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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



MI Dems: Why not punish NH, too?

Posted: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:43 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: ,

From NBC's Chuck Todd and Mark Murray
Per the AP, Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm (D) today signed legislation into law moving up her state's primary to January 15, even though Michigan Democrats now face the prospect of losing all of their delegates to the Democratic National Convention by violating DNC rules.

And on the same day that Granholm signed this into law, Michigan Democrats Carl Levin and Debbie Dingell have drafted a letter -- obtained by First Read -- asking the Democratic National Committee why it's ready to penalize states like Michigan and Florida for moving up, but not New Hampshire?

"Michigan Democrats, while disappointed our state was not selected as one of the four 'pre-window' states [IA, NV, NH, SC], announced they would abide by the DNC calendar, unless New Hampshire or another state decided to ignore the rule establishing that sequence and that calendar," Levin and Dingell say in the letter. "It didn’t take New Hampshire long to say it would violate the calendar. New Hampshire’s Secretary of State, with the support of the state’s Democratic and Republican chairmen, indicated on August 9 that he was going to hold the NH primary before January 19, 2008. This announcement was made at a joint public ceremony and in partnership with South Carolina Republicans who had announced that they would hold their GOP primary on January 19."

More: "We object to your continued silence and acquiescence in the face of New Hampshire’s stated intent to blatantly violate the DNC rules and sequence... Selective enforcement of our rule undermines the progress achieved -- to open the process potentially for all states."

*** Update *** We now have a copy of the final letter, which has a few slight changes from the draft quoted above.

Governor Howard Dean, M.D.
Chairman, Democratic National Committee   
Democratic Party Headquarters
430 South Capitol St., SE
Washington, DC  20004

Dear Governor Dean,

 America has many strengths.  Two of its greatest are our strong democratic traditions, and the rich diversity of our people.  We Democrats take pride in the fact that, of the two major parties, we best represent this diversity.
 
 It is therefore hard to understand how one of our most important democratic processes -- the nomination of our candidates for the presidency -- has been unduly dominated by two states, neither of which is particularly reflective of this diversity.

 New Hampshire and Iowa have had a hugely disproportionate impact on our presidential nominating process, with more access to candidates and visits from candidates than probably all the other states combined during the primary and caucus season.  Other states, including Michigan, have issues critically important to them.  These states would like candidates seeking their support to understand and address these issues, and urged the DNC to make the process more democratic and thereby more reflective of our diversity.

 The DNC approached this issue cautiously and with due diligence.  A Commission representing diverse party constituents was appointed to make recommendations.  The Commission then held a series of comprehensive public hearings.  Ultimately, the Commission recommended a modest change in the traditional schedule, which New Hampshire opposed. It recommended that two caucuses be held, then two primaries, and then the “window” for the rest of the states would open.

 On August 19, 2006, the Democratic National Committee (DNC) set the dates for the selection of delegates to the 2008 Democratic nominating convention as follows:

· at Iowa caucuses held no earlier than January 14, 2008;
· at Nevada caucuses held no earlier than January 19;
· at a New Hampshire primary held no earlier than January 22; and
· at a South Carolina primary held no earlier than January 29.

The rest of the states could then hold their caucuses or primaries to select their delegates after the opening of the “window” on February 5, 2008.

Michigan Democrats, while disappointed our state was not selected as one of the four “pre-window” states, announced we would abide by the DNC calendar, unless New Hampshire or another state decided to ignore the rule establishing that sequence and that calendar.

 On August 9, New Hampshire’s Secretary of State, with the support of the state’s Democrats, indicated that he was going to hold the New Hampshire primary before January 19, 2008, a clear violation of the DNC rules.  This announcement was made at a joint public ceremony and in partnership with South Carolina Republicans who had announced that they would hold their GOP primary on January 19.

 One of New Hampshire’s purposes was to push the New Hampshire primary ahead of the Nevada caucus which the DNC’s rule had scheduled for January 19.  New Hampshire’s transparent action reflected its determination to maintain its privileged position of going immediately after Iowa, despite the DNC calendar.

 Those of us who fought hard to loosen the stranglehold of New Hampshire on the process saw you stand by silently.

 But when the Florida legislature changed the date of the Florida primary to a date before the window opened, you promptly determined to punish Florida Democrats by threatening to not seat their delegates if they abided by their legislature’s decision.  You still maintained public silence about the New Hampshire Secretary of State’s decision to violate the DNC rules, a decision, again, which was supported by New Hampshire Democrats.

