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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Last night's debate (R)

Posted: Monday, October 22, 2007 9:18 AM by Mark Murray

The Boston Globe’s lead: "The eight Republican candidates for president held a fiery debate last night filled with charges and confrontations about who is a true conservative and "real Republican" as they defended their stands on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, and taxes."

The Los Angeles Times headlines the Thompson-Giuliani skirmishes. And it adds, "With groans and cheers, more than 3,000 spectators in the convention hall punctuated the scrappy back-and-forth among the candidates."

The New York Times: “The debate stood out for the intensity and personal nature of the exchanges, as Republicans tried to distinguish themselves — a tactic that risked highlighting the unhappiness among conservatives with much of the field.”

USA Today adds that the GOP hopefuls “clashed Sunday over one of their party's most basic questions: Who is the most conservative? Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee cited their conservative executive experience, while John McCain and Fred Thompson touted conservative Senate voting records — and all took shots at the presumed Democratic frontrunner.”

The Wall Street Journal: “Indeed, much of the debate was devoted to how the candidates would go about defeating Mrs. Clinton, a Democratic presidential candidate who currently holds a commanding lead in national and early voting state polls.”

The New York Post calls Clinton the “‘roast’ of the town.”

Fred Thompson stood out to the Politico's Martin: "Thompson, showing a degree of passion unseen in his first debate appearance two weeks ago, offered perhaps the toughest charges of the night."

The Des Moines Register’s David Yepsen writes, “McCain had the best night. Rudy Giuliani also turned in a good performance and newcomer Fred Thompson did much better than he did in his first gabfest.” The debate “was especially unlikely to have much impact in New Hampshire, which is big Red Sox territory and where most televisions probably weren’t tuned to politics Sunday night.”
 
And an interesting take on Ron Paul: “Paul isn’t likely to win any of the Republican primaries and caucuses but his message resonates with mainstream voters or Democrats who aren’t rank and file GOP activists. They laugh and hoot at his messages now but come November, if the GOP loses the White House, many Republicans will be saying they should have paid attention to what the man was saying about U.S. military policy, civil liberties and spending.”

So did Fox News win many Democratic friends last night by having a segment that allowed the GOP candidates to take cheap shot after cheap shot at Clinton? That said, the segment only seemed to further the impression of the inevitability of her campaign. As the New York Times pointed out: "This debate makes it official: It’s open season on Hillary Clinton… The amount of time devoted to Mrs. Clinton makes it clear that the Republicans both want her to be the Democratic nominee and think she will be the nominee."

NBC/NJ's Adam Aigner-Treworgy notes that in the post-debate, there were several converts in the crowd who were won over by Fred’s surprising energy. But there were plenty of others who were merely encouraged to “lean” in Thompson’s direction after a performance in which he showed more energy than ever before.

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Comments

What an awful bunch of male human beings. A couple way too full of themselves and the others insecure and lying through their teeth. Not a good apple in the bunch. This independent is voting for the dems.
Wake up America.  Ron Paul is the only one who can beat Hillary.  
http://www.thisnovember5th.com
The people should not be afraid of their government.
These so called morals/values canidates and who they cater to is an oxymoron. Lets see the deep south and the plains states (Red) have the highest divorce rate, teen pregnancies, worst in education, highest unemployment, obesity, highest level of poverty, lowest wages etc...We will show those liberal commies wall street types that voting Republicans is the way to go. Can you say whipped, hoodwinked, punked, gullible, idiotic.....Lets continue to vote against our best interests (the middle class)
Ron Paul will do more than "resonate" in the primary elections.
We are blessed with many freedoms, including the right to vote, so please make your voice heard on primary day - regardless of who you choose to vote for.
I wanted to register as Independent but my state would not let me vote for Dr. Paul in the Primaries without registering as a Republican so that is what I did.

Only a Doctor Can HEAL Our Country And NOT A Lawyer.

DR. RON PAUL 2008
Ron Paul will shock the world when he wins the first primary by a landslide.
The rest will be history - Congradulations President Paul.
how did the hillary do in the republican debates last night? pretty well I should think since she is a war mongering elitist who is caring the rovian political torch with honor, one problem she may encounter is distinguishing herself from the other repub candidates since her policies so closely mimic them. go hillary, we need four more years of what we have now and your just the candidate who can deliver
Juan, Ft Lauderdale, FL way to go Juan!!!  You are on today, good Monday Morn to ya.
Hey how about those Red Sox and Patriots, we had a great weekend in Boston and the foliage is awesome.

