ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Last night's debate, er, forum

Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:25 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

The Washington Post: “The debate, which was sponsored by the AFL-CIO, turned into the most animated encounter of the Democratic campaign, suggesting that the battle for the party's nomination may be entering a new phase, one that is likely to grow increasingly contentious after Labor Day. The candidates appeared far more willing to challenge one another directly, and in more pointed language, than in previous debates. Elbows flew throughout the night, and the challengers appeared more eager to mix it up, stoked perhaps by the enthusiasm of a large and boisterous audience.”

The Boston Globe says Democrats “clashed frequently last night on trade, terrorism, and Washington lobbyists, turning a forum meant to address labor union issues into a session filled with attacks and counterattacks on foreign policy and campaign finance.”

USA Today has the dust-up over Pakistan: Clinton criticized Obama “for saying in an Aug. 1 speech that he would consider taking military action against Pakistan if intelligence identified al-Qaeda targets there and President Pervez Musharraf would not act. ‘You shouldn't always say everything you think if you're running for president, because it has consequences across the world,’ she said… Dodd also criticized Obama. ‘Gen. Musharraf is no Thomas Jefferson,’ but he is a U.S. ally, he said. Delaware Sen. Joseph Biden joined the fray. If al-Qaeda set up a base in Iraq after a U.S. withdrawal, he said, ‘All these people who are talking about going into Pakistan are going to have to send your kids back to Iraq.’”

Obama responded, “I find it amusing that those who helped to authorize and engineer the biggest foreign policy disaster in our generation are now criticizing me.”

The Chicago Sun-Times Lynn Sweet notes that like the Bears, Obama had to focus more on defense rather than offense, despite having the homefield advantage. Also Sweet notes that Clinton’s “You shouldn’t always say everything you think” response drew boos.

It's the second time in four days where Clinton has made a statement at a debate or forum that struck us as destined to make its way into attack ads. The Obama folks took particular issue with the "think before you speak" reference because they think Clinton was being very establishment with that line. It's what the Edwards folks think they got Clinton to admit by defending lobbyists. Iowa and New Hampshire Democrats should expect to get versions of Clinton's "think" line and her lobbyist defense line via TV ads and direct mail throughout the fall.

"Again and again, whether the question concerned bridge safety or free trade, Clinton's main rivals tried to drive home a message that she is part of a Washington culture that is delivering results only for the most influential Americans.”

The Politico: “Though the debate was staged in Obama's home state, it was also in a sense Edwards' turf. The 2004 vice presidential nominee has made the strongest pitch to labor leaders, having walking — he said — 200 picket lines in recent years… But he came under sharp attacks from Biden and Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, who tried to paint Edwards as a latecomer to the labor cause.”

The New York Daily News writes that Obama “appeared to win over the hometown crowd with his call to be straightforward with the American people on what he would do militarily as President. However, he flubbed one line when he referred to the Canadian prime minister as ‘President,’ underscoring what Clinton partisans call his inexperience on the world stage.”

The Politico’s Simon writes about the pander-fest. “If you were wondering if there is ever going to be a ‘Sister Souljah’ moment in this presidential race, in which a Democrat actually stands up to a major special interest group, I think you can forget it.”

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

Hillary Clinton has her husband to stand up for her; when he's not around she now has Kerry, Biden, Chris Dodd to help her out.

Senator Obama has to toughen up; all the insiders in DC are going to back Hillary. Every one of them. It was obvious on the Hillary Clinton Show, I mean Chris Matthews Show last night.
Good lord.  "Think before you speak" is an establishment line?  My mother started telling me that when I was 4 or 5 years old.  Does that mean she is part of the "establishment" too?  It's good advice, period.  
Their will alway be consequences for one's actions;however;throughout history the U.S. foreign policy has been to align ourselves with corrupt miltary dictatorship like Musharraf. That is why Obama is right because if we had solely focused on that region of the world;OBL could have; as the Shrub stated years ago "TAKEN DEAD OR ALIVE" Now we have opened pandora's box and are fighting on two fronts. So when Dodd mentioned last night that Musharraf may not be...get this Jefferson as he is rolling in his grave we have no one to blame but us as we continue to allow HISTORY TO  REPEAT ITSELF.
It is now very obvious that the MSM is really really rooting for Sen. Clinton.