 In the past, New Hampshire maintained its discriminatory privilege and dominating role because our party would not take them on and because of the gun that New Hampshire holds to candidates’ heads, insisting that they pledge not to campaign in any state that encroaches on their primary.

 Our national party began the process of taking that gun away from the heads of our candidates when we changed the sequence and put New Hampshire third instead of second in the period prior to the opening of the window.  The battle that we fought was over the sequence of the primaries and caucuses.  New Hampshire either pushing ahead of its assigned position or increasing the distance between its primary and the opening of the window for the rest of the states violates the purpose of the rule.

 It was a hard won, albeit partial, victory, allowing our party to better reflect the diversity of America and to begin to inject some fairness in a process for states whose role had been diminished election after election by the dominance of two states.

 Michigan Democrats are determined to fight to maintain that victory.  We object to your continued silence in the face of New Hampshire’s stated intent to violate the DNC rules.  As Chairman of the Democratic Party, you had the obligation to state your intent to apply the rule to New Hampshire Democrats when its Secretary of State announced his intention to move the New Hampshire primary prior to January 19.  Selective enforcement of our rules undermines the progress achieved -- to open the process potentially for all states.

 We have not seen any public statement from the DNC following New Hampshire’s announcement on August 9 that they would move their primary before January 19 in clear violation of the DNC rules.   Your silence in the face of New Hampshire’s action is a stunning contrast to the DNC’s reaction to Florida.

 In the face of New Hampshire’s decision to violate the DNC rules and your silence concerning that decision, and given our strong feelings about the need to reform our nominating process to make it fairer, Michigan’s Democratic leadership decided to elect our delegates on January 15, 2008, the date the Michigan legislature set for the Michigan primary.  (See attached statement.)

 Someone has to take on New Hampshire’s transparent effort to violate the DNC rules and to maintain its privileged position. Hopefully the DNC will, and you will, promptly urge our candidates to stop campaigning in New Hampshire because of the New Hampshire’s expressed intent to violate the DNC rules.

 New Hampshire’s gun remains at our candidates’ heads and they fear the repercussions to their campaigns in New Hampshire if they don’t sign the New Hampshire pledge -- dramatic proof, if any more were needed, of the disproportionate impact of the New Hampshire primary.

 Maybe Florida will join us if we have to take our case for the seating of our delegates to the Democratic convention in Denver.  And maybe Nevada will insist on maintaining the number two position assigned to it.  Maybe one or more of our Democratic candidates will join us.  In any event, there cannot be one set of rules for New Hampshire and one set for every other state.  We are determined that Michigan not be bound by rules that are not effectively enforced against other states.


   Sincerely,

   Carl Levin and Debbie Dingell

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Comments

Or maybe it's just another smokescreen to mask the sinking of the 'USS Hillery'. The ship was last seen wallowing in deep water after striking a obstacle in the China Sea.

We need a one day primary system. Or a week long (max) regional primary on a rotation.
Does anyone know why Carl Levin HATES New Hampshire so much? His feud with all things NH has been going on for many years now and literally resulted in the DNC committee that in-turn created the 4 state window. It borders on the personal and makes me wonder if there's something going unreported here.
Hillary has pretty much sank herself, with all the criminals she associates with here lately.

A democrat governor taking on the democratic party?  Priceless!

This shows you how much the democratic party has been hijacked by the far left morons.

You guys have all the chances in the world to take down my party.  It will be your morons on the left that will seal your fate!

RH, It's Hillary. Please learn how to spell. Your hatred has struck you dumb.
And our democrap controlled Congress keeps rolling on with rational, balanced, and reasonable legislation guaranteed NOT to protect, defend, and nourish our Nation.  Thank you Harriest Reid and Nancy P-whotevah.
Why? Well, just because!!!

This entrie thing is ridiculous. Because of the mess, I will not be able to cast a vote that matters in my FLA primary. Talk about a lawsuit...

http://political-buzz.com/
Michigan could invade New Hampshire, but after that whipping they took from Appalachian state........
Wouldn't it be interesting if, besides Florida and Michigan, many other states including large ones such as New York and Texas decided to move their primaries ahead of New Hampshire and Iowa? I wonder how sold the DNC would be on denying ALL of those states' delegates the right to vote in the convention? And what would happen if they did.

