Mr. Mayor vs. Mr. Moore

Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 4:07 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Republicans

From NBC's Carrie Dann and Mark Murray
If the Giuliani campaign's conference call earlier today wasn't a hint that the former New York mayor was on the attack against the Democrats' health-care plans, this certainly is... In New Hampshire today, Giuliani was treating supporters to a quick preview of the big health-care policy rollout he'll give tomorrow in Rochester. And from the sounds of it, he'll be casting documentary filmmaker Michael Moore in a starring role as his number one villain.

In the recent documentary "Sicko," Giuliani said at one campaign stop, Moore "proclaims, in essence, kind of what the theory of the Democrats is -- that medicine in Cuba is better than medicine in the United States." To much chuckling, he asked the crowd, "Would anybody here like to put up their hands to go to Cuba for medical treatment? No! It'd be like getting sentenced!"

At a later stop in Moultonsboro, NH, Giuliani drew even more specific parallels between Moore and his Democratic rivals -- a tactic that both he and Mitt Romney are fond of employing. "Only Michael Moore, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and John Edwards, I guess, would want to go to Cuba for health care," he said. Giuliani went on to accuse Democrats of "setting traps" for the American people by promising universal health care (administered by what he calls a "nanny state") rather than the market-based system supported by most Republicans.

Also in Moultonsboro, Giuliani added some legs to this morning's story about a potential date change for the Republican CNN/Youtube debates. He echoed the concerns about the "respecfulness" of the freewheeling format first voiced by Mitt Romney, who previously declined CNN's invitation but now - as reported today - says he may attend if the event's date is pushed back. Giuliani also cited a scheduling conflict to explain his "no" RSVP to the debate, which is currently set for Septembr 17. "They never bothered to ask us [about the date], which is the part that bothers me," Hizzoner complained. "But I would be happy to do it at some point that we could work it out."

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Comments

Health care in Cuba is so good they had to send to Spain to find a Doctor to save Fidel. LOL, what a joke the democrats have become.

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:13 PM)

If you love the Bush Administration's policy of fear and political soundbites then Giuliani is your guy...If you want someone intelligent, thoughtful, reasonable and able to talk with and Listen to other people then please do not vote for Guiliani...this guy makes George Bush look like a pussycat...We do not need another fear monger as President...

Hope2008 (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:19 PM)

Seems like the R candidates are starting to recant. You can't shun everything.

CJ (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:24 PM)

Speaking of jokes........Giuliani is the joker. Fear tactics is all this man knows. No substance to him period. Just ask the NYFD.

David, Chattanooga, Tn (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:26 PM)

If political elite really want the public to have health care they should open up the one they have set up exclusivly for members of Congress. Otherwise I think that they should be afforded the same healtcare they give to returning service presonel through the VA, that would get them off their lazy tails and make things wrok for everyone.

James S. Roseville, CA (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:33 PM)

Giuliani, talking tough on Health Care and the War on Terror. Is he trying to cement his leading position on the Republican side by picking fights with the Democrats instead of his opponents in the primary? Get the public thinking about Giuliani versus Clinton or Obama instead of Giuliani versus Thompson or Romney?

Chris, Boston, MA (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:34 PM)

"He echoed the concerns about the "respecfulness" of the freewheeling..."

The man who divorced his second wife in a televised press conference is having concerns about respectfulness?

Jon, Cambridge, MA (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:35 PM)

It's okay to be a republican if you vote for Ron Paul.

Listen to the man speak and then decide for yourself which way you want America to go
www ronpaul2008 com

Brett, Tempe AZ (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:36 PM)

The only thing we have to fear is GoreBull Warming.

AL (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:36 PM)

ELECT A REPUBLICAN ,GET A IDIOT !

BILL C. (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:45 PM)

So why don't they want all Americans to have good health care? Someone explain to me what they get out of it except as using it as a twisted talking point to get elected. Do they think the suffering is God's will? Do they think the poor deserve it? Are they too much in love of their money to help the society they live and benefit from? Nasty disgusting people whatever the reason. I call them the "poke a stick in someones eye" people. They and their supporters just seem to get their jollies from other's misery.

Russell in Maryland (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:46 PM)

I would not want to go to Mexico for health care either. But I would consider Canada or Great Britain. At least there would not be a language barrier.

