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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Iraq/Iran: More on Hillary’s Iran vote

Posted: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:16 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: ,

On Sunday, the New York Times Helene Cooper analyzed Clinton’s recent Iran vote, and the assessment wasn’t that positive. The vote “asked the Bush administration to declare Iran’s 125,000-member Revolutionary Guard Corps a foreign terrorist organization. Such a move -- more hawkish than even most of the Bush administration has been willing to venture so far -- would intensify America’s continuing confrontation with Iran, many foreign policy experts say.”

More: “Think of it as Iran declaring that the United States military is a terrorist organization because it carries out President Bush’s orders. Such a move, say some Iran experts -- including some advisers to the Clinton campaign who declined to publicly criticize their possible boss -- runs the risk of further alienating the Iranian population, because many Iranians are tied to the Revolutionary Guard or its many offshoots and enterprises in some way.”

Can the US declare victory over Al Qaeda in Iraq? The Washington Post reports, "The U.S. military believes it has dealt devastating and perhaps irreversible blows to al-Qaeda in Iraq in recent months, leading some generals to advocate a declaration of victory over the group, which the Bush administration has long described as the most lethal U.S. adversary in Iraq. But as the White House and its military commanders plan the next phase of the war, other officials have cautioned against taking what they see as a premature step that could create strategic and political difficulties for the United States. Such a declaration could fuel criticism that the Iraq conflict has become a civil war in which U.S. combat forces should not be involved. At the same time, the intelligence community, and some in the military itself, worry about underestimating an enemy that has shown great resilience in the past."

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Mission Accomplished, now aqi defeated, WE WON, bring the Troops home.
This is funny....

Republicans went to war with our enemies......
Democrats are going to war with our allies.....
makes a fellow wonder.....

There are going to be some ticked off liberals if Hillary wins and she orders an attack on Iran.
Hey.....for year's republiCANTS tried to portray Democratic candidates as being weak on national defense, and terrorism.
Seems to me somebody's pissed that Hillary just took that right off the table!
We really should invite the Iranians to tea so we can discuss our differences.
I wonder if passing a revolution that their army is a terrorist organizations is a good way to begin diplomatic relations and negotiations with a country. The moderates seem to be our hope in Iran, so I am not sure that strong "anti-Iran" sounding language will help us get those less radical leaders to speak up.
hillary intends to keep her fat war mongering lobbyist buddies happy, and to hell with the taxpayer

 vote for change, only one dem is not wallowing in lobbyist money, john edwards
Jerry Jerry Jerry .. I see you are still living in in the Bush "state of denial" land .... I had to laugh at your comment  "Republicans went to war with our enemies" ..  I dont remember Iraq attacking the US on Sept 11 ..  I believe and its been confirmed the right wing nut jobs made that one up.
We lost the war.So we pick up our soldiers and equiptment and come home.WE LOST!!Thanks to George.
Well Ricardo, living in California I can see why your thinking is like that......
J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY / Hey.....for year's republiCANTS tried to portray Democratic candidates as being weak on national defense, and terrorism.
Seems to me somebody's pissed that Hillary just took that right off the table!

I don't know about you but I think we need a candidate that intends to get us out of iraq and try some diplomacy before we start killing more people, and that sure as hell ain't hillary, you guy's going to start defending clinton because she is showing her true neo-con beliefs, what ever
So AlQaeda has moved its fighters elsewhere. I't just so obvious. We lost this war. Time to get out.
MK quit yer whining big baby. Yer sounding like Jerry more and more.
Jerry, guess living in Texas means you can't read...cause if you could, you'd have read in the 9-11 Commission Report exactly what Riccardo in California said...we didn't attack our enemies by attacking Iraq, because Iraq didn't invade us, Iraq didn't have a single blessed thing to do with 9-11 and there were no terrorists there until Bush messed the whole thing up! Oh yeah, whatever, so Saddam was not complying with UN resolutions. So what! We already knew he had nothing according to Condi Rice and Cheney in November 2000 saying in a news interview that Saddam no longer had the capacity to wage war.
Jerry just as I can see why living in Texas has brained washed you into believing whatever comes out of Bush and Cheney's mouth is the truth. Will you be borrowing Cheney's Darth Vadar costume for halloween?
All Bush needed was to have the Iranian military designated as terrorists, now he can just say that war on terror gives him the right to fight them with our army.  Clinton will be left saying she really just meant for diplomacy, just like she did after voting yes on the Iraq War Resolution.
G / 'MK quit yer whining big baby. Yer sounding like Jerry more and more.'

