Obama and sex ed for kids

Posted: Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:04 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Democrats, Republicans, 2008

From NBC's Mark Murray
Well, we can safely say that this is a new topic in this presidential race... Yesterday's ABC report that Obama favors age-appropriate sex education for even kindergarten students has received a fair amount of play. Romney, in fact, used it to criticize Obama in a speech he gave yesterday. "I was shocked to hear that he thinks we need sex education in kindergarten," Romney said. "I don't think that's a problem. I don't think that's a need." Romney's campaign even put those remarks on YouTube.

But it seems Romney's criticism might be a bit overblown. The Obama campaign gave this statement to CBN's David Brody: "Barack Obama supports sensible, community-driven education for children because, among other things, he believes it could help protect them from pedophiles. A child's knowledge of the difference between appropriate and inappropriate touching is crucial to keeping them safe from predators."

Brody's analysis: "Obama doesn't want to hand out condoms to five year olds. He doesn't want cucumber demonstrations as part of show and tell. The legitimate reasonable discussion here is whether the federal government and/or local school boards should get involved in providing these five year olds information about inappropriate touching or should it be left up to families only."

Obama spokesman Bill Burton tells First Read: "You can teach a kid about what's appropriate and not appropriate to protect them from predators out there." In addition, he issued a document showing that the Oregon Department of Education has guidelines for sex education for children in grades K-3 (which includes understanding the difference between a good touch and a bad touch), and that the Sexuality Information And Education Council of the United States has curriculum for those in kindergarten.

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Comments

How much of a problem "inappropriate touching" really is in kindergarten that Obama would include that in his speech?

Yiannis, Baltimore, MD (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:23 AM)

That is how you tackle smear tactics, fight it with sense and logic. To bad Romney resorted to simple minded/wiseguy remarks that is quite typical of candidates these days, it came back to bite him.

CJ (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:25 AM)

Yiannis are you serious...molestation from relatives and family associates happen every day. He was addressing a topic that was well within the domain of the group he was addressing.

CJ (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:30 AM)

Thank you for posting this information, Chuck! I really appreciate the way YOU are treating Senator Obama. Even though I truly believe the mainstream media is doing it's best to push Hillary Clinton on us as the Democratic nominee. David Brody is definitely one of the good guys. He has ALWAYS been the fairest journalist of them all, who is why he is not a member of the mainstream media, and he gets it. I'm a Christian semi-conservative who is a fan of Reverend Pat Robertson's 700 club and I'm a supporter of Senator Obama's Presidential push. Yes, these two can co-exist! If anyone watched Anderson Cooper (I love this guy) last night one of the main members of the Christian Conservative moment talked about the Evangelical vote. He said that if Ruby is the Republican nominee the Evangelicals might look to the Democrats because alot of Evangelicals are concerned about the Environment and Racial unity. That sounds like Evangelicals for Obama to me.

Thanks again for posting this information.

Lorraine, Tennessee (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:36 AM)

CJ it's an honest question. I don't know how much difference teaching a 5 year about inappropriate touching in kindergarten would make if we are talking about molestation.

Yiannis, Baltimore, MD (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:51 AM)

Pre-school teachers in Illinois are taught to be aware of the signs that indicate a child could be a victim of molestation and/or physical abuse. Over a ten year period my boss reported several suspiciuos incidents to DCFS and she was right each time. And that's only what we noticed at one school in one small town.

Mel, Illinois (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:53 AM)

Yiannis,it is a concern. I worked in a kindergarten class for a year, and yes, the amount of inappropriate behavior, although infrequent, was still there. I agree that some introduction to appropriate/inappropriate touch is necessary even as young as kindergarten. I would be very pleased with a curriculum that is age-appropriate in public schools dealing with sex education, especially since "sex ed" deals with all reproductive functions and contact thereof, not just the act of copulation.

