anger at his failed policies and criminal infringement of the Constitution, rightful anger I minght add, as hatred. There is a big difference at being angry at persons and policies that directly hurt our Nation and it's standing in the world at large and hatred of an individual or party. While I will not dispute that there is indeed some hatred posed towards Bush and his administration, for the most part I see individuals angry about specific facts, and posting their objections to them, sometimes in colorful language, but it is a far cry from what I see coming from the extreme right when they subject the Posters in this blog to such name calling and outright belittlement for their being angry and pointing out these facts, which can almost always be clearly pointed to as Being fact and not just opinion. Anger and pointing out facts that have angered one are a far far cry from insulting and namecalling those that have the bravery to point out what is going wrong in our government. Being a democracy demands that we, the People, stand up and make a point of detailing what is not right in our government, either it's actions, inactions, policies, improprieties of our public servants (which the president happens to be, not an untoucheable king) and/or criminal activities that any segment of our government or public servants happen to commit, against our Constitution or duly created laws. It is our DUTY to stand up and protest when our government strays from it's proper role of protecting and nurturing the PEOPLE of this Nation. Hateful and vitriolic name calling and insultinjg those who are patriotic enough to stand up and work to protect our rights, for all of us, including the insulters and namecallers, is truly against what this Nation, the United States of America, is really about. That being said, I will still strive to protect your ABILITY to be able to say what you like, however, I cannot protect you from what others may say or think about WHAT you say, so choose carefully; will you be reasonable and stick to facts, like an adult, and work towards a reasonable solution, even if you are angered, or will you resort to insults and name calling like a school playground bully and cause people to stop listening to what you say??

Amy B Portland ME not OR. If you now me by my posts you know that I like to stay current from a lot of different outlets when it comes to politics. Let's see where do I start... First I have read the Emerald City and while the book does contain some facts it was written by a far left Washington ComPost journalist from San Francisco, with an agenda, you only have to read the book to see how he tried to make a mockery of our soldiers, our occupation, and everyone else associated with the Iraq war. He goes on in detail about how uncomfortable it was for Muslims working in the cafeteria to be around pork, but fails to mention that they got the job knowing full well they'd be serving American cuisine. He made it sound like our soldiers were a bunch of homegrown idiots that didn't have a clue. It's nice that you like to read books Amy but that's one man's agenda driven perspective. I seriously doubt you've read, “Home of the Brave” by Casper Weinberger it’s actually a book about our soldiers stories from over in Iraq it supports them and puts to bed a lot of the myths I think you hold true. If you truly believe in everything Rajiv wrote in the Emerald City then I have to ask why aren't you denouncing our troops yet? Because any one who would align themselves with the views Rajiv has may as well….The phone scandal in NH I applaud you for producing a fact You are right that did happen. But what about the Milwaukie Democratic party going out pre dawn on election day in ’04 and slashing the tires of nearly 30 Republican vans that were to be used for a “get out the vote blitz”. That's the unfortunate state we're in with SOME of our politicians these days so what’s your point? Question…do you even watch Fox News? Because every time I watch it there is somebody from both sides of the isle expressing their views. I never see that on any of the other networks and I watch the other networks (a different news channel 5 nights a week). Finally=== you said “you question the line "Republicans tend to be extremely vitriolic and spout outright hatred towards the liberals” My fault if I wasn’t clear enough for you but I was refereeing to everyday Conservatives not the celebrity regime and for every one we have I can site one that does the same if not worse on the left. As to the rest of your points I’m not familiar enough with those situations but I will research them and if it’s a fact then I must say I’m quite impressed, and shame on them….I’ll respond later to what’s left LOL on your post.

Want to apologise to Huma for mis-spelling her name as Zuma: I followed Steve's spelling before I was properly awake and did not check it fer accuracy by checking the spelling at the top of the page as I should have, I am sorry for this inadvertant error!

B Honest Choose carefully you say? Please... give me a break. I've been posting on this blog for months and there is never a shortage of people to engage with. The only time people stop engaging is when I prove them wrong with facts that they cannot dispute. So basically you're telling me to go and read M IN Texas' posts and that everything he puts down is factual.=== And I see where you pat yourself on the back as being brave and standing up for the Nation. You will strive to protect my ability to speak? I already served my country and protected you and everyone else on this blog with my life so thanks, for the offer but I think I can take care of myself. BTW I'm in this debate with you not M In Texas' there are a lot of wholes in your last post (to me) and frankly I'm getting tired of going back and disproving all of the theories I encounter. FYI until you have a conviction in the valerie plame scandal you only have hearsay, not facts. So at the risk of sounding redundant can YOU please tell me who

Mike Pav--I have never called a person at this site a name, but you sure have. You ask ever one for facts but you very seldom post something that can be checked for fact. Your response is normally just rhetoric and insults and name calling. Now I'm really going to tick you off by saying that I think your President Bush is a liar, now can I prove it. NO. But I did notice that neither Bush nor Cheney would testify under oath at the 9/11 commission hearings. Now in my book if you won't testify under oath I have to assume that you are planning on lying. Keep up with the insults/name calling as it really helps your case.

