ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Like A Heavyweight Boxing Match...

Posted: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:00 PM by Chuck Todd

From NBC's Chuck Todd
It's hard to pick a winner of this debate because the debate itself will be, as my colleague Ron Allen said to me earlier, "inconsequential." This debate had all the trappings of a heavyweight boxing title fight:  Incredible hype followed by an incredible letdown. The pre-fight back-n-forth between Romney and McCain seemed to foretell what was going to be a great battle between the two Republicans chasing Giuliani.  Alas, those of us in the media hoping to dissect a good verbal tussle between the two were disappointed.

If this debate is remembered at all, it will be for being the last debate NOT to include the 6'5" elephant in the room... Fred Thompson -- a person who the candidates seem to be worrying about more than any of us realized tonight.

Ok, personal disappointment in the lack of engagement aside, here are my quick thoughts:

-- McCain was the news. It felt as if the first 45 minutes of the debate was all about McCain. From Iraq to immigration, the candidates essentially were point-counterpointing with McCain. So if owning the subject matter of the debate qualifies as winning, then declare McCain the winner. But there was something about his body language tonight that didn't come across as the optimistic Republican he claims to be. There was a dourness to him at some points. His emotive high point was when he led the way in standing up during the town hall portion of the debate and showed incredible Clintonesque empathy toward the woman who lost a relative in Iraq. Overall, it was a competent performance but was it enough to give him an extra spark that his campaign seems to need?  It certainly was a "presidential" performance but right now one senses the GOP is looking for savior, not a president.

-- Rudy Giuliani was solid but he still hasn't been challenged yet. McCain tried to draw him out during the immigration exchange and Rudy did a pretty good job of fighting off the criticism without creating a moment for either himself or McCain. But it was the only time he was challenged. Still, one can sense that Giuliani is now a comfortable Republican, particularly on economic issues.

-- Mitt Romney seemed less involved in this debate than in previous broadcasts. It's possible that Romney, like the other two frontrunners, was more concerned about giving Fred Thompson an opening. The defense of running TV ads in Spanish had the "some of my best friends are Hispanics" quality to it. That's not a good thing.

-- The candidate who performed best, frankly, was Mike Huckabee. He showed that his experience as a preacher man is vital in the television age. That said, Huckabee doesn't have national security credentials and if you look carefully at what he says in these debates, it's glaring. No one notices right now because no one views him as a serious threat even while acknowledging how good he is on stage. Still, his response to Wolf on evolution was the 60-second monologue of the night; even McCain acknowledged its excellence.

-- As for the rest of the field: Tommy Thompson had some surprisingly coherent moments and probably guaranteed he'd get into the media reviews of this debate because of what he said about Fred Thompson and his veiled diplomacy shot at Pres. Bush; Tancredo is getting better, he ought to think about running for statewide office; Gilmore, Paul, Brownback and Hunter were more invisible this time than in debates past.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

