Biden Iraq plan passes

Posted: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:25 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: Security

From NBC’s Ken Strickland
In a strong rebuff to the Bush Administration on Iraq, the Senate overwhelming approved a plan by Biden that essentially calls for breaking Iraq into three sections: Kurd, Sunni, and Shia. While the amendment is nonbinding, it's the first measure to pass, (vote was 75-23,) that goes against the administration's war strategy.

Biden's chief co-sponsor was Brownback. Fellow candidates Clinton and Dodd also supported the plan. Obama and McCain did not vote.

In a news conference after the vote, Biden said his plan is consistent with the Iraqi constitution which calls Iraq to be made up of "a decentralized capital, regions, and governorates, and local administrations." Biden says this plan illustrates how to "end this war in a way that we are able to ultimately to bring our troops home and leave a stable Iraq behind... [that] is consistent with the Iraqi constitution." He described it as "pushing on an open door."

The bipartisan measure also calls on the five permanent members of the United Nations and members of the international community to convene a conference to help the Iraqis set up the federal regions. "We all agree... it's time to make Iraq the world's problem, not just ours."

Republican Senator John Warner, instrumental and influential in almost all things related to Iraq, called the vote an "extraordinary moment because it marks the high-water mark of all the many debates and resolutions we've had in terms of bipartisanship."

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Comments

Now it starts... about time. The wheels have been set in motion. We are on our way out.

M. Boley (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:32 PM)

Big deal. Nonbinding means nothing. How about manning up w/somthing binding?

American Voter (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:41 PM)

Let's see Bushie boy veto this one... OVERRIDE

Amazed, Atlanta GA (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:42 PM)

Good on Biden. Any progress toward the exit is good progress. I don't care now how it happens but behold the spectacle of the Conqueror dividing the conquest and remaking the borders for the little brown people.
It was not ours to do. It was up to the Iraqis to cut the throat of their own oppressor and then through War or negotiation settle their own fate. We stole that legitimacy from them.
Will we practice in the future what we have learned here?
LOL Right!

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:42 PM)

McCain would have voted no anyway, no big deal there. But where was B.O.? This was an important non-binding vote? As a supporter, I have a difficult time letting that slide. I bet that'll hurt him in the debate tonight, too. How sad. Biden certainly has the best Iraq strategy.

Nicholas, Minneaps, MN (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:43 PM)

I believe it would be hard for anyone to argue that bidens plan was not feasible, but I also know that president bush and the war machine will have no part of it, nice to see the congress coming to it's senses though, a nice bit of news for a change

MK,MO (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:45 PM)

Why not just sponsor a rock concert, and have U2 and other bands play? After all this is all about making Liberals "feel" good about themselves, and not saving lives.
Anyone watching the WWII special on PBS? I worry about a time when losing 3800 troops in one day could be considered a good one.

Dave, Tn (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:53 PM)

How about that: bipartisanship! Biden can work with others and is the most qualified candidate. He should be the frontrunner and may very well be before this is all over. Don't believe what the media is telling you. (Look toward the Iowa voters; they are the only group that is standing between big money and influence completely taking over the election process and somebody like Biden having a shot). Biden is going to shock people with his Iowa showing.

Jackie in IL (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:59 PM)

American Vote - a lesson in civics and govt procedure would do you good...the very nature of the relief sought in the bill makes it non-binding. Congress cannot legally compell another country to divide itself up...idiot!

pat, huntington, ny (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:59 PM)

Glad to see it. I hope this gets the ball rolling. Of course, Bush & Co. won't like it, but it at least makes sense, rather than "more of the same"

Jael, downstate IL (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:03 PM)

Whether it was nonbinding or not, it represents the first time Republicans have gone against Bush in any significant number on the Iraq issue.

I also wonder where Obama was. Is this part of his strategy? I know he won't go to non DNC debates and forums, so maybe he is not going to vote on any nonbinding legislation either. Any Obama supporters out there that know why he missed it. (This is not an accusation, btw - there are lots of reasons legislators miss votes. I just wonder if it is a "statement" on nonbinding resolutions, similar to his refusal to vote on the MoveOn resolution.)

