all these states are starting to drive me crazy. why on earth do they feel they have to be first? don't they realize they are just ruining the process. i hate politicians.

Clinton's team has been pushing this all along, wanting Florida earlier in the process, with the hopes of negating South Carolina's imapct completely, where Obama is likely to beat her.  It seems to me that if you have to change the entire primary process just to better your chances - and by replacing one state with  another less red state to boot - that shows SERIOUS weakness in general election crossover appeal in comparison to the other Democratic frontrunners for the nomination.  

Shadow,

I COMPLETELY AGREE!  The Clinton camp is defintely pushing this, but it won't help her.  God sees everything they are doing and He has the last say so.  Not the Clinton's and Bill Clinton is just a man, he is not the end all and be all of the Democratic Party.  

You guys going to stop fighting among yourselves anytime soon?  I need to know so I can plan on looking elsewhere for entertainment in the future.

I think it will back fire on Clintons. Man... they are ready to do anything.

Seriously Lynn, if people had the same nepotism-enabling attitude twenty years ago that they have towards Bush and Clinton now, we never would have heard of either Bush or Clinton, because our last three Presidents would have been Ted Kennedy, Michael Reagan, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

It's a political party, not an entity of government. The parties can choose any method they want to select a candidate. The constitution only protects voting rights in the general election; it doesn't recognize political parties at all. In the past, national parties have rejected state delegates at the conventions for many different reasons and I don't think any of those challenges ever held up.

Richard, Washington State- It's called debate.  I know you are probably not used to it if you are a Republican. Ditto?

Something has to be done to stop the madness.  Every state thinking like it's still the 90s in their me me me first thinking is totally messing everything up.
They think it will bring importance to them but,in reality most states are going to get short changed.  The candidates cannot split into clones to go campaigning everywhere at once.  so, some are going to end up being ignored as a result.
If they quit this selfish thinking they might have had a great shot at not only knowing the candidates and getting to meet their favorites but, we would have had the chance to whittle out some who may turn out to not be such a good bet for the job.
With the campaigns not being able to do more than hit and run campaigning the chances that the voters end up choosing the absolute worst candidate, like Evita clinton, will end up hurting our party and the country in the long run.
Do we really need the female George Bush running things with everything a mess now.

lynn and shadow.  i absolutely agree with both of you.
for one, because our party has been so stupid in picking nominees the past 30 years in choosing the least appealing and most establishment candidate we ended up with one dem prez during that time.  hence, his elevation to near god status when he was a weak president who threw the party under the bus.
Now we are looking at the Clintons selfish egos back in the white house and it depresses me.
We do not need more of the same in spades.  Not just more of the same failed thinking the more of the same corrupt families running our country.
The people need to think about what the hell they are doing to our country in giving it completely over to these corrupt families to keep ruining things for over a generation!
enough Clintons!

Gary:  I enjoy debate and as I stated before (is that a "ditto" too?) I find the current Democrat "debate" as it's played out here very entertaining.

And you know something else, Gary? Your last sentence was presumptuous, uninformed, completely unoriginal, childish and not in the least clever because it's been done thousands of times before and I don't think you are the first one.

Despite that, I will revise my original statement:  

You guys going to stop debating with yourselves anytime soon? I need to know so I can plan on looking elsewhere for entertainment in the future.

So there you go.  I've provided an accomodation in the conversation which is an important element of a debate.  And all you can come up with is a Rush Limbaugh joke, which must be the hundredth time I've seen it here.  

Gary want a cracker?

Go Hillary!

Lynn- just who's "God" are you refering to??  
Gary-  Amen, 'bro.

Shadow, Lynn - have you guys seen any published indication her campaign is involved with Florida Democrats pushing up their date?

can't you people in Florida do anything right.  makes me wonder if the whole state is smoking weed.  First they don't know how to Punch a chad.  Then Miami becomes the road rage capitol of America.  The only good thing about Florida is the gator football and basketball teams, the rest of the state is totally out of their minds.  bad enough you people lost the election for Al Gore, are you going to be responsible for Hillary Clinton losing as well?

