GOP MoveOn measure passes

Posted: Thursday, September 20, 2007 2:30 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Congress

From NBC's Ken Strickland

A nonbinding resolution repudiating a MoveOn print ad passed the Senate with 22 Democrats joining all Republican senators. Most of the those Democrats represent so-called "red" or "purple" states. The final vote was 72-25.

Democrats voting yes for the GOP-backed measure were Baucus (MT), Bayh (IN), Cardin (MD), Carper (DE), Casey (PA), Conrad (ND), Dorgan (ND), Feinstein (CA), Johnson (SD), Klobuchar (MN), Kohl (WI), Landrieu (LA), Leahy (VT), Lincoln (AR), McCaskill (MO), Mikulski (MD), Nelson (NE), Nelson (FL), Pryor (AR), Salazar (CO), Tester (MT), and Webb (VA).

A softer resolution that Democrats offered failed to muster the 60 votes required for passage. That bill condemned all personal attacks against military personnel, but didn't identify MoveOn by name. That vote was 51-46.

Presidential votes:
-- Clinton voted for Dem bill, against the GOP bill
-- Obama voted for Dem bill, was a no-show on the GOP bill
-- Biden was in Iowa and did not vote on either bill
-- Dodd voted for Dem bill, against the GOP bill
-- McCain and Brownback voted for the GOP bill, against the Dem bill

EMAIL THIS

Comments

Laurie, Manasquan, NJ You need to go back and read my post. I'm glad people stood up to this and called it what it really is an attack ad. I stand by my comments that we should not be attacking and smearing our soldiers becuase I believ it's irresponsible during a time of war. But I do believe in free speech AND never said otherwise. So now you're comparing what I said to Hitler? Typical left talking point just because you're okay with irresponsible free (hate) speech doesn't mean that those who disagree with what's being said are somehow responsible for killing over 6 million people or that we would ever do something like that. You don't support our troops you don't support our country so why not leave and see if you can find anywhere on earth as great as America. And when you do leave, I hope that free speech thing still works out for you but I wouldn't bet on it.

Mike PAV (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:26 PM)

This is like a headline from The Onion. It's nearly impossible for me to believe that Congress spent the day debating this issue when there is a war -- a WAR -- going on, which they are doing nothing about.

Every time I think I don't have any more outrage left about this war, our elected officials do something even more outrageous and dispiriting than usual.

cms (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:30 PM)

The people who voted to condemn the ad are the reason why many of us normal citizens believe the Constitution has become the toilet paper for the Bush clan.

If someone cannot issue an opinion and then not be slammed by the US Senate, then something is wrong. Whether Petraeus was truthful in that the comments were his own or not is not immaterial, just misleading. The Bush Administration picked Petraeus soley for his strong ties to their philsophical beliefs of that god-awful war in Iraq. Yessiree, we can win it!! Wow... how gullible are we? How do you now define a win? How can we define "success" when we have little to clearly call as being successful? Maybe the military has been successful in some operations. However, what is the net effect on the political scene in Iraq? Are the people, the country of Iraq any better off since the Surge was instilled? Will we ever get out of that country and let them sort out their differences? Will we ever realize the only reason to be in Iraq is to protect the oil?

The US Senate (those who voted for the GOP bill) should be ashamed of themselves by their rebuking of the MoveOn ad. If you don't like what someone says, either defend the opposing view or leave it alone. Sometimes, just ignoring it will make it less important and it will disappear as an issue.

And, the Dem bill is not much better... protecting the military against unflattering opinion? Do we live in a dictatorship, a reincarnated Roman Empire or a democratic republic with the best Constitution ever written?

We certainly live in interesting times.

Nick, Ohio (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:30 PM)

I don't like Move on but this is ridiculous -- what about all the right wing nuts and their comments -- Don't ya think that Bush is bringing this all up to cause a distraction because of all the bad news this week??? Blackwater, Canadian Money, Economy, etc, etc. --- we are not in school -- let's talk real issues not this junk over and over and over again --- and it looks like Karl is going to do a Hillary again --- do we really want this -- and acted out on TV it is an embarrassment to our children if they were raised properly -- it's just a joke
Stop all the bickering unless it is on a real issue.

