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Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Border fence: Made in China?

Posted: Thursday, October 18, 2007 4:17 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

From NBC's Mike Viqueira
Leading members of the Congressional Steel Caucus have revealed that Chinese-made pipe and tube are being used to construct the congressionally mandated fence along the border with Mexico. They are demanding that something be done to ensure that American made products are used instead.

"It is outrageous, offensive, and unacceptable," says Rep. Jason Altmire (D-western PA). "If they are going to build this with steel it should be U.S. steel. No exceptions," said Rep. Phil English (R-western PA), who added that there are firms in his district that would love to supply materials for building the fence. English calls the barrier a "Great Wall of China."

The assembled members displayed a photograph of the fence -- only a small portion of which has been completed to date -- with piping that is clearly marked, "China." They say it was given to them by union activists, and that after seeing it, the members confirmed with the Department of Homeland Security that the government was indeed using Chinese-made pipe and tube. Not only that, DHS waived the "buy American" requirement written into the law that authorized construction.

It's not a matter of price, they say, but of national and economic security -- and also of quality. "They don't make safe toys," says Rep. Pete Visclosky (D-IN). "We ought to have a quality fence." Visclosky has asked DHS Secretary Chertoff to come to Congress and testify on the issue.

Presidential hopeful and critic of China Rep. Duncan Hunter was also on hand. He pointed out that of the 854 miles of barriers authorized by Congress a year ago, only five miles of double fencing and 70 miles of single fencing have so far been constructed.

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Illegals are sneaking in everyday. Why spending lengthly argument on fence material? Put up the fence first and force Chinese buy more American products before we pay them, or they will have to absorb some illegals to their country.
china should be blacklisted. who knows what kind of shortcuts and poor quality materials they have been using and for how long. as for unions, good for the union members, not so good for the american consumer. with all of the strikes wanting more pay and more benefits (who can blame them?) it drives the cost of thier products up. no wonder so many products are imported. china figured this out years ago and have been taking advantage ever since. watch what you buy!!!!
This is to Peter in kansas. So your dealing with your company outsourcing with no problems? Just wait till you get your last paycheck as your company closes its doors here for good then who will be the crybaby!?!  Global competition? How about the systematic rape of America, as far as your tax dollars go, the illegals using our system is where it is going instead of helping the legal citizens. P.S. This is for Allie also in Kansas. Not all americans are from immigrant stock! I am Native American. Any kind of fence is better than no fence at all!  did you know the Mexican army has been making incursions into the U.S. escorting illegals AND drugrunners? that is an act of war! then Vincente Fox has the "BALLS" to come here and protest the "Fence" as being an unfriendly thing to build!
It's funny.  We bailed out the S&L's, and the Airlines, and the farmers, but fail to bail out or protect the basic industry that made this country what it is, as well as other manufacturing capacity that would have made us stronger today as well as in the future.

In my book, it's treason.

Someone has setup this country to fail miserably the next time we need to have a massive industrial push.  

What happens if we actually have to protect the country against a meteor, or construct thousands of miles of sea barriers, or produce billions of bullets a day for a future war?  We are screwed.  That is what happens.  You tink we can call china or japan and say, gimme 500 ingots tomorrow?  Not if they need it first.

Loseing the capacity to research, prototype and build on a massive scale is like losing the ability to feed your people during a drought because you sold the grain silo's.
The steel workers union distroyed american steel just like the teachers union is distroying american education.
Hmmmm, fence posts made in China...I'll bet they're painted with lead paint!!
There you go again, "everybody blame Bush bandwagon."    The Fair Trade Act started under the  Clinton administration.    
What is the point of all of this anyway. Bush no more cares about the people, our opions or health and well being than the day he was first elected. If you don't believe as he does, it falls on deaf ears, or at least ignorant ears. Mexico, China, Iraq only foreign policy matters to him.
What kind of fence are we constructing? A woven-wire one like in my backyard or a real one? My dogs can get through mine, how long is this fence going to last on the Mexican border? Why not a "real" fence, one that cannot be penetrated, and let's get the Chinese out of the mix. Why not just pay the Mexican government to erect it and see how long it takes with the would-be illegals doing the work instead of coming across.  The last was a joke, but so is the whole Bush administration. If this country cannot elect a Democrat to get rid of the corrupt Republicans the next election cycle, then about all I can opine is that we deserve what we get from Washington.
American steel.. chinese steel..who cares, just build the fence. Make it long, make it tall, make it soon.Without it were all finished.
On the good side, there are only 17 more months of this lunacy to endure . . .

