change course and use common sense and intellegence and bring the troops home NOW.  The iraq govt. says it can take care of itself without US troops so let them.  al queda uses iraq for a training ground to attack us at home while recruiting members using the tactic of if the US controls iraq which arab contry will bush attack next .  IMPEACHBUSH.ORG and cheney too.

This entire political "Iraq War Waltz", will be viewed with maximum contempt in years to come, by the GI's who survive that war.

The whole Al-Quida launching pad from Iraq to the US argument is wearing thin.  Sure they are there, but just how do you think they are getting here to the US...in the luggage of our soldiers coming home?  Stop the scare tactics Rove, Rush and Hannity.  We have grown extremely sceptical of this tactic.  Funny how Rove gets a new scare tactic report out as more and more Repugs jump ship & W hits all time low approval numbers.

" Givem Hell Harry". " DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER".

From the blog: "...they all embrace one common denominator: changing the mission from combat to counterterrorism, protection of personnel, and training of Iraqis."

I thought that mission change happened four years ago, when the Iraqi army rolled over. Haven't we been doing counterterrorism and training of Iraqi army and police since?

Our soldiers are dying, and these are the best solutions our congress can come up with?! Pull out, change mission definition, plan on planning to change mission definition. Ugh!
We need a discourse on viable solutions like the Biden-Gelb plan, and versions there-of. Realizing that the Bush policy will fail, the ineptitude of the congress to get to anything solved infuriates me (Dem or Rep).

Keep chippin'.....keep reminding the voter's about their constituents' listening abilities.

Congress! Cancel your august recess! There are men in the field dying under an incompetent president! You don't deserve a month off any more than the Iraqi Parliament deserves the summer off! ALL of you people should be ashamed to take any time off while this disaster is occurring. God Damn you.

The only way the dunce in chief will ever change course is to IMPEACH BUSH/CHENEY

The Congress nor the Senate will have the tools to force Republicans to abandon their position unless we, the voters, overwhelm their offices (Republicans) with requests that they change their position and support a timeline. The difference between this war and say Nam is that there was a draft then and therefore everyone had a stake. Now there is no youth involvement because they can go unscathed.

Let's see now, the Iraqi Parlement is going forward with a plan to take a 1 month vacation/recess this December,while our troops are dieing on their streets.What does everyone think about this?

I guess Domino's pizza will really be busy tonight.  No doze and black coffee for the republicans if you please!  If I knew there were going to be peaceniks at these places, and I was DEA, I would walk my drug dog thru the crowd and see if there was any good grass among the Moveon.org folks.  Harry Reid, must have been a clown once at Circus Circus.  Thinks now he is a ringmaster.

Seems when something Komrade Bush wants something, a straight up and down vote is called for by the republicans, so lets have a straight up and down vote!

Remember election time, we the people will remember. What a bunch of whips. Get the men and women out and back home.

Gonna be mighty stinky in there with all the Porta-Potties in place. No showers too as a bonus. MMMMM... oh how yummy! That oughta be a big enough incentive for the bums to get this vote completed.

Jerry, you're on s**thouse patrol this evening.

How do the "commanders on the ground" distinquish between all of these missions? The only way to limit our mission in Iraq is to limit the number of troops. But, if you limit the number of troops, you limit the force protection. Any student of military history knows that, for any mission, you use the most force possible which helps to reduce casualties. The only recourse is to change the mission...again...but this time the change would be to end the mission. Drawing down forces just puts the remaining troops in greater risk. I shudder to think about that lone soldier or two embedded with Iraqi troops, or that lonely outpost with a handful of troops. These proposals to limit the mission and limit the number of troops are just a recipe for disaster. It's time to get them all out.

If we had not gone into Iraq and just concentrate on Afghanistan, Al-Quida would NOT be in IRAQ.  They would be killing us in Afghanistan ans Saddam would still be free to fill up mass graves.  And if we had never gone to Afghanistan, they would have plenty of training camps still there.  
They do not want to take over lands, they are not fighting to protect what is theirs.  They want us all dead WHERE EVER they can find us and no amount of freedom, democracy in their lands or anything else is going to stop them.  They want all non radical Muslims dead.  So we may as well bring our troops home so they can train to fight them here from our front yards.

