Mark, isn't the window closing as far as time in this election? Regardless of polls, aren't we going to basically know the nominees by February? The primaries are so early.

Like others here, I hope we see a lot of polls in the upcoming weeks showing which candidate stands where in the pollings for the first three states in the primary - Iowa, NH and SC. Aren't these the really critical states we need to watch?

VAN , here you go , do your thang

The 08' race is over! Hillary/Edwards wins over Rudy/Romney, by a 3 to 1 margin. Bush faces criminal charges. The "Gay Old Party" will never be the same. Jerry has a nervous break down and his brother waynetx continues reading fairy tales.

Ron Fournier is also the author of the recent, widely circulated,

"Clinton a Drag? Dems Fear Her Negatives",
story from August 12th, 2007.

I'm not saying the guy has an agenda, but he sure seems to be saying that himself.

Interesting side note;

Senator Clinton has held, or increased her leads in most of the polls since Fournier's article on 8/12.

I can't wait for his stories on the other major candidates.

Van

EDWARDS 08!

Pat, Boston, MA

The polls in Iowa will be meaningless, not only because the polling sample isn't restricted to verified caucus goers, a very small % of eligible Iowans, and the number of registered Democrats who attend the caucus has never exceeded 20%, but also most Iowans decide late. In 04 caucus exit polls showed that 42% of those who attended the caucus made up their mind in the last week before the caucus, and only 30% had made up their mind more than a month prior to the caucus (a large % of those were the ones committed to Dean). If you look at the polls in 03 and until two days before the caucus, and you believed those polls you would conclude that Kerry was going to get killed. As late as mid January Kerry was in 4th. The only poll he lead in was the Des Moines Register poll two days before the caucus, other polls released that day and the day before had Kerry 2nd and 3rd. Not only did Kerry win, he won by 12% more than the support shown in the only poll he led in. Bottom line Iowa was wide open then although you wouldn't have known from the media coverage and its wide open now. It is not a 3 candidate race.

I really don't think this was shot against anyone---Geesh!!! WE get it--You like Hillary Clinton--lots of people do.  He's right this race is far from over.  I think he may be talking more about McCain than he is anyone else. With the events of the last few days I personally could imagine a scenario in which are two nominees are Romney and Obama!!! To somewhat squeaky clean nominees in political terms

The difference between Kerry's run and now is that its not the usual bunch of boring white guys in dark suits.  

Many, many more people and different types of people are paying attention.  

Furthermore, Obama and Edwards are in the way of anyone gaining traction because they are constantly pulling the spotlight to themselves.  

Hillary is a magnet for attention.

So, neither Dodd, nor any of the rest of the nominal candidates has a hope in hades of breaking out.

Lewis, I'm thinking along the same lines as you. Romney/Obama.

Sara, thanks. No one I talk with wants to vote for Hillary Clinton, yet the polls are telling me something entirely different. And if she continues to lead in the polls, I think that perception alone will be enough to persuade democrats to vote for her.

Perhaps you're right.

Messrs. Murray and Fournier: If what your saying is that Dodd will win the Dem. nomination, just tell me how much you want to bet and where I lay my money down.  By the way, if you really wanted to offer some valuable insight, the key development here is not that the firefighters endorsed Dodd.  Rather, the key development is that they did not endorse Edwards.  If they had, then you might have actually had a point.  

Joe - The point being made was that around this time in 2003, Kerry (who was thought to be out of it) picked up a key endorsement.  Now it is Dodd who has picked up the key endorsement.  I don't think they are saying Dodd is going to be the nominee but more that there is no telling what could happen in the next few months.  

And as Sara said, Iowans tend to deliberate for quite a while before making their decision.  I'm sure everyone thinks I am a die-hard Hillary supporter.  I'm not even sure I will caucus for her.  I think she gets a lot of undeserved criticism in comparison with the other candidates, and I respect and admire her.  But if I think another candidate is better, then I will throw my support in his direction.  

Hey, Pat in Boston, you are wrong.  Everyone I know is supporting Hillary.  You need to widen your circle.

There is a difference between ideology and reality.  Dreamers hope for a pure leader to inspire. Realists just want to get something positive accomplished.