With considerable help from willing Republicans, the sneaky weasels who control most of our great nation's corporations have embarked on a grand scheme to downsize and outsource virtually everything done in our country, with consequences that are becoming more obvious every day . . .

Yet, even though each person knows about it in one way or another, none of the information is easy to find, since much of it is disguised and hidden in what once were reasonably reliable economic data . . .

For example, consider the employment data coming from the Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics, which appears to indicate that the country is very near to full employment . . .

The problem is that by definition workers are removed from the labor force the instant they stop looking for work. So, because there is no work and people simply stop looking, they are no longer counted as being part of the formally defined "labor force", which paints a false picture of reality. The numbers appear to look great, but the reality continues to worsen . . .

Slowly but surely, the sneaky weasels are enriching themselves and their cohorts at the great expense of the common folk, and their strategy is as devious as it is simple . . .

When a company downsizes and outsources, temporarily its costs of production are dramatically lowered, which makes more money available in the short run.  This extra money then is paid to executives and their cohorts via a combination of stock awards, bonuses, and special consulting contracts, all of which for the most part go unnoticed by stockholders, since on paper it appears that the company is doing well . . .

This can continue for quite a few years, but sooner or later there are consequences, as can be seen very clearly in the recall of over 20 million toys by Mattel and its Fisher-Price unit, neither of which actually has the ability to manufacture toys, since they closed all their US manufacturing plants and gave all their US workers pink slips years ago . . .

For another example, consider The Boeing Company and its new globalized 787 Dreamliner, which is only assembled (not manufactured) in the US . . .

Various parts of the airplane are made in a range of foreign countries, including Canada, China, Italy, and Japan, with these parts then being flown to the US for assembly, all of which might look marvelous on paper but does not look so great when the parts arrive in Seattle and everyone discovers that the foreign manufacturers changed some of the specifications and materials, which has the consequence of none of the parts actually fitting together . . .

Sadly, everything will become much worse before it gets better . . .

Mostly, it is a matter of gross lack of vision, since manufacturing jobs in our great nation have the amazing consequence of improving the economy dramatically, since when everyone has a job, everyone has money to spend . . .

The sneaky weasels simply do not understand this basic reality of economics.  Instead, the only thing the sneaky weasels understand is deception and trickery, neither of which works very well over the long run . . .

Thanks!

JD
I like that last idea. why don't we hire Mexico to build the wall. They need the money and our elected officials love to give it to foreigners.
It almost makes you want to say, "Ahh, what's the use?"

I agree with Ken S.  We keep throwing away our liberties and surrendering our control to greedy, power-hungry millionaires -- all so they can keep us "safe".

We've been suckered.  Again.  NOW what?
Homeland Security is the biggest Tax Payer Expense yet. Please read STOPSPP.com This is a Conspiracy from the Bush Administration on down. All Americans are going to loose in the end. The Borders are still wide open for Business. Trucking Companys first and then the Highway Thru Oklahoma. The Bush Administration has sold out America to Canada and Mexico by the way of NAFTA which was from Bill Clinton. Why anyone would now elect Hillary Clinton to Office needs their head examined. We should put the Military on the Border and permanently shut the Border down. No more Drugs and Diseases or Illegals entering the USA. Bush is Criminal and Corrupt along with the Administration.
The contractors should be obligated to use the best materials they can find. Unfortunately for us, the Chinese steel is better than anything produced here for the same price.

I'd rather have that fence built well with good materials versus built well with bad materials.
no one in the government is serious in putting up the fence.that is why there is a made in china leak.
be a patriot, buy americans , use american steels.use
american made machineries ,don't use imported oil for transportation,be self reliance,be true patriots.
Shame on you ali, he said "illegals", and yet you referred to all immigrants. I wonder when people are going to realize that there is a difference.

I personally think our government sucks right now and NONE of the 2008 canidates are showing that they are going to make it any better.

When are we going to get someone that has the balls to actually fix border security, get rid of NAFTA, balance out our import and export, and get rid of riders that are slipped onto bills that have nothing to do with the bill at all.

