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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Last night's debate, er, forum

Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:25 AM by Domenico Montanaro
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The Washington Post: “The debate, which was sponsored by the AFL-CIO, turned into the most animated encounter of the Democratic campaign, suggesting that the battle for the party's nomination may be entering a new phase, one that is likely to grow increasingly contentious after Labor Day. The candidates appeared far more willing to challenge one another directly, and in more pointed language, than in previous debates. Elbows flew throughout the night, and the challengers appeared more eager to mix it up, stoked perhaps by the enthusiasm of a large and boisterous audience.”

The Boston Globe says Democrats “clashed frequently last night on trade, terrorism, and Washington lobbyists, turning a forum meant to address labor union issues into a session filled with attacks and counterattacks on foreign policy and campaign finance.”

USA Today has the dust-up over Pakistan: Clinton criticized Obama “for saying in an Aug. 1 speech that he would consider taking military action against Pakistan if intelligence identified al-Qaeda targets there and President Pervez Musharraf would not act. ‘You shouldn't always say everything you think if you're running for president, because it has consequences across the world,’ she said… Dodd also criticized Obama. ‘Gen. Musharraf is no Thomas Jefferson,’ but he is a U.S. ally, he said. Delaware Sen. Joseph Biden joined the fray. If al-Qaeda set up a base in Iraq after a U.S. withdrawal, he said, ‘All these people who are talking about going into Pakistan are going to have to send your kids back to Iraq.’”

Obama responded, “I find it amusing that those who helped to authorize and engineer the biggest foreign policy disaster in our generation are now criticizing me.”

The Chicago Sun-Times Lynn Sweet notes that like the Bears, Obama had to focus more on defense rather than offense, despite having the homefield advantage. Also Sweet notes that Clinton’s “You shouldn’t always say everything you think” response drew boos.

It's the second time in four days where Clinton has made a statement at a debate or forum that struck us as destined to make its way into attack ads. The Obama folks took particular issue with the "think before you speak" reference because they think Clinton was being very establishment with that line. It's what the Edwards folks think they got Clinton to admit by defending lobbyists. Iowa and New Hampshire Democrats should expect to get versions of Clinton's "think" line and her lobbyist defense line via TV ads and direct mail throughout the fall.

"Again and again, whether the question concerned bridge safety or free trade, Clinton's main rivals tried to drive home a message that she is part of a Washington culture that is delivering results only for the most influential Americans.”

The Politico: “Though the debate was staged in Obama's home state, it was also in a sense Edwards' turf. The 2004 vice presidential nominee has made the strongest pitch to labor leaders, having walking — he said — 200 picket lines in recent years… But he came under sharp attacks from Biden and Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, who tried to paint Edwards as a latecomer to the labor cause.”

The New York Daily News writes that Obama “appeared to win over the hometown crowd with his call to be straightforward with the American people on what he would do militarily as President. However, he flubbed one line when he referred to the Canadian prime minister as ‘President,’ underscoring what Clinton partisans call his inexperience on the world stage.”

The Politico’s Simon writes about the pander-fest. “If you were wondering if there is ever going to be a ‘Sister Souljah’ moment in this presidential race, in which a Democrat actually stands up to a major special interest group, I think you can forget it.”

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Comments

Bunny, that's okay. I'd fit that into the script somewhere. I mean it is all fiction of course. Right?
BTW, where is Fred? I keep hearing about his wife, but not him. Which one is running again? Just kiddin, couldn't resist. Great comments on Clinton!
See folks different sides can agree. It just happens to be about Hillary being an awful choice. Hillary supporters better take note...alot of us Dems. would rather not support anyone than to vote for Hillary. She can't bring us together, let alone the entire country, which is desperately what we need. AND the Republicans KNOW IT!! Those women who have written in and said they would vote for Hillary because she's a woman are an enigma to me. If that is as far as the Democratic women in this country have come, then get ready for alot of switching to the Independent category. I would vote for the "RIGHT" woman in a heartbeat, but Hillary ain't her.

