ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



First thoughts

Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:16 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Julia Steers
*** A clean bill of health: Clinton’s health-care rollout could not have gone better for the campaign: A national poll underscores Democratic primary voters' confidence in Clinton to pass a health-care plan, and her plan even gets a positive review from a conservative columnist like David Brooks. Perhaps most important for the campaign, as others have pointed out, her plan blurs (for the most part) any differences between the Edwards and Obama plans. Of course, those rivals -- as they did yesterday -- will hark back to the past to differentiate themselves with Clinton on this issue. But, lo and behold, here comes Clinton breaking from the past: On TODAY this morning, Matt Lauer asked her if her health-care plan would have been one that she would have rejected in 1993 when she pushed the issue then. That’s “absolutely the case,” she replied. Today, the campaign begins airing a new TV ad in Iowa and New Hampshire on -- guess what? -- health care, as well as hosting a live webcast on the plan.

VIDEO: Hillary Clinton discusses her health care plan on TODAY.

*** Is the GOP licking its chops? But on a day when her focus was health care, did Clinton make a statement that could come back to haunt her, especially if she's the Democratic nominee? Speaking to the SEIU yesterday, Clinton made a promise to the anti-war crowd that she may or may not be able to keep, NBC’s Lauren Appelbaum reports. "I have voted against funding this war and I will vote against funding this war as long as it takes," she said. Doesn't this invite a Mitch McConnell to do whatever he can to get bills on to the Senate floor that force her (like what happened to John Kerry) to be in the minority on various troop-funding (read: "support the troops") measures? Earlier this year, Clinton -- along with Obama and Dodd -- voted against an Iraq supplemental because it didn’t contain a timetable for withdrawal.

*** Barack backing away? We encourage you to watch yesterday’s entire Brian Williams-Barack Obama interview. A few key takeaways: Obama seems to be tacitly acknowledging that his "turn the page" message is not resonating with Democratic primary voters (note his comment about Bill Clinton's popularity with Dems). Also, don’t miss Obama conceding that a Norman Hsu-like problem is systemic to fundraising -- not to a particular candidate. Finally, an overall observation from the interview as a whole: Obama seemed to take pains not to point out contrast with Clinton. Is he just that uncomfortable with getting down and dirty? And while some independents may see that as a badge of honor, do those candidates win primaries?

*** Minority Report: With GOP Rep. Jim Ramstad yesterday becoming the seventh Republican congressman to announce his retirement -- and with more possibly on the way -- the question no longer seems to be: Will Democrats hold onto control of the House after 2008? Rather, it’s: How big will the Dem majority be? The same is true of the Senate, where four Republicans (including Craig) have announced they will retire, and Democrats have recruited some impressive candidates (Mark Warner, Jeanne Shaheen, and maybe Bob Kerrey). Given this situation, does that produce -- as NBC political analyst Charlie Cook put it earlier this year -- a vicious cycle for Republicans? That a poor political environment produces retirements and poor fundraising and recruitment, which then produces even more retirements and even poorer fundraising and recruitment. Is the goal for congressional Republicans now to keep down the Dem gains as much as possible and shoot for 2010?

*** On the trail: Clinton hosts a “New York Farm Day” event on Capitol Hill; Obama, in DC, unveils his middle-class tax relief plan and then hits small-dollar fundraiser/rally; McCain raises money in DC; Richardson, in Chicago, takes his turn speaking to the Laborers and then fundraises in DC; and Romney campaigns in Florida.

Countdown to LA GOV election: 32 days
Countdown to Election Day 2007: 49 days
Countdown to LA GOV run-off (if necessary): 60 days
Countdown to Iowa: 118 days
Countdown to SC GOP primary: 123 days
Countdown to Tsunami Tuesday: 140 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 413 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 490 days

