Democratic retreat on Iraq?

Posted: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:29 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Congress, Democrats, Security

From NBC's Ken Strickland and Mike Viqueira
It's clear now that Democratic leaders on both sides of the Capitol are moving towards dropping their insistence on a end date deadline for completing troop withdrawal from Iraq.

Senate leaders are likely to move a defense measure on the week of the 17th that essentially calls for a withdrawal to begin later this year, but drops language that would require completion by April 30, 2008. "We are not backing off anything," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told reporters today, while adding in the next breath that "we need 60 votes" -- a threshold that they have been repeatedly unable to meet this year on war votes. "There is nothing off the table on Iraq," he said.

Meanwhile, Speaker Pelosi is signaling that she, too, will allow votes on a similar measure in the House by the end of the month, as well as a measure that would require the Bush Administration to come forward with a redeployment plan within 60 days, according to a House leadership source.

It wasn't supposed to work out this way. Throughout the spring Democrats had talked of how they were hammering away at Republican resistance on deadline legislation, speaking of the "arc" that votes had progressively taken towards the Democratic position. September was to be a watershed moment for congressional action on the war, with the expectation that Republicans were going to start bucking the White House. The strategy was to change Republican votes, not to change the underlying legislation.

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Comments

Its Bushs war, always has been, always will be.

bb (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:37 PM)

BUNCH OF WIMPS!!!!

Gail, Dallas,Tx. (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:42 PM)

If you can't change the votes to get everything you want, sometimes you have to settle for getting some of what you want. That's a part of life, just as it is a part of politics. I wish the Dems had a bigger margin and were more cohesive on this issue, but that's just not the reality we face. Until they do have a bigger margin or more votes supporting their legislation, they have to compromise and make concessions if they want to get anything done.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:46 PM)

And happens when the bill gets to the Presidents' desk and he veto's it? Are we to believe that they might actually vote to cut the funding? Yeah right. I think the Democrats would do themselves good by getting new leadership. Pelosi and Reid apparently don't have either back bones or guts.

O'Fearghaill (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:05 PM)

Why get anything done. Congress is held in such low esteem why worry. Send no bills for any votes, HOLD BACK ALL FUNDING. The power of the purse is with the House, use it. Spend the last gasp of the shrubs term to IMPEACH!

Impeach Bush and Cheney (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:17 PM)

And note, America did not want to give them a bigger margin. They did not and do not have a "mandate from the people", that they wish for. The reality is finally meeting the anti-Bush psyco-babble. Any talk the democrats make towards compromise and bi-partisanship is thwarted by thier putting Nancy Pelosi in any power position. She is as devisive as they get.

RH Oregon (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:19 PM)

Whaaaaat? Lugar, Warner, Specter, won't vote with the Dems...what a shock. I say they should NOT pass a spending bill without a troop reduction...just say NO. They crapped out and voted to allow the surge (kind of like the vote to authorize the war). They should have know that once Bush got the surge troops into Iraq, they would never get them out again. The time for compromise, the time for wishy-washy, is over. They'll win the debate with the American people, if they just stand their ground. Come on Dems...get some backbone.

Al, KS (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:20 PM)

The winning strategy for the DEMs is easy: PAY-GO! That means that all additional Iraq Spending MUST BE PAID FOR BY ENDING GWB's tax cuts for the top tax bracket. This is a WINNING POLICY because it can unite all DEMs and divide all GOPs. It would take Gen Petraeus out of the picture. He would be getting everything he asks for. They wouldn't be able to hide behind him anymore.

Jeff Warren, Farmington Hills(Detroit), Michigan (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:25 PM)

What a bunch of wimps, and they work for the people? I wonder who are these people? The decider is nothing but a dictator and the politicians are his wimps.

Carmen -Colorado (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:25 PM)

I'd agree to a long-term deployment if the perps of this war were identified and punished, and not Scooter Libby or Ollie North "punished." Stripped of government pensions and any "Medals of Freedom" any skank president might have given them.

dem (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:26 PM)

This "We Need 60 Votes" bullpuckie is driving me insane! Show some backbone! Take the defeat if it happens but show us that you are with us!