What? Ron Paul is the only one who makes any sense. I can't believe the mainstream media ignores him.
The GOP candidates are all unimpressive. McCain, Guiliani or Thompson will just give us four more years of George Bush. The country can't survive that.
Mccain and Guiliani both spent too much time wrapping the flag around themselves. Mccain, of all the candidates, seems to be the most out of touch with the American public. I was most impressed with Ron Paul, who uses honesty instead of sound bytes (why can't Americans accept the fact that it is not our job to save the rest of the world; no wonder so many people hate us). I also liked the honesty of Hunter and Tancredo, and Huckabee made some good points. I would vote for Ron Paul, even though I am not a Republican. Too bad many don't think he has a chance.
In response to your comment on Huckabee's national security credentials, I think it's a bit disingenuous to call him out on that but give Romney a pass. After all, both were chief executives of their respective states, Romney for a shorter period of time than Huckabee. 9/11, with terrorists boarding planes at Boston Logan airport in Massachusetts, happened on Romney's watch. If you're going to be critical about a particular candidate's shortcomings, at least be consistent and not just assume that someone has that experience solely because they happen to currently be a frontrunner in the polls.
They tried, again unsuccessfully, to make Ron Paul "invisible". But he came out the clear winner, as one can see at www.msnbc.com./id/18963731 : Ron Paul stood out from the pack, 62%; showed the most leadership qualities, 59%; was the most convincing candidate, 63%, had the best one-liner, 45%. (The spoils for rehearsed answers and avoided questions were rightfully shared by others)
I turned off the debate half way thru. Blitzer spent all his time on McCain, Romney and Giuliani and then let them drone on and on with their non-answers.
Uh, this debate was a joke. It was JUST like a heavyweight fight- FIXED!!! If they are going to have a debate ask everyone on the panel the same questions. Romney-Guiliani-McCain all the darlings of the Council on Foriegn Relations. The rest of the candidates are "second tier" because thats the way the unified-media want's it. RON PAUL WINS AGAIN!!!!
where is the review of Ron Paul and his performance tonight? We all know your hiding him from the world by not putting him in reviews like these. Maybe you guys would have a few more comments if Mr.Paul was talked about. thank you -Minnesota
I find these debates very fascinating probably because I will be a first time voter in 08. I was just wondering where the debate will be held in Charleston, SC. My mother and I really want to go but I cant seem to find any info on it...
Democratic commentators are eternally eager for Republicans to catch up to the fact that Guiliani is pro-choice, mainly because a pro-choice, anti-jihadist, anti-crime tough-talking Republican candidate scares the bejesus out of them. It's like they're saying, "well, c'mon you guys, he's pro-choice, that's not you, right? Right?" Watch Begala if you think I'm making this up.
Ron Paul was not "more invisible" than the last debate as he gave real answers to questions rather than rhetoric. As proof for my argument I will provide you with some key quotes from Ron Paul in this debate. "...I am the Champion of the Constitution." On the question of Church and State: "Well I think we should read the first amendment where is says congress shall write no law and we should write a lot less laws regarding this matter..." On the Iraq war which Dr. Paul was the only one against, which clearly sets him apart from the other candidates: "...We should immediately stop patrolling the streets, that's a policeman's job..." "We have a lot of goodness in this country and we should promote it but never through the barrel of a gun." Invisible? Hardly though you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
As in the last debate, the "pros" saw things differently than the audience. Mr. todd says Ron Paul was "invisible". The polls say differently. It seems that the mainstream press want to tell "a" story instead of the real story. Make up your own mind and dont believe what you read from the "pros".
Why do the pundits and media ignore the fact that in the post-debate voting, Ron Paul has been the overwhelming winner in each of the three MSNBC on-line polls and also in tonight's CNN on-line poll?
You said that McCain showed "Clintonesque" sympathy. Are you kidding? Bill Clinton is nothing but a showman, there's nothing authentic about him. McCain wore the uniform, his emotions were bubbling over. You say that Huckabee lacks foreign policy credentials. So did another Arkansas governor in 1992. Then again, that governor (Bill Clinton) campaigned for president by telling the American people that foreign policy wasn't important. Look what good that did us, he let Al Qaeda become our biggest enemy.