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Comments

Hillary will kick butt on election day. GooooHill!!
Hillarys digging herself deeper and deeper into a hole, the repugs are just tapeing everything she says and does and its going to be slam, bam thank you ma'am for the presidency. MSNBC is right, they are going to start forcing her hand and she will start making up lie after lie.
Obama/Edwards '08, BTW hope you recover soon Keith from your surgery
dems willown the wh and congress thanks to bush/cheney and various other incompetent and dishonest right wing neo nuts
I saw Chuck Todd this morning and I am putting my view here like he asked.
Your network is typical, actually worse than CNN, in it's fawning over Hillary.
Edwards and Obama put out health care months ago and they were not talked about intensively over it like Hillary is.  
The networks act like Hillary is this brilliant and accomplished politician who is too good to be true.
If they checked the records of Hillary and compared it to Obama they would find Hillary has not done a whole lot while Obama has an impressive record.
You guys give the average voter the impression Hillary is this great and fantastic person who is to be awed.
And you guys are always complaining about everything Obama does and promote this strawman that he is some immature rookie.  Then you act amazed he is behind in the polls.  If you heard what the average voter does from the coverage of this campaign you would not be surprised.
You give the impression that Obama is a rookie when in fact he is more experienced in elected office than Hillary.  He has alot of excellent policy, like the one he came out with yesterday, that is totally ignored and not covered on air.  when it is, it is usually twisted around to make him look a fool like his Terrorism speech.  He is belittled for the sake of the prepackaged storyline.
Hillary, who has not done much in the Senate is allowed to use being first lady as real experience.
She has dragged her feet on health care, lifted most of it from Edwards policy, as is touted all over the networks for being so amazing.  No one did this when the orignal policy was put out by Edwards.
Obama is not going to go on Nightly news and look the fool by trashing Hillary.  it was to talk about his economic plan and the interview mood was not right for simple trashing.  
I do not know why you guys still cannot figure out Obama is not going to act like some typical pol.  He is not going to go on air just to trash an rival.  He is different than the typical pol like say, Romney
Besides, why bother.  If he did your pundits would spin it to death in favor of Hillary and make him seem silly.
This has been the way things are spun and the way it's presented to the average voter:
Edwards is made to seem like a rich, vain and shallow man who is playing at caring about poor people and the problems of the country.
Obama is made to seem like a 30 year old rookie who never held office or did legislation.  His record in the senate and in the state is very impressive.  His policy is usually spun to look silly and he is always being made to look like some weak and over his head rookie.  never mind that you cannot survive Chicago and even Illinois politics being less than savvy, clever and strong.
Hillary is spun to look very strong and leader like and really experienced.  Her real record is very thin, she is known for following others and uses others ideas and peddles it as her own.  the health care plan is largely lifted from Edwards plan.  she is made to seem alot more than she really is.
so, why are the polls like they are.  I suggest you look at some of the coverage your own network does.
It is very slanted and spun.  You give the impression Hillary is alot better than she really is.  She is vastly overrated and overestimated.
Edwards and Obama are spun to look much less than they are (which both are much more substantive and effective, strong and tough, leadership skilled and wonkish than is portrayed).  Both are vastly underrated and underestimated.
Your network is the worst in spinning this storyline.
Many times it seems more of a coronation when you cover Hillary.
She is not portrayed in real light and she is given this free pass.  Obama and Edwards always have complaints on everything they do.
The on air coverage is pathetic and sad.  it is peddled one way and it was decided long before any of them announced and you are determined to spin it this way regardless the reality.
Obama won't get down and dirty because everybody knows Hillary Clinton is the dirtiest player in the game.  She will destroy anybody and everybody to get what she wants.  I'm sure there are a lot of things that Hillary has said that will be coming back to haunt her.  Anybody who thinks Hillary is for America is out of their mind.  Hillary is just for Hillary.
The same people who would want Barack to get down and dirty in the campaign, would be the first to accuse him of betraying his principles if he did.
How do you know the Democrats haven't decided they won't fund the war any further Mark?
Hmmmmm?
Interesting question, eh.....
Also, don’t miss Obama conceding that a Norman Hsu-like problem is systemic to fundraising -- not to a particular candidate.

He will not have to hang her with this ...before its over she will hang herself.

I saw the whole interview and my take away could NOT have been more different.   What I saw was a man with class and style who believes in who he is and what he says.  Will he win...time will tell.

Despite all of the posturing and postioning of hillary by you (Chuck) and the MSM.  There are many of us who follow the campaign closely who will NEVER support her EVER and quietly outside of the MSM we are spreading the word.  When the "rubber hits the road" democrats won't vote for Hillary...they loved Howard Dean too...until time came to vote.

