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Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Iraq

Posted: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 9:10 AM by Domenico Montanaro
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So has the surge worked or not? Here's the lead Iraq item from the LA Times: "Baghdad’s neighborhoods continue to split along sectarian lines, violence shifts elsewhere and infighting stalls political progress."

The Washington Post adds, “If there is one indisputable truth regarding the current offensive, it is this: When large numbers of U.S. troops are funneled into areas, security improves. But the numbers only partly describe the reality on the ground. Visits to key U.S. bases and neighborhoods in and around Baghdad show that recent improvements are sometimes tenuous, temporary, even illusory.”

The Politico: “So far, leadership aides in both parties say there are not clear signs that a months-long stalemate [on Iraq], largely on party lines, has broken -- a standoff that has given Bush latitude to continue his policies even as polls show the war becoming steadily more unpopular… Hearings Tuesday and Wednesday will highlight a General Accounting Office report saying that the Iraqi government has failed to meet most of the 18 benchmarks set by Congress to measure progress toward security and stability.” 

David Brooks writes this line this morning, which will become a favorite on the Democratic stump ASAP: "The big change in the debate has come about because the surge failed, and it failed in an unexpected way. The original idea behind the surge was that U.S. troops would create enough calm to allow the national politicians to make compromises. The surge was intended to bolster the ‘modern’ -- meaning nonsectarian and nontribal -- institutions in the country. But the surge is failing, at least politically, because there are practically no nonsectarian institutions, and there are few nonsectarian leaders to create them. Security gains have not led to political gains."

The piece is a bit more optimistic about some local Iraq developments. Could it be that like America, all Iraqi reconciliation is local? Anyway, Brooks concludes: "As September begins, we’re finally moving beyond abstract debates over troop levels and timetables. The key questions now are: Can U.S. troops help Iraqi locals take control of their own neighborhoods? Is it worth more American lives to help them do so? And, if so, how?"

The New York Times covers Bush’s surprise visit to Iraq yesterday, where he emphasized “security gains, sectarian reconciliation and the possibility of a troop withdrawal, thus embracing and pre-empting this month’s crucial Congressional hearings on his Iraq strategy. His visit … had a clear political goal: to try to head off opponents’ pressure for a withdrawal by hailing what he called recent successes in Iraq and by contending that only making Iraq stable would allow American forces to pull back.”

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Bush is playing chicken with our soldiers lives yet again. What a dangerous, horrible person he is. If God is watching us, George is in deep s---.
The Military Can Not Rebuild a Country POLITCALLY!!!! Period, surge working "not" because the politcal side is busted.  Get out now let the Iraqi's figure out their own problems.  It is their country not ours.
Never thought I'd see a modern American president resurrect American Imperialism.
Theres a report out that says the Pentagon has identified 1200 Iranian targets.  This is designed to take out the Iranian military completely not just their nuclear program. Guess that'll start soon!
How about the totally nonsensical statement, "If we leave they will follow us here".  Uhhh...they are already here.  The 9/11 bombers were already here. Just another statement designed to instill fear and for the White House to get its way.
I can hear Fred Rogers now:  "Can you say "whack-a-mole."
George Bush has misled this country down a dangerous path.  When he washes his hands of America's problems one final time on January 20, 2009, his legacy will be clear. He NEVER was the uniter he claimed to be in the 2000 election.  It was always the strategy of his campaign guru, Karl Rove, to divide this country...red states and blue states, prolife and choice, gays, guns, and on and on.  He squandered the goodwill of the American people and the world after the tragedies of 9/11 by plunging the nation into an unnecessary, unorganized, and foolish diversion called Iraq.  At first, Bush the Cowboy Commander-in-Chief, wanted Osama Bin Laden DEAD OR ALIVE. Well...six years later...by all accounts...Osama is very much ALIVE and his terrorist organization is thriving.  He taunted our enemies with BRING IT ON and crowed under banners like MISSION ACCOMPLISHED...all while the deaths of American soldiers and innocent Iraqi civilians mounted.  Bush and Cheney have now told so many lies, the American people no longer believe anything they say.  The insurgency, that was supposedly in its last days, is now a bloody civil war. This is the Bush legacy...lies, failed leadership...BROWNIE, YOU ARE DOING A HECK OF A JOB (Katrina), an attorney general who is a pathological liar, the sellout of this nation to big corporations and on and on and on... George Bush 43 will most certainly be the WORST president this country has ever had!  
Why is the media buying this "Surge is a success" PR campaign? No one doubts that the US military is superior to the insurgents and can not be defeated militarily but unless we're willing to institute a draft and establish a permanent garrison of 3-400,000, we are ultimately doing nothing towards acheiving a longterm solution. And in Al Anbar? The arming of Sunni tribal militia means that the coming Civil War will just be more bloody.