I'm sick of liberals lumping all conservatives together. If you criticize Al Gore or Bill Clinton, then you must be a 100% supporter of George Bush. This isn't the case. As for vitriloic Republicans, I can name off just as many vitrioloic Democrats. Al Franken, Keith Olbermann, Whoopie Goldberg, Bill Maher, Jeanine Garofalo, etc. I could name many in the Democratic congress right now. They've called Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas "Uncle Toms" and worse. As for Republicans jamming phone lines, well, you must have missed the Democratic person whose kids went to jail for slashing the tires of Republicans or the guy Michelle Malkin profiled who goes around physically attacking people who are in the College Republicans. Back to the topic, Romney had to start ads because the media is already attacking him mercilessly using "Politics of Personal Destruction" to quote Hillary. They discuss Romney making a speech in front of the Ford building and did you know "Henry Ford was a Nazi Sympathizer?" As if that means Romney is. I guess that means al people who work at Ford are Nazi sympathizers as well. And of course, Romney's dad had more than one wife!! I don't recall anyone talking about any of the Kenndys' father, Joe who was a huge Nazi sympathizer. It never came up. Wonder why. And people wonder why Romney had to starts ads so soon. Seems pretty obvious to me.

Liberals, lefties, libs, just to name a few. I chose to refer to myself as a woman, an american citizen and someone with a point of view. I choose right over wrong, rather than blue over red. Something A LOT of people on this blog have lost sight of. Some people, of both parties, are so scared of the other side gaining control that they will fight tooth and nail, just because of party lines. Let's fight about what's right and what's wrong. Red or Blue, we still have THOUSANDS of our men and women in harms way and HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of them in hospitals or housing around the U.S. missing limbs or their sanity. I could care what party George Bush belongs to, HE HAS SCREWED UP EVERYTHING HE HAS TOUCHED. And that FACT needs to be rectified.

Neil, if you don't see the difference between a teenager slashing tires to help his Dad and grown men in positions of authority coordinating an attack on the Democrats' get out the vote campaign...you and I don't share the same values. And what if Clinton had a party to raise funds to defend that little vandal? Would that be OK with you? Have you ever listened to Al Franken? He's funny! And everything he says is based on facts. FACTS, not BS, or slander or hot air or hyperbole. And you kow what? Have you actually seen Michael Moore's movie Farenheit 911? Turns out Bush did use that tragedy to manipulate the US into invaing Iraq, as Moore alleges. I have no problem with Romney or his Mormonism. He seems like a pretty decent guy. Kinda what George Bush pretends to be, but isn't. From what I can see its not the "liberal media" giving Romney a hard time, its the small minded religious right-wing nuts who consider him a heretic. PS Jeanne Garafalo is a piece of work, I'll give you that.

Sue, I don't call people names directly First Read doesn't allow that. If you look at my posts I may call people out on their post and tell them what I think or what I think about their affiliation e.g. Liberals. Anything I post as a fact can be googled and verified I often do that myself before I post so I'm not misleading anyone and so I can't get called out on posting somehting false. I think you saying my facts are difficult to find speaks volumes as to why I think you and many others here are so misinformed if you don't know how to preform a simple search what the heck eslse are we suppossed to do (I did not call you a name just now I simply stated my opinion). ====BIG shock you think Bush is a liar but you can't prove it, this is the basis for all of my debates with you people, you have no proof you hate the man with every fiber in your being so you want it to be true so you actually believe that's it's true with out having one shred of factual evidence. That's the difference between the right and the left we'll give you the facts you'll give us emotional retohric and I think you see that as you've finally admitted that while you can't prove your theory with facts it's what you believe and how you feel. Finally I think you would love it if I became a nonfactor on this blog it's a lot easier to believe false evidence from your peers if there isn't anyone there to correct it. It's a lot easier to drabble on with hateful retorhic "I hate Bush, impeach Bush, Bush lied and people died, Republicans are rich and only care about the rich" etc,etc you no what they say Sue misery loves company. I'm just trying to be a little ray of sunshine on an otherwise dark day (blog) to enlighten people with the truth wether they decide to listen to reason and facts or not.

