First thoughts: Rudy, get your gun

Posted: Friday, September 21, 2007 9:17 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: First Thoughts

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro

*** Rudy, get your gun: We’ve said it before, and we’ll say it again: Giuliani’s speech today to the NRA -- and more importantly, how that speech is received -- is a big moment for the campaign. His record on guns is potentially more problematic with conservatives than his past statements on abortion or gay rights. Will the audience buy his argument that gun control should be left up to the states (which, by the way, is similar to what Howard Dean said on the issue in ’04)? Rudy isn’t the sole Republican presidential candidate who will be there. McCain, Thompson, Giuliani, Huckabee, and Gingrich (in that order) are addressing the NRA conference in DC today. Plus, Romney (“varmits"!), Richardson (a Democrat!), and Hunter will speak to the confab by videotape. In particular, Thompson has an opportunity to shine at the event, especially after getting dissed by James Dobson. Can he seize it?

*** Quick thoughts on last night’s forum: Did Clinton really refer to the "first Clinton Administration"? We rewound the TiVo and sure enough, she did. Talk about growing confidence... Meanwhile, the budding Biden vs. Richardson rivalry (is it some weird Secretary of State primary?) could be fun. Biden's clearly now aiming for the most gettable candidate for him in Iowa. Edwards once again showed his hesitancy in being overly aggressive to an Iowa audience. When given the chance to hit Clinton over lobbyist influence for her health care plan, he didn't take the bait (and instead praised her plan). But he tried more subtle digs. Chris Dodd was downright fiery. He was not quite as tough on Clinton at the forum as he was in an AP interview earlier in the afternoon, but he did attempt to create contrast with her and all of his rivals. The best part of this forum: With only five people on stage, one could tell the candidates LOVED it. Don't be surprised if Kucinich and Gravel stop getting invited to more forums debates once the calendar turns to October.

*** Questions for Obama: The Democratic front-runner who didn’t show at yesterday’s AARP, Barack Obama, holds a “senior” town hall meeting in Ames, IA -- that, per the campaign, brings together senior citizens and high school seniors. But if Obama is talking to seniors in Iowa today, the question becomes: Why he didn’t talk to them at last night’s forum? It might have saved him from being dubbed the forum’s “big loser” by chief Iowa pundit David Yepsen. The other question hovering over Obama’s campaign is why he chose not to vote on yesterday’s Senate GOP resolution denouncing MoveOn. Clinton voted no on it, but Obama didn’t vote at all. Obama issued a statement saying that by not casting a vote, “I registered my protest against this empty politics.” But that statement came two and a half hours after First Read asked for a response. It was a strong statement, but why not say it in a more public way (i.e. verbalize it)?

*** Playing the outsider card: Speaking of Obama, he’s up with a new TV ad in Iowa on health care, which seems pegged to his senior town hall in the state. “Washington’s talked about health-care reform and reformed nothing. I’ve got a plan to cut costs and cover everyone. But unless we stop the bickering and the lobbyists, we’ll be in the same place 20 years from now,” he says in it. “I’m Barack Obama, and I approve this message because to fix health care, we have to fix Washington.” Doesn’t that last line sound very familiar to the new ad Romney is running? "If we're going to change Washington, Republicans have to put our own house in order,” the former Massachusetts governor says. “It's time for a change. And change begins with us.” Change is all the rage, and candidates in both parties realize the most authentic change agent is eventually going to get rewarded.

*** Iowa is just around the corner: For what seems like an eternity, we’ve been talking about how early this presidential race has started. Well, if you haven’t noticed -- whether you’re a candidate, voter, or journalist covering the contest -- it’s not so early anymore. The Iowa caucuses are just slightly more than three months away. Those caucuses, of course, signal only the beginning to a campaign season that will end about 14 months from today.

*** On the trail: Elsewhere today, Biden and Dodd campaign in Iowa; Edwards also is in the state, where he delivers a policy address on education; Giuliani has already spoken to the Northern Virginia Technology Council; Kucinich talks to a union in Dayton, OH; and Romney is in Illinois. Also, the Biennial Mackinac Republican Leadership Conference begins today, and it will hear from the GOP candidates today and over the weekend.

