First thoughts

Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:13 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: First Thoughts

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Carly Zakin
*** Some Heart Bloomberg, Others Will Hate Him: The Bloomberg boomlet is in full swing today. Editorial writers are predisposed to love anyone or anything that represents the word "bipartisanship." So the op-ed pages are full of praise for the mayor many of these editorial writers don't even know simply because he's uttered that magic word "bipartisanship." The fallout for Giuliani and Clinton is covered in more detail today. In particularly, the Giuliani-Bloomberg rivalry is one that is already tabloid fodder. But Clinton won't escape from this New York story either. Bloomberg and Clinton share many of the same local supporters who appear to be divided already. Check out Ed Koch's comments.

*** Rise Of The Independents?

Another independent -- Joe Lieberman, whom Bloomberg campaigned for last year -- holds a fundraiser in DC tonight for moderate GOP Sen. Susan Collins (R), who likely will face a tough re-election fight next year. To poke their nemesis Lieberman in the eye, liberal MoveOn yesterday issued a press release stating that its members had raised $350,000 for likely Collins opponent Tom Allen (D), freshman Rep. Patrick Murphy, and MoveOn’s Iraq campaign. With Bloomberg’s possible presidential candidacy, was Lieberman’s win as an independent last year a sign of things to come? Or, if Collins loses and Bloomberg doesn’t run (or does and loses), will he find himself even more isolated come November 5, 2008?

*** Party Blood Thicker Than Water:

Speaking of 2008 Senate races, President Bush heads to Alabama today to raise money for one of the biggest critics of the Senate immigration bill he supports: GOP Sen. Jeff Sessions. One senator quoted Bush as saying to Sessions when he traveled up to Capitol Hill to revive the immigration bill, "Don't worry, I'll still go to your fundraiser. We disagree about this but we are friends." Yet is Bush’s fundraiser for Session a sign that he isn’t interested in twisting GOP arms too much to get the legislation to his desk? Before the fundraiser, Bush makes remarks on energy in Alabama.

*** Another Mormon Story: The Boston Globe today writes Romney’s political opponents are beginning to become more vocal about his religion. Is it time for that JFK-esque speech? The Globe notes three of Romney's foes (McCain, Brownback, and Giuliani) now have had supporters engage in anti-Mormon behavior.

*** Slick Hillary? How good is Clinton getting at avoiding controversial stances? So good that AP's Ron Fournier -- who has covered the Clintons longer than any national reporter in the country -- is dubbing her "Slick Hillary." Fournier uses examples from her remarks in DC this week, especially at the AFSCME forum, where he notes she left wiggle room on a number of issues.

*** On The Trail: Brownback hits eight more towns in Iowa; Clinton will be in DC and Detroit; Edwards supports Smithfield, NC workers' efforts to organize, and then speaks on middle-class debt at Cooper Union in New York City; Gilmore raises money in Atlanta; Giuliani speaks to supporters in Florida; Huckabee makes fundraising calls in Arkansas; Obama is in DC; and Richardson participates in an AFL-CIO convention town hall meeting in Phoenix and then raises money there.

Countdown to CA-37 Special Election: 5 days
Countdown to the Ames Straw Poll: 51 days
Countdown to MA-05 Special Election: 73 days
Countdown to LA GOV election: 121 days
Countdown to Election Day 2007: 138 days
Countdown to LA GOV run-off (if necessary): 149 days
Countdown to Iowa: 217 days
Countdown to Tsunami Tuesday: 228 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 502 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 579 days

EMAIL THIS

Comments

MMmmm I like SICK Bush we should tag Bush with War not Peace, or Sicky Bushie the star of SICKO! Keep our health insurance High and the cures LOW! Vote for the Party of WAR and ANTI STEM CELL RESEARCH.

H P Boston (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:37 AM)

I was really happy to finally see an article that took a real look at the troubling aspects of Hillary. With the constant fawning of her by the msm and proclaiming her presidential, I always wonder why. she has put out no policy, triangulates, blurs. All the clinton tricks.
I have yet to see the msm take a real look at her, ask some of the tough questions and hold her to the same standards as the others.
she has been allowed to skate for far too long without the scrutiny the others have to go through.
By scrutiny, I mean, about her positions, her corporate ties and free trade ideas. Her union busting advisor and other things that would already be a hot topic if it was one of the others.
If Hillary wants to be president then she should be treated the same as the others. The office is not hers to be coronated to just because her husband use to be president. She needs to stand on her own two feet and stop having Bill bail her out all the time. she needs to prove why anyone should vote for her outside of her marriage.

diane (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:38 AM)

Well the pollsters are out there....
I think all women should answer with oh ya we want BLOOMBERG. Time to confuse the hell out of them, we want an independent. Remember women are the MARJORITY
so VOTE EARLY AND VOTE OFTEN!

