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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Iraq

Posted: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:19 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

Per NBC’s Mike Viqueira, Petraeus and Crocker will testify before the joint House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs committees at a hearing beginning at 12:30 pm. There will be a total of 107 members (!) combined at this hearing, including GOP presidential candidates Hunter, Paul, and Tancredo. The chairs and ranking members (Democrats Skelton and Lantos and Republicans Hunter and Ros-Lehtinen) will give five-minute opening statements, followed by opening statements from Petraeus and Crocker. Then all the members will be allowed five minutes to question the pair.

The New York Times: “General Petraeus … has informed President Bush that troop cuts may begin in mid-December, with the withdrawal of one of the 20 American combat brigades in Iraq, about 4,000 troops. By August, the American force in Iraq would be down to 15 combat brigades, the force level before Mr. Bush’s troop reinforcement plan. The precise timing of such reductions, which would leave about 130,000 troops in Iraq, could vary, depending on conditions in the country. But the general has also said that it is too soon to present recommendations on reducing American forces below that level because the situation in Iraq is in flux. He has suggested that he wait until March to outline proposals on that question.”

Pegged to the Petraeus report, a New York Times/CBS poll finds that 62% believe the Iraq war was a mistake; 59% say it’s not worth the cost or loss in lives; and nearly two-thirds say the US should reduce its troops there now or withdraw them. That said, “Americans trust military commanders far more than the Bush administration or Congress to bring the war in Iraq to a successful end, and while most favor a withdrawal of American troops beginning next year, they suggested they were open to doing so at a measured pace.” 
 
Also, “33 percent of all Americans, including 40 percent of Republicans and 27 percent of Democrats, say Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.”

The Boston Globe: “Two national polls released yesterday indicated that a majority of Americans believe the increased US troop presence has failed to deliver significant improvements in the war-torn country.”

Petraeus has been getting all of the attention, but the Washington Post profiles the man who will be testifying at his side: Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker. In fact, the Post notes that Crocker’s testimony “may carry far more import for the long-term future of Iraq and the U.S. presence there. With little progress to recount in how the Iraqis have used the political ‘breathing space’ that Bush promised his war strategy would create, Crocker's inevitably more nuanced appeal for time and patience is likely to be the tougher sell.”

Not only will Petraeus and Crocker introduce their war assessment today, but TV viewers in four states will be introduced to one of MoveOn’s anti-war ads, which features children, "training to be soldiers in an 'endless war,'" reports the San Francisco Chronicle. The ad, part of MoveOn.org's $12 million ongoing anti-war campaign is rivaled by a pro-war $15 million TV ad campaign, featuring the burning World Trade Center and produced by former Bush spokesman Ari Fleischer’s group, Freedom’s Watch. 

On Sunday, the New York Times wrote that seven months after Bush’s troop surge began, “Baghdad has experienced modest security gains that have neither reversed the city’s underlying sectarian dynamic nor created a unified and trusted national government… To study the full effects of the troop increase at ground level, reporters for The New York Times repeatedly visited at least 20 neighborhoods in Baghdad and its surrounding belts, interviewing more than 150 residents, in addition to members of sectarian militias, Americans patrolling the city and Iraqi officials. They found that the additional troops had slowed, but far from stopped, Iraq’s still-burning civil war.”

In a Saturday op-ed in the Washington Post, Richardson wrote, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards have suggested that there is little difference among us on Iraq. This is not true: I am the only leading Democratic candidate committed to getting all our troops out and doing so quickly… Let's stop pretending that all Democratic plans are similar. The American people deserve precise answers from anyone who would be commander in chief. How many troops would you leave in Iraq? For how long? To do what, exactly?”

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i personally marvel at how naive the american public is. have we learned nothing from vietnam? the majority of americans are indicating the trust the military for decisions concerning iraq as opposed to congress or president. they act as if the military is independent in thought from the administration. does the name westmoreland ring a bell with you'all? the war in vietnam results were misrepresented to the american public by the military leaders to support the war, remember? how gullible are you people? "exchange and extract our troops from iraq" and outsource the defense of iraq to the iraqi's themselves.
“Americans trust military commanders far more than the Bush administration or Congress to bring the war in Iraq to a successful end,"........

