Obama calls for merit pay

Posted: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:39 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: Democrats

From NBC's Lauren Appelbaum

In an address to the National Education Association Annual Meeting in Philadelphia, Obama risked a strong reception and broke from the other Democratic presidential candidates by calling for merit-based pay -- an issue unions are typically against. But Obama did not receive any audible boos, and he actually received some applause because of the way he framed his stance.

"The most controversial aspect of any discussion of teacher compensation is merit pay,” Obama said, “and I know that folks here object to the idea properly that if you are being measured and paid simply by how the child is doing on a test without taking into account what that child is coming to the school with, ... if it's all based on assessments made on No Child Left Behind, then it's not fair to pay teachers who are pouring their heart out based on some of these arbitrary measures."

He pledged to work with the NEA and teachers' unions to determine a new system for accountability. "What I want to do is work with teachers, and where we can work with teachers to come up with ways to set those kinds of professional standards, then I want to be part of that process,” Obama said. “But I'm not going to do it to you; I'm going to do it with you."

In addition to merit-based pay, Obama also called for increased salaries across the board and higher pay for teachers willing to work in more difficult schools in urban and rural or to mentor younger teachers. He said he would release the specific policies for teachers' pay in the next few months.

Obama also addressed the typical topics including No Child Left Behind, the recent Supreme Court decision and teachers' pay. He did it with a style unlike his competitors have thus far and received standing ovations.

He went over his time limit and was interrupted by music at several points. Obama joked about the interruptions, asking if he was receiving the hook, but then continued on with his speech. Throughout his speech, Obama continuously poked fun of his love for Iowa.

He repeated a line Clinton has been using the past few weeks.

"I know that we've got a lot of strong Democrats in field,” Obama said. “There are a lot of good people who are out there who have done good work and are going to be your friends. And you won't hear me saying a bunch of bad stuff about them."

Obama received a lengthy applause for this, but then like Dodd and Edwards, Obama did not miss the opportunity to offer a slight dig at Clinton. After addressing the NEA on Monday, Clinton went to Iowa for her multiple-day trip with numerous "rallies for change." Obama, who has been running on a platform of hope and as the change candidate, did not let this slide.

"Everybody's going to say they're for change, but change has to be more than a slogan," Obama said. "Change is going to involve us bridging those divisions that have plagued us for so long."

Huckabee, the Lone Republican
Later today, Gov. Huckabee and Sen. Biden will address the organization. Huckabee is the only Republican to address the NEA. Yesterday, after running a July 4th 10K, he touted specific education reforms he made in Arkansas.

"I think that's what's going to speak to those folks in Philadelphia," Huckabee stated. "I'm the only Republican who's going to talk to them, but I'm not afraid to go talk to them, because I've got a record on education that I'll put up against anybody -- Democrat, Republican, Independent."

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Comments

This all reminds me of Robert F. Kennedy and what he told the doctors -- he would tax them on their high salaries to fund liberal programs. At least Obama shares that tendency to be straightforward.

I'm tired of euphemisms. I'm tired of secrecy. I'm tired of partisan stupidity. I'm looking for compromises and willingness to work with members of the opposite party on national problems. I'm looking for pragmatism. Obama looks like a breath of fresh air.

Johndroe (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:04 PM)

Obama simply has a way of telling people things they don't want to hear in ways they can stomach it. I don't know how he does it, but it's clearly a gift that can help us out of this divisive partisan divide among so many issues

Mark, NY (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:20 PM)

Senator Barack Obama to thy ownself be true. This man regardless of the situation just really doesn't care to pander to ANY group at all. There is something to like about this man regardless of race, religion or party. He speaks to the masses, and I'm grateful to God for this very fact.

Lynn, Millington (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:23 PM)

I like that Barack Obama has the courage and leadership to take unpopular stands on things and say so. No pandering or cheap and easy applause lines for him.
Why the media insists on viewing this deeply intellectual man as have no substance is beyond me.
Especially in light of them portraying Hillary as having alot and yet, she never says anything and has not put our policy or how she will fix things.
Hillary is sheep while Obama is a leader.
I wish the msm would be more fair and truthful.

diane (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:28 PM)

What a guy!!! I have never seen anything like this since i have been following politics. I think he is the uniter we've been waiting for. I think our generation have a future with him in the white house.