If there was Any doubt about where the American terrorist( religous right) stand, the blind's were opened last night when they boo'ed PEACE & cheered bombing school's.Someone posted on another thread how rudy laud's his 911 experience & this poster pointed out That the  attack on new york happened on his Watch.The Real republican's had better wake up before these BIBLE thumping terrorist do any more damage! Boy, did FOX news really show there true color's with there hand picked audience ( If there was any doubt left among the Masses).Sickening, absolutely Sickening!!!!!!!!!!
Ron Paul is the only decent candidate. He is respectful and thoughtful. I will vote for Ron Paul, but no one else. The rest are empty suits.
With Hillary having Neutered the opposition in her party, it was nice last night to see a real debate about real issues and not the cocktail hour like we have been seeing on the democrat side.
real debate about the issues? It was more like more war, I'm the toughie here, ban abortion, I'm the toughest here, I hate gays, I'm the toughest here, I support the troops, I'm the toughest here, I will fight them thar so we don't have to fight them here( actually none of them or their supporters will fight but it sounds good to the chickenhawks in the party)
I remember when the candidates of both parties tried to show that they were middle of the road and not extremists. What has happened? Especially the Republicans are trying to prove how far they can get from the middle. How did our politics get so polarized where no one wants to be a pragmatic moderate and instead try to show how extreme and doctrinaire they are.  Who will forge the compromises and accomodations that are necessary to bring the country together?
"What's so funny about peace, love and understanding" -- Elvis Costello
Hillary has nuetered ALL the other male candidates on both sides... including Jerry and MK. Congrats Hillary! Keep on scaring the wits out of them. She will make a fine president.
The truth today is that we have to be afraid of our government.

We have allowed and encouraged the growth of government to the point that it can take everything we have (including our personal liberty in the name of "security"), whether it provides everything we need or want or not.  What's worse, we're willing to cede even more control over our lives to it (i.e., health care) in the name of "security."

Both parties (and their voters) are equally at fault, and neither has any solution to the problem.  Unfortunately, that appears to include Ron Paul, who disappointed this libertarian constitutionalist with one comment he made which implicitly concedes a Federal role in health care (I can't find one).

All of this means we'll have to be more afraid of our government going forward.  Nobody gets the fact that government is not a benign force.
This Independent will still vote Ron Paul
Let's face it, this year has been the "Year of the Unreal Republicans". I don't Even want to hear another hyperbolic 'Definition' from these Good Old Paternalists.
Seems to me the "Clinton question" was simply intended to pump up the Republican audience, since that is the only rallying cry that gets the crowd motivated. They want to plant the seed in the minds of voters that Senator Clinton IS the nominee of her party hoping that will bring waivering Republicans back to the fold.  They all seem to agree on their dislike for Senator Clinton, so if that's the only unifying factor they have, that's what they exploit!  
 
I am more interested in the positions of each candidate than hearing them criticize each other.  I wish the moderators would not ask questions that only result in candidates taking stabs at each other.  Ask questions that let the people know what their positions on important issues are!
Ron paul seemed like a hysterical sissy. I think he did more to hurt himself in the last half of the debate than anyone could have expected. I have no interest in his put your head in the sand view of international affair.s..
The Republican "debate" on fox news was a farce. With a hand picked audience and Hannity at the helm of poo pahing Ron Pauls' winning Foxs' own debate poll. What a bunch of self serving , full of thenselves candidates. They all qualify for a spot on Mad TV.
The front runners of this sad republican list of candidates can only use the rallying cry to hate Hilary and which of them can hate her the most. Thats all they got. Go Ron Paul !!!
Huckabee is the true conservative. He knows Hilary better than any of the other candidates. He can win. However, he needs us to quit saying, "I like him, but..." All it takes is for us to say, "Yes, I'll vote for him, and tell others I'm doing so."
It's not a good sign when the Republicans have to work so hard to convince their base that they are conservative.
Is this the best of the best our nation has to offer??? Gee whiz..

I've been a staunch Ron Paul supporter but last night was the worst presentation I've seen from him. Hey Dr. Paul?? Whazzup?

On Iran? These guys are very scary. Guilianni says "..speak softly and carry a.." then thought "Oh keeeraap!! "Did I say that outloud??"
What a useless debate.  So little time saying what they WOULD do.  Most time just attacking the other guy.  And my gosh, they spent more time on Hillary than ANYTHING.  She must be really something for them to be so afraid of her!
What, was there a debate, a dinosaur debate?.

Who would watch?  Who did watch?  

Get a life....Kill your T.V.

Go for a walk.
Guiliani = WarMonger, Baby Killer!
Romney = WarMonger, Dictator!
Thompson = WarMonger, Dufus!
McCain = WarMonger, Tyrant!
Huckabee = WarMonger, Plaque Unleasher!
Tancredo = WarMonger, Another Dufus!
Hunter = WarMonger, Meglamaniac!
Paul = Non-Interventionist, Jeffersonian, Patriot!

