Brent [[What's up w/the coward comments?  Do you know how many Americans DON'T enter the military? ]]

You don't get it, do you? Most people aren't in the military, but most people don't try to prove they're macho men like Romney and the other chicken hawks do by clamouring for other people's children to be tossed into the Iraq meat grinder. Most people don't attack others  as cowards or un-American for opposing what is widely and reasonably viewed as a fiasco that is contributing to terrorism rather than fighting it and that is  gradually destroying the US military's ability to carry out its real purpose: defending America, as in going after the REAL Al Qaeda threat that Bush has allowed to fester in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Romney had the nerve to claim that his pampered sons driving around in a van to promote their father's political career is equivalent to the sacrifice made by troops fighting in the 130 F heat in Iraq with a good chance of coming home either dead, or with important pieces of their bodies and/or minds missing. Romney is a disgusting excuse for a human being. The avoidance of military service by his sons onlly goes to show that chicken hawks breed more chicken hawks.

Paul - That I am not sure about.  I'm sure there is a website out there with that information.  As far as McCain is concerned, I never really had a problem with him until he became all stubborn about Iraq.  I am hoping if the reports come back in September saying that the surge is not working that he backs off his gung ho stance, and starts to advocate responsible withdrawal from the conflict.  That would do a lot to restore his credibility in my eyes.  

from reading the blogs it appears that only Democrats have ever served our country and that ALL Republicans get deferments, but not Democrats.  I also see that all republicans are cowards and the only people that can be called Americans are Democrats.  Sinced I served in the military and am a
Republican, I must be one of the 35,000 illegal imigrants -- but I was born and raised in USA.  
In reality the military is equally staffed by Democrats and Republican alike.  I served in Nam with young men who had been on Mormon missions then either enlisted or were drafted.  And yes, they had a 2 year deferment while on missions to the Ghettos of LA or WAshington DC or New York and other "soft spots", but they served their country afterwards.  
The deferments did not exclude you forever but kept your number and name in the draft for a later date.  And if you lost your deferment you often were drafted.  
Yes, you forgot to mention Eisenhower was a republican. but i guess being the General of the European campaign was not serving.  "The big War" was 65 years ago. Everyone that was called  regardless of political affliation served.

It's just ironic that Romney is so pro-war and neither he nor his five sons served in the military during war time. I think that's what people are getting at. That's all.

Ah the Susan that just wrote in is NOT Susan from Miami. Shes got mental problems and therefore will soon be hounded by recuiters. Susan, they are taking woman now but nobody really talks much about it. If you are a proud American and believe in this war, go for it.Ah..Hillary Dickory Dyke didnt serve because she wasn't allowed back then.

Dick Cheney is the worst of the worst. Did he demonstrate against the Vietnam War or did he just run and hide? What about George Bush and Rumsfeld? What was their position back then? And their neocon friends, who have not served this country at any time, where do they have the gall to point fingers at citizens raising serious issues about this war. The on air commentators on Fox News & right wing talk shows - what the hell do they know about the Middle East? They never put a uniform on in their life. And from listening to them, they apparently know nothing about history. My point is yes, we’re free to do what we wish as far as military service. Just please - don’t, if you don’t serve, accuse the Democrats of being un-American or unpatriotic when they're trying to get legitimate answers. And most importantly, don’t vote against equipment when our soldiers are fighting a war. If they had bothered to fight a war, they would know that.
BTW, I'm not exactly anti-war. I'm just anti-wrong wars. I have a very young family member about to be sent to Iraq; I had family members and friends who served in Vietnam before the sh^t hit the fan (66/67); I also had family members in Beirut during the barracks bombing.

Nice thoughts Robert. It's just so hard to get your point across to the vast majority of people in this country.