Whatever happens to free speech, Sen. Clinton, which people cannot say what they believe is correct because of the consequence around the world? Since when did reaction around the world become what forms your foreign policy decision?

In the time that led to the Iraqi invasion, all these ‘so called foreign policy experts' were all over news program on CNN, FOX  etc, saying why they were going to help George Bush invade Iraq.... Maybe I am missing something here or the 'Foreign Policy and Procedure Manual' has since changed since the invasion of Iraq.

Also, there seems to be some kind of alliance between Sen. Clinton and Sen. Dodd. There was this time when Sen. Clinton winked at Sen. Dodd before Obama gave all of the ‘so called foreign policy experts' (Clinton, Dodd, Biden) the response they deserved.

OBAMA 08.

www.barackobama.com
It's so nice the press is for the most part being so generous to the repeated chorus of boos that greeted Clinton and Biden, not only for not answering questions, but for offending the audience at one point: Clinton with her "you shouldn't say what you think" line, and Biden for blowing off the Sago mine widow in a brazenly tasteless moment.  Had Obama and Edwards gotten the response Clinton and Biden got from the audience, the press would have unanimously been talking about how their campaigns are dead and Hillary is guaranteed.  Clinton and Biden are getting a free ride compared to that treatment.
"Part pep rally, part debate" ALL pander!!!! Moderated by a charming sycophant and followed by---guess what---more pander: Matthews calling Hillary "Majestic." She can be described by many words---calculating, opportunistic, blindly ambitious come to mind. Where is the intellectual honesty? Where is the substance?  Where is FRED?
Bill must have had a meeting before the debate to have Biden and Dodd go after Obama like that.  Must be some cabinet posts at stake for them.
Barack Obama will be a great president because he understands, after more than 6 years of Bush's lies and manipulations, that the American people want someone who will tell them the truth.  He will clean house in Washington and the people, not special interests, lobbyists, and insiders, will have a true voice in their government. Enough of the Bush and Clinton era...for me it is OBAMA IN 2008!
Anyone who pays attention knows that Chris Matthews hates Sen. Clinton and regularly swoons over Sen. Obama.  So, Obamaphiles, if you've lost Chris Matthews, you've lost.
Would someone please explain to me how Hillary came to have her so called "foreign policy experience.

Maybe it is time the press started calling her on this. How is jetting around the world as first lady qualifies.  Was it "pillow talk" with Bill?

She comes across as a stubborn know it all and we don't need another one of those in the White House!!

Why don't we look at the awful mess she made of health insurance because of her secretive attitude and the disdain from the very people she needed to make a success of it.

She is just another beltway insider who will not get elected the more people start to focus again. She was just awful in the debate last night.

Please, someone call her on this foreign policy issue!
DCJOE, to some degree I agree with you...the problem with Chris is in those forums he goes with the wind.  he started out saying Obama's best night etc along with E. Robinson from the Washington Post.  then when Pat came on and said Hillary won or he got the talking points it was oh yeh she was great BLAH BLAH
If Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee, the result will surely be another 4 years of Republican control of the White House. The Republicans want the Dems to run her in 2008.  They fear Barack Obama because he does not have the baggage that Hillary brings to the fight.  He is a new face calling for change.  Hillary's negatives are so high... Her nomination will spell disaster for what is considered to be a very good shot to retake the executive branch from the Bush-Cheney neo-con regime. The American people do NOT want to revisit Whitewater, Vince Foster, Monica, the health plan fiasco of the early Bill years.  Don't give the Repubs what they yearn for... GIVE THEM OBAMA IN 2008!  
Obama doesn't know that Canada has a Prime Minister, not a President?  Embarrassing!
Sorry Obama and Edwards supporters. You're going up against the same machine that's been twisting everything out of context to drag Bush down for the last 6-1/2 years. How does it "feel"? Power over country it's the American Democrat way.
Chris Matthews loves a winner and he thinks that Hillary has it.  It's up to us to prove him wrong.  Obama is the future.  We have to break the hold of the power elite.  Switching out one bulls**tter for another is not the goal.  This is our country and we have to take it back.  No more money from lobbyists.  No more arguing about process (come on, Howard, when Obama pledged not to attack candidates personally he didn't mean to give a them a pass on nebulous or bad policy).  Let's hear the candidates' real postion on issues.  If Musharraf can't take care of the terrorists in his northwest provences then we certainly will.  Let's not be coy.  We're not 'telegraphing' the terrorists about anything they don't know.  They hit us and they know that we're going to destroy them.  The problem is that this war in Iraq was a diversion with disasterous consequences (as Obama predicted).  Obama is right. We have to redeploy and take care of the real problem.  Real and transparent leadership is the answer.  
Obama '08
Obama '08
Obama '08
All the dems showed a positve outlook with a vision for the future that reflects on true American values, their differences were minor and compared to all the bush lites(whos vision is one of fear and darkness) they were all heads and shoulders above the repubs.
The American people are clearly looking for CHANGE in 2008.  Few see our country moving in the right direction.  The 2006 election was just a precursor of things to come.  Hillary Clinton is NOT change.  She is more of the same.  She is as much a "uniter" as GW!  We cannot afford another 4 or 8 years of partisan bickering while the nation goes to hell.  In the end, a Clinton nomination will result in handing the Republicans the White House on a silver platter!  
"Since when did reaction around the world become what forms your foreign policy decision? "

