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Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



MI Dems: Why not punish NH, too?

Posted: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:43 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: ,

From NBC's Chuck Todd and Mark Murray
Per the AP, Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm (D) today signed legislation into law moving up her state's primary to January 15, even though Michigan Democrats now face the prospect of losing all of their delegates to the Democratic National Convention by violating DNC rules.

And on the same day that Granholm signed this into law, Michigan Democrats Carl Levin and Debbie Dingell have drafted a letter -- obtained by First Read -- asking the Democratic National Committee why it's ready to penalize states like Michigan and Florida for moving up, but not New Hampshire?

"Michigan Democrats, while disappointed our state was not selected as one of the four 'pre-window' states [IA, NV, NH, SC], announced they would abide by the DNC calendar, unless New Hampshire or another state decided to ignore the rule establishing that sequence and that calendar," Levin and Dingell say in the letter. "It didn’t take New Hampshire long to say it would violate the calendar. New Hampshire’s Secretary of State, with the support of the state’s Democratic and Republican chairmen, indicated on August 9 that he was going to hold the NH primary before January 19, 2008. This announcement was made at a joint public ceremony and in partnership with South Carolina Republicans who had announced that they would hold their GOP primary on January 19."

More: "We object to your continued silence and acquiescence in the face of New Hampshire’s stated intent to blatantly violate the DNC rules and sequence... Selective enforcement of our rule undermines the progress achieved -- to open the process potentially for all states."

*** Update *** We now have a copy of the final letter, which has a few slight changes from the draft quoted above.

Governor Howard Dean, M.D.
Chairman, Democratic National Committee   
Democratic Party Headquarters
430 South Capitol St., SE
Washington, DC  20004

Dear Governor Dean,

 America has many strengths.  Two of its greatest are our strong democratic traditions, and the rich diversity of our people.  We Democrats take pride in the fact that, of the two major parties, we best represent this diversity.
 
 It is therefore hard to understand how one of our most important democratic processes -- the nomination of our candidates for the presidency -- has been unduly dominated by two states, neither of which is particularly reflective of this diversity.

 New Hampshire and Iowa have had a hugely disproportionate impact on our presidential nominating process, with more access to candidates and visits from candidates than probably all the other states combined during the primary and caucus season.  Other states, including Michigan, have issues critically important to them.  These states would like candidates seeking their support to understand and address these issues, and urged the DNC to make the process more democratic and thereby more reflective of our diversity.

 The DNC approached this issue cautiously and with due diligence.  A Commission representing diverse party constituents was appointed to make recommendations.  The Commission then held a series of comprehensive public hearings.  Ultimately, the Commission recommended a modest change in the traditional schedule, which New Hampshire opposed. It recommended that two caucuses be held, then two primaries, and then the “window” for the rest of the states would open.

 On August 19, 2006, the Democratic National Committee (DNC) set the dates for the selection of delegates to the 2008 Democratic nominating convention as follows:

· at Iowa caucuses held no earlier than January 14, 2008;
· at Nevada caucuses held no earlier than January 19;
· at a New Hampshire primary held no earlier than January 22; and
· at a South Carolina primary held no earlier than January 29.

The rest of the states could then hold their caucuses or primaries to select their delegates after the opening of the “window” on February 5, 2008.

Michigan Democrats, while disappointed our state was not selected as one of the four “pre-window” states, announced we would abide by the DNC calendar, unless New Hampshire or another state decided to ignore the rule establishing that sequence and that calendar.

 On August 9, New Hampshire’s Secretary of State, with the support of the state’s Democrats, indicated that he was going to hold the New Hampshire primary before January 19, 2008, a clear violation of the DNC rules.  This announcement was made at a joint public ceremony and in partnership with South Carolina Republicans who had announced that they would hold their GOP primary on January 19.

 One of New Hampshire’s purposes was to push the New Hampshire primary ahead of the Nevada caucus which the DNC’s rule had scheduled for January 19.  New Hampshire’s transparent action reflected its determination to maintain its privileged position of going immediately after Iowa, despite the DNC calendar.

 Those of us who fought hard to loosen the stranglehold of New Hampshire on the process saw you stand by silently.

 But when the Florida legislature changed the date of the Florida primary to a date before the window opened, you promptly determined to punish Florida Democrats by threatening to not seat their delegates if they abided by their legislature’s decision.  You still maintained public silence about the New Hampshire Secretary of State’s decision to violate the DNC rules, a decision, again, which was supported by New Hampshire Democrats.