I think the choice is clear!!!
cg, theyre' not afraid of her.

They are promoting her as the "inevitable nominee" so they can squash her in the general election.

The stupidity of dems is mind boggling.

The republican party is doing their version of  "Don't throw me into the briar patch!"  And dems are sucking it up like fools.

I cannot believe the dem party is prepared to throw another election down the toilet if they nominate Hillary.  

I am no longer a democrat.  Stupid stupid people.
Those republicans sure love wars and proved it last night.Except when it pertains to them and their families.Flip-flopping Mittens wants more and more troops when he is the president---except for his cowardly sons.I know several men and women that live in my neighborhood that would be better presidents than the sh-t that stood onstage last night.Did anybody notice that Mittens had a lock of hair unsprayed on his forhead?Trying to look casual instead of waxlike in perfection.How can these so called brave fighting warrior men be so afraid of one little woman?Hilarious
Hearing these morons scramble for "Who's more conservative" is like listening to an assembly of Ku Klux Klan members shout about who's more of a racist.

They babble on and on about Hillary... yet you mention the catistrophic failures of their own party over the last 7 years and they stand there in stunned silence.

The depths of mediocrity & stupidity within the republican party can not be fathomed.
Hearing these morons scramble for "Who's more conservative" is like listening to an assembly of Ku Klux Klan members shout about who's more of a racist.

They babble on and on about Hillary... yet you mention the catistrophic failures of their own party over the last 7 years and they stand there in stunned silence.

The depths of mediocrity & stupidity within the republican party can not be fathomed.
I am truely enjoying the fear coming out from the VALUED VOTERS who will sit out the election unless they are needed to beat a woman. These are the same people who support the war from their living room, we need boots on the ground, any of you supporters willing to enlist?
Spread the hate greed and envy!!!
Join the DNC today!!!!
oh lord, please don't let me be
Actually, I'd prefer to vote for Joe Biden, but dont' believe he'll get the nomination.  It doesn't really matter because there is not a democrat running who doesn't have a better platform than any republicans.  In fact, I can't see that republicans have any platform other than parroting everything has obviously failed so miserably for them for the last six years that many remaining republicans with a shred of intelligence, reputation and dignity are bailing out in droves rather than run again with this pack of kool aid drinking sheep.
And for the record, I don't think Hillary is capable of being afraid of ANYTHING, let alone a few mealy mouthed men who are such failures that their own party doesn't want to own them.
Go ahead and do a poll and ask any republican how many in their running field fills them w/ enthusiasm and then the same of democrats.
There's a lot more than Hillary out there for you 'strong men' to fear
I just sent my check to Ron Paul, The Federal Government refuses to enforce existing laws, now taxpayers will be paying for the Millions of Illegals Aliens.  
Friends-

I hope that you were able to see Senator Thompson's outstanding debate performance last night on Fox News. Fred set the agenda for the debate which largely focused on the question of who is the authentic conservative in the race. Fred delivered a strong and Presidential performance. He started fast and never slowed down. He made a very strong case that he is the authentic conservative in this race, establishing that his credentials go all the way back to his reading of Barry Goldwater's The Conscience of a Conservative. He also pointed out on a number of occasions where his opponents' records fall short.

Fred was strong in his insistence that the Democrats want to lead the country in the wrong direction and he was also strong in demanding a return to first principles for the GOP.

Perhaps the best summary of his performance is in Fred's own words, "... if we stick to our basic principles, we'll win next November, but we've got to remember our first principles.  The fact that what the Founding Fathers told us a long, long time ago, that our basic rights come from God not from government; that we have a system of divided government both state and local and state and federal level. We believe in free markets, we believe in free people. We believe in free enterprise and Americans who work hard and play by the rules, have a decent chance of living the American dreams just like I have and so many others have. ... Let's don't get diverted on to some single individual, whoever their nominee is. [Democrats are] going to lead us down the road to a comfortable mediocrity. and that's not the United States of America I grew up in."

Contribute to Fred: https://www.fred08.com/contribute.aspx?RefererID=c637caaa-315c-4b4c-9967-08d864cd0791
Ah Brad, Fred WHO? Fred is dead.
MarkTwine, Rochester, NY--You have way to much faith in the honesty of American Elections. Do you really think the two party establishment will let Ron Paul happen?
If they did, are you really sure you want a Libertarian President? Granted, he is right on the war and has the courage of his convictions but Libertarianism in it's purest form is, shall we say, problematic.
What a disgusting sight it was to see a bunch of middle-aged men ganging up on the only woman running for president. They just proved that they had nothing to offer voters and therefore the debate became "Bash Hillary Night".

