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Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Iraq

Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:06 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: , ,

The headline from the Washington Times: “New British leader backs Bush on Iraq.” From the article: “British Prime Minister Gordon Brown yesterday strongly backed the U.S.-led war in Iraq and said the global war against terror looms as a ‘generation-long battle.’”

But the New York Daily News’ take on Brown’s visit with Bush is that he “signaled his intent to pull his 5,500 troops from Iraq.” The paper also writes that Brown believes “Afghanistan is the front where the war on terror is being fought.”

The New York Times: “The two leaders showed none of the warmth and coziness that Mr. Bush had shared with Mr. Brown’s predecessor, Tony Blair, a closeness that contributed to Mr. Blair’s political tumble at home. But Mr. Brown offered bullish comments on Britain’s relationship with the United States. On Iraq, Mr. Brown said any future British decision to reduce troops and cede control of a sector to the Iraqis ‘will be made on the military advice of our commanders on the ground.’”

House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn said yesterday that a "strongly positive report" on progress in Iraq by Army Gen. David Petraeus would split the House Democratic caucus. "Clyburn noted that Petraeus carries significant weight among the 47 members of the Blue Dog caucus in the House, a group of moderate to conservative Democrats. Without their support, he said, Democratic leaders would find it virtually impossible to pass legislation setting a timetable for withdrawal."

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hey everybody good day in iraq.The insurgency is in its last days ,haliburton has the infrastucture going ,water and electricity are being delivered with sucess\.The goverment is strong who can forget those elections.The military from what I hear has just arrived <the surge>in iraq and will start fighting a war without major battle operations despite what the nay sayers are repeating that the battle is over.Things are looking up .Its morning in america dont you feel better hearing all that.Good news is awesome
Have you picked the Washington paper hanger to vote for?? The lastest ""Iraq Government corrupt! But what the Hell, it's your Washington Paper Hanger giving away your TAX DOLLAR! Washington Paper Hangers need not your opinion nor will they listen! With over 72% now against this war and we still have no voice!!  Send 40% percent of your pay check to the Paper Hangers, there working on close to a trillion dollars,,,but agin it's only your dollar!!!

Hats off to the Washington Paper Hangers!!!!
Me thinks Brown is just playing nice in the Shrub's sandbox, look for Brown to declare victory and pull the last remaining british troops out of Iraq, just like the British voters wanted him to do. Lesson for Blair and the Shrub.
All the arab neighbors of iraq are getting billions of our tax dollars to try and buy them off but yet they are making no promises on helping out,none of iraqs neighbrs seem too worried about things going haywire should we pull out, which shows me that all the talk about things getting even worse(if thats possible) is all about as truthful as bush's reason for atacking iraq in the first place.
Brown-The Shrub's lap dog part 2.
This lap dog just may poop in POTUS's lap.
Iraqi government corrupt? Of course, they're just following Bush's leadership style.
It's embarrassing to America to see that idiot Bush acting like a buffoon out on the lawn. Brown was probably thinking what a terrible court jester the jerk would make.
Here ya go ken I'm gonna pee on your flower or were you just being cute.
Only 75 U.S. soldiers killed in July versus 100 last month, things are getting better as one of the top ranking General's put it (One is too many).
Article 136B of Iraqi Law
The law allows the prime minister to exempt Cabinet ministers from prosecution and allows ministers to exempt their employees from prosecution.  "This is
tantamount to a get out of jail free card," Stuart Bowen, the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, told NBC.  Rahdi said the total
amount of missing money involved in his investigations into government misconduct is $11 billion.  Corruption has shattered any faith in government.  "In some cases there is ... despair that ... corruption has destroyed the ability of the government to provide services".  "The Americans who are supporting this political class, I believe really have no choice. This is a group they have been saddled with, or supported in power, and must grin
and bear it".  The exiles under Saddam have been returned by the U.S. and they are literally cleaning up!
Brian: You can chill with personal attacks. That is very disrespectful of the office of the POTUS.
Paw Paw- suppose Ken's flowers are the same ones the Iraqis were (repeatedly, and incessantly) showering the troops with?  Bet they were!  (I also bet Ken was just funning us-  much the same way Brown is funning Doofus-boy, by coming over to his house to play today.)