Jackie, Los Angeles, CA (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:31 PM)

Shifting a few thousand troops out of the current 160,000 home is not forcing the issue. The issue is not the size of the troops but the mission. It may be that the least messy solution is to partition Iraq between Sunni, Shiite, and Kurd portions and let them duke it out.

Gordon Johndroe (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:33 PM)

In other words King George can hold his position and veto anything Congress presents to him, and they will give him anything he wants, to compromise and make concessions if they want to get anything done. So Congress should knuckle under and not hold the same hard line on funding and troop withdrawal, right or wrong, support the President no matter what the majority of the American people want. Our elected officials are truly going to make this tragedy in Iraq last indefinitely and drag it out for years. Democrat and Republican they are all guilty of feeding and promoting this idiotic mess.

Paw Paw, NC (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:34 PM)

To possibly explain the D's retreat on Iraq and other issues: do you really think the warrantless evesdropping and spying plus other actions to deconstitutionalize the USA was truly directed at, caused by and intended for terrorists? Please! The Congress and the coutrs are the target. They stand in the way of a Permanent Republician Majority (aka Right-Wing Christian Facist Aristocracy). Terrorists are not the threat the Bushies fear. The Constitution is. The Constitution is being shreaded and UBL is still loose. Which have they gone after with more vigor and venom?

James J Breitfeller, Richfield Minnesota (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:52 PM)

Thanks Carrie, for injecting some calm into this thread before it spins into screeching. But before I engage in thoughful discussion, I have this to say to the Democrats: WUSSES! There, now let's talk compromise.

Ashley, Colorado (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:58 PM)

President Bush called both the Senate Majority Leader and the Speaker of the House recently. Conversations where kind of one sided, and went like this:

Harry! Sit. Good boy.

Nancy! Roll over. Play dead. Good girl.

Carl Roove, Chevy Chase MD (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:59 PM)

Well said, Carrie, and, quite frankly, if we'd had a bit more rational and intelligent compromising going on over the years, perhaps Congress wouldn't be quite the ideological, backstabbing snakepit that it has become. Oh well, one can always hope, I suppose...

Gerry, Anchorage, Alaska (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:04 PM)

I wish people would wake up to what's going on here. The Democrats do not want this war to end; they want it to still be going on by the time the '08 elections come around so they can be in control of the 'war on terror' and enjoy all the perks that come with being in the driver's seat. Regardless of whether or not they had the votes the Democrats would at least try if they actually cared about stopping the war.

Ben, Chicago IL (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:06 PM)

Without the 60 votes necesary in The Senate to break a fillibuster, or a 2/3 majority in BOTH houses to over-ride a Presidential veto, The Democrats can't get those timelines anacted as law.
All the more reason to give them a bigger majority in the general election next year.
The republiCANTS have done nothing but obstruct the will of The American People ever since January, when the new congress took over.
If we vote them out, they won't be able to do that next time!

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:09 PM)

this could be problematic in Nov '08 for the dems. they can still campaign on the "obstructionist repubs", but in many people's eyes, including mine, this is a cop-out on perceived promises in the mid-term elections. However, bush remains the biggest divider, not pelosi. After all, bush has been dividing the people for almost 7 years; Pelosi, close to 9 months.

Mark Y; Westlake Village, CA (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:34 PM)

Jeff Warren:
'The winning strategy for the DEMs is easy: PAY-GO! That means that all additional Iraq Spending MUST BE PAID FOR BY ENDING GWB's tax cuts for the top tax bracket.'

Jeff, I'll go for that !!
What's with the Democratics rolling over and playing dead ??
Put an end to tax cuts in the funding, put union organizing in the funding, put a higher minimum wage increase and che CHIPS (sp?) health care into the War funding.
If Boy George vetos the bill, then screw him !!
Don;t pass any funding !!!
Democrats !! Get off your kneew !!

Sierra, SF (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:38 PM)

So, Carrie ... just exactly what is the "some of what they want" the 'Rats are getting for caving in once again on Iraq? You know -- what's the tit-for-tat, in the real-world, real-politik terms you're demanding, and what are they "getting done" as a result of that tit-for-tat? (HINT: Nothing.)