Bee (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:42 PM)

amen, to all three of you. i have had the honor of living in Illinois for my entire 23 year life span, of which I've "known" Obama for a few years now. he's the real deal. such a great guy. awesome communicator and the only person in politics that has motivated me to do something.

scott (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:48 PM)

It's good that Obama doesn't pander to his crowds. More importantly, Obama and Edwards have to start taking it to Hillary. She's gotten a free ride for long enough. The primaries are for pointing out differences between candidates. It's time to ask Hillary why she voted for the Iraq war, when a majority of Senate Democrats voted against it. She's been golossing this over. If her judgement was that bad then, why would it be better, now ? If George Bush could so completely fool her, who else could ? What is the advantage of her experience in the Senate?

Sierra, San Francisco (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:16 PM)

I think it is wrong to want to preferentially fund math, science and English teachers over art and music teachers. Since only tests for these subjects are currently being implemented/considered I'm against this idea.

Education is not only about being useful and productive, it is about becoming a human being. Aren't there enough consumers already? How about starting to educate people to become humans?

Yiannis, Baltimore, MD (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:26 PM)

Merit pay for teachers? Consider this scenario. You are trained to teach golf. You got A'a in all classes in both knowledge and technique. You are assigned a group of 20 students. We will pick them randomly off the street. No entry criteria or test. Some may not be athletic or may be physically challenged. You have one hour a day, five days a week to teach them to play. At the end of seven months, your students will play 18 holes. You will be paid based on their scores. Are you willing to try this and have your pay based only on their scores at the end of 18 holes? Next time you think merit pay for teachers is good idea, think of it this way.

Mary, IL (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:32 PM)

You gotta love the people that say that Obama doesn't or hasn't taken any political risks. He takes a risk every time he goes to an event like this and refuses to pander. I admire this man, he has my vote.

Jim, Providence, RI (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:41 PM)

Despite what critics may say the Senator stands up for what he believes in and it's very admirable. Just like he told the Detroit Economic Club what he believed and not what they wanted to hear, he did the same with the NEA. There is no doubt in my mind that the people will see all of the wisdom, sound judgement and most of all logic that he possesses and he will be elected the 44th president of the United States and restore the integrity of the U.S presidency domestically and abroad.

Eric Los Angeles, CA (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 7:23 PM)

Senator Barack Obama seems like a good choice. I hope he continues to NOT be beholden to ANY group, doesn't compromise democratic values, and fights for the citizens of these United States. We U.S. citizens have not been represented for years and years, and we need someone in the White House who is not going to be held hostage by money, other democrats or the republican party, considers the best for ALL citizens (not just the wealthy) doesn't play footsies with anyone in Congress or business, and has the ethics and integrity to stay away from anything or anybody that/who will comprise the presidency. I for one, am more than ready for a change. I need someone who speaks the truth, and allows the citizens of the United States to think for themselves, and not let special interest groups - religious or commercial - to run this country. I have not been represented in far too many years. We also need to allow teachers to teach and stop using the factory model and punishment to run schools. I am tired of the spins.

Dr. Yvonne Siu-Runyan, Professor Emeritus (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 7:38 PM)

Obama is one of the most 'real' politicians I've seen in my lifetime. He doesn't talk in sound-bites and doesn't offer you the moon. He rises above the slogan, sees clearly the broad situation, reaches across superficial divisions and comes up with win-win solutions. There's is a very good reason why he engenders hope in so many. Electing him as president would turn this country back around to a future we'll be proud to leave our children!

Terri, NY (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:02 PM)

it was truman who said i only tell them the truth and they think it is hell! this appears to be obama's mojo. refreshing but risky. thus as hilary panders to black women telling them if the hiv scourge had affected white women as it has blacks there could be a national outcry, obama meantime tells black fathers constantly to show more responsibility to their women and children!