Macain kissed his chance away giving Bush the big hug and kiss during the 04 election after what rove and bush had done to him independants and demos saw he had no backbone to stand up to the bully .He could have been running as vice president right now if bush wasnt an ass and macains ego wouldnt let him approach kerry ,so long funny man

How the heck are the polls still placing Clinton and Gulliani at the top.  No one I talk to even remotely supports either of the candidates, yet they remain at the top.  Something seem a little out of wack here.  I agree with Pat and Lewis... Obama and Romney will win the nominations.

I agree with bionic woman, Hillary gets my support.

It is really horrible to think that most of you are all bleeding heart liberals.  Why would you support Hillary or Obama. At least I believe he is a family man.  We had a Clinton in the White House once - do we really want a repeat performance. Not me.  Do I think that Bush is doing a great job - not especially - but right now this is what is happening - he can't get re-elected so what is everyone being so hard on him.  Look at what we have to pick from in '08.

 God help us and the whole United States if either Clinton,Edwards or Obama win the 2008 election.

<Hillary is a magnet for attention. >

She's a magnet all right, for corruption.

I am so happy with the Democratic candidates I could vote for any of them.Now if I had to pick a republican Ron Paul would be the guy--except for his stand on roe v-wade.metal hangar time for the american women---lived through it once never again

I don't haul any axes to grind right now, anyway, but from what I see, I'd say Romney is the "presumptive" Republican nominee (and believe me, as a Mass. resident I was disappointed he just ended up making my native state the butt of jokes) because Giuliani is too flaky and too old-looking, and Thompson too shallow, though I hope Huckabee comes along strong. On the Dems side, I don't think Obama has enough bulldog in him, and his neck is too thin, so I think Hillary is going to take him to the cleaners. So look for Romney vs. Hillary and Romney pulling it off in a squeaker. He's not much farther from Bush on Iraq than Hillary is, so that's going to hurt Hillary.

Fred Thompson/Ron Paul 2008 and all the way to the White House!!!

Steelworkers endorse Edwards!  WooHoo!
Carpenters and Joiners endorsed today too.

So - look for more haircut stories from the CORPORATE media that hates unions.

Chuck Todd, himself, said the polls are not much to take to any real seriousness right now.  I suspect the focus on polling is to fill the time on news shows.
Also, look for a real explosion from Obama as we go into fall.  maybe after Oprah

Poll is nothing but a gabbage. Electorate will make up their mind in the last week of the election. Joe Biden is right when he said people haven't made up their mind. There is still chance for Obama, Biden and Richardson come Jannuary.

I guess Hillary has all the chinese money that she needs to run all the way in 08.

while it is too early to announce the tickets, I can only hope that Barrack can overcome the spell comrade clinton (sorry she does not deserve to be capitalized) has over the people. We need new leaders with new ideas not more of the same partsian politics that has handcuffed this country for too long. At least Sen. Obama is looking for a balanced input to his presidency something no other candidate in either party has brought up.

If you have any respect for America,, You better Vote GOP!!  I will not have a filthy two face paper Hanging painted clown for a President. This Painted clown is self serving and demands to be president!!  A liar """OPEN FACED LIAR"" to set in front of the camera,s and say she knew nothing about a felon collecting money for her war chest!! She knows HSU for over twenty years,, """I didn't Know what he was doing"""LIAR BIT@H!!  Scandal goes where ever she and her scum old man follows!!  
We don't need a goose stepper and a whorelet in the White House!!!!

The Filth and the immoral proxy these two Clintons share, The shame abounds common sense,, Their content of self serving agenda aleardy laid before you as thses two squander your monies to buy the office of the President.  What bafoons America plays this gender card!!! This Painted clown would sell your soul to feed her ego!!

The worst and biggest mistake the Democrats can make in the upcoming election is to place Obama on the ticket.'WHITE MALES" are NOT going to vote for him.He is BLACK.If Hillary wins the nomination it will be a very close election "IF" she wins for the same reason."WHITE" Machochistic---Super inflated Egotistical "MALES" are not going to vote for her.

She will be the next President.  Get use to the idea.

I am an American who lives in New Zealand and just returned form Europe. There is a very strong anti-American feeling everywhere due to Bush and the Republican crusade over the last seven years. Any Democrat will do, with a strong level of support internationally for Clinton.  

Why dont all the Democrats except Hillary and Obama give it up and why dont all the Republicans except Guiliani and .......well why dont all the Republicans just give up!

Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton would not be a healthy development for our democracy, two families in power for over 20 years.  Barack Obama represents the future, not the past like Hillary.  Lets move forward.  

Becky, what the heck is a bleeding heart liberal? We're American citizens, trying to put an intelligent, honest, progressive candidate in the White House in 2009.

We're just thinking out loud, listening to each other's opinions of who we believe may be the best president.

What's with the name calling? This is a serious decision for most of us.

becky , I would take Gravel over bush

I guess we as Americans haven't figured it out yet. I thought this whole Bush Administration would of taught us that, our conventional "Vote within party lines" thinking was out of wack.  I still see a lot of folks who are simply going to vote Republican because that is what they personally identify with, and same with the Democrat voters.  Maybe it's time to break out of the mold a little bit, take a look at the other side. And maybe we can actually solve some of the this political mess.

*exits soap box

BionicWoman, Tucson, AZ , maby you need to widen your cirle , you know get some diversity .

Jesus was a bleeding heart liberal and hands and feet oh and his forehead.....
Jesus loves Hillary and so do I, we bleeding hearts are the WAY, save your souls vote for SENATOR CLINTON.

As an Independent voter, I'm bothered by the bias shown in these "polls" that are often so inaccurate that it's not laughable.  Ron Paul has shown consistent strong numbers yet the media ignores him as the leaders of the Republican party would rather forget about the guy.  Problem is, their constituency is showing strong buzz/support.

I may or may not vote for the guy, but to ignore his presence in the Primary shows the ignorance of your polling.

Russ - I have voted outside party lines before. However, I will not vote for a Republican for president, at least not in 2008.  The way I see it, the only chance we have of getting out of Iraq is for the Democrats to get control of the WH. Otherwise, it's going to be the same old schtick that we have now with the veto and not enough votes to override it.  There are things that need to be cleaned up from the Bush Administration, and my fear is that another Republican sitting in the top spot would prevent that from happening.  

Aside from which, I don't even LIKE the Republican nominees this time around.  

Becky--Thank you for your concern about the condition of our hearts. You are obviously a compassionate conservative.
I will support Hillary, Obama, Edwards or whoever the Democratic nominee is because they will offer a clear alternative to the course we have followed for the past eight years. I agree with you. George Bush has not done an especially good job at anything in his Presidency even though he has had a rubber stamp republican congress to approve his every move. He has mired us in the deadly swamp of Iraq and drained our treasury on  a war of choice that is not returning any benifits, just flag covered coffins. He and the Republicans have lost pallets of 100 dollar bills in Iraq totaling in the billions while watching an American city be deystroyed and placing the plight of it's American citizens behind that of the alleged goal of establishing a democracy for people who don't even want to be a nation. He has tipped the supreme Court to the conservative side there-by giving republicans effective control of all three branches of Government during his tenure and what has he been able to accomplish except for the poisiness division of this nation? He has suspended Habeaus Corpus, the corner stone of all liberty for the sake of safety thus insuring that we as a nation deserve neither. He has turned the Justice department into his own private law firm and political hatchet squad destroying it's credibility and causing the hemmorage of generations of DOJ legal experience as the professionals leave in disgust. In short Becky, George bush, aided and abetted by the Republican Party AND some Democrats who should have opposed his every move, has made a huge mess, to put it kindly. Because of this I think that we are not being hard enough on him. I hope that history will paint him in he harsh light of the reality that he created.
And so I ask you, how could you support anybody that aided and abbetted this un-natural disastor of a man? Why would you support the party that aimed this loose cannon and discharged it in the face of this nation? Look at what we have to pick from in '08?
I did.
I see nothing but competence and energy on the Democratic side and I see nothing but the people who gave us George bush on the other. It truly is a no brainer.

How the heck are the polls still placing Clinton and Gulliani at the top.  No one I talk to even remotely supports either of the candidates, yet they remain at the top.  Something seem a little out of wack here.  I agree with Pat and Lewis... Obama and Romney will win the nominations.

Tommy, Denver, CO (Sent Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:52 PM)


This seems to bear repeating:

Op-ed: Clarence Page on 'birds of a . . .feather'

BY CLARENCE PAGE | Clarence Page is a syndicated Chicago Tribune columnist based in Washington. James Klurfeld is off.
   August 24, 2007


 
There they go again. I'm listening to a political call-in program on the radio, and a caller says he doesn't believe the major opinion polls. "And everyone I've talked to feels like I do."