H P Boston (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:42 AM)

Gatekeepers for Hiliary???

Sounds like Praetorian guards are alive and well in the 21st century.

Or is it the SS?

jtb (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:44 AM)

With the way Liberals have pretty much destroyed Maine in the last few years, I don't see Susan Collins having much problems getting re-elected. Coming to a town near you: The slick willie and hillie show. Talk about a war in New York story coming soon.

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:47 AM)

Chuck Todd, maybe its inappropriate to comment on another political story on this thread, however I just read your piece conjecturing over '08 not being Hillary's year, and I could not disagree with you more. Kerry lost because voters didn't want to change Presidents in the middle of a war. At least, that was the reason the only person I knew who voted for Bush gave me (the bus driver I talked to on election night.) Think about the slop the Republicans threw on Kerry and ask yourself how much harder it would have been for Hillary to endure that kind of attack. If there is ever a year for Hillary, this is it, when people are so angry with Bush they are looking to vote for his opposite. Who else is Bush's most natural enemy, but Hillary? Furthermore, I saw the Chris Matthews tape and I had a completely different take on it. To me, Hillary was not so much trying to avoid answering the question about Libby, as she was turning the crowd's reaction to her advantage. I never knew she was as a good a politician as that: it was masterful, to my ears, pitch perfect. I still back Edwards because I think he represents real change, but, I have to say, I like Hillary more and more.

Amy B Portland, ME (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:48 AM)

jerri you go girl.

jerri fan (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:53 AM)

WE have more dead Americans in Iraq. More WASTED lives for a lost WAR. Time to demand an end to this MISTAKE, THIS HUGE BLUNDER , THIS ILLEGAL INVASION

THIS CRIME! WE lay it at the feet of SICKO BUSH.

H P Boston (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:57 AM)

AMY great post, you are a person who gives thought and
seeks info before you vote. Wish every American would do that.

H P Boston (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:00 AM)

For Todd, Matthews, and all the other straight Irish-Catholic males who quiver at the thought of a woman putting them in their place, I have something to say. TOO. F#*KN. BAD.

The day when voters require approval from the good ol' boys is over.

JoeCHI, Chicago, IL (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:05 AM)

Fourteen more dead yesterday, and the Iraqi government's unraveling is accelerating. This what bush and them call progress?

Scott in South Texas (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:11 AM)

HAVEN'T CHECK OUT HILLARY CLINTON'S WEB SITE YET ? WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR ? HILLARYCLINTON.COM , THE INFO. IS "FREE" AND THE KNOWLEDGE IS PRICELESS.

PATRIOT (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:14 AM)

JoeCHI.....YOU are so MY HERO! WELL SAID!

H P Boston (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:18 AM)

Amy--Hillary will not answer about Scooter Libby because Bill Clinton pardoned Marc Rich, she doesn't need that firestorm brewing in her life right now. She has more then enough controversy on her plate.

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:20 AM)

With the way Republcians have destroyed this entire nation, made up a war, continue to allow thousands of americans to die, you know a Democratic landslide is inevitable in '08. Jerry and his fellow radical right wing "lets screw this nation" republicans are going down .....

Ricardo in California (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:28 AM)

Hillary blatantly didn't answer the question about Libby!!! Why couldn't she just say NO, I don't think he should be pardoned!!! The Libby scandal is sort of a big deal in politics these days. If anyone is liking Hillary "more and more" because of her performance at the AFSCME forum, as someone on this post stated, then the are not looking for real change!!!!

Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:29 AM)

The Clinton's were scumbags then & they're scum bags still.

Bush Republican (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:30 AM)

Amy B, Portland, ME--As a very disaffected Republican who did NOT vote for Bush in 2004, my own take on why Kerry lost that year is: (a) he was a very poor campaigner; (b) he had no message to get out; and (c) he had no record to point to. Kerry's sole selling point was that he served in Vietnam--laudable enough as far as it went, but hardly a basis for electing him President (my brother served in Vietnam and I wouldn't elect him, either). Kerry did nothing in 20+ years in the Senate to justify elevating him to the Presidency, and that, I think, was clear in the campaign.

