Iraq: A little less conversation

Posted: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:08 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: White House, Congress, Security

Is the White House worried about Gen. Petraeus saying too much on Capitol Hill? Is that why it wants to limit the amount of face time he has with Congress? The Washington Post: "Senior congressional aides said yesterday that the White House has proposed limiting the much-anticipated appearance on Capitol Hill next month of Gen. David H. Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker to a private congressional briefing, suggesting instead that the Bush administration's progress report on the Iraq war should be delivered to Congress by the secretaries of state and defense…The skirmishing is an indication of the rising anxiety on all sides in the remaining few weeks before the presentation of what is widely considered a make-or-break assessment of Bush's war strategy, and one that will come amid rising calls for a drawdown of U.S. forces from Iraq."

The antiwar group Americans Against Escalation In Iraq will begin running a TV ad campaign targeting GOP lawmakers Thelma Drake (VA), Phil English (PA), Mitch McConnell (KY), and Fred Upton (MI). The ads -- which will air in college towns in the states on MTV, ESPN, and local network stations -- attempt to tie these Republicans to the draft.

One of the ads goes: ”Thelma Drake has supported Bush's war in Iraq for four years”; it quotes War Czar Douglas Lute about a military draft possibly being on the table. And it ends: “Tell Thelma Drake to end this war.”

Americans Against Escalation in Iraq also commissioned a poll from the Democratic firm Greenberg Quinlan Rosner to survey voters in seven states represented by GOP senators up for re-election in 2008. The survey of 1,000 likely voters found that generic Democratic candidates would win in all seven states right now -- New Mexico, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Kentucky, Minnesota, Maine, and Virginia. But it appears it was a poll that lumped together voters in all seven states into one survey.

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Comments

Our president will make the WRONG decision this time and everytime.He doesn't care who gets killed.The war is already lost.

JeanneGA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:19 AM)

We already know that it's gonna be a God 'n Pony show from this morally corrupt administration, but the bigger question is, what the hell is wrong with the citizens of this country?

Rise up already, stop the madness....

APATHY KILLS!

monkey (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:25 AM)

Do not, repeat not, appropriate any special funds for DoD outside of their normal FY authorizations/appropriations for Iraq. If W et al cannot figure costs by now for this nightmare, do not fund them. This time we DEMs have the upper hand.

Chuck, NY (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:58 AM)

With apologies to Country Joe McDonald-

Come on all of you big strong men
Uncle Sam needs your help again
he's got a great idea for a permanent base
way down yonder in the middle east
put down your books and pick up a gun we're
gonna have a whole lotta fun

(CHORUS)
And it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for
don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is probably Iran
And it's five, six, seven, open up the pearly gates
ain't no time to wonder why, whoopee we're all gonna die

Come on generals, let's move fast
your big chance has come at last
Some combat time wouldn’t be half bad
Those analyst jobs are pretty rad
Get the people on board for the final win
then will find a way to do it all again

Come on wall street don't be slow
Permanent occupation will make you grow
Halliburton has lead the way
Good ol Dubai is the place to stay
no rules, no laws, no IRS
and we can pay the local natives less

Come on mothers throughout the land
pack your boys off to Iraq again
Two or three times will make em tough
And your Halliburton stock is gonna go up
and if they make it back alive to home
Blackwater will be on the phone

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:59 AM)

First of all, there is NO FREAKIN' WAY the Dems are going to accept Betrayus lying to them in private; they're going to want to hear him try to defend the Surge and the war in front of the people whose taxes are paying for it and whose kids are dying in it. The Cheny/Bush administration is already talking about writing the actual report, using Betrayus and other people who've actually been on the ground as consultants...so you KNOW the written report will be total and complete bs. That being the case, Congress is going to want to hear the REAL story from the guy Bush chose to paint a reosy picture of things in Iraq.
And, yes, the Republican solution to the dissolving military (pulled to thin by the wars we're in) is going to be the draft, there is absolutely no doubt of that. But only AFTER the election. If a Repub wins the White House (and one will, because Hillary is a gauranteed loser, and the Dems are stupid enough to run her anyway), they will instill a draft, tnd the American public will see the bill of goods tey've been sold by electing yet another damn republican. I wonder if Jenna and Babs will be called up? Or will their Daddy's $ get them out the way their garnddaddy's money got their daddy out? (I always told recruiters who made unsolicited phone calls to my house after my kids graduated from high school, "When Bush's kids go, I'll THINK aobut sending mine!" They soon stopped calling.)

Class Warrior, D.C. (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:01 AM)

"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" is what we deserve to hear from Petraeus and Crocker, but it appears that this administration is afraid of what the truth might be.