Barbara, Phoenix AZ (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:56 AM)

Thank you for posting this information, Chuck! I really appreciate the way YOU are treating Senator Obama. Even though I truly believe the mainstream media is doing it's best to push Hillary Clinton on us as the Democratic nominee. David Brody is definitely one of the good guys. He has ALWAYS been the fairest journalist of them all, which is why he is not a member of the mainstream media, and he gets it, and reports the TRUTH. I'm a Christian semi-conservative who is a fan of Reverend Pat Robertson and his 700 Club and I'm a supporter of Senator Obama's Presidential push. Yes, I am and these can co-exist! If anyone watched Anderson Cooper (I love this guy) last night one of the main members of the Christian Conservative movement talked about the Evangelical vote. He said that if Ruby is the Republican nominee the Evangelicals might look to the Democrats because alot of Evangelicals are concerned about the Environment and Racial unity. That sounds like Evangelicals for Obama to me.

Thanks again for posting this information.

PS...I hate typos! Thanks for reposting this for me

Lorraine, Tennessee (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:56 AM)

Once again Obama responds to criticism with logic, intelligence and class. Too bad those qualities have been missing in US politics for awhile.

Robert Catalano, Salem, OR (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:56 AM)

This will be the first real test to see if the Obama campaign has what it takes. The punditocracy and talk radio will do everything in their power to cry that Obama wants to teach kindergartners about sex regardless of your personal family values. The reality is that children desperately need to know the difference between touching that is OK and touching that isn't. If the campaign can make the wingnuts look as crazy as they are then Obama is well on his way to being a serious candidate. If not Dems need to look really hard at the "electability" question.

John B, Des Moines, IA (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:58 AM)

Thank you Lorraine. The image portrayed in the media over the past decade or more has made some organized religion's involvement in politics look more like an organized crime operation than the church that Christ was sent to establish.

Phil Viet Vet, Pearblossom, CA (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:59 AM)

I was wincing and about to post how I thought this was a mistake by the Obama campaign. Then I read the rest, and the explanation makes it fine, much like the incentive pay for teachers.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:00 PM)

Obama supporters, quit the BS, take off your rose-colored glasses, and admit the truth: talking about sex education for kidergartners in the middle of a presidential campaign is dumb.

Joe, Dc (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:01 PM)

I can;'t believe these poeple and Drudge take stuff so out of context knowing its not true. Obama was responding to an accusation by alan keyes taking the exact same idea of teaching kindergardners to be aware of molestation and claiming "Obama wants to teach kindergardners about sex!". Apparently the right wingers are so willing to jump at anything before even reading what was said. Too bad the people Romney is speaking to in that video won't even bother to look up the facts and will instead just take his word for it.

jed (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:05 PM)

Yiannis, if just one child is saved from molestation because he was able to discern inappropriate touching, it's well worth it. And how could educating the children hurt?

Jamie, Elmwood Park, IL (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:06 PM)

This is why I love Senator Obama, he is a thinking man. And though that may not play so great for sound bites for the talking heads to feed on. It shows that unlike a lot of candidates he actually has an opinion that has been formulated and not a script on how to pander.

Alex, Detroit (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:08 PM)

I'm sure we can now expect a flip-flop from Romney and an over-produced ad about inappropriate touching of children in Peggy Noonan's Dirty Ocean.

A sensible and straightforward explanation from Obama's camp. Well done.

Joe Justice (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:11 PM)

I think there was no better response than to notify the CBN of all places...when was the last time you heard a Democratic candidate address them on a campaign? And it was done in a legit way that spurs reasoned debate.

CJ (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:14 PM)

Finally, a candidate that thinks just like me!!

Joycelyn Elders (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:16 PM)

I bet you the catholic schools never taught their kids about inappropriate vs appropriate touching ...instead they encouraged their kids to become alter boys ... I'm sure Cardinal Mahoney is regretting that cirriculum. Better yet ..lets follow in the steps of the GOP and assign someone like Mark Foley to head up the Washington Page Program.

Ricardo in California (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:17 PM)

You are welcome, Phil :)

Please don't believe that lie. Where did Dr. King so his last speech? In the pulpit of the historic Mason Temple which is the headquarters of the Churches of God in Christ. Where did the Civil Rights Movement start? In the pulpit.

Psalms 127:1 tells us if God doesn't watch the city the watchmen, watch but in vain. I'm convinced that if we simply give God, His due, our Country will be Blessed beyond belief. We know some of our fellow Americans are believers (that’s okay) but those of us who are must take a stand. This is why I'm supporting Senator Obama, he is a Christian and he is respectful of all Faiths or those who don't have a Faith in our beautiful Country.

