We can only hope that Petreus is enough of an independent thinker to report the Iraq situation truthfully, unlike previous Generals in Petreus' position who found it necessary to parrot the Bush nonsense for fear of having their careers derailed. Of course, some of this pressure to conform came from the heavy handed, know-it-all Secretary of Defense, Don Rumsfeld.  Hopefully, Petreus is putting his "career path" on the back burner and just dealing realistically with what's in front of him.  If he can do that, we may finally have a policy that points us toward military disengagement from the Iraq fiasco.  Also, Gates appears to be more level headed and less ego-centric than the fool-hardy Rumsfeld.

One can only hope.

Ok, is this only news to me...Cheney predicting in 1994 what would happen in Iraq if we removed Saddam?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I

Where have you gone Dick Cheney, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

The New York Times.  Does anyone read that rag anymore?

No matter how you cut it iraq is and was a mess made much worse by bush/cheney/rove/chickenhawk policies.  The current iraq govt is just a US puppet as neocons are advocating getting rid of the current iraq pres. and replacing him just as the days of disposing of viet presidents who could not do what the military industrial complex wanted.

The Miami Herald recently interviewed Retired General Volney Warner who made a career out of thinking about how miltary strategy should advance America's global interests. He was considered highly regarded expert on counterinsurgency. He basically stated that their are situations in the world the U.S. cannot resolve militarily or otherwise.Vietnam was one of them.Iraq is another. He went on to reiterate that they began as flawed aims and assumptions, and in both cases they produced military strategies that were doomed to fail. In Vietnam it was the "domino theory" that if we did not stop the communist north it would spread to Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia etc;theirfore;we helped install a corrupt and unpopular president and propted him up with American's blood. Cheney and neo-cons were convinced that if they invaded Iraq and removed Hussein and low and behold a democracy will flourish and spread to Syria, Egypt, Saudia Arabia and beyond.Ironcially, the only country in the immediate area that the president is elected by the people is Iran. As the saying goes history repeats itself, we are lied to, industrial military corporations flourish and we the people die.

Good one, Amy. Now we have confirmation that Dick Cheney suffers from Alzheimer's. Wonderful. Bush is a retard, Condi's a major-league asskisser, and Dick's got Alzheimer's.

Regardless of the general's September report, Bush will extend the surge if the report is positive, thereby giving the reason that we can't pull back now since we've made such progress, or he'll extend the surge if it's negative, because the Iraqi's still need additional time to get their stuff together and to pull out now would cause chaos. Am I the only one to see this coming? I don't give a damn when this report comes out or what it says - we're screwed either way and there will be NO CHANGES until Bush's ass is out of that office. Period.

"The Military Industrial Complex Blues" (Steve Miller Band 1970's). S.O.S.

After over 6 years of deception, distortion, disinformation, and deceit from the Bush Administration, there is not a chance in hell of getting a meaningful report on the Iraq debacle from Gen. Patraeus in September.  We will instead receive some murky claptrap, about some "successes" and some "not so successes", and the "surge" needing more time.  This however should mark the end of the line for the continuing to escalate this mess with more troops, and throwing more money at a doomed military blunder.  The money should be appropriated to remove and re-deploy Americans, and not one single solitary cent should be given to Bush to stay the course.  If this is not done, there will many, many members of Congress removed from their jobs in the next election cycle.

Bren Michaels--Hang on Bren, the "Rupert Murdochized" WSJ is coming soon! Combine that with FOX News and there will be no more need to read or watch any media outlet that does any more than mouth or print official press releases verbatim.
Very comforting I'm sure.

You can rest assured that Petreus was given orders by Cheney and Bush to keep the surge going and report progress before he was ever given the job.

General Petraeus should owe his loyalty to the American people - not just the White House and Congress.  As far as Secretary Gates being able to persuade Bush to compromise - to quote Buddy Holly, "that'll be the day"!

When will the media get a clue Bush has no intention of deploying troops from Iraq....maybe when he...doesn't deploy troops from Iraq yet sends more. The man isn't normal, reason does not govern him....congress must override his vetos.