Countdown to LA GOV election: 29 days
Countdown to Election Day 2007: 46 days
Countdown to LA GOV run-off (if necessary): 57 days
Countdown to Iowa: 115 days
Countdown to SC GOP primary: 120 days
Countdown to Tsunami Tuesday: 137 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 410 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 487 days

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Comments

Hey Chuck, I saw you on Hardball last night. What, did you lose a bet? You had to share time with that shrill rightwing kook from AM radio. What gives. I thought you have more pull with the network.

Imagine that. A woman that speaks her mind, and doesn't put up with any crap from some left wing stooge.

Malkin, Coulter, and now Ingraham. Chris Matthews sure hates uppity women.

Cindy Phillips (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 11:47 AM)

Crystal,
I think you underestimate Clinton. Democratic voters aren't stupid, in fact, they tend to be very practical. There is a reason she's leading in the polls by double digits. I like Obama a lot, and god knows if the democrats choose him, I'll vote for him, campaign for him, etc. But don't be so sure that HIllary doesn't have a platform, if that were true, she wouldn't be gaining in the polls as she is. People are looking for substance, and looking at the trends, she's winning that battle. Maybe it's all creative campaigning, but I don't think so. It seems she's "overcoming" the negatives she started with. Don't underestimate her.

Amazed, Atlanta GA (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 11:49 AM)

John Lynn - You're not serious are you? In the first place Clinton's plan is all about choices. You can choose to keep you current plan, whether it be private or through your employer or you can choose a government plan, similar to...you guessed it, MEDICARE. Someone is scaring you for no reason. Quite frankly, if they expanded Medicare to the general population and allowed everyone to have that basic policy, than those who wanted to get a gap coverage plan like you could and those that didn't wouldn't. Why my friend should you be able to get Medicare and the general population not be able to get a similar Medicare-like plan. Stop being so selfish.

Laurie, Manasquan, NJ (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 11:51 AM)

Molly - Although I did not get to see the whole thing, I agree with your assessment of the forum. It was really fascinating, at least to me, how each of them used their closing statements to send different messages. Edwards wants to rebuild trust with the president, Dodd wants to restore America as a moral force in the world, Richardson wants people to feel like he knows them...and to be honest, I can't remember what Clinton and Biden said, but I know that I liked it.

I walked away from this with certainty that the Democrats have a strong field from which to select a nominee. I know one thing for sure - I would trust any one of them more than I would trust Bush.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 11:53 AM)

BTW - James Curtis You Go Boy!!! I couldn't have said it better. We must be related.. Laurie Curtis.

Laurie, Manasquan, NJ (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 11:53 AM)

President Bush - Thank you very much for the great economy!! Once again, the stock market is at all time highs, unemployment is at all time lows. People that want to work can find that work!!!

Great job!! Keep up the good work!!!

Julie Prenes, Clearwater Florida (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 12:06 PM)

Giuliani will solve all his campaing problems with one statement today to the NRA ... he was state that he will be purchasing a gun today to stand in front of an abortion clinic and will shoot the first gay that tries to enter. The NRA and the Party of ignorance, intolerance and greed will applaud his total conversion. You the man, Rudy!

afmca (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 12:14 PM)

In other news, the dollar falls to EVEN with the Canadian dollar. Thank you, republicans for turning a five TRILLION dollar projected budget surplus into a three TRILLION dollar deficit. Thanks for making the dollar weaker than it has been in over THIRTY years.
Thanks for cutting taxes while spending like a drunken sailor for years, you are truly the party of fiscal responsibility.
It will take years to dig out of the hole these arrogant incompetents have tossed our economy into, and you can bet that ONE DAY into the coming democratic Presidency, they'll all be blaming the mess on him/her.

George (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 12:15 PM)

Who else here thinks Dan Rather has gone completely bonkers? This little dust up between him and CBS is going to be a republicans dream to watch on Court TV.

Roger Jones, Iowa (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 12:18 PM)

It seems to me that whatever Hillary has in her past pales in comparison to the kind of corrupt lobbying, fundraising (remember Abramoff, Cunningham?), and sex scandals (little boys and prostitutes) perpetuated by the right-wingers, Republicans, Bush and company. I don't see those silly Jesus freaks in the Republican Party doing anything to bring us better healthcare, make our borders safe, and stopping this nonsense war in Iraq. Then again, I have never seen a bigger bunch of spineless politicians than the Democrats in Congress.

John Macks, Flagstaff, AZ (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 12:35 PM)

AIPAC runs our government and our policies why vote for any of these tools.