Like it or not, we do not live in a vacuum - what we do as a nation has repercussions around the world.  It would be grossly irresponsible for our leader, whoever that may be, to not consider those repercussions when making foreign policy decisions.  Think about what Hillary was saying.  Is it more important for the U.S. to capture/kill bin Laden, or is it more in our best interests to make sure that Islamic extremists such as the Taliban and Al Quaeda do not come to power in Pakistan and gaina access to nuclear weapons?  I think that answer to that is obvious.  I absolutely think it is important that we find bin Laden, but we must not be reckless in how we go about that.  
As an Independent, what is the difference between large groups such as unions that give money and endorsements to candidates and lobbyists, both of whom expect to have legislation skewed in their favor (i.e., a special interest)?  In effect, doesn't anyone who works for a company, the governement, a lawyer, a doctor, a teacher, etc. have someone or some group who lobbies for them?
DCJOE,
If you are trying to somehow convince some people that Chriss Mathews "Hates" Clinton, then my friend you need to watch him everynight like I do. to be honest with you, I believe that Chriss Mathews is the reason that MSNBC can not get a broad audience. He is Pro Clinton everynight and his guests are all Clintonites as well. How insulting it is when someone tells that the true "Loser" is winner on a debate that you just finished watching. MSNBC got good talents but they need to show some integrity or else they'll continue to lose loyal audiences like ME.
As a Canadian visiting your country my compliments to the USA on the gloves off, plain talk quality of the debate. Obama I like, Clinton is like the Canadian Liberals (sometimes indistinguishable from their Conservative opponents) Edwards came off well and it's interesting that Canadian unions and workers feel the same way about NAFTA as US workers.

PS Biden callously ignoring the widow who was asking about worker safety was the lowlight of the evening.
President Hillary Rodham Clinton!!
It will be very interesting to see how folks react when the largest grass roots campaign in history finally makes their voice heard.

Donors and crowds are concrete numbers. Polls are a weak tool for marketing research and their samples have no actual reflection on the general public.

It is very, very easy to knock the only candidate who has laid out policies while never actualy stating your  own. And the whole hypotheticals. Is "If I'm elected president". Not one of those?
Guys,
I thought you were posting comments related to the subject! Oh I guess MSNBC doesn't like to be criticized. Thanks for providing a useless service!!
August has been interesting so far. I must say, there goes all the fall and winter TV lineup. The political debates are going to make for good soap opera and sitcom every night till Feb

Its also obvious that Mrs Hillary's only offense is naivete and experience over Obama. But I have to wonder, how does 8 years as first lady makes one more experienced? She does a fews more in the senate - but then Barack was on the illinois legilative. So Barack has to make a better case than he has todate on the experience. Clinton's are using FUD on the experience and Barack has to be on the offensive in a much smarter way than he has.

As it has been shown, experience has nothing to do with being president. Character, leadership and integrity are the primary qualifiers...
Did anyone else catch the part in the debate where Hillary said we should not go after bin laden in Pakistan because Mushareff has nuclear weapons? But she thought Saddam Hussein had nuclear weapons, that didn’t stop her from voting to go into Iraq. Seems hypocritical to me. In addition I have to say the coverage by Chris Matthews last night was awful. He is so caught up in Clinton it’s pathetic. He actually sat there and for 10 minutes was amazed that she said “I’m your girl”. Who gives a S***. Let’s talk about some issues that matter to the public instead of focusing on these one-liners.
Aside from the asinine moderator...who asked such penetrating questions as: "If Barack Obama would invite Barry Bonds to the White House if he broke the home run record" and "If becoming president, would any of the candidates be upset if another politician started campaigning against them immediately after their inauguration?"... With all of the issues surrounding the nation is that the best this air-head, exiled, B- grade, sports commentator could come up with??? What a disgrace.