Amy, Values? I would never make my child do something I as an adult would be willing to do myself. How low do you have to go to get your own child to carry out the slashing of tires so you can take the heat off of yourself? I would never put my child in harm's way I'm not saying that either case is right but please...your own child? I'm glad you find Al Franken funny a lot of people didn't and that's why airamerica is over. Personally I found him quite uniformed and full of hatefull remarks. I very rarely found anything factually about his remarks but then again maybe Bush has control over the world's Yahoo and Google search engines too. Finally, you have just lost any and all credibility when you cited Michael Moore this guy is so full of BS. Here's one example of many=== He claimed that he doesn't own a single share of stock. Amy the following are facts that can be proved and have been documented. === Michael Moore owns tens of thousands of shares – including nearly 2,000 shares of Boeing, nearly 1,000 of Sonoco, more than 4,000 of Best Foods, more than 3,000 of Eli Lilly, more than 8,000 of Bank One and more than 2,000 of Halliburton, the company most vilified by Moore in "Fahrenheit 9/11." If you want to see Moore's own signed Schedule D declaring his capital gains and losses where his stock ownership is listed, it's emblazoned on the cover of Peter Schweizer's new book, "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy." Amy continue to get your information from left wing hypocrtes like Michael Moore, Al Franken, and Rajiv and you will continue to be misinformed lied to and be without credibility from those that seek the truth through cold hard facts, reason, and awareness.

Mike, PAV. I respectfully disagree with each and every point you make (except that Jeanne Garaflalo is obnoxious. That would be pretty hard to argue against.)From my perspective, its as if you have a filter that keeps out any and all facts that do not support your anti-Democratic party position. Its easy to discount any statement of fact, no matter how true, that counters your opinion, just by saying the speaker has a liberal agenda. As Steve Colbert says, apparently truth has a liberal bias. Its obvious you and I do not share the same values or for that matter, sense of reality. It's sad to say, but our discussion has been, no doubt, a complete waste of time and effort.

Slashing tires to keep people from voting is on the exact same level as jamming phone lines. These people were trying to deny people the right to vote. I'm sorry you are unable to see the similarity. Michael Moore's movie has been mostly debunked. Hillary Clinton made some very declarative statements when she voted for war. Statements that referenced her knowledge of how bad Saddam was when her husband was in office. No one was misled. Heck, Bill Clinton made the connection between Al Quaeda and Saddam. And ABC explored it in 1999. The only manipulation is the manipulation going on now to make the public believe it was all some scheme thought up by G. Bush. And the religious right isn't the ones making remarks like "Romney made a speech in front of the Ford building. Henry Ford was a Nazi sympatizer. That's enough for me to not vote for him". That was said by Joy Behar. And NBC was the one editorializing from the anchor seat about how Romney's Dad or Grandfather had more than 1 wife. If Fox said something like that about a Democrat, you can bet your bottom dollar liberals would be up in arms over it.

Amy, are you saying Moore does not own Haliburton stock? I would say that is something easily debunked. I guess maybe he bouth a mutual fund and he didn't "know" Haliburton was in it. This is th kind of denial from the left that really scares me. That and the dismissal of trying to deny someone's right to vote as not as important as jamming phone lines. Take off your navy colored glases for once, please!

"Slashing tires to keep people from voting is on the exact same level as jamming phone lines. " One teenager slashed tires. A Republican party head contracted with a telemarketing firm to jam Democratic phone lines on election day. Same head who was in contact with Rove's office all during that day and same head who Rove threw a party for to raise money for his legal defense. And that head is in jail. There is nothing "equal" about these two circumstances, Neil and you know it.

Amy, I debunked all of your points and theories by not only pointing out the facts but telling you where to find them, something you have been unwilling or unable to do. The people you cite as credible are filled with hate for anything that leans right. This discussion has not been a waste of time for me it further cements and illistrates the level ignorance and state of denial many like you on the left seem to wallow in. And as so many discussions with those on the left this conversation seems to be over because you cannot argue against the facts and truth that you have been faced with. Just so you know I am capeable of understanding that the right has it's fair share of problems and issues. I will openly acknowlege that. You on the left are like two year olds that want to take your toys and go home as soon as someone points out how your wrong (not to mention can back it up) So Amy who's the adult now?

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