  Look you republican cowards, are you for the war against terrorism or not. Remember the republicans were the ones that started the Iraq war. It was the republicans that enabled and are extending the Iraq war, but you cowards are the first ones to question people's patriotism. I had a ditto head call me unpatriotic because I was against the Iraq war. Funny, I served in the marines and all this chicken hawk could say is "I wished I would have served" This is a direct quote from a ditto head chicken hawk. I do not care about anyones children or who fought in what wars. I want to talk about how the republicans framed the Iraq War as us against ourselves. Republicans ATTACKED anyone that protested the Iraq War. Republicans stifled any talk about the Iraq War that was negative unless they authorized it. Republican congress gave the republican president a blank check to do as he wants on this war. Any protest from the other side was called unpatriotic or enabling terrorists. You god damn republicans act like you are this great power that will destroy terrorism. But you have other people fight your war on terrorism. That is why I call you republicans hypocrits and cowards. Actually guutless yellow bellied pigs come to mind when I think of republicans. They have no problem fighting as long as someone else does the dirty work. I republican, will go get drunk, watch the TV and curse liberals for all that is bad in the world. I will never fight for my country, but I can call those that did fight for my country as unpatriotic because they do not agree with me.

from reading the blogs it appears that only Democrats have ever served our country and that ALL Republicans get deferments, but not Democrats.  I also see that all republicans are cowards and the only people that can be called Americans are Democrats.  Sinced I served in the military and am a
Republican, I must be one of the 35,000 illegal imigrants -- but I was born and raised in USA.  
In reality the military is equally staffed by Democrats and Republican alike.  I served in Nam with young men who had been on Mormon missions then either enlisted or were drafted.  And yes, they had a 2 year deferment while on missions to the Ghettos of LA or WAshington DC or New York and other "soft spots", but they served their country afterwards.  
The deferments did not exclude you forever but kept your number and name in the draft for a later date.  And if you lost your deferment you often were drafted.  
Yes, you forgot to mention Eisenhower was a republican. but i guess being the General of the European campaign was not serving.  "The big War" was 65 years ago. Everyone that was called  regardless of political affliation served.

Hey Ricky I called Brent a boy because he was whiney and BRIANt or whoever I never said people that dont serve are unamerican. You best go read what I wrote again. I am against this war from beginning to end and get pissed off at politicians and sissy republicans pushing this war on everyone else and telling our innocent 18 yr old to go and die for nothing. Yea thats right NOTHING. A cooked up war by Bush and the neocons and crippled and dead soldiers for nothing. All US money going down an Iraqi black hole-except a few billion going to Bush and Cheney and friends. NOTHING!I never said unamerican to anybody.

Those flip flopping chickenhawks...most people in this nation have never served and that's fine...whats not fine is to be a fire breathing war mongering whore and not be willing to sacrifice your blood...none of those dems are walking around acting like rambo like the reprehensible crowd is right now...

The re-enlistment for our military (signing up for more, for those of you who never have) is higher now, than it was during peace time.If you never have then you probably might not understand what it is like to be a soldier with a mission.My close freind is going back for his 3rd tour,this time to train Iraqi soldiers.  it's not matter of chickenhawk or coward. and i know its not a rural thing 'cuz we dumb countree folks hoo aint' gott nothin better to do with our lives.(carry-duh)its about your raising and how you feel about this mess called America. do you not beleive there are Mulims in this country who want their own statehood. or are you too busy trying to figure out how pea-brain Bush , with all his intellectual inadequacies, figured out how to blow up two towers, the pentagon, and made a guy say "let's roll" as he's dropping out of the sky. he did all this to do what? take out sadam cause his daddy did not do it. or maybe it was because of all the oil. get real people.stop drinking your bong water and wake up!

This is a stupid argument.  There are candidates with service records and family members in service who are gung ho on this disastrous war, and there are candidates with no service records and no relatives in service who want to end the war as quickly as we can.  So there is no validity to the idea that the candidates are chicken hawks or that they would send others off to war without understanding the sacrifice it means.  Argue, if you will, about their positions on the war and not about their military connections.

What I find confusing [it was the AP that first covered the rapidfire question asked of Romney regarding his sons],is the odd perpensity of the liberal-left to crank out the ''chickenhawk''propaganda,or piling on the story if the MSM,while they continue to spread lies regarding the very ''troops''they claim to ''support''. Reach for any number of examples.

The FINALLY reported-upon-by-MSNBC report[see:MSNBC homepage] of the totally fabricated series by the liberal NEW REPUBLIC of ''Iraq Atrocities''committed by ''US soldiers''.[at this post,TNR editor is refusing to take phone calls].