That's not "compromise and concession".

It's appeasement.

While our fighting men and women put their lives on the line every day in this farce, Democratic "Champions of the People" refuse to put so much as one percentage point in one poll on the line for what they say they claim to believe is the right course of action for this nation.

Cowards or complicitors, take your pick -- ain't no third alternative on no horizon nowhere.

Rick Lapin, Albuquerque, NM (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:57 PM)

Impeach Bush and Cheney - Why get anything done. Congress is held in such low esteem why worry. Send no bills for any votes, HOLD BACK ALL FUNDING. The power of the purse is with the House, use it. Spend the last gasp of the shrubs term to IMPEACH!

Shooting for negative numbers on the ratings for congress Impeach?

It's kind of funny reading through the posts regarding this article. Why bother with trying to pass a bill on a time line? Impeach is very correct on this one. Just don't pass a funding bill. There's your timeline.

Democrats are such whimps. They talk tough, but when it comes time to put-up or shut-up, they choose the latter.

Happy with your majorities Democrats? Excited about voting for these people again? Increasing your numbers wouldn't help either. You already got several Republicans on your side already like Hagal, Specter and a few others.

Trying to get Democrats rounded up is like trying to herd cats.

Peter Edgard, Texas (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 6:02 PM)

No deal with the Republicans!
Make Coleman,Collins,Sununu and the rest continue to vote to back Bush's Folly.If the Democrats enter into any kind of deal with the Republicans,they will get hammered by Bush,and the media.They will get the worst of all worlds:supporters will be extremely angry,and the Republicans will call them weak and afraid of Bush.And,for what?To enact something that says,"Please,Mr Bush,please think about the possibility of bringing a few of our troops home sometime in the future."

Ed Fire (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 7:15 PM)

I love this. You guys were sold a bill of goods by the Democrats, and you bought it, hook, line, sinker. The Dems lie to you as much as they lie to the rest of us.

The reason they won't cut off funding? They know that it will kill them for several election cycles, and they aren't that stupid. Unlike the people who keep voting for them.

John Doe, Seattle, Wash (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:24 PM)

Democrats promised to END THE WAR and IMPEACH BUSH. Instead Democrats INCREASED TROOP LEVELS and SUPPORT ALL BUSH'S requests.

William, New York City (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:24 PM)

Why would anyone expect a group in Congress too frightened to stand up to al Qaeda in Iraq to display "courage" in pushing through antiwar legislation. Isn't that the very thing they most obviously lack?

R Lange, Centre County, PA (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:27 PM)

So let the barstool pilot veto until he is blue in the face! Show the American people who voted you into office that you are actually listening to them!

We didn't vote you into office to be a bunch of weak-kneed, yellow-bellied appeasers - there are enough of those in Washington already!

Utahreb, Veyo, UT (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:55 PM)

The only thing Dems care about is political power.They don't want to solve any problems they just want issues to run on in the next election.They don't really care about the troops they just see them as a convient way to get votes.They sicken me.

rochester,ny (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:02 PM)

The Dems in Congress have had the power to pull the troops out all along. It is very simple. Don't pass any bills authorizing funds for the war effort.

But they won't do that, because in 2008 the Repubs will be sure to remind the American people why the most technologically advanced nation in the world surrendered to a pack of barbarians.

The Dems want to stay in office more than they want to surrender. So we get half-measures, like these stupid bills wherein they try to overstep the authority of Congress, by trying to tell the Executive Branch how to run the war. Bush would be right to veto any such bill, were it to actually reach his desk.

Fund the war, or don't. Those are the only options Congress has. That's the only way for Congress to decide when the troops come home.

John Doe, Chicago, IL (Sent Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:47 PM)

The Democratic party is useless

Rick, Germany (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 3:44 AM)

Saturday, September 1, 2007
Religion Briefs Coalition of nuns calls for impeaching Bush and Cheney

A progressive group of U.S. nuns has called on Congress to impeach President Bush and Vice President Cheney because of their roles in the war in Iraq.

“The National Coalition of American Nuns is impelled by conscience to call you to act promptly to impeach President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney for ... high crimes and misdemeanors,” the group wrote in a letter written on behalf of its board members.