Really???   Why would Americans trust these commanders to do anything other than parrot the wishes of their boss (Geo. W. Bush).

The only hope we have of ever ending this war lies in two areas:  1) The Congress shows some backbone and starts to gradually limit the funding of the war.  2)  We get a new President who makes it his/her mission to get us the hell out of this military mistake that is eating up all our money, time, and resources, and making us weak.
Big lier general is just following his bosses orders. Mr. Crazy man, our president.
Petraeus was told what to say and do before he was ever appointed to this job. His report will reflect exactly what bush/cheney want it to say. Our whimpy congress will cave again.
The fact is most of the generals who stood up for the military and opposed the strategies of Donald Rumsfeld have either been pushed out (retired) or replaced by someone who would.  Those who have retired and been willing to speak paint a far different picture than the ones who are in charge now.  If any can see a repeat of Bill Mahr's Friday show, you should.  He had Colin Powell's former Chief of Staff on speaking about Iraq.
I sure am glad that all the media knows exactly what the general will be saying.  Why should he report to Congress when everybody can read his mind?  

Before everyone goes gaga over the report, I think we better let the General tell us the report first.
Knee deep in the big dust bowl ,captain says march on.Chickenhawk little declared the surge worked pack up yur ole kit bag and smile smile smile
Same old song and dance...Aerosmith

Still Crazy, where have you been?
The general says troop cuts will be done "when the army can no longer take extended tours".Thats not what he said but he may as weel have said it ,we cant keep it up and everyone knows it  .If that isnt a time table what is ,that is why beni sadar told his army to wait 6 months when we will be weakest and then he can start attascking us while we try to depart in the middle of the night because we dont want to make plans for withdrawl we will be forced to repeat history and leave from the rooftop of our embassy
Iraq is another vietnam and we are making the same mistakes----Bush is crazy and is just eating up time to escape from D.C.He doesn't even like the people that keep defending him---he is a user and has done a good job of using all of us.He even smears his own congress so what do you think he says about his admirers on this site?Tee hee hee,smirk
Embrace the Horror. This will continue unabated into the next Presidency. It IS the plan.
"Report: U.S. plans base near Iraq-Iran border"
"New US Embassy in Baghdad: Size of Vatican City"
"14 `enduring bases' set in Iraq"
"Long-term military presence planned"

It's done. We've been had by both parties. The oil is safe. Go shopping. Watch Brittany lip sink. And all it will cost us is about 1000 KIA per year and maybe 7000 or 8000 feet, hands, legs, testicles, and sundry brain function. Cheap at twice the price. Ask any Neocon. Ask Bill Kristol and he'll smile sweetly and agree.

Embrace the horror.

10-Sep-2007 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad Non-hostile


09-Sep-2007 | US: 2 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Kirkuk       Hostile Fire
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad      Hostile Fire


07-Sep-2007     | US: 3 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Al Anbar  Non-hostile
Specialist Thomas L. Hilbert  hostile fire
Specialist Jason J. Hernandez  hostile fire


06-Sep-2007 | US: 5 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
Sergeant Lee C. Wilson Ninawa Province  IED attack
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Al Anbar Province hostile fire
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Al Anbar Province hostile fire
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Al Anbar Province hostile fire
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Al Anbar Province hostile fire


05-Sep-2007 | US: 5 | UK: 1 | Other: 0
UK Sergeant Eddie Collins    
Sergeant 1st Class David A. Cooper Jr.
Corporal William T. Warford III
Private 1st Class Dane R. Balcon
NAME NOT RELEASED YET Baghdad        
Specialist Keith A. Nurnberg


04-Sep-2007 | US: 4 | UK: 0 | Other: 0 Specialist Rodney J. Johnson Baghdad     IED attack
Sergeant Joel L. Murray        Baghdad     IED attack
Specialist David J. Lane Baghdad     IED attack
Private Randol S. Shelton Baghdad     IED attack


02-Sep-2007 1 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
Staff Sergeant Delmar White Baghdad     IED attack


01-Sep-2007 1 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
Specialist Christopher G. Patton   Baghdad Non-hostile
jerry's back!!
How was your vacation?