 In the past, New Hampshire maintained its discriminatory privilege and dominating role because our party would not take them on and because of the gun that New Hampshire holds to candidates’ heads, insisting that they pledge not to campaign in any state that encroaches on their primary.

 Our national party began the process of taking that gun away from the heads of our candidates when we changed the sequence and put New Hampshire third instead of second in the period prior to the opening of the window.  The battle that we fought was over the sequence of the primaries and caucuses.  New Hampshire either pushing ahead of its assigned position or increasing the distance between its primary and the opening of the window for the rest of the states violates the purpose of the rule.

 It was a hard won, albeit partial, victory, allowing our party to better reflect the diversity of America and to begin to inject some fairness in a process for states whose role had been diminished election after election by the dominance of two states.

 Michigan Democrats are determined to fight to maintain that victory.  We object to your continued silence in the face of New Hampshire’s stated intent to violate the DNC rules.  As Chairman of the Democratic Party, you had the obligation to state your intent to apply the rule to New Hampshire Democrats when its Secretary of State announced his intention to move the New Hampshire primary prior to January 19.  Selective enforcement of our rules undermines the progress achieved -- to open the process potentially for all states.

 We have not seen any public statement from the DNC following New Hampshire’s announcement on August 9 that they would move their primary before January 19 in clear violation of the DNC rules.   Your silence in the face of New Hampshire’s action is a stunning contrast to the DNC’s reaction to Florida.

 In the face of New Hampshire’s decision to violate the DNC rules and your silence concerning that decision, and given our strong feelings about the need to reform our nominating process to make it fairer, Michigan’s Democratic leadership decided to elect our delegates on January 15, 2008, the date the Michigan legislature set for the Michigan primary.  (See attached statement.)

 Someone has to take on New Hampshire’s transparent effort to violate the DNC rules and to maintain its privileged position. Hopefully the DNC will, and you will, promptly urge our candidates to stop campaigning in New Hampshire because of the New Hampshire’s expressed intent to violate the DNC rules.

 New Hampshire’s gun remains at our candidates’ heads and they fear the repercussions to their campaigns in New Hampshire if they don’t sign the New Hampshire pledge -- dramatic proof, if any more were needed, of the disproportionate impact of the New Hampshire primary.

 Maybe Florida will join us if we have to take our case for the seating of our delegates to the Democratic convention in Denver.  And maybe Nevada will insist on maintaining the number two position assigned to it.  Maybe one or more of our Democratic candidates will join us.  In any event, there cannot be one set of rules for New Hampshire and one set for every other state.  We are determined that Michigan not be bound by rules that are not effectively enforced against other states.


   Sincerely,

   Carl Levin and Debbie Dingell

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Comments

How DARE the DNC selectively enforce the primary-date setting rules by disenfranchising millions of innocent voters in Florida and Michigan while doing NOTHING about NH?  As a lifelong, loyal, passionate, VOTING Democrat and a Florida voter, I was already outraged at the DNC over this issue before I learned today that New Hampshire violated the rule first and started this whole thing, and the DNC has said nothing!  They are not taking their delegates away!  It already struck me as mightily unfair to penalize and disenfranchise voters for something out of our control that the Republican legislature of Florida did.  But now to find out, oh, by the way, NH violated the primary date rule, too, but the DNC is doing nothing about that?  To me that says one thing and one thing clearly:  The Democratic parties of Florida and Michigan should SUE the DNC for selectively enforcing their rule and for disenfranchising millions of voters.  PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!  Meanwhile, us voters need to turn out en masse and vote ANYWAY, to send a message that we will NOT be disenfranchised and we are a large, powerful, passionate base of voters from two important, huge states.  Get a clue, DNC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S.  Let me be sure to add that I have nothing against NH being first, nor do I advocate going to a national primary.  A national primary would probably end up focusing just on big media markets and issues not of importance to same would be lost in the shuffle.  However, obviously the present primary system needs tweaking, at a minimum, out probably overhauling.  What about some sort of regional primary system?  Anyway, just wanted to add that I have nothing against NH and I don't want to see the DNC strip them of their delegates because they violated the rule (not that that would happen), I was just pointing out that selective enforcement of the rules is unfair and no doubt illegal, so I think that Florida and Michigan should definitely use that point in a lawsuit to get the DNC to reinstate the delegates.  Selective enforcement of the rules won't hold up in court.  Besides, punishing millions of registered voters doesn't do a thing towards fixing the primary system.
Carrie,

Small states pay less taxes then large states and receive more federal funding, all due to their over-representation.

This country was founded on the premise of equal representation in proportion with taxation.