Without political gains, there will be no success. We need a timeline to force the Iraqis to the table because the open-ended policy of this administration is a failure.
I think we all know what Petraeus will say in his report. The surge is working. We need to stay longer.
The whimpy congress will give bush more money and time. More young men will die for nothing and we will continue to spend billions of dollars. We could do this for ten more years and the results would be the same. A bush failure. And bush says he's crying, we all know he's lying. The man does not care!!
NO
Bush mentioned that we should not make decisions based on advise from frightened politicians, but only on the basis of estimates by generals in the field. You may recall that the first important move made after the invasion was by Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, who concluded that the estimate by Gen. Shinseki that about three hundred thousand troops would be needed was way off the mark. It appears that Bush came to support listening to the generals in the field about the time such a piece of advise began to serve his purposes. What a coincidence! He was very happy to ignore such advise before he hand picked the top generals and vetted them as to their values and opinions coinciding with his. Once they were on the same page with him he could venture to listen to them. Incidentally, Shinseki proved to be right, but I've yet to hear from BushCo that they were wrong on this matter, unless their failure to listen to Shinseki was covered in his one time lament that "mistakes were made". The biggest mistake having been made by the Supreme Court when they appointed Bush and gang to the Oval Office. Several books have been written based on other mistakes that "were made". Eleanor Cliff of Newsweek and The McLaughlin Group proposes Bush's eventual exit strategy in her article "Marketing the War", which was on the MSN home page over the weekend. To read it, go to:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20534004/site/newsweek/
It makes a hell of a lot more sense than anything that has come out of the White House. The article was still available as of this writing.
The surge was to give breathing room to the iraqi goverment,much like the reasons that we invaded ,WMD,the surge can be turnsd into whatever you need.If you can find money and troops keep it going until the timeline runs out in the spring .Dont bother with the spin you dont have to convince me just the people and their families that are going to fight it.
Go here: http://icasualties.org/oif/IraqiDeaths.aspx

Table on left, column "civ".

Look at 2005-2206. Look at 2006-2007.

Then try and say "the surge is working" with a straight face.
One more similarity Iraq has with Vietnam, appears to be that both insurgence-movements seem to have read the George Washington Book on Guerilla Warfare, "How to Fight Yankee-Style". Dubya, on the other hand, read King George's book, "How to Fight Redcoat-Style".
Welcome back Congress!  You look tanned, rested and ready to go!
While you were out:

1,809 Iraqi civilians lost their lives

86 of your constituent’s children, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, etc died in combat.

4 from the United Kingdom were killed in action. (No sweat, they can’t vote)

In recent headlines from Iraq:

09/04/07 Reuters: 15 bodies found in Baghdad
09/04/07 Reuters: Iraqi army kills 10 insurgents
09/04/07 Reuters: Roadside bombs wounds 5 policemen in Kirkuk
09/03/07 Reuters: 13 bodies found in Baghdad on Sunday
09/03/07 AP: Iraq Insurgent Group Names Minister. (SEE DEFINITION OF CIVIL WAR)
09/03/07 MNF: Soldier attacked during combat logistics patrol - 1 killed, 3 wounded


The Administrations Iraq report will be coming out of Petraeus’ mouth next Monday. Not much suspense there. Democrats, you probably need to consider that the Republicans see the writing on the wall for ’08 and so are determined to hand this war intact to you, their successors. They are determined to let it be you that does the right thing and cleans up their mess. They are also determined to cast you as “those who lost the war”.
You have a year to make them clean up their own mess and accept responsibility for their blunder. You have a year to expose their strategy of spilling more American blood for political purposes to the American people. Get Busy. See you on September 15.

No more vacations.
Bring them home!
What is it going to take to get our soldiers, our children brought back home.  Let the Iraq people work out their own new government. Bush is delusional, stubborn and just plain wrong. We should have never been in Iraq to begin with.  What do we have to do to get him to listen or to get congress to act?
Great, after all this time it's safe for GW to land at a 15 square mile (!) air base surrounded by hundreds of square miles of open desert, 15 Kilometers from the nearest village, in territory that is experiencing lower violence because we've thrown our lot in with warlords who remain opposed to the central government.  Exactly what what part of this is working?
The evidence is in AGAIN, its not working BRING OUR TROOPS HOME
We're winning the war, we're winning the peace, and the liberals are not happy.

Tells you something, doesn't it?
US casualties Aug 07, 83.  US casualties Aug 06, 65.  How long will we by this phony story that violence has decreased as a result of the surge?  Nothing but more lies in this ware based on lies.
If the surge is such a success, why does the President need enter Iraq in the dead of night, in absolute secrecy, while lying to the press? The very fact that he talks to troops about how things are improving while at the same time the security around him is at an all time high should tell everyone, including the media, that it's a lie.
Randi, your post tells me that there are still Americans who positively refuse to receive the truth. That's all.
<<We're winning the war, we're winning the peace, and the liberals are not happy.