The KOS Konvention throwing out a uniformed soldier who was screamed at by antiwar panelists as he was hustled out the door who merely wished to offer his opinion on why the Surge in Iraq is working. [and no.The UCMJ does not prevent uniformed soldiers from making political comments or opinions that do not otherwise ''discredit''the uniform or involve classified information. No violation of Art.134 was ever evident]. Of violations of ''free speech''however,there were plenty. Committed,by the KOSSACKS.

KOS again,this time calling the Marine veteran Jim Webb[D-VA,Fmr.Navy Sec.],a ''coward'' for not towing the party line.

NEWSWEEK,in an article by Mike Issikoff which had military jailers at the Quantanamo lockup ''flushing Korans down toilets''in a story that was fabricated and which touched off widepread rioting in the Muslim  world.

The New York Times,in a 2005 ''soldiers letter'' which was altered to create the impression that the soldier was criticizing the Bush administration by the Times insertion of wordage done to create and sustain an antiwar effect among ordinary US soldiers in Iraq. The soldiers angered father,released the full text of the letter that showed no such criticism,and actually held the view that we are ''doing good in Iraq'',demanding a retraction from the Times.

The oft-reported ''Haditha Massacre'',used as a bludegon by Rep.Jack Murtha who referred to Marines as ''murderers''. Yet to date,no evidence of a ''massacre'' has ever been shown to have occurred and in July, JAG prosecutors dropped charges against two of the Marines allegedly involved.

John Kerrys foray into the state of American education,when he observed that you should get a good education.''And if you don't,you'll get stuck in Iraq''.Soldiers in Iraq returned Kerrys harebrained compliment by hoisting a huge banner that read:''HALP US JON CERRY,WE R STUK HAR IN IRAK''.

KOS [again],who ran this little masthead gem last month:''US Soldiers In Danger Of Becoming Mass Murderers And Serial Killers''.

ROTCS getting kicked out of Frisco[along with the Navy itself]. Anti-military protests at Harvard, and U Santa Cruz,soldiers being ''wasted''for the ''Zionists'',soldiers who are compared to Nazis, to the Soviets, murderers, rapists,imperialists. Soldiers who are told that they are ''failing''when ever single last measure shows that they are not.

Thus ''chickenhawk''as it is clearly utilized, may be as erroneous a term as those who claim the use of the term ''support'' of our ''soldiers''. For a stung ''chickenhawk'',of military age may yet still join,while those who ''support''our troops,have an equal responsibility to ensure that justice is done to them. It is not enough to merely insist that they be recalled. These must confront the slanders leveled against them. As it now stands, this is the most policed,scrutinized,and legally oversought military in American history. Critics would do well to keep this in mind.

I served at a time when most people wouldn't even speak to you if you wore a uniform, and I think EVERYBODY should serve their country in some capacity, if not military, then through some meaningful civic program. But this BS that sleazeball Romney is pulling about a road trip with a Winnabgo is a shameful justification of service while lives are being wasted every day. It would be better if he just kept his mouth shut than to spout that crap.

Dave quite crying and whining like a baby.Oh those poor republicans!

Hey F - I think what you meant to say is that DEMOCRATS put this war on people too - not just republicans.  Don't you remember who all voted for the war boy? R's and D's alike!  But here you state:

"get pissed off at politicians and sissy republicans pushing this war on everyone else"

so are you calling democrats "politicians" here?  that is hilarious! And the republicans are sissys?  get your head out of your A$$!  I think THAT'S the black hole you're referring to boy!  WAAAAAAAA!!!

Susan - you are a little off base, if you support this war, regardless of your party, then you should be the ones paying for it, either with your cash or serving in the military.  Those who do not support the war should not.  I would really like to earmark my taxes - most of it would go to the VA and increase in pay for soildiers (not commanders or anyone in the Pentagon), not one dime would go to Halliburton, the rest would go to public education,national/state parks.
Dave - as far as cheney goes, well, it was a little different back then (and I do remember it far too well as I have several family members and friends who did not come back from Viet-Hell Hole-Nam), there was a draft in place.  Now there is not.  May as well be though cause there are far too many recruiters in the high schools trying to sign up folks on their 18th birthday.  I don't like cheney, however, to be honest, I don't blame anyone for not going to Viet Nam (or Iraq either). It is a little unfair to see Johnny small-town, working family son march to war because he was drafted and big daddy warbucks son staying home because he had the money and power to get out of it.  