Thus the current system is, by definition, un-American.
Carrie - Monte - I don't know any pig farmers.  I do know a lot of judges, attorneys, local politicians, professors, students (graduate and undergraduate), secretaries, health care professionals, bank executives, truck drivers, custodians, factory workers, fast food workers, and various other people.  They all live and work in Iowa.  


Looks like a lot of white people there too.  96% of them by the looks of things.

Carrie - Funny, sounds kind of like a pretty representative sample if you ask me.  

Sounds more like utopia for the Aryan Nation.

Hey, while we're at it, lets check out the representative sample of New Hampshire.  My, my. 97% white.  

Guess we don't want any of them there my-norities having first crack at selecting the prez.
This is actually quite interesting.  Al Gore's internet shows that Iowa has 3 million people and 15 million pigs.  Figure 1 million people that are doctors, lawyers, etc., i.e., people that support the pig farmers.  That gives you 2 million people to take care of 15 million pigs, or about 7.5 pigs for every pig farmer.

It's not clear what percentage of the pigs are white.
Monte Hall

I don't think your stat.'s on Iowa are correct, although it is over 90% white, but not as high as 96%. If Iowa was as racist as you seem to think, why has Obama drawn larger crowds in the state than any political candidate, or any  sitting President has drawn? It must be all those Illinois college students that come to Iowa to attend our state and private colleges at his rallies. It is true that most of Obama's campaign volunteers are white, and interestingly Clinton has a fair number of African American supporters, but I see that as a sign that Iowans are supporting candidate they like the best, not merely who looks most like them. While the polls in Iowa are meaningless regarding caucus preference, because they start with an inappropriate sample, they are a reflection of name ID among Iowa democrats, and if Iowa was filled with racists Obama would not be polling substantially better in Iowa than he is nationally.

I don't believe anyone has claimed that Iowa is representative of the nation as a whole, whether it be on race or national origin. We actually do mirror the country fairly well on religion. In my home town there is a large Lebanese community, half of which are Islamic, the other half is Orthodox Christian. The oldest mosque west of the Mississippi is in my home town. There is a small town in Iowa (Postville) with a very large European immigrant population, who are Hasidic Jews. (an old packing plant was purchased and turned into a kosher processing plant)The town's signs are in English and in Hebrew. The last good GOP governor of Iowa, Bob Ray, was instrumental in bringing large groups of Cambodian, Laotion (sp)  and Viet Nam refugees to Iowa in the 1970's. As a percent of population I'm sure very few states have a larger Cambodian/Viet Nam population.  Educationally Iowa and Minnesota usually trade off with respect to test scores.

However whether Iowa is heaven (i.e. the line from "Field of Dreams") an ungodly hole or somewhere in between is interesting (actually not really), but it is not relevant. Iowa and NH are traditionally first not because they are mirrors of the country, but because it allows for the possibility that the best candidate, as opposed to the best funded candidate can break through and have a chance at their parties nomination. If you watch the debates on both sides you will see the GOP candidate who has done the best (from a GOP point of view) has been Mike Huckabee. Will he be the nominee, probably not, but the process of having NH, and IA (and now So. Carolina and NV for geographical diversity, and race diversity added this election cycle) gives him the opportunity to break through. If the large states were able to push their way through, or we had regional primaries the only Democratic candidates with any chance would be Clinton, Edwards, and Obama. A candidate who couldn't raise at least 50 million couldn't even attempt to break through, and the country would be lesser as a result. Because the media only gives coverage to their perceived inevitable candidate, the present system is the only way a candidate superior to the candidate with the deepest pockets, or the media's perceived favorite is if the first couple contest are in states that not only will require the candidates to answer questions directly to the voters (as opposed to in debates where they are allowed to BS and not actually respond to the question, and large rally where they give their stump speech but never respond to questions from real people)