DENNIS (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:08 PM)

Lynn, Millington / obama is a decent man, but he can't win the general election

MK,MO (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:08 PM)

That is why people like me do not like to listen our country's politics joining hands together to do what ever it takes to put Sen Obama in the peoples house. This is the man you can leave all your wealth with him for a long time and when you come back you will find them the way you kept them at the same place inorderely manner. As George Will from ABC said about Sen Obama, Good morning America President Reagan the 80th all over again. As Pres Reagan used to say something unpopular but it is true and he gets it done because he had a magic thing people follows him. Sen Obama has the same magic and says something unpopular but it is true and he challenge us at a times and people tend to listen to him.

Lee Kim (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:10 PM)

MK,MO....

If Americans thought like you, women would not have the right to vote. We would still be a slave nation, electricity free and under the rule of the British empire.

Time brings about a change, regardless of those who don't want to be an agent of chance it's coming....it always does.

Senator Obama continues to showcase, "Profiles in Courage." Despite others who think pandering is the way to make friends and influence people.

I'm not as cynical as you are, dear. Technically the Democrats have lost the last two elections. In 1992 the only reason Bill Clinton won is because of Ross Perot, Clinton's re-election was against Bob Dole (Bless his heart, I really liked him as the Senator from Kansas but it was just too easy to beat).

Lynn, Millington (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:03 PM)

Gutsy and straight-forward. And more substantive than the rest of the crowd combined. There ya go Sen Clinton... follow that lead, lol.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:22 PM)

Lynn,
You said Sen Obama will not win in general election. I believe he will win in general election very easly by pulling all independents, moderate religeous people and republican with democrats. His bigest challenge is going to be to get nominated from the democratic party because the stablished wish-wasy loser democrats will vote to their fellow coacrach Hillary who will lose in general election. Myself I will vote for republican if Hillary nominated for general.

men of troy (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:29 PM)

I challenge anyone who says obama is a panderer. He went to auto union and told them they had to work harder, making more efficient vehicles. He went to teachers and told them they should get raises based on quality of work, not tenure. That takes guts, real balls.

everaldo jones, tulsa, ok (Sent Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:21 PM)

This is the type of honesty that we want. We want someone willing to tell the truth and also reach out to build the United States of America and not the Divided States of America.

Amos Ajo (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 12:47 AM)

To Mary,Il:

You said "Merit pay for teachers? Consider this scenario. You are trained to teach golf. You got A'a in all classes in both knowledge and technique. You are assigned a group of 20 students. We will pick them randomly off the street. No entry criteria or test. Some may not be athletic or may be physically challenged. You have one hour a day, five days a week to teach them to play. At the end of seven months, your students will play 18 holes. You will be paid based on their scores. Are you willing to try this and have your pay based only on their scores at the end of 18 holes? Next time you think merit pay for teachers is good idea, think of it this way."

I think you are describing a scenario that Senator Obama clearly said is not fair. While he does believe that a merit pay system is a good idea, he does not believe that the current criteria (similar to what you described) is proper or effective.

You seem to have raised a straw-man argument which completely ignores what Senator Obama addressed concerning the subject. In case you just missed it in your initial reading, here it is again:

He said "The most controversial aspect of any discussion of teacher compensation is merit pay,” Obama said, “and I know that folks here object to the idea properly that if you are being measured and paid simply by how the child is doing on a test without taking into account what that child is coming to the school with, ... if it's all based on assessments made on No Child Left Behind, then it's not fair to pay teachers who are pouring their heart out based on some of these arbitrary measures."...He pledged to work with the NEA and teachers' unions to determine a new system for accountability. "What I want to do is work with teachers, and where we can work with teachers to come up with ways to set those kinds of professional standards, then I want to be part of that process,” Obama said. “But I'm not going to do it to you; I'm going to do it with you."