I love Reverend Robertson, I always have, I believe he is a Conversative Christian who simply was the best for our Country. I’m fond of Focus of the Family founder, James Dobson too, he has a place in this debate and I would like to hear more from him.

I believe Senator Obama will get alot of Evangelical votes in the General Election.

Lorraine, Tennessee (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:19 PM)

Way to go Mark and First Read. Thanks for the context, for those who needed it.

Lyn, Silver Spring, MD (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:20 PM)

Yiannis,

You live in Baltimore, a City with one of the highest rates of childe abuse and neglect, and you don't know the answer to your own question? When do you think child abuse starts...at the age of consent? MSNBC should not only be taking Romney to task for distorting Senator Obama's message, they should be taking its own resident bigot, Joe Scarborough, to task fo reporting the same distorted information on his show this morning. Senator Obama, in responding to a question at the Planned Parenthood Convention about early sex education in schools yesterday, reflected on his Senate race when his crazy Republican opponent accused him of wanting to teach explicit sex education to 5-year-olds. Which is a complete lie! When he was the head of the IL state Health and Human Services Committee, he proposed that teachers, with the input of local communities, come up with a science based--but age appropriate-answer to the question most kids ask, "where do babies come from?" rather than lying to them and telling them they come from storks. Additionally, given the growing rate of molestion, he says, like most reasonable minded people, it's imperative that kids even as young as 4 or 5 be able to recognize inappropriate touching and know to report it--before its too late!

Dee of VA (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:25 PM)

Jed, the right wingers aren't concerned with facts or research. They have the answers to all the world's problems....just blame Bill and all becomes well in their universe. Right, Jerry??

The Edge, Macon, Ga (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:28 PM)

When government enters your home AGAIN, kick them out and lock the door.

Tina Bensfield Goodyear Az. (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:38 PM)

Ricardo - not true. My son is in Catholic School. In our diocese, sex ed starts in kindergarten. I was pretty suprised to hear this, but when I saw the curriculum, much like when I heard Obama's explanation, it was fine. And as they grow older and the conversation turns to something we'd actually recognize as sex ed, as you can imagine it has a strong abstinence flavor in my son's school. But it is age appropriate all the way through, from what I can tell.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:39 PM)

I hope Joe Scarborough didn't directly quote Romney and not objectively look at what Obama said. I really repsect him and I didn't catch his show this morning. Chuck and Todd I encourage you to contact Joe about an editorial correction if that is true.

CJ (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:40 PM)

"Jed, the right wingers aren't concerned with facts or research. They have the answers to all the world's problems..."

That's right. They are not like us at all. We got the facts and research on our side. We are the ones with the answers. There needs to be no more discussion.

Al "Global Warmer in Chief" Gore (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:45 PM)

Dee, my question was whether talking to 5-year olds about inappropriate touching will make a difference to those kids likely to be molested. It's a pragmatic question in no need for preaching to the choir type answers.

In principle I think it's better to address the culprit before the crime happens rather than poison every child's brain about touch. Can a 5 year old tell?

What about those who become fearful of any touch even though they had nothing done to them? I think appropriate touch is very important for a family and have known people who are emotionally dysfunctional because their parents never hugged them after a young age.

In a society with imperfect beings there will be some that get abused no matter what rules and regulations one puts in. Then again it really depends on how much of a problem this really is, hence my question.

Again I would much rather treat the culprit to correct a problem than teach a possible victim to be fearful of everyone who touches him or her. And I'm sure there's a lot of room for confusion in a 5 year old's brain.

Yiannis, Baltimore, MD (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:47 PM)

It's just good sense to explain to children the difference between appropriate and inappropriate touching. How else are they supposed to know? This is particularly true considering the high proportion of child sex abuse victims that are molested by someone they trust, i.e. family member, friend of the family, who is likely telling them that it is okay. Kids in that situation need to know that, contrary to what their abuser says, it is not okay and they should tell someone.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:50 PM)

Paul given the number of accusations against Catholic preist in the US and the number of admissions (pay-offs), it seems to me that something is not working.

Ricardo in California (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:53 PM)

Yes, Senator Obama is a thinking man. And unfortunately we've seen what happens to thinking men in campaigns -- they get their behinds kicked by idiots like George W. Bush -- because Americans distrust brains. We revere athletes and make fun of people with minds. It's the American way, which is why we're in the mess we're in.

