ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Clinton questioned on estate tax

Posted: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 4:44 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: ,

From NBC/NJ's Athena Jones
DERRY, NH -- Clinton answered questions from voters at a town hall at the opera house here, which was her second stop on a two-day swing through the state.
    
The first question from the audience after Clinton's speech came from a woman who challenged her plan to pay for universal retirement accounts by freezing the estate tax at 2009 levels. The woman said the money from inheritance had already been taxed when it was earned and she felt taxing it again was the wrong way to fund Clinton's plan.

"People disagree about this, but the estate tax, which came into being by Republicans like Teddy Roosevelt and others, and has been part of our tax system for a very long time is there for a real simple reason: In America, we've never liked the idea of massive inherited wealth," Clinton replied. "Part of the reason why America has always remained a meritocracy where you have to work for what you get, where you have to get out there, make your case to people, come up with a good idea, is that we never had a class of people sitting on generation after generation after generation of huge inherited wealth."

Clinton said people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet were against doing away with the estate tax, because they made it on their own. She went on to explain, to applause, that a married couple could have an estate worth up to $7 million before getting taxed, and said she considered that a "pretty healthy estate to leave to your children."

Other audience members asked about outsourcing of jobs, how to deal with the issue of addiction and illegal drugs coming in from countries like Afghanistan, and what she would do to address disorders like Asperger's syndrome, which is part of the autism spectrum of disorders. Clinton responded that companies that outsource jobs should not get tax breaks; that America needs a comprehensive plan to deal with both demand for drugs at home and the supply abroad; and that she wanted to be the president to put autism on the map and help families dealing with it.
    
Clinton began a somewhat shorter version of her usual stump speech at the opera house by promising not to sing; she joked that would send everyone running for the door. She ended with the kind of direct appeal she made to Iowa voters over the weekend and during her "Middle Class Express" bus tour earlier this week. "I hope you'll join me. I'm asking you to support my campaign," she said, adding that she would keep coming back to New Hampshire to work hard to earn their support.

Lynn Evans, a stay-at-home mom from nearby Bedford, said she it was her first time coming to a town hall like this one and that she was impressed by Clinton. "We need someone like her to turn us around," in this country, she said.  A registered independent, Evans said she had often voted for Democrats and planned to vote for Clinton in the primary. She also said she hoped to make it to more town halls.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

The estate tax is a good reasonable tax.
The money comes to you, YOU never paid taxes on it.
Pay up! We're not here to establish lines of the super wealthy.
Pay the tax, it's knew money to you!

All money should be taxed the same,,, earned inherited,unearned etc
Excellent answer! Except for a few, that will probably be the most honest answer ever spoken by a candidate.
That's nice, but is it news? It must really be a slow day at MSNBC; Dodd's ballgame, Fred 'til you drop, and a series of, "so what", stories like the one here.

Even as a huge supporter of Hillary, I can't, outside of the fact that it again shows her taking questions on any and all topics (contrary to the contention of some), see the newsworthiness, or import here.

Van
Excellent explanation of the Estate Tax.  Establishment of Estate Taxes in Europe is what finally broke the aristocratic model in which generation after generation were wealthy beyond the dreams of most without working, just because they inherited all the property.
Clinton And Torture
10 Oct 2007 12:14 pm

You knew this was coming, didn't you:

Clinton was similarly vague about how she would handle special interrogation methods used by the CIA. She said that while she does not condone torture, so much has been kept secret that she would not know unless elected what other extreme measures interrogators are using, and therefore could not say whether she would change or continue existing policies.

"It is not clear yet exactly what this administration is or isn't doing. We're getting all kinds of mixed messages," Clinton said. "I don't think we'll know the truth until we have a new president. I think [until] you can get in there and actually bore into what's been going on, you're not going to know."
Before she'll promise anything, she wants the power. Then she'll decide what to do with it. So trust her. Go on: trust her.

Andrew Sullivan's column
Tax the rich and give it to Clinton's follower. Another clasic liberal agenda. When are they going to learn that taxing aint gonna work.

I'll support her if she promised not will all her million dollars estate  to chelsea clinton. I'll support her if she does that. Anything short of that is bogus.
Some how that sounded a little scary.
lek, why are you so against American values?

Why do you want to establish America as a 3rd world or India style country? the rich, the poor and a 1% middle class?