The media is still desperately trying to ignore the only good, strong candidate that has widespread support among Republicians, AND Democrats and independents... RON PAUL! IF YOU ARE STILL UNDECIDED, take an hour or two and research Ron Paul... If you love America, liberty, and respect the U.S. Constitution, you’ll love Ron Paul! He is the only candidate that deserves your vote.
I am amazed that this article doesn't seem to see Ron Paul the winner (although the actual PEOPLE seem to, just look at the polls). People are fed up with politicians requiring big money just to get seen and have a chance. We want an honest person who isn't going to work for whoever pays them the most money, this is why people like Ron Paul. There is a war going on that is taking so much money right now that inflation will sky rocket because the funding is being printed by the Federal Reserve without Gold backing, that drives up inflation by making ever dollar worth less since there's more out there. Ron Paul will fix this, search for him on YouTube with federal reserve, watch the videos.
Ron Paul was not "more invisible" than the last debate as he gave real answers to questions rather than rhetoric. As proof for my argument I will provide you with some key quotes from Ron Paul in this debate. "...I am the Champion of the Constitution." On the question of Church and State: "Well I think we should read the first amendment where is says congress shall write no law and we should write a lot less laws regarding this matter..." On the Iraq war which Dr. Paul was the only one against, which clearly sets him apart from the other candidates: "...We should immediately stop patrolling the streets, thats a policeman's job..." "We have a lot of goodness in this country and we should promote it but never through the barrel of a gun." Invisible? Hardly though you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
I think its funny that MSNBC doesnt even mention that CNN had the first debate in NH (the first primary) also they have no mention of the moderator at all. I think CNN did a great job, they even had a lighting storm to work with in the process.
The GOP needs to take Ron Paul seriously. What chance does anyone for the Iraq war have of winning a general election? As far as I see it, it's Hilary or Ron. I pick Ron, and I imagine if the Republican base had to make that choice, they would make the same decision.
What concerns me about both parties is all the attention given to religion. Tonight Guiliani stated "...freedom of religon..." Maybe I'm mistaken but I always thought it was Freedom from religion. My husband is from Iran and watches Iranian news over the satellite and pols talk as much about religion as do they. But of course they are Muslims...I guess thats what makes them a theocracy... While being Christian makes us a democracy.
RON PAUL is clearly the best and proves it time and time again, I hope they don't whitewash the polls-he is what the country needs to keep from going to hell in a handbasket.
Ron Paul was only invisible because Wolf Blitzer was spending most of the time on the "mainstream media" candidates and not the "people's candidate?. I am soooo tired of hearing that Ron Paul is a non issue. What is the mainstream media afraid of regarding Ron Paul? Oh, yes, forgive me, it is that they will likely lose some of their power. Power to the people, Ron Paul in 2008!!!
The powers that be (that darn Council of Foriegn Traitors er Relations) will not let the American public have the only Republican that has any chance of winning. I speak of course of RON PAUL. Its too bad too because he would win by a landslide. The danger is they decide to let him win then stick their trojan horse candidate as a veep then pull another Kennedy. Nothing is beyond the criminocracy running America today
Ron Paul won this, and will win every other debate, because he speaks the TRUTH! The so-called top tier are just "Moe, Larry and Curly". I'll let you decide which stooge matches up with which Stooge.....Google videos: 9/11 Press for Truth, Loose Change 2nd Edition
Something tells me we did not see a future president on stage tonight.
I am sick to death of neo-cons, not too thrilled with the Democratic choices, but there is one Republican I like, Ron Paul. I used to like McCain, he lost me along the line, ditto for Guilliani, same old neo-con crap! I am TIRED of it and I think I represent a lot of Americans when I say that. If he does not get the nomination, I hope he runs 3rd party again, this time, people know who he is and I think he can win as so many of us are sick of the same old.