We need to email, write, call and fax our Congressional people and tell them we want an open hearing with questions and (hopefully) truthful answers from these two men. No more secrecy and "executive orders" and closed hearings with no oath and no record.

Utahreb, Veyo, UT (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:06 AM)

This whole Iraq thing is such a joke. Why do we have two 4 star generals (the Admiral in charge of CENTCOM & Gen Betrayus the on scene commander) reporting to a three star war czar?

Chuck, NY (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:08 AM)

Does this surprise anyone anymore? This administration will continue to lie, spin, conceal, CENSOR, and make a complete mockery of we the people. Bush is becoming more like Chavez everyday and competing for the title of the biggest meglomaniac of the world along with North Korea's Kim, Pakistan's Musharraf and the ailing/senile Castro.

juan,ft lauderdale,fl (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:10 AM)

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:59 AM)

You're really cookin' today, Gary.

Great post!

Independent, Texas (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:14 AM)

monkey-right on! Americans better wake up and be very vigilant about what's happening to our dwindling rights and focused less on Lindsey Lohan.

juan,ft lauderdale,fl (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:18 AM)

We are beating our heads against the wall. There will "never" be a "political" solution to the Iraqi "cival" war with the present Priminister and Parlement. They have "no" intentions on any agreement.None,never,period.

Adam J. Franks, Santa Barbara,Ca. (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:33 AM)

LOL, ads in college towns and MTV. The ads play and Junior and Missy are in the bathroom and getting something to drink and they are using TIVO so they can skip the ads. Probably won't do anything but make the networks richer.

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:36 AM)

Personally, being a progessive, I think the military draft is a great idea. I think all Americans, regardless of who they are should give two years of service to their country, either in the military or doing community service that has some meaning. It would give them a sense of what it actually means to give back to the country which has provided a mostly safe haven and opportunity for them and their families to have a good life. Yes, I have served in the military, in combat, and although it was a terrible experience in some ways, it was valuable in others. Just like a job.

Some other practical points:
1) How long do you think this war in Iraq would continue if America's soccer Moms had to send Justin and Jessica to be used as cannon fodder after Mom and Dad have spent so much time and money raising them, and how willing do you think those parents would be to blindly support another war if it came down to the chance of them watching their children killed?

2) Fast food and other businesses who hire people at minimum wage would have to pay competitively for their workers because most of who they hire now would either be in the military or doing public service.

3) Community service to the country would also carry education benefits giving a chance for even the most financially disadvantaged people to go to college.

4) Having served their country, most people would have a greater understanding about social responsibility which is almost non-existent today.

I would also believe that deferments for this service be only temporary and those who go to college or on religious missions would still have to serve their country when their education and preaching have finished. Since not all jobs would be military or physically demanding, even those with flat feet or some other conjured disability would be able to serve; even those who have been raised to believe they are better than everyone else because of their financial blessings or religious beliefs.

Robert Catalano, Salem, OR (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:59 AM)

I now read where the whitehouse will write petraus report for him, why am I not suprised, they have already abondoned TRUTH and are trying to tell America what to think, shades of BIG BROTHER AND BRAINWASHING. bush/cheney/rove/rush Preciding over the DEATH OF AMERICA.

mikeeg,abdn,wa (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:09 AM)

Robert Catalano, Salem, OR (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:59 AM)

Agree with you completely and on all points! I would add one point - if we do return to a draft, it should be completely and totally illegal to then use "outside" contractors such as Blackwater.

Won't happen but......

Independent, Texas (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:39 AM)

Shhhh, if Gen. Petraeus tells us in public how well the war is going it will only embolden the enemy.

nuanced (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:41 AM)

And so the filth from the Administration continues to flow...

M. Boley (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:47 AM)

Adam J Franks, well put. The various Iraqi factions are just picking at each other until we leave and they get the chance to try to finish each other off.

John B, Des Moines, IA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:06 PM)

Robert - I usually agree with you, and today is no exception. 2 years public service, military, hospital orderly conservation corps, road building, whatever, for EVERYONE!

Caroline, MI (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:10 PM)

Mr. Catalano, your points are all well-taken; BUT...remember Vietnam? Did Bush really serve, and did he stay the entire time he was supposed to? His daddy's money got him a free pass. Cheney now says military service "was not a priority for me at that time", so he got five deferrments. (I doubt it was the priority of any of the 58,000 who lost their lives there, either, so Bush could prance around and kiss communist butt in Ho Chi Minh City thirty years later.) This country has NEVER been about Liberty and Justice for All. The rich would be able to worm their way out of all this somehow. Can you see Bush's two daughters serving in Iraq or even feeding kids in the Third World, or in a Third World-like ghetto here? Please...!The draft or any sort of national service will be swelled, not by the rich, but by the rest---OUR kids, not Bush's. No matter how just you try to make it, any sort of service will be skewed in the favor of the well-off.
You're right, though, the soccer moms of the middle class would all rise up in fury...or move them and their kids to Canada. Those who could afford to anyway...

