Iraq: Dem measure defeated

Posted: Thursday, September 20, 2007 8:47 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: Security

The Washington Post: “Senate Republicans yesterday rejected a bipartisan proposal to lengthen the home leaves of U.S. troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, derailing a measure that war opponents viewed as one of the best chances to force President Bush to accelerate a redeployment of forces. The proposal, sponsored by Sens. James Webb (D-Va.) and Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.), failed on a 56 to 44 vote, with 60 votes needed for passage -- a tally that was virtually identical to a previous vote in July.”

All the Dem senators running for president (Biden, Clinton, Dodd, and Obama) voted for the measure; the GOPers (Brownback and McCain) voted against it.

The New York Times: “Supporters of Mr. Bush’s war strategy declared victory, saying they had firmly beaten back legislative efforts to change course. ‘It means that Congress will not intervene in the foreseeable future,’ said Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, the Independent who has voted with the Republicans on war issues. ‘The fact that it didn’t get enough votes says that Congress doesn’t have the votes to stop this strategy of success from going forward.’”

More: “The outcome showed that the strong opposition to the war plan by Democrats and a few Republicans remained insufficient to overcome a powerful Republican minority in the Senate that has succeeded all year in staving off challenges to the war policy.”

NBC’s Mike Viqueira notes that Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is on Capitol Hill this morning with House GOP moderates, in a meeting organized by Minority Whip Roy Blunt. Remember, Viq points out, Republican leaders have been keeping their people in line in war vote after war vote. But another round is coming up, and some GOP moderates are in league with Dem moderates to find a “third way” on Iraq.

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Comments

Sen. Warner is all cheap critism and no action. Here he had a clear chance to really and truly support the troops by actually casting a vote in favor of the Webb amendment...and he did not. I was starting to think that some repubs might actually be finding some small amount of politial courage but I was wrong.

Roy, Charlotte, NC (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 8:59 AM)

the whole point: both parties will cave in to the funding demands. they will do it this fall, next spring, and way into the next administration, which- no matter who is elected or from what party- will continue and expand armed conflict for control of the middle east.

ken minneapolis (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:00 AM)

Just another thing that will bring down the "biggest" Republican defeat in history come November '08.

Rember I told you so...Z (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:06 AM)

Just when you think republicans couldn't get any lower, you find that there is no bottom to their barrel.

WDRussell, East Liverpool, Ohio (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:09 AM)

Willie Geist this morning, something along the lines of: "The Democrats once again were unable to stop the war, the reason they were voted in last year."

Um, the Democrats can end this war when they get more Democrats voted into Congress. Or, when the Republicans stop carrying President Bush's water for him and instead WORK with the Democrats to end this war.

The GOP has no intention of changing course until next summer when the campaigns heat up. Nice huh? In the meantime, more die. Politics as usual in the GOP.

Talk about that Willie.

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:14 AM)

‘The fact that it didn’t get enough votes says that Congress doesn’t have the votes to stop this strategy of success from going forward.’”

Nice of Lieberman to set up the Democrats' platform for the '08 Presidential race and every senate race for the next decade. Republicans and Republicans alone kept Americans in Iraq. Maybe Lieberman is a Democrat after all?

Amy B Portland, ME (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:17 AM)

I'd like to see a comprehensive expose' on the conditions under which Blackhawk "employees" work as compared to a typical enlisted man. I see so many staements on these boards to the effect "libs don't support the troops; are invested in failure in Iraq..." and so on, nothing coud be further from the truth. This "war" based on lies and now carried out without compassion for the kids being asked to fight it is doomed to failure for these very reasons. The neo-cons claim Christianity? Read your Bibles again. Jesus laid out the laws of Karma. Plant bad seeds in rocky soil & you'll get what you deserve.

PJ (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:21 AM)

in case you dont know the Dems have the majority in the house and Sen. Not all Dems are giving comfort and talking points to the enemy.

lets think (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:26 AM)

Joe Lieberman is by no means a democrat, nor is he an independent. He is a republican. Why doesn't he just switch and become a republican anyway. The republicans will need him come 2008 when the democratic majority in congress will become bigger. Shame on you Joe- being a democrat means caring about all US citizens, not just agreeing with the Republican administration when it defies common sense.