Why can't the second tier of candidates beginning with Huckabbe be allowed to take on another second tier candidate such as Tommy Thompson in Newt Gingrich's format of a 90 minute debate on the Fair Tax system in Arkansas and then move the next 90 minute debate to Wisconsin on Health Care
Yeah, I have to chime in with everyone else. Ron Paul is the only one who makes any sense at all, not only on Iraq but on spending, health care, our disappearing civil liberties, etc.
Amidst the canned party line answers, only Dr. Paul represented a sane view based on reality. The media's insistence on ignoring Dr. Paul is a disgrace. Why will corporate media not report more widely, or at all, on the growing popularity of this candidate? Are you purposefully trying to rid the electoral process of someone who does not toe the big money special interest party line? Look at any poll results and you will see Dr. Paul clearly in front. Except of course on Fox, who did not even do a poll for some reason.
Ron Paul is killing the repug corporate (Fed Reserve) lemmings parading as presidential candidates....Too bad the vote's gonna be rigged against him. Rudy Guiliani - a respectable Republican Candidate? These are truly, truly pathetic times.....
Hey, get your head out of your yank butt and tell the truth. Ron Paul won everything. You just very very prejudiced - or are you worried about your income stream?
They are Censoring Ron PAul!!! avoided asking him questions on the debate in fair share and then pulled his victory online via “the who won blog” and the online voting section. On top of it, Ron one at 53% with over 1700 votes with rudy and Mckain trailing with 400 votes and at 13% post show they said rudy won the online poll and ron paul only had 2% votes. Spread the word…. Ron Paul is worth censoring by the biggest news company in our country and around the world? why? go checkout his youtube videos or his website. why else?
Here comes the Ron Paul crowd. Hook up internet access to a few basements and suddenly Ron Paul wins all the internet polls.
It seems the Ron Paul people seem to be very passionate about him. I am not a fan of the way only the frontrunners are covered after the debates. The others only get passing comments from the media. Personally I think Huckabee has done the best in the three combined debates, but I do like Ron Paul's passion even if I don't agree with him
Ron Paul is looking better and better every debate. He was relaxed and extremely well informed as usual. I declare him the winner.
After three debates I would have to say that I could not support any of the Democrats because of their stance on Iraq and socialized health care. As for the Republicans I would have to say that at this time three of them are beginning to stand out. They are McCain, Giulian, and Huckabee. I find it strange that I am drawn to both Giulian and Huckabee. I keep writing Huckabee off but he keeps coming to the top of my list after each debate. I do have doubts about McCain because of the immigration bill, of which I have very mixed feelings. On Iraq I agree with him. So far I have not been able to connect with Romney. I can't really say why but he just hasn't touched me. It may be that I think he is trying to buy his way to election. Tancredo did make some points with me tonight but he is a one note candidate. The only person on that stage tonight that I cannot support is Ron Paul. I think he is a naive fool who is not living in the real world.
The insaneley biased and distorted view coming out in your media is astonishing. As an Australian viewing this process from a distance even I can see that Ron Paul's existance is being covered up, misrepresented or simply ignored by journalists and the media at large. What is going on over there? Has a decision been made in the dakrened rooms with closed doors that he's not to get any coverage? He seems to be the only one who actually has answers not rhetoric.
An interesting quote in response to the accusations of media bias in not covering Ron Paul: "We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But now the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supra national sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller, Private Banker, Council of Foreign Affairs, 1991
"The Boxer"--Simon & Garfunkel
C'mon guys, I like Paul, but realize that the media ignored him last night. How is it that the only OB-GYN on stage is not asked a question about abortion or health care? This was like a heavy-weight boxing match in that the main candidates got all the attention.
I am so glad to see Republicans getting behind Ron Paul. As a democrat, I clearly think he is the only one who makes a lick of sense. The rest of these idiots clinging to support of this war. I am telling you, republicans, if you want to win, you better nominate someone who can distance himself from this god awful mess in Iraq.
