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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Tape-delayed debate analysis

Posted: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:12 AM by Chuck Todd

From NBC’s Chuck Todd
I had to watch on TiVo tonight... I started watching the debate live around 10pm and then stopped myself and watched from the beginning on tape delay. The last two debates on ABC were both taped delayed for those of us in D.C., so I’m getting used to filing late these days. BTW, what did we ever do before TiVO, but I digress.

There were three clear winners tonight: Giuliani, Huckabee and Thompson. And there was one big loser tonight: Romney.

Let’s start with the winners: Thompson came out a winner within the first five minutes thanks to the moderator’s opening question about the candidate-to-be’s decision to go on Jay Leno instead of showing up for this debate. The fact that every candidate (including Giuliani, Romney, Huckabee and even McCain) took potshots (a few of which were even a bit cheap) reinforced the idea that the entire Republican field views Thompson as a major candidate, a major threat and one of the frontrunners. The Thompson folks could not have asked for a better setup.

As for the two winners of the debate who actually participated, Giuliani’s performance was particularly strong, perhaps his best debate to date. He’s clearly comfortable being the frontrunner; he absorbs the attacks from opponents without looking as if that opponent matters. His strongest answers were in defense of NOT signing the no-tax pledge and on guns. Judging by how Giuliani treated his opponents on stage, one gets the sense the only candidate Giuliani fears is Thompson since he’s the only candidate Rudy truly engaged.

Huckabee doing well at a debate is about as common as the sun rising in the east. In particular, the exchange with Ron Paul where Huckabee got to defend McCain, defend the surge and also call Iraq a mistake was, dare I say, a mix of Reagan and Clinton. He was just smooth and showed himself as someone who is a good conservative Republican who could be a very electable Republican nominee.

The big loser tonight (of the top tier candidates) was Romney. He certainly didn’t have any friends among the debate questioners and the diner patrons and that kept Romney on the defensive all night. (Will his campaign question how much they’ve been sucking up to Fox, btw?) In all seriousness, Romney’s got to figure out how to turn all these attacks into a positive; Wednesday night was not a great night for the candidate purported to be ahead in the early states.

As for the rest of the field, McCain was a bit uneven. At times, he was funny and loose; at other times, he was almost OVERLY serious and a bit tight. That uneven mix kept me from calling him one of my winners. Brownback seems less and less relevant (why did he stay in after his poor Ames Straw poll showing?); Tancredo seemed almost a non-factor; Hunter is very good at playing the Patriot card but what part of the party does Hunter represent that the frontrunners aren’t representing?; Ron Paul was as angry as he’s been; At one point, I was simply wondering why he just didn’t scream, “Hey kids, GET OFF MY LAWN!”

The next post has my tape-delayed as-I-was-watching thoughts:

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Comments

As an moderate conservative, Ron Paul appeals to me because he is against the war, which I believe is quite unconstitutional, and is also for Civil liberties (Even the democrat-controlled congress gave bush more spying powers) and cutting out all the wasteful and inefficient government programs.
And as for Ron Paul "shouting". I don't blame him. I'd be shouting too if I was there facing them. The way our civil liberties are disappearing is horrifying!
I don't want a National ID card! What's next, a computer chip? Oh wait, they already have that.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6237364/
Mike Huckabee was more a winner than Giuliani.  Giuliani's responses were within his element and backed by his role as mayor.  Huckabee extended himself beyond his governorship and addressed issues as a president.  His exchange with Congressman Paul showed he understands what "honor" means, recognizes what it means for the U.S. to be a republic, and can hold his own while complementing a competitor (Senator McCain) and never disrespecting his debate adversary (Congressman Paul).  His post-debate interview with Hannity and Combs demonstrates he can talk about domestic issues as well as foreign, and his video-camera "sparring" with Cameron shows him for what he is - a genuine guy just like the rest of us.  He just happens to be a genuine guy who can also lead this country in the next eight years!

