Barack O'Reagan can't convince 76% of American Democratic primary voters to vote for him.  What on earth makes him think that he can succeed with the leaders and citizens of Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Syria, and Iran?

O'Reagan's fathomless narcissism knows no bounds, it seems.

Self serving! These two Paper Hangers keep voting to spent billions on a Corrupt Iraq Government. We the American tax Payer have no say! And you want new change!!  The only change will be with lies and self serving agenda!  Typical Paper hangers who homestead in Washington!!  What the Hell  """IT'S YOUR VOTE!!!

Why is Obama so afraid to mention Bill's whoring around and Hillary's avoidance of the topic?

Barack Obama's experience: CHECK THIS
For all the idiots who think chnage is not possible, think deep. India won its independence not by force but by sheer march in nonviolence. Yes, many died to the open bullets of the British, but the ones who dies and ones who stood knew someday it would get better. It did. Likewise, the dirty scumbag lobbyists can be pushed out of DC when we can put a man who stands away from them. I know, they are all the same argument. At least try to get a new face and then it will send a shiver to others who practice dirty. Indeed they know they can get 1000's in cash but a vote is 1 vote. Same value as a farmer or a teacher. Thats democracy. If there is no hope, there will be no progress. So stand up and speak for tomorrow. I am inspired by what Obama's are doing. I am not a democrat but a civlized person who is not a citizen. Beat it, everyone is selfish.. but we can do better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4x_KnWEDjs
Clinton's experience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyqAR4lJCmw

Mrs. Clinton has not said she would not talk with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Cuba and Venezuela.  She has only said she would not talk without preconditions.  No leader in his right mind would talk to these leaders without some preconditions, and I don't believe Obama would either.  People, including the candidates, are making too much of this.  Obama misspoke, he knows it, and people are letting him off the hook.  Obama is right to say he would talk to them and I am sure Clinton would also. Clinton did not misspeak, but, again, has made too much of it.  

Bill Clinton commenting on this shows two things:

1.  Obama got under Hillary's skin - and it worked!
2.  The Clinton strategy in the primary has been to show very little distinction and difference on the issues between them and the rest of the candidates.  In doing so, it holds her status as the front-runner.

----

Obama got it right.  Look for him to continue to exploit this issue time and time again.

Hillary's "inevitibility" everday becomes more questionnable.

straight up-please explain what the hell are paper hangers?

Vey good point Paul Ritland. I could only hope other people could understand this.

There was not much difference in their answers to the debate question to begin with. This is why Obama called it a "fabricated controversy" when Hillary accused Obama for being "irresponsible and naive" for giving his answer. Hillary started a fight, thinking to sink Obama, but Obama rose to take advantage of this opportunity to show that he is the "change" leader. The following YouTube video says it all. I am in independent, by the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyqAR4lJCmw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Flittlerockforobama%2Ecom%2F

Paul:
It was 'irresponsible' for Hillary to VOTE FOR THE IRAQ WAR !!!
It was 'naive' of Hillary to trust George Bush to negotiate before commiting agression.
What's hard to understand about that, Paul?

Hillary voted AGAINST Sen. Levin's bill to NEGOTIATE BEFORE INVADING.
Hillary's track record shows that she won't negotiate if it's not politically advantageous to her.
She'll risk war to advance her political agenda.

sf: Food point !!
By Jan 2009, we'll have been through 16 YEARS of political corruption !!
The Clinton 'climate of corruption' and the Republican 'climate of corruption'.

Do we need 4 mores years of unethical and dishonorable Presidencies ?

Bill Clinton could have been Alberto Gonzalez' role model in 'honest' testimony (it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is).

Turn the page.
Let's end this 'cycle of corruption' in Washington !!
No more Whitewater, no more oral sex in the Oval Office !!

To Paul and Aidyn.

This IS a significant difference because the idea of "pre-conditions" in diplomacy essentially means that the other party will agree with at least some of our views or we won't meet them at such a high level.

That is Bush-Cheney-Lite

Of course Bill is going to side with wife DUH!  He remembers that vase she threw at him up at Cape Cod. I guess Obama feels that we already sent one woman (Pelosi) to talk to the Syrians and that did nothing, it's time for a man to go talk to them.  Probably end up doing no better then Pelosi, but what the heck?

Joe - I'm confused again. First, you posted the same message twice (here and on the next thread as well). But the number is one off. Is there a significance to 76 percent versus 77 percent or just a typo?

Then there is the content itself. Are you saying Obama has some terrible personal attributes because he isn't current at 76 or 77 percent in the polls?