Besides, BUSH betrayed US with using Petraeus -- he walked into that job with his eyes open, their were those before him who did refuse.

Paulet, Simsbury, CT (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:31 PM)

So what if an ad sticks it to the General. King Bush would have us all in the military and practicing his religion as well. Dems need to lift some weights and move to the front! 2 out of every 10 Americans live in California (A BIG BLUE STATE). The system is broken and giving equal representation to Red states that have a tiny portion of the population isn't the will of the people. Rock musician Henry Rollins with his IFC talk show is the only person I've heard with any spine on the left. Rock on Henry!

Greg P Newbury Park CA (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:42 PM)

Roger, Oakland, CA Move on.org has an agenda there is extreme left bias in all they say and do. Did you know that even the lowly dreaded Fox News presents a both a left and a right point of view? Even they are more credible than moveon. So don't waste our time with extreme left nonsense find something nonbiased to present your argument otherwise it's meaning less.

Mike PAV (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:43 PM)

01.20.09

Bill K., Arlington, VA (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:52 PM)

How can someone say they support our troops but they don't support the war when our soldier's goal is to stay and fight and win? I'm tired of lefty's hiding behind this statement to use it as cover for attacking our troops. You can hate our President, our country, the Conservatives and Republicans BUT don't try to sell us that garbage that you support our troops it's quite pathetic. It's like rooting for your home team to lose and hoping the team gets off the field before the end of the game all the while proclaiming that you support them when the team's goal is to stay in and win.

Mike PAV (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:55 PM)

All this talk about victory vs. defeat, stay the course vs. surrender, liberating the Iraqi people and bestowing the blessings of democracy upon them vs. abandoning them to bloody chaos, ad nauseum, is totally bogus. The truth is our current foreign policy for the Mid-East, designed and adored by the neo-cons, is to establish and maintain permanent military bases in the region so as to perpetuate a military presence conveniently located to facilitate the next wars (Iran and Syria). The neo-cons require a permanent, robust military presence in this region to protect our access to the region's oil, to protect Israel, and to show any other nations who would dare to compete with us strategically that we do in fact have the biggest dicks, so to speak.

Our "friends" the Saudis threw us out, but this tyrannical, despotic, oppressive regime is apparently not sufficiently "evil" to warrant invasion and overthrow. Rather, the Saudi royal family is somehow worthy of our support and friendship, despite the fact the they are undoubtedly the world's greatest financiers and exporters of extreme, Wahabbi-style, Islamic terrorism.

Fortunately for the neo-cons, there was Iraq and Saddam, and fortunately for their supplicant, george w. bush, there were the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Otherwise, our troops would not be fighting for their lives in Iraq in 2007. As for staying the course and winning, if the troops stay for another ten, twenty, or thiry years, to the point that only 50,000 or so must be stationed there at all times, and to the point that only thirty or forty soldiers or marines are killed each month, would that be what war-lovers would consider victory ?

Scott in South Texas (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:55 PM)

1. Bush is a poor president. He dropped the ball. 2. Moveon.org is an organization that offers NOTHING to the country. So really who cares what they wrote - the funny part is it proves they have nothing but name calling. 3. Too late to just quit and leave Iraq - we broke it, we bought it. 4. Dems - instead of blaming and pointing fingers, come up with a solution that could actually work. You will win the White House in a landslide if you do. Reps, become the party of ideas again - please. Defending a lame duck president who seems to have let go of the wheel is a waste of brain power. Can some candidate become the candidate of America?
We need to realize that this country and the lives we cherish are in jepordy, not from outside forces, but from the Anti American forces in the Democratic party and the Lemming forces in the Republican party. Our Greatest leaders do not run for office because of the garbage that Moveon and Mike Moore and activist on both sides say about tham - true or not. Our govenment acts like the house of commons in England where they yell at eachother and accomplish little. No need to move to France, we are doing a graet job of replicating it here! Enough all ready!! Who cares about the stuff that DOES NOT MATTER like who called who names. Grow up and lets become the country we can be!