Ron Paul is the one but we doesnt pander to lobby groups so he will never have a chance.

Honest Al (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 12:35 PM)

Well Darth Vader II (Van..or dem dem or whatever name he is using on the other blogs) is responding to me again.

I see you know what the daily tracking poll will say tommorrow. How is that? The average blogger not a political opperative wouldn't know what hasn't already been released. Does Hillaryis44 ( where you work)get the info early?

Regardless, just thought I'd point out what you seem to love TRENDS...going DOWN (11 point spread versus 20)

Just couldn't resist the temptation could you, BTW how is HSU have you checked on him lately seems he's starting to spill his guts. He paid some of the people to donate to Hillary, someone else got caught for doing that too didn't they. Real "Grass Roots Support".....LOL

Lyn, MD (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 12:40 PM)

Obama has more important things to do than vote for congress grandstanding measure and by the way he was in Atlanta last night and doesn't jump everytime msm calls. You guys don't cover him as much as you do HRC anyway

sonya, atlanta,ga (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 12:40 PM)

I see that it's First Read's turn to get bombed by a bunch of posters who never post here any other time to thow out a bunch of trite but stale Republican talking points. Wow, maybe the president has more than 27% support after all.

John B, Des Moines, IA (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 12:41 PM)

Another poll;

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/09/21/politics/p010758D53.DTL&type=politics

New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is leading among Democrats in the California presidential primary, while Rudy Giuliani is slightly ahead of his three major Republican rivals, according to a new poll from the Public Policy Institute of California.

Clinton has the support of 41 percent of likely Democratic primary voters, according to the survey, which was taken over a seven-day period following the Labor Day weekend and released Thursday. Her closest rival is Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, who has 23 percent. Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards is at 14 percent.

The poll shows Republican voters to be more divided. Giuliani, the former mayor of New York City, is slightly ahead of the GOP pack, with 22 percent of likely primary voters saying they will support him.

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney is at 16 percent, as is former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson, who only recently joined the race. Arizona Sen. John McCain is at 15 percent. The margin of error is plus or minus 5 percentage points.

Democrats allow independents to vote in their primary, although Republicans do not. The survey results reflect the views of 455 registered Democrats and independents likely to cast ballots in the Democratic primary and 353 registered Republicans likely to vote in their party's primary. Both contests will be held Feb. 5.

PPIC is a nonpartisan think tank based in San Francisco. The poll results were based on a telephone survey of 2,003 California adult residents who were interviewed from Sept. 4 to Sept. 11.

Note that it INCLUDES independents.

Van

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 12:50 PM)

Fear not, John B, it's just desperation. They know their days are numbered so they just all wanna have their last hurrahs before January 2009.

M. Boley (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 1:01 PM)

I somewhat hope the Republican win in 2008. The reason is that the Iraq War is not going to get any better in the coming years. The mess that Mr. Bush talks about is real, and it is not going away if the US pulls out today or in 2008. The mess is going to be the same. So let the Republicans win, and let them take the blame for the mess their Boys created. The only shame here is that Mr. Bush and his Colonies will be ready to raking in the Bucks for cleaning the mess up.

Prediction: Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney will be for “an all pull out” after 2008.

I keep hear or reading that the Democrats do not had a Plan for Iraq, and truthfully so.
But when you’re getting your butts kick by a third world country, there is very little you can do.
I said it in the beginning, and I will say it again; the US will look just like the Russian when they invaded Afghanistan.
Of course we will have Mr. Bush tell the Country how he would have won the War if just given more money. I hope he will not use the excuse of time for not Winning the War.

Richard, Fort Worth, TX (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 1:01 PM)

Notice that when people have nothing they resort to snide insults. What will you and the other Obama supporters be doing in March of 2008? Yelling at your TV when Barack endorses Hillary for president after getting CRUSHED in the first 3 primaries is my prediction.

You have your anger and vented spleen, we have the candidate who will be the next President of the United States. You have mindless grasping at straws, we have a candidate who leads in every poll in every state. Say what you will, it can't change what is going to happen.

As the eventual outcome becomes more and more obvious, as the time comes when no one can claim that it's too early, or polls don't mean anything, the Hillary-haters will slink away, with their excuses and their anger, back into the obscurity of the fringe where they belong.