And what's the story behind the Barrack O'Reagan name? Are you Hillaryis44 guys countering Bush-Lite by comparing Obama to Reagan? That seems like an odd strategy.

Change of subject: I did like this Sunday's Meet the Press (as someone posted in the next thread, our own Chuck Todd done good there). Also, I can imagine Bill Clinton grabbing his wife by the arm and asking, "are you nuts?" Frontrunners aren't supposed to pick fights, and they certainly shouldn't pick a fight over a topic in which they are likely to get beaten. But I'm guessing she just can't help herself.

My only lament is all this is happening sooner than I'd prefer.

Paul,

Your argument is too intelligent for the American public who will forever remain perpetually the most ignorant but lucky MF's on the face of the Earth.  The fact that bandits in Iraq and Hamas have proven they can withstand the military might of the US and Israel, respectively, we are still convinced that the only strategy we can employ is at the barrell of a gun.

Please, osama has as much chance of winning as the twin towers have of being rebuilt.

Time is proving that Obama got the better of Hilary on this one. In the grand scheme though, this is merely one issue. Still 5 1/2 months away from Iowa and Edwards is still winning the Hawkeye state. Time will tell.

MTP media guests from last Sunday.  Crowded table. The question here is, who represented the Right side of the spectrum?

(Left) Dan Balz - Washington Post and PBS
(Left) Ron Brownstein - LA Times
(Left) John Harwood - NBC and PBS
(Left) Andrea Mitchell - NBC and Hillary's biggest fan
(Left) Eugene Robinson - Wash Post
(Left) Chuck Todd - MSNBC

The discussion did not go well for the Republicans.  Gee, I wonder why?  

Fair and Balanced indeed.

To give you the idea of what some of these Hillary lovers are all about, yesterday on Sean Hannity's radio show, he took a caller who was a big Hillary fan and objected to Hannity talking about her;

Sean:  So what has Hillary Clinton done in the 7 years since she was elected to Senator from New York?  What great thing as she done?

Caller: (silence)

Sean:  So you can't think of a thing she has done well as a Senator from New York can you?

caller:  well, she is a woman

Sean:  so that means she has all the qualifications to be President?

caller:  yes

People;  If you are going to call the conservative talk show hosts and show Hillary in all her glory, please make sure of one thing;

You have something in her record that shows she actually did something as First Lady or Senator!

It is simple.  While bill was in Africa, Hillary became herself and started to campaign like she really is.  No Bill to temper her and help her from making a huge mistake.
Obama won simply because he was right and because if attacked Obama will not sit there and take it.
Obama got to Hillary and made her look worse than she already looked after her comments.
Bill is doing damage control

Whatever these two (Obama and Hillary) say about each other it doesn't really matter until the mainstream media steps up to the plate, do their journalistic jobs and ask both these peeple ""real"" questions instead of giving out free passes.

Please, it is better to understand the meaning of “precondition” within the context of this debate. For example, Israel will not meet with Syria unless they recognize the former as sovereign state. Syria will not enter into discussion with Israel unless they give back “Golan Height” territory they seized during the war. These are the preconditions that prevent the two countries from entering into diplomatic relationship.

These are the types of preconditions Senator Obama was referring to that will not prevent him as US President from meeting these rogue nations. On the other hand, Senator Hillary explained during the debate the processes that will take place before meeting the leaders of these rogue nations. The diplomatic processes to be followed are basic and standard procedures. These diplomatic processes are not the preconditions that stand in the way why US Government cannot meet with these rogue nations. For instance, President Bush initially insisted that his administration would not meet with North Korean unless they abandon their pursuit of building nuclear weapon. Senator Obama says that he would not impose such precondition before meeting the North Korean Government but instead he will meet them and look them in the eye and tell them to abandon the pursuit nuclear project. But before he meets them, there are processes to be followed in terms of diplomatic framework. These processes are the details, which are secondary and are not the preconditions.  

if you go back and listen to obamas comments on issues like the war in iraq before it started (which you can get some of from the various utube links) either this guy is a freking psychic or he is the most incitfull inteligent experianced person to ever bless politics ,and if we dont elect him it will be for one reason only and everybody knows it . his race .Worse, what a lost it would be  for this country.

Well, lets see past debate 'dust Up' polls for SC, NH Iowa from ARG ( who I am always wary of  because their numbers always lean heavy to  favor Clinton).  Having said that this makes this news espicially good for Obama.  He went UP in every poll Clinton went DOWN.

Ok MSM I guess we know who the people thought won the week, debate and the issue!!!!