The "Iraq War" is over.


Everyone in Washington knows it.


We lost.


The rest is a cynical, murderous attempt to save face.


It is all over... except the dying.


Fear karma.




Isn't it nice to know that we may begin withdrawing troops and by late next year we will be down to ONLY 130,000. That's not progress...it's exactly where we were before the surge. Seems like the surge was just a ploy...a way to get more troops into Iraq, so that we could start withdrawing them to show progress. We're using American soldiers as pawns.
Let's see. They lied repeatedly and shamelessly about the reasons for this war. More recently, they said we should wait for the results of this report. Now they're saying we shouldn't listen to the report. Nope, don't trust any of 'em with a handful of air.
Quote: "Also, “33 percent of all Americans, including 40 percent of Republicans and 27 percent of Democrats, say Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.”"

In other news, 1 in 3 Americans are pronounced legally retarded.
Vietnam, vietnam - like parrots. It is not Vietnam. Totally different. Stay tough America, everything will work out fine. Don't piss in your pants, America. Having troops home and wide open Mexican border will not help against another 9/11 . We cannot hide like ostrcihes anymore. Even a donkey understands that.
You unamerican morons make me sick.. when your picking your kids body out of the rubble of some terror attack you will be begging for the govenment to do something like Iraq. This country has lost its backbone.. Get over it, we are in Iraq, its the right thing to do and Iran is next... I refuse to live in a world with extremists running govenments I dont care what the cost is, you dont like it then dont join the military.. We are going to fight all over the world and we are going to win.. Iraq is not lost its won, all that is left is to exterminate the enemy that opposes us. Thank god the people in the 40's did not  have the lack of courage this waste of a generation has, else you would all be on here begging for a withdrawal in Europe esp with 8k men dead on the beaches at normandy, we are only lost because people are weak and they play life like a game, politics is a game, and the latest crop of shit on the dem side is only going to turn our lives into a mess, weak morons all of you
Will someone please ask this General Petraus or at least his Commander In Chief to please explain what it is that they are trying to accomplish. What is the mission, now that there have been no WMDs found, now that Saddam has been hung up on a rope, now that Britain has pulled out of Basra, now that the 9/11 attacks cannot be connected to Iraq as it has never been proven, and now that we the American people believe that Gearge Bush is a lying egomaniac who cannot accept or even acknowledge his biggest mistake in the history of the United States of America? What is the mission? I beleive it should certainly not be to have a war for war's sake.