We now have a government that is not afraid of the people, they do not care what they do because they know that no matter what they do people will vote along party lines.
Many signs above the expressway in Mi. fell an killing
at least one person, the State had to replace all bolts,
made in China, had to be replaced across the State!
Use a drill bit from China, maybe once or twice on steel
an it will become a steel rod with two straight groves .
My Grandfathers tools I still use, try Chinese tools,not
even American Standards. I can't wear their cloths long with out the buttons popping off in less than
three Mo. yes, they are cheep, but you get what you
pay for. Just look at the all the recalls from china!

when it comes to safety, (from experience,) trust me,
Do not by any items from China, if you life may depend
on it or some one you may love!  
 
Might as well not even build the fence if they can't do any better than use steel imported from China for building it! What's the point if it is going to rust twice as fast as an American steel fence? I won't be wasting money on Chinese made ANYTHING because of it wearing out too soon. Why is the government wasting taxpayer money buying shoddy imported fence material? Cheaper isn't any bargain if it has to be replaced a lot more often than buying quality to start with!
I haven't got much to say to you bums out sourcing all things that made America great. But I'll tell you if I was in charge of this country 70% of everything used or consumed would have an American seal on it.
I haven't got much to say to you bums out sourcing all things that made America great. But I'll tell you if I was in charge of this country 70% of everything used or consumed would have an American seal on it.
DHS complies with the Buy American Act.  All subcontractors comply with the Buy American act.  The Act requires the value of American made components to be more than 50 percent of the total components in the project.  In this case about 10 percent of the poles used were made in China.  Months ago DHS contacted the contractor regarding use of Chinese steel and the subcontractor asked his supplier not to send him any more.  About 60 of 700 poles on the project are marked "made in China".  This story would lead you to believe 1)all of the steel used is Chinese, 2)DHS isn't complying with the Buy American act and 3)DHS isn't committed to securing our nation's border -- none of which are true.  It's important not to let facts get in the way of a good yarn.
This is TOO much.  I love my COUNTRY but I want a SECURE BORDER and am STUNNED that any government contracts are being filled using foreign goods.  This is yet another straw in our back that I thought had it's fill again and again.

I know a few companies that deal in steal and had such a hard time getting any because it was ALL OVER IN CHINA that the price they could get quality product was prohibitive for their manufacturing needs...do we NOT realize we are leaving the barn door OPEN and throwing kindling on the fire!

I am throwing my support behind DUNCAN HUNTER!

