the insurance lobbyist have bought and paid for the repubs and have them in their back pockets, they should all be ashamed of victimizing sick and needy kids but they aren't, they are proud to screw innocent victims.  IMPEACH THE WHOLE BUNCH THEN TRY, CONVICT AND LOCK THEM ALL UP FOR CHILD ABUSE.

What was that statement Spiro used?  "...an effete group of impudent (impotent) snobs."  Congress under Democratic leadership can't even deliver the budget bills prior to the end of the fiscal year.  Vote ALL of them out.  What a useless bunch of overpaid, underperforming whiney butts.

The SCHIP vote shows to what extent the GOP is ruled from the top down and will follow the leader no matter what.  Republicans like to point out Bush isn't on the ballot next year, but the whole party has worked as a unit and deserves to be judged as such.

Very easy way to end this debate on SCHIP:

vote on President Bush's plan and fund it on the federal end.....
Let the states add to the total to cover what the states need to cover their own citizens.

Very simple
once again, common sense wins.

The corrective action is not necessarily to vote out the whole bunch but instead, to increase the Democratic majority to a veto proof one...the real problem here is not the Dems, but instead, the obstructionist Republicans, and their evil hatemongering president.  Bush really doesn't care about the children.  If he did, he'ld sign the SCHIP law.  But based on Republican lies about what that law would really do - provide insurance for children who's parents jobs don't insure them but make too much to qualify for Medicare but not enough to pay for their own - we've gone backwards...AND please! This was not socialized medicine, nor a precursor of socialized medicine [as if that would be a bad thing!]  It would merely expand the scope of Medicare coverage.  So, if people say its socialized medicine, I assume these same peopel would call for the end of all MEdicare and MEdicaid programs.  While we're at it, lets end Social SEcurity, all welfare programs, and all health funded programs.  Lets go back to the days of Hoover! Obviously that's what rethuglicans want. Whatever.

Paul, the GOP didn't deliver all the budget bills prior to the end of the fiscal year, and this year passed the whole mess on to the incoming Dems without doing anything.  They're actually working 2 budgets this year.  Do you really want to compare useless, overpaid, underperforming whiney butts?

Worst congress in history!!!! They have done one good thing. Thanks to their Stalinist neo-commie crimes against Americans over 4 million dollars is on it's way to Scholarship assistance to children of Marines and Federal law enforcement personnel whose parent dies on duty.


Thanks Harry!!!!

Looks like the north east will have to find someone other than smokers in the south and mid west to support their corrupt union infested over paid, over taxed, everyone looking to get out lifestyles.

Having Pete Stark making his little speech did not help the democrats on all during the SCHIP debate yesterday.  makes the democrats look like a bunch of overdosed drug addicts.

By the way, why on earth would San Francisco want to open up a drug house so people can do drugs?  I thought that was against the law?  But then again. it's in Pete Stark's area, so it doesn't surprise me.

West coast---do drugs shoot up and get high
east coast---give 11 year old girls birth control

I hope the Midwest sticks to a theme of family, god and normal values.

As a smoker, i don't care if the schip is funded with a tax on my vice, so what, maybe I'll quit smoking, that would be a good outcome in all of this. Boy, you people in the south must really hate good paying union jobs in favor of what, low paying jobs without insurance, no protection of arbitrary firing, unsafe work areas. What is wrong with americans making good wages? Your fight is not with other working americans, your anger should be focused on the politicians that make it easy for corporate america to exploit you.

Jerry - "I hope the Midwest sticks to a theme of family, god and normal values"

Yeah, whatever, you mean the bible beating hate mongering culture war waged by the rethuglicans you salivate over.  Keep it to yourself.

If the corrupt unions with their lazy people hadn't driven the steel industry into oblivion.....

They would not have to build the fence with Chinese steel.

Yeah, Jerry, normal midwest values.  Just stay outta airport crappers, willya?

Pat LOL:

At least we know where your values lie LOL.

I'll stick to family values instead of the lying by your candidate, encouraging 11 year olds to have sex on the east coast, and getting high on the west coast.

"Torture: An act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person, for a purpose such as obtaining information or a confession, punishment, intimidation or coercion, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind."
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=33912

http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/11/TortureQandA.htm

There's a one sentence definition of torture for the rightwing.  Waterboarding is torture, which according to Mukasey is unconstitutional.  I say if you want to torture, fine--well not fine, but be honest about what you are doing.  Make you case for why torture is good, instead of lying that you aren't doing it.  And that is why the American people don't trust this administration or the Republicans.  So, thank you Mr. President for giving us plausible deniability.