Are you just that ignorant or just that much easily made a fool?
Do you even know what makes America great?

If Bill Gates and Warren Buffet support it so much why are they trying to give it away before the government can steal it?
I noticed a curious thing in comments above. WE have a clear division of haters and lovers. No middle of the way thinkers. Has any ever considered the fact that she is only selling the bill of goods she can to pacify both sides of the isle? What she can sell and what she can deliver are two very different things. I mean we as Americans have sat through 7+ years of the great unifier to see that promise has never come to be ,and has only created a chasm so deep there seem to be no return. So maybe she is trying to be bipartisan.Besides do you honestly think she will be able to overcome the Rockefellas ,Lears , Hughs ,only to name a few of the old big money.
It is one thing to have "plans" and it is another thing to get those plans enacted.

What proof do we have that Hillary will be able to get anything passed.  We should be looking at her Senate accomplishments.  

What are those again?  

When has she EVER built a successful coalition?  When has she ever laid out a course of action and COMPLETED it?

She is a lawyer, through and through.  She can argue any side of an issue.   And that is what scares me.  What does she really believe?  If her Iraq War vote was wrong then why the hell is she giving Bush another chance in Iran?  Because she  assumes she will be the next President and is reserving that tool for her administration.

She represents the Clintons first and the people of New York second.  

WHAT HAS SHE EVER ACCOMPLISHED?



"Part of the reason why America has always remained a meritocracy . . . is that we never had a class of people sitting on generation after generation after generation of huge inherited Presidencies, I mean, wealth."
Uh, Lek?  She's going to leave a healthy estate to her kid, 'cause that's her right.  BUT she's also more than willing to pay $___ in taxes on that estate BEFORE she hands it over.  It's the same effect as capital gains tax, like that charged on gambling winnings.  It is, in effect, "found money", which you get only because of your good fortune to be related to someone rich.  $7 million is the cap.  Anything less than that--which includes, I'd say, about 95% of everything in this country--is exempt.  A free $7 million dollars.  Simply because of your good fortune at someone else's misfortune.

It is, after all, far more ethical to tax a dead rich person than a living poor person, since the poor person could spend that money on food, clothes, utilities, etc.; things that dead people, by virtue of their condition, no longer need to worry about.

Another point on taxation.  It is reasonable, despite what conservatives say, to tax rich people more than poor people.  (yes, even living rich people!)  This is because rich people have more *disposable* income--that is, their necessities consume less of their income, and the rest they can play with.  Another, also valid point is that people don't get rich alone.  Their success depends on the people who work for them, generating business for their companies, while they play golf and delegate to their assistants.
Liam,

    Well spoken; the voice of all those not intelligent enough to amass wealth.

Chris
Lest we all forget, one of the main reasons that the Republicans and George Bush were originally voted into office was because of the never ending sex scandals, dishonesty, impeachment proceedings and general untrustworthiness of the Clinton administration. The country was fed up with continually being duped, lied to and led down the path of dishonesty and corruption.....Notwithstanding her husband's inability to keep his penus in his pants, much less to utter the truth under oath, or directly to the American people... Hillary, was a party to all of the deceit and scandal. She was much more than a “First Lady”, playing a prominent roll in the machinations of that administration …

Unfortunately the Bush/Republican alternative hasn’t been much better, albeit there haven’t been any Clintonesque sexual exploits or lingering scandals from the past, the people feel lied to and duped over the WMD’s and pursuit of Saddam and an ill conceived war.

So, as voters, what do we do? Vote in a known conspirator of an administration that again was a disgrace for two terms? Do we really need, or want, another stroll down the Clinton path. If this woman is as opinionated and tough on the issues as she says, do you think that just magically started after her husband left office? No, this woman was an architect of one of the darkest, most deceitful periods in our recent political history, she has more baggage than Samsonite…..All of that aside, evidently, we’re all supposed to conveniently forget those dark days, and concentrate on her own political resume, which is what….no one seems to want to tackle that question?  Much in the same fashion that she’s choosing which questions she’s going to respond to in the debates…if she finds disfavor with a question, she just says, “I’m not going to answer that”…..I’m fearful, this is just a taste of the future, or better put, a throw-back to those days of…”I did not have sexual relations with that woman”