Treena (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:28 AM)

Republicans are interested in winning the war in Iraq, not legislating what time our soldiers should be tucked in at night. It's not clear what the Democrats are trying to do. It appears they are trying to negotiate terms for surrender.

Frank Sumter, Omaha Nebraska (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:28 AM)

the repubs once again deny American troops the rest and retraing they need, how is that suporting them? More and more military and families speaking out about the unfairness of the repubs.

mikeeg,abdn,wa (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:32 AM)

How pathetic are we as a nation when approximately 70% of the American public are in favor of ending this quagmire in Irag, and yet, we still can't seem to rein in and stop this imperial administration from wreaking more death and destruction. Do our votes really matter or is it just a means of pacifying the public?

Diane, Grand Blanc, MI (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:37 AM)

Lets think and Frank Sumter, nice to see you're behind the troops. About 7,000 miles behind the troops!

Joe Einloth (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:37 AM)

This is the Republican Party supporting the troops. Lets send them back as often as we can, we don't care that they are exhausted and their families are stressed beyond what any family should have to endure. The talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Those who support the Bush Administration do not send their sons to war, and do not really care what happens to these young men and women. The troops do not come from their neighborhoods and schools, are not the children of their friends and neighbors, but come from a different class of Americans. The only thing they support the troops for is the make sure the oil keeps flowing and their coffers continue to fill up. They are the friends of the oil industry and big business, such as Halliburton. They are making a lot of money from this war, which includes Dick Cheney. Anyone who believes Cheney no longer has a financial relationship with Halliburton is not living in the real world. Cheney has become a very wealthy man while serving as vice president. Didn't know we paid the vice president such a handsome salary.

Sunny, Tulsa (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:37 AM)

has anyone considered that blackwater is not only a mercenary force working in the dark(without any laws) but instead of protecting petrause and other high level people that instead they are there to controll and enforce bush/cheney agenda(cheney himself already shot 1 man in the face and nearly killed him and got away with it)? How long before black suv's start pulling up in the dark of night to AMERICANS HOMES and drag them off after illegal wiretapping and finding out that these people are not right wing neo-nuts? blackwater is bush/cheney verson of hitlers ss.

mikeeg,abdn,wa (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:39 AM)

Frank Sumter, how many family members do you have serving in Iraq at this time? Tuck our soldiers in at night? Senator Webb's son just returned from Iraq, and I believe he has serious concern about how our troops are being used in this civil war in Iraq.

Sunny, Tulsa (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:40 AM)

Once again Joe Lieberman shows his true colors. As long as Arabs and US Soldiers are being killed instead of Jews, he'll vote for whatever reckless foreign policy President Numbnuts decides on. He's the ultimate quisling mole: an agent for a foreign government in a position of power in our government.

Robert Catalano, Salem, OR (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:06 AM)

Tell lieberscum that the voters are coming to intervene!

HP Boston (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:07 AM)

So the Republican plan to continue running our armed forces into the dirt continues. They wish to continue this military adventure using the same guys over and over again. If this is the case we need to get behind our "President" and reinstate the Draft. No exemptions, No deferments. There should however be an economic qualifier. The children of families making over $200,000.00 a year should be the only ones to draw numbers in the first round. This will be the first step in getting this entire country at war instead of just those who volunteered for service. This would also be the first step for the Senate toward getting 67 votes on ending this disaster.
Willie Geist and Tucker Carlson should be given immediate commissions to allow them to lead their own Platoons. LT. Willie and LT. Tucker..sounds cute. Mika Brzezinski should head for the Hampton's and roll bandages and keep an eye on the OJ situation. Joe Scarborough can ramble on endlessly about his political "career", who he knows, and by god the good ol contract with America days and obsess about the next Reagan. Olberman can continue to watch his show deteriorate into Entertainment Tonight. Oh yeah, Chris Mathews...HA! More French Fries!

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:11 AM)

PJ, you hit the nail on the head. A soldier/Marine commits a crime against people in Iraq and then gets courts-martialed for doing so. Then you have Blackwater (probably a company tied to this administration) gets to do anything possible without any possibility of getting tried and convicted unlike the actual soldiers of this country. Sounds to me like this so called war is nothing but a front for companies tied to this administration getting rich off of the backs (lives) of the soldiers of this country. Does that remind you of another conflict? Until the Dems have enough to overcome the spineless wimps of the Repuke party (or shall I say the rich getting richer)this will continue.