That aside, I feel that Clinton's position as a front runner is being remarkably over inflated by the pundants.....She has shown that she's not willing to answer the tough questions, with anything more than political pander....when posed direct questions about her ridiculous comment about "Lobbyist's are real people too"...She side stepped the issue completely and spouted some canned line about cleaning up Washington......Which if you look back was one of her Husband's main topics when running for the same office.....Not only didn't he do any such thing, he became, and is, one of the most prominently lobbyist aligned Past Presidents in History....

Certainly, she's in lock-step with Dodd and Biden, "the old wink and a nod group" ... They're all old establishment, knowing full well, they don't have a prayer at truly being a serious front running candidate, so they're sliding towards Clinton hoping to gain some favoritism crumbs, if she happens to get into office.... So, as all good little sycophants do, they take up her bidding and go after Obama.....To that end, is Chris Matthew's fishing for the job of Press Secretary?? What's happened to his objectivity or Hard Balls???

I feel as the only other viable option, Obama needs to aggressively press Clinton on her Lobbyist comments and in a definitive, point by point fashion, what is it that she's going to do to "clean up Washington?" Take her to task on her faux pax about not candidly talking to the American public... (which on face value sounds remarkably like what we have with Bush-Cheney). Old school politicians (like the Clintons, Dodds and Bidens of the world) will spout off endlessly about doing this and doing that, telling every faction what they want to hear...until pressed on the issues, then, instead of offering up their plans, they fall back on attacking Bush's record.....

The more I listen and watch these "debates" We need change and accountability, not more of the same insider type politics, that have, and are plaguing this nation....In answer to that, I would suggest that the American public vote on a series of issues, to be covered in-depth...(How can anyone present a position, or a plan, in 60 seconds??) and take one topic per debate...i.e., "Healthcare, Iraq or Immigration" and then break each topic into it's salient points and give each of the candidates the opportunity to present their outlines in advance, have them posted in the newspapers, on the internet.....and in a two hour segment, be questioned at length on their individual plans or thoughts and let them stand on those comments after gaining office.....What we currently have is nothing but forum for, "you said, he said", snippets and sound-bytes, accusations and finger pointing with absolutely no substance......