The debate has shifted from 'should' we to 'how do we' get out of Iraq. We are making progress.  Sadly, we will screw up our withdrawl just as badly as we have screwed up the occupation. I can't help but remember all of the heliocopters being pushed overboard, tanks, troop carriers, airfields, docks (Cam Rahn Bay), and all of the other billions of dollars worth of infrastrucutre and material we left behind when we left Viet Nam.  I suppose I should get mentally prepared for deju vu and for videos of Shi'a, Sunnis and Kurds using our equipment to kill each other. And to think that Bill Kristol and other neo cons actually believe that history will be kind to George Bush.  Amazing.

IRAQI PARLEMENT WILL TAKE A 1 MONTH VACATION/RECESS IN DECEMBER, WHILE THE US TROOPS DIE IN THEIR STREETS. ASK GEORGE BUSH ABOUT THIS. THIS IS A "FACT".

I am a retired U.S. Navy officer.  My oath of commission clearly required me to obey the orders of the officers appointed above me.  This same oath applies to all general and flag officers in the armed forces.  So to have numbnuts W say he doesn't want anyone in Congress (whom these officers were confirmed by) to dictate their mission is ridiculous.  Congress and the President are the bosses of our nation's military, so stop with the scare tactics.  CINC for W stands Clueless in Command.  I am surprised more people, especially retirees and so-called military analysts, haven't called out W for this fallacy.  Throughout our history no Congress or President has micromanaged operational details of the military.  But in their correct analysis and conduct of their office, they have given the military general operating principles.

Steve: first of all you do not sound like a retired naval officer. Those statements come right off of The Center for American Progress website. Evidently you are the one clueless thinking you can just inject your opinion on something you havent experienced and not get it slapped back in your face. We retiree's as you say, go by a thing called "loyalty" no matter what the general population thinks. It is also evident you had none of this while you were in. All you did was earn a paycheck. I have served under many presidents of both parties and have not said one cruel thing about neither in 24 yrs and I never will. Now I didnt agree with some of Clinton's ideas but I never called him out of his name. I never sided up with the rest of the boys to bash him as you do Bush. Show some damn respect for the uniform you claim to have worn once.

inthemiddletexas, I ask once again, are we veterans who speak against the dunce in chief not respecting the uniform that we wore.  Remember the part of the oath that says against foreign and domestic enemies?

Sorry, IntheMiddle, but 'loyalty' is such a crock. That's Bush's 'strong point' - as in putting loyalty above everything else - and it has resulted in absolute incompetence. The problem with you 'loyaltists' is that you allow some ridiculous 'social more' garbage to override what's REALLY important - the truth.

Loyalty is a dangerous thing and history has plenty of examples to prove it.

Amen Terry.  I spent too many years in service to be bothered by wing-nuts.  This CINC disrespects all vets with his nonsense.

IntheMiddle-What gives you the right to critize Steve or anyone else in the military/civilian who has a different opinion than you.  Respect is earned. THE SHRUB IS A PILE OF DUNG!!!!!You need to go back to school and enroll in civics class about what a democracy is. You were and remain a sadistic jerk and recieves some perverse pleasure in bullying others...I suggest you go back and continue the failed policy OF YOUR COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

Juan: I guess that makes you a pompass asshole. Besides Who TF asked you. Matter of fact I have a degree in Sports Medicine, so your not the only one on here that has been to school. You always bring up education like you have cornered the market. You just remember "IT WAS THE SOLDIER THAT GIVE YOU FREEDOM OF SPEECH" not the press. If it weren't for men like me, you would not be on a damn blog disrespecting the POTUS. Remember that chump.