TEC-Spring TX (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:58 PM)

Why do Republicans hate Americans?

nuanced (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 4:59 PM)

David, CJ, Hope and all of you lefties out there. Be honest please, raise your hand if you want a Cuba-style health system. I rest mycase...That's what "sicko" and the three democrack stooges are promoting. It's not fearmongering, and it is far from being a joke.

Navy Senior Chief, Virginia (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:01 PM)

none of the dems are saying health care in cuba is better, it is just another lie, btw, Moore is not running for president

melissa, new york, new york (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:01 PM)

I would much rather have Rudy in office then the Socialist (Hilary Stalin)or The Fascist (Barack Osama) or the Schizo (John Two Americas)

The democrat party has no ideas, only criticism and gloom with a side order of doom. They do not acknowledge a great economy, successes (minimal granted) in Iraq and Afghanistan.

They want illegal alieans given legal sttus, they want to raise taxes or repeal other tax custs and continue to "fix" what isn't broken.

For over forty years the democrat party had control of congress and could not do anything. They do not deserve to win the Oval Office they would put our sovereignty undeer the UN. We do not need the world telling us what is in our best interest, but the world apparently still needs US.

Steve, Fayetteville NC (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:02 PM)

Seriously, if you want to see an effective US government health care program all you have to do is look at the system for civil servants and elected representatives. If you want to see how a US government run program would operate just look at the Veterans Administration health care program. Government run is not pretty, but government sponsored, Federal Employees health care system, is better than the average citizen has. Why want the government give us what they give themselves? Same with Social Security as compare to the Federal Government employee retirement system.

TEC-Spring TX (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:05 PM)

Giuliani cares about one thing and that's Rudy Giuliani. If you donate alot of money to his campaign he'll care about you too. Right now his campaign seems to be about becoming Bush on Crystal Methamphetamine. Giuliani theme seems to be cut taxes, kill Muslims, ignore the poor especially African Americans and turn this country into a police state. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets himself another mistress if he became President and paraded around like he did with his last one. I'd rather have 4 more years of George W. Bush than this fraud.

Brad Winters, New York, NY (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:06 PM)

The point is that Cuba has pretty good health care, even though the country has big problems. Why shouldn't it be far better in the United States? We spend the most per capita, but don't have the best care.

Bruce, Colorado Springs, CO (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:13 PM)

Gore. That name sounds familiar. Oh yes, the self-proclaimed computer guro. Ah, yes. He said he invented the internet. Wow. And here we go again. A self-proclaimed expert in hemispherical warming.R

R Cruz, Henderson,NV (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:15 PM)

"The democrat party has no ideas" Oh my! W's ideas are so unbelievably excellent! Too bad NONE of the the Democrats have ideas like that! I wonder if the Dems could find a VP like Voldemort, I mean Darth, oops, I mean Cheney?

Bruce, Colorado Springs, CO (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:16 PM)

Would someone with access to Rudy publicly ask him how the US is going to pay for George Bush's war if not by taxes? Bake sales? Do the people in this country who support the war not understand that it will need to be paid for?

CTurner, Durham, NC (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:17 PM)

I think we should give the "senior chief" from VA who gets FREE med care courtesy of my tax dollars a one-way trip to the mold-filled areas of Walter Reed and see if he likes it?

If he weren't in the military and had to actually pay to talk to a doctor instead of using a debit card called the American taxpayer he might have a diff point of view.

ps: I'm a vet so I please spare me the "Don't you support the troops nonsense."

Al in SoCal (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:23 PM)

Navy what I do want is the same plan Congressmen recieve which is funded by our tax dollars so I'll raise my hand. Please, Please...why is it always a name call, socialist, or Cuba style care. Please stop the rhetoric and lets have a real debate. That is what really dissapoints me about Republicans..they like to attack with catch phrases and labels but they don't debate the merits of an idea different from their own or the status quo. Like Moore said..if you call it Christian care then maybe people would listen.

CJ (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:24 PM)

TEC--make sure you book a hotel for a week and bring some large novels to read, you just might get thru War and Peace by the time the doctor gets to you.