Terry, Disabled Vet, Des Moines, IA (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:12 AM)

The distinguished Senator from the district of Tel Aviv.

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:13 AM)

By now it's clear the Republican party doesn't care how much time our troops spend in harm's way, how many deployments they're forced to endure, how little time they get away from the battlefield, or how often they change the rules to squeeze more out of them that they didn't originally sign on for. Mikeeg, you're also right. Once the president has his own private army, how long can it be before that army is used against his political opponents?

John B, Des Moines, IA (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:28 AM)

I hate to say this, but the quickest way to end this war is to reinstate the draft and raise taxes. Only when the "silent majority" who do not have any family in the armed forces and are not being financially hurt begins to personally feel the pain of this war will enough pressure be brought on this administration. As long as the dems do not have the 60 votes in the senate, nothing will be done.
PAT IN BOSTON: What is happening to your Red Sox? My dream of a Cubs/Red Sox World Series was shattered in 2003 but being a Cubs fan, I'm eternally optimistic; could this be the year???

Jamie, Elmwood Park, IL (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:31 AM)

Frank Sumpter, your comment is way out of line. No one is asking to have our boys tucked in, they are asking for reasonable time to overcome the stress of being in the front. It is called Rest and Relaxation (R&R). The mental and physical stress of being in a war zone is devastating, guess you've never been there, hu?

Ravine Force, Kissimmee, FL (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:33 AM)

"Republicans are interested in winning the war in Iraq, not legislating what time our soldiers should be tucked in at night"

Frank, what is your definition of a win?

ken from pa (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:36 AM)

The GOP morons in the Senate called Webb's bill to give the troops a decent amount of time off from Bush's useless war a "slow bleed." Apparenlty, Republicans want American troops to keep bleeding fast in Iraq. Oh, well the Repubs do support the troops by putting yellow-ribbon magnets on their SUVs. I'm sure that's a real morale-booster for soldiers whose lives are falling apart thanks to our fearless leader's endless quagmire.

Why DO Republicans hate our troops?

Houston (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:48 AM)

Jamie, good luck with your team, the Cubs. It gives me a reason to watch the playoffs.

I don't know what happened with the Sox. I guess their bullpen is shot and they're not hitting. Deadly combination. All the things that were working in April-June aren't working anymore.

They are not a World Series team afterall. Devastating collapse.

But how can anyone NOT root for the Cubs? We love your team up here.

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:51 AM)

It is also clear that the democratic party is the party of defeat in America.

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:52 AM)

Has anyone stopped to think ,The king also stood on an aircraft carrier and annnounced mission accomplished! Most do not realize the pay grade for the military is different during war. Mission accomplished , pay cut ,and years later more dead and maimed brothers and sisters in Iraq! Oil is at an all time high as a comodity, so its ok with this admin. Another note worthy thought. Did any of you know that KBR and its subsideries (including Haliburton) was bankrupt chapter 11 before this little police action / war. Is it not interesting that while there are a lot business names in Iraq they are all under the umbrella of KBR, and KBR was the only company that got said contracts.The excuse used was they are the only entity that was large enough to handle the job. This of course a lie ,especially concidering the man Cheney said he no longer had ties to KBR ,but in fact IS still the CEO of one of its subcideries.Can anyone guess where its located; anyone, in Afganistan you guesed it. This company is long standing in Afganistan long before the 9/11 date. So go figure why my brothers and sisters are dying in Iraq. I bet no one asked Saddam why he was trying to irradicate the Kurds? Did you know that after Desert Storm we put a no fly over them for protection ,but we didn,t ask the question. So in fact we were harboring Al Quida as the Kurds were allowing them to train in thier back yards and hiding them when the elite guard came through. You See ;Saddam while a saddistic dictator, hated the Al Quida ,and Kurds for protecting them. Now knowing all this do you not think we have a bunch of snakes in the gov. both sides. You all continue to live in your civy lives and root for your parties ;I’ll try to put out the message to rise against the machine and really change our country so they the real Americans can come home!!!

Jeffersonian Don (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:54 AM)

lets (not) think [[in case you dont know the Dems have the majority in the house and Sen. Not all Dems are giving comfort and talking points to the enemy.]]