Richard, Wa St..You sound just like a bush repub. You all need to think like me and there should be no more discussion.

Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of man? The shadow knows. I agree with Richard, Washington state.
Most of you are so worked up that unless your candidate doesn't get the nomination you will stay home on election day and give the republicans another victory. Most of Obama's support is from young people the ones whose parents fought hard to get the voting age lowered to 18 and they are the ones who by and large do not vote. Vote as you will during the primarys but until then remember the enemy here is not Hillary or Obama or any democrat but the republicans. Vote for the nominee regardless of who it is BUT DO VOTE.

Gary,  Ditto to Dick in Wash State.

Shadow, If you think Clinton is behind FL to negate SC, then apparently you haven;t read the recent polls. This morning, Clinton is 8% ahead of Obama in SC (38-30, Rasmussen Poll). Not bad since she was behind Obama there only recently. Hillary is campaigning hard, but she is playing by the same rules as all other candidates. She just isn't making the public blunders that Obama has been making. And yes, I am a Clinton supporter. However, I also believe Obama has a tremdnous amount of talent and a lot to offer this party and country.

Wow.  Now GOD is going to punish Hillary for wanting an earlier primary date in Florida?  You have got to be kidding me.  Just when you think you've heard everything anti-Hillary you thought you could possibly hear...you get a gem like this.  

This is not a shot at religion but really...God seeking retribution because Hillary allegedly is trying to get a primary earlier?  If SC is so pro-Obama, maybe God will punish him because SC bumped itself up too.  

Unreal.

You are my kind of guy, Rufus Gibbons. I second that emotion.

another good example of the rovian tactics hillary incorporates in to her political machine, hillary is part of the problem in washington, not the answer, you sure she isn't running as a republican? she uses all the deceitful tricks they do

Way to go Carrie. I thought it was only the republicans that had GOD on their side.

To me, whether or not a state has its primary before mine [NY] is immaterial.  I'm not swayed by what happens in other states.  I vote based on my own conscience and values and principals.  Too bad the rest of the country can't do the same. Then this whole contest of being the first primary state would be meaningless. In any event, it seems like there is so much clamor to be the first, I think the primaries already happened.

Hello dumb dumbs, Hillary doesn't have anything to do with whats going on in florida. Its being straightened out as we speak, and we will hear an outcome on saturday. Calm down Clinton haters. Shes not quite THAT powerful guys.

Carrie - jumps to amazing conclusions on Hillary and God (Although some people here treat the two of them as if  they were the same).

Don't look now, but your bias is showing.

Is there any agreement (written or otherwise) that democrats can stick to?  How do you expect any body (except those with blinders on) to believe you can develop the national entitlement programs being tossed out there by the left, in a way that will not turn in to the mess that LBJ's programs turned in to, if you can't even keep this process orderly?

guess God will punish the republicans in MI too-They want to bump up the date or just ave an old smoke filled convention to elect their candidate.Agreed----why is everyone jumping up the dates?What are they trying to hide?Or is it because all the candidates are destroying each other with each day that passes.Gee there won't be an unblemished man or woman left standing.Republicans already telling each other to shut up and arguing over who is the mostreligious.

And then this:
"It always has been a priority of our party to protect the right of every eligible American to vote." How?  By being arrogant enough to give yourself the right to "interpret the intent of the voter?"  By changing the rules of an election process AFTER votes have been cast because the results are not in your favor?  By setting up election laws while you are in power that are designed to keep you in power...only to squeel and whine when you are no longer in power that those rules are unfair?  By registering the dead, the felons or simply the non-existant to vote and in some cases having them vote twice?  By slashing tires?  How is any of that a standard that would allow the democratic party or it's supporters to claim the high road in the mess that exists in our electoral process?  

I know I know...the republicans had the hoods on and were burning crosses to keep people from voting in the last two elections.  Look, the republican's failed themselves by stooping to the habits of democrats in order to stay elected.  They didn't need to do all of the re-districting crap in Texas and elswhere, they didn't need to enact re-call elections all over the country, they dind't need to protect the likes of Mark Foley and they didn't need to jam pork down our throats at budget time to stay in power. If the Rebublicans really want to be just like the democrats they should have the election board in Williamson County, TX design a ballot, approve a ballot and then start playing carnac with those ballots if the votes don't go their way.  