This country desperately needs change.....But, we certainly have to be more informed than the likes of last night's (and the rest of the televised debates) to make an informed decision on precisely what changes we're going to make, or, is it going to continue to be more of the same.........
I watched the discussion and did not see biden blow off the widow he answered in a very positive way as i recall.
It was Hillary all the way last night. It may be painful to some, but she showed maturity and willingness to discuss real issues, from the mess that W has made of the war and in our own beloved country, to health care, and to international power struggles that will have to be addressed. She has the fortitude to get health care on the big agenda and she will be in a position to get it done.  I for one want an experienced woman of sensibilities in the White House rather than a do nothing/know nothing who believes that god tells him what course to take. I want a knowlegeable politico who knows when to speak and when to shut up. Perhaps those who can't bear her becoming the first woman president would feel more comfortable moving to Iraq where they can experience the freedoms that abound there.
I hope you're able to post this. Get this for a 'movie of the week'....KILL BILL VOL.3
Conspiracy theory...Say there's this former President(Bill)who sleeps around on his wife(Hillary) ALOT. AND say Hillary finally gets tired of it, especially since the only time she ever cheated on her husband, the guy(Vince),mysteriously turns up dead. Kinda makes you think what Tony Soprano would have done had he known about the Principal Carmella slept with, for you Sopranos fans. Anyway, she finally takes all the embarrasment she can and shames Bill into helping her be the FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT!!
He of course has to agree because of massive guilt, and he wanted a chance to try out the Lincoln Bedroom this time, wink~wink. We know how Slick Willy thinks. YEAH BOY! Unbeknownst to him however was Hillary's ultimate plan to use the run up and the Presidency to KILL BILL! She starts using him more and more and using all the contacts she gained thru him to get ahead; at the same time trashing a bright Kennedyesque competitor. Behind Bill's back however, Hillary conspires with other Dem.Candidates(Biden, Dodd, Kerry,etc.)unelectable and powerhungry and the Republicans, who happen to REALLY HATE HIM, to gain the nomination and the Presidency. The Rich Republicans gladly giving up the Presidency(sorry Rudy), to get a chance to KILL Bill and get all the illegal labor they want. Bill who has a VERY BAD heart condition(believe it folks), is just jazzed about touring in the states again(having come off a recent European tour)and looking over his "prospects". Against his doctor's orders he just can't help but insert himself more politically, AND HILLARY KNOWS IT!! Of course he eventually has the massive coronary and dies, which ends up getting Hillary(know matter how she's doing)FOUR MORE YEARS! THE END. SO whaddya all think? Kinda funny when you think about it. It might have to be on HBO. So in the end what do we learn from this...RUN BILL RUN!! VOTE OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA!  
Obama proves that he is the true Front-Runner.. lol everyone knows that polls are not accurate.....take Kerry's nomination... he was behind like 12 points and won the nomination and Gore was leading in the polls for election and lost...lol....i dont see how polling 1,000 or a little more can represent the whole country.
All Democrats should want a candidate that will bring change to Washington yet is experienced in domestic policy and foreign affairs and will carry Democrats nationwide to victory in House and Senate races along with retaking the White House.  Only Bill Richardson offers Democrats all three qualities:  change, experience and electability.
I am a Chris Mathews fan and I am truly disappointed with his volte-face!  How nice to see Chris crooning over Hilary's experience when we all know how much Chris criticized the Clintons all along! The media has a huge role to play in these elections and the way they are underplaying the boos of the public to Hilary's comments once again reiterates why we are in the situation that we are in today.
Chris, you showed us your new side....I am not sure I trust you as much as I did before as I always thought you sided by responsible journalism. Apparently not. Truly disappointing.
Good Lord. You mention, in he headline to this, that trade was one of the main issues and, then, blow it off completely! Look, trade, in particular criticism pof "free trade" and "globalization" WAS THE KEY ISSUE. It has been THE KEY issue in the past several meetings candidates have had with labor and at the Kos bloggers convention. All of these groups think that free trade is a disaster and want it ended!!!! - outsourcing jobs, bringing in guest workers to displace Amercian workers, the H1-B and L-1 visas. I know Bill Gates owns MSNBC and we all know he wants to bring in millions more young Indian workers, but 20 to 30 percent of AMERICAN computer programmers and engineers are out of work and you have some sort of obligation to report on this and report that labor, that engineers, that the Programmers Guild are all opposed to not just bringing in more of these indentured servants, they want the program ended!. At least report accurately, that this was the main issue, and cease with the distortions!!!!!
Bill in NoVa,
You're absolutely right...lobbyists and unions are one in the same and I don't understand how bashing lobbying groups in front of the AFL-CIO could possibly benefit a candidate.  I'm amazed that people don't realize that just about all of us benefit from the lobbying of some group or another.  Whether its a federally recognized lobbyist, a union or a company's government 'liason' all of us have someone lobbying for our interest in some fashion or another.  Likewise, many of us have people who are paid to lobby against us on behalf of corporate profits, etc.  The question that should be asked of candidates isn't IF they support lobbyists in general but rather which ones they're willing to stand up to.  Lobbying is, for better or worse, part of the game and a president needs to be able to manage those they support and stand up against those they don't.  Hillary by far seemed to demonstrate this knowledge in the debate.  
Calculating, manipulative, cold, bitchy. These are the words I'd use to describe Senator Clinton. It describes why she stood silently by Bill's side during Monica-gate, it explains why she moved from Arkansas to New York to run for the Senate, and it describes the kind of President she will be. She will be the female Dick Cheney. Everything she has done has been for this moment.

She has ZERO experience in foreign policy (sitting in on a few committee meetings and travelling with other Senators doesn't count, not since you don't read NIE documents before voting) other than flying with Bill and going on a couple BS trips to Baghdad since going to the Senate. Would someone in the MSM grow the balls and call her on this. Please? *taptap* Is this thing on???