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:06 PM)

Obama has now missed this vote and the vote on the moveon.org ad. Is that Edward's opening to define himself as the real Clinton alternative?

Kelly Garrett (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:08 PM)

I'm eagerly waiting to hear the Righty psycho-talkers' reaction to this BIPARTISAN vote. Of course, they will probably scream at the top of their lungs but that's cool... they know the time for Their Man and His Plan are running on 'E'. Death screams from the Right are fun to hear.

M. Boley (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:08 PM)

Even if it is a good plan and a good bill Bush will veto it because he didn't direct that it pass. It's a decider war president kind of thing.

nuanced (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:10 PM)

Gary: How do you think that the borders of Iraq were originally formed to begin with? [By conquerors with surveyors chains and pencils who cut up the Middle East out of the tossed out Ottoman Empire].

Lee Holmes (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:11 PM)

Great leadership by Biden. This is the kind of leadership we need in the Whitehouse.

Virginia (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:11 PM)

Way to go, Joe.

Brian, Cedar Hill, TX (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:12 PM)

This is a good example of why Joe Biden may be the best answer for president. He at least has a plan that all parties should be happy with.

frank farmer columbia tn (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:18 PM)

This is something Biden has talked about since the beginning. I guess it could be something that he thought would work. It could also be a way to get at the president who said early on that there would be no splitting up of the country of Iraq.

I remember that Sam Brownback talked about this as one of his own ideas during a Republican debate. How laughable is that... At one point Biden didn't fully attribute something to someone else and now it is happening to him with his Iraq plan.

S.B. Stein E.B. NJ (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:21 PM)

About time. Now lets keep it going.

Carmen Colorado (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:21 PM)

I would LOVE to see Bush veto this bill. I say that because doing so would be an even bigger nail in the proverbial coffin that will be used to carry the rotten carcass that his presidency has become out of office. Nancy Pelosi may say that impeachment is "off the table" but a tattered nation will only live in denial amid so much before it decides "victory is the only option" in correcting it's electoral mistakes.

Texas Democrat - Fort Worth, TX (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:23 PM)

Another non-binding resolution?? What's next? A vote on whether chocolate or vanilla ice cream is better?

And, as usual, Obama is nowhere to be found. What's he do for a living anyway?

And the Hillary lovers will think this is a conspiracy by the Republicans to make Biden look good. How dare they do that to the next Queen, ehh President.

Certainly this congress will go down as the biggest do nothing congress in history.

Glenn Nash, St. Paul MN (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:23 PM)

Although, I'm a little concerned Obama didn't vote, I'm not sure I agree with the senate wasting their time with non-binding resolutions, I'm sure this will come up tonight....

Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:24 PM)

Why did Obama not vote for this. Did he feel it was useless?
We will find out tonight for sure!

H P Boston (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:29 PM)

This was just a nonbinding vote - it really doesn't mean anything. Obama has already said that in the end we might end up with a divided Iraq but it should be their choice and should not be imposed by us. I would have to agree with him here. Feingold voted against this and I have complete faith in his judgement.

Jessica, Wisconsin (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:29 PM)

while this is a non-binding resolution please note the 75 votes, 8 more than needed to overide. this is about time biden be recongized as having the best iraq plan, not hillary,obama,or mccain plan, biden plan. if this doesn't vault him to the top tier in this campaign i don't know what will.

karlos (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:30 PM)

I don't think this is imposing a separation that "is not ours" to do. It's more the opposite. These 3 groups were forced together by the British after WWI by drawing lines in the sand.
The Czechs and Slovaks were, too, but now, 90 years later, they have separated as they wanted. Likewise, the Balkan states were stitched together into a "Yogoslavia". Now they've separated (bloodily) as they wanted to.
I wouldn't be in favor of sending troops to Central Europe or more troops to the Balkans to force ethnic/religious groups to live together in one political entity because Lloyd George, Wilson and Clemenceau said they had to. I'm not in favor of doing it in Iraq.
Let's find an arrangement these people are willing to live with.

scott wilcott, marshfield, wis. (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:32 PM)

It's past time the Senate agreed on a sensible solution to the Iraq war. This should be a clear message to the Bush administration, the country wants solutions with clearly understood policies. "Biden" should be commended for pushing this resolution through the Senate.

ray salgado (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:33 PM)

Deb, Largo (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:36 PM)

Biden's the man when it comes to Iraq. He's had the most viable plan all along.