And yes, Brian- he is a huge embarrasment at times.  Anyone remember the 'Hey- where's the pig' dinner, or the scene of him playing the bongos with that African group that time?.  God- what a dimwit.  Makes Klem Kaddidlehopper look like an Einstein. Guys like Jerry in Texas, and Dave in TN must be SO proud. No wonder Cheny and Rove have such an easy time scamming him.  
Jackson- I hope you, too, are 'funning' us (and I know you could be- I'm slow sometimes.  If I missed the joke, sorry).  Your post seems to be saying it's not nice to be disrespectful to the office of the president, but it's ok for the office of the president to hold complete contempt of the people that office represents?
I find it amazing that the first thoughts of the House Majority Whip when faced with a "strongly positive report" on improvements in Iraq are "it would be bad for us [Democrats]."  I guess success in Iraq is no longer the goal of Democrats.  Success in the '08 election is their only goal.

What frauds are these Democrats.  They speak of helping in Dafur, but wish only defeat, devastation and death for Iraqis.

Hey, you Democrats of Jewish faith have you learn yet the true nature of the party you so fervently support?  I hope so before Tel Aviv becomes a smoking irradiated hole in the ground.
Just over the past few days, it appears that Iraq is becoming more and more democratic. Several, if not most of the ministries are corrupt and/or headed by militants and are stealing money provided by the U.S. for the Iraqi army , to recruit insergents. Get it? Al Qaeda is stealing billions of our money to fight us with. Did I say democratic? I meant plutocratic, like America. It seems that no one has ever actually tried democracy. This money is running in the billions, and does not include nearly a billion that was given to appointed Iraqis for buying uniforms and equipment for the Iraqi army in '03, who instead of buying proper arms, uniforms and other equipment as intended, spent maybe a tenth of it to get this equipment from Russia and various banana republics at their surplus outlets across the globe. Junk in other words. And made off to Europe and Arab states with the rest of the money. That's really what democracy as we know it is all about. Both these above groups are untouchable, like Osama. Each ministry has what we call "executive privilege", so that neither the Minister nor any of his minions can be touched. Whether any of them are as crooked as the Bush administration remains unexplored. Also unexplored is whether they learned this kind of big time thievery from Halliburton or thought of it on their own. The good news is that the American taxpayer will foot the bill in case anyone was worried that the fools who made it inevitable would be held accountable. At this rate, the Iraqis will be as shot through with crookedness and incompetence as America in five to ten years. Democracy in action. Rome wasn't built in a day. Check it out here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20043428/
Hey John Doe,  What democrat wishes "only defeat, devastation and death for Iraqis"?  Name one.
Jackson, Houston to Brian - you must be new here. Or did you mean that as a joke?
IF the NY Times take is correct and 5,500 troops are going to be pulled, Brown has already pooped on the POTUS' lap.
The same Stuart Bowen who told NPR yesterday that Iraqs prewar electrical and oil output levels would be attained in less than two weeks from now.
John Doe, Seattle, Wash.- Hmmmm, John. Israel, at this time, possess the only nuclear capability in the region.
I'm just guessing here but, judging from the preemptive strike on the Iraqi nuclear plant in the 1980's, Israel will probably take care of themselves if they need to. It is just that they are willing to let us spill our blood and money if we are willing. I think that before Tel Aviv becomes a smoking irradiated hole, Damascus, Tehran, and Riyadh would suffer that fate.
You seem to think of Israel as a struggling weak nation that needs our protection. The fact of the matter is that the nation of Israel is hardened steel forged in the furnaces of Dachau and Auschwitz. When THEY say never again they mean it.
The Washington Times?

How experienced are those reporters?

My Brit relations have taught me alot about how the British communicate.  It is as far from Bush-speak as you can get.

There is no more support from the U.K. for the fools in the White House.  It is over.  We are on our own now.

I see the arms sales to the so called moderate Arab states as an attempt by Washington to keep up w/France and Sarkozy.  The deal the French just made w/Libya is just the beginning.  The French will now round up the rest of the moderates and Washington will be left to blow in the wind.

