The politics of the surge

Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:18 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: White House, Courts, 2008, Security

From NBC's Mark Murray
Here's a quick final thought today since the morning version of First Read isn't publishing tomorrow... Earlier this week, proponents of Bush's troop surge were seeing some things finally break their way just before Gen. Petraeus' September report on the situation in Iraq. First, some Democrats started to speak positively about the surge. Even Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton said it was working in Al Anbar Province, although she added that it was too little, too late (and then stated on Wednesday that the surge failed). Next came the new multi-million-dollar TV ad campaign arguing that a withdrawal from Iraq would be disastrous.

But that good news for the White House and its allies came to a crashing halt today -- with today's updated NIE report (which said that security in Iraq will continue to improve modestly, but that the level of sectarian violence there will remain high), and the speech by GOP Sen. John Warner (who argued that the White House should begin a small withdrawal of troops).

Is it fair to say that we're back to where we were before the week started: that the surge and Iraq remain perilous political issues for the White House and the GOP?

EMAIL THIS

Comments

You bet cha ...hillaryclinton.com for change .

Timothy Dresser, St.Cloud, Mn. (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:30 PM)

Probably a wash unless the American people are ready to buy into his twisted Apocalypse Now Redux on Vietnam. If they do then we deserve this putz and this war and we should begin immediately the rehabilitation of Harry S. Abraham W. Bush.

Gary Schear Bozeman Montana (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:31 PM)

Warner is a pawn in the game , his usual bring 'em home and then never following through. I am sure they have all been to a dress rehearsal.

H P Boston (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:40 PM)

Bush and Cheney are experts on Vietnam; and Dan Quayle is a rocket scientist.

Vladmir, Moscow (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:41 PM)

I know how to solve all of this debating: On the "court", Obama can take her one on one.

Shots a 3 ponter in SC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daH0ltD20A0

Tom, MD (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:43 PM)

This is no longer President Bush's war. It is our war. It is a difficult situation we find ourselves in. I don't believe Senator Clinton has shown very good political instincts on these things. The fact of the matter is there are no quick answers to ending our occupation in Iraq.

I would be interested in hearing a lot of voices. I believe Congress should head back to Washington. All campaigning should come to a halt.

Let's stop the soundbites. We are at a critical crossroad at this moment.

Remember Al Pacino in one of the last scenes in Scent of a Woman? He said that whenever he came to a crossroad in his life, he ALWAYS knew what the right road was to take. Yet he never took it because it was too damn hard. The wrong road was always easier.

Let's take the right road now. Let's not think about the presidential election. Let's think about how we can regain some dignity as a country.

And perhaps prevent more deaths of Iraqi's and American soldiers.

Let everyone have a voice in this. We are supposed to be one country, regardless of party. Let's act it.

Democrat (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:47 PM)

Well, Evita Clinton got herself boxed in with her usual pandering and it coming back to bite her in the ass.

diane (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:53 PM)

From reading books on our Founding Fathers, there was one theme throughout all the biographies. Jefferson, Adams, Franklin etc., were educated men, they had traveled extensively, they had read a great deal about history and philosophy. They had a keen sense of what America should stand for. As someone said not too long ago, America is an idea. It is not a religion, it is not a democratic country or a republican country - it is an idea. We are to this day so fortunate to have had these gentlemen back in the 18th century. Their sense of freedom and liberty and dignity was unique. They got it right.

They put everything on the line so we could live in a democracy. They were considered traitors and could very well have been hanged. Everyone of them.

The Iraqi's situation is much different from ours. Much different. It always was.

Democrat (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:18 PM)

Look like Hillary did not read the NIE again. If you really want change vote for Barack Obama.

Ashe, SF CA (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:58 PM)

Mark - Media Matters is taking MSNBC to task for continuing to say Clinton said the surge is working. I've asked twice, but three times the charm: has the Clinton campaign confirmed your interpretation of her VFW speech? You're implying she's contradicting herself, but that's predicated by your interpretation of her meaning being correct. Have you asked her or her campaign? If so, what's the word?

I'm no fan of Clinton, but I'm less a fan of saying something questionable or (worse) false enough times it becomes conventional wisdom.

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:51 PM)

I wonder what the neocons and the apolgists on this blog are saying now that the most respected of Republicans in the senate is now asking for a phase withdrawal of troops by December. I am sure they will either spin and interpret differently and/or call him a Benedict Arnold.

juan,ft lauderdale,fl (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:19 PM)

hillary on bush side again.

sonya, atlanta, ga (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:33 PM)

Saying we are going to lose this war and to get out is a big mistake. In fact, these congress people ought to be ashamed to say we are losing the war and helping the enemy feel stronger. These people should refer back to their history books and remember that President Abraham Lincoln said "Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged."

D B, San Diego CA (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:39 PM)

Hillary was right, the surge failed because it did not lead to political reconciliation in Irag.

John Henry, Houston, TX (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:36 PM)

As i expected HRC is talking from both side of her mouth.The surge is working yesterday and a total failure today. What i am expected to believe? Another Ads for republican if she is elected. Democrat, please, don't make mistake of electing her. But if you do, please kiss the 2008 election good bye.