There were many reports who disagreed with her Healthcare plan and her. Where are the reports that show all she has done is take everyone elses plan and call it hers. Where are those links.
hillary and obamas healthcare plans were written by the insurance and pharmasuitcal companies who own them

edwards plan was written for the american citeizen,
edwards does not accept money from the insurance and pharmasuitical companies, hillary and obama do

read each of the candidates healthcare plans for yourself because the media does not want anyone to see the major differences

decide for yourself which candidate has the American citizens best interests at heart
I’d like to take a moment to thank Joe Scarborough and his guests for their attempts this morning to explain why the MSM is spending so much air time on OJ, Britney and Paris. Especially when there are so many important issues going on right before our eyes. I’m finding Joe Scarborough to be fair, smart, humorous and interesting. I saw not too long ago a program on the History Channel about Joe Scarborough’s input when he was a congressman to help a young man bring the story of the Indianapolis to the attention of Congress and the American people.

In that vein, with Ken Burns’ documentary on WWII about to air, I wish Joe would think about having Zbigniew Brezinski, Mica’s father, as a guest in the upcoming days.  To understand WWII and the 20th Century is to understand Poland. No one speaks more eloquently about his country than Mr. Brezinski and I truly believe Joe Scarborough’s viewers would be spellbound as Mica’s father talks about life in Poland during WWII.  I am not Polish, however, Warsaw is by far the most interesting city I have ever traveled to among all the eastern and central European cities I have visited. It is simply heart wrenching to walk around the city and see all the memorials and museums dedicated to brave, brave people, people who had to fight the Germans with little or no help.

It is mind boggling when I think about WWII starting because Germany invaded Poland. And then when the war ended, Poland was unable to obtain their freedom and didn’t for many, many years. It’s quite a story and Mr. Brezinski I believe would be the perfect guest to tell it.

Thank you.
Senator Obama continues to take the lead on issues of importance--foreign policy; the economy; education. He speaks honestly and intelligently on all subjects, and he doesn't wait for someone else to speak first. Thankfully, as was clearly demonstrated at the Harkin Steak Fry on Sunday, Iowans recognize that Obama is an exceptional candidate, and I am confident that the rest of the country will do the same.
Very nice read Dianne.  Good job.  Let's see if others notice the bias you mention.  Everyone at First Read does seen head-over-heels for HRC.
I admire Senator Clinton I intend to vote for her.
BUT I am not convinced any candidate has a grip on health care.
I live in Massachusetts we are #2 in per ca pita spending on health care, OVER 6 thousand dollars.
Even more startling is WASHINGTON D C AT # 1
OVER 8 THOUSAND DOLLARS!
When I listen to the "plans" for change in health care I hear static, I believe the fix is in.
Corporations do not want to pay ANY part of health benefits, it cost them on the bottom line.
Corporations do not want to pay any part of pensions,
they have systematically stiffed people on that!
We bailed them with our tax money.
They are going to make sure we get picked up by Medicare! Yes another Government bailout for Corporate America.
Keep watching and listing folks, the plot thickens.

Oh and Wall Street want your Social Security gone so they can suck us dry with woohoo Mutual Funds!(corporations)
FED'S raising interest rates? More inflation?
J. Merle I think the Dem' are going to surprise a lot of people! Hmmm...I have a gut feeling we are going to surprise some.  I am sick of hearing every single person "in the KNOW" chant the same crap.  
Weiner will you stop bashing Hillary if she picks Obama or Edwards as a running mate or will you throw your support to the republicans for eight more years of war
Obama is the ONLY one who has the ideas and judgment to be President.
He may not have all that bad experience of making mistakes like the other candidates, but he will have lots of time to do that after he gets elected.He makes people so excited that many have to go to the bathroom, and he has the best plan for health care, without a doubt, and no one can deny it. His charisma is shinier than Edwards' hair, prettier than Mitt Romney's wife and more colorful than Hillary's pants suit, and he's Bi-Racial! What more could you want?