Mary, may I suggest that since you agree with Senator Obama that the current criteria is inadequate, how about a suggestion on a method of measurement that you believe is more effective. If you believe the current system needs to be fixed, help the candidate out by submitting an idea on his website, instead of just raising a complaint.

Alisa, Ga (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 12:55 AM)

Yes, Obama CAN win. Ms Clinton stirs the racial and gender pots in an effort to get votes Obama speaks to worthy and honorable goals: healthcare and education. He does it without scapegoating. Ms Clinton is always targeting persons in her climb to the top. Obama's strength is consistency and integrity. He quietly voted "No" to involving US in Iraq. And he held firm on that issue - there was no waffling. Obama will have my vote!

Puddles Pennsylvania (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 1:22 AM)

I wanted to respond to the stance on merit pay weighting on math and science education.

Educate students to be human beings means preparing students to get good jobs, to be able to make it on their own. I believe it is our responsibility to make sure every child gets a real and honest fair shake at that.

Today we have to think about what kind of economy today's kids will have to compete in 20 years from now. And that means we have to demand quality math and science education, among other things.

I agree with Sen. Obama here in that it isn't inappropriate for us to express that demand with incentives for teachers of these subjects.

We can't say we are educating students to be human beings if we withhold what they need to have a decent job, to make enough to support children of their own, to have dignity.

There's no contradiction in this by preparing today's kids for tomorrow's jobs.

Jeff Morgan, Austin, TX (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 1:50 AM)

In my last comment I realize I implied that all kids are to be expected to prepare for science and engineering jobs, and I want to clear that up.

What higher quality math and science education means is not more drilling of formulas and cramming of more material; it's making these subjects easier to understand and more digestible. It's about focusing more on getting the main ideas that poorly designed standardized testing has discouraged. It's not just for high tech jobs, it's also for being able to have a solid ground on getting what the statistics really mean, and don't mean, in the news. It's about knowing the shape of your money as a curve, a curve that goes up and up more when your saving and investing, and a curve that goes down and down farther when your credit card bills aren't paid. It's about reasoning and critical thinking skills so that political spinsters have less power in misleading you with their messages.

And Mary from Illinois, merit pay can be done wrong and it can be done right, don't assume too fast that doing it at all means that it'll be done wrong. Especially with Obama in charge!

Jeff Morgan, Austin, TX (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 2:12 AM)

Obama is:

• A better reflection of America.

• A breath of fresh air.

• Signifies the end of (or a departure from) this stinking ideologically charged, neoconservative, and racist (?) political system.

• The dawn of 21st century politics

• Sort of a “JFK + Regan reincarnate”

• The (only) KEY to the NEW America-energy independent, fuel efficient vehicles, real affordable health care for all, higher educational standards in the sciences and math and of course the Arts (a key ingredient to be competitive in today’s global community), where teachers’ salaries will commensurate their hard work,...

• The embodiment of true leadership given he was the ONLY voice of reasoning (when he opposed the war in 2002 and suggested further investigation and intelligence analysis - in order to prevent what we're seeing today - while still a state legislator!!!) when there was this façade that Iraq was responsible for 911, though we all know that Iraq was just a scapegoat…Oh and might I add that while Obama exibiting real leadership, (guess what?)Ms. Clinton was busy being a hawk, a ‘bushite’…and pandering

On the issue of "The Black Vote"
Attention: The Black Cocus and Black America

• Ethnic pride, yes, I said “ethnic pride” I know this is a hot button issue and I'm not intending divisiveness either, but folks (black folks especially) this is America and (un)fortunately ‘ethnic pride’ pervades every facet of this society, it is that unwritten rule, that WE ALL know soooo well... Don’t be DISSUADED folks this is America it is real; so if, in the final analysis, 'ethnic pride' can (for once) marshal black folks to act monumentally and do their part in electing one of their own, as opposed to remaining under that slavery-induced spell of self-loath, then I think it'll be worth every sweat and latch that went into building this great nation. 43:1 is better than 44:0.