If they would honestly just come out and state the goal is to continue an unwinnable war with absolutely no end in sight until we have exhausted the very last of our resources and at the cost of uncountable innocent lives, I could actually believe them. Anything else, such as "progress is being made" and "some places in Iraq are safer" along with "the plan needs more time to prove out" are empty comments, not worth the air used to speak them.
“33% of all Americans, . . 40% Republicans. . 27% percent Democrats, say Saddam Hussein .. personally involved in . . Sept. 11, 2001.”
This is an example of how effective brainwashing was in our enlightened country. Persons of authority reiterated Hussein's involvement so often that an amazing number of people still erroneously believe the LIE!
Why does Bush hate our troops?
George Bush Commander & Chief,LEADER,DECIDER,Decided it was worth every arm leg, eye, and son or daughter, mother, father.He will be haunted much like the people who support this war by the ghosts of every soldier who have died fighting another political war where no victory was intended or we would have mobilized every business and drafted the nessacary size army we needed.Not half assed it with too few troops incorrect armour and vehicles.A shame is what it is shame on all of you for going along with such a bad strategy.Meanwhile our true enemy sits and mocks us from somewhere in the hills of afganistan and we cannot locate him all our resources tied up in iraq,good stratagy once again,WHERE ARE YOUR HEROS,BILL KRSYTOL<KRAUTHAMER<RUMMY<POWELL<TOMMY FRANKS<BREMMER>TENENT>ABZID>CASEY>Where are the sons and daughters of the ruling class.Where is your end game,in the hamptons.You have hitched your wagon to a disaster and you are resposible and remembered like we remember the men who led us in VIETNAM>WESYMORELAND>MACNAMARA<KISSENGER>NIXON<JOHNSON>ON AND ON and the dead continue to grow in number so in 30 years we can remember that they died for a trade agreement,SOME STRATAGY.
Why is it the people in the South and Heartland are so gullible. I swear they believed the Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld spin for all these years. Is it the education system, Fox News or their Pastors beating the Right wing drum? One issue mentality, ABORTION, kids being maimed and killed, global warming, health care they do not care. They are all about legislating morality. Worry about your own souls.
same old song and dance. it's breaking the United States of America to please bushes ego. what a shame also that we have leaders that can be bought. such a shame and disgrace.
come on all you big strong men,the big ol chance has come again.there's plenty good money to be made by suppling the army with tools and trade.be the first mother on your block to have your boy come home in a box,and it"S 1-2-3 what are we fighting for,don't ask me I don;t give a damm,next stop is irac and afgan,and it's 5-6-7 open up the pearly gates,oh there aint no time to wonder why.woopeee were all gonna die.
We may not be leaving Iraq right now, but we also can't stay there forever. I'm not seeing any plans being made for an exit strategy, and that worries me. Iraq has to step up, but I fear that they are not getting on the ball because they know we are there to bail them out.
guess what children you ot bullshitted just like us vietnam veterans "oh you're smarter ad sharper than yr wwII troops! look we don't physically hit you!" you've been had;iwas but this is the time to expose pieces of shit like chaneys,rumsfelds,         and bushes of this world.notice i said world because they don't have any allegiance to this country let alone the citizens of the u.s.war/satan is their gods!
WE ARE USING OUR CHILDREN AS PAWNS....but not George and Lauras children of course.
How can we possibly win in Iraq when Bush is more interested in preserving the interest of big business than he is in protecting the American people.Big Oil wants their oil and the working class will die and go into debt so they get their profits.
Sadly, we've been led down this "phased withdrawal path before.  Its a simple ruse, really.  The military takes 4,000 troops who are due to rotate home and transfers them all into one brigade, while the real members of said brigade are transferred out into the field to fill empty slots. VIOLA!!  A whole brigade is withdrawn.  In effect, there is NO decrease.  Its just a shell game at which this lying traiterous administration is so adept.
Who's gonna guard Halliburton's Oil? The Blackwater Army?  Won't that raise the cost of Gas, again? Just curious.
We've bought the Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld, Rice and Bremer propaganda for too long.  Now add two to the list - Petraeus and Crocker.
We've bought the Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld, Rice and Bremer propaganda for too long.  Now add two to the list - Petraeus and Crocker.
Heh, we need a pawn promotion in that case.
Mark Thieme / a more factual statement I have not seen
The "Petraeus Report" is actually written by Bush. His credibility is so lacking that he needs to make it seem as if the generals are actually making the decisions, in order to save face with the 32% of fanatics which believe he had nothing to do with 9/11
I can't believe 33% of Americans believe Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11! Wow, people are so uniformed.
“33 percent of all Americans, including 40 percent of Republicans and 27 percent of Democrats, say Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.”

You fools. Saddam/Iraq had NOTHING to do with 911. Practice intelligent discourse and you would see through this myth. It has only been proven by just about every intelligence agency and nearly every other nation on earth.