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:24 PM)

Hey Mitt
Since you won't face us at the debate here's a few questions:
1. Pro-military yet you NEVER served and your sons are NOT serving.
2. Didn't raise taxes yet you did raise legal fees and license fee while at the same time you cut $277 million from education and another $130 million from higher education.
3. Mass ranks 49th in job growth?
4. You said that John Kerry spent too much time away from office and yet you spent half your term away from office.
I can see why you don't want to debate, you have too much to hide.

your40ha (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:25 PM)

Giuliani is either an idiot or trying to appeal to idiots.

Chris, New York, NY (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:25 PM)

Yes, the Democrats are a joke. But the Republicans are traitors, and most of them belong in jail. You're an idiot if think the GOP are looking out for you, jerry. (which means you're an absolute idiot.)

Steve Barry St. Paul, MN (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:25 PM)

Market based health care solutions are what cause people to be too poor to afford health insurance and too rich to be on Medicaid. The American health care system is an example of market failure. The reason market-based health care solutions will always fail is because private insurers are not interested in providing coverage. They only make money if they deny coverage. Therefore, it's in their best interest if you die. Private insurers make money by denying claims. They make money by not letting people get treatment. Doctors should decide what health care people should get, not shareholders.

The government should guarantee that all people have real health insurance that provides coverage for things that people need like necessary drugs and procedures. If private citizens can afford to do so, they can buy supplemental insurance to give them access to more coverage but the government should set a floor that is more than the zero that far too many people have.

Jim, Chicago, IL (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:28 PM)

"For over forty years the democrat party had control of congress and could not do anything. They do not deserve to win the Oval Office they would put our sovereignty undeer the UN. We do not need the world telling us what is in our best interest, but the world apparently still needs US.
Steve, Fayetteville NC"
Wow, talk about a sweeping condemnation! I guess the Democrats who passed the Civil Rights Amendment might have a thing or two to discuss with you, Steve. I am endlessly amused by Repugs who wash over every argument by damning the other side, usually using standard the Rovian sound bites ("Clinton was worse," "Cut and run," or more recently "The terrorists will follow us over here if we leave now"). No real responses or answers to issues, just toss the "they are worse than us" blanket over everything and pretend that the last 6 and a half years under the Brush has ruined this country. Sad. Jimi Mosey

Jimi Mosey, LA, CA (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:28 PM)

I would happily go to Cuba for health care. I am walking around with two draining fistulas (openings that have internal abscesses) from surgery I had in the U.S.A. in 2002. I have had no health care since late 2002, and no money to see a surgeon. My husband has just graduated nursing school, is working as a nurse and making good money, but his new health insurance is so poor (offered by the hospital he works at!) that I will still not be able to afford to see a surgeon. I would go to Cuba in the blink of an eye if it were possible; I could probably afford the care offered me, and I doubt it would be substantially different from the care I have received at American hospitals. I think the people Michael Moore took to Cuba were happy to get medications and treatment plans, so I know I'm not alone.

Susan Elizabeth Siens (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:29 PM)

I'm sure the press will do an excellent job pointing out that Moore is not a spokesperson for any of the 2008 Democratic candidates and that specifically rails against both the GOP Democrats in his documentary.

I'm sure the press will do that-- won't you?

Rudy is and always will be an overly proud jerk.

Gary, Des Moines, IA (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:29 PM)

Why does the fascist (Steve Hitler) hate America?

nuanced (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:31 PM)

That one really brings on the giggles. You are too much, Rudy. Trouble is, once the joke is told, it gets stale the second time around, like a Geico commercial. And only a brainless Bush voter can take you seriously. You are appealing to the 13% moron minority. Navy senior chief and other morons on this blog: I don't have to raise my hand. I have good coverage. The Dems are going after coverage for the working poor and other uninsured. That doesn't mean the majority who already have good coverage have to quit and sign onto that afforded the poor. Are you crazy? These people would in fact probably be better off with what is offered in Cuba, but I'm sure the Dems have better than that in mind. You jokers are grabbing at straws because you know the Repub ship is going down the toilet with Bush, Cheney, Rove and Gonzo, and all the non-moron supporters have already jumped ship, leaving just you guys.

JIrby, Colorado (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:31 PM)

I, for one, wear a gas mask and carry a roll of duct tape with me at all times. This protects me from germs, anthrax, and the exhaled air of anyone who spews talk of peace, the koran, or churros. And gays.