Both parties leadership are extremely flawed when it comes to our national elections.  Just because you favor one side over the other does not mean you should stay blind to the flaws of those you support.  If you do you are simply part of the problem.    

Iowa and New Hampshire have outlived their usefulness as sites for the first contests. Look at how last time around they nominated Kerry, which lost the White House for the Democrats. Their lock on the process needs to be broken or they'll lose the White House in '08, too. Go, Florida!

Although Ms. Clinton may want this, she had nothing to with it.  The Republican Legislature and Republican Governor of the State of Florida, enacted this change in the law.  The Florida Democratic Party had nothing to do with it.  It was purely a Republican idea and decision.

John - Comparing Rasmussen to other polling firms is like comparing apples to oranges.  This was the first poll Rasmussen has done in SC, and polls can only be taken seriously when you look at trends.  For instance, when you look at firms who have polled SC consistently, like ARG (a poll that has if anything traditionally oversampled Clinton's numbers in primary states this year), you see a HUGE bump in Obama's South Carolina numbers between late June and late July; he goes from sixteen points behind her (Clinton 37, Obama 21) to four points ahead of her (Obama 33, Clinton 29).  

Dick, Washington State --
Let me explain this. The operative statement in my post Referred to the absence of debate with in the "big tent" of the Republican Party. For emphasis in my last sentence I used "Ditto" as it has come to use in the popular vernacular as the rote response of callers to the Rush Limbaugh show to anything that he says. Usually somebodies talking points. I believe they even refer to themselves proudly as ditto heads.  As far as it being used hundreds of times, lets look at the core of your illuminating, thought provoking post.

"You guys going to stop fighting among yourselves anytime soon?  I need to know so I can plan on looking elsewhere for entertainment in the future."

Score! Nailed us! Ouch!
But calling us a joke has also been done to death on this board by the likes of Jerry, and Dave tn, and Good ol Darren Pope only they do it better than you. You forgot to call us LIBS, or DUMB LIBS or LEFTIST SCUM, and you forgot to cackle wildly (LOLOLOLL LMAO!) at yourself. But I do like your standard sign off. (Go Hillary) That speaks volumes.

Rufus Gibbons, DC-Amen. Debate, decide, get behind the Nominee. Stifling debate in favor of monolithic unguestioning support of the "inevitable candidate" is how the Republicans ended up with Bush.
But when the convention ends it's time to saddle up no matter who is leading the posse.

shadow Lynn and diane, you are wrong about clinton again.

Sorry, Gary.  You don't know "ditto" or squat about the origins and use of the term "ditto" as it relates to Rush Limbaugh.

Negative Rush Limbaugh references are the rote responses of Democrats.  As is the rote response that implies that Republicans are incapable of independent thought.  If that were true, we'd all be thinking just like you, now wouldn't we?

Where did I call you a joke? I said your debate is entertaining. For it to be a joke, it has to be funny.

I don't do the things you attribute to Jerry, Dave and Darren.  What is it with you that you presume to know enough about me to include me with them?  Seems like monolithic thinking to me.

Go Barack Clinton!
Go John Obama!
Go Hillary Edwards! (Or maybe Elizabeth)

Kelvin, Texas
You hit it on the head! Well said brother!