SC Obama 33 (+12)
  Clinton 29 (-8)

New Hampshire Obama 31 (+6)
             Clinton 31 (-3)

Iowa  Clinton 30 (-2)
     Edwards 21 (-8)
     obama 15 (+2)

I guess we also know NOW why Bill jumped in!!!!

We don't want BUSH LITE. We want Obama.

On message is the only way Bill Clinton speaks in public. His message at DLC: there is no difference among dem candidates. He & her will repeat this mantra over and over again. Obama knows this and correctly continues to emphasize the many differences between the old and the new ways to address very real problems here at home and abroad.

Hey Jerry, I have a question for you and Sean Hannity.  What great thing has George W. Bush done for our country since he's been president?

jerry - I got into a conversation with someone on this point. She responded by giving me a link to a Washington Post article, as a means of proving what Clinton has done in Congress. I guess she didn't think I'd follow that link, because it was a highly critical article.

One of the things I learned there is that Clinton got Tony Blair to "force" Bush into ensuring a DoD helicopter contract went to a New York based contractor. To think, DoD claims its contracts are awarded on the basis of best capabilities for best value.

The article said she was wearing out her rolodex asking/giving favors to provide pork (the article used that word) above the means of most junior senators. I guess this is why she won't publicize her earmarks, huh.

Oh, and the article even said her focus on small constituent pork-barreling isn't out of a desire to take care of her constituents - its a Mark Penn strategy for building up little "workhorse" wins that would compensate for what most know as her failure on a big effort - health care in the early 1990s. Sounds a lot like Rove's political capital theory.

JoeCHI:
What have you done with Carrie?

Did Team Clinton 'disappear' Carrie for telling the truth about Hillary ?

Admitting that Hillary voted for the Iraq War is a serious offense for a Clintonista !!

JoeCHI have you got Carrie in a 'stress position' in the Hillary bunker ?

JoeCHI: FREE Carrie !!
Just when the brainwashing wore off and she started to see the truth !!

Free CARRIE !!
FREE CARRIE !!

Paul - so what you are saying is that Hillary is the  consummate and typical inside the beltway politician.

I'm getting sick and tired of MSNBC and their biased endorsement of Clinton.  They continually post articles from The New York Times, which is obviously another incredibly biased organization.  They report about how great Chelsea would be as a "First Daughter," then criticize Baracks wife about being a, uh, "mother" and "wife" of two children.  Ridiculous biased reporting and I'm sick of it.

Nathan,  read both articles and I agree.  They alwsys have a backhanded way of trying to compliment Michelle( If you can even call it that).

Regarding Chelsea...I try to make it a point not to talk about other peoples children.  Unless I have something positive to say.

Malcolm:
'(Left) Dan Balz - Washington Post and PBS
(Left) Ron Brownstein - LA Times
(Left) John Harwood - NBC and PBS
(Left) Andrea Mitchell - NBC + Hillary's biggest fan
(Left) Eugene Robinson - Wash Post
(Left) Chuck Todd - MSNBC'

Stay off the suds, Malcolm !!
These people AREN'T LEFT !!
They're corporate media insiders !!
You don't get promoted in a giant info-tainment corporations without imitating the 'Incredible Kiss-*aa'.
Sorry, these people are all corporate clones.

You must have mistaken them for Jim Hightower, Ralph Nader, Alexander Cockburn or (even) Ted Kennedy or Barack Obama.

Left my foot!!
Stay off the suds, Malcolm !!

Thank you President Clinton!
I can't wait to put an "Obama-Clinton" or a "Clinton-Obama" bumper sticker on my new car.  So please stop it and be the two America favorites again.

Oh, thats right.  Anyone that works for a corporation cannot be a pure Leftist.  

My mistake.  I guess they are just pseudo-Leftists,
at least until they move to the commune.

If they would have tried hard, Russert should have been able to wedge Gergen and Broder in there somewhere.  That would have been quite the Lefty Lineup.

I'm glad we got that spat over with.  This message of Obama on meeting leaders though might now be permanently apart of his speech.  

"Winning" or "losing" here is really just about how good a message can be made.  His stand is much easier to make a good message with, regardless of if it's considered right or wrong. (Although i do consider it right)

What Hillary can't and won't explain is why she was willing to enable Bush and his war by her vote in the Senate. She was a McCarthy and McGovern supporter during the War in Vietnam. She knew better about wars of choice. Yet she followed Bush and voted for the war to "preserve her political viabiliy" when Bush was riding high in the polls, just as Bill famously did when he manipulated the Arkansas draft board to avoid military service.  The difference is that Hillary's vote allowed a war that has needlessly killed thousands. Now she is following the polls and says she wants to end the war. Which Hillary are we supposed to believe?