Bryan (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:35 PM)

It takes a real shallow thinker to come up with "Socialist (Hilary Stalin)or The Fascist (Barack Osama) or the Schizo (John Two Americas)"
1. Hillary, not Hilary. HOW does she compare to Stalin? Name calling with NOTHING to back it up. (compare to "W's and idiot". To back it up, look at how well he has executed the war in Iraq. "Bin Laden, I don't think about him much")
2. Barack Osama??? Compare Obama to a terrorist leader? What did he do to deserve that? JERK!
3. Schizo? Let's call John Edwards mentally ill! No supporting FACTS necessary. JERK!
Look, we can disagree on political direction, but we don't have to stoop to name calling, with nothing to back up our comments.

Bruce, Colorado Springs, CO (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:37 PM)

It boggles my mind how many of our country's citizens feel the need to identify with a political party. In their comments, they create this polarity of left and right, me versus them. This mentality gets in the way of the goal of society, which is compromise. Health care, immigration, foreign policy...all issues are complex questions with no definite answers. Both sides need to express an undying commitment to understand the other side's position, take it as their own, and then act ipon a willingness to compromise. When I see my fellow country men and women conceptualizing social discourse into a dichotomy, it is disheartening. We are all individual, with everything in common, and many things not in common with each other. When I see politicians reducing complex ideas into sarcastic anecdotes, I feel hopeless.

John, New York City (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:41 PM)

You Have to give Rudy credit for playing the classic Republican tune. Market driven solution in the form of tax credits certainly can offer modest relief to families. BUT healthcare is already a highly government regulated system run by the payers (Medicare and for-profit Insurance co's), and the GOP always passes the buck. Hospitals and ER doctors can't refuse care to the uninusred (just expesive high-quality care and preventitive care), so we all pay the costs anyway... we can fix it without raising taxes, but we just might have to spend less on weapons and wars (for which we spend in the red anyway). Isn't this a moral choice...

DFoster, Chicago, IL (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:45 PM)

What "healthcare rollout" to the republiCANTS have?....Allowing insurance companies to take more of our money and cover fewer procedures, while doctors get richer and average citizens go bankrupt trying to keep themselves alive?
jerry.....speaking of who or what has become a joke, take a good look at your own party my friend.

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:47 PM)

Does anyone talk about number of people going bankrupt due to rising medical bills.
About 2 million people went bankrupt in US in 2005
http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/24/pf/personal_bankruptcies/index.htm, about 27,644 people filed for bankruptcy in 3rd quarter of 06 so its rougly 100,000 people in a year. Most of the bankruptcies in US (abotu 70%) are due to health care costs. You can also go bankrupt even if you have health insurance. In Canada the number was 106,629 in 06.
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/en/br01702e.html
Do we have a national healthcare here or a national shame?

mm,ma (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:47 PM)

You guys trying to turn this into a republican vs. demcrat thing are about as clueless and off-base as can be.

Rudy Guliani is an idiot for missing the point as well. No one in their right minds actually WANTS to go to Cuba to get health care. What we middle class citizens want it the ability to receive health care without being forced to pay through the nose for it. Each time I go to the doctor, I am charged $25 as a "co-pay" for the service. After the visit, I am routinely sent another bill from the doctor telling me that I need to pay an additional $30-$50. If the visit is for anything more than a routine visit for me or an immunization for my kids, the bill goes up into the hundreds of dollars.

Why should I be foreced to pay so much to receive care? The middle man is getting as much of my money as my doctor and my health care provider. THAT is the problem that needs to be addressed.

You political hacks should be ashamed of yourselves.

Cameron Frye, Shermer, Ill. (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 5:55 PM)

Melissa....on point, thank you.

Steve, Fayetteville. And during those years alot of thinking people belonged to the Republican Party, including myself. The Democrats had George Wallace et al.

The GOP left me when the obvious hypocrite Newt Gangrape got ahold of power. I said Adios.

Greg R., Spokane, WA (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 6:05 PM)

Forget Republican & Democrats!!"We the People" are the employer of the President, the Senators and The Congress Rep's and pay with our taxes for their medical coverage regardless of their political affiliation why should I or any other American have less medical coverage? Why should any American have to choose between eating or buying medication? To me that should be the question "WE the People" should be asking and if we are NOT, WHY NOT ? I would really like to know.