What I don't understand is the argument that Iowa and NH decides the race. We go first, most of those in Iowa who attend the caucus (a real pain in the butt time consuming process) don't just go in a support a candidate without a lot of consideration and reflection. Who ever wins Iowa, or comes in a surprising second etc. gets a bump, that's what Iowa does. If they go on to win NH which doesn't always happen (It did in 04 & 00 but didn't in 92 or 88)they will have an even bigger bump, but between the two states we have 11 electoral votes (IA 7 NH 4). The race is not determined after IA and NH, if we determine the race, it is either because voters in subsequent states decide we did a good job measuring up the candidates, the candidates we rejected started to show flaws we knew they had (ie Dean's yell after his 18% low 3rd place showing), or voters in other states don't care to independently evaluate the candidates, and simply go with who ever who Iowa or NH. We don't decide the election, each voter in every other state is free to do their own research (which with the internet and you tube is far easier than in the past when to find out voting records you had to spend hour at the library searching back issues of the congressional quarterly, and never saw candidates speeches unless they were televised), or voters can rely on Iowa and NH. The bottom line is voters in Iowa and NH have taken this responsibility seriously, and I'm sure if Minnesota and West Va, or any other combination of states that would not be cost prohibitive (both due to size, and cost of the media market)were first their citizen's would also take the opportunity to scrutinize the candidates, and see which ones are full of it, crazy (think some on the GOP this year)or acceptable, and whoever won those states would get a bump. And the large states that follow (hopefully in Feb per the calendar!) can decide however they want.
Monte - As I said to some equally ignorant person, race aside, when you look at the 2000 Census and compare Iowa with the US the numbers line up pretty well.  Yes, we are predominantly white as a whole; there are, however, quite a few areas where there are a lot of minorities.  I happen to have spent all but one year of my life in those areas, so I will thank you to keep your innuendos of bigotry to yourself.  
Sara summed it up very nicely.  As has often been said, people who choose to caucus in Iowa don't do so on a whim.  They study the issues, the candidates, the positions, the election as a whole.  They are prepared to make a decision based on the facts and their own personal belief system - not on a 30-second TV ad.  You don't just check off a box and be done with it.  

I grew up on Iowa City, which is home to the University of Iowa.  We did not lack for diversity, whether it be racial, ethnic, religious or whatever other category you can come up with.  I also spent some time in NW Iowa, where there is a considerable chunk of the population from the Pacific island region.  There are pockets that are very homogenous, but there are also many portions of the state that are diverse, albeit probably not as diverse as the big city.
Sara - "I don't think your stat.'s on Iowa are correct, although it is over 90% white, but not as high as 96%. If Iowa was as racist as you seem to think, why has Obama drawn larger crowds in the state than any political candidate, or any  sitting President has drawn?"

The numbers are correct.  96% white.  No one is saying  Iowa is racist.  A comparison was made that a white supremest would be comfortable in such a white state - an attempt at humor which seems to have not connected.

Sara - "I don't believe anyone has claimed that Iowa is representative of the nation as a whole, whether it be on race or national origin."

Carrie did.  The quote is as follows: "Monte - I don't know any pig farmers.  I do know a lot of judges, attorneys, local politicians, professors, students (graduate and undergraduate), secretaries, health care professionals, bank executives, truck drivers, custodians, factory workers, fast food workers, and various other people.  They all live and work in Iowa.  Funny, sounds kind of like a pretty representative sample if you ask me."

In fact, Iowa is not a representative sample.

Sara - "However whether Iowa is heaven (i.e. the line from "Field of Dreams")"
<rest of Chamber of Commerce advertising deleted>

Sara and Carrie, I'm sure you are both proud of your state.  It is a fine state, but does not even come close to representing the country as a whole.  It is nearly all white, and it has little industry.  It does seem to have a sense of entitlement for being the first state to cast ballots for presidential candidates.  It that sense, it's known for setting the tone for who becomes the next President.  If that isn't true, then why all the fuss on being first?  But, all things come to an end, and Iowa is a prime example of an anachronism.  It really is time to move Iowa out of the spotlight for the primaries.
Iowa.  96% white.

Aren't the Democrats always harping about diversity?

Sara, Carrie - got to give you your due.  You two are two of the best "hand-wavers" I've ever had the pleasure to read.  You two could sell refrigerators to Eskimos, if there were any Eskimos in Iowa.
Stu Freiking - That was incredibly funny.

By the way, did anyone notice that the people defending the status quo are all from Iowa or New Hampshire?

Everyone else seems to see the complete unfairness of these two states always getting to choose the nominee.

On the other hand, if I move 100,000 new yorkers and californians to Iowa, it would change the face of the next election...

Has anyone looked at the last few censuses and noticed how fast the population of Iowa has expanded in the last decade or so?
I can understand the Democratic Party -- my party --
saying: For XYZ considerations, OK, states, this is the date we start having primaries.  BUT to say that
state NH and IA have an inalienable right to start first -- what?  Does that make sense?  Is there something else afoot here?   Hm.  perhpaps, a little paranoia on my part.  Both Fl and MI are states for
wonderful Hill.  Hmm.  Who runs the Democratic National Committee?  Who casts the vote?  Jerry/Kalamazoo, Michigan, a Dem.
my part
I think to be fair all primarys, should be held on the same day, the same as final election is held in one day.  That way everyone would have a chance to see,hear and be heard.


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