 impressive post g, and a good representation of the general mentality of the basic hillary supporters here

you go girl and so-forth
Dear bushie chickenhawks...we are still waiting for you cowards to join up and go fight your own wars...or at least be willing to pay for them
I`m sorry I don`t get it when you guys think that all Texans are the same. I am a Texan and I could care less for the Bush/Cheney administration. Those two idiots just make us look just plain old dumb.
I know that you all think that we all think like bush, but your wrong, I dind`t vote for the devil, the process that put him in the white house was fixed and all that I know for sure is that the people I assicate with all live in Texas and they also did not vote for the dumb ass.

Thank you very much.

BIGOLDTEXAN
I sure will be jerry. I agree with you on that one but it is a hypothetical that I don't think would ever happen -- jerry said "There are going to be some ticked off liberals if Hillary wins and she orders an attack on Iran."
All diplomacy tools look like a war hammer to Bush. Please Hillary, don't enable the psychopath.
Wow, I see the Liberal mob must have been feeding all weekend on their own BS and are out in force to squash anyone that’s not spouting the liberal talking points.  It’s both funny and sad to think there are this many people with sponges for brains.  I bet you Lefties would have made a great group of brown shirts in a different day and age.  
Pat you are wasting your time trying to educate Jerry because he and tricky Dick Cheney are the only ones who believe that Iraq attacked us.
Dan G. and Jerry - Democrats are the true patriots who care about this country because we don't want to see it obliterated by right-wing nut jobs like you who see the world in your own right-wing christian fundamentalist microcosmic black and wight bible beating evangalic way.  We are the true stewards of freedom and liberty...words the right wing consider four letter words these days.  Hillary is the only smart candidate who knows how to get us on the right track after we've been on the wrong one for the past 7 years thanks to people like you who continue to support Bush, Cheney, the Repubican candidates, and the Fox News mentality.  
All Texans are pig headed bigots, all Californians are wacky liberals, and the only good Indian (Iraqi/Iranian) is a dead Indian. Man I thought we'd gotten past this ignorant mode of thinking.
Pat you’re scary.  Also, you have no idea as to who I am or what I believe.  Your brain washed mind needs some Prozac.
So, again Dan, Mr. I'm in love with the G-man wearing panty hose, what is your point on anything that requires intelligence and basic spelling? We already know you're a moron Dan, and possibly gay too. Are we close?
Hi Dan G. .. I hope you had a nice weekend .. i see you and Jerry the sole GOP survivors are still hoping for a miracle ... I think I should point out that GOP's are now attacking other GOP's ... not a good thing Dan for the right wing but a great thing for us liberals.
Democrats are the true patriots who care about this country because we don't want to see it obliterated by right-wing nut jobs like you who see the world in your own right-wing christian fundamentalist microcosmic black and wight bible beating evangalic way.  We are the true stewards of freedom and liberty...


Now this is humor.  Democrats are this?  The keepers of Political Correctness?  The ones that keep our freedom by taxing the air we breath (I, know you're not there is yet, but you're working on it)?  The ones that define what "fair" means?

The defintion of Freedom to a Democrat is when you finally agree to do what they tell you to do after they have brow-beat you into submission.

Also, keep the comedy coming.  Good stuff.
THE RESURRECTION OF IMUS: RETURNS ON NATION'S TOP TALK STATION
Mon Oct 15 2007 07:52:30 ET



The stunning comeback is a defeat for those who protested and picketed Imus earlier this year.

Imus is said to be particularly incensed by Senator Hillary Clinton's "shameless exploitation" of the Rutgers situation.

The senator, who Imus has called "satan" and the "devil", traveled to Rutgers in April


"Hillary, prepare to meet your maker!" a source close to the host joked early Monday.