I say it’s time to move on, to a newer less tarnished commodity….To that end, I lean towards Obama, he has taken an A-political approach on a number of occasions, only to be initially attacked by Clinton and the rest, as naïve, or  uneducated, then she/they flip-flop to his view point(s) when its realized that he was gaining popular approval from the voters….He’s the only one to admit his errors, and try new approaches...why don't we follow suit and try a new approach?
I'll take ''Kennedys Offshore Trust Fund Worth Millions In Fiji For Which Not A Dime In Estate Tax Is Paid'' for 500$ Alex.
I think this is a great idea!
Most of us are never going to inherit $7 million, and if you are, maybe you COULD help the rest of us unlucky pups.  
I wonder what the math is to get rid of taxes on ALL earned income, and tax unearned income according to the "luck" factor?  For example, stock dividends would be wise investments so a lower tax rate; but inheritance of cash is just plain friggin' luck, so a much higher tax rate.  And, again, zero percent for ALL earned income.  
I think that sounds like America.
[However, I admit I have no idea what the math would be.]
the telegraph had an article on hillary with the middle class voters.  Seems most of these are being staged with mostly loyalists in the audience and only a few real voters allowed.
Even in a cafe it was all stage managed and littered with her people and not real people.  they are to pose as average iowa voters.
this way it looks like she is answering the average voters questions while being insulated like bush.
Most of this is not real.
Too bad the average voter in the country is not being made aware of this.
Hey, Tuck. If I send you a hundred dollar bill, will you promise to send a twenty to the U.S. treasury?

Also, if the estate tax is meant to fund Hillary's retirement accounts, it won't be enough and the IOU's (like Social security) will start.  Hello payroll tax to fund Hillary's retirement accounts.

Liam:  

Poor living people don't pay federal income taxes and rich people have always paid more taxes because in this country, the rich people are generally reasonable and benevolent and recognize their good fortune.  Then they mostly get pooped on for being rich.

The old 80/20 rule roughly applies.  20%(the rich) pay 80% or more of everything.  They pay more income tax, more capital gains tax, more luxury tax, more sales tax, more social security and medicare taxes, more local real estate taxes. For every dollar saved by a student with subsidized student loans, a rich person is supplying 80%.

If you think taxes sent to the various taxing entities is a good thing then we can't get enough millionaires in this country.  The more rich people the better.

They also supply an overwhelming percentage of private charitable giving, supporting foundations, the arts.  Even PBS is not primarily funded by poor people.  College capital drives are not funded primarily by poor people, maybe not even the middle class.  Charitable foundations are not funded primarily by poor people. And on and on.

Rich people even provide more jobs than poor people.

I suppose some people can make a case that rich people in this country still don't do enough.  But I would like to have someone tell me just what fair might be?

Why shouldnt she be willing i mean a large part of it is stolden and ill gotten money she has gotten from selling out america
SAY IT AIN"T SO!!, its being reported that John Edwards has been having an 18 month affair, has the Clinton Crud rubbed off on him as well?
Clinton proposes same plan as Bush on retirement. HUH? IS this change? Clintons new tax plan.. How much do you make? send it to me and Billybob
why do republicans hate America and middle class children?

I know Sen. Clinton did not have the audacity to talk about a meritocracy when she wants us to vote for her as a legacy candidate: Bush-Clinton-Bush and yet another Clinton.  That takes nerve!
"[Hillary] Clinton said people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet were against doing away with the estate tax, because they made it on their own."  

Hillary neglected to mention that Bill Gates and Warren Buffett have been donating and are also planning to donate most, if not all, their estates to tax-exempt foundations they or their families now control or at least have some control over, thereby enabling their estates to avoid the full impact of the estate tax.  

Buffet even said publicly he set up "billion dollar" foundations for each of his children to run so they would always be financially secure.  

Gates and Buffet are all for keeping the estate tax --as long as they and their families have tax-exempt family foundations by which they can avoid paying any, or very little, of such a tax in relation to what the tax on their full estates would be.  

I wonder how much Bill and Hillary Clinton will leave of their combined estates to Chelsea and how much they will donate to the tax-exempt Clinton Foundation when they die to avoid having their estates being fully taxed -- or have they publicly promised to leave 100% of their estates exposed to the estate tax she likes so much?
The way people are giving Hillary money they must really have a lot of income they need to get rid of before she takes over and taxes everybody to death.

So what Hillary is saying now is that you are a bad person if you inherit money....