He's even been a senator of a state, now he's a real senator and they make great Presidents, which is impossible to deny. He has a guy so smart with him now that nobody can pronounce his name, forget about spell it!
The MSM just doesn't tell you how people can't stop yelling when they see him, or how many people have to go to the bathroom, or about the guy who's name nobody can pronounce, or that he's the only one who can bring us together and he went to AFRICA! What more could you want?
He doesn't even wear a tie a lot of the time! His health care plan is the best and he was against the war before anyone else, go ahead and ask him and he will tell you!
He doesn't need a tie and he's not tied to the special interests or the past! Whatever you think about him, he thought of it first and you are just copying him!
ASK HIM! I dare you.
As usual, MSNBC, specifially Chuck Todd, completely mischaracterizes Senator Obama's statement.  He did NOT SAY ANYTHING that would lead a fair-minded, unbiased journalist to conclude that he's "backing away."  He was merely acknowledging the popularity of Bill Clinton and the Senator Clinton is clearly benefitting from that.  He made it clear that he has an uphill battle, but it's a battle he believe he can and will win because he's better suited to lead this country in a new direction.  As he said, he's up against the most effective political machine of the last 30 years, so he's not dillusional, but he is optimistic that when voters get to know him better and really listen to his message, they will opt for a fresher choice, not just recycling of the Clinton years.  How does MSNBC continue to get away with this hack journalism without an oversight?  
I have been watching David Brooks weekly on the News Hour of PBS. It seems as the years have gone by, Bush and gang have all but turned him into a Democrat. It seems that now, his disagreements with Shields are more and more civil and more of a formality, realizing as he probably does that this weekly spat, much like the case with the McLaughlin Group, would be too boring if they ever started agreeing with each other.
I have noticed  the vicious circle you speak of for several weeks now and it seems possible that during this stage when what went around comes around, you have a situation in which it's likely that many in the Republican congress are becoming sickened by what Bush has put them through. I know that religion comes bundled with software that allows the participant to easily bypass attacks of cognitive dissonance brought on by the hypocrisy inherent in religious belief, but this may not be so true in the case of politics. Unless you have totally surrendered your soul to the party, like many of them seem to have done, you can't just continue to live the lie you must embrace to defend the party that is fated to lie forever in order to exist. It seems that the soul may finally become ulcerated and scream out for relief and sanity.
J. Merle I think the Dem' are going to surprise a lot of people! Hmmm...I have a gut feeling we are going to surprise some.  I am sick of hearing every single person "in the KNOW" chant the same crap.  
Diane - you're correct.  The Clintons sold their souls to Rupert Murdoch and the media is $elling Hillary to us 24/7 - while concealing damaging current info about her.
Mark Penn is Hillary's Karl Rove - her chief strategist and free-trade union buster! Union presidents have warned Hillary about this deceitful relationship - and although they may $ell out - union members know. God does too.
The quality of so the called journalists in these online outlets of MSM is alarmingly poor.

I read and viewed a fantastic interview of Senator Obama by Brian Williams. Brian conducted the interview with utmost professionalism and Obama provided very thoughtful responses. When did he say he is backing away? He was talking about being 2nd in national poll because people are not paying attention yet, the name Clinton is connected with some sweet memories and he is new on national stage. So it will take some time for people to get to know a new politician on national stage and where he stands on issue. He said he is making people comfortable to his candidacy in early states and he believes positive results in these early states will turn things around.

Yes, you are right, he takes a high road and does not promote bickering. He wants to change those rubbish of "liberal propaganda" or "right wing attack" kinda vocabulary from Politics. Online journalists might need them so that people read their low quality caricature to keep them employed. Obama will take the high road. He wants to change the way politics is instead of changing himself to become politician as usual. People and so called pundits also have responsibility to embrace the change in tone instead of pushing him to become dirty. If he does not get the nomination, he does not. It does not mean he was wrong. It means Americans are still not ready and konwledgeable to differentiate between right and wrong, good and bad. And if they don't, the nation will continue to suffer. Obama's life will go on without the presidency. This nation will loose an opportunity from the service of a terrific president.

Please stop this non sense in the name of journalism. PATHETIC to say the least.
Obamamaniacs aside (I fear for these people come February '08 - some will be jumping out windows), Hillary's roll out looks like it could not have gone much better.  

You could tell that even angry am radio freaks like Hannity had to work hard to attack it.  Prior to the roll out they told everyone that it was going to be "socialist" (as if they even know the meaning of that word) and government run.  

Of course the plan allows for private insurers, private providers, and for choice.  

