12 to 18 months.....2-3 years....5-10 years...NEVER! When do you wake up and see that more BLUNDERS don't fix the original BLUNDER. Cheney knew what would result from occupying Iraq. Anyone who still supports this ULTRA corrupt administration is either too ignorant to see what they've done or is complicit in their crimes against humanity. They have shamed America for a generation.

If the time that we have given this dunce in chief has actually produced good results in say 5 years, should we not be out of Iraq by now?  This nucklehead does not know what resluts are good or bad, he is a bad choice himself and can not tell.  If the mantra of fight them there was factual, then why in the heck are the bad guys not attacking us now since our borders are pourous and our military and military equipment is tied up in Iraq leaving us with very little here to use to respond to situations (Hurrican Katrina).  This is not hard to deduce if you are willing to do a little detective work instead of listening to talking points to try and scare people and try to prove that things are good when they really are not.

It is not about more training as a US Marine or Army recruit can be trained and ready to go in a matter of months.  IT is about "where does the loyalty lie" if the iraqs are loyal to a small tribe then they will not fight unless it is for their tribe, it has been 4-5 YEARS OF TRAINING FOR THE IRAQS AND THEY ARE STILL NOT READY, THEY WILL NEVER BE READY.  SO SAYING THAT THE IRAQS JUST NEED A LITTLE MORE TIME IS LIKE SAYING  A COCAINE ADDICT JUST NEEDS ONE MORE FIX.  So bring the troops home and let the iraqs deal with iraqs problems.

presidents and politicians come at night
fly away at break of day
soldiers, citizens have no respite
they alone know the real fight

what is real
what is an illusion

The Congressional REport that gives such bad grades to the Iraqi so-called army and even worse grades to what passes as the Iraqi police should be touted and paraded by Senate Dems before the Petraeus lie-perjury fest.  This and other reports we've seen are the best reason WHY Dems SHOULD NOT compromise---they shoudl instead buy air time and say "do you repubs really WANT to support a mess like this any longer?  Really and truly?"  It was compromise that led to their all-too-frequent cave-ins in the past.  Let's use those reports to hold the Republicans' feet to the fire of public opinion.

drip,drip,drip,drip,drip,drip,driP,drIP,dRIP,DRIP!DRIP!

01-Aug-2007 - 06-Sep-2007  
     Iraqi Civilians-1809 give or take 10 or 20.


05-Sep-2007 | US: 4 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Salah Ad Din Province   IED
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Salah Ad Din Province   IED
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad         hostile fire
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad         hostile fire


04-Sep-2007 | US: 4 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
Specialist Rodney J. Johnson Baghdad     IED attack
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad             IED attack
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad             IED attack
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad             IED attack


02-Sep-2007 1 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad             IED attack



01-Sep-2007 1 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
Specialist Christopher G. Patton   Baghdad Non-hostile

What a bunch of morons. After five years of trying to train a bunch of men to become soldiers and policemen. We are still unable to make the statement that we have trained a force of men to handle those duties to a level where they can be trusted to function by themselves. By most acceptable standards those results would be unacceptable, but our administration leads by example. We arm our enemy, we cloth them, we feed them, we pay them and we don't require any measurable results either positive or negetive. As an agressor nation, we suck.

"Iraq's military will not be able to take internal security over until 12-18 months......." Interesting, just in time for the new democratic president to take over, and the fox spin machine to start blaming the democrats for losing the war. Typical response from the Repuks with accepting no responsibilities for their quamire, stupidity, arrogance, incompetence, lies and projecting blame on others for their mess.

And yea as we walk through the valley of the shadow of death..Bush is still destroying. I fear his evil.

presidents and politicans fly in at night
and leave at dawn's first light
soldiers and citizens are there all day
and see the truth behind the fray

what is real
which is an illusion
which

juan: 'bout time you figured it out.

Iraq's army cannot yet meaningfully contribute to denying terrorists safe haven...in their own country.  How many years have we been training them?  I'm not being overly critical of Iraqis or anything, but are they slow learners?  Seems to me we fought and won the Revolutionary War in less time than it is taking the Iraq army to decide if it wants to fight the terrorists at all.

I know, I know...it's very dangerous and that has made it hard to recruit people.  Cry me a river.  Our soldiers are over there riskign their lives for the Iraqi people.  If Americans are willing to risk their lives for the Iraqi people, the Iraqi people better damn well be willing to risk it too.  It's THEIR country, after all.  