Please stop kissing her rear end and giving her a free pass to the nomination. That is doing the other candidates and us, the voters, a huge disservice.
Uh, Steven, you better watch yourself or Hillary will start talking about a "vast left wing conspiracy."
Joe Biden was the strongest in this debate, as he has in been in every debate.  He has knowledge and experience superior to every candidate.  It is not even close.  Hillary and Obama are toddlers compared to what Joe knows and what Joe plans to do.  Let's stop listening to the BS that comes out of the front runners mouths (Obama, Clinton, and Edwards) and listen to someone who is truly honest and truly cares (Biden).  He could be just as indebted to special interests and get those same endorsements, but Biden is running and honest campaign.  Sad to see honesty gets you nowhere.

BIDEN 08
If you take out Bill Clinton, there isn't much leadership in HRC. HRC talks about change, and change does not come when she is soaked with more 20 yrs in Washington. And we know her for too many years, one too many affairs. It is time to turn the page on Washington.

Real change comes with Obama!
The Amercian people, as a whole, are upset about "free trade" and "globalization". But, once again MSNBC is apparently purposefully censored the main substance of this debate. It was about free trade and globalization ands the negative impact this has had on jobs. Why are you people do this?

I want to point out a little headline that just popped up. Some people in Congress have started to get a little concerned about the wholesale outsourcing of our jobs and technology and have started to come around to labors way of thninking about this. The headline, then, is that China, with it holdings of 1.33 million dollars has threatened to cause the dollar to crash! Inida, by the way, has JOINED them unless we INCREASE the number of H1-B and other guest worker visas! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/08/07/bcnchina107a.xml

Now, to say that this is dangerous is an understatement. The warnings that I and other people opposed to globalization and free trade have been sounding for some time are coming true right before you eyes. You want a forum topic? This is it! You want headline news for MSNBC? This is it! But you people appear dead set on ignoring it. Look, the "free traitors", the outsourcing crowd, the "brilliant" Bill Gates, and the rest of the globalization crowd, have sold this countries future down the road. Apparently, right now, there is a price to be paid for all of those profits they made, and WE ARE GOING TO PAY IT! Understand that this is a far greater threat to the survival of this country than Al Qaida and all of the ragtag terrorist groups in the world.
Biden did not blow off the lady,he answered her; although I admit in a brief manner, and then commented on the question that Obama and Dodd had been arguing about.  I think he became a bit iritated because Obama was taking credit for "new" ideas that were not new at all,but are already in effect,thanks to Biden.
Though I admire Senator Clinton, I have to say that in the end folks, she is not going to represent the kind of shaking loose of the establishment that is desperately needed in our government.  Congressman Kucinich does but, sadly stands no chance against even the most un-electable of the Republican candidates....  and I'm afraid the rest of the Democratic field end up in that last category for me.  Sentaor Obama can lead the revolutionary kind of change that is needed.  Don't fall for the "inexperienced" hype....  (Do you really believe that Barack Obama doesn't know that Canada has a prime minister versus a president?  Put yourself under that pressure on that stage and tell me that simple slip isn't easy to make.) Let's make the kind of sweeping, inspiration driven change happen in 2008 that JFK brought to this country in 1961.  Barack Obama is my man.
Edwards couldn't be elected dog catcher in a national election against anybody, yet Obama is the one candidate that the GOP wants to face because of the obvious color of his skin. He wouldn't win a single former confederate state (which was what propelled Bush to winning the electoral college despite losing by over 500,000 in 2000). Anybody who says or thinks that the color of a your skin doesn't play a part in American presidential politics is delusional. To all the people on the blogs who talk all the endless trash about republicans or democrats-our political system is broken and owned by special interests- we all know it, so let's not pretend ANYBODY is an outsider. Edwards first won election to the senate by a very slim margin against the ancient Lauch Faircloth- spending millions of his own money!!! Edwards is a legend in his own mind- it's funny how Hillary will get the nomination then it will be the battle of the NY'ers Hillary- Rudy. I give Dennis Kusinich the biggest props! A young wife less than half his age with a stud in her tongue! ALL IN JUST TWO DATES! He gets my props for that!Here in Texas, the front page of the Houston Chronicle has Bonds hitting a ball out of a park for a record, the day before it was a few people that were killed on a bridge collapse! Why not show all the sick people that have no health care here in Texas! Harris County ranks the worst in the entire nation with almost 60% of the residents having NO HEALTH COVERAGE. Almost 30% of the children in Texas have no health insurance and the state ranks 50th in states to live for children! It ranks first per capita in domestic violence, teen pregnancy and children in the foster care system, yet 7 of the top 10 richest pastors in American all are right here in Texas! And never once will you hear the God of self help- Joel Osteen, talking about the above problems to his followers- NOPE- it's just Jesus on a plasma and God wants all to prosper and be happy. And to former Republican Congressman Joe Scarborough- you love talking trash all the time about Obama, Hillary and other democrats, I ask you to simply explain what happed to  Lori Klausutis? As to family values Senator Vitter- client of the year at the whore houses- LMAO- you are the perfect Republican poster child!          
oohhh, Mike, another male who hates women. You're showing your true colors. What do you want to do to her?
Biden absolutely did blow off the Sego miner's widow for his own self-aggrandizement.  That's typical for him.  His balloon-like ego, is a character trait that precludes him from being a successful president.  Obama comes across as modest, thoughtful and intellegent.  He is also aggressive when appropriate.  The fact that he is not beholding to the insiders is what makes him the agent of change.  Hillary is the most over-rated candidate in the field.  Those who want her as president in order to break the gender barrier should get over it.  Most people who are democrats would have no problem with a woman chief executive.  Still, to choose Hillary simply because she is a sister, is faulty reasoning.  She is as corrupt as they come.  Just look at her history in The Rose Law Firm.  And remember, she voted for authorization of this corrupt war.  She was either naive in not believing that Bush would automatically take us to war or she was disingenuous by positioning herself as a hawk in order to stem criticism from the right wing.  She admits that she did not read the 90 page report of the NIE (casting doubt on the existance of Sadam's arsenal) before this, the defining vote of her career.  See Obama's speech (October 2002).  He correctly predicted the disasterous consequences of the most erroneous foreign policy decision in the history of the United States.
Obama '08
Clinton and Biden answered the questions intelligently and honestly, knowing the crowd wouldn't necessarily agree.  The others answered for cheers and applause.  I'll take the former over the latter any day.
As usual Kucinich wond the debate and as usual the media only talks about hillary and obama and occasionally edwards. Kucinich had the best crowd reaction, the clearest ideas and, proposals and the most integrity but he is not beholden to the powers that be so they either ignore him or ridicule his looks!Last time they did that was with Lincoln.
I fear our country is totally in the hands of the media moguls and they only want tweedledum and tweedledee to run. We need Kucinich, a man of integrity and vision. He doesnt have to apologize for his vote on the Iraq war since he had the foresight to oppose it from the beginning.
I think that it’s highly hypocritical to start an argument like Hillary did when she first attacked Obama, and then when your hatchet men (Bidden/Dodd) escalate the argument, to step back and smugly claim to above the fray. Hillary has many great qualities but every time I start warming up to her she pulls a stunt like this and I realize that nothing has changed…she’s just as cold and calculating as she’s ever been.