I hope the democrats have the cajones to reject Mr. Mukasey if he cannot answer the question--something I feel is worse than answering incorrectly.  The democrats lack unity.  Make your case that you won't give the president what he wants nor another AG lackey.  The American people want the democrats to stand up, this seems like a pretty good time.  Show Bush that he IS a LAME DUCK president.

Hmmm...family, god and normal values?...Which families would that be?  Rudy's family that no longer speaks to him because of how he treated their mother?  Larry's family that has been embarrassed by his fabulous restroom adventures?  Or the family that found out daddy was using call girls while on the job in DC?  And 'what do you mean by 'normal' values?  I'm thinking that's code for 'white Anglo-Saxon Protestant' values.  The hypocrisy in that statement is truly astounding.  Neither party has the moral purity to hold themselves up as the party of God.  I would argue that the Democrats actually hew a bit closer to the actual red letter passages in the New Testament than the Republicans, but neither are paragons of light and virtue.  Both sides have significant stains on their moral garments, but only one side has tried to hold itself up as the beacon on the hill for God and family.  I think (hope?) that act is finally beginning to wear thin.

Jerry, the heretic who'll burn!

The senate should adopt waterboarding as the official technique for confirmation hearings. One way or another we will find out if it is torture and if it works.

Might be a good idea for Hillary to try that on the investigative team of the L.A. Times LOL.

Awesome nuanced.  A little electrified nutsack anyone?

We missed a great opportunity when we didn't waterboard Scooter Libby!

Face it conservatives, this is all about the "principle" of not having any responsibility for your fellow man.  If they suffer as a result of that it isn't my problem.  If they have kids it's their own fault for not taking care of them.  If my "principle" is costly overall to the society at least it isn't getting into my pocket.  Hey, I pledged $1/mile to that kid who came around soliciting money for the 20 mile walkathon, so I've already done my bit for charity.  Now I feel good about myself because I did something.  It wasn't very much but I'm "principled" and darned if I'm going to let the big, bad government dip into my pockets.  Anyway, there's more important things to pay for, like a trillion dollar war.  The money's all borrowed so my kids and grandkids will have to pay for it, but they'll appreciate that I stood by my "principles".  Anyway, subsidizing peoples' insurance just makes them weak.  Not as weak as an illness that doesn't get treated until they have to go to the emergency room, but that happens sometimes when you have "principles".  I'm glad we're not a country with government coordinated health care.  I pay more than them and the people in 36 of those countries are healthier than people in America, but at least I have "principles".

If Congress had any Nads at all they would lay it on the line for the President by saying not another bill will be presented or passed until you are out of office, Period!  It's been nice doing business with ya, see ya! Let him set on the hill and preach until he turns blue, we're just following your example!

I think the solution to problems nationally and internationally is forced sterilization.  Morally reprehensible, but it gets the job done.  Socialism goes against the grain of natural selection, so if we want a country based on socialism.

A few examples ...  Certainly, a solution to *Breaking Point* of our prisons.  Now there’s a punishment for illegal immigrants (legal ones, okay).  We could reduce class-size in our schools, our education and healthcare systems would be better, and we’d embrace family values.  Most importantly, there should be hard lines as to what is and is not acceptable.  Cruel, hardly.  Unusual, not necessarily.

Please don't take me too seriously here.

Republicans are the Party of God.  They have proven it to me time and time again.  While I do know some very religious people who think for themselves, none of them happens to be a fundmentalist.  The Republicans follow their leader just like fundamentalists follow their pastors who preach a brand of Christianity which has nothing to do with the New Testament.  They are truly the sheep being led by the wolves in sheep's clothing.  I think Matthew 5 must have been left out of their Bibles or they have branded it socialist philosphy.  Voltaire said, "If God did not exist, man would have to create Him".  Well, the fundamentalists and the Republican Party have created their God in man's image and likeness.

Look at all the info available http://www.philanthropy.com/free/articles/v19/i04/04001101.htm the evil conservitives give 30% more to charities than do liberals. Liberals like to give away other peoples money not their own. So until the left will contribute equally to the right lets stop the BS!! GIVE AWAY YOUR OWN MONEY LEAVE MINE ALONE!! I choose where my money goes you have the right to do the same!! So just do it...

Republicans MUST be the party of God!  I've used the name of His son many times when reading or hearing about their programs.  They must also drive too slowly, because I've used His son's name driving behind them many times, too.

Are we drowning in the minutia of fringe actors (the candidates)???

Two news items (today & about a week ago): Comcast blocks some Internet traffic - Online World - MSNBC.com ...... and

Last week--after images of the beatings of Buddhist monks and the killing of a Japanese photographer leaked out via the Internet--Burma's military rulers took the ultimate step, apparently physically disconnecting primary telecommunications cables in two major cities, in a drastic effort to stop the flow of information from Burma to the rest of the world (http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/19474/?a=f).