The letter says that impeachment is warranted for their “deceiving the public under the false pretense that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction” and “destroying” the reputation of the United States and the good will of other nations.

“The time for impeachment is now — before the example of George W. Bush’s regime is set in stone,” they wrote. “Future generations will thank you for preserving the freedom of our nation and its relation to the entire human community.”

The coalition was founded in 1969 for individual nuns dedicated to issues of social justice and human rights.

The letter was approved during a mid-August meeting of the board, held in Chicago. During that same meeting, the board unanimously adopted statements opposing all war and affirming peacemaking efforts. “Rather than continuing support of a just-war theory, a more compassionate church would oppose all war and teach peacemaking skills for all levels of government and interpersonal conflict resolution,” the statement reads.

The board also adopted statements pledging to work to “moderate the impact we make on planet Earth,” and supporting nuclear disarmament and relief efforts for the poor in Africa.

David Webb (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 5:55 AM)

It's nice to finally hear Congress is waking up to a reality they were otherwise blinded to. Of course, no one wants a war, but it is REAL, terrorism is happening globally, and we are not excluded from it. Get in the game people. Bush did not start terrorism, and blaming him for defending our country is absurd.

Mike Lee NH (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 6:41 AM)

There's something bad in the water of Minnesota. You need to step back Jim, adjust your tinfoil and drink bottled water. whew what a maroon

Rick554 Strongsville, Ohio (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 6:46 AM)

The democratic congress has decided to let the war go on and continue to criticize Bush and the republicans, in hopes of infuriating more Americans. They choose this instead of forcing bush to deal with it now by defunding the war. This will leave the democrates in a no win situation when the war falls into their hands. They are making a big mistake. However they do not care what the American people want. It is all about getting elected or relected. The dems are a bunch whimps and won't deal with this WAR PIG BUSH MACHINE and his repub butt kissing idiots. They only talked touph on the war to get the votes. Thats all they wanted. We are now without any representation from either party. Just like the war on the middle class goes on and all we do is watch it and talk about it.

Good to be back

Ollie (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 7:43 AM)

And we should never forget the 47 Blue Dog democrats that may as well be republicans on most issues - they typically side with Bush and are consistently pro-war.
The democrats have far from a simple majority in the house practically speaking - the temptation is to blame the spineless dems when in fact a significant number of their members are republicans in disguise....and we keep hearing that the public sentiment is overwhelming for withdrawal but one has to wonder - that is, if their representatives keep voting to stay. For example, the voters who support the Blue Dogs are generally conservative and more than likely vote republican in presidential elections.
I think there's more than meets the eye as regards Congress and their unwillingness to stand firm on using funding as a tool to scale back the war. Again, there is no simple and cohesive democratic majority in Congress.

Terry Columbia, SC (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 8:01 AM)

Ah,principle is everything and the surge is not working, but yet the Democrats are changing their position. I wonder why?

Because they have no principles and they don't want to be caught flat footed, that's why. Lie as they will and unfortunate for them the surge is showing results, so principle gets tossed overboard in the rush to cover themselves.

Of course the real reason for their newfound flexibility can't be mentioned but anybody with an IQ over seventy should be able to figure it out.

I love the calls for impeachment, for among other non-existent reasons, a war that the Democratic Congress continues to fund.
Who needs "high crimes and misdemeanors", you only have to be a Republican.

johnt (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 8:32 AM)

This is and always has been the dims problem...no backbone, its always a gabfest, can't we all just get along, we need a consensus, yack yack yack...

I won't vote for the reprehensible candidate because I'm so disgusted with their genuflecting to the very wrong right but the dims have yet to produce a candidate with courage, they all just want your love

Rick, WS, NC (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 8:55 AM)

Didn't we decide a long time ago that we did not want a king? Especially one who says the Constitution "is just a piece of paper". Why are we not impeaching this adminstration for high crimes against this nation. I think that is more important then impeaching a former President for being untruthful about an affair. Is there not one person in congress who can see that anything they try in useless because the two main problems are the lying, greedy men in our Whitehouse. They are working very hard on an eventual downfall of our country. When are we going to empty the trash?