Let’s look at the campaigns for a minute

From day one (or should I say when the Clinton camp was drafting their “twenty-year project; yes, a twenty-year project had been hatched way before Bill even became the first so-called black president) Hillary was the presumptive front runner, with name recognition and a $10M cash advance. Basically, she had been prenominated well before hand. Barrack came from humble beginnings and in six months he has succeded in crashing her war-chest. And within his first term he has become the 'rainmaker' in the US senate! America is watching as evident in the 32.5M raised. People are putting their money where their mouth is. The msm can do all want, but the American people are wiser than the msm.

Please forgive any typos, thanks

Kuan (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 4:02 AM)

MARY FROM ILLINOIS. In regards to your golf reference...Thats why golf has whats called a handicap that curves your score accordingly. Which is what this article and Obama are talking about. Establish entry points and end points to actually track progress. If you establish a mechanism to determine "handicap" upon entry to schooling, when completed you will be able to track prgress and institute merit pay. Brilliant I think, everyone has talked about merit pay but never with entry points to establish where the student began.

Gabriel Shepherd, Las Vegas NV (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 5:50 AM)

I'm glad to hear a good Republican idea from Senator Obama.

Bush Republican (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 7:20 AM)

Lynn, Millington / edwards can win the general election, obama nor hillary can,dear. I just hate to see the dems put rudy in office when it is avoidable, I am looking at the big picture, we can't afford to let another repub in come 08, edwards has the best shot

MK,MO (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 8:53 AM)

MK in MO, I have no idea why you continuously say OBAMA can't win the general election , but Hillary or Edwards can. Do you pay any attention to what is written on this blog? I don't have the number's, but just by looking at the Many entry's ( lot's of newer entry's, I may add)I would guess that Obama has @ least 60%. I am a white male, & Obama has MY vote, ( Not Hillary or Edwards)because he is just what this country needs @ this time. With Hillary or Edwards, corparate america will continue the ruination of our USA. Are'nt you sick of corparate america? I am & from reading a lot, I think alot more than me are sick of it also. It was written on another entry from today that said, the MSM can write all it want's about Hillary, the masses are way ahead of them on this issue. No more bush,clinton,bush,clinton, WE'RE ALL SICK OFEM.Our country has Leader's beyond this bunch & the masses will elect them. "DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER"

rick,ky (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 10:04 AM)

rick,ky, If you payed attention to this blog, you would know that MK,MO is not saying Hillary can win. And I agree that only Edwards can.

Ollie frenchburg ky (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 10:27 AM)

It's so refreshing to hear Obama speak. As a history buff it's great to see his kind again. I really enjoyed a comment of his about ethics in his administration, he said, "...working in an Obama administration doesn't have anything to do with your former employer, your future employer or your bank account. It's about serving your country." Wouldn't it be great to have public officials who have the public in their best interest again? 01.20.09 here we come

Charles Kushner, Chicago, IL (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 10:41 AM)

Edwards chances may have taken their biggest hit four years ago, when they two kids calling themselves "jib jab" portrayed him in a speedo. Most everyone with a computer got those videos, and the pretty boy impression is a tough one to play down.

Not fair and certainly not as important as ideas and positions, but those kind of perceptions are part of democracy. To walk down that tangent, its precisely why the founding fathers didn't set us up as a pure democracy. They didn't completely trust voters, who might make decisions on issues like the cost of one's haircut.

There's two different discussions here. One is whether Edwards has the right ideas and positions for the job. The other is whether he's running an effecive campaign to get there.

This was my point on a previous thread. He let this haircut thing happen. He could have gone to the Hair Cuttery, and actually looking less perfect may have been a plus for him. But he didn't. And I suppose other candidates don't either, but they aren't tagged with the pretty boy perception. An effective campaign recognizes its bad perceptions and certainly tries to avoid reinforcing them.