Lord, I'm so tired of payin' all of these dues
From Sunday to Sunday all I hear is bad news
Tired of the war and those industrial fools
I've got to make it better cause I've got nothin' lose
Won't somebody help me cause I've gotten in my shoes
Those industrial military complex blues
(Sorry, got the title wrong, its: "Industrial Miliary Complex Hex"
Coulda been written last week huh, wow, I thought we learned something.

My guess is that Petraeus' report will be mixed and softened to allow Bush to claim what he wants to and the opposition to claim what they want to. I don't blame the General for this. Our military tradition cedes Strategic  Policy to the Civilian authority leaving Tactical execution to the professional Military. Can you imagine the spectacle of a sitting military commander testifying before congress about a flawed strategic policy, the ineptitude's of the Administration that formulated it, and the complicity of a Congress that enabled it? Not gonna happen. But I wish it would. All of official Washington including the press need a public spanking issued by Gen. Petraeus, the surrogate father of the fine young people who sacrifice  their bodies and their lives obeying orders under the assumption that responsible, wise elders of their nation are making correct well, thought out policy free of politics and for the good of the Country. Oh, would that it were so.
September 15 - Washington DC

43 American soldiers killed during July '06, 80 in July '07.  Local authorities pulling their generators off the national grid so they have more electricity for their own people.  Oil production still below prewar levels.  Violence against civilians continuing to rise.  In the time it took to secure all of Europe, N Africa, and the Pacific Rim against agression in WWII the road from the Green Zone to the Bagdhad airport isn't even safe.  What's to debate?

Anyone that believes that Petreuss report will be anything but upbeat doesn’t see what is going on with king george and his thugs.

The report that Petreuss will give next month was probably written and approved before he was given the job by king george.

Every general that has disagreed with the king has been replaced and Petreuss still has his job even after the report that states he was in charge of the thousands of missing weapons that were paid for by the American tax payers.

King george will continue to lie and more Americans will die.

Hail to king george and his group of thugs.

Thats right RC King george will lie more, and kill more. Lie and Kill thats all he has done. He is good for nothing.

Rich man's war. Poor man's fight. The profiteers will make sure the war continues.

Brian said, "Am I the only one to see this coming? I don't give a damn when this report comes out or what it says - we're screwed either way and there will be NO CHANGES until Bush's ass is out of that office. "

No, Brian, you're not the only one.  I think your assessment is right on the money.  I'm hoping we have clearer thinkers in top positions.  But, based on past history with this Administration, the Bush nonsense will continue.

Bush will keep the war going regardless what Patraeus says or ddoes not say---The general does not want to be added to the dung pile of former generals that Herr Bush has accumulated.This administration has murdered america.

As long as there are people who believe it is just to kill other people for purely political aims we will have fiascos like Vietnam and Iraq.  Both were justified with a lie (Gulf of Tonkin incident and WMD's), both were a result of a particular political philosphy 9the Domino theory and neoconism) and both were begun long before hostilities broke out by short-sightedness of politicians (the Dulles Brothers and the Cheney-Rumsfeld gang).  Fifty + thousand young American men and women died in Vietnam and another nearly 4,000 have died in Iraq.  I'm afraid the real butchers weren't communists and Islamic radicals alone; our leaders are also as guilty as Hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBflQLa75C8

Whatever happened to the War Czar? Why don't we ever hear from him? What was his name and is he still alive?

The report is irrelevant. It was just a delaying tactic. There is no intention on Bush's part to take any input other the marching orders he thinks he got from God. At this point he may be doing the JC mantra of "why have you forsaken me."  He expects that if he keeps the faith that God has a plan (inscrutable maybe).

John B/Ollie- Both are right on! The Democrats better grow a bigger backbone when they return in September and stop this Madness of King George.

MBoley and RC, You got that right!

Heres a verbatim quote for you Gary:

Nashua [NH] Telegraph.Aug.14,2007: '' We need to get enough troops in there so that they are not air-raiding villages and killing civilians''.Remarks,Barak Obama.