Class Warrior, D.C. (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:12 PM)

Gary, love it, brings back memories.

Susan, Miami (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:17 PM)

Hey Gary, right on brother. Gary is the man.

F StLouis (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:18 PM)

Let some democrat talk about sending troops some where with or without the UN and boy howdy what great foreign policy knowledge they have.

give me a break (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:21 PM)

Robert Catalano, my family and I agree with you on the two years of national service. In the spring of 2001 my son said he felt guilty enjoying the good life at college when so many others have given so much to make this country great. The other students thought he was nuts, especially since he had to have heart surgery before he could enlist. He was the only member of the military in his graduating class. During the Civil War that same college had several professors and half the students join the Union Army. The basement of the theatre was converted to an indoor shooting range during WWI and drills were held on the grounds. Some of the students there today are barely aware that we are involved in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Mel, Illinois (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:21 PM)

Hey Robert from oregon, I think I agree with you. But I would say no deferrments...period (except for true medical cases.)

When the children of the "ruling class" also become cannon fodder, much more thought and finesse will be put into foreign policy. As long as there is no "shared pain" these wars will continue to happen.

Chuck said: Why do we have two 4 star generals (the Admiral in charge of CENTCOM & Gen Betrayus the on scene commander) reporting to a three star war czar?

The reason is that the Generals gave honest assessments at the start of the war and they were all canned. Now the only people Bush can get are the butt kissers more concerned about their pensions than anything else. So he is scraping the barrel and the three star is apparently all that he could get to go along with him.

GAB, Austin, TX (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:34 PM)

Conditions in Iraq appear to be god-awful, but things must be going evern worse than they appear to be if Bush is going to muzzle Petraeus. First the news came out that they're not going to let Petraeus write the "Petraeus Report." Now they don't even want him to testify in public.

I expected Petraeus to produce a happy-talk report in September no matter how bad things were in Iraq; he showed himself to be a political general by writing a newspaper opinion column touting the Iraq war right before the 2004 presidential election. But maybe even he has reached his limits.

Houston (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:41 PM)

Robert Catalano, the draft is slavery any way you slice it, even if it is paid. Slavery is when one person is forced to work by another person. At the very least it is indentured servitude. Coercion is not the answer. I don't really care if my neighbor's kid is a screw up. It just means my kid has a better chance to get a decent job. It's competition and that's a good thing. I just don't want to support my neighbors kid. I also don't want him or her to die in any war, especially an unnecessary one. Hillary cannot win because the GOP base will come out against her in full force. All the Democrats should be supporting Ron Paul. He is the only candidate that will end the war AND not bankrupt the country. And besides, how better to piss off the GOP, than to elect the one Republican the neocons despise. END THIS WAR NOW! Ron Paul 2008.

Nick (Clifton Park, NY) (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:08 PM)

Gary Schear, that is terrific post. It made me get out my old Coutry Joe and the Fish album, spin it on the turntable and fire one up.

Dave, AZ (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:32 PM)

President Bush, July 12:

"And you asked, how long does one wait? I will repeat, as the Commander-in-Chief of a great military who has supported this military and will continue to support this military, not only with my — with insisting that we get resources to them, but with — by respecting the command structure, I'm going to wait for David to come back — David Petraeus to come back and give us the report on what he sees. And then we'll use that data, that — his report to work with the rest of the military chain of command, and members of Congress, to make another decision, if need be."

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:49 PM)

Tony Snow, July 13:

"What happens is, is that the report you're going to get is going to be a joint production between the two, so it will reflect their combined judgment."

Roger, Oakland, CA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:50 PM)

<sigh> Where is Joe McDonald when we need him?

Robert Catalano, Salem, OR (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:50 PM)

Stephen Hadley, July 13:

"There is a process for doing an orderly consideration in September about where we are in Iraq. It starts with a report from General Petraeus and Ryan Crocker, but it's, as the President said, it will be a process that will be an inclusive one, and will include Republicans and Democrats in Congress."

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:50 PM)

Tony Snow, July 18:

"It's important for members of Congress to get a fuller sense of how the surge is working, or also where they think it's not working. They're going to get a report — they want a report on September 15th from Ambassador Crocker and General Petraeus; they'll get that. And at that point, people will be able to make further assessments."

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:51 PM)

Tony Snow, July 20:

"You know what, I'm not going to try to prejudge. It is the business of General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker to provide a full report to Congress. It is — those are their — it is their call to make in terms of trying to measure against the metrics that are outlined in the benchmarks, as well as providing other supporting data. I do not — I don't think it's their business to prejudge; what they're supposed to do is to provide a full and factual report."