Disconnected new items? Not the least bit. Comcast is doing the same within the US as the rulers of Myanmar. The only difference is in the objective -  what types of communications does each want to disable.

It seems that we need pass laws to forbid this type of interference, regardless of whether it is by public or private concerns. Alternately, we must start seriously questioning who the leaders of companies such as Comcast are. What are their political views, what are their aims and objectives in terms of influencing America's social, economic and global evolution. These people are in a position of silent control over public, and in fact, private dialogue.

Not good for freedom of speech, nor freedom itself.

Harry reid just spoke on the floor of the senate and surrendered to Rush Limbaugh.....

This is just not the democrats week.......

time to hit the mixers......

Jerry from Corpus pukes:  "I'll stick to family values instead of the lying by your candidate, blah, blah, blah"

How wide is *your* stance, Jerry?

LOL @ you and your mensroom cruising, philandering morally bankrupt Repug overlords!!!

Greg Okc, you are linking us to a highly biased source at the American Enterprise Institute http://www.aei.org/scholars/scholarID.125,filter.all/scholar.asp .  Other interests of the AEI http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Enterprise_Institute include serving as a base for the neocons who have brought us our culture of permanent war, claiming that smoking is not a health threat, criticizing advocacy groups such as the World Wildlife Fund for trying to put limits on destructive corporations who refuse to operate as good citizens, and arguing that there is no global warming.  If you Google Arthur C. Brooks you will see that the references are nearly all either AEI or other groups and publications pushing a conservative agenda.  If you wish to find a credible source look beyond the people who brought us the Project for a New American Century.

Pete Stark went a little overboard, but I would only have edited four words from his entire statement.  He's speaking from frustration and anger. Republicans apparently only care about a baby that is in the womb.  The second it hits the air, it's expected to stand on it's own 2 feet and not dare demand the gov't who might have forced its birth deal with any problems it might have in its life.
THAT'S their idea of compassionate conservatism.  It's what they're conserving it for I can't figure out.
If republicans are so much better on the 'values' issues, how is it that it was a DEMOCRAT who passed the much needed Family Leave Act and it is the republicans who are refusing to insure poor or catastrophically sick or injured children?

John B are the stats wrong?

Don't know about your states but here no child is refused medical care regardless of coverage.
SCHIP profits some parents rather than the children, and of course makes it easier for Hospitals to get their money for services rendered.

Unfortunately the ease of getting that money leads to massive overcharges and un necessary and highly expensive tests and procedures, which if anything hurt the child.

Meantime the proposed expansion of SCHIP will result in rather well off couples chosing to forego their responsibilities to provide health insurance so they can spend the money they save on luxury items or business ventures.
If the states want to extend coverage to families that should be able to afford their own insurance let the individual states fund it. I find it offensive to hear someone complaining that they make too much money, and own too much property so we should pay their way for them.
If you can't make it in New York on 83 grand a year then trade in that Manhattan apartment for something cheaper.

BTW
Our State already passed an extra 40 cent tax per pack on cigarettes to fund a child reading program.

Plus
" it's expected to stand on it's own 2 feet and not dare demand the gov't who might have forced its birth deal with any problems it might have in its life.
"
Forced its Birth?
You people have no concept of personal responsibility at all.

Our state has a program to help expectant mothers with their expenses so they won't be "forced" by circumstance to consider abortion. Liberals have been labeling that "Bribing" the mother.

If you want the Government to "deal with" every problem your offspring may have then you may as well give them up as wards of the state.

Greg Okc, it's impossible to say if the numbers are correct or not.  I can't find any sources that don't cite the work of Arthur C. Brooks.  None of the other projects of the American Enterprise Institute have been above board, however, so it isn't a big stretch to say his findings should be viewed with skepticism.

Wayne, no one said the government should deal with every problem, but why should defend a health care system that's near the bottom of all industrialized countries in terms of outcome while being far more expensive than anything out there?  "Personal responsibility" is nothing but a catch phrase that allows you to not care about your fellow man.

John B: It is not simply the AEI. Brooks work as the Bantle Professor of  Business and Government Policy at Syracuse University has appeared in the Associated Press,CBS and ABC NEWS,REASON[a libertarian as opposed to purely liberal or conservative source],SLATE[liberal],and the largest magazine in America devoted to philanthropic concerns, the nonpartisan Chronicle of Philanthropy.
                                    It would be ABC NEWS ''20/20''[Nov.28,2006],which would use a portion of Brooks theses and put these into action. Placing Salvation Army ''kettles''in two locations in San Francisco and Sioux Falls,one wealthy and liberal,the other poorer and more conservative,the Siouxians won hands down in the unscientific study,while the Friscoites were the tightwads. Brooks  study however,which is in the book ''Who Really Cares?" Basic Books,2006,is indeed scientific and relies upon multiple overlapping sources which can be obtained in the works appendix with/citations. Two of the most powerful non-profit charitable concerns in America? The conservative Salvation Army,and the conservative LDS[ecumenical,as its products also go to Catholic and Protestant missions] Welfare Square/DESERET INDUSTRIES. Brooks is no mere shill. He is peer-reviewed and he has held the following editorial chairs.