Deb, Largo (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:37 PM)

The only reason there are 75 votes (enough to override a veto) is because this was nonbinding. Easy to vote for something that doesn't really mean anything.

Jessica, Wisconsin (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:38 PM)

Four yrs ago I believed this was a tribal region where religionand politics will not cohabitate. I called for 5 independant states then. I give Biden high marks for taking this stand.Now they have a concept and need to deveop the Logistics to make this reality.The difficulty is to share the wealth they all want to control.This is not all about religious freedom but greed and monitary gain.

SG, NJ (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:40 PM)

This is truly the model that we should use in the future. All aspects of running wars should be done by the legislative branch, not the executive branch.

This vote is ground breaking.

Ellie Mae Johnston, Eau Claire WI (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:41 PM)

while it is not a good idea it may be the best one . What people are forgeting is that it may not end the fighting and it will almost certianly cause another war with turkey. Not sure why Obama did not vote , but does it really matter considering this president and the fact that it is non binding . You think hes going to say "cool great idea i will do it "

ki houston (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:41 PM)

Uh, Pat? You might want to rethink that statement and look back in history. WWII, for example. The Allied Powers divided Germany up between them - they divided Berlin as well. You remember the Berlin wall, right?

The U.S. is occupying Iraq, having defeated them in battle. If we want to burn the whole place down, we could do that. It'd be stupid and wrong, but we could do it. That's what happens when you "win" - and I guess, at least as far as eliminating Saddam's regime, we did win.

That being said, I do have issues with forcing partitioning on an unwilling Iraqi people. At the same time, however, they are unwilling to make the tough choices themselves. It's a very murky issue to me. I do, however, like Biden's plan.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:42 PM)

SG, NJ (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:42 PM)

I have a question... if the republicans aren't going to vote with the dems on binding resolution what's the the purpose of voting with the dems on non-binding resolutions?? The president is NOT going to change is mind and the war is going to continue until the end of his term. Wasn't that vote just last week?? When did this take place? Today?? This is what drives people crazy about congress!!

Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:43 PM)

You know most areas of iraq isn't as clear cut as Biden suggests. Many shiites and sunnis live among each other. Kurds have their own territory.
Even in this case it all depends on the Iraqi Government. The Americans can't force anything on the Iraqis, what are we going to do force shiites and sunnis to live seperately? This vote is just a ploy to make the antiwar crowd happy.
Things would be a lot better if us as Americans can unite behind our troops and ignore the distractions brought by the terrorists and insurgents. They are winning the media and information war, if we can't win that we can't win the actual war itself.

jt,okc (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:44 PM)

congrats to mr joe biden.congess moving in right direction.watch out for veto bush and he's not even italian.but he is the first moron to become president twice.

jerry rolak , hudson,mich. (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:45 PM)

Lee Holmes--No shit Lee, That worked real well didn't it. Lets do it again.

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:45 PM)

This measure gots me thinkin'. Would partitioning Iraq really work? It's one of those ideas that hasn't had its feet held to the fire. What happens after the partition? Will Turkey invade the Kurds? Will Iran gain a foothold in the Shia section? I find it unlikely that Iran wouldn't sponsor a Shia terrorist group like Hezbollah or Hamas. Will Al-Qaeda regain a foothold with Sunnis as protection from the Shia terrorist organizations? This plan would most certainly tone down localized sectarian fighting, but I doubt that the fighting among regions or in-fighting would stop altogether. Which begs the question:

Is leaving Iraq truly the best option? Of course a lot of bad things would happen immediately, but would it be best in the long run?