N. Merril [[from reading the blogs it appears that only Democrats have ever served our country and that ALL Republicans get deferments, but not Democrats.]]

Then you should improve your reading skills. Nobody said all Repubs are chicken hawks. But the ones who equate riding around to political rallies in an air-conditioned bus in Iowa like Romney did or defending bars in Alabama from the Viet Cong like the Shrub certainly fit the chicken hawk category.

I believe that everyone when they turn 18 should have to serve the country for at least 2 years.  If they are physically unable to join the military, then something in civil service, peace corp or something along those lines. If they are enrolled in college then the time would be after they graduate.  This would put the burden on everyone, the rich, poor and middle class.  Maybe then when they become politicians they will realize what it means to go to war and would be more hesitant. The present administration doesn't give a sh*t about the military. And as it is now, the majority of the service members come from the poor and middle class and those who use it to get college after completion of their time.  The rich do not serve, but they sure can send them to die in a winless war.

   M Merril, do you read and just cherry pick the eveidence to justify your arguement. Republicans lead the charge to start the Iraq war. I call the republicans out because they were the ones questioning other people's patriotism. If you were for the war you were a patriot. If you were against the war you were a terrorist. These are facts from 2002. I even showed where a ditto head question my patriotism and call me a terrorist because I did not agree with the war in Iraq. This Merril is what I am calling out. The hypocrisy of the republican party. Remember they are the party responsible for the Iraq war.  They started it , ran it and destroyed our reputation in the process. The republicans with 4 years of running the war their way and not working, seek out and try to demomize anyone that protests this war. Basically trying to find someone else to blame for their screw ups. They are trying to tie it to the democrat party, but so far it is not working. Again demonizing anyone or questioning people's patriotism if they are against thwe war. So yes republicans are cowards since they can only talk the talk, but will not walk the walk. Remember that Merrill. Which party started this war, enabled this war and is screwing up this war. Which party Merril. The same party that questions other people's patriotism.  But yet they can tell me whether I am a patriot or not.  Merrill can you seen the hypocrisy? People have questioned my loyalty and patriotism , because I am against this war. Why can Republicans do this, but when I call a republican out, you all hide behind your party and start crying like babies.

Susan--Hillary Dickory Dyke?  Susan, admit it, does she make your heart beat just a little faster?

Bobf:  give 'em hell!
Maureen and Amy B, thanks for clarifying the point that some are trying to make here.  It's really hypocritical to continue pushing this war if don't feel like it is important enough for you and/or yours to fight.  

I have been reading all of your comments, and can't help but address a few things.

First of all, Maureen, I agree with essentially everything you have said. Thank you for bringing some truly patriotic words to this board.

Secondly, I want to address the finger-pointing regarding military service. Early on, the discussion was that the Republican candidates who are endorsing this endless war in Iraq do not have children in the military. This is a valid statement. And though I am a Hillary supporter, this is a valid statement when directed at her, too. I was disheartened, then, to see obviously Republican supporters jumping down the throat of people who wrote such things, pointing out that the people writing in this discussion probably have never served either, and by their reasons they are cowards.
This is not valid. Not serving in the military is not equivalent to being a coward. Those who insinuate such things, or try to twist the words of the clearly liberal writers, are in the wrong by far. The point of the liberal point of view here is to expose the hypocrisy of public office holders' sending parents' children into wars with the stroke of a pen when they themselves do not have to worry about the fate of their own children in such an action. As far as I know, nobody on this wall holds a place in public office and therefore nobody has directly endorsed the War in Iraq (or whatever you'd like to call it). Consequently, it is totally irrelevant to point out the lack of military participants writing here. Stick to the issue at hand, please.

Looking forward to reading responses.