The fearmongers on the right are going to have to work overtime to sell the who are not paying attention that there will "long lines" or "doctors going out of business" or whatever else they will try and peddle.
AMEN Diane!!!! The Media is only concerned with Hillary, and no one else, and it is going to cost us.
Obama/Edwards '08
To "Students at UNF" I feel sorry for you. I really think that you will be voting just simply because you want to say "We have a woman president" versus voting to say that "We have a president that generally cares about and works in the best interest of ALL Americans".
Hillary’s plan would be too financially burdensome for lower-income individuals and families. And by mandating health insurance, it is clear that she didn’t have poor people in mind.
Such a mandate would be too invasive and would restrict personal freedom and choice. If she’s mandating health insurance, she needs to come out and tell us how she intends to enforce it. Because I’m pretty sure that what such a mandate does is eventually fill up our jails with poor black people who cannot afford health insurance. Individuals cannot be forced to purchase insurance until the cost of coverage is significantly reduced.
Diane - Gee, maybe it's because MSNBC, like every other major media outlet and most people who were of age, remembers that the inability to pass health care reform was one of, if not the, biggest failures of the Clinton Administration, and that Hillary was front and center during the efforts to reform.  Ergo, people are understandably curious as to what her health care initiative is going to be, given her infamous past with this issue.  Also, she has created a huge build-up to the unveiling of her plan by holding out for so long and offering teases to the media when asked about it.  This, my dear, is called good campaign strategy.  

Did you miss all the stories yesterday on First Read about the reaction of the other candidates, Democrat and Republicans, to Hillary's plan?  They were not all friendly.  There is plenty of anti-Hillary stuff reported on MSNBC and elsewhere.  The problem is that people have made up their minds that there is this vast mainstream media conspiracy (kinda like that vast right-wing conspiracy, ya know) to get Hillary nominated and elected president.  That's complete crap.  

I see more whining and complaining about the coverage Hillary gets than I do anything else on this blog.  Maybe if people promoted their candidates, instead of spending all of their time  slinging mud at Hillary and whining about how much coverage she gets, people might actually pay more attention to the other candidates.  You complain that she gets all the attention and then what do you do?  You feed it yourselves with your neverending bickering about how Hillary did this a zillion years ago and she said this and she knows this person and...well, you get the idea.  

Yes, Mark Thieme, I'm having one of my rants.  :)
In part, I agree with diane about the fawning over Hillary.  I'm not sure if the MSM's need to say more positive things about the front-runner is coming from the need to give the people more info on the person they think their readers/viewers want or if it comes from the subconscious need of all Americans to back a sure winner.  By doing so, the MSM is making the news (more positives means more support) rather than reporting it.  Sort of like the 'wag-the-dog' syndrome.


I believe this must be true because the MSM supported the Bush Administration fawningly when it came to invading Iraq (remembering Katie Couric's quip, "I think Navy Seals rock") and only a few news outlets have been willing to call into question any of the Constitutional breaches by this Administration.  My advice to the MSM is to quit making the news and quit worrying about offending certain segments of our society and just report the truth; not as you think people see it but tell it like it is.  Otherwise, there is not journalism, just propoganda.
"a vicious cycle for Republicans?"

AKA death spiral
"The same people who would want Barack to get down and dirty in the campaign, would be the first to accuse him of betraying his principles if he did."

and those are the same people that have been doing everything to destroy AMERICA and Bush for their own power.
JERRY-CORPUS CHRISTI

I couldn't agree with you more...The only person Hillary cares about is herself...She is pathetic, and if elected will destroy this country

I'd vote for anyone but her....

Lord help us if she gets in office
$ ONE TRILLION DOLLARS OF YOUR HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS WILL BE SPENT AT A "MINIMUM" TO BE IN IRAQ.SEND A THANK YOU CARD TO YOUR PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH,I'AM SURE HE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU.
Wow, Mark, sorry, but I could not disagree more with your analysis.

1. Clinton's health care plan does not blur with Obama's, and the key reason why is that her plan includes *mandated* universal health care.  The idea of mandating health insurance not only raises eyebrows among those concerned about lower income Americans, but is a big red flag for Republican voters who abhor such an idea; Obama's wise move to distance himself from Edwards and Clinton on their embrace of health insurance mandates, aside from its policy merits, is one more bit of crossover appeal that Obama alone brings to the general election.

2. Clinton, however, is right to keep voting against timelines, because NOT doing so would come back to haunt her; it would be completely pointless and destructive for her, Obama, or Dodd to vote for funding now that they'd already voting against funding.  Doing otherwise would be reminiscient of John Kerry, and that's just plain stupid.