On another note, why does the “There will be chaos if we leave argument have any merit?” There is already chaos and civilian deaths on the large-scale. Once again, this is a short-term vs. long-term issue. I don’t know why the Demos don’t attack this as short-sided, and have some vision to the future. Instead, they avoid the topic, and that gives Repubs an edge. How silly.

Nicholas, Minneaps, MN (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:46 PM)

John, SF Bay, CA (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:46 PM)

Let's find an arrangement these people are willing to live with.

That's the trouble, Scott. It seems the only real solution is to split them up to keep them from killing one another. The great irony of ironies, is Saddam, for all his many evils, knew this. Oh, but we the great America can go in and just "make" a democracy happen.. out of the blue. What a ridiculous notion that was from the beginning.

Amazed, Atlanta (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:46 PM)

Biden's plan provides the best opportunity for bringing stablity to Iraq. The US military alone cannot win the peace in Iraq. Peace can only come about through diplomacy and the implementation of a political solution that is acceptable to all three factions in Iraq. And yes, many of you are correct when you say that we cannot and should not impose this plan on the Iraqi people. Biden's plan merely provides the framework for a political solution which, in the final analysis, must come from the Iraqi people. This general framework (of a decentralized federal state) eventually worked in Bosnia where you had the Bosnian Serbs, Muslims and Croatians in armed conflict for years. In many respects Iraq is the "Yugoslavia" of the Middle East. It's a fictitious nation-state borne of the British Empire. The only way to avoid a bloodbath when the US leaves Iraq is to try and implement a political solution that gives the Sunnis, Shia and Kurds all some degree of autonomy within a decentralized federal system. It worked in Bosnia. I say it's worth a little effort on the part of the US to try and broker a similar political solution in Iraq. Absent a political solution, peace will only come to Iraq when one sect wipes out the other two. Go Joe!

Kato in Des Moines (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:47 PM)

$50 billion divided between the Kurds, Sunni and Shites (not counting the corrupt officials involved on both sides) should go along way in setting up the individual governships. It will never fix the basic differences which are beyond my understanding.
It amazes me that in this country we assimilated Protestants, Catholics, English, Irish, Scots, gave women the right to vote, yes it has taken years to do this, but it wasn't necessary to kill, maim disrrupt cities and or the country while we work through it. Of course it not to say that we are not still working on racial prejudice and immigration and healthcare and education for everyone. We really need to get back to taking care of our domestic issues.

Kathy France, Rockville, MD (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:48 PM)

I have been against the Biden plan from the beginning because it guarantees we will be in Iraq for several more years. That could be why some Republicans and even the White House might favor it; not because they think it is a good plan but because it keeps us involved in the next administration. My preference is to get out now, which, for the nuance challenged, does not mean precipitous withdrawal.

nuanced (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:49 PM)

Guys, any chance you could link to the roll call vote?

Butch, Pine, Colorado (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:50 PM)

Iraq is still it own country regardless of how it was formed, and has the right to decide for itself. Resolutions like this just continue to make us look like we should decide how others live.
Mostly I am just tired of all the playing politics with real issues rather than doing thier jobs. This is another non binding, non 'anything' statement that means they are not working. Normally a do nothing congress can be a good thing (no damage) but this getting old and pointless.

John, SF Bay, CA (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:50 PM)

This is as important as the MoveOn vote !!

WHAT is the point ?

Vote on GETTING OUT OF IRAQ !!
Make it a binding resolution.
Not this mindless crap !

Has Jumpin' Joe TALKED TO ANY IRAQIS about this ?

An election ploy by a guy who VOTED FOR THE WAR !!
I can feel the Joememtum !
(Get excited)

Sierra, SF (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:54 PM)

WHERE IS THE STORY ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON'S GQ COVERUP MSNBC???????? CMON GET WITH IT!!!

ye ye ye (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:56 PM)

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