How many of you have given two years of your life at your own expense to give service like all of the Romney boys have. Some of the 'cowards' comments make me vommit a little in my mouth :-X

Hannah. This is hypocrisy on your portion. Nice to have your cake and eat it too but this will not wash. The Constitution clearly demands that the nation shall be governed by civilian control. Not by the military.[unless you like having a ''Seven Days In May''scenario,which most if not all,do not]. In this light,it is just as valid to observe that there should never be such a test placed on Republicans who otherwise did not serve in the nations military. Obama and Hillary never served either yet are totally comfortable in crafting military tactics and strategy as regards Pakistan even before being nominated,let alone elected. Yet I will not judge them on such a standard, nor others on these boards despite being a veteran myself.

For all you repub chickenhawks I will again define the term chickenhawk--one who starts a war without good reason and calls any and everyone who disagrees with said war a traitor all the while either never having served in the military are findig any and every excuse not to serve thereby taking no personal risk while encouraging others to die in said war and now you repub chickenhawks do as you always do and twist and turn the truth into  lies and think everyone is too stupid to understand your carni show slick tricks.  Nice try at changing the subject but America is too smart for you clowns.

I am so sick of the "Im was in the army and so Im the only one that loves America and the only one who can be president" CRAP.  

Romney is a freekin stud.  He is the only one qualified to be president.  Guys, don't be brainwashed by all the crap in the media.  

A Hillary girl would fit in because she's a LESBO.   America will soon find out all the details.

Well said Mr. Catalano, thank you.

For all of you concerned about where Mitt's sons are, I ask you this.  Where was ole slick during Veitnam?  Just smoking not inhaling? And where is Chelsea now?

The dumbest thing I have ever heard is "I don't see you sending your kids off to war". Did Clinton pack up his daughter and send her to Bosnia?? Nope didn't think so. Before a moronic liberal decides to make a comment about something a republican is or isn't doing maybe they should look at their own party first. As for the Romney Girls I have a song for you. " I'm A Barbie Girl". All of you look like the poster child for plastic surgery including Mitt. And what kind of name is Mitt? His parents should be smacked for that!!

I guess all you warhawks are pleased that Cheney is pushing and Bush is thinking about attacking Iran. Supposedly because that country needs a change in leadership, did the Iran leader try to kill W."s daddy also? These countries do not want us interfering or telling them what kind of government they should have.  My father and my husband both served this country, one during world war II and the other during the Korean war.  All three of my sons had to register for the draft, if my grandson becomes of age during this disaster, I will do everything in my power to discourage him from serving.  We need to get out of Iraq before we lose and maim more of our troops.

Rick [[For all of you concerned about where Mitt's sons are, I ask you this.  Where was ole slick during Veitnam?]]

"Old slick" (Clinton) was opposed to the war in Vietnam and he never equated attending protest rallies to serving in the military as Old Slime Romney equated his litter of spoiled brats tooling around Iowa in an air-conditioned bus shilling for their daddy's political career. Just a light difference, there.

Romney is not likely to get the Repub nomination. His claim about his sons' "service" to the country is going to make it even less likely. Even among Republicans, only a small fringe group of morally defective people would not find his statement totally repulsive.

Kay, Chelsea wasnt old enough to go into the military then and females were not allowed to fight at that point. By the way, Mitt Romney is a republican, in case you didn't know. And Rick in Germany, Chelsea is a college graduate and has a full time job, something us liberals do with OUR kids instead of sending them off to get killed or maimed for NO REASON! Bill Clinton got a deferrment like Cheney and many of others at that time. My older brother decided to go to vietnam and never came home. Lets see, he'd be 62 next month.

J.D.Smith, since you are claiming Hillary is a lesbo, why don't you give us all those details now?

mikeeg:When did Romney ever call anyone a ''traitor''?Elaborate.

Lee Holmes [[Obama and Hillary never served either yet are totally comfortable in crafting military tactics and strategy as regards Pakistan even before being nominated,let alone elected.]]