Governor Romney was indeed the loser.  His answers were canned and prepared, and when he had the chance to demonstrate true compassion and personally apologize to a soldier's father for his earlier remarks about his sons' "service," he balked.  He couldn't bring himself to say he was wrong.
Congressman Paul's view is naive in my opinion.  Those from the Islamic world who are actively attacking us will do so until we are destroyed, not until we are out of the Middle East.  If we were to remove our military from all the areas where we are currently stationed, wicked and evil men and forces will fill the vacuum we leave.  His desire to trade equitably would be ruined by our enemies owning all that we vacate, and they will not "forgive and forget" because we "went home." Sadly, Congressman Paul's approach to saving soldiers' lives now will cost more in the long run.
I believe Ron Paul & John McCain answered the tough questions and stuck to their principles.  Rudy & Romney ducked the hard questions, and would only give scripted answers.  Tancredo spoke from the heart, doing much better than his previous performances. Fred Thompson was the big loser of the night.

Ron Paul definitely has room to improve as a speaker, but his positions on the issues are difficult to refute.  His response when posed the Iran hypothetical was perfect.
IF NBC THE LAST PLACE NETWORK WAS FAIR, AND NOT "SUCKING UP" TO HILLARY, PERHAPS THE GOP WOULD BE ON YOUR RAG OF A NETWORK..GET A CLUE NBC, OR STAY IN LAST PLACE....
Doesn't Paul want to abolish the CIA and IRS?
Shameful that Dr. Paul doesn't even have a health care plan - while the working poor and middle class with NO health care - pay HIS health care costs.
I saw it differently, and I am a Giuliani supporter.  I honestly saw it as his worst performance since the first debate.  Even before Frank Luntz did his informal focus group bit on FOX I felt the same thing as the comments that group had.  Rudy sounded like a one-trick pony, "as Mayor of New York", "as Mayor of New York", as Mayor of New York".

He will need to expand on that if he hopes to make his case to the public over the course of the next five months and then another nine months or he will wear out his welcome.  Thing is, he's got it and has displayed it before, but he went back to that well too many times this debate.

The most useful part of the debate, but also most frustrating was the way the moderator staged the candidate responses to Ron Paul's isolationist, defeatist remarks.  None of the responses evoked the feelings of Republican viewers like Giuliani's reply in one of the earlier debates.  Good news has been coming out of Iraq in recent weeks, more good news then had been out there in previous debates.  Yet, most of the replies to Paul were timid, apologetic, and while Huckabee's "honor" remarks received the praise of commentators afterwards, they still were fairly week.  By the time that the question got to Giuliani it had morphed and was no longer a spirited, engaging exchange.

It was useful, in that it seems clear that only Giuliani has the rhetoric and credibility that can go toe-to-toe with the Democrats and mainstream media onslaught of a general election focused on Iraq.  Weak, apologetic supporters of an unpopular war will have zero success at re-engaging the American public to see it through.  That is the same exact tone President Bush has tried to use for several years now - unsuccessfully.

Republicans thirst for an articulate defender of the decision to go into Iraq who will take on the anti-war machine.  This debate shows that no other candidate can do that as effectively as Giuliani.  I actually think that Huckabee's response was so weak it even took him out of contention for Vice-President.  No way he can stand up to the Democratic VP nominee in a debate and win by saying "we made a mistake, but we've got to honor the sacrifices we've already made by seeing it through."  Republicans hunger for, have been desperate for a leader who will fight, really fight the defeatist anti-war movement.

Overall, Rudy's performance was sub-par.  But he was questioned on things that will not be major issues during a general election.  That is where his strength lies, and the weakness of the rest of the Republican field was on display tonight.
What a joke. Everyone knows Ron Paul totally DOMINATED that debate. It wasn't even close, just look at your own poll numbers. Look at the text poll they had on Fox.

Ron Paul is going to be the next President.
Chuck writes "Ron Paul was as angry as he’s been; At one point, I was simply wondering why he just didn’t scream, “Hey kids, GET OFF MY LAWN!”