Thank You GWB
John Doe: Have another dose of kool-aid & go watch some pit bulls fight, you'll feel better.
Ken, Seattle WA: Name one Democrat that wants defeat in Iraq, boy that'll be hard to do.  Oh, never mind, here one.  "The war is lost" -- Senate Majority Leadere Harry Reid.
U.S. politicians have had over two hundreds years to perfect the art of  cronyism, using lobbiest for their own purposes, pribes, pork....and we are going to supposedly export democracy to the middle east and for them not to mimic the same self-rightous and corrupting behaviors.Yeah right! It is the old...I got land in the Everglades to sell you.
Jackson, Houston - I have no disrespect for the Office of the President, just total disdain and contempt for the LYING, CORRUPT, STUPID CLOWN who dishonors it each day. America will never gain respect again until WE THE PEOPLE show the world that this country is TRULY A COUNTRY OF THE PEOPLE, take control again and impeach these criminals.
Just read an article boasting July American deaths are at a low of 73 since last November. Just stop and think of what a despicable thing that is to stay - a low? I think it's a Goddamned HIGH of 73!
And stop for a moment, close your eyes and think about this - the next deaths supposedly over assisting the government is getting their sh@# together - will be expended while the corrupt bastards are on vacation...just makes you want to puke, doesn't it. Think if it was someone you loved being taken away for that reason.
John Doe - That wasn't the question and you know it.  Harry Reid never said that he wanted devastation and death for Iraqis.  And it is an assumption to think he wishes defeat. My question remains unanswered. What democrat wishes "only defeat, devastation and death for Iraqis"?
Brian: This is exactly what Im saying. Your vocabulary must be very limited. If all you guys can do is whine and complain and be totally disrespectful OF THE OFFICE then you have issues. What has Bush done to you personally? Probably nothing. Besides he is not running again. This is an on purpose political tactic to keep people like you concentrating on the person that will not even be in the race, meanwhile a sleeper is creeping up to win the race. Keep talking about Bush, and see what happens. ALL POLITICIANS are corrupt, they lie for personal gain, say anything to remain in power eventually to become a professional politician.
"Reid never said that he wanted devastation and death for Iraqis"

True.  But he did say the war is lost, and we should bring our troops home.  

Can you point us all to Senator Reid's plan on how to deal with the certain devastation and deaths of Iraq's on a massive scale when our troops leave the area?  Certainly Mr. Reid has considered that issue and has a plan for it, right?
what has Bush done to someone personally?  What a stupid question.  

He's where the buck stops.  He's responsible for the resurgence of France in particular and Europe as a whole; never to be attached to the hip of the U.S. again in our lifetime.

That will be Blair's legacy.  The successful separation from the U.S.; or at the very least, separation from conservatives in the U.S.
3645 wrongs dont make 3646 right ,if you want it go fight it but let anyone in the army who dont come home and you take thier place neoconman
The Brits have paid their WWII debt in full.

Thanks, GWB

Of everything else Bush's destroyed, the historic relationships he mangled w/Europe (secular democracies) is the worst.
Paw Paw, that is the real kicker. Chalibi and his ilk ,supported by Cheney and his ilk, cleans our clocks and the U.S. out of our money. And then the former Baathists will be seeking asylum here.The fault lies with the United States and this Administration.
    And Lee, if it is true that electricity will be back up to pre-war standards, wonderful. the Iraqi people should expect no less from the United States. Only took 4 years  From accounts I have read ,some of the country had more and some had less electricity under Hussein.  
Why is it the Democrats' job to make everything perfect in Iraq when Bush and the neocons destroyed it?  What they've already done has ensured that there will be no good outcome in Iraq.  Our only hope is to seek out the "least bad" outcome.  There are no winners in war.  We one who loses the least the winner, but both sides only lose.
Jackson, Houston - what has Bush done to me personally? First, there's the issue of lying us into a needless war and spending our good American lives and treasure for NOTHING but his family's oil interests. A war that you, me and the current American public, our children, our children's children and maybe MORE children after that WILL BE PAYING FOR YEARS TO COME. Imagine what those trillions of dollars could be better spent on? And that's nothing to say of the costs to the families of those lost or maimed. Bush has also cost me my trust in the American government AGAIN! I lived through the Tricky Dick days and watched my America plunge into the gutter - and his actions were saintly compared to the morron you're supporting. So there's but a few examples of what that jerk has done to me personally. I'd list more, but my temper and anger is more than my limited vocabulary will allow without offending your sensitivities.
Greg: I again ask. What has he done to you PERSONALLY? Dont answer with the usual whining "The world hates us, he has destroyed our credibility" Man if you think the world gave a damn about the U.S. before Bush, then you need to be hoodwinked.

Democrats are now in a bind. It is predominantly due to the fact that their vision of the chaotic Iraq, circa 2006, is coming undone to such a degree that we are now seeing,at long last,Dem talking points of ''failure'',particularly regarding the Surge,being wrecked by the efforts of Petreaus ,his commanders,and the troops on the ground. Here is where confusion reigns. A few glimpses.