As for Edwards being the only Democrat who can win the general, actually I think Obama would be a much stronger candidate than Edwards in the November election. I see two factors being the most significant in the general election. One is not hyper-energizing your opponents. The other is winning independents. From what I've seen so far, Obama would be a very effective nominee. He inspires. So far he's avoided pandering. He seems to actually respect the individuals on the other side of the aisle while not compromising his own views. There's a reason people are opening their checkbooks for him.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 10:53 AM)

The more I read and hear of Obama the more I'm convinced that he is the one to lead us back from the brink of this precipice that we're staring into.

No Illusions, Somewhere,Virginia (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 11:12 AM)

Obama is wrong just like the other idiots in politics..This is just another measure put forth to benefit yet again the overpaid salaries of teachers and the administrations that run the lousy education system. I have been asked for the last 35 years to keep giving more and more of my property tax dollars to a poorly ran and liberal dominated education system. What needs to be done is to federalize teachers and eliminate the teachers union. Then give an education voucher that a parent can use to enroll their children into the Public or Private school of their choosing. That school will then receive the federal dollars. Until there is equal federal funding for non public schools the public schools and the teachers union will maintain the monopoly of a failed education system. It has been proven that increased pay and funds for schools do NOT result in a better education.

Steven P., Phoenix, AZ. (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 11:46 AM)

Obama is no different then the other politicial scumbags in polotics. This is just another measure put forth to benefit yet again the overpaid salaries of teachers and the administrations that run the lousy education system. I have been asked for the last 35 years to keep giving more and more of my property tax dollars to a poorly ran and liberal dominated education system. What needs to be done is to federalize teachers and eliminate the teachers union. Then give an education voucher that a parent can use to enroll their children into the Public or Private school of their choosing. That school will then receive the federal dollars. Until there is equal federal funding for non public schools the public schools and the teachers union will maintain the monopoly of a failed education system. It has been proven that increased pay and funds for schools do NOT result in a better education.

Steve P., Phoenix, AZ. (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 12:00 PM)

In Texas, merit pay has led to students being placed in groups. high,medium,low and God help you if you get the lowest group. There is no one that wants to excel or even try. These are the worst behavior problems so imagine having whole classes like that. Administrators like it because they can just blame the teacher instead of leveled setting. Principals give the best classes to their buddies who will in turn receive the merit pay while great 20 year teachers with all the problem kids look incompetent. I know teachers with numerous awards but given an at risk class quit teaching because of the stress!This is the truth,I've been there and never want to go back.Merit pay is a red herring to destroy public education. public education works but the student gets out of it the amount of work they put into it.So Sen. Obama you have lost me. end of story!

leon houston tx (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 12:11 PM)

Hmmm. Just because merit pay led to group placement in Texas means that it would anywhere else? I don't see the logic there.

Bottom line is that most of our country works on a merit pay system. There's an almost infinite number of ways to do that, and none are foolproof, but almost always where we have incentives to do well, we have people doing well.

If I have any objection with Obama's comments, its that I'm not sure I want the president to be involved. I think its probably something best left to individual school districts, or maybe the state level. But we've kinda already reached that fork in the road and somehow or other decided that the federal government is a player in schools.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 1:31 PM)

Steve P, your plan is interesting but does it guarantee equal funding to all schools? Probably not, which then sets up de facto segregation based on where students are sent. There should not be government funding for private education as it flys in the face of 220 years of government policy starting with the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 for all you people who slept through history in high school. There was also the land grant colleges in the 1800s.

It really frosts me to see teachers as the whipping boy (or person) for all of society's ills. Teachers, after going through 4 years of college then start at a payrate that most of thegeneral public wouldn't accept. Then they are expected to get their masters in a specific period of time which will secure them a paltry pay raise and after 20 years they might make a decent salary. Meanwhile, they are expected to be in the classroom, teachers, social workers, police,displinarians (but not too much as to not to violate little Johnny's or Mary's civil rights,)health teachers, lawyers, etc. while using their own money to purchase school supplies because there is not enough money in the budget and so on. Then there is the teacher/student ratio which is misleading as the administrators are counted as teachers even though they don't teach. Adminstrators negotiate fat salary contracts with the board, wherein the teacher is told this is your salary, take or leave it it. No other professional I know is treated this way.