He mandated this fence is the only candidate BRINGING the CHINESE issues to light!  Pay attention people...WE NEED a manufacturing base here in the states.  GOD forbid if we need to actually BUILD a defensive armament...do we realize the age of some of our ships/planes etc???
Why there are so many losers still want to keep steel mills in the US?
To "a real citizen" -- let me guess a real citizen is white, protestant (neo-theo types), male, lives in a trailer court, drinks Sclitz, chews Skoal and barely speaks correct English!  How many real citizens do you see picking fruit, serving meals, cleaning hotel rooms, cleaning YOUR toilets, cutting YOUR grass (opps got that one wrong), chopping down your weeds and the list goes on and on.  Illegals are not sucking the blood out of this country.  Think Iraq, Bush and "real" citizens like you!
Putting up this fence is a lot like making a chain link swimming pool; it just won't give the desired results. Maybe if we were trying to keep dogs or cows out a fence would work but a person will climb, tunnel under or go around the fence, this is a stupid waste of money. To argue over whose steel we should waste money on is just about as stupid. If you want to stop the problem enforce the laws we have.
What happens after the fence is built and then there is a recall?
All you people who want to help a communist country keep wages low for their people and to build a healthy economy should move to said communist country for work. You would be told where to live ,how many children you could have, who to vote for (oh yeah you do that already), watch corruption grow( oh yeah you do that to). I am so suprised that you Rebums support communism, aren't they the enemies of democracy?
itiful. A DHS sanctioned Mexican Border fence "MADE IN CHINA". You people in Congress, the Senate, and the President had better wake up to what the Chinese are actually doing. Do you realize that there exists a SHORTAGE OF AMMUNITION for our Military fighting an "UNDECLARED WAR" (thanks to the wimps afraid to call the Afghanistan and Iraq "conflicts" WARS? TOur "frindes" THE CHINESE ARE IN CHARGE OF MAKING OUR BULLETS AND AMMUNITION -isn't there ANY COMPANY LEFT IN AMERICA to produce decent ammunition? We have allowed the Chinese to take us over to the extent that they now HOLD THE DOLLAR HOSTAGE. They DELIBERATELY imported the chemical that makes TRANSMISSION FLUID - which is POISONOUS, from IRAN, thenRELABELED IT AS GLYCERINE, and EXPORTED THE "GLYCERINE" to the US and other unsuspecting countries; result-DEATH BY POISON in ANY product made with the ingredient - such as TOOTHPASTE, COUGH SYRUPS, (did you know about the RECALL of Cough syrup yeterday?????NO REASON WAS GIVEN - how embarrassing for the Un-united State of America's FDA to be unable to IDENTIFY WHICH products are safe without someone- our children - having to die first.
Folks, this is only the tip of the iceberg. BRING OUR FORMER GREAT AMERICAN PRODUCERS BACK - you are right - we are looking for QUALITY - the CHINESE have an agenda to destroy us from within and they are succeeding. AND YOU ARE DOING NOTHING ABOUT IT> The only reason I can think of that the CHINESE have NOT PULLED THE FINANCIAL PLUG on the US is because of the upcoming OLYMPICS which, they are hosting - and THAT IN ITSELF is an ATROCITY. Do you really think they are going to produce the quality ammunition  those idiots who are ordering from them expect? They are too busy cintaminating our toys and products with LEAD than to make us bullets to help "win" the "UNDECLARED WAR"
Now for the "fence"....how stupid. Think about it - common sense if there is anyone left with same - these illegals come into this country and is  not smuggling drugs, may end up as crop "workers". THEY KNOW OE TO DIG A HOLE OR TUNNEL UNDER THE FENCE! Why bother? Like another reader said - patrol it, and shoot to kill. They are bringing death to our medical facilities with incurable T.B. and Staph infections resistant to antibiotics. Thise traitorous "Americans" who "employee them should be rrested and jailed for facilitating the problem. So, what do we do instead? We send a couple of brave Americans on patrol to JAIL for doing their duty and apprhending the illegals as they were crossing our border. ALL AMERICANS - DON'T GIVE UP, WE STILL HAVE THE POWER TO STOP BUYING CHINESE PROCESSED AND MANUFACTURED GOODS. HIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS - IN THE MONEY. ALSO, BOYCOTT THEIR OLYMPICS!!!! THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES HAVE BEEN OVERLOOKED BY THE WORLD GOVTS. BUT NOTHING HAS CHANGED. They are feeding their all-important Military( I wonder if THEY have OUR BULLETS?)their own citizens female baby meat. The middle and lower class people get to eat "hamburger" chemically processed from CARDBOARD! STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT AND SEND THEM A STRONG MESSAGE - it is obvious that they already "own" our government.
We should not use steel made in China to build these fences for security reasons because they will collapse when Chinese illegal immigrants try to cross them.
"Putting up this fence is a lot like making a chain link swimming pool; it just won't give the desired results. Maybe if we were trying to keep dogs or cows out a fence would work but a person will climb, tunnel under or go around the fence, this is a stupid waste of money. To argue over whose steel we should waste money on is just about as stupid. If you want to stop the problem enforce the laws we have.
Bob Kokomo IN"

Wrong Bob!  It will keep out some of the illegals--the really stupid ones--you know, the illegals who are also republicans.
"There you go again, "everybody blame Bush bandwagon."    The Fair Trade Act started under the  Clinton administration."

I knew it! Clinton did it! I knew the "everybody blame Clinton" bandwagon would be back!
EVERYONE WHO SUPPORTS THIS TREASON MUST BE IMMEDIATELY ARRESTED AND TORTURED TO DEATH IN GITMO. THIS IS WAR. PIRATE NEWS DOT ORG OVER AND OUT.
You can be assured there is one Washington self serving paper hanger involved with the contractors. and thus our industries will suffer!