The Washington Post Jul.30,2007-''Clyburn[D-NC] Says Positive Report By Petraeus Could Split House Dems On War''-Here,Clyburn,apparently believing that the GOP is a worse enemy than al Qaeda,worries that the Republicans will become more ''solid''in backing the president and the Surge. Here is a tangible sighting of Democrats actually afraid that the Surge is working. Here is proof positive that those among them are deliberately  politicizing the war for personal gain.



USA TODAY July 30,2007-''Ellison[D-Minn]Returns From Iraq Trip''[remarks]''While we walked through the streets of Ramadi we saw people walking to market and waving..I do not want to overplay this,but what I saw was mutual respect.I was really pleased to see Gen.Gaskin deliver the traditional Muslim greeting to people he met''

Hugh Hewitt Radio Show,NYC.July 30,2007:Interview With The New York Times Iraq Bureau Chief John Burns-[remarks].''Civilian casualties are down. Bombings are down. US losses are down.[the lowest in eight months]. al Qaeda is being driven out of the ''Belt''provinces surrounding Baghdad''.

Michael Yon,July 29,2007-''Bread and Circuses''-''al Qaeda has been killed in Baqubah.They are no longer in control. We lost one Marine to over 100 al Qaeda KIA. Supplies of food,water,gasoline and medicine[photos attached] are reaching the city under STRYKER [1-12]protection''.

NPR July 30,2006.Remarks,Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction Stuart Bowen.''The corruption in the government is frankly quite bad.This being said,we are seeing improvements.Iraqs prewar capabilities in electrical power and oil production will be met by this August''

NPR Morning Edition,July 31,2007:''Former Insurgents Join US Fight Against al Qaeda''.

It is happening all over Iraq. In Babil,and in Taji.In Diyala and Anbar.In South Baghdad,where the noose is tightening around the Medhi Army,and in Isankandryah.In Sadr and Mosul. Petreaus stands poised to become the greatest general since Eisenhower at the wars tipping point. All across the nation,Iraqis are taking up arms and going after al Qaeda and Muqtadas thugs. Normalcy not seen even in the time of Saddam is returning to one city and province after another. In keeping with Pattons and MacArthurs policies of meeting and discussing issues with former enemies, Petraeus'subordiates are meeting with tribal leaders,mayors and religious Imams instilling mutual cooperation which is seeing food and goods return to the markets. Iraqi police patrolling streets without fear of another ambush. Factories large and small reopening. Citizens riding on the hoods of US Army vehicles saying ''here.This is where they planted one[IED]. Here is another''When removed and detonated,people flow back onto the streets as in older times. The torture houses of al Qaeda exposed to the world and then torn down to the cheers of citizens. Record amounts of battlefield re-enlistments not seen in this nation since WWII. The soldiers feel it. They see the good they are doing and the changes accompanying them. The old disgraces of Abu Ghraib and the massive firefights of Fallujah are being sloughed off,replaced, with a tough,efficient confidence. In literally hundreds of Iraq milblogs,soldiers are registering their disgust with the Dem-dominated Congress,whom they see as ''defeatist''[Just A Marine] and ''worthless''[An Airmans View],seeking to not merely snatch defeat from their own victories,won at their cost,not those in Washingtons,but also denigrating a Surge that we[a few of us at least],and they know is working beyond all expectation. While Dems cowardly even refuse to meet with the man, General Petraeus is a hero to his soldiers,whose strategy and tactics will become required readings at our military academies for decades to come. We will await the arrival of Petreaus and September with interest.
The Brits have paid their WWII debt in full.


Now we just have to get the Frenchies to pay up.  Send Tony Soprano over for a chat.
Jackson, no one is showing disrespect to THE OFFICE.  What we object to is the ACTIONS of the executive branch.  The 3 branches are supposed to be equals in power, but with each branch having separate duties and functions.  When the POTUS actively ignores (over 700 signing statements)legislation passed by congress, this shows contempt for the laws and the lawmakers, and by extension, WE THE PEOPLE whom the legislators represent.  

When the executive branch uses the department of justice as a tool to hurt those who don't agree with them, this shows utter contempt for the laws.  

When the executive branch believes, and acts in a manner consistent with a MONARCHY,  not a democratic republic, this causes the electorate to lose confidence in the system that has worked for over 200 years.  

When the executive branch resists every attempt at LEGAL OVERSIGHT, by seeking to abolish the very agencies in charge of providing oversight, this prompts the response "what are they hiding?"

When the office of POTUS claims it is exempt from the very same rules and guidelines which have governed past holders of the office, it makes us all wonder--what have you done, Mr. President, to elevate yourself to the status of KING?