Anyone who doubts that Hilary Clinton is a good politician (in addition to being a celebrity) does so at his/her peril. If she manages to win (and I hope she doesn't because I don't like Socialists or people whose policy inclinations are in that vein), she may turn out to be an effective President (particularly if she can curb her natural pro-government solution instincts), but I doubt she can win--she has too much baggage traveling with her right now.

I wish I could see someone who deserves to be President this time around, but right now there's nobody on the horizon who has the combination of experience, principles, and governing philosophy to justify electing. Maybe in time someone will materialize (though I'm not holding my breath).

Richard Fifield, Easton, PA (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:32 AM)

Well said Jerry!!! How quickly people forget!!!

Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:32 AM)

"With the way Liberals have pretty much destroyed Maine in the last few years, I don't see Susan Collins having much problems getting re-elected."
Jerry--
Care to give some facts to back this up? And by facts I don't mean anecdotes or rhetoric.

Siegfried, Central Illinois (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:33 AM)

Jerry, what the eff do you know about what's going on in Maine?

JJ in NJ (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:33 AM)

LEWIS...ANY change is a GOOD change at this point.

HP Boston (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:33 AM)

seven examples/reasons why the shrub/monkey boy has destroyed our country. 1) 10 billion dollars unaccounted for in Iraq and post-Katrina;2)50 billion estimated to cost before invasion;3)1.2 trillion estimated to finally cost;4)45 million americans w/o hlth insurance;5)5 million lost hlth insurance under Bush; 6)3 TRILLION the national debt has risen under Bush and finally 7) about 24% of our debt is owed to foreign countries like China/Japan which our future generations will have to pay. I AM SO DISGUSTED WITH THE RIGHT WING REPUBLICANS AND ASS KISSING BLOGGERS WHO HAVE THE AUDACITY TO CRITIZE DEMOCRATS AS TAX AND SPEND LIBERALS.

juan, ft lauderdale,fl (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:34 AM)

Well, that wasn't the truly awkward part, Jerry, nor the most direct aspect of Matthews' question to Hillary. She doesn't want to comment on a perjury conviction, period, and for obvious reasons. Its funny how the two sides switched their arguments from the late 1990s to now. I regularly hear Republicans now saying the perjury conviction shouldn't stand because there was no underlying crime, lol. Its priceless to see how either shameless or sheeplike these Republicans are. And of course the Democrats are the same, but just on the other side of this more current conviction.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:36 AM)

SAY WHAT YOU FEEL!!! It seems to me that the Clintons have NEVER done that!!! I consider myself a democrat and I don't think Libby should go jail for 30 months!!! Why is that so hard for her to say. I just read Chuck Todd's article and I agree with him 100%. I would've been extremely excited about her candidacy in 2004, but she was too busy NOT HELPING Kerry's campaign so she could run in 2008. I don't think 2008 is her year--if this is truly a change election. Lastly, HP you're incorrect. ANY change isn't GOOD change at this point. The RIGHT change isd GOOD change.

Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:49 AM)

Jerry LIves in NORTHERN MEXICO!! (he thinks it's texas)
HE IS WAITING FOR AMNESTY! Pass that bill free jerry.
He wants to go to Maine with the MANICS!

H P Boston (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:05 AM)

First of all, Hillary didn't run in 2004 because during her first Senate campaign she promised she would serve her full term.

I agree with Paul about the change in perceptions re: perjury in the last 10 years. Perjury is a serious offense in its own right, and I don't think those convicted of it should get a free pass. The problem that I have with the whole Clinton perjury thing is what he lied about. It still boggles the mind that we wasted millions of dollars to find out whether or not he got a blow job in the Oval Office. On the other hand, you have Libby, who was convicted of perjury for his role in covering up the leak of a CIA agent for political gains. Even though both instances deal with perjury, one is clearly a more serious violation than the other.