Bee (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 1:54 AM)

The Iraq war was and continue's to be a huge mistake. George W. also continues to be a big mistake. As someone who didn't vote for him and worked to see him defeated I could have the last laugh. However, there is nothing funny about the lives that have been lost in Bush's war.

END THE MADNESS- END THE WAR

Geralyn Jerome Portland, Me (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 7:08 AM)

Hillary's modus operandi: "Some people do while others don't, but there are always exceptions." Many words, many positions, many changes, but no rational, synoptic consistency. This hag will say anything at any given moment all of which amounts to nothing, but there are always exceptions.

Watch you wallet if Hillary pats you down, Ark!-Kansas (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 8:36 AM)

der furor doesn't like dissenters.

PJ (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 9:04 AM)

One might admire the perverse logic behind the game of reverse chicken Warner is advocating, if he had the guts to advocate for more than a symbolic gesture.

So as I see it the threat Warner is proposing is that if the Iraqi’s don’t stop killing each other and if they don’t stop obstructing the path to reconciliation, we will pull back our troops so that you can have an easier time killing each other and obstructing reconciliation.

Anyone who has ever dealt with unruly children knows that threats don’t work. There has to be consequences for failure. Currently the only people suffering consequences are our service men and women, their families and the Iraqi people. When the republicans in congress stop playing games and do their jobs, representing the American people; not the Bush administration, they will assess the situation and support decisions in the best interest of the American people (our troops included) and stop protecting a policy that was doomed to failure.

Ralph Gravelle, Mexico, NY (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 9:34 AM)

Well said, Democrat!

Amazed, Atlanta GA (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 9:43 AM)

Hillary Clinton - the new John Kerry. The surge worked, before it didn't work.

Hillary is always right because she somehow manages to take every side of an issue.

Lil Anderson (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 9:54 AM)

hillary clinton has been bought out by the war contractors, surprised? she will keep killing american kids so that the money flowing to her and her bosses doesn't see any interruptions, hillary represents all that is currently wrong in washington, she in no way represents change

MK,MO (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 9:55 AM)

There is perfectly no reason we cannot withdraw troops and focus on Al-Queda (sic) more exclusively. It's too bad about the sectarian violence....but we are so occupied with being police I'm sure our efforts to trample terrorist networks have been hurt.

CJ (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:11 AM)

Remember, we 'Won' the Tet Offensive of 1968. But the day after we declared 'Victory', it was the Same Old Spit. Can you say 'Quagmire' in either Vietnamese or Arabic? (If you can, try it in Farsi.)

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:18 AM)

Bee, please oh please ms. democrat....vote democratic on election day. And diane, if Hillary gets the nomination you will be voting for? or not voting?

bb (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:24 AM)

D B, it is you who should be ashamed for continuing to paint the majority of Americans as traitors because we won't continue to mindlessly follow a failed policy just because it's of political benefit to "leaders" who seek to amass the powers of dictatorship. Does that tempt you to call me a "Bush hater"? So be it that I love my country and don't wish to see it destroyed.

John B, Des Moines, IA (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:28 AM)

Hillary is the best candidate to run up against the right wingers. She is pulling to the middle during this election but is left of center. Mrs.Clinton will capture much of the female, afro american and hispanic voters to win the presidency. Sorry all you Clinton haters.

Susan, Miami (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:31 AM)

Hillary is the strongest and the smartest,and we'll get Bill back too as a bonus.

JeanneGA (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:32 AM)

Both sides of her mouth,COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVE mean anything how about "I wanna be a uniter"Say what you must to get the electorate to give you one extra vote than your opponent,KARL ROVE 101 listen and learn

ken"HAHA"O (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:35 AM)

the GOP wants Obama as the nominee..

Tuck, Btown,Kansas (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:36 AM)

WARNER and collins and liberman all have blood on thier hands if you continue to talk about leaving but never do anything voting why

Kenn"sh@t or get off the pot (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:37 AM)

George go back to sleep, it will all be over in 437 days.

Barbara Bush (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:40 AM)

Blaming the people who are trying to fix the problem because they differ in their approach or are not pure enough is shameful. The blame lies with those who created the problem and are doing nothing but continuing to dig us into a deeper hole. We should praise everyone from those who say stop digging to those who say start filling, whether slow or fast.

nuanced (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:42 AM)

Sen Warner was absolutely right. The only way to force the Iraqi government to get off of their behinds and start defending their own nation is for the US to start bringing home some of the troops. As long as we stay in Iraq, there is no incentive for the Iraqi's to do sh#t about their own security. Why should they, the US is protecting them, in their opinion let the americans die for our freedom in the meantime lets all go on a month long vacation. Iraq has become a death trap for our military and George Bush and all those who voted for this "made up" war should be tried for murder of more than 3500 americans.

Ricardo in California (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:44 AM)

Warner called for withdrawing up to 5,000 troops by Christmas. Not really a serious proposal. At the current rate of 1,000 wounded per month and 100 KIA...the Iraqis will accomplish it for us. If Warner, Specter, Lugar, etc. were serious...they'd show it with their votes. Talk is cheap.