A FULL BLOWN THEATRICAL EVENT LAST NIGHT!!!!!! ( AMAZING HOW THE MEDIA CAN BE BOUGHT OFF ) *SO OBVIOUS*. PLEASE AMERICANS DONT BE SO NIEVE!! IF I WAS PUT ON STAGE TO ANSWER YES OR NO ? THEN I DECIDE TO BE A DRAMA QUEEN,I WOULD BE BOOTED,EMBARRASSED BY MY PEERS ! WHY WASNT RUDY & MCCAIN ? THEY ACTED LIKE CHILDREN AND WAS ALLOWED!! PATHETICALLY IGNORING THE SIMPLE RULES AND CNN LETTING THEM??????? IF THIS DOESNT SEND A RED FLAG, THEN WHAT WILL IT TAKE? PROVES TO ME AGAIN MONEY TALKS, WHICH DOESNT HELP THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ONE OUNCE!! ( JUST CURIOUS ) WHY IS SO MUCH TIME SPENT ON ABORTION? A MAJOR DECISION BETWEEN THE INDIVIDAL AND GOD. EVERY CANIDATE COULD HAVE HAD MORE TIME TO SPEAK ABOUT THIER OWN CONCERNS BUT WE SPENT 30% OF THE DEBATE ON A LAW THAT WORKS, URRRG... LETS TALK ABOUT HOW WE GOT IN THIS MESS TO BEGIN WITH & HOW WE ARE GOING TO START OBEYING THE LAWS OF THE LAND, INSTEAD OF MAKING THEM UP AS WE GO!!!!!!!!!! ( AMERICANS ARE REALLY TIRED OF THE B-S ) WE WANT ACTION, SICK OF THE DRAMA!! MARY
Although NOT a repub, I watched the entire debate-I like to know the enemy. As expected there were a bunch of bush clone gasbags, with the outstanding exception of Ron Paul. Kind of funny how all these other clowns distance themselves and bash bush, but sound exactly like him on just about every issue-or at least the ones they actually gave answers to.
Ron Paul was the only one who stood up there to really make a stand for sensibility in foreign and domestic policy. No one pays attention to the guy speaking the truth, the guy who everyone who actually goes online and reads extensively realizes is right about all of this. But that's because he hasn't been chosen by the media to win, he's been chosen to play the "outsider" role and that's the hole into which the media is stuffing him, but informed people like myself are sick of being told which hot-air celebrity candidates are my choices. I'm supporting Ron Paul even if the media wants to boycott his message.
I don't know from every thing i have seen in these debates dem or rep all i can say is GW four more yrs.
Although I personally didn't have the time to waste watching Bush clones promising us four more years of "stay the course" politics, the debate was very definitely in the words of Ron Allen "inconsequential". If the Democrats play their cards right, realize that the United States is not progressive, and will not elect a woman named Clinton..nor any woman...nor a black man named Barack...nor any black man/woman (I would personally, most definitely support either...but I am not in the mainstream) and put forth a rich, white, male...apparently John Edwards, they will win the election of November 2008. I am in no way attempting to be cynical, but be a realist. I very much want the GOP out of the White House, and to be delusional about who may or may not 'have a chance' is far too risky a proposition, when we are facing essentially four more years of the Bush Regime, if we make a mistake.
I thought the comment about how americans are subjected to physical security searches at airports and yet we can't secure our borders from illigal immigrants was an excellent contrasting statement, in that, those of us who obey the law are subjected to a different set of rules than those who blatantly violate it.
The prehype was, I thought, about Giuliani's lack of understanding about 9-11, and Dr. Ron Paul's calling him (and many more) on it. Then, I read the introductory article, and there's no mention of the Texas congressman? You guys, the rest of the media, and I fear the party's leadership are OUT OF TOUCH with the reasons why Dr. Paul is ACTUALLY so popular.
The most qualified candidate is not yet in the race, and, no, it is not that cornpone huckster Fred Thompson. Among all those who have a realistic chance in 2008, Al Gore is the best person to be president. He has spent the last 6 years defending the Constitution and raising the most important foreign and domestic issues. Let's hope he gets in this thing.
John Mccain's answer to the "Hispanic" question really lost me. Those Hispanic names on the Vietnam War Memorial were all citizens who gave their all for their country. None of them entered this country illegally. We all are aware of the rich cultural contributions of the Hispanic community. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THEM. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ENTER OUR COUNTRY ILLEGALLY AND THEN EXPECT THE SAME RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS LEGAL IMMIGRANTS HAVE EARNED. John Mccain, you lost me on this one.


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=215122

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google