Carrie, NW Iowa (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:14 AM)

Pulling out the Maine Pig book 2007..., maine's median household income is $39,395. They have approximately 1.3 million residents. The state goverment is spending $222 per second. Maine's goverment is spending in less then three minutes what the average household makes in a year. maine's total debt right now is $12,553,180,000. The interest on that debt will cost the taxpayers of maine billions of dollars. By delaying the the payoff of the unfunded actuarial liability owed to the Maine state retirement fund from the year 2019 to 2028, an additional $2.4 billion will be unnecessarily spent by the state. That is $1850 for each man, woman and child that lives in the state. If you libs are so hot about this socialized medicine that Hillary is pushing, then you need to check out maine's version of socialized medicine, specially the Dirigo Health Initiative. That was supposed to eliminate non-insured people in Maine, this only added to the numbers. Just leave the current system alone and everyone will get along fine.

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:17 AM)

HEY is Kerry still running? Lewis Forget about Kerry I heard he is not running. Wish it was so ,He would be a good President FOR A CHANGE.

H P Boston (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:23 AM)

Hey Bush Republican .... you should know all about scumbags ... your White House has given scumbag a whole new meaning .... what the Clinton's did pales in comparison to the way Bush has screwed this nation.

Ricardo in California (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:26 AM)

Ed Koch? Why does anyone listen to that laughable, closeted, bipolar old coot?

Mark, Dallas, TX (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:38 AM)

Why did his skull & bones peers call Geo W Bush 'LIPS?' Anybody...........? And were his lips big and red, small and pink, fat and brown, twisted and purple, botoxed and moist? And, yes, who did he do with those labia?

dog gone cat (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:39 AM)

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:17 AM)

jerry, Maine's health care is a failure therefor national health care will be a failure....and also, jerry, my ford 150 isn't running, so don't buy an f150 because it won't run for you either.

dog gone cat (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:42 AM)

Let's not forget Lieberman's incredible behavior. He is more Republican than Bush is. To think that he was once considered to be a VP candidate in the Democratic Party makes me ill. The best thing that happened in that defeat was his not being elected as VP.

Ravine Force, Kissimmee, FL (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:57 AM)

Maybe Collins should have a hard time in the next election for always putting party before the Mainers (not Manics) she is supposed to be representing

Paula, Maine (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:00 PM)

Carrie (11:14), I agree whole heartedly with your post, and would only add that the "important" difference for the republicans who are the most vocal on this subject is what Bill Clinton did vs. what bush and them did. To them, everything associated with Clinton is evil, while everything associated with bush and them is virtuous. Attacking Clinton is their method of defending bush and them, on this subject and all others. It's pathetic, but that's all they have.

Scott in South Texas (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:11 PM)

jerry,
once again, US Senators do not oversee state spending; the governors and state legislatures have that responsibility. therefore, your stats do not have a lot of bearing on Collins.
It is amazing that repugs think a bj is a far worse crime than letting the murderer bin Laden get away and doing away with the task force looking for him. this should be an issue the dems hammer the repubs; after all, they were supposed to be harder on crime and terrorism...where's the results? maybe that's another reason why generic polls are leaning dem.

Mark Y; Westlake Village, CA (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:14 PM)

Thanks for your interest in our state, Jerry. Dirigo is Latin for "I Lead," our state motto. That's what we have in Maine, leadership. We are trying to tackle the problem of our thousands of uninsured people ourselves (isn't that what conservatives are all on about, doing things at a state level?) Personally, I lived without Health insurance the entire time I worked 40+ hours a week at L.L.Bean for six years. That's when I learned that "what's good for Business is good for America" is not true. What are people supposed to do if their companies choose not to offer health insurance to all their workers? Alot of my political outlook has been shaped by my experience working for that company, and seeing how corporations exercise power. (Don't get me started on outsourcing and downsizing.) Dirigo Health is a struggling experiment but at least we are DOING something. And, if you think Maine is a liberal state, you really are "from away."

Amy B Portland, ME (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:16 PM)

Ah sorry Paula. Manics is a song,(DISCO) I never diss Maine.

I love Maine, "THE WAY LIFE SHOULD BE."

H P Boston (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:22 PM)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113485 This is funny.
So is this. http://blogs.usatoday.com/gallup/2007/06/what_do_hmos_an.html

Dave, Tn (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:27 PM)

If Hillary wins the Democratic primary I will vote for her.I will not listen to toejam morris or pufferface hannity scream,whine and moan about how awful it will be for America.They have sucked on the Bush buttocks for so long they have proven they do not have a love of country---only the party and cannot admit that Bush has been a the ugly american

HMT (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:30 PM)

Lieberman has given independents a bad name.