What a stupid comment.  Can't you write anything more intelligent
than that about Ron Paul's defense of his principles tonight?
Ron Paul had every right to be shouting, the moderators made no attempt to hide their disapproval of his politics and on multiple occasions deliberately misrepresented his positions and misinterpreted his statements.  The Spin Room interview after the debate was also very telling, with Hannity reinventing history to paint Ron Paul in a bad light.  Fortunately Ron Paul was more than capable of defending himself against the blatant bias displayed by the pundits.  This was a definite win for Ron Paul, it is becoming steadily more obvious that he actually understands the complexity of the issues facing this nation.
Dr. Paul has righteous anger over what is going on in this country as do millions of others; I'm mad as hell too. Being firm in responding to Mr. Wallace's snarky and very disrespectful "marching orders from Al Qaeda" shot was in order. Chuck Todd, I'm very disappointed in the disrespect you have shown Dr. Paul as well. This man seems to care more about your own freedoms than you do. He was the most principled man on that stage and I liked that he got fired up when challenged that way. If only more Americans would do the same maybe the current administration would not have done/are doing/will do as much damage as they did/are doing/will have done. Kudos to Dr. Paul. Shame on Chris Wallace and Chuck Todd.
Ron Paul won because he is the only one telling the truth to the "party of family values". In our family, telling the truth is a value.
Thank god for Ron Paul.  He is the only Republican telling the truth in these debates.  Iraq is a mess and we need to just get out.  
I am a conservative and lifetime Republican from NC. I am utterly baffled by your analysis of the debate. There is no way any pro war Republican will defeat Hillary or whom ever the Democrats choose. Ron Paul's message resonates with me loud and clear. The war is a travesty and a fraud and our troops should come home now, not later. Dr. Paul seems to me to be the only candidate who wants to stop this insanity and truly restore the Republic and our Liberty. All the rest are corporate hacks and have wandered very far off the  conservative reservation. Paul would beat Hillary, but these other guys do not stand a chance in the next election.
Ron Paul is easily the best candidate running for either party.  Giuliani is the elitests' choice.  
You've got to be kidding me!  Rudy did well and Romney did poorly?  What debate were you watching because it seemed to me that Romney of all candidates anwered the questions with clarity, epecially the tough ones.  Huckabee did well also but Rudy?
Ron Paul with his anti-war position and libertarian views could very well WIN the New Hampshire primary and knock Mitt Romney out of the race.
I can't beleive how caught up in "the spin" the author of this piece is.  Saying that Huckabee's defending the surge and calling Iraq a mistake all in one statement was his best moment is a sad comment about American politics.  Aren't honesty and rationality important virtues anymore?
I am yet undecided, but Ron Paul seems to be the only candidate who has a firm platform and stands for something, rather than just trying to play on voters' emotions.
Ron Paul clearly won the debate. The crowd was overwhelmingly for him, and I am sure he was not able to pack the crowd, that was the American people applauding in the audience.  Also, on another tv channel, he overwhelming won in their poll, however, they interviewed all the other candidates after the debate, and they tried to downplay his win by showing a graph that emphasized a momentary dip in his popularity.  This looks somewhat suspicious to me, because as of 1:48am, he is still overwhelmingly ahead in their poll.
While Huckabee winning debates may be common, tonight's win was particularly important, because more eyes were on him than usual following the Ames straw poll. Solid debate performances only matter if people notice, and when more folks are paying attention to you (and they are after Ames), more folks will notice - and in the press, cover - your debate wins.

Now if only the Dems could get an Ames straw poll event so the same thing could happen to Biden and his debate wins...
Did you not see the overwhelming landslide of popular support for Ron Paul winning the debate in the official Fox News poll?  His vote nearly doubled any other candidate.  Please be fair and balanced in your reporting!
The comment from Chuck Todd re: Ron Paul is disappointing.  He dismisses Rep. Paul's political stances in tonight's debate (and apparently, the applause with which they were received - not to mention the results of preliminary polls putting him in the lead - Hannity & Colmes Fox News, MSNBC online poll).   I perceived a different candidate in Rep. Paul than Mr. Todd, a presidential candidate who is refreshingly passionate about constitutional law and has a congressional record that proves his words pay more than lip service.  Although his positions may appear extreme when expressed on stage with the seven other candidates, they speak to me (and I expect a significant number of other Americans).  

Admittedly, I am new to the presidential race and am just beginning to understand the distinctions between the candidates' platforms.  However, in the case of our involvement in Iraq, it is my understanding that Rep. Paul stood in the minority, opposing the resolution that would allow the executive branch to declare war without the consent of Congress.  And as the apparent flimsiness of our intelligence (that sought to warrant the invasion) comes to light daily, it appears Rep Paul's stance was well-grounded, not to mention politically responsible.  I feel that our administration failed us in providing a comprehensive, inclusive debate that fully involved and ultimately sought the reasoned (not coerced) consent of the Congress.  Rep. Paul is rightfully concerned, and he is echoing the concerns of many of us Americans.  