Victoria, West Palm Beach FL (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 6:08 PM)

Well partly because it's on top and partly in response to Steve "the GOP can do no wrong", Frayettville NC:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/treasury-asks-congress-raise-us/story.aspx?guid=%7B894F7525-21A2-479C-A1EA-A95CC21A11A3%7D

The White House is requesting that the debt ceiling be raised again. This time to 10 TRILLION dollars. It is the fifth time in six years that the wasteful spending of the Republicans has forced to either raise the debt limit or default on US Treasury notes. So... want to be a fiscal conservative? VOTE DEMOCRAT!

John Doe, The Peanut Gallery (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 6:10 PM)

Hey Bill C. (Clinton maybe?) It's "an idiot" not "a idiot" you idiot!
Typical Democrat, needs to be lead around by the ear, poor boy!
Maybe you and dear old "Teddy" should have a few drinks and drive off a bridge together, see if he helps anybody "out" this time! There is a real, true Democrat!
Hillary wants to be like that some day. First she needs to shed that bag of dead skin cheatin' husband of hers.
If she was to push him in the river, then she would be as "democratic" as Ted Kennedy.
Keep on looking the other way at these " great and wonderful future leaders" from the democratic left and you'll see, you think global warming is going to be bad, learn to spend the euro, speak french and buy german. Democrats will sell us out in a flash, mark my words.

TH, Washtucna Wa. (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 6:20 PM)

Work a day in the hlthcare field before you spout your right wing neo-con fascist propaganda. Lets see when one of you need hlthcare coverage and one of your capitalist pigs deny you because of greed and profits for the company.

juan,ft lauderdale,fl (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 6:22 PM)

''Fear tactics"? This is illogical. Rather,it is Moore who plays on American fears merely by making his mockumentaries. I cannot understand why the man cannot seem to make a ''clean'',factual documentary. It appears that he is unwilling or unable to do so.His first film,''Roger and Me''had President Reagan appearing to visit Flint Mi. in an ''I Feel Your Pain''moment. [Pizza parlour.Moore then intones,''someone stole the cash register right after Reagan left''].
Yet Reagan was out of office nearly a year when he made his Flint visit as a private citizen,and the cash register was ripped off nearly a month before his visit. These are small,albeit telling instances of Moores dishonesty. It would get worse,culminating with Fahrenheit 9/11,a film so filled with inaccuracies and timeline tinkering that even liberals over at SLATE,SALON,the NEW REPUBLIC and NEWSWEEK ridiculed Moores movie. [George Soros, not GHW Bush,sheparded the UNITED DEFENSE arms sales package to the Saudis when at CARLYLE]. The Saudi Embassy in Washington,is under Secret Service protection as are all of the rest of them,which Moore conveniently fails to mention.
So with Sicko.Moore fails to grasp the fact that universal health care cannot be based upon a socialist-communist model in order to have any chance of success. The total helplessness of the Russian medical system in response to the victims of Chernyobal,to the extant hour,is one great example.Chinas is another and Cubas is still another. Then again, Moore never addresses the impact of massive fraud upon taxpayers. In the state of California,one man. Just one man,got away with over 28 million dollars in MEDICAL fraud. Any economic recovery,[which,despite assertions to the contrary we are now in the middle of with a normal-since-the-1960s 3.4% growth],would be immediately damaged by such a Mooreian scheme,which would hardly affect the corpulent multi-millionare but would many others in high taxes and unemployment.

Lee Holmes (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 6:32 PM)

I work two part-time jobs and have no health insurance. I have kidney stones. They hurt.

I love America and I don't want to leave, but if I lived in Canada or England or yes even Cuba I wouldn't be in agonizing pain right now.

We can do better than this.

David, Salinas, CA (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 6:45 PM)

Anyone who would dumb down Michael Moore's movie into "Do you wanna go to Cuba for medical treatment?" can't be taken seriously. It's the worst form of political hypervenilation.

MIchael Donovan, San Diego, CA (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 7:18 PM)

comparing castro's and guiliani's health care is pretty useless, and so is rudolph's joking. that seems to be all he can do - ridicule and pretend, pretend he is leader with a microphone at 911. Too bad he cannot pretend he has the guts to go on Youtube. I don't wanting him pretending he is president.

bruce, ca (Sent Monday, July 30, 2007 7:23 PM)

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