Why do Liberals hate people who spent a lifetime working hard and now will be penalized for their hard work.
This is nice for the big ones, but for my grandparents, parents, etc.. who have way less like $800,000 or so, IT SHOULD NOT BE TAXED AGAIN!  What an answer Hillary!!  May Allah Bless You!
The estate tax argument is classic Republicanism at work.  Make it almost impossible for the working man to get ahead and make his millions, but tell him it is wrong to take it away from him when he is dead should he be one of the less than 1/10 of 1 percent who pay it.  Grow up middle class Republicans.  The rich can take care of themselves in the political areana.
LMAO...oh thew cons keep getting conned don't they? I mean really...how many of you even have access to inheritances approaching the current limits let alone any proposed one? Statistically almost none reading this....thats why you've been conned...you are protecting the inherited wealth of kids named heinz,gates and soros while your own get crappy a education and a crummy job at walmart...what a clueless bunch
For Hillary to suggest the estate tax is a republican invention is, characteristically, dishonest.  We had an estate tax in 1797-1802 to pay for Naval construction, again in 1862-1870 to pay for the Civil War, in 1898-1902 to pay for military spending...and again starting in 1916 (to the present in various forms) under W. Wilson, a democrat, in large part to fund our entry into WWI.  Wilson also started our federal income tax obligation.  

Just wish the politicians would be straight with us on the facts.  She needs to raise more money to fund her McGovernish give-away programs to 'purchase' more votes.  

Making promises you can't keep, or never did, having had plenty of time to do so, is too little to late. Fool me once, your fault, fool me twice, my fault. How naive are Americans!?! Pretty much, I'll say.
elizabeth,what has Obama ever done? McCain? Romneny (oh,he exported America jobs),Guiliani (oh he put the command center in the WTC after being told it wasn't a good choice), bush (er , how many bankruptcies, not counting the USA),Edwards? Paul (oh, he's a libertarian for white male, but no women)

Clinton has a great rep for workiing with both sides of the aisle... you may actually have to read about her.
 mrs. clinton may change her mind once elected, the estate tax will be killed because all the people in politics have estates, wake up people, all the vague promises the hillary makes for the less fortunate will disappear if she is elected, her agenda is the same as the republicans don't fool yourself, why do think the republicans in the media are backing her?
Dave, your Buffett comment just proved the point.  The tax is partially designed to eliminate accumulated wealth.  By contributing to charities, that's just exactly what Buffett's doing.    
"Most of us are never going to inherit $7 million, and if you are, maybe you COULD help the rest of us unlucky pups. "

I always find, that the harder I work, the luckier I get.  That's just me though.
There should be no estate tax. Passing down wealth to your children and granchilden is a God given right. If you earn it you should be able to do what you want with it.
Jerry, you need to go back to your US History classes, and you'll learn that the Inheritance Tax is a product of a former Republican, Teddy Roosevelt.  As long as the inheritence tax exemption stays in the millions range, there should be no problem with it. You liberal label argument has no water on this one!
I think it is somewhat disingenuous to suggest that Woodrow Wilson started the "income tax obligation".  The income tax legislation (which was to become our 16th Amendment)was proposed by a Republican-led Congress in July 1909 (this was six months into Republican Howard Taft's administration).  Ratification of the proposed constitutional amendment was finally achieved by the requisite number of state legislatures in February 1913 (a mere one month into Woodrow Wilson's administration).  Prior to the passage of the income tax, most of the federal government's revenue was acquired through excise taxes and taxes on imports.  This was a heavily corrupt system which placed power and patronage in the hands of local customs officials.  The income tax was seen as a fairer method of collecting revenue for the federal government.
wayneTX--Sorry, but I don't remember seeing the part about God wanting us to be materially rich anywhere in the Bible.
Hillary says: "Its mine I'm taking it!!"
Mark Murray:

SINCE WHEN DID THIS BLOG BECOME A POLICY POST FOR HILLARY CLINTON POLICY!!!!!!!!

The Clinton preference that MSNBC shows is absolutely disgusting. As I began reading this post, I fully expected a reasonable ANALYSIS or DISCUSSION of her policy. That is what RESPONSIBLE journalists do.

If people want an unexamined listing of Hillary's policy, they can go to her website.

Mr. Murray, I am disappointed with your, frankly, lazy journalism.
More misguided redistribution of wealth socialism and communism ideas if you ask me.  I am middle class and stand to inherit a fair amount, but certainly not a lot. The estate tax will take a disproportionate share considering that the seriously rich folks can, using existing tax code, avoid paying any at all.