JJ in NJ (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:53 PM)

Yiannis I see what you are saying and I that is your view, that is fine. I just think what you mentioned is always a post-crime situation. Teaching a child about innapropriate touching is specifically crime prevention. And I think those who often do so teach specifically enough to make an simple enough distinction...almost specifically to genitals and extensive groping. This type of education existed even when I was in grade school.

CJ (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:00 PM)

JJ there may be hope yet..I think Neil Cavuto gave a veiled indorsement for Obama on his show yesterday.

CJ (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:03 PM)

Yiannis:

I think you make some very valid points regarding sex ed for the the very young. I was wondering if you think it is possible to convey these ideas to young children without scaring them?

I've always been of the opinion that children in our society are alot smarter than we give them credit for as adults. Certainly we shouldn't be deliberately attempting to scare children. But I would have no problems with a program that instills into the minds of children that if someone touches them in a way that makes them uncomfortable they have a right to say "stop" and an expectation that their request be honored. There are plenty of ways to educate the young about inappropriate vs appropriate touching without scaring them.

John Doe, The Peanut Gallery (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:07 PM)

JJ in NJ: Hopefully, enough people can get past the "good ole boy" image to vote for someone with a brain. I don't think this country can take any more of idiots in office!

Connie, Tn. (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:11 PM)

JJ - That's an interesting theory you have there. I never really thought about it that way. I'll have to ponder that a little more...

I don't know how many of you have actually seen Barack Obama speak in person, but I'm hear to tell you that I have and I was amazed. He came to Atlanta recently and over 20,000 people showed up to hear him speak. It was the biggest political rally turnout in the history of Atlanta. He came across as open, honest, caring and (best of all) very practical. I think he's the one candidate that has the ability to truly bring people together. Obama has been criticized in the media for not "attacking" his fellow running mates often enough. I applaud him for it. He tells it like it is and he also gives us hope that change can really happen with the right leadership. If there's one thing this country needs right now - it's change.

Obama 2008!

Rachel, Kennesaw, GA (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:24 PM)

Yiannis, Baltimore, MD (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:47 PM) et al.

From what I've been able to determine, kids subjected to this sick and disgusting behavior already know it is wrong at some level. You can tell that by their behavior. Trained professionals can detect it without even having to ask.

What this early education approach does is VALIDATE to those abused children that they are correct in feeling bad about the activity and that they should feel very free to tell someone about the activity so that they can get help!!

The children who are not already subjected to this disgusting behavior are NOT traumatized, they are educated and, because they haven't had to suffer it, do not get scared by it.

Look at the material sometime. It differs in different areas but it is all very very subtle and changes to be appropriate at age level.

Being concerned about this approach scaring or scarring children is very reminiscent of when, during the initial AIDs programs, providing condom teaching to teenagers would increase sexual activity was more of a concern than the fact that these kids could contract that deadly disease.

Look into all this directly yourselves. Don't forget that this world is completely different now (or at least more open) than when I was a youngster. Since parents now aren't able to protect the kids so carefully as mine were, they need all the help they can get.

Independent, Texas (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:33 PM)

Senator Obama's idea makes sense, but why is this something for a candidate for President to bring up and push? Education issues are for the States and localities to determine, not the Federal government.

I only hope that bringing this up doesn't turn into another Federal intrusion into something that it has no business mucking with. If that happens, the reference will do much more harm than good.

NOTHING good can come from the Federal government's continued expansion into areas it's not supposed to get involved in.

Richard Fifield, Easton, PA (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:34 PM)

Uh, the comments that I have read are some the most ignorant responses I have ever heard. First off, why does obama think the government has the role of teaching five year olds about appropriate vs. inappropriate touching? Why not the parents? Second, why is obama talking about this? He's talking about this to gain support from planned parenthood...ie it's politics. Besides, there are more important things in this world that we have to deal with than teaching kids about 'touching'. Thirdly, and most important of all, why does obama not talk about stiffer penalties for child molesters. Instead of giving a 50 year old man who molested a 5 year old a 5 year sentence...give the sob life without parole. If you lock up these sick people, they won't be able to do harm...and thus, you don't have to poison a five year old kid's mind (in school) with appropriate vs. inappropriate touching. This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard of from a presidential candidate!!!!!

amac, charlotte, NC (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:41 PM)

Thank you, Lorraine ! Let me agree with Phil Viet Vet. Your comments were refreshing. I'm going to have to rethink my prejudices against fundamentalist Christians. I've always thought of them as right wing clones. Thanks for straightening me out. I guess life isn't all black and white.