Dave C, Duluth, MN (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:56 PM)

Right PJ, get it down to a level they can comprehend. They are nuance challenged.
Bush Sucks!

nuanced (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:57 PM)

Mike obviously doesn't speak to the 60-70% of Americans that support troop withdrawal. The best way to support the troops is to stop forcing them to fight another country's civil war.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:59 PM)

News Alert---- Bush still sucks---that is all. Stay tuned for further alerts.

Z (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:10 PM)

GOOD EVINING MY FELLOW AMERICANS, YES IT'S TRUE BUSH STILL SUCKS.

X (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:11 PM)

Oh my, Laurie, Manasquan, NJ, no one is locking up these people, rather admonishing them. Also, the Moveon ad states information from other sources to which General Patreaus was asked and answered. Read his testimony.

Liberalism is a Mental Disorder (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:11 PM)

its sad, free speech is being demolished by all who are in power (both the republicans AND the democrats)..

maybe its time we got ourselves a NEW congress, and failing that maybe its time to dissolve the current government like Jefferson was fond of thinking and reconstitute it to be something more FOR THE PEOPLE!

timetokickthemout!!! (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:18 PM)

I was one of those who thought Move-On was a little over the top and their timing wasn't that good. I supported the purpose of the ad, but not particularly the method. But...now I see how much play they're getting. It's being debated in the Senate, mentioned on the campaign trail, plastered all over the news, and, of course, debated on blogs such as this....maybe, just maybe, the Move-On folks are a whole lot smarter than I gave them credit for when they first ran the ad. I'll even bet that their contributions are up as well. And maybe the Republicans aren't all that smart to be giving the ad soooo much publicity. So who's smarter, the Republicans or Move-On?

Al, KS (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:20 PM)

Hello all my former Fetuses. Yes that is right if your mother had the choice maybe you would not be around. Who, cares about George, "I am a marxist, with unknown roots to my wealth Soros." It is this simple congress under the dems has a lower rating than a fake conervative president. By the way people NEO Con, means, "New Coservative." Well if you go back to true coservative Values i.e. Plato, (and yes the The Republic is conservative doctrine), Michael Savage (my favorite) , John Locke, G.W.(that is Washington my slower liberal friends), Lincoln, Eisenhowser, Truman, Goldwater, etc. You will find that Pres. is not a true conservative and in fact is a liberal. That makes all of you screaming "red diaper doper babies," Michael Savage's words not my own. I know this will make many of you upset, but such is the ridiculous time we live. Those who sit by and let these thoughts of social equality and Marxism creep into their lives are doomed to live under oppression. The True road to freedom is just this, stop supporting the new socialist party and their attack dogs the ACLU, and Moveon.communism. If you like a socialist state move to where we all fled at some point. Yes, this will hurt but no matter what race,color, or creed you are your ancestors were smart. Wether they were forced or came on their own they all fled some sort of socialist/ communist / dictatorship, to come to the U.S. So do not ruin this country for future generations stop trying to move this country towards a the Europe that many of us just fled.

Seth (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:40 PM)

Nick, no one said MoveOn shouldn't have an opinion. They are entitled to it, and they should shout it from the rooftops if they desire. However, certain things cross the line. Calling any soldier,much less an active duty general "Betrayus" crosses that line.

Unfortunately, civility seems to have gone out the window, as demonstrated on these boards everyday, by folks from the left and the right.

It was a clever bit of politics however, on both the left and the right. It's another arrow in the quiver of the GOP to paint Hillary as too lefty. Meanwhile, Obama outsmarted her, by refusing to vote.

Bruce, NV (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:43 PM)

I think the canidates money and Influnece need to be American. This George Soro's guy funding move-on is not American and should not be able to have any influence in American politics. Imagine a foreign power trying putting in weak American leaders to make bad decisions so they can overthrow the country???

Eric Timco (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:44 PM)

Mike PAV...

You are a sidestepper. You won't address my points because you can't. Just admit it. Admit that you are at a loss when someone of superior intellect challenges you. Admit that the best you can do is regurgitate Rightwing radio BS.