first dictators are what the united sttes has dealt with throughout history right now you are friends with momo kadafi libyas murder king filling his rape rooms and mass graves with people you dont deem worthy of saving with your capitalist democraties no money in it? next do you think that general patreus will admit that he has failed in sept. not a chance do you think tommy franks cared what happened to the army when he went to work for the defence industy ? patreus own doctrine calls for a 6 to 1 ratio soldiers to insurgent we are not close to that so how can he make a in the insugency that he is an expert on much like powell and his doctrine it went by the wayside SHINSHECY 500000 troops so much for listening to generals

Next time Cindy Sheehan or the Code Pink crowd tries to tell you that the Democratic Majority in congress isn't doing anything to get us out of Iraq, remind em' of this date and the fact that repuibliCANTS are filibustering Senate legislation which could end the war!
Remind em' that the Democratic Majority in The House of Representatives already passed a withdrawal measure, and that Bush himself was the one who veto'ed the original resolution with "timelines" included in it.
We need to be united, not divided by "extremeism," in our efforts to end this war.
I don't know about you folks. But, I see one political party trying to get us out of Iraq, and the other political party trying to keep us there.
It seems to me that if we want this thing to end anytime soon, we need to support The Democrats and protest against CANTservatives and republiCANTS who are hell bent on "staying the course," even it means that the ship runs aground.

inthemiddle it sounds like you were in the wrong army by 50 years the nazis called they want thier leader back if it was up to you you would burn that pesky constitution using the bill of rights and the american flag to start the fire with how hard is it not to kill all of  liberals maybe then you could acully put a uniform on and do what you claim THAT YOU WANT TO DO FIGHT IN IRAQ  KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK REMEMBER I LOVE U  IT SOUND AS IF YOU WOULDkill all that disagree BUT RETIRED RIGHT BEFORE MISSION ACCOMPLLISED HOWS TOMMY FRANKS DOING

A SUCESSFUL MISSION ACCOMPLISHED IN KOSOVO WOULNT GIVE MUCH TO BITCH ABOUT HUH

IntheMiddle-What gives you the right to critize Steve or anyone else in the military/civilian who has a different opinion than you. ***

Here's what gives 'em the right.  Second one is included because you types seem to have a lot of trouble with that one too.  And of course, gracious thanks to MSNBC for providing the forum to exercise the right!!

Numero Ono:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

And just for fun, the second:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Is that so hard to understand?

IntheMiddle:
rough crowd, eh?
Unfortunately, I was mistaken in a previous blog:
it's not 1973,
it's 1860 all over again, when it should be 1942.

I saw a report about Iraq on the MSN website this week-end. General Odieum , in bagdad, said it would take til about April to secure the neighborhoods and have Iraqi forces in place. Then, they would have to make sure the neighborhoods stayed secure. He anticipated that would take a decade.
So, I interpret from that article that the September report will ask for more time. And that General is indicating that the success of the mission will take 10 more years.
I wonder how the report will be presented to the American public.PR will be key to put this in a positive light.(I would call it spin)