Why aren't we asking the question "Why does our president have so little regard for, and so much contempt for, the laws of our land and the citizens whom the laws affect?"
Oh all right Jackson,

I was raised Republican.  My dear mother and father don't recognize that the GOP abandoned the values I was raised with in the 60's and 70's.  I did recognize and began voting for certain democrats, (We have no required party affiliation in this state).  Everything was OK w/the folks until GWB came to power.

I haven't seen much of them the past seven years.  We've had some heated arguments.  Most everybody else in the family has come around, some divorces were lived through, mouth breathers aren't as attentive as us sensitive liberals.  (remember I used to be GOP so I can throw insults w/the best of them).

I suppose that the hurt isn't that bad.  Personally, I wish my daughter had got to grow up with some knowledge of her grandparents, but she didn't like the way they always tried to change her views and she really kind of avoids them.

It's sad.  It's funny.  As an 11 year old 2001 she had painted on her bedroom window:  "DON'T ATTACK IRAQ"  and "HELP STOMP OUT MAD COWBOY DISEASE" and wouldn't let us wash it off.  Apparantly she has the same foresight as me.
Lee,
Good!  If true.
Lee Holmes - are you a repub. employee or working in the Pentagon?  You sound like a shill of the highest order, otherwise you are the worlds best at picking kernels of news that you want out of the mountain of bad news that comes out of Iraq.  Any US death should be a tragedy in this misled war.  Please do not try and make a saint out of Petraeus.  He is a soldier who recognizes that this war is the last one he will have to attain glory for himself.  What else do you expect him to say other than his surge is working?  I would imagine all of the commanders over there are doing their best to keep this war going as long as they can as it is their last war also.  Your whole piece is nothing more than a paean to the warrior class.  I would hope that we have progressed past that.  What is needed is an emphasis on civilized diplomacy that unfortunately this adminstration is to incompetent to do and the Iraqis are to corrupt to accept.
Jackson, Houston-- How has George Bush affected me personally?

1. His disastrous foreign policy has resulted in the unnecessary death of my young cousin in a helicopter shoot down in Iraq.

2. His war of choice resulted in the wounding of my Son-in-law in an IED explosion in Fallujah.

3. His invasion and occupation of a nation that was no threat to us caused us to drop the ball in Afghanistan , miss the opportunity to catch the REAL enemy, and miss the chance to be in a better position to monitor a Nuclear power that is one bullet away from becoming an Islamic Republic.

4. His reckless, directionless aggression has resulted in a situation where we create more terrorists than we kill.

5. He gives aid and comfort to our enemies by verifying their propaganda about our motives.

6. His ineptitude and incompetence shame us before the world every time he opens his idiot mouth. Did they care about us before? Doesn't matter. They care about us less NOW. They respect us less NOW.

In short he has made the world a more dangerous place for myself and my family and as left a legacy of troubles to my children and grand children that will affect me and my family personally for years to come.

It does matter who is President of the United States. And in picking this loser we have in fact made a huge mistake. Dumb, dull, stupid people have no business in positions of leadership. It is not us that disrespect  the Office of The President of the United States, it is the current pretender that soils it and therefore earns our intense and virulent dislike.
One can only have contempt for that which is contemptible.

Lee Holmes- I love your use of Pluralis majestatis in your last sentence. It really gives you an air of editorial self importance.
Time will tell the story in Iraq. 5 years or 50, When we leave it will do what it wants.  Of course the idea is never to leave. Right?
Dennis: I am neither.I merely trust the soldiers and the combat journalists more than I do a pack of pols and their bovine followers. If this Surge is in actuality, failing, then prove it. Do not waste my time with non sequiturs. Be specific man, as I have been in refuting such contentions. Mere hatred of Bush,[or this ''derangement syndrome''usually bandied about],does not get the job done.
Gary: Perhaps not. We are still in Korea, no? [and Bosnia.And Japan.And Okinawa.And Germany]. The thrust here is to leave giving the Iraqis a better deal than you and your confederates would allow. Namely, genocide. This is a policy I will not countenance. The tables are turning on these bad guys. Live with this fact,if but for a moment.
Most of the Democrats in both the House and in the Senate are far more moderate then their leadership.  A split between these factions is not only possible, but probable if the Surge is moderately successful.  Either way, the moderate wing of the Democratic party is going have to start getting some things done in short order, else they face the angry voters in 2008.
Brown supports Americans dying in Iraq instead of Brits.


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