Station executives are still tinkering with the new schedule at WABC, which will likely see current morning jock Curtis Sliwa paired with late morning's John Gambling.

Imus will be interviewed by Barbara Walters for a coming special.

Developing...

http://drudgereport.com/flashir.htm

He has never liked her and like him or not he has will will probably have a huge audience....this COULD be interesting
Wow - just looking at the personal attacks on this thread.  Most, if not all, are from the Left.  This the "Freedom" you are talking about Pat?
As usual, and as has happened in the past, someone, and I'm not saying who, but someone has misappropriated my name on this posting to portray me as irrational and meanspirited.  The comments preceding this one are not from the real "Pat" from Huntington, NY, who has posted on prior days.  While I am indeed a democrat who supports Hillary, my views are not so draconian as the ones improperly attributed to me  by the imposter who wrote them.  So, who ever is doing this, STOP!
As usual, and as has happened in the past, someone, and I'm not saying who, but someone has misappropriated my name on this posting to portray me as irrational and meanspirited.  The comments preceding this one are not from the real "Pat" from Huntington, NY, who has posted on prior days.  While I am indeed a democrat who supports Hillary, my views are not so draconian as the ones improperly attributed to me  by the imposter who wrote them.  So, who ever is doing this, STOP!
So, again Dan, Mr. I'm in love with the G-man wearing panty hose, what is your point on anything that requires intelligence and basic spelling? We already know you're a moron Dan, and possibly gay too. Are we close?
bb (Sent Monday, October 15, 2007 12:03 PM)
bb does that stand for beasty boy?  It seems your are always the one with the G-string fetish.  I bet you’re really a Log Cabin Republican and just won’t admit it.  Maybe you should hook up with Ricardo.
Someone defined Hillary as "smart"?  For such a smart person, she sure gets fooled a lot by both the Republicans and her husband.

Smart is not the first word that comes to mind when Hillary's name pops up. Naive, cunning, and self-righteous better describe Hillary.
BIGOLTEXAN- It's just an easy target - most posters here that are in Texas sound as empty headed as the Texas sky is big, but I (and everyone else) knows there are a lot of fine people in Texas.


"We really should invite the Iranians to tea so we can discuss our differences."

What for, BushCo? We should just start to nuke them, and find out later 50% hate their president, JUST LIKE HERE!

Count them again, Mary, and NICE WHINING!
Oh how the liberals fear the G-man.  Look how they cackle and scurry about like chickens with their heads cut off.  Much like by youth in Cuba with an axe in my hand and a crate full of chickens I knew what the outcome would be.  Just like I know Rudy will cut off the head of the Hillary beast and through it to the dogs.
PRO WAR VOTES:
(This is a list of votes FOR WAR)

Obama   0/2  good judgement
Paul    0/2  a Republican with sense
Edwards 1/2  he apologized for his vote
Biden   1/2  ho hum
Dodd    1/2  see above
McCain  2/2  bomb, bomb Iran
Clinton 2/2  peas in a pod

QUESTION: What is the difference between pro-war McCain and Pro-war Clinton ?

QUESTION: What is the difference between pro-war Guiliani or pro-war Romney or pro-war Thompson
and pro-war Clinton ?

Question: What is the difference between pro-war Bush and pro-war Clinton ?

TheY both wanted to attack Iraq, theY both want 'victory in Iraq', theY both want to attack Iran.
What is the difference ?

QUESTION: Who are the anti-war candidates ?

QUESTION: Why vote for a pro-war candidate ?
YES! Mary, the dems are fighting back. Tough s--- for you and all repubs. FREEDOM!!!!!
Stanley, Westchester, NY'...to portray Democratic candidates as being weak on national defense, and terrorism.
Seems to me somebody's pissed that Hillary just took that right off the table!...'

By voting for war with Iran ?
Yeah, Merle maybe anti-war Democrats are pissed.
What DOES HILLARY STAND FOR ?
War and the nec-con agenda ?
A bigger military ?
an endless 'war of terrorism ?