Anne Barrington RI (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 8:55 AM)

The repubs are the cowards.Its Bushs war, he lied to get in it and hes continuing to lie about everything.Karma is happening to Bush right now and I have a feeling he's going to mess things up even more.Too bad he's dragging us all down with him. He's worse than horrible.

JeanneGA (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 9:02 AM)

Bush and Cheney must go! IMPEACH!!

G (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 9:14 AM)

George, in all his wisdom, should be able to give us the names of the military that are going to be killed or severely injured, in the future, as he continues his selfserving, useless fiasco in Iraq.

Jim Tampa,Fl (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 9:39 AM)

Rick - What is your suggestion? They don't have the votes. Period. They can tie up both houses of Congress with vote after vote after vote on legislation that has no prayer of passing, but what good will that do?

The compromise, of course, is the start of troop withdrawal. It's a step in the right direction, and a hell of a lot better than spending the next year butting heads with nothing at all getting accomplished.

It astounds me how ignorant some people are about the workings of government. I suggest that some of you look up the School House Rock diddy, How a Bill Becomes a Law...it might make things a little more clear.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 9:53 AM)

you guys act like these pepole are magic or somthing . If you have been here any amount of time you should know how politics work. Whith the slim majority that they have what you guys are asking for is like asking them to make fish and bread out of air.It was up to the american people to give them more than a majority of one in the senate if they wanted somthing to get done. without that the best they can do is grand stand . Its how are political system works study up on it.

ki houston (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 10:00 AM)

The dems area a bunch of wusses. Now I don't know what I am going to do in '08.

AnnJ Utica NY (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 10:12 AM)

Bush, a draft dodger in command of an army. the whole world is making fun of you.

mario rome italy (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 10:29 AM)

Waaah Waahhh Wahhhhh Bush is a divider Bush is a divider. Our leaders have smeared and lied and caledl him every name in the book, and he's never stepped down in the gutter with us. He's a divider!!!!! We're in the gutter alone Wahhhh wahhh wahhhh

Dave, Tn (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 10:31 AM)

voting sucks

Stephanie Cata Miami,fl (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 10:36 AM)

The dems are just playing the "popular" card, why is anyone surprised. Lets use some logic here shall we; dem controlled congress has an approval rating LOWER than that of "Bu$h or Bushitler" or whatever the left likes to call him, the dems have continued to talk retreat and surrender (thats what it is), maybe, just maybe, the dems have realized that to get their numbers out of the crapper they might have to, gasp!!, support the military.
Very typical dem behavior.

Chris Phillips, Borger, Texas (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 10:50 AM)

I will believe in that "compromise" of yours when I see it, Carrie; so far your record on achieving even toothless, non-binding resolutions is execrable, to say the least, and yet you present that "first step in bringing the troops home" as a done deal.

And I have a pretty good idea how the US government operates -- particularly the current version, and even more particularly as regards how the current version is working overtime to stall its own citizens on the war in Iraq. Bush wants six more months, and, boy, then we'll show you something -- and y'all want six more months, and then, boy, you're gonna nail that SOB to the wall.

Meanwhile, the gravy train which is the war goes merrily on.

The US government -- as a reflection of our Constitution and the will of our people -- is broken, Carrie, and until the whole sorry downward spiral is brought to a sudden crisis, you can skip the lecture about learning how a bill becomes a law ...

Bills are bought and paid for by the highest bidder, and both 'Pugs and 'Rats are for sale at all times.

You know a tree by the fruit it bears. If the fruit of this Congress this fall is another unconditional approval of more lost GI lives and limbs, another $50 billion pissed into that hole in the sand, and the continuation of a policy which is sinking our international future, you can spout Biden-style pseudo-intellectualizations 'til the cows come home about politics and government being too complicated for poor, ignorant Joe Doaks to understand --

But you'll be out just the same on a wave of collective, instinctive revulsion as folks simply stop listening to what you say and start watching -- and judging -- what you actually do.

A rubber stamp that squawks is still just a rubber stamp, and it will be swept aside just like the previous rubber stamp.

Rick Lapin, Albuquerque, NM (Sent Friday, September 07, 2007 11:44 AM)

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