Bunch of misogynist old coots!!!!! Keep up the good work, boys! We women are in the majority and we do vote, don't think that a lot of us will forget your denigrating comments (particularly those of that creep Giuliani).
Obviously Hillary Clinton won the debate - since these fools don't have anything good to offer America, they spend all their time and energy trashing her. I just wonder which one of these morons is going to dig up Reagans dead carcass and parade around on stage with it declaring themself the true conservative, when the only one with a clue is Ron Paul.
The GOP clearly is in disarray.

The debate in orlando shows:

a- that they have forgotten that they are a minority who need to be unified to win, and:

b- that the current GOP "leaders" have lost Reagan's idea that you spread conservatism by INCLUDING as many people as you can.

The current name-calling with the RINO overtones and vilification of opponents will only serve to isolate the GOP from the American people and further weaken the already frayed fabric of the American polity.

After two terms of Bush, the current crop of GOP Presidential contenders offer nothing for future.
Considering that some of the things that Hillary stepped into lately, I have a feeling even more bashing is still to come.

So far Hillary:

voted for the Iraq war before she voted against it
got caught up in a Chinese money scheme (several of them)
had a $5000 baby bond, then took that away from working mothers.
getting money from Chinese dishwashers who either do not have an address or do not exist.
and now she in favor of illegal aliens getting drivers licenses.

When Hillary decides on something, please let me know!
silly me---here I thought Bush was a republican and had a republican congress until 2006--------the american dream was stolen from us during their jihad against us.How do you have an american dream when your family is sent to an illegal war to die or be maimed?How do you live the american dream when your job is sent to china,mexico or india?How do you have an american dream when you are thrown out of your home for forclosure?How do you have an american dream when your government spies on your phone calls,sticks their noses into your bedrooms to make sure you are having the sexlife they choose for you,how do you live an american dream when you are forced to have a child fconcieved in rape or incest and when that child is born they condemn you for not having the money or job to raise it?where is the american dream when someone ends up brain dead and you either are unable to care for that person or do not the insurance to pay for nursing care?The american dream that these politicians talk about is pure bull s--t.The republican dream is to strip us all of beginning first the bare necessities then your home and life.It is time for the religious in this country to start paying their own taxes for their land and churches---faith based is just another swindle perpetrated on the taxpayers.
I am Ron Paul supporter  but i am trying to view things as  clearly  and fairly as I can.  It seems  like Dr Paul is doing much btter than the 2%  or so a few published polls have said  he  has.  It seems to me  judging on the amount of comments  on Paul that he  is much higher.
The debate proves to me that the 2 party system is a complete phony...Fact:  This country has been taken over by phonies and liars and corrupt bankers who control Mainstream Media. They operate through front groups like The Council on Foreign Relations....They don't want to lose their stranglehold and they see Ron Paul as a Major threat #1. Of course, they won't admit this publicly, but in their secret meetings they are plotting their next move. They must do something before they lose their power..... they thought they had this election neatly sewn up with the majority of candidates on both parties being C.F.R. puppets... they realize maybe they have overstacked the deck, now the deck looks phony and suspicious (it does) point this out to any person with half a brain and the C.F.R.. goose is cooked. Here is a brief description of the C.F.R. ..

The goals of the Council on Foreign Relations are best described by its very own members.

Bill Clinton's Georgetown mentor and CFR member Carroll Quigley says in his book Tragedy & Hope: "The Council on Foreign Relations is the American branch of a society which originated in England... (and) ...believes national boundaries should be obliterated and One World rule established."

Mr. Quigley is only different from Bill Clinton, George Bush and the rest of them in the fact that he thinks they shouldn't try to hide this any more.

These groups brag and laugh about how America's two-party system allows for both groups to be controlled at the highest level but still operate like bitter rivals.

As Quigley says, this gives the voters the chance to "throw the rascals out at any election without leading to any profound of extreme shifts in policy.".

Controlling Washington elite allowed private central banks to " dominate the political system... ...and economy of world as a whole" and implement a new system of "feudalist fashion" through "secret agreements". Although he believes the CFR's intentions should be more public, Quigley understands the average person doesn't understand feudalism or serfdom and will never read his book.

Allright, now that you know what the C.F.R. is up to here's a list of 2008 Presidential Candidates that are members of the Council on Foreign Relations:

Fred Thompson
Rudy Giuliani
John McCain
Mitt Romney
Jim Gilmore
Newt Gingrich

Hillary Clinton
Barack Obama
John Edwards
Joe Biden
Chris Dodd
Bill Richardson
Bunch of chicken shit chicken hawks scared shitless of a woman!
I enjoyed the debate. The republican party has some great choices this election.
I know you libs/dems/soc. don't want to admit that, but it is true.



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