''Obama is not endorsing the current Bush policy which consists solely of airraids and bombing civilians''Remarks,Reid Charin,Obama campaign manager.

 Here,Obama is referring to Afghanistan,and here,Obama is referring to American soldiers as murderers,rather than al Qaeda and the Taliban,which HAS been bombing villages and killing civilians with deliberate intent. Even supporters of Obama after the NH speech are worried that the wheels have come off the wagon. Quoted by both the AP and REUTERS recently,Obamas new Iraq ''strategy''is to insert CHINESE ground troops into this country [this will seque into FRs next post on this blog about the ''growing influence of China'' and its effects on the presidential campaigns]. Herein lay true ''madness'',for once the Chinese were invited in,they,using totally brutal methods to put down the insurgency,as these could care less for ''Geneva Conventions'',would be loathe to leave this oil-rich nation. Obama is out of his hopeful mind by not only suggesting such slanders leveled at our troops[again,from the party that claims to ''support''[Trademark],these],but in opening the door for a truely totalitarian state with a massive army to step in after what they pulled in Tibet.[deliberately air-raiding villages and killing civilians].  

    The al Maliki governent called a "crisis in government" council yesterday at the urging of our Ambassador, Ryan Crocker. Ayep, its a crisis all right, sunnis leaving minister positions, Shiite al Sadr ministers leaving, al Maliki saying he won't let any of them back in and he won't meet their demands.
    As a side note, when the Iraqis won the soccer mtch, know who called the banning of demonstrations with guns fired in the air? That would be, Grand Ayotollah al Shistani.The mna behind the power.

ten more dead today.God, I hope none of them are either of my two nephews. May God have mercy on bush and co. souls because I am out of patience. How can we send more boys and girls over to that killing field?Just declare victory and get out. some of the iraqi dead were innocent as much as we would like to believe other wise. when you kill the dad of five children you have created five terrorists. just do the math! quit defending the indefensible and if you must be republican atleast stop defending bush and get behind a new horse.

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana -->

Bren Michaels--Hang on Bren, the "Rupert Murdochized" WSJ is coming soon! Combine that with FOX News and there will be no more need to read or watch any media outlet that does any more than mouth or print official press releases verbatim.
Very comforting I'm sure.

<---

Thanks for all the "information" Gary.

But, can anyone answer the question:

The New York Times.  Does anyone read that rag anymore?

Yes Bren, many many peopleread the NY Times including myself and my family. You are way out of touch if you don't know this. DOH!

Bren Michaels--You require answers to rhetorical questions?  Ok.

Circulation: 1,120,420 Daily 1,627,062 Sunday

IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY! It is time to get them out of office and our soldiers out of the death trap in IRAQ.

175 dead.  What type of spin can the white house put on this deadly event???????????  Tell me again, how well the surge is going
And why have we stopped seeing about the war lately.

Lee Holmes:

Dead is dead rather it is intended or not. I am sure that the distintion is lost on the families of "collateral damage".  
We have been through the "in order to save the village we had to destroy it" madness before. It just makes more enemies.
Had we not pulled our resources from Afghanistan for the stupidity in Iraq we may have been able to better by the Afghan's. Talk around it all you want but a failure is a failure is a failure is a failure.

"An AP fact check shows that Western forces have been killing civilians at a faster rate than the insurgents [in Afghanistan]... As of Aug. 1, the AP count shows that while militants killed 231 civilians in attacks in 2007, Western forces killed 286. Another 20 were killed in crossfire that can't be attributed to one party."

 Gary: Your stance is as foolish as it is reckless. You demand an antiseptic war devoid of these casualties. You name me the last American war where such a condition ever existed. You forget that abandoning an air war in favour of purely ground operations will get more dead. Not fewer. Your hatred of Bush has blinded you to the fact that the last time we were in such a conflict prior to Afghanistan,Clintons military killed over 800 civilians in ''collateral damage''military actions in less than 1/50th the time that it took our presence in Afghanistan to get where it is now.[or,one month and one day in Kosovo and Sudan vs.50 months in Afghanistan for over twice as many civilian deaths]. Yet the Clintons are said,by First Read,to be ''giddy''at this time. And Hillary enjoys solid support from those who have declared even Afghanistan to be a ''failure''. Make no mistake. Under a President Obama,a Clinton,or even a Kucinich you will live to see even more of these civilian dead. WHO will you blame,THEN? [if not the Taliban,who uses these people deliberately as shields].