Van

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 1:01 PM)

More of the same from the republican chickenhawks here...clinton did it...repugnants are all tough on (fill in the blank)...when you can't answer the question just yell 9/11

Rick, WS NC (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 1:06 PM)

The political scene today has produced a response of extreme concern and strong emotion from a very large portion of the American population. The Bush administration, with the constant strong support of the Republican Party, has literally polarized the American people. And the Democrats, in being overly reserve and cautious, have simply left the people feeling insecure. Even the media, with their controlled behavior in often neglecting to pursue the criticisms or to even identify the seriousness and meaning of the obvious repetition, have simply failed to provide any real insight. In reality though, anyone would have to be really naïve and totally gullible not to see that the Bush administration is totally focused on a private agenda to benefit Special Interests and a select few, who then return substantial financial support and powerful, bold and subtle efforts, including aggressive well funded third party groups, to attack any opposition and to simply manipulate public opinion. The real offense is that they provide only apathy, the costs and the problems to the average American along with an abundance of subterfuge. Over the last six years this deceptive behavior has been repeated over and over and over again and it really doesn’t serve any purpose to dwell on the details as you literally see and recognize it or you don’t.
Today the question is, ‘What can the average American do?’ What appears to really be called for is the impeachment of Bush and Cheney and, along with others, their aggressive prosecution for lying to the American people, to congress and to the world, and for using their offices and America’s resources for their own purposes (regardless of the resulting political difficulties it would give a positive message to the world, a needed warning to future administrations and hope to the American people) but, regrettably, that just doesn’t seem likely. This leaves the average American with the challenge to avoid being used again! As in the last two presidential campaigns we are once more going to see a lot of deceptive rhetoric, manipulative efforts and distraction, especially as the powers behind Bush now work to install a new ‘puppet’. The truth is that what they say really doesn’t mean much, especially when it is about each other (most assuredly when it comes from a likely hired third party). To be effective we need to stay independent and to even conscientiously set our own biases aside, as really whenever we are emotionally connected we are simply susceptible to being manipulated. The goal should be to be objective and simply not letting anyone tell us what we should think, how we should view anything or who we should vote for. I’m personally afraid that there is another ‘puppet’ ready to continue to do the bidding of the extremely wealthy and powerful few, to literally step into the position with their program and support already in place. I for one don’t want ‘more of the same’.

REG; East Valley Phx. AZ (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 1:23 PM)

Amazed, please believe that Clinton is running completely off of her name. Now don't get fooled by polls they have her in the lead but remember those polls are only among likely voters. Take South Carolina for instance, when a poll there was done just among sample of population, more liked Obama, so don't go off the polls, some of the sample sizes be 300 to 400, not nearly enough to be a true measure.
I used to like Clinton alot until I really begin to follow the issues. Just like her healthcare plan, Hillary’s plan would be too financially burdensome for lower-income individuals and families. And by mandating health insurance, it is clear that she didn’t have poor people in mind. Of course many people are going to vote for her b/c they feel like it is a way to have Bill Clinton back in office but if they do that will be there mistake, they should vote for someone who would make a difference.

Crystal (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 1:42 PM)

I agree with you Sonya, Atlanta, GA.

This is the same kind of politics that has to change, when there are important issues to discuss, our dear Congress is voting on FLAG BURNING, MOVEON.ORG ad. The young men and women are fighting and dying in Iraq and I think more focus should be placed on how to get them home to their family safely rather than wasting time and taxpayers’ money on stupid and senseless issues.

To even cast a vote on this MOVEON.ORG thing shows that Hillary is just interested in playing politics of the day which is direct opposite of Obama who is not swayed by public opinion to make his decision and judgment.

TheDonald (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 1:49 PM)

Please people, let's be polite here. vanreuter, or his evil twin, is screaming at full pitch in posts that take up damn near half a page in order to attract some attention.

Do I have to be the only one to talk to him?

Mark Thieme (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 2:46 PM)

James Curtis, you said all that needs to be said:
The truth.

Don't see much of that anymore.

Thank you.