Free yourself from capitalism, the root of all wars, and the slavery of all mankind.
Sure, let's hold off on a decision about the troops until March...no, let's hod off until July...Nah, let's hold off until...however long they stall putting an end to this insanity, they can't stall beyone Jan. 20, 2009, if a Dem like Edwards gets electd, because if we get a Dem who isn't a spineless wimp like most in Congress, they'll just go ahead and start pulling our kids (and yours, and your neighbors')the hell out of that open-air lunatic asylum---no stalling then!!
who took the poll??? NYT readers. those readers hate bush and gop. I would love to see the questions. example. do you like war? I love how run a small 1 time story on hsu. Where are you calls for resignations and congressional hearings? where is the outrage? The culture of corruption. you cannot run enough stories on the sorrry ass craig. you are a big bunch of phonies. Do you woner why you circulation is dying?? I hope it goes away
you can stall and stall and stall on doing something to get our kids (yours, mine, our neighbors') out of that open-air luatic asylum, but if a Dem with guts, balls and a spine (someone like, say, Edwards) gets elected, the stalling will stop, and the extricating ourself out of Bush's massive clustfu** will begin Jan 20, 2009.  No stalling then, people!!
The war is lost.I don't know who's training the insurgents, But what ever pool their drawing there fighters from its a different pool than the one the U.S.is drawing from.I keep reading how the Iraqi army is not ready to stand up and fight for their country, One must ask the question. Who is killing our kids then? We have been lied to over and over about this war by the likes of Mr. Bush most of the generals V.P. Cheney the neo-cons and we just don't seem to care.Everyone just hide behind the troops who by the way are the only ones,and their families that's really paying the heavy cost of this failed policy.
I always questioned the decision to go into Iraq. It made no sense that we were looking for bin Laden and taking on Afghanistan. Suddenly, Bush made a 'left turn' and started his obsession with Iraq. To this day, I still don't understand. We're bogged down, we're loosing our 'edge' in the arean of world politics, and we're deeply in debt because of our ENTIRE CONGRESS' decision. THEY'RE ALL GUILTY OF THIS ERROR. Unfortunately, I don't see how we can just pull out. Just for the sake of good manners, we have no choice but to clean up our mess. Thanks, Bush, Hillary, Edwards, Cheney, and all!

“33 percent of all Americans, including 40 percent of Republicans and 27 percent of Democrats, say Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.”

A nation that does not read, that gets it's information primarily from 2 minute TV news clips, from White House press releases, from conservative talking heads and Fox News? is destined to repeat the same disastrous choice for President that was made in 2000 and 2004 -only the suit will change (same bright red tie, though). Do Republicans actually read real newspapers or just listen to Rush, Hannity and O'Really ?  
Yes, it's another Vietnam. The soldiers can win, but won't be allowed to by the lefties and the government. The US will withdraw with its tail between its legs and the killing will increase exponentially.

It happened in Indochina, and will happen in Mesopotamia.
From today's NYT;

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/10/opinion/10precede.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Beyond the Surge

1. General Petraeus, has the surge bought us anything more enduring than fleeting tactical victories?

2. You and Adm. Michael Mullen, the incoming chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have both said the surge will end in April 2008. What options do we have then?

3. If the United States reduces its forces in Iraq over the next 12 to 24 months, is there a way to pursue our strategic goals of no genocide, no safe haven for Al Qaeda, and no regional war? — Nathaniel Fick, a Marine infantry officer in Iraq and Afghanistan and the author of “One Bullet Away.”

1. General Petraeus, why have the White House and State Department failed you by neglecting a diplomatic and economic surge to complement the military one?

2. Based on the counterinsurgency calculus in the new Army manual you helped write, you don’t have sufficient manpower in Iraq, even with the surge. Why has the administration not given you enough troops?

3. Americans are well aware of the shortages of matériel, from rifle scopes to armored Humvees, our troops have suffered from. Why, for example, have you not been given a sufficient number of the effective mine-resistant, ambush-protected vehicles called “MRAPs”?

— Paul D. Eaton, a retired Army major general who was in charge of training the Iraqi military from 2003 to 2004.

Wrong Way to Vote?