Bush recently said he would not "bail out"  the recent mortgage "speculaters" when their homes go into foreclosure, sympathetic guy that he is.  Perhaps the American people should no longer "bail out" the war in Iraq with our lives and treasure after Bush "speculated" on WMD's !!!  

for close to a year i have been stating my policy and slogan for "exchange and extract our troops from iraq" to no avail on this website or any demo candidate i've contacted. i assailed the lack and quality of training of iraq troops and why should a us enlistee who was 14 when this crap started should die when iraqi's weren't training at equal pace or not willing to fight. my position has been set a cieling of 300,000 to 350,000 for combined us/iraqi forces, far in excess of any original estimate by any general. with an estimated 250,000 iraqi troops/police and 170,000 us troops that's 420,000. extract 70,000 to 120,000 now and exchange the remaining at a 1 to 1 ratio for each iraqi clearing basic training. set quotas for enlistment and training on a schedule and extract ours on that schedule. if they don't enlist or fight not our problem. to protect our troops maximize advisory role to replace us troops and reduce geo obligation to defensible fortresses minimizing our exposure and protecting withdrawal. at the onset of this quagmire admin stated that they were going to maximize training of iraqi's to defend self, got lost somewhere. lets mount a campaign for "exchange and extract our troops from iraq" a sound policy and outsources defense of iraq to iraqi's, outsourcing of us jobs is something bush is god at. just get me any royalty for my slogan since it will help me and my 5 kids in bush's economy that's killing my budget, go figure a texan in the white house and gas prices soar! for you demo candidates if this developes into a grassroot movement you all had a shot at it and ignored me, same to dnc.

Does any one have the figures for the number of iraqs who have died while under US occupation as compared to the same time frame under saddam ie. saddams last 5 years as all the war supporters say we had to stop saddam from killing iraqs?  I would like to see the comparison cause if more iraqs are dead under US occupation than under a comparable period under saddam then something is wrong.  Also there are several million iraqs have fled iraq for other counties and there are several million displaced iraqs in iraq, so how is US occupation helping iraq?

juan [[Typical response from the Repuks with accepting no responsibilities for their quamire, stupidity, arrogance, incompetence, lies and projecting blame on others for their mess.]]

jtb [[juan: 'bout time you figured it out.]]

Looks like Juan figured it out a long time before jtb did.

The beauty of all this is how the Republican candidates are all so eager to go to war with Iraq! I cannot believe that we still have people in this country who support these morons !!

IMPEACHMENT..........IMPEACHMENT.......IMPEACHMENT!!!
12-18 Months!!....They have to be kidding.  Bush/Cheney need their asses kicked for this war that is getting all of these people killed. Iraq will never be safe enough for the American troops to leave.
So what are we supposed to do, let this happen, get more of our sons, daughters, fathers,mothers,husbands, & wives killed becaues these asses had no idea of what they were getting these troops into?
I say its is time we went to Washington D.C and let the know first hand what we really think of the Bush/Cheney administration.
IMPEACHMENT..........IMPEACHMENT.......IMPEACHMENT!!!
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME, We can`t just sit by and let this S%&*#% happen any longer......Head`em Up, Move`em Out!!!

Houston: no, I just gave our military the benefit of the doubt a little longer than most.

If you like iraq, what til bush attacks iran to divert your attention.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa--Iraqi behavior is very predictable. They are waiting for us to leave, as they know we will.  As they know we must. We are a foreign invader and throughout history no foreign invader can maintain the cost in treasure or national moral to stay engaged indefinitely. George Washington knew this; Ho Chi Minh and Vo Nguyen Giap knew this. They won their conflicts without the unconditional defeat of their invaders. They bled their invaders in the field until the financial burden at home and the burden of unpopularity resulted in the inevitable. The foreigners get on their ships or their c130s and they go home.
Knowing this it might be foolish for an Iraqi to pick our side. We all know what happens to collaborators when occupations end and the protectors leave.
It is laughable and irritating to hear people blame the Iraqis for what has been done to their "country" by this Neo-con controlled, dunder headed, Ivy League imbecile that the American people in their wisdom have seen fit to elect twice! to office.
Our soldiers are risking their lives for Iraqi freedom?
No. They are risking and losing their lives and limbs to achieve the goal of a permanent presence in the Middle East to protect our national interest. (Oil) They have succeeded in that goal at what Neo con theory will tell you is an acceptable cost...yearly cost...indefinitely.
Check out the new embassy and the permanent military facilities that are even now under construction. We aren't going anywhere soon. We aren't coming home until we get in their faces and tell them we are coming home. That goes for Democrats as well as Republicans. They all work for the same corporations.

Karlos--weeks ago, when I asked for opinions on HOW to end the war with honor, your's was one suggestion that sounded feasible. So many words saying the US must leave, so many saying the US must NOT leave, yet so few offering a sensible resolution. Perhaps others remembers your posts and will consider your words.

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