M. Boley (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:45 PM)

Eric Timco (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:45 PM)

Cornyn is a disgrace. I'm sure he voted against the Webb bill that really did support the troops. Much easier to score cheap political points while Cornyn and the rest of the Republican robots hurt the troops and our country by keeping Bush's Iraq fiasco from ending.

Houston (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:50 PM)

If Republicans in congress have a moral compass there is something seriously wrong with it. Voting in outrage to condemn a political add, but heartlessly refusing to vote in favor of troops spending at least as much time with their families as they have spent in combat is mind boggling. The lunacy of the pro war argument is that we can actually win an idealogical war with an exhausted, conventional army in a land where, by our very presence,we are actually creating more enemies than we are killing.

The self righteous hypocrites who feel that it is OK for a very small percentage of the US population to bear almost the entire burden of this mess are the ones who need to get out, preferably to Iraq to lend a hand. And any Republicans in congress who are only waiting to win their primaries before bailing on this war when they know people are dying every day, should be charged with murder.

AP from IL (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:51 PM)

"However, certain things cross the line. Calling any soldier,much less an active duty general "Betrayus" crosses that line."

So, Bruce, how do we define what that 'line' is then?

Sorry, but I really don't give a damn about 'subjectivity'. Your personal feelings, hate to break it to ya, do not mean squat. You cannot speak for everyone and for you to insinuate that discourse somehow has to follow some vague 'guidelines' is absolute rubbish. Lemme tell ya something: I speak my mind and I do NOT give a damn what anyone thinks of it. I am not a sheep and I do not follow any unwritten 'rules' that some loser devised when it comes to what I say. If someone deserves to be 'attacked' then they will be attacked. Simple as that.

If you do not like it then you certainly do have the freedom to not listen. Think about it.

M. Boley (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:05 PM)

Seth - don't they have a pharmacy where you come from? You forgot your meds when you came ashore - ye gods!! We let anybody in don't we???

T-Rex (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:00 PM)

I posted the ad for one simple reason: so that the criticism and the sources of criticism could be read first-hand. Too often, we rely on 3rd parties to do our anlyses; so whether you like or dislike MoveOn, believe they aren't credible or believe they have an agenda (that's kind of silly...of course they have an agenda) it is not relevant.

The fact that we are at War or that this is a 4 Star General also isn't relevant. Some believe you shouldn't criticize a general, a President, or a war when you're at war. Others believe war is when you should be the most skeptical. Both sides believe that world-view is "supporting the troops."

Repudiating the ad is a stunt...pure and simple. It does absolutely nothing, and there are more important things to be debating.

Meanwhile, we have criticism with sources. We have something to evaluate. Are we? Of course not. It's just too easy to bloviate.

Roger, Oakland CA (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:10 PM)

The neocons want and expect the progressives to be better than they are. Their motto is "do as we say not as we do". I'm flattered that they have such a high opinion of us and want us to remain superior.

nuanced (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:21 PM)

Support the troops. Bring them home.

There is a reason it is called the Defense Department and not the Offense Department. There is a sacred trust between our nation and our military that we will not spill their blood except for a very good reason in defense of our country. We betrayed that trust when we sent them to die in an optional agressive first-strike war against a country that did not attack or threaten us and now to die as a detested occupation force for feeble reasons that change by the month and definitions of winning that change just as often. That sacred trust was betrayed by President Betrayus, Senator Betrayus, Representative Betrayus, Republican Betrayus and yes also General Betrayus who became a collaborator with the betrayers.

nuanced (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:30 PM)

M Boley, speaking your mind must be awfully exhausting for you.

Where's that alleged "superior intellect" you possess? You certainly fail to show it in your quotidian postings of rubbish and name-calling.

One of the reasons the left will fail in '08 is precisely due to the lack of civility that I referenced earlier. That, and the conviction that they are smarter than everyone else--that kind of hubris has cost liberals before.

Bruce, NV (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:50 PM)

Laurie, Manasquan--Interesting that you want Mike to defend your free speech, but are so willing to squelch his, isn't it?