3. Obama, by not being a pitbull in that interview, is showing by his actions that he still DOES think that the turn the page approach will work with Democratic voters; he's just smart enough to acknowledge that there are other counterforces at work here, and honest enough to say it in an interview.  Besides, it's awfully difficult to conclude that a strategy that has raised more money than any other campaign in Presidential hisotry "isn't working on Democratic primary voters" two weeks into September; let's wait and see what the numbers look like when the same amount of people say "haven't heard enough" or "never heard of" about Obama as do about Clinton.
again, amen diane! I have been a big fan of Chris Matthews, but the other day I felt that I had to do something I never do and email him about the slanted coverage that make Rudy and Hillary inevitable candidates. This provides news coverage with the "meatiest" stories and it seems that they are doing their best to ensure that. Obama (particularly) and others do not get praise they deserve for substantive policies and fresh approaches to politics, and the average public is buying what they're being sold by press coverage.
GONZO-GATE,IT JUST WILL NOT GO AWAY,STAY TUNED.
Financial markets are booming yet again.  Way, way up for the day, month, and year.  This translates to more jobs for everyone that wants to work, and a better standard of living for all of us and our families.

Thank you President George Bush!!
I watch the whole American political scene with a lot
of interest, and Hillary bashing seems to be the in
thing. From where I sit she seems to be by far the
most qualified of all the candidates on both sides.
I would think that after George W. Bush just about anyone would be better. The person occupying the White House impacts the lives of not only Americans,
but the entire world. I for one believe that Hillary
Clinton will make a terrific President.
Diane, I'm getting that you are an Obama supporter.  I support Edwards, but you are dead-on 100% correct in your analysis of how the media have shaped this race.  I think the media's thinking is this:  They want a Republican president, but of the Democrats, Hillary is the corporations' best friend of the bunch, and they can "do business" with her.
From the Times online:
From The Sunday Times
September 2, 2007

Pentagon ‘three-day blitz’ plan for Iran\Sarah Baxter, Washington
THE Pentagon has drawn up plans for massive airstrikes against 1,200 targets in Iran, designed to annihilate the Iranians’ military capability in three days, according to a national security expert.

Alexis Debat, director of terrorism and national security at the Nixon Center, said last week that US military planners were not preparing for “pinprick strikes” against Iran’s nuclear facilities. “They’re about taking out the entire Iranian military,” he said.

Apparently, George Bush is preparing for his 'Final Solution' for Iran.
The talking heads on the networks are preparing people for this lunacy.
Losing the war in Iraq is not enough.
Losing the war in Afganistan is not enough.

George Bush is planning his 'Final Solution' for Iran
Will this win the 2008 election for the Republicans ?

George Bush probably figures that this will keep us in Iraq indefinitely, validating his invasion.

Better vote for Obama and Ron Paul !!


Hillary just doesn't get the picture and neither does any other politician. US Citizens don't need insurance, THEY NEED HEALTH CARE!!!!  HELLO!!!!!!
People are forgetting that Hillary was part of one of the most corrupt bribe taking presidencies ever. Mark Rich is an Israeli criminal who owed the IRS millions of dollars and received a pardon by paying the Clintons a few million. And how about the 100K bribe from Archer Daniels Midland resulting in our having to have 10% crummy ethanol in our gas. Ed, Salem WI  
Hillary: "I have voted against funding this war and I will vote against funding this war as long as it takes," she said.

Put up or shut up, Hillary !!
Make sure that Obama, Bidne and Dodd vote against funding the war, too !!
No excuse for funding the war !!
OK people.. be impressed. I am sure that the Cubans were impressed with the Fidel plan, but look at their lives. Great health care if they want you to live.

BTW if all these phonies were really interested in health care they would first resolve the "legal" issue of lawsuit reform. A huge cost of a doctor's and hospital's cost is liability insurance (CYA). THEN..
provide a plan in conjunction with the most powerful labor union(AMA) to substantially increase the number of American grown and educated doctors and nurses. YES you may have "insurance" but if you have no one to do the work of health care you are a gonner. I could give everyone in the world health care yet as you may suspect I have no infrastructure. DUH
Wall Street Journal.

The newspaper reports that a company run by Norman Hsu, who donated nearly $2 million to Democratic candidates since 2004 — including presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Clinton — recently received $40 million from a Madison Avenue investment fund run by Joel Rosenman

Hsu reportedly told Rosenman the funds provided by Source Financing Investors would be used to manufacture apparel in China for top designers such as Gucci and Prada, and would yield a 40 percent profit, according to documents.

The newspaper reported that its analysis of Hsu's campaign finance reform records shows he has links to more than $1.8 million in donations to Democrats since 2004.
He also is credited with raising $850,000 for Clinton's presidential campaign.

Those that walk in muddy Hues will leave many tracks.
About 40,000,000 tracks to find.



Opps, I had a Woodstock moment and misplaced my $40 million.