Although I may not agree with or understand the rationale behind all his views, he is worthy of more than a dismissive footnote in Mr. Todd's analysis.  His campaign is gaining momentum for a reason: people are listening.  Is Chuck Todd?
Who in the world is this Ron Paul?  Haven't been paying much attention to the field of Republican candidates, but finally starting to look at them.  Sure a few of his ideas appear out there, but overall he's got the some great ideas.  The media can't back bench him forever.
Ron Paul dominated.  Ideas and principles, plus the truth will win every time.

I just watched the video and Dr. Paul clearly had the most support in the room.

There is nothing better than the sweet smell of a REVOLUTION.
You are way right about Thompson, sir. The rest realize he is the man they need to beat. After all, he ranks constantly as either first or second in nearly every poll out there... and he wasn't even officially IN the thing until tonight!

Romney looked horrible, too. He is finding his flip-flopping is making him less and less a reliable candidate. He is unable to logically defend his multiple positions on every side of an issue.

Rudy was smooth and on message. And his responses had an inescapable logic and the advantage of being believable.

Huckabee is always a bright star. I hope if he doesn't rise, he is a VP candidate at the very least.

As to McCain... toast. The rest... irrelevant. Worse with Paul, he is a circus act gone wild.

But, so far the top guys are Rudy, Thompson and Huckabee, and in that order. I favor Thompson, myself.
It's good to know the Ron Paul fans are blogging when Guilliani fans are sleeping comfortably.  Come on!  9/11 was a result of our bases in the middle east?  Ron Paul groupie's need to listen to what this crack is saying, but often they can't hear his thoughts cause they are too emotionally untied to the war - perhaps their clapping has their ears plugged.  
Hey, Chuck Todd, why did Ron Paul win the text-message voting poll AGAIN(!) and Huckabee score miserably? Sorry, Chuck, I'm not buying your Frank Luntz/GOP spin on the debate.

And frankly, you're being very disingenuous if you think that Rudy did well last night. Rudy FINALLY got some tough questions about his statements on Illegal Immigration while he was NYC Mayor. Rudy literally threw out the Welcome Mat for Illegals.

Seriously, Chuck, wouldn't you rather be an independent-thinking journalist instead of being a GOP shill?
I have searched the net and found 7 different polls regarding this debate. Ever single one showed Ron Paul as clear winner, in many cases taking 50% of the vote.

So why does Chuck Todd say "There were three clear winners tonight: Giuliani, Huckabee and Thompson."?

Sorry Chuck, McCain has the "get off my lawn" role all to himself.  Paul gets thousands of young voters flocking to his rallies, while McCain calls them little jerks; it's a no contest.
You asked which wing Dunc Hunter supports-well he and Paul both represent protectionists, who are scarce in the party but a few still exist (the old Buchanan wing) And between Dunc and Paul, the diffrence of course is foreign policy/the war, so I guess Dunc represents the protectionist foreign policy hawks.
I think the big loser was Giuliani - No matter what questions he got he had the same one answer - In New York I lowered crime, blah blah, blah.  - Is that all he has???  His one claim to fame - Would someone call him on this.
I cleary agree Thompson was the ( absent) winner and will continue to ride this wave all the way to the Presidency. I think McCain did exceptionally well, and came in second. He was direct, consistant, and concise. Guiliani was impressive and I agree, as well, Rudy & Fred are the ultimate ones to watch. Great debate!
The more I hear Ron Paul the more I think he'll be my choice. Look, the fact is that all of the other Republicans are more loyal to their party than they are to the American people. This applies to Democrats as well. Do we want someone in office who's more loyal to their party and special interest groups than the American people? Huckabee gave a great response, if he were a contestant in a beauty contest, saying how we need a unified America in times of war. I agree but that's not reality and Ron Paul knows that.

As much as people complain about the government, you'd figure they would want someone in the executive who would shake things up, stick to his principles and follow the Constitution.
Ron Paul won the debate by an incredible margin according to the 42000+ people who responded to the MSNBC online poll: 71% polled responded he showed the most leadership qualities and 69% responded he was the most convincing candidate.  No other candidate got even 10% of the vote in these categories!
You're always dissing Romney, Chuck. Are you just against Mormons, or what?
An interesting question posed by Michele F., IN.