Mark Thieme (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 3:10 PM)

Chuck, you all should take time to listen to two people who are really into giving the "AMERICANS" the true picture of what has been wrecked by the Repubs. in 14 years. Lou Dobbs of your rival CNN and your own Keith Olberman of Countdown. You never mention about the "Union of North America" or about the last true industry in the United States being given away to the Mexicans. Just keep your eyes open for those who can't read, speak or understand English that are barreling down our InterState Hiways. After working a life time to see all this be given away to law breakers just because they say we owe it to them, it is a slap in the face of every American that built this country.
Imagine 75 vote for the condemation of the Petraeus ad and to boot 22 of our grand party voted to condem the ad. Diane Fienstin, Pat (bring back hasis corpus) Leahy and 20 other phonies that say they represent me and my party. George W. witchcraft can only last so long. In Jan '07 we were told to wait until Sept. for the assessement of the "SURGE" it is Sept. now and our total went from 3,000 dead military to be increased by 782 to 3,793 but wait until March '08 for another assessement that will include 75/mo military deaths to a total of 4,300 + and the wounding of 31,400+ of our troops just for a place in the sand for Cheneys oil buddies. One person said it was not a very expensive sacrifice to lose 3,793 for a permanent military presense and a Colossal Embassy to control the Middle East. POSITION, POSITION to protect "OIL and ISRAEL" I would say that lie wan't worth the waste of human life just for a position in the sand.
Just as a foot note; Why did Petraeus bribe the Sunni cleric with weapons to fight the insurgents, didn't he realize that sooner or latter they would use those weapons on our troops and let the "CIVIL WAR" begin in earnest. Shia against the Sunni, now "BlackWater is defending the higher ups at $700/day while our 162,000 get paid peanuts to risk their lives so the "ClusterBattle" gang reaps huge sums of money for these phony delegates wins again for protection that doesn't want to work.

Bob. Lipsett Sr, North Attleboro, MA. 02760-4388 (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 3:10 PM)

I'm voting for "None of the Above", who I hope will win. I tired of this liars and cheats becoming president.

TJ Whitehair, O'Fallon, IL (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 3:19 PM)

Your intense hatred and adolescent postings attacking me are just the whining of a pretender. Which campaign does Mark Thieme work for and if he does how do they view his hissy-fit attack posts? Answer; No one who works for a campaign, let alone as one of the top people in it, would post the things you have here.

If pretending that you are something you are not makes you feel better about yourself, I'm willing to allow you your fantasy, but not if you continue to feel the need to have a flame-war with me about nothing more than massaging your bruised ego.

The only thing you prove with you childish posts is that you carry a grudge far beyond the limits of common sense. That and the fact that you can't be more than 16. Will you even be old enough to vote in 2008?

Your mom and dad would be ashamed of you Mark, pretending to be the, "Head honcho", (lol) of a political campaign. No one believes you. You seem to begin posting after school hours, when by rights you should be doing your homework.

You are bright for a teenager, but your emotional age is on display here, to your detriment.

Van

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 3:27 PM)

I will rule the world with an iron fist, and no one will stand in my way! Sure, I had a taste of the cake will I was president...I mean when Bill was president, but I want the whole cake this time!

My name is Hilary Clinton, and I approve this message.

Hizzary, NY (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 3:37 PM)

To Van:

If Hillary is the so-called proclaimed winner the campaign, the liberal media and the Democratic party better be ready to find a way to keep the Obama supporters from stay home election night! Obama's message of true change is too powerful and I'm sure people who believe in it will not settle for less.

So Van how about you start to think about what your candidate is going to do to convince Obama supporters to get behind her. I'll speak for myself... I WILL NOT VOTE for anything less than true change. I don't want pandering, false promises and lobby influence in my candidate. To me Obama is above all of the candidates Democrat and Republican. If continue to see this trend of the media and Democratic party not giving Obama his fair shot and he looses because of it I'm staying home election night! I might even change to an Independant. I'm sure Obama would not want that but the bar was set high. I won't take a step backwards! Good luck to your candidate though...

BTW...OBAMA 08!

Erik (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 3:42 PM)

Van - Actually, Mark has always impressed me with his thoughtful, reasoned posts. Yes, on occasion he forgets his manners but I am trying very hard to get him to play nice, as I think we all should - yourself included.

As for him being 16 and only posting after school, I don't know about school where you are, but where I am (which I believe is not far from where Mark is) that last post of his was at 1:46 p.m. - smack dab in the middle of the school day. I have also seen posts from him at various points throughout the day, so I guess you are wrong on that front.

Yay, I got to defend Mark. My day is now complete.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 4:06 PM)

No good deed goes unpunished! I take the risk of engaging a lost soul who is a pariah on this blog and he makes fun of me and my dad and mom.

They are both dead, by the way. But the old man would truly be ashamed.