It's important to note again FL's comment about Hillary's hypocritical statement about not going after terrorists because Pakistan has nukes. GOOD CALL!! Didn't she think Sadaam had nukes, but she authorized going after him. He attacked his own people. Of course MSNBC refuses to go after her on this or mention it at all. How can Barack even with all his non-coporate money stand up against Gates and Murdoch? I'll tell ya how.....ALL OF US!!!
OBAMA/Edwards '08!!!! The Dems. can have the White House for the next 16 years with this ticket which is something else the Republicans know. Not true with Hillary who can't even bring the Dems. together.
I hope the Hillary supporters consider this before they put GENDER before our country's needs.
I believe Obama is not seasoned enough to be President.  When he stated that he would talk leaders in Venuzuala, Iran and others immediately when he became President, he showed his naivety.  I believe Obama's advisors misinterpreted naivety that as weakness; therefore the comment about storming Pakistan to get bin Laden was a purely political statement to show Obama was strong.  Bad and naive move.  Sounding a little like clueless President Bush.(I say that respectfully, Mr. President)

The fact is that if bin Laden's exact location was found, US troops--that secret force, along with an Israili secret force and other possibly other secret forces would covertly along with Pakistan's secret force go and attempt to kill bin ladin and the others.  

So Hillary was right, you don't shout it to the rooftops  that you would invade another country.
Ultimately Oscar, I believe your take on things here will prevail and I'll not hesitate for a moment to transfer my support from Obama to Clinton should she win the nomination...  But, in the primaries I'll go with the more idealistic and truly inspiriational(but, more realistic than the totally idealistic Kucinich), candidate with the notion that this groundswell could carry him forward much the way of JFK's bringing of hope and vision did.  Barack can surround himself with decades of wisdom and, something tells me he's a good listener and a fast study.
I agree with those blogs that feel that the Media has all but given this race to Hilliary Clinton.   Hardball has called it for her everytime there is a debate. Remember she is much more intelligent than anyone else up their and oh soo experienced.  Everyone else should just go home.   I also feel that Sens. Biden and Dodd have already drawn a line in the sand to support Sen. Clinton, so they are now circuling the wagons to also make sure that she has the the complete edge over  Sen. Obama.   It is so obvious that people are really afraid that Sen. Obama would truly have a chance to become President of the United States.   Look for the Democrats to eat their own once again.   No one needs to look any further than the debacle of the Governors race in California on how they ate their own.  They don't seem to know how to think outside the box and just maybe someone different might be the one.    Once again why do we the people of America need the Whitehouse concentrated in the hands of just 2 families?  
I agree with those who are saying that Obama is not quite ready yet.  Whether you want to admit it or not, he does have a tendency to make statements that later require clarification.  As I said in another post, when you are president you are not always going to have the opportunity to clarify your statements.  "Oh but I meant this..." is not going to go over very well on the world stage.  

I appreciate what Obama is about, and I agree that we need a change from the Bush regime.  It's not that I think we are not ready for someone like Obrama; it's that I think Obama is not ready for this job.  He seems like a very nice man, an incredible speaker, and he clearly has a brilliant future ahead of him.  I just don't believe that future should include being the Democratic nominee in the 2008 presidential election.  
I am baffled as to why people think Obama is a progressive.  Just as it is dangerous to assume Hillary is the frontrunner it is wrong to label Obama as "anti establishment".  Upon further inspection Mr. Obama is "Hillary lite". On social issues they are in agreement and even when it comes to general views on foreign policy there is little difference(the recent scuttle included) .  Obama says he wants "a change" but I have yet to see that visionary zeal manifested into policy.  He does not have a bold agenda like RFK nor does he have the experience to be running our country. A young face is not enough to sell me and I'm 26 years old.  
Wrong statement about what Obama SAID and what Biden said afterwords.

Obama never said he would invade/attack Pakistan.  He said it the president there didn't act on intelligence HE WOULD.