What peoples civil liberties have been affected by changes that the government has made with things like the Patriot Act?  On a personal level, what has changed since 9/11 that causes you to think that your civil liberties have been diminished?

From my point of view, I fly a moderate amount on business.  The lines at the airports for security, and  the search levels of each person are much more detailed then they were 6 years ago.  The increase in security has caused delays at airports.

As for a national ID card, who exactly is proposing that one exist?  We have enough IDs for anyone to track us anytime they really want.  SSNs, bank account numbers, telephone numbers, e-mail ID and computer IPs are just several ways to track people. Is a national ID card even necessary to help track people?

Thank you for anyone that wishes to chime in.
The debate was fair, The answer were can, And they were not allowed enough time to really know what they stand for.Mittt Romney was not allowed to answer his opponent. Mike Huckabee needed more time to discuss his stand on changing the tax code.Rudy Giuliani answer were the same on stage and off stage with the reporter,word for word
Chuck,                                                  You can't be serious,Giuliani winner your funny even though they limited his time Ron Paul WON!
In a telephone poll last night, the viewers of the debate selected Ron Paul with 33% as the winner of the debate. However, you neither the network broadcasting the debate choose to express this nor make light of Paul's various applause during the telecasts. Why does someone who is grass roots, speaks his mind, wins over voters, being overshadowed by guys who are maintstream and so flawed, as shown in last night's debate.
Yeah, but why does Ron Paul keep winning these debates even when people at Fox News and yourselves are clearly biased against him? Even your analysis is intellectually dishonest in that you marginalize him and don't give him a fair shake.  
Do you really think Giuliani, McCainiac or Cheap Imitation Reagan are any good? All we will get with them is more of the same. Shame on you!!
Huckabee says Iraq was a mistake, then says we have to stay to preserve our honor...hmmm, when you've made a mistake, the honorable thing to do is acknowledge the mistake and change it. Doggedly sticking to the mistake (staying the course) is not fixing anything. In this case it wasn't REALLY a mistake because we see from Cheney's remarks back in the first gulf war that he full well understood what a disaster it would be to occupy Iraq. The only Repub that makes sense is Ron Paul, and the stubborn fools don't want to hear him. Fred is still just a non player, can't take him seriously.
Ron Paul...DANGEROUS!  The winners in my opinion were Huckabee & Romney.  Sure Romney was on the defensive and that was because he is the front runner and those attacks established that.  I believe that stole some of Giuliani's thunder and front runner status.  It is hard for me to see Giuliani gaining the republican nomination.  Besides I believe he needs to run on more than what he did in New York City.  I was especially impressed with Mike Huckabee, his boldness, confidence, demeanor, convicitons, positions and he is very "presidential".  I just believe it is to late for McCain to rebound regardless of how well some believe he did last night.  He does not have the voter appeal and his immigration positions of the past is hurting him.
McCain "uneven?"  IMHO, McCain sailed through all waters, choppy and smooth.  He showed a sense of humor and the kind of confidence that one can only attain from decades of experience with the U.S. military and his twenty years in the Senate.  McCain should win New Hampshire.
No Republican is advocating a National ID for American citizens. The ID proposed is for NONcitizens.
I agree with this analysis the most. Giuliani performed like a competent frontrunner. Huckabee did well too, though sometimes his homespun remedies for international affairs starts to wear on me. McCain had his best night in a long time, but, also, seemed a bit uncomfortable at times (and trying to remember his lines). Romney had a tough night. I don't think he bombed, though. I don't like when he pretends to be stronger on issues (like immigration) than he really was. Giuliani diffused him quite effectively.
Chuck,
I typically agree with your analysis of campaign strategy, but I'm afraid I have to disagree on your performance review.
McCain came out strong and dignified on his defense of the surge strategy. His unquestioned patriotism was buoyed by remarks from Guiliani and Huckabee, who once again turned in a solid, natural performance.
I think Thompson made a major mistake choosing Hollywood over New Hampshire. If I was a NH Republican, I'd be offended.
Clear to me: Ron Paul won the debate by miles.  He stood his ground, blew up the myths of the neocon spin machine, and challenges his party to return to its roots and do better.  The GOP will be lost until it listens to voices like his.
A well given perspective on the neocon agenda Mike. Sadly I and most of the country do not agree.


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