I ask again, how was MoveOn's free speech impacted? Did not their ad run, along with subsequent ads? 'twould seem that, like so much else, the "destruction of the Constitution" has been greatly overblown.

Bruce, NV (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:53 PM)

Seth - if you think George Bush is a liberal you must have come from place with a most repressive government indeed! My guess - somewhere in eastern Europe, Russia, Georgia, maybe the Ukraine?

Certainly no where in western Europe - Oh, and don't make the mistake of confusing conservatives with neo-conservatives....two very different political animals. And for God's sake, listen to someone besides Michael Savage for information and entertainment. This guy appeals to the basest emotional instincts of the vastly uninformed right-wing nation (yes, those neocons that you confuse with conservatives) - Plato?? No relation to Michael Savage I would think.

If you've come from a repressive political culture you need to expand your new political horizons - forget that creeping socialism and incipient communism monster under the bed (it's not happening here - you're safe). Start hanging out with liberals and progressives to get you head straightened out - start getting used to the unfamiliar in other words. Tune into Media Matters and their vast library of liberal and progressive links. Once we depose King George and his entourage we will all be free again, and so will you.

This is something you can get used to - I promise!!

T-Rex (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 8:12 PM)

And Democrats say they support the troops!!! hah, with statements like MoveOn's and the unwillingness to call anti-americans for what they are, they have shown where they stand for. Forget about Bush, the Democrats will drag this country down the tube of unti-americanism in two to three years from now. At least we, conservatives outside the beltway have shown we're for the troops.

I say, let's close the government and start a new one with real people who what to make this country better. Dems and Reps have shown they are impotent to do that!!!

Al Diaz, Ashburn VA (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 8:30 PM)

by that token,one should not say anything against the president too since he is the Commander in Chief.
So all you democrat wimps should keep quite lest it be brought to vote.

mm,ma (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 8:35 PM)

Sounds like a lot of confused, conflicted and bewildered libdems on this post today. But why worry? They have each other to take it out on. Sweet.

28-70 on the Feingold vote and you can't even get your best folks to support MoveOn.org. Hey, maybe the other side will lose one tomorrow but for today you guys mostly suck!

Richard, Washington State (Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:36 PM)

I'm loving this......

You bunch of bed wetting liberals can't even keep your own party in line......

why don't you try third party and see if any other Americans will listen to your hallucinations?

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 12:14 AM)

Laurie, Manasquan, NJ wrote… “You're the one who should leave this country. If you support the troops so much, why don't you join up and put your back side where your mouth is.” NEWSFLASH! Laurie I already served my country I’m a Proud Army Vet 3 of the 3rd Calvary Scout Brave Rifles! And I still have a lot of buddies that are serving over there NOW. What have you done for our country except complain and undermine our Troops with the help of a political party that’s invested in defeat. I’ve been posting at First Read on and off for over a year maybe you should research someone before you attack them, come to think of it maybe you should research what’s really going on in the world and the war and not just regurgitate what you’re programmed to hear and say. But I guess it would be too much to ask that you go find the facts that prove you’re wrong.

Mike PAV (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 8:43 AM)

M. Boley. Sorry for not responding to you in a timely manner I actually have a life to lead. I’m not sidestepping you. But first I’m going to humor you. Let’s just say you’re the most intelligent human being on this planet (stranger things are possible) it still doesn’t make up for your lack of common sense. So let’s ask ourselves who gains if we lose in Iraq? Ding, ding, ding! The answer is multiple groups: Let’s start with the obvious the Democratic Party. To be fair I’m sure that the Democrats didn’t or maybe in their heart of hearts do not want us to lose but the simple fact is they have been preaching doom and gloom death and destruction not to mention the fact that it would be a political disaster for them if we win over there. They have invested in defeat it is a fact in all they do and say. A prominent black Democratic leader actually said when asked the question: What would victory in Iraq mean to the Democratic party? He said and I quote “It would be really really bad for us. Next group to benefit, you guessed it al Qaeda I don’t think I need to state the obvious (genocide ethnic cleansing make Vietnam look like a picnic that will take place if we pull out). If we do everyone that’s against our troops finishing their mission should be forced to watch the media coverage of the horrific acts that will occur. Finally we have Iran who will use our loss and their development of nuclear weapons to establish a hold on the Middle East and with that 80% of the world’s oil supplies. I could go on and on but if you don’t get it now you probably never will. So keep your head buried in the sand with moveon.org feeding you talking points I guess it’s one way to escape reality.