Richard, Washington State--
You are correct. I wouldn't know much about Rush Limbaugh that wasn't negative.
I am glad that you can come here for your entertainment. I can tell you that it will remain entertaining up to the point, sometime before the convention, when the nominee becomes apparent. At that point my intention, as I am sure the intention of most other Democrats, is to get behind the nominee and work very hard to support that nominee and convince as many people as possible that this candidate and party are committed to putting to rights what as been torn down and broken by this Bush administration. Part of that damage done was the intentional division of this country for political purposes. We cannot function as a nation  this way. That is my only issue with Hillary Clinton. Is she such a polarizing figure that will she provide an opprotunity for the republicans to regain their footing or will the election be so close and her effect on congressional elections be so negative that we merely maintain the current status quo of division and rancour. I know that for this same reason, you and many Republicans are rooting for Hillary as you do with each post.
Those divisions must be healed. I am a part of that problem. I apologize to you and others for harsh words  and assumptions based on this poor medium. In attempting to functioning in this divided environment I have become a player of their games. I will try from now on a more positive tac. I know that the Democratic Party has fielded a far better stable of Candidates than the Republicans and that many in the country are feeling GOP fatique. I admire the front runner greatly and know that she will make a wonderful President as would any of the  other candidates.  Any of them give me hope.
So please, Richard, sit back and be entertained by the process. If we can provide you with some pleasure before we re-take the White House and achieve a functional real majority in the House and Senate then hopefully that will cushion the blow.
"I don't belong to any organized party, I'm a Democrat."
Go Hillary!
Go Barak!
Go John!
Go Joe!
Go Chris!
Go Bill!
Go Dennis!
Go Mike!

Amy B Portland Me. Thanks for the kudo I once lived in the wonderful state of Maine in the town of Montville, loved it but got old bones and moved to Florida.

Geez imagine that Diane agrees with Lyn and shadow. Gods in his heaven all is right with the world.
A party of three?  We can seat you now.

God don't take no stinkin' sides!

Rufus Gibbons we are on the same page, do not turn it.
Great post as they have been all along.

I agree with whoever said that Iowa messed up when it chose John Kerry, but this election is a slam dunk for the Democrats. So this time around Democrats might as well pick someone who actually stands for something and is honest like Barak Obama instead of fake and inauthentic like Edwards and Clinton.

Gary:  

I see real potential with the Democrats this year to have a real convention.  Maybe even the same with the Republicans.  That would be entertaining and interesting and possibly educational.  And the more "debate" between now and then, the better the chances will be.

If the people elect a Democrat president, that man or woman won't have any problems from me other than political B.S. and bantering.  I'll respond to attacks, which is primarily what I do here, but I rarely initiate anything outside of ranting and raving over a few beers with another neanderthal or two.

When all is said and done, we'll all rally to our basic personal philosophies and support our respective candidates while the process does its best to tear each other down, ultimately diminishing the candidates and by extension, the rest of us.  And Republicans do not have a monopoly on divisive politics.  

To paraphrase Forrest Gump, "divisive is as divisive does."  If Republicans do indeed practice divisive politics, I also see little evidence that Democrats have found a way to rise above it. I have to tell you that if I were to judge all Democrats by what I see here, as a Republican I might actually be afraid come January 22, 2009.  That would be a first and I wouldn't blame it on Republicans or George Bush.

Also, I'm not rooting for Hillary.  I'm rooting for more "debate".  I've signed other posts with "Go Edwards" and "Go Barack".  I might have even used Kucinich one time.  Unfortunately, there is no Al Sharpton or Howard Dean this time around.

Anyway, whenever possible, try to keep it light, folks.  But if someone goes over the line, trash em'.

Paul - I don't recall whether I've seen anything particularly pertaining to Florida or not, but I do remember reading something a few months back about the Clinton campaign being in support of the push of bigger states going earlier in the process, and no big state has been pushed earlier faster than Florida.

Jerry - I feel about Florida the same way you do, however the problem in Florida isn't that everyone smokes weed as you suggest, but that they're so uptight, and could probably actually use some to mellow out; people have gotten their cars seized in Miami stings just for buying a *dime* of pot, whereas many police jurisdictions in the US will not even arrest someone for that amount, so we're talking some authoritarian laws here.  It just does wonders for their crime rate to do ten dollar weed stings instead of investigating murders, I guess.

Gary from the Big Sky State, great post.
Sounds like a plan, I am in.

Bob in Cheese-land: I agree with whoever said that Iowa messed up when it chose John Kerry, but this election is a slam dunk for the Democrats.


Funny.  That's what the Democrats said in 2000.  And 2004.  Go figure.

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