Made in America, the world is laughing at us ""not with us""
These materials were awarded by the Army Corp of Engineers on a site called Fed Biz.  Our company bid American made products for these jobs and lost the bid -- it always goes to the lowest bidder.  Interesting that when companies "play by the rules" and try to sell American, we don't get the jobs.  Pres. Bush has nothing to do with this.  I think we need to quit blaming every little thing on our President.  Yes, there have been things done I am not totally in agreement with, but to blame the President for a materials award done by the Army Corp is pretty ridiculous.  The specifications written by the Army Corp to get these bids need to be changed to read "only 100% American made materials" and then the products from China will not be put into these jobs.  It is spec and low bid driven. Specs allow 10% not American made.  Let's change the specifications and we will get all American made.  That is how the game works.
A sure sign of the lack of intelligence is a ludicrous argument, and there's a bunch right here.  Do you seriously think that the President of the United States works at this level of detail? It's not like he's working his ranch. "President Bush, about that fence you told us to build this morning, can we use Chinese steel?" But, you call yourselves Bush-haters??? The biggest Bush-hater I know of ended up blaming the President for Brett Favre's record-setting interceptions a couple weeks ago. Now that's serious hate!! Your mother must be proud.
Just like the toll road that are going to be build in Texas. Most things in the U.S.A. are build somewhere else. Just think were this will leave us.
American Workers used to be the highest Paid in the World, when there were 35% Union Workers. These Union Workers also set the wage rate for Non-Union Workers. With the single digit % of American Union Workers now, American Workers are nowhere near being the Top Paid anymore. Unions were a balance against Corporations. Now the Corporations Rule, and American Workers are paid less than when I worked in a Union Plant 25 years ago. i.e., Autoworkers in Germany make more than $10/hour higher than American Autoworkers. They also have 6 weeks paid vacation, and their Stock Market has higher returns than the US Stock Markets. Their Taxes are higher, but they pay no Health Insurance Fees and if they lose their job they have long-term unemployment insurance. Wake Up America! 30 Years of Republican, and Democratic/Republican Rule has turned America into a declining, second rate Country.
American Workers used to be the highest Paid in the World, when there were 35% Union Workers. These Union Workers also set the wage rate for Non-Union Workers. With the single digit % of American Union Workers now, American Workers are nowhere near being the Top Paid anymore. Unions were a balance against Corporations. Now the Corporations Rule, and American Workers are paid less than when I worked in a Union Plant 25 years ago. i.e., Autoworkers in Germany make more than $10/hour higher than American Autoworkers. They also have 6 weeks paid vacation, and their Stock Market has higher returns than the US Stock Markets. Their Taxes are higher, but they pay no Health Insurance Fees and if they lose their job they have long-term unemployment insurance. Wake Up America! 30 Years of Republican, and Democratic/Republican Rule has turned America into a declining, second rate Country.
Lots of good insights on this page; some incredibly ignorant, also. It's all economics, folks, and the world can be divided into the NEEDY and the GREEDY. Carlos Slim Hui, Lebanese Mexican billionaire, has $.12 of every dollar GDP in Mexico; the rest of the peons live on $5 a day, average. China is still communist--and a lot of our monies are going into their war machine--but they are going through a huge period of entreprenurial capitalism, complete with no labor laws and many sweatshops--that precisely parallels one in American history. Small contractors, lax controls and inspections. Now, add this to the greed of rich Americans like the Walton family, importers and distributors, and many others, like big stockholders, who reward their executives obscene salaries and perks for performance, regardless of  who--employees or consumers(it ends up including both)-- suffer. Want to cure the Mexican problem? Smuggle arms into Mexico, because only the army and the drug lords possess them. Then they would overthrow their government within a week,take Slim's $159,000,000,000. and distribute it among the people. Our problems will be cured only if each and every person in this POTENTIALLY great country who can aise his or her lazy butt from off the TV couch or bar stool will become an activist. March, carry signs, speak vigorously with conviction, and VOTE! How about a citizens' referendum on impeachment, state by state, and carried out within each individual state,  based on performance?    
Gee, anyone wonder if that Chinese steel might be contaminated with lead(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21677670/ , http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21698637/) or even coated with GHB, the date rape drug (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21678196/)? Some fringe group might sue on the pretext that any illegals crossing the fence could be poisoned if they somehow LICKED the fence.
"It's not a matter of price, they say, but of national and economic security -- and also of quality."
Well, if it comes from China, it better have good quality. They should run some checks on the stuff to make sure the Chinese arnt trying to kill us with their lead! Kidding!:)They should be concerned with the price though. How much is this fence supposed to cost? Alot!


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