So who gets hurt, the folks like me that live paycheck to paycheck with a very little bit in savings, but whose family worked hard in prior generations to eek out a small share of wealth.

The amount of money will make virtually no impact in the payment for inefficient and largely ineffective government programs.

So the rich give nothing.  The poor get nothing.  And once again, the middle class gets the shaft!!!

Wake up folks!  Class envy is time and energy wasted!
36 comments in and not ONE poster has bothered to refute the concept that the estate tax prevents wealth from being concentrated into the hands of a few extremely wealthy families over time.  Not ONE has addressed the fact that the $7M cutoff makes it completely irrelevant to 99% of estates.  In other words the estate tax works and you're opposing it even though it works for you.  After all, the revenue will need to be replaced somehow, therefore it will need to come out of middle class pockets.  How smart is that?
Why shouldn't she leave her millions to Chelsea?  All she is saying is that since Chelsea didn't do anything to EARN the money, Chelsea should pay tax on it as tho it were EARNED income.  And even that even only comes after SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS.  How many of you critics are leaving more than that?  If you are, you - and they - can darn well afford to pay a little tax on such a windfall.
Does anyone here think only democrats have offshore accounts?  Is there anyone who thinks there are more rich democrats that republicans? (if so, probably the same ones who believe that no republicans are gay)
Bob Scott,that may be true for Buffet, but Bill Gates has said the he is NOT leaving most of his money to his kids because he wants them to have the incentive to achieve on their own.  He even limits his kids' time on the computer!
well,john b..... why use facts when throwing around words like "socializm (sic) and communizm (sic) can be used.

The idiots have been well taught to regergitate rot, and to run with fear.
Scott - if you're inheriting more than $7 million, it IS a lot - at least to most of us who will be lucky to inherit anything.  Do you drive over a bridge you don't want to fall down?  Picnic in a park?  Want someone else to put out your house fire or arrest your burglar?  The fact that you might have to cough up a few extra bucks AFTER that to contribute to the public weal doesn't exactly ruin my day.
John B - are you dense or something?  Refute that the estate tax doesn't leave wealth in the hands of a few?

For the Frobes top 400 wealthist, the  Waltons are all heirs to Sam's fortune.  Gates and Buffetts families won't be poor any time soon.  Mars family has been there for years (candy).  The Wrigleys.  Just go down the list of the Forbes top 400.  Most are old money.

Your statement is flat wrong.

Jake Conmaster, the fact that we have old money families in this country does not mean I'm wrong.  If anything it confirms that the estate tax DOES NOT HURT THE RICH.  They can afford to pay it.  Estates of less than $7M aren't subject to it.  Thanks for helping me make my case that the estate tax is appropriate and should be kept.
c. godfrey -- the people that earned that money paid taxes for all those things as they worked hard to earn it just like you.  I currently pay taxes for all those things as I work hard to earn it just like you.  Why should I have to pay more?  It isn't like this money wasn't already taxed once.  Why should I be penalized by having to pay more tax on top of income already taxed?

Those that have estates in the $50 Million - $200 Billion (that is where the REAL money is in this 2007 world where the AVERAGE estate is in excess of $250,000) will pay no extra tax because the current tax code, which has remained fundamentally unchanged under both Democratic and Republican administrations and congressional control, allows these individuals a free pass if they know how to set up their estates to avoid the ADDITIONAL tax.  Fair is only fair when the middle class inherent modest wealth -- What's up with that?

Tax law that is not fair for all -- as in equally proportional to all people and not some more than others  -- is an abomination and voilates the very premise upon which this democratic republic was founded.  And in this case from the middle class to who? The poor?

Hardly!  The money will never get there.  And it won't go to build bridges, or parks, or hire firefighters either.  It will go to hire more and more beaurocrats to run programs that don't work, are riddled with inefficiencies and fraud, and which ultimately collapse under their own wieght. This is just a ploy to redistribute wealth from a few to the government.

That, c. godfrey, is one of the major tenets of both socialism and communism.  Now -- go have a nice day and keep drinking more koolaid while big brother builds more ways to control every aspect of human endeavor.  When he is done with the middle class, he will come after the poor.  Just check with those systems that exist under socialism and communism.


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=406156

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google