Dude, where's my joint? I rolled it with that $40 million dollar bill.

Woodstock did not have any fences but now it has a gate. WoodGate it may not go away.....Z  Maybe, maybe not soon enough.
Hillbillary will try to paint the Gate a calming, anger reducing shade of mauve tomorrow. A triple coat of shiny shellack will follow.
To Diane:

Obama is not more experienced in an elected capacity than Hillary Clinton.  Obama has not played in the big leagues...lest we forget that Hillary has been a NY Senator for the last five years...how long has Obama?  She has also been exposed to politics longer than he has as well.  I would rather have a seasoned professional in there to clean up Bush's mess than a rookie at this jucture in time...

You need to get out of the "spun" mode.  MSNBC is not the only network that has its eye on the political ball.  If you feel that Hillary is "overrated," then use your free will and not vote for her.  

I believe the people who complain the loudest about how inept some of the candidates are, or how skewed the coverage is by some networks are generally the ones who really do not look at the political records of each candidate before speaking.  They generally have an axe to grind without looking at the facts.  If we only knew what the future was going to hold, we probably would have Al Gore in office at this time....
If you fools elect Clinton, then you'll get what you deserve.

Ask the people in Arkansas why they love people from New York.

They'll tell you that it's because they finally got those fools out of Arkansas!
The pundits say Obama can't win because he is not playing dirty. At the same time if he begins criticising Clinton they are the ones who say he is undercutting his message of hope.
See where Senator Kerry was giving a speech at UFlorida, and some student that was critical of Kerry for not being far enough to the left was Tasered?

Looks like Kerry is hoping to replace Jerry Springer.  It would be a step (or six) up for the good Senator.
George / obama is most definitely tied to corporate america, you know what lobbyists are george? obama does and he likes they're money also. edwards challenged obama and hillary both to not sell out the american citizen for lobbyists interests, they both decided not to take that challenge unfortunately, obama may be a lot of things, but uncorrupted by lobbyist money ain't one of them, sorry to burst your bubble but edwards is the only one not feeding at the lobbyist trough, although most choose to ignore it  
George: Where to begin?

First, how about with this:  "He may not have all that bad experience of making mistakes like the other candidates, but he will have lots of time to do that after he gets elected."  Do you honestly think the time to be making mistakes is AFTER he becomes president?  We saw how well that worked with Bush and his on-the-job training.  

Also, I don't think having gone to Africa and being bi-racial qualifies one for the presidency.  Hillary has been to Africa - I believe she and Chelsea had a nice little safari there while Bill was president, if memory serves.  It wouldn't surprise me to learn that many of the other candidates have visited Africa at one time or another.  

For that matter, I'm not entirely sure what people having to go to the bathroom has to do with Obama's qualifications for the presidency.  I often feel the need to go to the bathroom and vomit when Bush is on TV but I don't think that's what you mean, George.

In a nutshell, I'm not sure what most of what you said has to do with actually BEING president.  
Hmm, so it looks like Hillary will get the nomination and the staunch democrat that diane is will be voting for Mr. Guliani. Wow, good strategy..real smart!
Like I said Obama doesn't have to do anything the story will continue by itself,  I suspect there are bigger shoes waiting to drop about december or January:

HILL BILL FOOTED BY HSU
VEGAS VICTORY BASH
By LEONARD GREENE
     
September 17, 2007 -- Members of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign staff got a nice payoff last year for their work to get her re-elected - a trip to Las Vegas funded by her fugitive former fund-raiser.
Among the Sin City guests of disgraced former fund-raiser Norman Hsu was Patti Solis Doyle, one of Clinton's most trusted advisers who now runs the senator's presidential campaign.
According to The Los Angeles Times, Hsu - who raised more than $850,000 for Clinton before being jailed last month on charges related to an investment scheme - treated the senator's campaign staff to several days at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas, complete with free show tickets and dinners at posh restaurants.
Doyle was accompanied by two junior staffers and a New York-based fund-raiser, the report said.
In April 2006, Hsu provided a hotel stay in Las Vegas for two other campaign workers.
Doyle also received a coveted and pricey designer handbag from the disgraced moneyman, the newspaper said. But she returned it.
The red-faced Clinton camp insists there was nothing illegal about the trip, according to the article, and stressed that Hsu never received any legislative favors in return for his gener


http://www.nypost.com/seven/09172007/news/nationalnews/hill_bill_footed_by_hsu.ht



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