Unfortunately, with all of the gnashing of teeth, ranting and raving by democratic candidates, plus the Pelosi's, Reid's, Murtha's of the world....There will be no quick withdrawal of troops from Iraq and they know it....

For with all of the negative poll figures and as bad as the US's "press" is for today’s military activities, it would pale in comparison to that which would occur if we decide to pull another Vietnam U-Turn, leaving a vacuum like sucking sound in our wake....

The deal making insiders, within the beltway, know that there's far too much more at stake i.e. Oil, Israel, W's Legacy (whatever that is)not to mention a complete implosion of what we now know as the middle east, the implications are ugly and enormous......

They all know we're stuck, and stuck we're going to stay....That notwithstanding I think that the greater lesson that the American public is learning, or at least they should be, is that those in the administration that were charged with prosecuting this war, are far greater, self absorbed, Cretans, than we ever expected ....A case in point is that of the MRAP's (mine resistant vehicles that are virtually impervious to IED's) vehicles that have been known to the military since 2003, but, didn't suit Rumsfeld's "new look" military that was lighter and more mobile....The most disgusting aspect of this  scenario is that Rumsfeld and his god damned, bureaucratic sycophants, wouldn't order the vehicles, even at the pleading of the commanders on the ground They ignored the military's pleadings knowing full well that lives would be saved...Instead, (here's the real cruncher) when they finally place an order in 2004 for some MRAP's and they were delivered to....the Iraqi Army...I guess a higher premium was placed on Iraqi lives than that of our own troops...

Now, just a month or so ago, the pentagon finally ordered 17,000 MRAP's, thank god the troops that are going to be left there, for god knows how long, will have safer passage in the future.....If IED's were the greatest cause of death and carnage, why did it take 4 years for this order to be placed (which still wouldn't have been issued if Rumsfeld were still at the Pentagon)?  I guess it's not bad enough that we go to war under false pretenses, but to have our "supposed leaders" knowingly....yes knowingly,  placed the lives of our troops at greater risk when with the stroke of a pen thousands of lives would have been saved and the tide of this war could have conceivably been changed is beyond belief..... Please read the following MRAP article (chronology) from USA Today....It's disgusting.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-05-23-marines-mrap_n.htm

Afghanistan is a failure because Bush abandoned it. It was and is the only legitimate theater of this war and we have left it to the wolves because of bad decisions and an irrational move into Iraq. Had we stayed in force we could have tried our hand at bringing the Taliban and Al Qaeda to extinction. Instead they regroup and attack and we respond with the sawed off wide spread shotgun pattern of air power instead of the .30 full metal jacket of accurately directed rifle fire killing the animals that wish to live in medieval times. For that we would at least have a chance of being respected by the Afghan's in the crossfire.
Lee, if you haven't noticed, Obama's position and mine are not pacifist or antiwar in nature. But a military mistake is a military mistake. You admit it, you own it and you move on. In this case back to Afghanistan. That should have been Bushes choice to make a stand. But stupid is as stupid does.

TJB, Scottsdale--If we had stayed in Vietnam we would still be fighting people that are willing to fight for a thousand years to clean the stain of foreigners from their land. It is the same in Iraq. Some military undertakings should not be undertaken.

Gary:Nonsense. Afghanistan is not ''abandoned''by anyone. That is Iraq you are talking.[or the condition that you desire to establish]. You forget that even ground operations,such as those in Fallujah,using your ''.30 metal jacket'' STILL killed civilians.This is an inescapable fact in both the unique nature of building and block fighting as well as the proven usage by the Taliban of civilians as human shields.[which will not end simply because an Obama becomes president who will have to order the ''airraiding of villages''thus ''killing civilians''].

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