Russell in Maryland (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:31 PM)

I'm thinking Bloomberg may be getting setup for 2012 rather tnan 2008. The signs are there for a Republican party split between the "classic" Republican (Country Club; Med/Small Business owner) and the Nixon/Reagan Republican (southern; fundamentalist religionists). Especially if the '08 electtion is the wipeout for Republicans that the polls indicate now.
Meaning Bloomberg forming a "classic" moderate conservative party with some "blue dog" Democratics. He would be betting that the Democratic President/Congress that wins in '08 would swing too far to left alienating the middle.

OutWest (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:45 PM)

I WONDER DID ANY OF THE REPUBLICANS STOP TO THINK, WHY SO MANY "LIBERAL" DEMOCRATICS GET SO UPSET AT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. IT'S REALLY "SIMPLE", THE COUNTRY IS BEING RUN BY A BUNCH OF "IDIOTS". IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE. WE HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE BETTER ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISLE WHO COULD DO SO MUCH BETTER. BUT WERE STUCK WITH THEASE JERKS AND "WE" WILL ALL BE PAYING FOR THERE MISTAKES FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES.OH WE'LL BETTER DAYS HAVE GOT TO BE AHEAD, RIGHT NOW WE ARE LIVING IN A NIGHTMARE. THIS MOVIE HAS GOT TO END SOMETIME. A RESIGNATION WOULD BE NICE!

JOHNNY JUSTICE ANYWHERE USA (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:10 PM)

Perjury is Perjury reagardless of what is about. I'm absolutley AMAZED how anyone can defend Bill Clinton in his perjury case. Now mind you I think Bill Clinton paid a price for his perjury be being impeached, but think of what he could've accomplished without such foolishness. A VERY strong arguement could be made that the no crime was even made in the Libby trial. I guess it's true liberals are every bit as partisan as conservative---as liberal I'm coming to that realization.

Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:15 PM)

Ravine: Joe Lieberman in the only Humphery/Kennedy/Jackson/Daley/ Democrat left in that pitiful remnant of a once vibrant, America first, people first party that is now run by Mr. Soros and Move on. You should listen to the millions of independents/centrist Democrats who voted Green party.
they can tell you first hand what is wrong with the Sorocratic party in '07.

jtb (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:31 PM)

Glad to see you on the blog Richard...a REAL and reasonable conservative voice..unlike puppets like Jerry.

CJ (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:41 PM)

The more the repubs whine,and scream and attack Hillary, the more I want her to win. Can you imagine if a democratic female became president AND its Hillary Clinton, Bills wife. OH MY GOD IN HEAVEN!! The repubs would all stroke out and froth at the mouth. I will vote for Hillary not just because shes a democrat with liberal ideas, but the reaction from the repubs will be priceless!!Go Hillary.

Susan, Miami (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:49 PM)

Richard Fifield: I concur. There is really no one who has emerged as a candidate who can unite our nation on the principles upon which it was founded. No Lincoln, TR, FDR. No JFK, no Ford. Perhaps it is a stretch, but we have no Clinton either. We go into our future not with the president we may want, but we go, prayerfully, with the president we have. Lord, have mercy.

Mark Thieme (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 2:13 PM)

CJ--Thanks for the compliment. I try. I don't know if Jerry is a "puppet" or not. He may just be as angry as most of the liberal/leftist/Democratic bloggers on this site.

I get upset with the base, caustic, and knee-jerk reactive tone of some posters, too. But I've followed politics long enough to know that name-calling, denigrating, and destructive discourse is fundamentally non-persuasive and, therefore, ultimately futile. It's easy to attack, tear down and destroy. What's a LOT harder is to propose constructive alternatives. Neither side seems to want to do that harder job; that's why our political discourse is so shrill, partisan and empty, and, ultimately, why so little gets done. I try, whether in discussing politics or in posting here, to propose constructive alternatives, or at least to explain why I don't agree with (or why I question) a position.

If I don't succeed, I know I can count on someone out there to call me on it. I hope someone will.

Richard Fifield, Easton, PA (Sent Thursday, June 21, 2007 2:16 PM)

Next >>

SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

Your name, city and state (John Doe, Seattle, Wash.):

Your e-mail address (jdoe@msnbc.com):

Your website (it's okay if you don't have one):

Remember me? (We'll keep it private) Remember me?

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=231670