The American politician who gives the enemy the most aid and comfort is the "useful idiot" in the Oval Office: G.W. Bush.

Houston (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:56 AM)

Left = Liberal, fool, blame America, anti-military, socialist, name caller, child-like, I'm OK - Your not, freedom of speech - if you agree with me, pro Palestine, and anti Israel.

Honest Abe (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:56 AM)

Let's not forget the families of these soldiers. Many of them have kids who haven't seen them for months, and in some cases, for over a year. Don't they deserve some time with their parent? And haven't these brave soldiers earned the right to spend a little time with their families? You know, before their kids grow up not knowing them at all.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:59 AM)

Jerry and Frank

I have asked this before and i will ask it again, what is your definition of a "win" in iraq?

I know it's easy for the kool aid drinkers to reference a "win", but they never really define it. the reason is that they can't. the definition keeps changing. it's real easy to sit in the cheap seats. Like one of the soldiers said the other day, "if you don't have skin in the game, you are at the mall". Frank and Jerry, are you at the mall?

ken from pa (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:04 AM)

Gary, I can't agree with you about Mica; I find her to be quite nice as I watch her. And her father is someone I would go to the ends of the earth to hear speak.

But I can agree with you about Keith Olbermann's program and the direction it has taken lately. It breaks my heart to see the junk they're putting on Countdown.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but perhaps his ratings will go down. It's the only way we can send the message on how disappointed we've become. We've complained to no avail.

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:08 AM)

Jerry, It is also clear that the GOP is the party that leavess the DEMs holding the bag after the GOP leads to the defeat of America

DEMs Fighting Back Against Demonic Wingnuts (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:16 AM)

Honest Abe: Interesting that "name caller" was included in your list of names you were calling....
God bless you brother. Do you like to go fishing? I'm not being sarcastic, come on, I'll show a favorite spot, great fishing, maybe we can chill & see what's the same about us, why we both love America.

PJ (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:20 AM)

I don't know if my town is the biggest military town in the country. Maybe Norfolk, VA or Killeen TX are bigger. But, in San Diego more and more military families are speaking out against the unfairness this mess is causing. Many in this thread have echoed the same feelings. My point is these families were once solid GOP voters. From what I hear, they are no longer going to drink the GOP kool-aid and will start voting for DEMs.

Steve, San Diego (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:20 AM)

republicans are only interested in blindly supporting anything and everything bush and them want to do, illegal or not, unconstitutional or not. As for Iraq, bush and them are not interested in victory; that would involve winning and then leaving. They have succeeded in invading and destroying the infrastructure of the country,
establishing an occupation intended to be permanent, and are now attempting to dominate the Iraqi government. This isn't about freedom for Iraqis or security for the U.S., it's only about imperial ambition and furtherance of U.S. economic and political interests. War is good for business, and is an extension of neo-con politics, and that is all that bush and them care about. It should be obvious that they care nothing for either the welfare of the volunteers in the military or the wishes of the American people.

Scott in South Texas (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:35 AM)

"Joe Lieberman is by no means a democrat, nor is he an independent. He is a republican. ... Shame on you Joe- being a democrat means caring about all US citizens"

Shame on Conn voters for re-elected this jerk. I hope they are happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What were you thinking? (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:50 AM)

[Keith Olbermann's] I can't believe I'm saying this, but perhaps his ratings will go down.

Is that even possible? Only his family members are watching now, but I hear his mom is thinking of bolting because of his loonieness.

O'Reilly uses Keith's show as a doormat to wipe his feet on before his show starts.

Kevin Hurddle, Kansas City KS (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:54 AM)

Steve in San Diego:

Corpus Christi is the biggest and best military town in America. Any town that wants to get rid of their military bases and the jobs it generates, we'll be more then happy to take them. Since people in Virgina are so anti-military, we have offered to move Oceana down here and we are currently working on it. Virgina may be the birthplace of freedom, but we are the biggest supporters of freedom in the country.

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:54 AM)

jerry, I am following you

Big Brother, Anywhere, USA (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:59 AM)

Steve I don't know where you come up with " these families were once solid GOP voters", but the fact is that is untrue. I my father ,grand ,fathers ,uncles ,etc. etc.. all ex-mil. and non GOPers ,but I get the point

Jeffersonian Don (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:02 PM)

Kevin, you must've missed the news that "Countdown"'s ratings are closer to O'Rally than a loufah!