You persist in missing or evading the point. Neither Clinton nor Obama ever equated their politicking for higher office with military service. Romney alone has that dubious distinction. Not even Bush has had the gall to make such a comparison. Bush did say the Iraq war is causing the American people to suffer because they have to watch the (highly sanitized) images of violence in Iraq on their TVs. Bush deserved a booby prize for that statement, which shows his complete disregard for the real suffering this pointless war continues to create every day it drags on.

Houston: The  blazes you say. The unending hypocrisy of the ''chickenhawk''callers is exactly the point,and welcomes open confrontation. Not your purile ''evasion''.You Einsteins are trying to have it ALL ways.[i.e ''we can call you chickenhawks because you did not serve and you think this is a just war and we don't. We can attack currently serving or veteran soldiers because we ''support''these. We can attack these chickenhawks even if we ourselves did not serve because we don't like conflicts unless it is one of our guys getting us into another war[And We Are Tired Of Those Who Are Veterans Themselves Criticizing Us On Our Own Criticisms Of These Chickenhawks,Even Though We May Have Never Spent One Day In The Uniform Of This Nation. Our Chickenhawks Have More Noble Purposes Than Your Chickenhawks Because We Are Voting For Them].

This is a display of the idiotic. What I wish to know,rather,is why do you not address REAL slanders of these soldiers as reported upon in the MSM? Is it because these eminate from liberal or leftwinged quarters? Are you this partisan? We will observe here that only hours ago, military prosecutors dropped all charges against the last of the so-called ''Haditha Marines''.Repeated demands for Jack Murtha[D-Pa] to make a statement have gone unanswered. They have been tarred by Murthas brush as being ''murderers''.Let Murtha now explain himself, NEW REPUBLIC, KOS and all the rest. You continue to ignore the fact that this infighting over ''chickenhawks''is a second-rate exercise in lucid debate. Nor do Romneys ''Winnabago''comments rise to any level even remotely approached by my aforementioned sources who have engaged in the true slander of our fighting and serving men and women. Sources that have been avidly sought out by those running for this nations presidency.  

Lee Holmes [[They have been tarred by Murthas brush as being ''murderers''.Let Murtha now explain himself, NEW REPUBLIC, KOS and all the rest.]]

You're still evading the subject by changing it. Romney has proven he doesn't take war seriously and he doesn't deserve to be president.

As for your change of subject, the soldiers were given what I assume was a fair trial and found innocent. But there are others who haven't come to trial yet and _someone_ in the US military was apparently responsible for the Haditha murders. The main suspect still remains: a guy named Green whose background suggests he should never have been in the military. This was the kind of incident that has turned Iraqis against US soldiers and that has helped recruit insurgents. But the murder of the people we supposedly are there to help and the consequences in increased hostility toward US troops , most of whom do behave honorably, doesn't seem to bother you at all. Care and feeding of chicken hawks seems to be your main concern.

Uhhh Duh Becky I am quite aware Mitt is a republican....Chelsea may not have ben old enough to go to war at that time and women couldn't go into battle but, I stand behind my statement. Every dem I know says the same thing about George or any other republican about sending their kid to war. It's a stupid comment I don't care which party you vote for. And as for Mitt he may be in my party but, I sure as hell wouldn't vote for him!!!

Houston:To date,not a single soldier has been found guilty of any ''massacre''. Indeed,four of these Marines were not even advanced to a courts-martial level. It is over. Murtha slandered these soldiers and has the duty to explain himself. Pass to Romney, and he merely joins others whose comments have rendered them,[by using the Romneyian example]as ''unfit''themselves. Obama dithering over confronting al Qaeda. Hillary flipflopping on the nukes question [this actually was created as its own board by this Blog]. Edwards leaning on the UN when it has shown unrelentingly that it cannot keep the peace,[and naively believing that truckling to Tehran and Damascus will change anything]. Tancredo wanting to bomb Mecca. I can call any shot I please on both the ''chickenhawk''as well as the ''peacenik''[who I most assuredly do NOT see volunteering to go to Islamabad or Beirut or Khartoum in order to further this ''peace''],as I have rendered honourable service to this nation in its uniform.[and every single last indication that we have in Iraq shows clearly that it is the American military that the Iraqi people are most favourably responding to. Not Washington and its non-stop political posturing].

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):