He always told me,
"Never give a sociopath an even break."

Sorry, Dad.

Mark Thieme (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 4:11 PM)

I am an Obama supporter, and yet I am not a hater of Senator Clinton. No matter how smart and capable Senator Clinton may be, I don't think she demonstrates the qualities necessary to be the strong, principled leader that this country needs. Senator Obama continues to talk honestly and intelligently about the issues, and he speaks his mind, regardless of his audience. These are just a few of the many reason why I, and so many others, support him.

Just because a couple of regular posters who are supporters of Senator Obama say nasty things about Senator Clinton, it is a ridiculous to generalize that all Obama supporters are Hillary-haters.

BT, IA (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 4:12 PM)

SORRY WAYNE , YOUR WRONG . YOU WONT VOTE FOR A BLACK OR A WOMAN BECUASE YOU ARE A FIMINEST AND A RACIST . MORE PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER TIME IN HISTORY HAS DONATED TO OBAMAS CAMPAIN. THE COUNTRY HAS PAST YOU AND YOUR RACIST \FIMINEST FRIENDS UP .NOW IF WE COULD JUST GET RID OF YOU .

KI HOUSTON (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 4:27 PM)

As a matter of fact...As a follow up to my post. The media and Democratic Party does need treat Obama with a lot more fairness and soon. I'm sure Karl Rove had it in mind that Obama supporters will be unsatisfied with Hillary that is probably why he keeps pushing her so much. If Obama supporters don't go to the polls and donate to Hillary the Republicans can sneak in and get the majority vote if it’s a close race. Hmmm...

Well I guess it something to think about media and Democratic Party. I still say I want change not more of the same. To me things might as well stay as they are if the Bush/Clinton/Bush/ Clinton thing keeps going. Tell me why I should bother to give my vote to more political dysfunction and hatred. I want a president that can work with others. Mock my words the Republicans will organize against Hillary and all of this political nonsense starts again.

Democratic party, EARN MY VOTE and give Obama a fair shot!

Erik (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 4:35 PM)

More Obama supporters showing their true nature. "If my guy doesn't win I won't even vote, so there!"

Will you hold your breath and stamp your feet too?
The only thing you need to change is your diaper.

The reason why you don't hear that kind of talk from Clinton supporters is that they are DEMOCRATS, not just fans in a cult of personality where to speak against the great man is treated like blasphemy in a religious cult.

Obama is getting MORE than his fair shot. If you are threatening to stay home and give the election to the republicans, you only reinforce the perception here that Obama supporters aren't true to the ideals of the democratic party, which will be better served by the election of ANY democrat over a Rudy, or a Fred.

Van

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 4:37 PM)

VAN , I SEE SOMEONE SAYS POLLS AND YOUR BACK . BETTER START LOKKING AT WHAT REALLY MATTERS AND CANT BE MINIPULATED .ITS CALLED FUNDRASING . OH THAT RIGHT CLINTON DOSENT HAVE HALF AS MANY PEOPLE DONATING TO HER AS OBAMA DOES . BUT I GEUSS YOU WILL PUT YOUR FAITH IN 500 PEOPLE IN A POLL, GOOD LUCK ,I CANT WAIT.

KI HOUSTON (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 4:47 PM)

BUSH.....CLINTON......BUSH......CLINTON.....BUSH (JEB).....This is a bit scary......I think we have other qualified families in America....I pray that we do?! THINK ABOUT IT!

Padre, Wisconsin (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 4:56 PM)

Van if Obama supporters don't vote for you candidate Hillary she just might...dare I say it? Yes I will say it... LOSE! If you are such a great supporter of her's perhaps its not wise to PISS OFF Obama supporters with your sarcastic nonsense. We get enough of that from your canidate. Obama always says he would like his supporters to vote for the Democratic candidate no matter who it is. I will do that if he gets a fair shot ONLY! Take a lesson from him and show us why we (Obama supporters) should get behind your candidate should she be nominated. All the polls in the world don't give me a reason to.

BTW: Don't blindly follow the band wagon think and evaluate what people tell you be them Democrat or Republican. Now you may take my dirty diaper to the garbage if you don’t mind... See ya or may be not come election day lol.

Erik (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 5:32 PM)

Someone has a broken, "Caps Lock", and that seems to be the least of their problems.