Anyway, I'm with RH in calling for a national primary--and I'll add to that that those expensive, several-day-long conventions should be scrapped and replaced by brief ceremonies in which each party's nominee accepts nomination, then announces his/her choice of a running mate.
As we know, whoever wins the first primary states has a major lead on the primary decision.  Why should New Hampshire and Iowa be the ones to decide who the primary candidate is?  So we really think that two small agricultural states are representative of the entire nation?  Don't the small population states already have enough of an advantage due to the fact that they have much more representation per capita?
Hillery, Hillary, Hillarity, HillBilly, whatever!
It ain't hatred because hatred takes too much. I would not waste my time hating her. Write it off to pure disgust at the mention of either Clinton. Pure socialist scum.
Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country owes you, for nothing...
I think Jennifer Granholm is a VERY UNPOPULAR govenor.
She has to pull a stunt to get some 'non-negative' publicity (at least non-negative in Michigan)

Follow the rules, Michigan !!
Follow the rules, Florida !!
it's so cute, the baby repubies having a meltdown because a woman will soon be leading this country,,,, not they didn't mind when nancy took over for ronnie.


remember,it's OBAMA with the MOB TIES
They keep this up, and they won't have to hire blackwater for security. No one will be there except the wing nut losers who want to "recreate 68". Hope the networks still show up. Really looking forward to seeing that circus on TV.
Tuck---and Hillary with the Chinese

Sounds like Michigan is leaning to be a red state.

If Hillary is such a strong woman, why does Bill need to be there then?  To keep her from falling down when she steps init?
GC: "Does anyone know why Carl Levin HATES New Hampshire so much? "

It's not just him, it's pretty much everyone.  What did you guys do to p*ss everyone off?
Join the Slave Nation. Vote Democrat in 08!!! Become a "special person" with "special rights" just sign over your self respect.
Obama doesn't have mob ties (Rezko is not a mobster, he is a crappy person alright, but Joey Lombardo and Tony Rezko are not one and the same) and Hillary is not behind the primary push.

All that talk is just stupid!

I think having the state primaries on ONE DAY just like our regular Voting Day would solve a lot of problems.  Starting with the fact that the people of Iowa and the people of New Hampshire get all of their questions answered by the politicians and it is fairly easy to meet whoever might be your new president in those states, while the rest of us just have to guess what they are like.  That sucks.  

Pure socialist scum?  So glad you  are going to give back your Social Security RH.
Well, after all Molly, what is there in Vermont?  Aside from a beautiful view in the fall, Maple Syrup for my pancakes and Howard Dean destroying the Democratic party, not much going on there.
Josh - Why should the big states get to decide everything?  And an FYI - one of the reasons Iowa is the first caucus is because the people who go to caucus (surprise!) actually know the issues, the candidates, etc.  

And as far as "punishing" NH for changing its date - um, yeah...that's a pretty lame argument, for lack of a better word.  NH is moving because other states are moving...and that will probably be the case with Iowa as well, although it appears that we are waiting until the dust settles before we pick another date.  That's a far cry from moving because you are greedy.
Hey,

Other dems notice the same old republicans responding to these dem blogs over and over again?

I guess we would do the same if anyone even cared enough about the republicans to cause any interest.

But, you think they wouldn't have time to bother with these blogs with all of their toe-tapping, child preying, hooker hooking upping, gay hooker hooking upping, gay hooker hooking upping for mething, gay bashing, foreign racial slur learning, ghost attacking, indian robbing and indian giving, slandering, phone line jamming, intelligence report ignoring, and America raping they have to do!

With people like Craig, Vitter, Rove, Libby, Cheney, Haggard (maybe not a politician but with as much power as on), Allen, Abramhoff and everyone connected (hmmm I can remember Ney for sure without having to look him up, Foley and Bush, the Democrats really don't need to worry about winning the general election, just our regular primary jousting.

What is funny to me is that you still think that those are the people who can be trusted to protect you and tell you the truth.  Boy, you must have been born yesterday!
NH is NOT an agricultural state - we're one of the most prosperous and highly educated states per capita. If you mentioned "ethanol" here, most people would ask you to speak English.

If FL, MI and especially NY, CA and TX took over the early stages of the nominating process, the field is automatically narrowed and the richest candidate is guranteed to win. We'd probably have another 20 years of Bushes and Clintons in the White House.

Blame Carl Levin for this mess - he opened the floodgates and once he didn't like the direction the tides were turning, he spat in the DNC's face.

Levin - tell your state it focus on what it's good at: making inferior cars and losing big football games.
Tuck, be careful people who live in glass houses can't through stones.