Biden pointed out - which you media want to IGNORE - there's a LAW that HE wrote saying we'd go into Pakistan if need be.  Same thing Obama's saying.
Connie, I wonder if Clinton voted for that law?
NOW THAT THE CLINTON'S HAVE ENOUGH MONEY WHY DO THEY NEED TO RUN THE COUNTRY AGAIN, THEY JUST WANT POWER
Hillary Clinton is UNELECTABLE!  If the Dems run her in 2008, we will ne looking at another 4 or 8 years of Republican control of the White House.  The President needs to work with both political parties to get anything accomplished.  Hillary simply would not get the job done...too polarizing a figure.  Give Obama a chance.  He is fresh. He is a new face espousing change.  That is something the American people are desperate for...after nearly 7 years of the present Fiasco-in-Chief.  Whoever becomes our next President will have his/her work cut out for him/her.  Electing an African American will send a clear signal to the rest of the world that the USA truly has "turned the page". OBAMA IN 2008!
Did Biden and Hillary think they were Vito Corleone when they essentially told Obama not to tell anybody outside the family what you are thinking regarding whacking terror suspects in Pakistan if Musharrif doesn't do it? Maybe Bin Laden is now Barzini and it was Barzini all along.
In my humble opinion, the most important thing to regard in choosing the right candidate for the presidency is the relative development of the individual careers.  Their characters are defined by the stands that they have taken on issues and how they have tried to achieve their goals.  I recommend that y'all ignore the 10 second sound bites.  It just encourages showboating and bad behavior by the candidates.  Make your choice based on their substance and not by their noise (or the noise of their spinners).  If you pay attention to the superficial qualities we'll wind up with another Bush.  By the way Kucinich is a showboater.
Obama '08
Lance, thanks for the implicit nod in regards to the overarching goal for us Dems.  I have to take slight issue with your assessment.  A president, a leader, surrounds him or herself with smart, trusted advisors who have a mastery of the facts, good intuition about the nuances, and effectively make recommendations to him or her.  However, great leadership requires the wisdom to assess and navigate through these recommendations and then the saviness and prudence to deliver that message on the world stage.  That is the fundamental difference between a great leader and a smart advisor.  Call her calculating, scripted, or even cold, but Hillary Clinton is clearly on a different plane when it comes down to these fundamental qualities - wisdom and prudence.  I'm not taking anything away from the man, but Barack Obama is just not there yet and we're seeing some glimpses of it. Clinton is our best choice, but I will enthusiastically support Obama in the general election, if democratic primary voters think otherwise.
I kid you not, while listening to the debate on an XM channel yesterday, I heard a commentator explain the “boos” Hilary received for her unbelievable answer of "As president, you can't say what you think" answers as “oohhs”; SAY WHAT????

She’s really capitalizing of the political clout the Bill Clinton has built up! And by the way, why do Black Americans feels that the Clintons best represent them? What have they done for you?
It's now clear that you cannot trust anything Hilary says!  Obama got it right... it's about time we had a politician of some real public standing being honest with the public.  That's why it is so important to have guys like Denis Kucinich, Ron Paul and Ralph Nader in these debates.
Hillary/Edwards wins by a landside in '08!!!
My choice would be Kucinich and Dodd.
Hillary, Obama, and rest of the Democrat candidates have become increasingly and painfully tiresome with their recitations of political palaver.  They express much criticism for this defunct administration, when in fact, they are just as responsible for getting us embroiled in the Iraq debacle along with Cheney/Bush & Co.  Trust me….if any of them are successful in getting into the White House, it will not change a thing and we’ll see a repeat of what has befallen us the last five years.  Deja vu all over again!  

Truthfully, What was the purpose in building a mammoth U.S. Embassy in Baghdad when bridges in this country are desperately in need of repair?