Sierra, San Francisco (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:53 PM)

amac, charlotte, NC (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:41 PM)

Oh amac. I am so very sorry that you feel this way.

I'm not even an Obama supporter but do feel that it is critically important that this issue be very openly and frequently discussed.

I don't recall that Mr. Obama said anything about the "government" teaching it. He was saying that he supports the fact that schools should use this material.

There are other very important topics to be discussed, true. However, the very little time (percentage wise) taken for this topic surely can't be seen as overshadowing those important issues, can it?

I believe, but will look to the Obama supporters to clarify, that Mr. Obama's position is very strong on penalties for all types of sexual misconduct not limited to pedophilia.

In this day and age, it is impossible to say that we can lock up all the offenders overnight, agreed? Until we do get them all locked up, let's do what we can to help children feel safe to report such abuse (as this education approach is intended to do) so that we can get a leg up of finding, apprehending, trying, and sentencing those abusers.

Does this clarify why this is certainly not "the most absurd thing" you can hear from a candidate?

Personally, the "most absurd thing" I've heard from candidates is "stay the course in Iraq".

Thank you for taking the time to read my response to you.

Independent, Texas (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:57 PM)

Amac I see what you are saying but all politics is local. You can't believe that a POTUS candidate will go to a local district and not address issues that constituents of that area ask him or what is related to that audience. Plus it is typical for groups to ask of some form of federal funds to assist their programs, whether it is feeding the homeless or drug rehabilitation centers. And as mentioned above, he is not disconnected from what he said..it was an issue from his own Senatorial campaign when Alan Keys ran against him.

CJ (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 2:08 PM)

amac - did it occur to you that it might be the parents that are doing the inappropriate touching....don't teach the children anything...let Uncle Joe teach them...he knows all about the subject.

Al, KS (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 2:11 PM)

Richard, he wasn't pushing it. It was in response to a question at a planned parent hood conference. Obama doesn't script his questions and pre-pick his audiences so sometimes he may have to answer something off the cuff.

Jed (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 2:11 PM)

Independent, Texas - Great post!
It's so refreshing to see a response to an unreasonable post handled so thoughtfully and informatively instead of with anger and name-calling. I agree with you 100% in regards to "stay the course in Iraq" being the single most absurd thing to come out of a candidate's mouth.

Rachel, Kennesaw, GA (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 2:12 PM)

To Amac
Senator Obama is talking about prevention. Preventing a crime is as much if not much more important than being tough in sanctioning criminals after the crime has already happened. I'm a catholic and i live in Los Angeles. I'm a parent and i know very well how child molestation can be devastating.

Los Angeles, Ca (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 2:14 PM)

Lorraine, Tennessee (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:19 PM)

Thanks for helping change the perspective that we EC's can't think for ourselves. We do bear some responsibility as we've allowed the politicization of our beliefs to become so much a tool for some in political circles.

Maybe our continued voicing that we seek to share our faith, not to legislate it, will help others see that just because someone calls himself a christian doesn't mean that he knows the Savior.

Titus 1:16, Mt 7:16,

E. Trask (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 2:18 PM)

When I was in Kindergarten, 27 years ago, I was taught about "Good Touch/Bad Touch" and I didn't have a problem with it then. I don't have one now. I thought everyone was learning about that. I guess Southern California really is way ahead of the rest of the nation. Oh, and one time, when I was in Third Grade, they took all the Girls into a large Auditorium and showed us a video about our Menstrual Cycle. They were a little late because I started the day before my 11th Birthday. My point is, Sex Education is not dildo's and intercourse positions. People need to chill.

KnowledgeIsPower (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:01 PM)

According to Jonathan Martin on Politico seems Mr Romney supported "age apprroipriate" sex education in 2002 for young kids. Does this guy have any idea which side of an issue he is on.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0707/Romney_also_once_backed_ageappropriate

Lyn, Silver Spring, MD (Sent Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:12 PM)

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