Obama may know them, but he gave their money back.  Several months ago rezio's friends in Chicago had a fundraiser for Clinton.  She said she was not going to give the money back.  This fundraiser was after the news about rezio came out.
Doesn't anyone realize that both political parties are playing games to prevent you from having real choice. I say vote'em ALL out.
Hillary's campaign has been pushing early primaries. It's less time for the media to continue duping voters with her say nothing fluff.
Even Clinton's Treas. Sec on ABC's This Week said John Edwards has the most substance - and Hillary and Obama need to get some meat.
But why should they propose anything but fluff when the corporate media promotes them BECAUSE of their fluff.

John Edwards will be a great President!


If Hillary is such a strong woman - why did the Clinton's sell their souls to Rupert Murdoch and Fox News?
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0707/Defending_Hillary_from_the_left.html

The corporate media concealing current info about the Clintons - and making up crap about John Edwards - is the only way Hillary could win.
Makes me wonder what the Clintons and Murdoch would be concealing if Hillary were prez.

Rupert Murdoch also bought Tony Blair - but don't look for that in our corporate media.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/57376

Carrie,

The Big States do not get to decide everything.  That's why you, as a small stater, have twice as much representation in congress, and in the electoral college, than I do as a New Yorker.  
Is it really fair to pile the primary selection on top of that?
Besides, my suggestion would be to have a random selection as to who goes first in the primaries each time.  It's only fair.
GC,
Perhaps not in Manchester, but I go to NH on a bi-annual basis, and it seems pretty agricultural to me.
Be that as it may, my point still stands.  It is completely unfair that the same states get to pick our nominees each year.
Imagine if New York and California were first?  How would you feel then?
Sorry to actually stick to the topic of why not punish N Hampshire also?  

New Hampshire hasn't actually moved to protect its first place in time primary and besides is one of only 4 states that actually had permission to have their primary before 2/5/08. Michigan did not.

That's why! Not a bad red herring, but smells fishy neverthless.
Joe Williams :
'Doesn't anyone realize that both political parties are playing games to prevent you from having real choice. I say vote'em ALL out.'

Joe Williams: EXACTLY !!
THROW THE BUMS OUT !!
DON'T BRING THE BUMS BACK !!

Hillary Clinton, the Omen, Part IV
Pure socialist scum?  So glad you are going to give back your Social Security RH.
GAB, AUstin, TX (Sent Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:14 PM)

My social security?? What security? It's gone. Guess who I blame?

Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the independent “Trust” fund and put it into the General fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democratically controlled House and Senate.

Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities?

A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the “tie-breaking” deciding vote as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the U.S.

Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.

Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?

A: That’s right! Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party. Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65, began to receive Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave these payments to them, even though they never paid a dime into it!
http://www.savessi.com

Yup, "socialist scum", call 'em like I see 'em. You don't have to agree.
I live in a large state and I guess I could argue that as a result of that fact, PA should be one of the first primaries. Hogwash. The beauty of the Iowa and New Hampshire primaries is that the states are small enought to give their voters an opportunity to really meet the candidates and hear what they have to say, and it also gives us an opportunity to watch this interaction and better understand who the candidates are. All we big-staters have to do is pay attention.
Josh - How do you figure that Iowa has twice as much representation in Congress than does NY?  You are aware that the House of Representatives is apportioned by population, right?  Iowa has 5 seats in the House, based on our population of 2,982,085 as of the 2000 census.  NY has 29 seats in the House, based on its population of 19,306,183.  Without doing any math, I'm not sure where you get the idea that we have twice as much representation.  Obviously we do not.  Of the 435 seats, we hold 5 and NY holds 29.  
RH, O;  Do you ever fact check?
Okay, here are a couple of things no one seems to want to think about when it comes to the primary process:

First, the rationale behind the “process” is to nominate a candidate who can win in a general election.  Since election depends on the Electoral College then it is important to vet candidates in both large and small states.  Iowa and New Hampshire have demographics that make them good test samples for the general election and that are the only reason professional politicians fight to keep them first.

Second, the purpose of the process is to act as a winnowing blade, getting the large group or pretenders down to a small group of contenders.  Ideally these two states which are by size and political temperament assessable to politicians of modest means might breathe life into an underdog like Mike Huckabee or Bill Richardson and carve off others with greater resources.  To expose the whole bunch to a large state like Florida or Michigan would seem to exclude all but those who have the most resources from the start.