Obama did a good job last night. He started off cautiously but when it came to the foreign policy discussion, he really fired up. It was great to see him stand toe to toe with the old-guard (Hillary/Bidden/Dodd) and come across as someone who is intelligent, open and honest.

However, while Obama performed well, the winner of the debate was clearly Dennis Kucinich. He was the “union man” that Edwards should have been. His performance actually prompted me to look up some of his policy positions on trade and while some of his positions may be too left-wing, they are intriguing nonetheless.
The more Obama is exposed to real politics the more I realize how truly inexperienced he is. I think perhaps down the road (way down)he may work but no way is he Presidential material now.
Look, I think Obama is an intelligent rising star in the Democratic Party, and I am excited to see his ascension, but he is not quite ready to be our next president.  He's just not. I do not question his integrity, his ingenuity, and his courage. However,  I think he lacks the wisdom, saviness, and prudence that is absolutely essential in our next president.  The state of the world is ever so more dangerous.  I'd love to see him as our presidential candidate 4 or 8 years down the road.  Right now, Hillary Clinton is our best choice (flaws and mistakes included).  Let's stop making a mountain out of a mohill.  Giving pause before you speak and cautiously editing your statements upon the world stage is not "deceitful" or "establishment" - it's prudent and wise. Let's unite behind our democratic candidate whomever it turns out to be (I will glad transfer my support from Clinton to Obama if he gets the nomination).  We cannot afford another Republican Presidency.  There is too much at stake!


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=308884

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google