Tells you something, doesn't it?
--Randy McQuarters
>>

That you're as Delusional as our Monkey In Chief? It isn't just liberals that are pissed. When 80%+ of the country is opposed to something, it becomes more than Liberal vs. Conservative, Democrat vs. Republican, Blue State vs. Red State. It becomes The People of the United States of America vs. George W. Bush. Now if only the people who represent 80% of 300,000,000 would get off their asses and stand up to this clown. Don't give him another penny.
Bush's Iraq photo-op was so cute. Do you think maybe those marines behind him were hand picked and told when to cheer and what to say?
"....that recent improvements are sometimes tenuous, temporary, even illusory.” ---whack-a-mole
Bush is concerned about how history will view him. Let's help him become history NOW!
Inpeach Bush and Cheney.
I think everyone on this blog does not want to admit that the surge is working.  It does not mean that the President does not need to be careful going over there. The city he was in was secure enough for him to be there when a year ago it was not.  So, it is working and the liberals are squirming.
How ridiculous President Bush flying into Iraq for a first hand look at the surge and how things are progressing.  A hug, a kiss and a pat on the back makes everything seem worth while.  When President Bush puts together his scrapbook of "My Life as President of the U.S." Surely there will be one photo-op (The Trophy Shot)of President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Powell, and the rest of the "Dogs of War" each with their shot gun and a foot poised on a coffin, encircled by thousands of coffins American and Iraqi with the caption "IT WAS FUN WHILE IT LASTED".  
Yep Blue state baby..It was so dark they had no idea who the hell was there.  They told the troops it was Britney so they did of course cheer and they were supplied bottles of cheer too, yep.
For all of Bush's yammering and stammering, nothing is going to change in Iraq no matter what any report, general, congressman or citizen says.  His mind is made up, has been for years, and he's committed to running out the clock on his failed policies until Jan 1, 2009.  History will treat him worse than he's being treated now because at some point in the future, this administration's hidden, secret documents will become public and will reveal the real depth of his ineptitude and the cynicism this President has for democracy. He has contempt for any one who ever questions his complete lack of humanity and good judgement.  Thousands will die in Iraq over the next year and a half and Bush will still doggedly cling to his tired and ill-conceived notion of creating a "democracy" in the Middle East.  Democracy is walking the streets of Iraq - and the U.S.- without a body-guard, without pre-screened audiences, without a script, listening to those who have not been hand selected for their conservative views and doting fondness for anything Bush.  But without a script, the suit is empty.
so jerry's posting under the name of randy mcquarters now?!
guess we now know what patraeus will say.
We all know that Petraeus will parrot the White House White Wash, and say the surge is good and successful.  I'm glad the dems are smart enough to draw attention to the GAO report that shows the Iraqi gov't hasn't done squat.  We need to have the Dems loudy trumpet the TRUTH before the liars take the stand and publish their sdewed reports, and the Dems in Congress need to AGGRESSIVELY refute the lies and loudly cry the truth during the false testimony coming up.  Let's see the Dems grow a pair and do what the 80% of disgusted Americans voted them in to do.  Otherwise, yes, Bush will be able to hand over the war to the Dems in '09, and then blame them for the inevitable bloodshed that will follow our leaving.  (The Dems also need to remind the country that the post-American bloodshed is only the inevitable reaction of those in Iraq who resented our putting thebrakes on the bloodshed they have been planning all along. It won't be our fault when the blood flows, it will be the rabid-dog Iraqis finally having the fun they always resented us from proeventing them doing.)
Blue/ Do you think maybe those marines behind him were hand picked and told when to cheer and what to say?


Nope.

Don't look now, but when you see troops smiling and embraceing the President of the United States they are not doing so in respect to the man but rather the office the man holds.

Bush's last and recent efforts to establish some sort of legacy for himself is really stupid which Karl Rove always said he was.
>> That you're as Delusional as our Monkey In Chief?


Could this be yet another rabid hater?


>> Now if only the people who represent 80% of 300,000,000 would get off their asses and stand up to this clown. Don't give him another penny.

Confirmed.

Sometimes necessary things are not popular things.  I can see where you wouldn't understand the difference.