Strategic Entrepeneurship Journal

Journal of Policy Analysis and Management

Non-profit and Voluntary Quarterly

State and Local Government Review

Journal of Cultural Economy

"Wayne, no one said the government should deal with every problem, but why should defend a health care system that's near the bottom of all industrialized countries in terms of outcome while being far more expensive than anything out there?  "Personal responsibility" is nothing but a catch phrase that allows you to not care about your fellow man.
John B, Des Moines, IA"
People get sick more often in this country in large part because they don't make the effort to avoid getting sick and when they do get sick they make little or no effort to avoid spreading diseases.
In Asian countries they wear masks during flu season not just to avoid breathing contaminated air but to avoid brething out germs that might infect others.
In this country people seldom bother to cover a cough.

The most abusive and nasty practices are encouraged, and use of condoms among the most vulnerable classes has dropped alarmingly.
How prevalent is HPV in countries that don't push sodomy as an alternative lifestyle?

Its the lifestyle choices of Americans which overload our hospitals. The situation is made worse by hospital employees that care little or nothing for the patients.

Cleaning up our healthcare industry is whats needed, not an avalanche of free money to encourage its continuing decline and relieve people of the responsibilty of looking out for themselves on the most basic levels.

Switzerland found an easy fix for its universal healthcare shortfalls, they just started killing of the elderly and cronically ill. They even expanded the process to allow euthanazia clinics to process foreigners for profit, at least one patient balked at the last minute so they held him down and poured poison down his throat.Holland is even euthanizing for teenage depression.

If you want to put a special tax on one sector of the population then why not tax homosexuals. Gay males  account for 68% of Syphilus infections and Lesbians have STDs which are almost unheard of in the hetrosexual population. AIDS among homosexuals is on the rize again, this accounts for a high percentage of long term care and hospice care.


More government subsidies to medical students could help, as well as subsidies to some hospitals to improve conditions and equipment. These could be long term no interest loans and tax breaks.

PS
You say
" no one said the government should deal with every problem"
The operative phaze in the post I answered was.
"any problems" which I read as any and all or every.

You also say.
" "Personal responsibility" is nothing but a catch phrase "
Maybe it is to you, but some people take personal responsibilty very seriously.

SCHIP is a $35 billion program, originally lowered from some odd $50 billion. As compared to the War on Terror it may not seem like much, but realize the war has gone on for years and that money has collected over time. This bill calls for action in a small time frame and will more than likely cause some problems money wise. Bush has even added a $5 billion raise to it. This is going to come from where? Taxpayer dollars and exisiting government funds. Then there is the idea of government run health care. This means that should somone find it unsuitable or disagree with it, its a take it or leave it offer. Bush has said that there is a plan be developed by Republicans to provide eligibility for all Americans to high-quality health care, in which care is not limited by a gorvenment run budget, or the company, type, or quality is not decided completely decided by the government. I don't know about everyone else but the prospect of good health care eligiblity, and freedom and flexibility when it comes to deciding what health care I want sounds alot better than take it or leave it health care for children; in which there are restricitions and turn downs. Government run health care creeps towards communism, and though it looks good on paper, it doesn't always work in the real world.

The speech given on the House floor by California's Farley "Pete" Stark on the SCHIP issue show exactly what the Democrats are made of, that is, all rhetoric, no facts.  What an embarrassment this man, and the Democratic party is, to the US.  To have someone like this so-called man run down this great country and the miltary is an embarrassment to himself and the Democrats.  Pelosi and the rest of the Dmocratic leadership believe the same things.  They need to be voted out of office asap.

The expansion of SCHIP was not the answer.  

I truly believe that everyone wants the same thing...for all to be insured in the U.S.  However, where do we draw the line?  Why such high income levels and age limits?  At what point SHOULD someone take responsibility for their own coverage, their own bills?  

I've been working since I was 14.  There are many times in my life when I took on more than one job to pay the bills.  You have to do what you have to do.  

If you are an able-bodied American who is of working age, the world, in my opinion, is your oyster.

Also, I have to wonder if some of the thousands of children (we have a wonderful program called All Kids in this state) are not covered because of lack of knowledge of the government resources, procrastination, etc.

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