Someone has been stalking me on the board and calls me a pariah. Please, I want to be YOUR personal pariah, avoid me like the plague! Sorry about your dead parents, and the fact that it puts your chronological age into question. It means that only your emotional age is 16. Still waiting to hear which of the campaigns you're pretending to run.

Someone defends this guy without paying attention to the fact that I am only responding, not initiating contact with him. If you read the personal attacks that constitute his posts, you'd be asking yourself why you bothered.

Someone is doing their impression of the, "Leave Britney alone!" video for Obama. Too bad we can't see the tears.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/21/leavebritneyalone.guy.ap/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

And finally someone is wishing all the rational people here a great weekend, whoever you are.

Van

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 5:33 PM)

Carrie,
I write you from vanreuter's trash pile. I have sinned big-time, believe you me!

The trash pile is in his front yard (unimaginable junk including old Rasmussen polls from the Idaho state senate race of 1998) and he is out there with a laptop, in his skivvies, sitting in a rusted out '58 Buick Electra on blocks that his uncle gave him for 4th grade graduation.

This is a vision of hell, no kidding. I am sentenced to making the car go Vroom Vroom Vroom while he gives his computer a bile transfusion.

After this I have to have supper (KFC) with him out here and talk politics. I told him I really do like Hillary, but he told me to shut up and go Vroom.

Vroom.

Send some Amana fried steak if you can get it.

Thanks.

Mark Thieme (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 5:37 PM)

Divide and conquer.

Math Man (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 5:52 PM)

Maybe not even 16.

Van

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 6:08 PM)

The only person not taking a fair shot when it’s given to him is Obama himself. Obama didn't show up for the Iowa AARP forum – and the only reason that makes sense to me is that he is not comfortable debating the other candidates and would prefer town hall meetings where he can pretty much schmooze his way through it – If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance…baffle them with bullshit! He had the perfect opportunity to promote his healthcare plan at the AARP forum and debate other issues, but instead decided not to show – I guess that’s maybe because his idea of a health care plan is merely putting a Band-Aid on an already broken health care system or maybe he just isn’t capable of thinking very quickly on his feet – probably both. How does Obama expect to stay in the limelight and get his so-called fair shot, if he keeps dodging the debates and senate votes? No one is to blame here except the candidate himself.

independent, fl (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 6:11 PM)

Be plentiful on the earth and multiply.

Calculational Cosmologist (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 6:46 PM)

Mark - I would encourage you to behave, but I am laughing too hard. I haven't been to the Amanas in years. Another day trip, perhaps?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 7:00 PM)

The Admiral, St. Augustine Florida wrote:
"When will people like yourselves ever wake up? The Republicans whose boots you lick, are the same people that will stomp your ass the first chance they get. People such as you continue to think you are somehow better off than the rest of us because you support FOOLS. Wrong. They veiw you with the same disdain that they veiw me. I'm just smart enough to see that. I'm not so sure about you guys."

Yeah, and the democrats are any better how? Pick your master, what's the difference between them? One is murder, the other is suicide, but the end result is the same. Just the pot calling the kettle names.

JMullen, The Not So Free State of MD (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 8:34 PM)

I will not vote for HRC in the general election if she is the democratic nominee. I don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils, I've been there and done that! I want to vote for someone who I believe is truely inspirational and will change America for the better. And that man is OBAMA. I haven't felt this proud of a canidate since Bill Clinton and never again will I settle for sloppy seconds.

sonya, atlanta, ga (Sent Friday, September 21, 2007 9:14 PM)

Mark Thieme sounds like our little j and the gang hanging out on a three day pass or is that parole!
You guys, don't forget to change your underwear.

MOM (Sent Saturday, September 22, 2007 9:38 AM)

Merle: We can continue with the Clinton's in the 21st century:

Norman Hsu
INFOUSA
The new York Observer
"I knew it was Bin laden (Australia on 9-11-01)
Chinese money
stealing from alzheimer's patients

and more to come..

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:59 PM)

I am so tired of the traditional media's narrative driving the campaign. Biden didn't vote either nor did her provide a statement. Yet, all the of the posts and reports focus on Obama. If not voting is really the issue then cover it completely. I read a wonderful article by Gwen Ifill in Essence magazine. She mentioned that some people receive private phone calls from Bill in his efforts to help support his wife. My question, has he called every traditional media outlet because these journalist seem to let or support Hillary "running the table."

RealB.G. (Sent Sunday, September 23, 2007 5:10 PM)

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