Not so fast Steve[Iowa]. Last night,libertarian conservative Hugh Hewitt,[who runs the conservative weblog POWERLINE],ran an openmike session on his NYC-based radio show asking veterans and combat soldiers to call in. The parade of soldiers displayed nothing but contempt for Reid[''what the f..k does Reid know?" said one angered soldier],and Pelosi[''who made her General?'']. This weekend,a Iraq-Vets group called Veterans For Freedom,will march on Capitol Hill to express their displeasure with the Pelosis and Reids of the world. This will be live-fed on the PAJAMAS MEDIA website.
              Liberals made hay over the the junta of generals who expressed their admittedly correct viewpoint that the Iraq War was going in the wrong direction based upon the failure to ''contain and hold'', which was evidenced in a earlier FRONTLINE documentary aired last month on PBS. These testimonies were used by Reid and Pelosi as well as other war critics as a bludgeon with which to bash Bush.
            Yet the tables have now turned. Now it is Democrats who are heedless to the flatly-delivered opinions of Iraqs top generals as well as its brigade/regimental-level commanders that the ''Surge''is working beyond expectations. The once dreaded ''Sunni Triangle''is being systematically cleared of enemy and al Qaeda presence and influence. A parade of commanders including Gens.Pace,Lynch,Huggins,Gaskin,Petraeus[whose comments were dishonestly twisted by visiting Democrat Rep.Reed[NY],Odivedo,McMasters,and others are seeing the surge working and are standing by its patently successful results.
             The lying Associated Press, which has been buffeted by a string of phony or faulty reportage coming from Iraq [including a report two weeks ago of another of these ''massacres'',which was later retracted by The New York Times,Washington Post,CNN,and CBS],and in last summers Lebanon War as well, was again called on the carpet for its false reportage of an al Qaeda ''stronghold''in Ramadi,which had an angered Michael Yon,former Green Beret and reporter now embedded with the Marines inside of Ramadi,reminding the AP that he and the Marines were walking around the city right now with no resistance whatever as the al Qaeda threat had been ''destroyed'',with citizens again shopping and hanging out at favoured locations in large groups. Yon and his friend Bill Roggio, also reporting from Iraq along with US Marine/Army Mil-blogs are now raising the alarm that that the MSM is not merely being unfactual, but they are abetting lying by their dubious usage of Arab stringers which may or may not be feeding propaganda from al Qaeda. [The New York Times,Associated Press,and REUTERS all use Arab stringers[or ''correspondants''].
                 A few days ago, the Marines launched Operation ITHACA inside the Dialya River valley in the Sunni Triangle trapping and destroying scores of al Qaeda. Yet nearly no mention of this highly successful operation has been carried anywhere in the MSM nearly one week later. Meanwhile,while Speaker Pelosi can drink tea with murderous dictators in Syria who lie through their teeth while sending even more arms to HEZBOLLAH in Lebanon where they are being used at this moment against UNFIL ''peacekeepers'', she refuses to meet with General Petraeus,for any reason. This is patently stupid and ignorant on her portion as well as Reids,in his capacity as Senate leader.
            Murthas Haditha conspiricy is falling apart as we speak. UN Secretary General Ki-Ban Moon is forcefully exhorting that there be no immediate withdrawl from Iraq. [this is the same body that the Democrats are demanding that we as a nation rely upon for their judgement. It has been made in the form of the SG]. Harry Reid has so angered ABC reporters that they will continue to pester him until Reid gives straight answers to their questions regarding Iraq. Hamilton[D] and Baker[R],the Chairs of the original Iraq Study Group are aghast at what the Reids and Pelosis are pulling and have forcefully come out four-square against their machinations urging both of them to meet with Gen.Petraeus.
                The results on the ground as well as what the soldiers themselves are saying are telling a vastly differant account than the one being peddled by the Democrats and a few of their GOP compadres. Indeed,in last weeks House retreat vote, more Democrats crossed lines to vote against withdrawl than GOPers did in supporting it sending the bill down to defeat. This new ploy by Reid has been dubbed by his own aides,''No Sleep Until We Retreat'' and in no way will garner the 60 votes needed for passage,let alone override veto.
             Contraction has begun in Iraq due to this surge. The ''clear and hold''strategy,so successfully evidenced in all of our wars including that of Vietnam [The NVA was utterly destroyed at Hue and did not recover until our own retreat],will force the jihadists back upon Baghdad. The ability of American and other coalition troops to hold major areas of the country while bringing on board tribal clans opposed to al Qaeda [made up of both Shias and Sunnis], will have the effect of blocking the schemes of both radical groups,al Qaeda for the Sunnis and the Medhi Army for the Shias. In areas ''cleared and held'' there will be no place left for retreat and as in the Dialya Valley,they will be decimated piecemeal. All that stands in the way is the venal attributes of the Democrat Party who will use this war in order to score political points for the next election. In this,they are base hypocrites,as they once accused Bush of ''using the dead of 9/11''to score points of his own. Worse,they have virtually no plan.None at all save that of Biden, who clings to his as a drowning man clings to a lifering, forgetting that our withdrawl will not allow his ''partition''to survive the next days sundown.

This  dovetails with Secratary Gates stating ,a couple of months ago, that he envisions a South Korea type plan for Iraq.

I was post-noting my original post.

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