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:51 PM)

Tony Snow, July 23:

"Ambassador Crocker and General Petraeus will be issuing a report, again pursuant to that legislation, that's due September 15th. I think the first thing to do is to figure out, when you have a brand new operation underway, how's it doing."

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:52 PM)

Tony Snow, July 24:

"The fact is that Ambassador Crocker and General Petraeus will be putting together a plan — not really a plan, but a report — that will assess the success to date of the surge, militarily, economically, diplomatically, politically, and so on. And that's really what you've got to look for."

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:52 PM)

Dick Cheney, July 30:

"I don't want to make those judgments. I think those really turn more on the kind of advice we get from the military. We're all waiting to see what General Petraeus produces by way of his report back, in September."

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:53 PM)

Tony Snow, August 1:

"Now, let us keep in mind that the full burden of this report does not fall on his shoulders. A lot of the key judgments, especially about politics, will fall on Ambassador Crocker. So this is — although I know a lot of people talk about "the Petraeus report," in fact, you have a report that is a joint report by General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker. And so we trust him."

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:54 PM)

Dana Perino, Yesterday:

Q Dana, there's a report out today that the September Iraq report will be written by the White House, and not by Ambassador Crocker and General Petraeus. Is that accurate?

MS. PERINO: Well, let me remind you of a couple of things. The Congress asked for these reports from the President; they asked for the President to report to the Congress. And so the July 15th report will be no different to the September 15th report, in terms of how that works. And the President has said that he's going to take the recommendations from General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker, and then he will consult further before deciding on any possible next course of action.

(From whitehouse.gov)

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:57 PM)

I can not fathom how Tony Snowjob, Perino, Hadley and and any other lier in this administration can look at themselves in the mirror every mornings. I guess a fat paycheck, pension, and hlthcare paid by taxpayers is not such a bad idea.

juan,ft lauderdale,fl (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:34 PM)

Quick Housekeeping: list of quotes from http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/08/again_and_again.php

This administration has clearly misled Americans by talking up General Petraeus' and Amb. Crocker's role in this report. I'm not surprised this report will be put together by the White House, I'm not surprised how the report has been spun, and I wouldn't be surprised if this story withers in the traditional media. Keep this is mind when The Report is delivered. I, for one, will question its credibility.

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:36 PM)

"War is a game that, were their subjects wise, Kings would not play at."--Alexander Hamilton http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/acampbell/ac2.html

John B, Des Moines, IA (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:45 PM)

"Let some democrat talk about sending troops some where with or without the UN and boy howdy what great foreign policy knowledge they have. " You're a babbling fool. Ever thought of running for president? Your type are in great demand.

bush republican (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:52 PM)

I take back all the things I said about Petraeus; maybe he's too much of an honorable man to write a bs report, and that's why the Bushies cut him out of it. Maybe---especially if he's under oath---he'll tell Congress what the Cheney/Bush admin report will not---the truth about the benchmarks, the training of Iraqis and the war in general. It's still a terrific embarrassment for the repub congressmen who've been trying to hold off the Democratic onslaught with promises about the Petraeus report, though. And now, Petraeus is the boxed-in fall guy when he talks to Congress, because the whitewashed white house report will already be out there, before he has a chance to say a word. He must feel betrayed by his callow Commander-In-Chief, too.

Class Warrior, D.C. (Sent Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:37 PM)

Maybe I was wrong about Petraeus. I thought he was just another Bush suck-up...but the Bushies obviously think he's too honorable aman to be trusted with writing the whitewas of a report they need, so they've cut him out of it, and almost kept him away from Congress. Petraeus must feel betrayed by his callow Commande-In-Chief for making him the newest fall guy---the report comes out before he goes to Congress, so, does he tow the party line of the white house whitewash, or does he tell the truth. Either way, he's pretty much screwed...

Class Warrior, D.C. (Sent Friday, August 17, 2007 8:39 AM)

Robert Catalano said: <sigh> Where is Joe McDonald when we need him?

He is still going strong writing socially relevent songs and performing. He is touring with HippieFest and has a great picture on the website of Bill O'Reilly attending one concert. There is a whole section on anti-war songs.

http://www.countryjoe.com/

nuanced (Sent Friday, August 17, 2007 12:11 PM)

nuanced--When I first posted an Iraqed version of "Feelin Like I'm Fixin to Die rag" 6 months ago I sent it to him via his site. It was a big kick to get a gracious response from him as he directed me to all of the hacked versions he has received in the past that he posts on his site. They read like recent US history outline with versions dealing with most every domestic and foreign policy issue since the original. Great site, Great guy.

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Friday, August 17, 2007 3:21 PM)

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