By the way, I am not a teacher nor is anyone in my family. I have completed a satisfying 30 year career in corporate America, but I am seriously considering dusting off my teaching credentials to teach American history in high schoool and I am not doing it for the money. The historian David McCullough once said that we are rasing generations of historical illiterates that do not know what it means to be a citizen of this country. I would like to do my part to change that.

Dave, AZ (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 2:13 PM)

Paul. The logic is it will be human nature for the principal, the only person who holds the purse strings, to reward his buddies with G/T students and merit pay. Human nature is universal!This is why there must always be checks and balances as you can see what happens when one person has all the power. See America now compared to ten years ago. case closed! no one should have the stress of at risk classes while others just coast because their students learn by teaching themselves. been there,seen it!

leon (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 3:50 PM)

Thank you Dave from Az. I have witnessed the example you listed. A school district decided to do " neighborhood schools" guess what? They now have five 80-90 percent white schools and one school with 80-90 percent Hispanic. Simply because of the the setups of the neighborhoods. and thank you for your defense.Teachers' main problems these days are our enemies are too strong and our friends are too weak. People that think unions have so much power are living in a dream world.Texas does not even allow real unions. We have "organizations". I was a construction foreman for 20 years before deciding to return to my first love of teaching. I was never treated so badly in construction.Since teaching again, I have been hit, cursed at by parent and student while administrator just sat by, threatened and had my truck keyed. Welcome to a teacher's world, while using my own money to buy supplies. just a glutton for punishment!

leon houston tx (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 4:02 PM)

Leon, I just asked a question on another thread and thought I'd get your answer to it. Would you be for an incentive system if it could be implemented fairly?

Also, sorry to hear about the troubles you've had as a teacher, and I know its not just you. Never said you were working an easy job.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 4:26 PM)

I have only taught in two states so I can't speak for all but I just don't know how it can be fairly justified. There are still parishes in Lousiana where teachers have to draw food stamps just to teach.When I left, several of the northern parishes were at 14000 a year.This was only ten years ago.I have had as high as 94% passing rates before but told that was not good enough.Who's to say that a teacher in Maine is doing a better job than a teacher in Louisiana teaching the same grade and subject? In education there are too many variables that cannot be measured. Alot of jobs in our nation pay by years of experience.Almost all the petrochemical positions do with step raises. I don't mean to gripe, but this is my life and politicians should not use livelihoods as political footballs. you guys have a great weekend!

leon houston tx (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 5:29 PM)

Leon, Houston, god blessyou. Been there, done that.
Our educational system is a mess and it seems like the dirty little secret none of the politicians can acknowledge. The challeneges public school teachers face is immense. Its a broken system, ask the people who know. Even in Maine, there are kids falling through the cracks...its appaling, trust me.

Amy B Portand, Maine (Sent Saturday, July 07, 2007 4:23 PM)

Hmmm. So we just let the schools continue on as they are, with - if I'm understanding your posts, Leon - the liklihood that teachers who are beat down by the system and sometimes their own students simply hanging on for additional years, knowing that mere continuance is the only path to better compensation?

I don't know. That just doesn't sound like a good recipe. I have to admit that I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this. My son goes to a Catholic parish school, which I'm happy with, so I haven't focused much on public education. But now as I do think about it a little, I'm thinking what you are describing is a path in which failure ought to be predictable.

I keep hearing how our students test so poorly against the students from other industrialized nations, and a few third world nations. I wonder what those other countries do? Certainly they can't be spending as much per student. Before posting this I was poking around my county government's website. We spend about $13,000 per student per year (a whole lot more than I pay for Catholic school).

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Monday, July 09, 2007 8:40 AM)

Yes, he is pandering to the Business Roundtable and adopting their language and views on education. He is caving in to political pressure, whether you care to see it or not. BAAA! BAAA! BAAA! He lost my vote as soon as he started parroting the business roundtable agenda. BYE BYE OBAMA!

marcia (Sent Saturday, July 14, 2007 3:57 PM)

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