If Bill Clinton were in the Senate in 2002, knowing what he knew then would he have voted for the Iraq war?

NO

So the only reason Hillary voted for it is political calculation and fear of been labeled weak.

>> If Bill Clinton were in the Senate in 2002, knowing what he knew then would he have voted for the Iraq war?  <<

Naah, he would have been banging some law clerk.

Hey Juan, the name changes but that puzzling "paper hanger" reference keeps popping up. He or she apparently thinks it is a really cogent zinger, which tells you something right there. It is certainly a good substitute for having to come up with rational thought and discussion. My best guess is that it might be a reference to Hitler? What do you think?

Obama.  Just one word.  That's it.  He's the one.  And to anyone who would vote for a wishy-washy, self-serving politician like Hillary (or even John Edwards for that matter, and I like him) should please consider that ONLY A DIPLOMAT can restore this country to its balance and peace.  Only a true leader, who can speak without plundering and pandering, who can look people straight in the eye and deliver his passion can succeed.  I don't care anymore that people don't think a man of color can win (or even a woman for that fact), I just want some integrity.  Anyone who speaks as clearly and with such passion, with such brightness of character, is a leader embodied, a true statesman.  We can only survive with the health and happiness of our neighbors.  Everyone needs to eat and feel safe at home.  Let's return to that kind of diplomacy.  Please!

In response to sf's comment about why Obama is afraid to mention bill's whoring around and hill's avoidance of it.  BECAUSE: Obama is trying to run a positive campaign, and what other purpose than slander does mentioning that do, besides everyone already knows all about his sex life?  And even though I hate to defend hillary, honestly if that was you, you wouldn't want to talk about it either.  And finally, because Bill Clinton's sex life has nothing to do with the problems facing our country.  And if that's all you have to complain about you better thank what ever god you pray to that your life is so good you can afford to focus on stupid things like that.  

I just want to add that responding to attacks from other candidates explianing your position is not slander he's simply standing up for himself.  try to be more positive people and vote for Obama

Jerry- you might want to consider two things with the Hannity caller:
1) one caller on a radio show does not represent millions of other people, and
2) Hannity has someone screen those calls before he 'picks up' on them, ensuring that if they support his views, or make the oppositon look dumber than hell, they will get through.  Rush does this all the time (at least, with the one or two calls that get on the air at all in a 3 hour period).

"Barack O'Reagan can't convince 76% of American Democratic primary voters to vote for him.  What on earth makes him think that he can succeed with the leaders and citizens of Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Syria, and Iran?"

Well that's because 76% of democratic voters are as dumb as the people who re-elected George Bush.

How can be take early polls seriously when there is such disparity between them.

Bill Clinton was in Dublin, Ireland, over the weekend to host a funraiser function for Hillary. 1,500 Ireland-based Americans attended at $1,500 entrance fee each, all in all 3,500 had applied for tickets.

If Hillary Clinton were running for President of Ireland she would win here by a massive landslide, because of Presudent Bill's huge contribution to the Peace Process in Northern Ireland.

The Irish Mafia on Capitol Hill will support Hillary all the way, as will most all Irish-Americans.

The thinking Irish-American will support Obama, and, as a native Irishman living here in Ireland, I would too.

Hillary's campaign for the Presidency smacks too much of an attempt to set up an American Royal Family, and, as you know, we here in Ireland do not think too much of Royal Families :-)

And despite Hillary's Celeb status she has outlived her time, another time, and there is a danger that she will lapse back into that time.

Obama represents a whole new generation and outlook for America. It looks like he will actually withdraw as President from Iraq and from other foreign adventures. It looks too like he is the man to deal with the Arabs who may well listen to him.

Domestically, he seems to be an indefatigable worker, so much so that one wonders if he ever goes to bed.

He seems particularly strong on Health, Education and Welfare. His foreign interventions would probably be of a benign nature to address famine in Aftica and the like. He is level-headed, particularly on moral issues. And a great orator of intelligence, style, charisma and sincerity.

He does indeed seem to be America's Best Hope.

I wonder, after all of that, how will the Irish vote really go on the ground across America in the 2008 Election ? Can anybody guess ? I think it must stay with the Clintons.

Maybe the Dream Team of Barack Obama for President with Hillary as his V.P.

Now that would certainly beat any team the Republicans could throw up.

And that's the most important question of all that Democrats must bear in mind in the Primaries.

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