I question the wisdom of having an accelerated process.  I’m not sure John Kerry in 04 or George Bush in 00 would have been the nominee if the respective parties were not so interested “saving” the candidates for the general election.
the rouge states should settle down.  If they wanted to move their primaries up they should have contacted the dnc last year about doing it.  The bunched up primaries only benefit the front runners, plus the bigger states will only get more tv ads not face to face time with the candidates- too much ground to cover.
I would like to know how many of you in Michigan (I grew up there and left to LIVE in NH) have seen any of the candidates, other than on TV?  We have been to see McCain, Hillary and Edwards and will see Obama this Sunday.  We have never been so involved in the political process and living in NH makes it easy.  Live Free or Die.  Michigan is just too large to effectively campaign in person.  Do you really believe everything you see on a TV commercial!
Hey Windy City Girl. Check out the stats from the last DOJ report on crime. Using your lame azz liberal logic one could say democrats commit the majority of murders in the US. Put down that broad brush you're trying to paint others with.
Mark - I hear that, and it is the same way in Iowa.  There is rarely a day that goes by that one of the candidates isn't here.  We meet them, we question them, and we get a real feel for who they are and what they want to do as president.  And that feel does not come courtesy of expensive TV ads.    
Carrie, you said:
>How do you figure that Iowa has twice as much representation in Congress than does NY? <

Iowa, as a state, does not have twice as much representation as New York.  However, Iowans, as individuals, do.

You forgot your two senators in your math.
Using your own figures, plus senators...  Rounding off:

3 million divided by 7 = 1 per approx. 400,000
20 million divided by 31 = 1 per approx. 650,000

So, maybe in Iowa's case, 2 to 1 was a bit of an overestimation, but your individual voting power is definitely much more than ours.

And the smaller the state gets, the more voting power per indiviual it has, so:

New Hampshire: 1.3 million divided by 4 = 1 per 325,000

Which is just about exacly twice as much representation, per person, as New York.

These figures hold true for the Electoral College also, as the EC numbers are based on both House and Senate numbers.
Since we have been to the events - it is interesting that Edwards and McCain took questions from the crowd - Hillary did not!  As a matter of fact, she promised that before she was sworn in, she would "travel the world" to better our standing in the world (didn't she criticize Obama for the same statement) and she also "borrowed" another key platform from Edwards.  She seems to take things said by others and make them her own.  But she could not be challenged on her statements because she did not give the opportunity.    She has not earned my vote.
>Iowa and New Hampshire have demographics that make them good test samples<

I disagree with that.  There are no real major urban areas in either state.  If they threw in, say Pennsylvania or Louisiana, then it might make sense.
>If they wanted to move their primaries up they should have contacted the dnc last year about doing it.<

They DID contact the DNC last year.  The DNC refused them.
Josh,

The reason every state has 2 Senators is so that every state would have equal representation in Congress, no matter the population. It was by design, per the Connecticut Compromise. Representation in the House is based on population, but when it comes down to votes, New York has 29 and Iowa has 5. That doesn't really provide for completely equal representation. In the Senate, every state has 2. That is where the equality comes in.
CitizenJ,

I know why it was instituted, but that was 250 years ago, when the country was a mainly rural nation and the differences in population weren't so dramatic.

On the Republican side, look at Hunter, who just won the straw poll in Texas, but it's probable that he'll never make it there, if he loses a few small states first.
Josh - The reasons stand true today as much as they did then.  If there was not a Senate with equal representation, small states would get rolled over by larger ones.  Hardly a fair system, if you ask me.  But I don't expect you to understand that, being from a big state yourself.  

jerry/corpus christi texas: Well, after all Molly, what is there in Vermont?  Aside from a beautiful view in the fall, Maple Syrup for my pancakes and Howard Dean destroying the Democratic party, not much going on there.


Colder then a witches mammary gland around here too.

>Iowa and New Hampshire have demographics that make them good test samples<


FACT!!  Most people in the US are pig farmers and suck syrup out of the trees.

Colder then a witches mammary gland around here too.

Molly, Hillary Clinton should feel right at home then.
Monte - I don't know any pig farmers.  I do know a lot of judges, attorneys, local politicians, professors, students (graduate and undergraduate), secretaries, health care professionals, bank executives, truck drivers, custodians, factory workers, fast food workers, and various other people.  They all live and work in Iowa.  Funny, sounds kind of like a pretty representative sample if you ask me.  


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