Also, that's "Randi", with an "i", knuckle-dragger.  Have someone show you how to use cut-and-paste sometime.
Most people as well as countries can get themselves into a mess very easily all it takes is greed, lies,
ambitions ar just plain arrogance.
Getting out of a mess takes a plan or some type of
stategic thinking with a plan for success that is
flexible and forthright.
 The first prcess Bush is very good at but we need
leaders now in the forefront that are good at the latter.
j bland saint louis missouri,  talking points?  you must not know that the dunce in chief uses his extrodinary security force to make sure that all is secure.  Why does the dunce in chief have to fly in at night and under secrecy?  Why does the dunce in chief always pick soldiers as a back drop to support his message?  Soldiers can not critize civilian leadership without repercussions THAT'S WHY!!!!!!  Give it up, the surge will not work do to the political situation in Iraq.  It is up to the Iraqi's not us.
Wow, you show me any American that really believes that Bush has any compassion or purpose that really is about causing the nation of Iraq to be free democratic nation and I'll show you what I consider to be the only terrorist we need to worry about.  
I saw a couple of ads on the TV over the week-end about the war. One was a soldier with replacement legs as his had been blown off. The other was a widow who had lost her husband in the war. Both ads were saying if we “surrender” now, his legs and her husband’s death, would all be in vain. Who pays for these ads? Is it the taxpayers? If so, how much and why?
GET READY FOR ANOTHER SERIES OF BUSH WACKING LIES.
What if it is working?  How many of you will admit it?  I for one would love to see us succeed there.  Not blinded by anti-Bush rants...
Poke a balloon with your finger, and the air moves somewhere else.

Send 30,000 troops into a region to quell violence, and the violence moves somewhere else.

An exit from Iraq will be very messy, no matter when it happens. Thus, Bush and the Congressional Republicans will continue to poke the balloon with their corrupted fingers until January 2009, claiming the balloon is sure to pop soon. Then, they can blame the Democrats for the messy pullout and try to reclaim the White House in 2012.

The surge isn't working and it will not work, no matter how long they are there. What is inevitably going to happen is the Shi'a militias will wipe out and dominate the Sunnis, probably establishing a Shi'a dictator of some sort. So we should just stand on the sidelines making sure they don't spill over into neighboring countries and let them have at it. That will stabilize the country - which is what we want - and we will lose far less troops that way.
J BLAND............. READ MY FIRST POST IF THE SURGE IS WORKING THEN YOUR FOR SENDING IN TWICE AS MANY AND IT WILL WORK TWICE AS WELL.THE REASON FOR THE SURGE WAS TO GIVE THE IRAQIS A CHANCE TO BREATH WE DID NOT INVADE TO BRING DEMOCRACY WE INVADED FOR WMDS.WE DIDN'T SURGE TO DRUM UP BETTER STATS.
"So, it is working and the liberals are squirming."


The "liberals" didn't want to go in the first place, and would like nothing better than to see it come to an end along with the end of American deaths there. "Squirming" is exactly what your brilliant analysis is. I swear, the sum of Bush supporters' I.Q.s doesn't break double digits.
To allow the stupidity of Bush's war to extend into the year 2009 democratic administration to clean up and leave Iraq isn't a pretty thought. Congress should demand the process to withdraw now and get the mess cleaned up for the arrival of some intelligence in the white house, followed by a proper investigation to reveal any or all improper conduct by the previous administration. Of course our democratic president will pardon Bush for his illegal activities in order to protect the office of the President, yet the Americans needs to know the truth. I think it about time all American citizens learn why any nation or person abroad would want to harm America. During my life here I’ve learned the only nation one can not trust is the USA and I also think it time this stop.
The showboating of Bush's arrival in Iraq is almost as stupid as his back seat landing aboard an aircraft carrier. Why is it I keep having to put up with this failure?
Most people as well as countries can get themselves into a mess very easily all it takes is greed, lies,
ambitions ar just plain arrogance.
Getting out of a mess takes a plan or some type of
stategic thinking with a plan for success that is
flexible and forthright.
 The first prcess Bush is very good at but we need
leaders now in the forefront that are good at the latter.
If this is a cross section of the public's opinion of the surge, then hurray for our ability to see through the spin. This is an occupation to impose our influence in the MidEast, and it appears a lot of Iraqis have other ideas. I hope we can find ways to genuinely assist the Iraqi people, but what we're doing now is offensive in every respect.

Let's change the dialogue now, and demand realistic, truthful approaches toward fixing the mess we've made. Let's stop occupying Iraq, and start asking ourselves what our real role ought to be.
Mark Y - you're delusional - a common state for a lib.
"The Surge" is working beautifully - it's giving the brain-dead bleeting sheep Bush supports a new phrase to parrot and distracting the not-much-smarter "liberal" media.
J Bland, what evidence have you that says the surge is working?  Military casualties are up.  Civilian casualties are up.  The number of people fleeing their homes to escape the ethnic cleansing is up.  The areas being turned over to Iraqis by the British are falling almost instantly into civil war.  The Iraqi central government has done almost nothing with the "breathing space" the surge was supposed to provide.  Where is the evidence of success?
Mark y- youre right and Jerry is also posting under the name J Bland... cause thats how he feels about himself, boring and bland.


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