The only candidates who did address the most important issues of healthcare, education, crime prevention, employment, consumer product safety, infrastructure, homeland and border security, etc. were Kucinich and Dodd. As for the rest, they are nothing but LOSERS!!!!
It is beyond me to hear all this rheotric about this illegal invasion of Iraq costing Billions of Dollars, when this War has given the US the right to stay for, "Gods" name for how long in the Middle East War Zone? Many times I have said the only purpose for our "All Volunteer Military and Citizen Soldiers" was to establish a permanent military presense and with that "Colossal Embassy" assuring the world we are the Super Power.

But all was lost in that AFL-CIO debate when Steve, that victim of Bankruptcy filing of LTV steel company and the top management got the cream and the workers got greased and lost their pensions and health care, this is happening all over America, but those with jobs will not realize what is happening until they lose their jobs.  

Not many people were worried about some manufactoring jobs were lost, everyone thought that the service, business and government could take up the slack.  After all those who had jobs with good pay were saying it couldn't happen to me. Read Byron Dorgan book titled "Take this job and ship it. Look at what has happened to America.

Todays 8/9/07 7,000 jobs cut, new claims for unemployment, with 2.56 million still collecting benefits just this week.  Whether America understands it or not, everything that has been gained in the past has flown the coup to other countries. Steve, that disabled LTV steel worker is a perfect example of just how those who recieved those refund checks totaling $1.75 Billion Dollars to the top 2%  wage earners have waited until almost the bottom to put that money in businesses. Where in the "Hell" were they when our workers need that tax gift, it took nearly 6 years to wait to see how low the economy and jobs could go before investing in America.

Don't forget that they only pay taxes on the adjusted gross income, so they already get multi-million dollars tax breaks that you and I don't have that same priviledge. Why is it NOLA was swamped only to find out that $14 Billion that was the Army Corp of Engineers was diverted to other projects, like addition locks on the Mississippi for anticipated barge traffic in "2026". Or why was the life of bridges built was for 25 years and now many are over 45 years old. You, who have the nerve to blame the union workers for the collapse of the job market should look at Ken Lay, Bernie Ebbers, Kowalski, Millcan, Boskey and yes Jack Walsh of GE, the super rich that are sitting pretty at the unions expense.  

Deregulation was the start of "UNION BUSTING" and the only people guilty of union mismanagement are the leaders with their sleeping buddies on "K STREET" and congress.  Look how fast Billy Tauzin R-LA. rose to direct "PHARMA". look at the ads on tv to see the money these thieves can make with the drug companies and insurance companies.

Then again we have the Democratic party trying to please the so-called commander-in-chief by back dooring Comprehension Immigration.  I for one, are very passionate about not giving everything I've ever worked for to a bunch of law breaking people saying we need jobs that Americans won't take and break our laws. Well I say, pay a living wage and UNION benefits and see how fast those jobs will be filled. Bill Gates would find that once the sign hung over his door saying "Until you employ the laidoff software engineers, the sign will say "NO" to HI-B visas" need apply.  

This country was built from collective bargining and it is high time to tell industry to reinvent manufactoring here in America.  Stop giving money to companies that outsource our jobs. That would take care of Steve, Bill, Joe, Mary, Katy and everyone here at home without a job or health care.  

One thing missing Tuesday night was the resolve that we American can stand on our own two feet and defend this great nation and once again have a society that is proud of how America was formed. We don't need to have someone wrapped in the flag and with the military standing their to protect him. We can and will defend this nation until our deaths and we don't need a "FEAR MONGERING LEADER" to lead us.

We don't need LIARS & THIEVES running this country, what we do need is people who care about America to get involved. Are you going to say it didn't affect me, until it started to effect you.
Hillary should have to tell the people why she thinks
she would be a better President than any of her colleadues.She always slips out of direct questions by stating that when bill was president__________line.
Just what does she plan on doing when this country goes under while she is in charge.Who is she going to blame?
There were no questions about McCain's massive abuse of women.  Just weeks ago he nominated his wife as Miss Anal Intercourse at the Buffalo Chips convention.  Sodomy is absolutely amoral.  It should be the question asked of this hypocrite instantly.  



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