1. Ambassador Crocker, in Iraqi elections, voters pick national party lists, not individuals to represent specific district constituencies. Has this system made it harder for Iraqi leaders to achieve legislative progress? If so, can it be changed?

2. What changes in United States law could help you succeed in your work in Iraq?

3. Should the United States create a civilian reserve corps to train, equip and deploy volunteer civilians for civilian reconstruction tasks, just as we do military reservists for military tasks?

— Douglas J. Feith, under secretary of defense for policy from July 2001 to August 2005

1. General Petraeus, with Gen. George Casey, the Army chief of staff, having declared that the current level of American military commitments is “not sustainable,” what are your plans for preserving your recent gains while also achieving security in the rest of Iraq?

2. In an interview with the BBC, you recently observed that “the average counterinsurgency is somewhere around a 9- or a 10-year endeavor.” With the Iraq war now approaching the four-and-a-half year mark, are we halfway to our goal? Or did the nine-year clock begin ticking only with the initiation of the surge?

3. You have described your mission as “buying time for Iraqis to reconcile.” How will we know when reconciliation is occurring? Please explain how American collaboration with Sunni insurgents lends itself to this larger process of reconciliation. — Andrew J. Bacevich, a professor of history and international relations at Boston University.

Keep an Eye on Iran

1. Ambassador Crocker, President Bush and others have made reference to bottom-up conciliation and the tribal uprising against insurgents in Anbar Province. Would Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki and other Iraqi officials have taken any action to work with Sunni tribal leaders without pressure from the United States? Aren’t you getting constant complaints from tribal leaders, and local and provincial Sunni officials, about the lack of central government cooperation and response?

2. What is the level of Iranian influence over the central government and in Shiite-majority areas in the south? Is it growing or weakening? How does Iran affect the size and actions of the various Shiite militias?

3. What Iraqi ministries are now effective and fully functioning in serving the needs of all Iraqis, rather than influenced by various religious and political factions? — Anthony H. Cordesman, a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Bye to the Brits

1. General Petraeus, even if we accept evidence that the “surge” is indeed delivering real tactical results, how great is the value of these when the Iraqi national government and its institutions still seem so ill fitted to exploit them?

2. What do you think might be the consequences for the security situation in Iraq if the United States undertook military action against Iran’s nuclear facilities?

3. How serious are the consequences for allied strategy of the British Army’s withdrawal from Basra? Are the British justified in their assertion that the security situation in the city is now sufficiently stable to allow the Iraqi National Army to manage it? — Max Hastings, British military historian and author of “Warriors: Portraits From the Battlefield.”


Van
We can occupy and we can lie, but the results will bite us in the ass!
the war supporters should be happy...more war, more death, more wounded...the general (the ones bush always listens to)says we need another one two four or ten years more until the iraqis stand up...btw why havent the rep crackheads who said the iraqi's would be ready two years ago been shitcanned? oh thats' right they just wave their little flag and you ignorant buffoons on the right salute and cheer
The Democrates are doing all they can to curb the President from contiuing this war.  Problem is the Republicans keep siding with Bush.  The Senate does not have enought votes to override a veto.  Blame the President and the Republicans for this war.
How much hypocrisy is blatantly evident when the Bush administration and representatives like Senator Lindsey Graham advocate that we must let the generals on the ground fight the War in Iraq, including deciding when and how many troops to bring home?  Who doubts that the generals are literally controlled by what the Commander in Chief wants; who doubts that their presentations have always reflected favorably on what George W. Bush has decided and wants?  That kind of political rhetoric aimed to manipulate public opinion is offensive, as it assumes that we are totally naïve and gullible, it assumes they can say and do whatever they want even to being arrogantly ridiculous.  It would be nice to see some objectivity but Bush and Cheney made it clear right from the start that they neither appreciated nor tolerated independent thinking.  Everything is orchestrated and controlled with the focus being on their private agenda and, as we have seen, ‘you either play ball or else’.  The truth is that the military has been greatly handicapped and pressured all along by what the White House wants to satisfy the White House’s interests – and there is the real problem!


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