That's jsut great ?
Do you expect Hillary to get anti-war votes ?
Dan are you an illegal? Watch out or your own party will be dragging your butt back to Cuba. Better not write online anymore either or somebodys gonna catch you and send you back.
"Oh how the liberals fear the G-man. "

Congratulations on moving up to the position of most deluded, easiest to skip poster.
The U.S.A is dead.
The U.K.A is born. U.K.A = United Kingdom of America
A dynasty and a monarchy familly business with:

Bush King I- Clinton King I- Bush King II- Clinton Queen I.

Polls show that either Princess Chelsea or Princess Jenna or Barbara Bush will be the next Queen in the U.K.A.

It looks like a third world political system... doesn''t it ?

Jerry, hilliary sounds more and more atuned to your issues than the libs and radical left maybe you should vote for her .She stands up for marriage better than rudy too.You know you agree with her more than with your canidates,you always point out how the left should be upset with her ,then in return I think the righty tighties should love her.
If you want Hillary Clinton to listen, pull the plug on funding, write to her campaign and oppose the rattling of sabres towards Iran. We don't need the war we have, the hawks or the macho attitudes that always get us into trouble, much less a war with Iran. Iran should be publicly ignored, while watching them closely behind the scenes, using diplomacy (what a concept!!!) to keep them from doing something stupid like causing a war and/or producing nukes. The Bush policy is to wave and rattle as many sabres as possible and then use that noise as proof of the opponents' aggression. Clinton needs to not only abandon that strategy but also provide the diplomacy sore missing from George's policy. Looking like a Bush-lite is doing nothing to endear her to the majority of people in her own party.
Ricardo in California, Jerry is going to borrow his hero Julia Anna's dress for Holloween.  


PJ, the problem is we have not gotten beyond that kind of thinking.  It is much more easy to generalize than it is to think, much easier to vote for a candidate who has a familiar name than listen to one who doesn't and it is much easier to spew hate than it is to find a reasoned opinion.  We have lowered our political dialogue to the lowest common denominator; we attack before we are done listening to what our opponents have to say and we have started to believe the ones who can paint the worst picture of their opponents are the most intelligent.  There is a difference between satire, sardonicism and outright name-calling; there is a difference between debating and name-calling; there is a difference between nuance and just throwing out statistics and facts to prove a point; there is a difference between respecting your opponent and hating everyone who disagrees with you.  However, I don't think many people see much difference anymore.  Maybe that is why it is called "dumbing-down"
Dan are you an illegal? Watch out or your own party will be dragging your butt back to Cuba. Better not write online anymore either or somebodys gonna catch you and send you back.
G (Sent Monday, October 15, 2007 12:47 PM)

Wow, all the hot air and not one mention of my two typos - I'm shocked.  Boy that’s enough hot air to fill up two inner tubes should I need them:)
Hillary is NOT going to attack Iran. Why? Because most even half rational human beings know this is retarded. She will also get us out of Iraq. Why? Because shes an antiwar democrat, thats why.
".....I don't know about you but I think we need a candidate that intends to get us out of iraq and try some diplomacy before we start killing more people, and that sure as hell ain't hillary, you guy's going to start defending clinton because she is showing her true neo-con beliefs, what ever
MK,MO (Sent Monday, October 15, 2007 9:52 AM)....."

MK..."liberal" doesn't necessarily mean pacifist or "weak on national defense."
Hillary hasn't said she would attack anybody, for as much as you try to make it look as though she did.
What she did in fact say, was that there should be some certain pre-conditions in place before we sit down and talk to countries that have traditionally been "hostile" to The U.S. in the past...and, I agree with her.
Being liberal does not mean that we have to sell our country out to islamic extremeists, nor does it mean we should sell ourselves short when it comes to national defense.

So J. Merle......

are you saying FDR was weak on defense before WW2 because the pacifist mindset of the country then?

As we have learned from the United Nations and all their little resoultions and such, Iran doesn't care and won't even have a talk about their Nuclear program.  By the time everyone passes their little laws and resolutions and such, Iran will have the bomb and threaten to take out their neighbors as well as Israel.  The we will have to destro Iran.  I just hope it is not Hillary, not because she is a woman (like all you libs think) but because she has no stomach for war


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