Wow. Somebody break the news to Gallup, Harris, Roper, Zogby and all those other pollsters. They're all washed up. Politicians and major corporations don't need to keep spending gazillions of dollars on polls and focus groups. All they have to do is talk to this guy's pals.

One of my pet peeves is when people don't stop to realize the whole world might not be thinking about or experiencing things the same way they and their friends do. In politics, economics and other current affairs, people often are influenced less by facts than by their friends. Increasingly, sociologists are finding that, whether we intend to or not, birds of a political feather flock together.
(read the whole article here)

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-opklu245343325aug24,0,2597236.story

Polls DO mean something, to the candidates, their organizations, their financial contributors, to name a few. The reason why the polls don't mean anything to some is because, well, their guy is behind. That logic is much more suspect than the polls.


Van  

JPJ, I agree with you as far as the Bush/Clinton dynasty. However, MSNBC showed a poll recently which drew a conclusion that about 75% of the voters in this country don't care about the Bush/Clinton/
Bush/Clinton empire.

I found that a little troubling to be honest. But I think people believe Senator Clinton is really tough and she has shown, to her credit, that she has no intention of taking a back seat to the Karl Rove's of the world.

People really like to beat her up. Yet as I watch and listen to her, I'm finding that in many ways, whether she's elected or not, that she really is quite remarkable.

She's not perfect. Which is something she has in common with her rivals in this campaign.

I'm a white male, and I'D vote for Obama. Guess there goes THAT theory...

The worst place to be right now is as front runner, if only because after a certain point in time, you become 'old', and people start looking for something else.  Comes down to the wire, and people will really start to wonder if Clinton is that interesting (she's not) and if Rudy G really has anything resembling character (not much), and start looking further down the ticket. Obama and Edwards will BOTH make it tough for Clinton, and don't be surprised to see McCain resurgent (if eight years too late).

united we stand devided we fall,as I continue to watch the canidates verbaly assault each other which in turn encourages the voters to go likewise is there any wonder we are losing our grip? WE all have a choice and I believe we can make it with just a little bit of class and integratity.The canidates ought to be leading us in that direction.How are they to work with other countries when they can't
work with each other.In my opinion a little prayer every now and then would serve this country a great deal better.We should be sick of all the nasty nonsence.We have our boys in a country losing their lives to show people a better way to live. Most of them pray and we pray for them but continue to attack one another. WHY?

What does "bleeding heart" mean anyway? Maybe, caring about the downtrodden? Isn't that what Jesus advocated? Maybe if the so called religous right had REALLY been Christians, we wouldn't be in such a mess today. Yea, my heart bleeds, when I see what George W Bush and is neo con buddies have done to my country, and to the world.

The Clinton's were scum bags then & they're scum bags still!

S.U. // Az said: "If you have any respect for America,, You better Vote GOP"....wow, or what, you'll send Guido after me. I have infinite respect for the ideas upon which this country was founded. Its why the neo cons must be dumped. Phonies every one.

A couple of things: I see an awful lot of Democratic kissing but I don't see a fair and balanced assortment of Republicans. I don't profess to be either party. I vote for the person who shares my values and morals the closest. To vote for someone who is willing to "kill" a baby with the abortion law and call it freedom of speech is wrong. To vote for someone who has been in a scandal from governorship through the Presidency is wrong. Just because it is the other spouse running for President, doesn't clean the slate. I am going to vote for the person who values family (between a man and a woman marriage), who values life from conception (yes! Conception: it has been proven they are ALIVE), and who values the one and only God that brought our pilgrims to these great shores in the first place. May God have mercy on your souls.

Marilyn: Thanks for your post. I agree with you about working together, and about the power of prayer. And yes our boys are dying in Iraq. Most I'm sure are very sincere, some have not been. Have we shown them a better way to live? Have you seen the facts on how many children now go to school in Iraq, very few, the majority do not have clean water to drink, the basic needs. Billions of dollars for reconstruction has gone somewhwere...??? Our voting in '08 needs to say that we're tired of the way things have been done. We can't show some one else how to live till we figure it out ourselves. (Take the speck out of our own eye). We have a corrupt gov't that needs to be flushed out.

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