Joe Einloth (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:20 PM)

EVERYthing's bigger in Texas.
(Sure do like that Bob Wills music)

PJ (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:27 PM)

Jerry ,better be carful boasting . Big Brother might hear you and then call for a new series of base closings .You remember the series of closing that occured shortly after the conflict in Iraq started .I wonder who called for those closings. Anywho ,then CC could bask in a ghost town atmosphere like so many no ex-military towns.

Jeffersonian Don (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:28 PM)

Ok, so Petraeus is on record as saying counter-insurgency operations typically take 9 or 10 years to complete successfully - a "win", as we shall call it. Our troops have been fighting for almost 5 years now, but only fighting counter-insurgency operations for 1 or 2. So that means we have about 8 or 9 more years to go. Our forces are already strained and breaking, so the Democrats tried to pass legislation that would require them to stay home and rest for as long as they were deployed. That makes sense. But the Republicans - who claim to be the only ones supporting our troops - don't think they need rest. So, by the end of next year, when the "surge" forces are home, that will leave about 130,000 still in Iraq. They will have to come home whether there is progress or not, unless tours are extended.

So Bush will claim that we have been successful, and that is why troops are coming home. When they do come home, violence will likely rise again because it will have only been 3 years since we started our counter-insurgency campaign. So 6 years left, and less troops available. Meanwhile, ALL the troops are strained and will probably be less efficient because of war fatigue after 5 or 6 tours. So by 2010 or 2011, there will still be no political solution in Iraq, our troops will be spent, gas will be $4.00/gal, 8,000 troops will be dead, 50,000 troops will be injured/maimed, Osama bin Ladin will be laughing, the rest of the world will be saying "I told you so", and Bush will be the most hated public figure in American history (except, of course, among the jerries of the world).

All because the Republicans are "supporting" our troops.

CitizenJ (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:34 PM)

Scott in Texas. I agree with everything you said. Its a sad day when the America public is asked to support a war that is not in the best interest of our national security or our military. I have heard the saying "right in the beginning, right in the middle and right in the end." How can we "succeed" as the Republicans keep insisting, if the invasion was based on lies in the beginning, mismanaged in the middle, and conducted dishonestly to the end?

Amy B Portland, ME (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 1:07 PM)

You know, I'm starting to get the feeling that those on the right who accuse the left of not caring about the soldiers are just as guilty of those they are accusing. You don't give a damn about the soldiers for any other reason than they are the direct instrument of Bush's foreign policy. You don't care how little they and their families are taken care of financially as long as they are in Iraq to fight for you. You don't care that their families and recently born children don't get to see them for a year at a time because they are in Iraq fighting for you, and you don't care if they have a larger incidence of PTSD from repeated tours as long as they are there to fight for you. How cold and callous can someone be when they let someone else do their fighting for them and then not give a damn about what happens to them as a result of the battles they are fighting for you.

Having been a soldier, having been in combat and having suffered as a result of it for years later, I can honestly tell you, it is not the Vietnamese people, the one's who went to Canada to evade the draft, or the one's who joined the National Guard or Reserves to avoid going to Vietnam that I am the most angry with. The people I dislike the most are the "Sunshine Patriots" who are willing to sit in their recliners armed with nothing but their trusty remote and their bag of potato chips and support sending young men and women to war with no more thought than about the next chip they pop into their mouths. The next time one of you reliner warriors want to complain about how are troops are fighting, go join the military yourself, or send your sons and daughters. Put up or shut up.

Robert Catalano, Salem, OR (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 1:09 PM)

You people are confused. First,you cry crocodile tears over the ''dismantling''of the Constitution when it comes to granting foreign enemy combatants Habeas Corpus rights which appears nowhere in the Document. Then you cry ''Imperialist King''when the Constitution backs the president. NOT Congress in this matter. Congress has no constitutional right whatever in setting troop timetables. You are advocating an unconstitutional act by Congress. ALL that they can do is to cut off funding entirely to bring the war to an end. The Document grants the president and NO others,the mantle of military commander-in-chief. One person. Not over 500 people with disparate opinion,as the Founders instantly realized. Small wonder that support of Congress is now heading towards single digits,an American historical first.

Lee Holmes (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 1:18 PM)

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