Mike PAV (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 9:02 AM)

M Boley "I am not a sheep and I do not follow any unwritten 'rules' that some loser devised when it comes to what I say". No you're just a proud naive little democrat that gets his marching orders and talking points from moveon.org and the like, I love how these groups actually tell liberals how to argue with conservatives. Discredit their sources of information and leave them speechless, ring any bells? Who' the mindless sheep M Boley?? I mean really try to come up with something on your own that makes sense. Do your own research form your own opinions then maybe you sound intelligent enough to actually debate. But for now you’re really starting to bore me so I’m going to “move on”…forgive the pun

Mike PAV (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 9:13 AM)

Mike PAV...Baaaaaaaaaa

H P Boston (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 11:34 AM)

Mike PAV...Baaaaaaaaaa

H P Boston (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 11:38 AM)

Scott in South Texas(Sent Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:55 PM), very well said. I agree 100%. Everyone should scroll back and read it and think about it. It expresses the real choices we face.

nuanced (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 11:55 AM)

HP Boston. That's very telling and very original usually I'm met with silence when liberals lose a debate. Is Baaaaaaa a typical liberal response for you HP when you can't win a debate? I love shutting down useless rhetoric and extreme lft false taalking points.

Mike PAV (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 1:44 PM)

MIKE, Sheep are not silent and need to be relieved of their big woolly rhetoric.
I'm sure that there is no telling you anything, you are herded by the sheep dog named shrub and baa, away you go! Go back to your pen and save the crap you shake off your wool for the other sheep!

H P Boston (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 2:21 PM)

HP Boston You are right there's no amount of BS that you can tell me that I haven't already heard from the left before. The difference between you and me is I actually listen to and watch everything from Alex Bennett and CNN to Fox News and Sean Hannity. I agree with some points I hear on the left and disagree with others I hear on the right. You do not. Please don't bother lying deny this. You listen to only those talking points that you agree with and tune everything else out so forgive me for not being offended by your typical response but I've seen and heard it before. I am obviously making a statement becuase I'm tired of cowards hiding under the guise of supporting our troops, pretending they speak for our troops saying they support our troops when at the end of the day they don't support their mission. You can't have your cake and eat it too and it's about time you're called out on it who better to do that then a former soldier.

Mike PAV (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 4:54 PM)

On the mark Mike PAV!!

Larry Mayer (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 5:12 PM)

Okay Mark I hate the troops I hate the Mission I hate the shrub I hate you! There are you happy now all the words that YOU HATE are right there for you. Enjoy your glee, your I KNEW IT DAY, hey shit yourself! Pretend you are so superior for the troops!
You and Larry go for a beer and support the troops (HOW?) piss and moan because not everyone watches Fox and agrees with you!
You pretend your support and I'll pretend mine.

H P Boston (Sent Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:31 AM)

I can’t imagine anyone really being upset with the ‘moveon.org’s’ “general Betray-us” ad considering it is all politics and all the mud slinging that goes on from both sides, besides it has a real basis of truth in it in that undoubtedly Gen Pertraeus slanted his report to be favorable in support of Bush (he would have been crazy not to). What amazes me is how easily the Democrats are intimidated and ready to cave in. I mean you would think they would recognize by now the Republican often used tactic, probably a Karl Rove strategy, to ‘not answer the criticism but rather attack the critic’. Personally I would have more respect for the Democrats if they would have told the Republicans to quit whining and to just explain why several other reports and the facts totally contradict General Petraeus’ report. How can we ever expect to see some honesty and a checking of the flagrant arrogance from the Republicans if the Democrats always just ‘put their tail between their legs and run’? It would all be laughable if our troops weren’t getting killed in the process while our politicians are playing these silly games.

REG; East Valley Phx. AZ (Sent Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:27 AM)

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