Al, KS (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:44 AM)

I noticed that Obama supporters say very nasty things about Clinton but Clinton supporters don't do that to Obama. Interesting. Hmmmmm. My God Hillary is powerful! He,He.....

Susan,Miami (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:44 AM)

In the interview with CNN, Obama also seemed to echo Clinton's controversial comments from earlier in the week that the surge was "working" in some areas, but reiterated his position that the U.S. should begin an "orderly withdrawal" from the country.

"We know that our troops are performing well under the surge and there has been a temporary reduction in violence,” he said. “But we also know that none of the Iraqi factions have taken seriously the need to come to political accommodation, and we can't create a stable Iraq until that happens — which is why I believe that we need to — more than ever — initiate the kind of responsible, orderly withdrawal that will trigger a change in behavior on the part of the factions.”

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

I am sure that he, "nailed it!", yet again.

Van

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:49 AM)

why does diane hate a democrat so much?does she remind you of your stepmother?

AOwaytogoOhio (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:56 AM)

I told you so...Iraqi Parlement on vacation, while U.S. troops die defending "their" country. This is "outrageous". And were spending 9 Billion+ dollars "every" month to be in Iraq. Finally everone is becomming aware of the real situation. We are not dummies, we wern't born yesterday. The U.S. is being taken advantage of by the so called Iraqi goverment.It's time we send a clear cut message, and start withdrawing troops "immediately". Not in December NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW ! YES NOW!!!!!! al-Maliki and the Iraqi goverment will understand this.

Z (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:04 AM)

Obama/Feingold '08 !!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:11 AM)

Warner is pandering to few because he wants to be elected again.5000 out of 150000 or 170000 brought home?A pittance---but then he goes on to say it is cocBush is the only one that bring the troops home.This country grows more ill by the day.All we get is blah,blah,blah and NOTHING ever gets decided or done.Watched GODS CHRISTIAN WARRIORS last night---to see how Bush was elected to destroy this country in the name of religion was a frightening nightmare.As much reliious hate here as there is in the middle east.

HMT-MI (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:12 AM)

Duncan Hunter in 08!!!!!

Reply to democrat here

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/08/courage_cowardice_and_the_word_1.html

Dave, Tn (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:44 AM)

DB should we imprison everyone for using freedom of speech. Again with the cherry picking a statement to bash your fellow americans. DB loosen up that brown shirt and breathe. Do not fear freedom. I know you are scared but freedom is good. People voicing opinions is the only way to resolve issues. In DB's world nobody is allowed to speak up. They blindly follow der fuhrer right or wrong. Only warm and fuzzy feel good things are suppose to be said about the Iraq war. Americans dying is the price of politics for DB. It is more important that the republican party looks good no matter how many americans have to die. DB looks good with a brown shirt, but very scary.

bobf (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:51 AM)

D.B. in San Diego
Abraham Lincoln never said that. Whoever told you he did is a liar.

Brian, Hamden,CT (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 12:03 PM)

Gary Schear: 'unless the American people are ready to buy into his twisted Apocalypse Now Redux on Vietnam. If they do then we deserve this putz and this war'....
Sorry, the American people get the government they want.
In the long run, the American people get the government they deserve.
We have rotten politicians, but they reflect the character of the American people.
Sorry, Gary, we're a bunch of pampered, spoiled brats
We've had it too good for too long.
Hollywood has brainwashed us into thinking that we all live 'happily ever after'

I don't think there's a happy ending to Iraq.
People have 'plans' and 'strategies', but it's all hogwash !!
THE WAR IS LOST...
WE CAN'T 'WIN' !!
American doesn't ALWAYS WIN !!!

Diane, nice phrase, Evita Clinton !!
(don't cry for me, Hope, Arkansas)
I wonder if Imelda Clinton works, too ?
(now where are my gold plated pumps ??)

Sierra, San Francisco (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 12:23 PM)

D.B. SanDiego...you cannot compare the Civil War to the War in Iraq. The Civil War was a war of necessity fought because our country was being fractured in two. President Lincoln was trying to save the Union. He understood the gravity of the situation he found himself in and chose to try and and preserve the "United States Of America". Although he wanted to end slavery, the preservation of the Union was his utmost duty and responsibility. Iraq was no threat to us and our way of life. Iraq was a war of choice fought to secure our oil interests in that region and the 9/11 attacks were the excuse. Our Congressmen, Senators, public officials at the state level, the ordinary man or woman on the street, have every right in fact they have every obligation to question the legitimacy of this war and to try to effect a reasonable end to it. There is no sabatoge here, in fact I would say the people who are courageous enough to speak out are the true patriots because they like Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, etc, "have a keen sense of what America should stand for". What we are doing in Iraq was and is Un-American.

Laurie, Manasquan, NJ (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 12:37 PM)

Hillary Rodham Clinton, our first female democratic president. Go Hillary!

bb (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 1:29 PM)

I am a college student in Fla and we have a big crowd here at UNF who will be voting for Hillary. Go Hillary!!

Cassie (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 1:31 PM)

Sierra is really Jerry.

G (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 1:51 PM)

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